Jesus ? "Not God" ? Savior ?
Comments
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus 1 John 4:15 LEB => Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God resides in him and he in God. 1 John 4:15 SBLGNT => ὃς ἐὰν ὁμολογήσῃ ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ἐστιν ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ, ὁ θεὸς ἐν αὐτῷ μένει καὶ αὐτὸς ἐν τῷ θεῷ.
Nice scripture to which I am in agreement with. However, it goes directly against the false teaching of Christendom that proclaims that Jesus is God. As you conitued to proclaim until recently. Maybe you finally realized that Jesus is OF and FROM (the God יהוה)
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Who if confesses that Jesus is The Son of/from The God, The God in him resides and he in The God. (my stilted literal translation includes the Greek definite article, which is often not shown in English translations)
Note: of/from expresses grammatical meaning for genitive/ablative spelling τοῦ θεοῦ (tou theou).
Again fine reasoning that I am in agreement with. The Note you stated brings up the scripture at (John 20:28). Notice Thomas never exlaimed You are God, but rather You are the Lord of me and the God of Me.
Does this mean Jesus is God? No, but rather Jesus is the same nature as proven by your own Quote below... The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. (1 Cor 15:45)
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus FYI: Greek word ὁμολογήσῃ translated "confesses" is literally "same speaks". Preposition ὁμο homo means same (kind, nature).
All the angels are OF and FROM יהוה. "Are they not all spirits for holy service, sent out to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation? (Hebrews 1:14) The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. (1 Cor 15:45) God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:24)
The Greek word pneuʹma is used here in the sense of a spirit person, or being. (See Glossary, “Spirit.”) The Scriptures show that God, the glorified Jesus, and the angels are spirits. (1Co 15:45; 2Co 3:17; Heb 1:14)
A spirit has a form of life that differs greatly from that of humans, and it is invisible to human eyes. Spirit beings have a body, “a spiritual one,” that is far superior to “a physical body.” (1Co 15:44; Joh 1:18) Although Bible writers speak of God as having a face, eyes, ears, hands, and so forth, such descriptions are figures of speech to help humans understand what God is like. The Scriptures clearly show that God has a personality. He also exists in a location beyond the physical realm; so Christ could speak of “going to the Father.” (Joh 16:28) At Heb 9:24, Christ is said to enter “into heaven itself, so that he . . . appears before God on our behalf.”
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 9 1 John 4:15 LEB => Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God resides in him and he in God.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 9 1 John 4:15 SBLGNT => ὃς ἐὰν ὁμολογήσῃ ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ἐστιν ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ, ὁ θεὸς ἐν αὐτῷ μένει καὶ αὐτὸς ἐν τῷ θεῷ.
@Brother Rando July 9 Nice scripture to which I am in agreement with.
What does the phrase "the Son of God" mean to you ?
@Brother Rando July 9 However, it goes directly against the false teaching of Christendom that proclaims that Jesus is God.
Curious about credible source(s) for Christendom proclaimations about Jesus ?
To me, JW.org (Watchtower Society) is uncredible due to many prophetic date failures, which proves the Watchtower Society is NOT the correct communication channel with Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God in heaven. The Watchtower Society is one of many broad ways that leads to destruction.
@Brother Rando July 9 As you conitued to proclaim until recently. Maybe you finally realized that Jesus is OF and FROM (the God יהוה)
Yes, יהוה Salvation, King Righteous (Melchizedek), freely choose to leave Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God's throne so He came from יהוה (while being a portion of יהוה that is different from angels in יהוה name) to take on human flesh so His Holy body could be righteously offered as a sin offering. Remember the last two Hebrew words in Jeremiah 23:6 could be translated: 'יהוה Yahweh Righteousness We' that shows me יהוה Father & יהוה Salvation share Holy יהוה name, which is The Name above every other name.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 9 Who if confesses that Jesus is The Son of/from The God, The God in him resides and he in The God. (my stilted literal translation includes the Greek definite article, which is often not shown in English translations)
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 9 Note: of/from expresses grammatical meaning for genitive/ablative spelling τοῦ θεοῦ (tou theou).
@Brother Rando July 9 Again fine reasoning that I am in agreement with. The Note you stated brings up the scripture at (John 20:28). Notice Thomas never exlaimed You are God, but rather You are the Lord of me and the God of Me.
John 20:17 LEB => Jesus said to her, “Do not touch me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.’ ”
John 20:17 SBLGNT => λέγει αὐτῇ Ἰησοῦς· Μή μου ἅπτου, οὔπω γὰρ ἀναβέβηκα πρὸς τὸν πατέρα· πορεύου δὲ πρὸς τοὺς ἀδελφούς μου καὶ εἰπὲ αὐτοῖς· Ἀναβαίνω πρὸς τὸν πατέρα μου καὶ πατέρα ὑμῶν καὶ θεόν μου καὶ θεὸν ὑμῶν.
John 20:17 => Say to her: Not of me to touch, not yet for I have ascended to The Father: go you but to the brothers of me and tell them: I am ascending to The Father of me and Father of you and God of me and God of you. (my stilted literal translation)
יהוה Salvation described יהוה Father as The Father of me that the Jewish audience understood as Jesus making Himself equal with God (different than an angel having יהוה name). John 5:1-18 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: אלהים as God) =>
After these things there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool called in Aramaic Bethzatha, which has five porticoes. In these were lying a large number of those who were sick, blind, lame, paralyzed. And a certain man was there who had been thirty-eight years in his sickness. Jesus, when he saw this one lying there and knew that he had been sick a long time already, said to him, “Do you want to become well?”
The one who was sick answered him, “Sir, I do not have anyone that, whenever the water is stirred up, could put me into the pool. But while I am coming, another goes down before me.”
Jesus said to him, “Get up! Pick up your mat and walk!”
And immediately the man became well and picked up his mat and began to walk. (Now it was the Sabbath on that day.)
So the Jews were saying to the one who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not permitted for you to pick up the mat!”
But he answered them, “The one who made me well — that one said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk!’ ”
So they asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Pick up your mat and walk?’ ”
But the one who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn while a crowd was in the place.
After these things Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “Look, you have become well! Sin no longer, lest something worse happen to you.”
The man went and reported to the Jews that Jesus was the one who made him well. And on account of this the Jews began to persecute Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath.
But he answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”
So on account of this the Jews were seeking even more to kill him, because he not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God his own Father, thus making himself equal with God.
Context for Hebrews 1:14 begins with Hebrews 1:1-14 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
Although אלהים God spoke long ago in many parts and in many ways to the fathers by the prophets, in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the world, who is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, sustaining all things by the word of power. When he had made purification for sins through him, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become by so much better than the angels, by as much as he has inherited a more excellent name than theirs.
For to which of the angels did he ever say,
“You are my son, today I have begotten you,”
and again,
“I will be his father, and he will be my son”?
And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,
“And let all the angels of אלהים God worship him.”
And concerning the angels he says,
“The one who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire,”
but concerning the Son,
“Your throne, O אלהים God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of righteous is the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; because of this אלהים God, your אלהים God, has anointed you
with the olive oil of joy more than your companions.
And,
“You, יהוה Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands;
they will perish, but you continue, and they will all become old like a garment, and like a robe you will roll them up,
and like a garment they will be changed; but you are the same, and your years will not run out.”
But to which of the angels has he ever said,
“Sit down at my right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”
Are they not all spirits engaged in special service, sent on assignment for the sake of those who are going to inherit salvation?
How is the Son superior to angels ? e.g. all angels of יהוה worship יהוה Salvation
Context for 1 Corinthians 15:45 is 1 Corinthians 15:35-58 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what sort of body do they come?” Foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And what you sow is not the body which it will become, but you sow the bare seed, whether perhaps of wheat or of some of the rest. But אלהים God gives to it a body just as he wishes, and to each one of the seeds its own body. Not all flesh is the same, but there is one flesh of human beings, and another flesh of animals, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish, and heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the glory of the heavenly bodies is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly bodies is of another kind. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars, for star differs from star in glory.
Thus also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruptibility. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. Thus also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. But the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. The first man is from the earth, made of earth; the second man is from heaven. As the one who is made of earth, so also are those who are made of earth, and as the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. And just as we have borne the image of the one who is made of earth, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.
But I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of אלהים God, nor can corruption inherit incorruptibility. Behold, I tell you a mystery: we will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For it is necessary for this perishable body to put on incorruptibility, and this mortal body to put on immortality. But whenever this perishable body puts on incorruptibility and this mortal body puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will take place:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.
Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?
Now the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to אלהים God, who gives us the victory through our יהוה Lord Jesus Christ! So then, my dear brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the יהוה Lord, because you know that your labor is not in vain in the יהוה Lord.
To me, believing Jesus is NOT God = Corruption, which cannot inherit the kingdom of אלהים God.
@Brother Rando July 9 A spirit has a form of life that differs greatly from that of humans, and it is invisible to human eyes.
Philippians 2:5-18 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of אלהים God, did not consider being equal with אלהים God something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross. Therefore also אלהים God exalted him and graciously granted him the name above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and of those on earth and of those under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is יהוה Lord, to the glory of אלהים God the Father. Therefore my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For the one at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure, is אלהים God. Do all things without grumbling and disputing, in order that you may become blameless and innocent, children of אלהים God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation, among whom you shine as stars in the world, holding fast to the word of life, for a source of pride to me in the day of Christ, that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. But even if I am being poured out as a drink offering on the sacrifice and service of your faith, I rejoice and rejoice with all of you. And in the same way also you rejoice and rejoice with me.
What did/does The Word, יהוה Salvation (Jesus) know about eternally existing in the spiritual form of אלהים God ?
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Yes, יהוה Salvation, King Righteous (Melchizedek), freely choose to leave Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God's throne so He came from יהוה (while being a portion of יהוה that is different from angels in יהוה name) to take on human flesh so His Holy body could be righteously offered as a sin offering. Remember the last two Hebrew words in Jeremiah 23:6 could be translated: 'יהוה Yahweh Righteousness We' that shows me יהוה Father & יהוה Salvation share Holy יהוה name, which is The Name above every other name.
יהוה Yahweh never means We, nor does it mean Them. It means "He Causes to Become" Jesus was given the Name and sent by יהוה "For this very reason, God יהוה exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the Name. (Philipians 2:9)
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Jeremiah 23:6 could be translated: 'יהוה Yahweh Righteousness We' that shows me יהוה Father & יהוה Salvation share Holy יהוה name, which is The Name above every other name.
No, it shows "I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, because My Name is in him." (Exodus 23:20-21)
Just like your forefathers that rejected JESUS as the Messiah... "I have come in the Name of My Father, but you do not receive me. If someone else came in his own name, you would receive that one." (John 5:43)
Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)
- “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.” (Matthew 17:5)
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@Brother Rando July 11 יהוה Yahweh never means We, nor does it mean Them. It means "He Causes to Become"
Deuteronomy 6:4 Eloheinu אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ is plural Elohim אלהים with plural pronoun suffix whose spelling does not indicate grammatical usage so translation options include: Nominative We, Genitive Our, 'of Us'
שְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהוָ֥ה׀ אֶחָֽד׃ Sh’ma Yisra’el! Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad ['Hear & Obey' Isra’el! Adonai 'Plural God We' Adonai unique]
Uniqueness (echad) of יהוה includes three (plural) distinct voices for expressing/experiencing One unified Holy Righteous יהוה God: The Will (יהוה Father), The Word (יהוה Son), Breath The Holy while Spirtually always being One unified God: who was, who is, who is to come.
Note: Jewish tradition at least a couple centuries before Jewish Rabbi יהוה Salvation took on human flesh (clothe a portion of יהוה) was saying Adonai (Lord) instead of יהוה in the provinces (outside of the Jewish temple).
Searching my Logos library for phrase "He causes to become" found seven results, of which only two are applicable for יהוה meaning with the oldest one from 1892:
Heb. Jehovah Elohim. The correct pronunciation of J. is prob. Yahweh; formed of the 3 sing. mas. imperf. Hiphil, of hawah, “to be,” or rather “to become,” “to come to pass;” and therefore meaning, “He causes to become,” “He brings to pass;” “The Fulfiller.” This explanation
(1.) altogether removes the difficulty from Ex. 6, since God was known to Ab., Is., and Ja. rather as Promiser than as Fulfiller;
(2.) puts a most pertinent force into the name as Israel’s encouragement to leave Eg. for Canaan, Ex. 3;
(3.) invests innumerable passages with a most striking beauty, e.g., Ps. 23:1, “J.—the Fulfiller—is my Shepherd: I shall not want;”
(4.) provides for the occasional application of the name to the Messiah, as in Is. 40:10, 11, cf. John 10, Is. 6 cf. John 12:41; and
(5.) by bringing out the gracious covenant power of this name, furnishes some clue to the reason (or feeling) leading to its omission in some cases (as in ch. 3:1–5; Job 31:37; Ps. 19:1–6; 119:15) and its insertion in others (Gen. 2 and fol., Job. 1–2, 38–42; Ps. 19:7–14).
Joseph S. Exell and Thomas H. Leale, Genesis, The Preacher’s Complete Homiletic Commentary (New York; London; Toronto: Funk & Wagnalls Company, 1892), 39.
@Brother Rando July 11 Jesus was given the Name and sent by יהוה "For this very reason, God יהוה exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the Name. (Philipians 2:9)
Philippians 2:9 context is Philippians 2:5-18 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of אלהים God, did not consider being equal with אלהים God something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross. Therefore also אלהים God exalted him and graciously granted him the name above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and of those on earth and of those under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is יהוה Lord, to the glory of אלהים God the Father. Therefore my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For the one at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure, is אלהים God. Do all things without grumbling and disputing, in order that you may become blameless and innocent, children of אלהים God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation, among whom you shine as stars in the world, holding fast to the word of life, for a source of pride to me in the day of Christ, that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. But even if I am being poured out as a drink offering on the sacrifice and service of your faith, I rejoice and rejoice with all of you. And in the same way also you rejoice and rejoice with me.
What did/does The Word, יהוה Salvation (Jesus) know about eternally existing in the spiritual form of אלהים God ?
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus שְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהוָ֥ה׀ אֶחָֽד׃ Sh’ma Yisra’el! Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad ['Hear & Obey' Isra’el! Adonai 'Plural God We' Adonai unique]
What is written is not you are claiming. 'Plural God We' is your misinterpretation. There are no Gods but rather God, god, or gods in pluiral. Elohim, Adonai are not names but titles that can be assigned to angels and man.
1 plural in number.
a. rulers, judges, either as divine representatives at sacred places or as reflecting divine majesty and power: האלהים Exodus 21:6 (Onk ᵑ6, but τὸ κριτήριον τοῦ Θεοῦ ᵐ5) Exodus 22:7; Exodus 22:8; אלהים Exodus 22:8; Exodus 22:27 (ᵑ7 Ra AE Ew RVm; but gods, ᵐ5 Josephus Philo AV; God, Di RV; all Covt. code of E) compare 1 Samuel 2:25 see Dr.; Judges 5:8 (Ew, but gods ᵐ5; God ᵑ6 BarHebr.; יהוה ᵑ9 Be) Psalm 82:1; Psalm 82:6 (De Ew Pe; but angels Bl Hup) Psalm 138:1 (ᵑ6 ᵑ7 Rab Ki De; but angels ᵐ5 Calv; God, Ew; gods, Hup Pe Che).
b. divine ones, superhuman beings including God and angels Psalm 8:6 (De Che Br; but angels ᵐ5 ᵑ6 ᵑ7 Ew; God, RV and most moderns) Genesis 1:27 (if with Philo ᵑ7 Jerome De Che we interpret נעשה as God's consultation with angels; compare Job 38:7).
c. angels Psalm Job 97:7 (ᵐ5 ᵑ6 Calv; but gods, Hup De Pe Che); compare בני (ה)אלהים = (the) sons of God, or sons of gods = angels Job 1:6; Job 2:1; Job 38:7; Genesis 6:2,4 (J; so ᵐ5 Books of Enoch & Jubilees Philo Jude Jude 1:6 2Peter 2:4 JosAnt. i. 3. 1, most ancient fathers and modern critics; against usage are sons of princes, mighty men, Onk and Rab.; sons of God, the pious, Theod Chrys Jerome Augustine Luther Calv Hengst; ᵐ5L read οἱ υιὁὶ τοῦ Θεοῦ), compare בני אלים.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 11 שְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהוָ֥ה׀ אֶחָֽד׃ Sh’ma Yisra’el! Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad ['Hear & Obey' Isra’el! Adonai 'Plural God We' Adonai unique]
@Brother Rando July 11 What is written is not you are claiming. 'Plural God We' is your misinterpretation. There are no Gods but rather God, god, or gods in pluiral. Elohim, Adonai are not names but titles that can be assigned to angels and man.
Thank you for expressing your faith belief. My faith believes one unique Holy God correctly inspired original language words, which need Holy God's help to spiritually understand per Psalm 119:18 (larger context of eight verse beginning with Gimel letter is Psalm 119:17-24). Remember Adonai is a Jewish spoken substitute for Holy name יהוה (so your title description expresses a faith belief that differs from jewish heritage).
What scripture shows elohim describing angels ?
Searching the Lexham English Bible for phrase "the sons of God" finds seven verses: (includes Old Testamen verses in July 11 c. angels)
- the sons of God (elohim) - Genesis 6:2, Genesis 6:4, Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7
- the sons of God (Israel) - Deuteronomy 32:8
- the sons of God (elohe) - Psalm 89:6
FYI: Greek septuagint includes Enoch, which has angel names for "the sons of God" in Genesis 6, whose offspring were giants.
Where are angels in Psalm 8:title-9 LEB =>
For the music director, on the Gittith. A psalm of David. יהוה Yahweh, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth, who put your splendor above the heavens. From the mouth of children and infants you have founded strength on account of your enemies, to silence the enemy and the avenger. When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars which you set in place — what is a human being that you think of him? and a child of humankind that you care for him? And you made him a little lower than heavenly beings, and with glory and with majesty you crowned him. You make him over the works of your hands; all things you have placed under his feet: sheep and cattle, all of them, and also the wild animals of the field, the birds of the sky and the fish of the sea, everything that passes along the paths of seas. יהוה Yahweh, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all of the earth!
To me, "a child of humankind that you care for him? And you made him a little lower than heavenly beings, and with glory and with majesty you crowned him." describes יהוה Salvation (Jesus), who had a portion of יהוה Lord אלהים God's spirit dwelling in human flesh.
Philippians 2:5-18 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of אלהים God, did not consider being equal with אלהים God something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross. Therefore also אלהים God exalted him and graciously granted him the name above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and of those on earth and of those under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is יהוה Lord, to the glory of אלהים God the Father. Therefore my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For the one at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure, is אלהים God. Do all things without grumbling and disputing, in order that you may become blameless and innocent, children of אלהים God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation, among whom you shine as stars in the world, holding fast to the word of life, for a source of pride to me in the day of Christ, that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. But even if I am being poured out as a drink offering on the sacrifice and service of your faith, I rejoice and rejoice with all of you. And in the same way also you rejoice and rejoice with me.
What did/does The Word, יהוה Salvation (Jesus) know about eternally existing in the spiritual form of אלהים God ?
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus What scripture shows elohim describing angels ?
Searching the Lexham English Bible for phrase "the sons of God" finds seven verses: (includes Old Testamen verses in July 11 c. angels)
the sons of God (elohim) - , , , ,
the sons of God (Israel) -
the sons of God (elohe) -
So now you SEE that sons are speaking about angels.
FYI: Greek septuagint includes Enoch, which has angel names for "the sons of God" in Genesis 6, whose offspring were giants.
The angels were called the sons of Elohim, But the Nephilim are offspring or sons of gods. The plural form of Elohim (gods). Those (gods) were disobedient and were rounded up and put in spiritual darkness.
Ephesians 5:6
Let no man deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus the sons of God (elohe) -
Who among the sons of God is like Jehovah? (Psalm 89:6) Since "sons" refer to angels which are spirit creatures in this scripture it can also read Who among the angels of God is like Jehovah יהוה?
Answer: Michael the Archangel
Michael means 'one like God' or godlike, or even one like יהוה. Even one like Elohim which makes him an elohim (a god) among the gods.
Archangel means Chief Messenger, Chief Represenative, Chief Elohim, His name is also The Word of God.
and he is clothed with an outer garment stained with blood, and he is called by the name The Word of God. (Revelation 19:13)
who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God. (Philipipians 2:6)
9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus What did/does The Word, יהוה Salvation (Jesus) know about eternally existing in the spiritual form of אלהים God ?
Jesus wasn't always eternal. That is why he called Firstborn of All Creation. (Proverbs 8:22) But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.” (Hebrews 1:6)
So, too, the Christ did not glorify himselfe by becoming a high priest, but was glorified by the One who said to him: “You are my son; today I have become your father.”f 6 As he also says in another place, “You are a priest forever in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.”g7 During his life on earth,* Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears,h to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.i 9 And after he had been made perfect,j he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him,k (Philippians 2)
Since we have established that sons are angels, they also retain the title elohim is plural which is rendered (gods) so verses 8 and 9 can read 8 Although he was a god, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.i 9 And after he had been made perfect,j he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him,k
32 Jesus replied to them: “I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?” 33 The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy;d for you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” (John 10)
34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’?e 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified— 36 do you say to me* whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
'gods' those against whom the word of God came... ‘I am God’s Son’
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
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Sons of Elohim are NOT Elohim. What scripture shows Elohim describing angels ?
@Brother Rando July 14 Who among the sons of God is like Jehovah? (Psalm 89:6) Since "sons" refer to angels which are spirit creatures in this scripture it can also read Who among the angels of God is like Jehovah יהוה?
Psalm 89:6-7 context is Psalm 89:1-18 LEB =>
I will sing forever of יהוה Yahweh’s acts of loyal love.
From generation to generation I will make known your faithfulness with my mouth.
For I say, “Forever your loyal love is built up.
The heavens you have established with your faithfulness in them.”
“I made a covenant with my chosen one; I swore an oath to David my servant:
‘I will establish your descendants forever, and I will build up your throne from generation to generation.’ ” Selah
And so the heavens will praise your wonderful deed, O יהוה Yahweh, even your faithfulness, in the assembly of the holy ones.
For who in the sky is equal to יהוה Yahweh?
Who is like יהוה Yahweh among the sons of God, a God feared greatly in the council of the holy ones, and awesome above all surrounding him?
O יהוה Yahweh God of hosts,
who is mighty like you, O Yah, with your faithfulness surrounding you?
You are ruling the surging of the sea. When its waves rise, you yourself still them.
You yourself crushed Rahab like one who is slain; you scattered your enemies with your strong arm.
The heavens are yours, the earth yours as well, the world with its fullness, because you founded them.
North and south, you created them; Tabor and Hermon shout joyfully over your name.
You have a mighty arm; Your hand is strong; your right hand reaches high.
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne.
Loyal love and faithfulness come before your face.
Blessed are the people who know the joyful shout; O יהוה Yahweh, they walk about in the light of your countenance.
In your name they rejoice all the day, and in your righteousness they rise up.
For you are the glory of their strength, and by your favor our horn rises up,
because our shield belongs to יהוה Yahweh, and our king to the Holy One of Israel.
Holy One of God is in Mark 1:22-28 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: אלהים as God) =>
And they were amazed at his teaching, because he was teaching them like one who had authority, and not like the scribes. And so then there was a man in their synagogue with an unclean spirit, and he cried out, saying, “Leave us alone, Jesus the Nazarene! Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are — the Holy One of אלהים God!”
And Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be silent, and come out of him!”
And after convulsing him and crying out with a loud voice, the unclean spirit came out of him. And they were all amazed, so that they began to discuss with one another, saying, “What is this? A new teaching with authority! He even commands the unclean spirits and they obey him.” And the report about him then went out everywhere in the whole surrounding region of Galilee.
@Brother Rando July 14 Answer: Michael the Archangel
Psalm 89:6 is followed by 89:7 describing יהוה Yahweh as awesome above all surrounding him. Hence, the answer for Psalm 89:6 "Who is like יהוה Yahweh among the sons of God ... ?" is no creature made by God. An angel is simply NOT God.
@Brother Rando July 14 Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience.
We agree the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 13 What did/does The Word, יהוה Salvation (Jesus) know about eternally existing in the spiritual form of אלהים God ?
@Brother Rando July 14 Jesus wasn't always eternal.
Thank you for expressing Watchtower (JW.org) faith belief as your own, which simply disagrees with scripture. Noticed your scripture snippets of Philippians chapter 2 leave out Christ (Messiah) Jesus (יהוה Salvation) existing in the form of אלהים God in Philippians 2:5-18 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of אלהים God, did not consider being equal with אלהים God something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross. Therefore also אלהים God exalted him and graciously granted him the name above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and of those on earth and of those under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is יהוה Lord, to the glory of אלהים God the Father. Therefore my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For the one at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure, is אלהים God. Do all things without grumbling and disputing, in order that you may become blameless and innocent, children of אלהים God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation, among whom you shine as stars in the world, holding fast to the word of life, for a source of pride to me in the day of Christ, that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. But even if I am being poured out as a drink offering on the sacrifice and service of your faith, I rejoice and rejoice with all of you. And in the same way also you rejoice and rejoice with me.
An angel can have the name of יהוה in the angel (unable to forgive sins), but an angel does NOT exist in the eternal form of אלהים God.
My faith believes יהוה WIll (Father) had יהוה Word (Son) speak so יהוה Breath The Holy created. All of unique יהוה אלהים God created everything, beginning with wisdom.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus My faith believes יהוה WIll (Father) had יהוה Word (Son) speak so יהוה Breath The Holy created. All of unique יהוה אלהים God created everything, beginning with wisdom.
At least you moving away from your 3 in 1 theology. Angels and Sons are the same thing spirit beings and can be rendered as 'gods'. the plural form of elohim.
When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause? (Job 38:7)
Other translations:
while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?
as the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?
when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
while the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus What scripture shows Elohim describing angels ?
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
The Hebrew Word for "gods" here is in fact elohim. אֱלֹהִ֣ים
"You made him a little lower than godlike ones מֵאֱלֹהִ֑ים , And you crowned him with glory and splendor." (Pslam 8:5)
Other translations:
For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor.
Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty!
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Sons of Elohim are NOT Elohim. What scripture shows Elohim (NOT 'sons of Elohim') describing angels ?
יהוה Salvation (Jesus) provided truthful explanation about Psalm 82 " If he called them ‘gods’ to whom the word of God came" in John 10:22-42 LEB =>
Then the feast of the Dedication took place in Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the Portico of Solomon. So the Jews surrounded him and began to say to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly!”
Jesus answered them, “I told you and you do not believe! The deeds that I do in the name of my Father, these testify about me. But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep! My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish forever, and no one will seize them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can seize them from the Father’s hand. The Father and I are one.”
Then the Jews picked up stones again so that they could stone him.
Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good deeds from the Father. For which one of them are you going to stone me?”
The Jews answered him, “We are not going to stone you concerning a good deed, but concerning blasphemy, and because you, although you are a man, make yourself to be God!”
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? If he called them ‘gods’ to whom the word of God came — and the scripture cannot be broken — do you say about he whom the Father set apart and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? If I do not do the deeds of my Father, do not believe me. But if I am doing them, even if you do not believe me, believe the deeds, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
So they were seeking again to seize him, and he departed out of their hand.
And he went away again on the other side of the Jordan, to the place where John was baptizing at an earlier time, and he stayed there. And many came to him and began to say, “John performed no sign, but everything John said about this man was true!” And many believed in him there.
My faith believes יהוה WIll (Father) had יהוה Word (Son) speak so יהוה Breath The Holy created. All of unique יהוה אלהים God created everything, beginning with wisdom.
@Brother Rando July 15 At least you moving away from your 3 in 1 theology.
Puzzling movement comment, which does not describe me.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus יהוה Salvation (Jesus) provided truthful explanation about Psalm 82 " If he called them ‘gods’ to whom the word of God came" in John 10:22-42 LEB =>
You well know that the plural for elohim (gods) is not in the Greek. The Greek rendering is Θεοί (Theoi) is a feminine noun. It comes from the feminine noun (a god) that is in singular.
Strong's Concordance
theos: God, a god
Original Word: θεός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: theos
Phonetic Spelling: (theh'-os)
Definition: God, a god
Usage: (a) God, (b) a god, generally.
One can make the connection to elohim that is expressed in the feminine noun (gods) in reference to angels but also to divine judges. Like in the case of Moses..... Moses is a god. Even though the letter (a) is not in Hebrew. (Exodus 7:1) Other transaltion also used words (like) and (as) which are also absent from the Hebrew.
Same thing with Jesus. "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." (John 1:1)
- "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was like god." (John 1:1)
- "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was as god." (John 1:1)
- "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was godlike." (John 1:1)
- "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine." (John 1:1)
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Sons of Elohim are NOT Elohim. What scripture shows Elohim (NOT 'sons of Elohim') describing angels ?
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 15 יהוה Salvation (Jesus) provided truthful explanation about Psalm 82 " If he called them ‘gods’ to whom the word of God came" in John 10:22-42 LEB =>
@Brother Rando July 16 You well know that the plural for elohim (gods) is not in the Greek. The Greek rendering is Θεοί (Theoi) is a feminine noun. It comes from the feminine noun (a god) that is in singular.
Thank you for expressing your faith belief about θεός being a feminine noun (truly θεός thĕŏs is masculine). The feminine noun is θεά thĕa
2299. θεά thĕa, theh-ah´; fem. of 2316; a female deity:—goddess.
James Strong, A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2009), 36.
2316. θεός thĕŏs, theh´-os; of uncert. affin.; a deity, espec. (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; fig. a magistrate; by Heb. very:—× exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].
James Strong, A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2009), 36.
Θεοί ( Theoi ) is noun, nominative, plural, masculine (for plural elohim in Psalm 82).
Thayer's lexicon entry about θεός (masculine noun) includes the one feminine use being in Acts 19:37 (goddess reference for Artemis of the Ephesians, which is notably missing from @Brother Rando Strong's Concordance summary)
θεός, -οῦ, ὁ and ἡ, voc. θεέ, once in the N. T., Mt. 27:46; besides in Deut. 3:24; Judg. [16:28;] 21:3; [2 S. 7:25; Is. 38:20]; Sir. 23:4; Sap. 9:1; 3 Macc. 6:3; 4 Macc. 6:27; Act. Thom. 44 sq. 57; Eus. h. e. 2, 23, 16; [5, 20, 7; vit. Const. 2, 55, 1. 59]; cf. W. § 8, 2 c.; [B. 12 (11)]; ([on the eight or more proposed derivations see Vaniček p. 386, who follows Curtius (after Döderlein) p. 513 sqq. in connecting it with a root meaning to supplicate, implore; hence the implored; per contra cf. Max Müller, Chips etc. iv. 227 sq.; L. and S. s. v. fin.]); [fr. Hom. down]; Sept. for אֱל, אֱלֹהִים and יְהוָה; a god, a goddess;
1. a general appellation of deities or divinities: Acts 28:6; 1 Co. 8:4; 2 Th. 2:4; once ἡ θεός, Acts 19:37 G L T Tr WH; θεοῦ φωνὴ καὶ οὐκ ἀνθρώπου, Acts 12:22; ἄνθρωπος ὢν ποιεῖς σεαυτὸν θεόν, Jn. 10:33; plur., of the gods of the Gentiles: Acts 14:11; 19:26; λεγόμενοι θεοί, 1 Co. 8:5; οἱ φύσει μὴ ὄντες θεοί, Gal. 4:8; τοῦ θεοῦ Ῥεφάν [q. v.], Acts 7:43; of angels: εἰσὶ θεοὶ πολλοί, 1 Co. 8:5 (on which cf. Philo de somn. i. § 39 ὁ μὲν ἀληθείᾳ θεὸς εἷς ἐστιν, οἱ δʼ ἐν καταχρήσει λεγόμενοι πλείους). [On the use of the sing. θεός (and Lat. deus) as a generic term by (later) heathen writ., see Norton, Genuinen. of the Gosp. 2d ed. iii. addit. note D; cf. Dr. Ezra Abbot in Chris. Exam. for Nov. 1848, p. 389 sqq.; Huidekoper, Judaism at Rome, ch. i. § ii.; see Bib. Sacr. for July 1856, p. 666 sq., and for addit. exx. Nägelsbach, Homer. Theol. p. 129; also his Nachhomerische Theol. p. 139 sq.; Stephanus, Thes. s. v.; and reff. (by Prof. Abbot) in Journ. Soc. Bibl. Lit. and Exeg. i. p. 120 note.] For θεοί in application to (deceased) Christians, see Theoph. ad Antol. 2, 27; Hippol. refut. omn. haer. 10, 34; Iren. haer. 3, 6, 1 fin.; 4, 1, 1; 4, 38, 4; cf. esp. Harnack, Dogmengesch. i. p. 82 note.
2. Whether Christ is called God must be determined from Jn. 1:1; 20:28; 1 Jn. 5:20; Ro. 9:5; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:8 sq., etc.; the matter is still in dispute among theologians; cf. Grimm, Institutio theologiae dogmaticae, ed. 2, p. 228 sqq. [and the discussion (on Ro. 9:5) by Professors Dwight and Abbot in Journ. Soc. Bib. Lit. etc. u. s., esp. pp. 42 sqq. 113 sqq.]. On patristic usage cf. Harnack, Dogmengesch. i. pp. 131, 695; Bp. Lghtft. Ignat. vol. ii. p. 26.
3. spoken of the only and true God: with the article, Mt. 3:9; Mk. 13:19; Lk. 2:13; Acts 2:11, and very often; with prepositions: ἐκ τοῦ θ. Jn. 8:42, 47 and often in John’s writ.; ὑπὸ τοῦ θ. Lk. 1:26 [T Tr WH ἀπό]; Acts 26:6; παρὰ τοῦ θ. Jn. 8:40; 9:16 [L T Tr WH here om. art.]: παρὰ τῷ θ. Ro. 2:13 [Tr txt. om. and L WH Tr mrg. br. the art.]; 9:14; ἐν τῷ θ. Col. 3:3; ἐπὶ τῷ θ. Lk. 1:47; εἰς τὸν θ. Acts 24:15 [Tdf. πρός]; ἐπὶ τὸν θ. Acts 15:19: 26:18, 20; πρὸς τὸν θ. Jn. 1:2; Acts 24 [15 Tdf.], 16, and many other exx. without the article: Mt. 6:24; Lk. 3:2; 20:38; Ro. 8:8, 33; 2 Co. 1:21; 5:19: 6:7; 1 Th. 2:5, etc.; with prepositions: ἀπὸ θεοῦ, Jn. 3:2; 16:30; Ro. 13:1 [L T Tr WH ὑπό]; παρὰ θεοῦ, Jn. 1:6; ἐκ θεοῦ, Acts 5:39; 2 Co. 5:1; Phil. 3:9; παρὰ θεῷ, 2 Th. 1:6; 1 Pet. 2:4; κατὰ θεόν, Ro. 8:27; 2 Co. 7:9 sq.; cf. W. § 19 s. v. ὁ θεός τινος (gen. of pers.), the (guardian) God of any one, blessing and protecting him: Mt. 22:32; Mk. 12:26 sq. [29 WH mrg. (see below)]; Lk. 20:37; Jn. 20:17; Acts 3:13; 13:17; 2 Co. 6:16; Heb. 11:16; Rev. 21:3 [without ὁ; but G T Tr WH txt. om. the phrase]; ὁ θεός μου, i. q. οὗ εἰμί, ᾧ καὶ λατρεύω (Acts 27:23): Ro. 1:8; 1 Co. 1:4 [Tr mrg. br. the gen.]; 2 Co. 12:21; Phil. 1:3; 4:19; Philem. 4; κύριος ὁ θεός σου, ἡμῶν, ὑμῶν, αὐτῶν (in imit. of Hebr. יְהוהָ אֱלֹהֶיךָ, י״ אֱלֹהֵינוּ, י״ אֱלֹהֵיכֶם, י״ אֱלֹהֵיהֶם): Mt. 4:7; 22:37; Mk. 12:29 [see above]; Lk. 4:8, 12; 10:27; Acts 2:39; cf. Thilo, Cod. apocr. Nov. Test. p. 169; [and Bp. Lghtft. as quoted s. v. κύριος, c. a. init.]; ὁ θεὸς κ. πατὴρ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ: Ro. 15:6; 2 Co. 1:3; 11:31 [L T Tr WH om. ἡμ. and Χρ.]; Eph. 1:3; Col. 1:3 [L WH om. καί]; 1 Pet. 1:3; in which combination of words the gen. depends on ὁ θεός as well as on πατήρ, cf. Fritzsche on Rom. 3. p. 232 sq.; [Oltramare on Ro. l. c.; Bp. Lghtft. on Gal. 1:4; but some would restrict it to the latter; cf. e.g. Meyer on Ro. l. c., Eph. l. c.; Ellic. on Gal. l. c., Eph. l. c.]; ὁ θεὸς τοῦ κυρ. ἡμ. Ἰησ. Χρ. Eph. 1:17; ὁ θεὸς κ. πατὴρ ἡμῶν, Gal. 1:4; Phil. 4:20; 1 Th. 1:3; 3:11, 13; θεὸς ὁ πατήρ, 1 Co. 8:6; ὁ θεὸς κ. πατήρ, 1 Co. 15:24; Eph. 5:20; Jas. 1:27; 3:9 [Rec.; al. κύριος κ. π.]; ἀπὸ θεοῦ πατρὸς ἡμῶν, Ro. 1:7; 1 Co. 1:3; 2 Co. 1:2; Eph. 1:2; Phil. 1:2; Col. 1:2; 2 Th. 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:2 [Rec., al. om. ἡμ.]; Philem. 3; [ὁ θεὸς πατήρ, Col. 3:17 LT Tr WH (cf. Bp. Lghtft. ad loc.); elsewhere without the art. as] θεοῦ πατρός (in which phrase the two words have blended as it were into one, equiv. to a prop. name, Germ. Gottvater [A. V. God the Father]): Phil. 2:11; 1 Pet. 1:2; ἀπὸ θεοῦ πατρός, Gal. 1:3; Eph. 6:23; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; παρὰ θεοῦ πατρός, 2 Pet. 1:17; 2 Jn. 3; cf. Wieseler, Com. üb. d. Brief a.d. Galat. p. 10 sqq. ὁ θεός w. gen. of the thing of which God is the author [cf. W. § 30, 1]: τῆς ὑπομονῆς κ. τῆς παρακλήσεως, Ro. 15:5; τῆς ἐλπίδος, ib. 13; τῆς ειρήνης, 33; 1 Th. 5:23; τῆς παρακλήσεως, 2 Co. 1:3. τὰ τοῦ θεοῦ, the things of God, i.e.
α. his counsels, 1 Co. 2:11.
β. his interests, Mt. 16:23; Mk. 8:33.
γ. things due to God, Mt. 22:21; Mk. 12:17; Lk. 20:25. τὰ πρὸς τὸν θεόν, things respecting, pertaining to, God,—contextually i. q. the sacrificial business of the priest, Ro. 15:17; Heb. 2:17; 5:1; cf. Xen. rep. Lac. 13, 11; Fritzsche on Rom. 3. p. 262 sq. Nom. ὁ θεός for the voc.: Mk. 15:34; Lk. 18:11, 13; Jn. 20:28; Acts 4:24 [R G; Heb. 1:8?]; 10:7; cf. W. § 29, 2; [B. 140 (123)]. τῷ θοῷ, God being judge [cf. W. § 31, 4 a.; 248 (232 sq.); B. § 133, 14]: after δυνατός, 2 Co. 10:4; after ἀστεῖος, Acts 7:20, (after ἄμεμπτος, Sap. 10:5; after μέγας, Jon. 3:3; see ἀστεῖος, 2). For the expressions ἄνθρωπος θεοῦ, δύναμις θεοῦ, υἱὸς θεοῦ, etc., θεὸς τῆς ἐλπίδος etc., ὁ ζῶν θεός etc., see under ἄνθρωπος 6, δύναμις a., υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ, ἐλπίς 2, ζάω Ι, ι., etc. On ὁ θεός and θεός, esp. in the writings of John, see Westcott, Epp. of St. John, p. 165 sqq.
4. θεός is used of whatever can in any respect be likened to God, or resembles him in any way: Hebraistically i. q. God’s representative or vicegerent, of magistrates and judges, Jn. 10:34 sq. after Ps. 81 (82):6, (of the wise man, Philo de mut. nom. § 22; quod omn. prob. lib. § 7; [ὁ σοφὸς λέγεται θεὸς τοῦ ἄφρονος … θεὸς πρὸς φαντασίαν κ. δόκησιν, quod det. pot. insid. § 44]; πατὴρ κ. μήτηρ ἐμφανεῖς εἰσι θεοὶ, μιμουμενοι τὸν ἀγέννητον ἐν τῷ ζωοπλαστεῖν, de decal. § 23; ὠνομάσθη (i.e. Moses) ὅλου τοῦ ἔθνους θεὸς κ. βασιλεύς, de vita Moys. i. § 28; [de migr. Abr. § 15; de alleg. leg. i. § 13]); of the devil, ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου (see αἰών, 3), 2 Co. 4:4; the pers. or thing to which one is wholly devoted, for which alone he lives, e.g. ἡ κοιλία, Phil. 3:19.
Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm’s Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (New York: Harper & Brothers., 1889), 287–288.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Thayer's lexicon entry about θεός (masculine noun) includes the one feminine use being in Acts 19:37 (goddess reference for Artemis of the Ephesians, which is notably missing from @Brother Rando Strong's Concordance summary)
- Paul arrives in Ephesus; some disciples rebaptized, now in Jesus’ name (19:1-7)
- Paul’s teaching activities in Ephesus (19:8-10)
- Jehovah’s word prevails despite demonism in Ephesus (19:11-20)
For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him;i and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him." (1 Cor 8:5-6)
Watchtower Detailed Explaination 1 Corinthians 8:5
many “gods”: The Christian Greek Scriptures use the same Greek term for God, the·osʹ (in singular, plural, masculine, and feminine), whether referring to pagan gods and goddesses or to the true God. (Ac 7:40; 14:11; 19:27, 37; Php 3:19) However, Jehovah is the almighty God, “one God, the Father.” (1Co 8:6) Jehovah distinguishes himself from false gods by revealing his personal name יהוה He rightfully requires exclusive devotion.—Ex 20:4, 5.
gods are applied to angels, where true or false, same with men, especialy in the position of rulership (ie...... the "sons" of the true God, chose wives for themselves are false gods in the days of Noah)
Today, Jehovah's Word prevails over the 3 in 1 demonism of the trinity since Jehovah alone is the one true God. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 1:3)
The 'gods' of the demonic trinity have no names in the triniy doctrine. Nor will poster reveal which trinity doctrine is his faith. Seems poster beleives in several hybrids of trinities demonism to try to evade detection. Listing none of them.
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Sons of Elohim are NOT Elohim. What scripture shows Elohim (NOT 'sons of Elohim') describing angels ?
Noticed Watchtower detailed explanation asserts "gods are applied to angels," without any scripture support.
Acts 19:1-10 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
And it happened that while Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the inland regions and came to Ephesus and found some disciples. And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
And they said to him, “But we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit!”
And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?”
And they said, “Into the baptism of John.”
And Paul said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people that they should believe in the one who was to come after him — that is, in Jesus.”
And when they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the יהוה Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them and they began to speak in tongues and to prophesy. (Now the total number of men was about twelve.)
So he entered into the synagogue and was speaking boldly for three months, discussing and attempting to convince them concerning the kingdom of אלהים God. But when some became hardened and were disobedient, reviling the Way before the congregation, he departed from them and took away the disciples, leading discussions every day in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. And this took place for two years, so that all who lived in Asia heard the word of the יהוה Lord, both Jews and Greeks.
To me, Watchtower (JW.org) beliefs about Jesus (being created) currently revile the Way (JW.org truly does NOT know יהוה Lord Jesus).
Many failed prophetic predictions prove the Watchtower (JW.org) is NOT the correct communication channel for יהוה Lord אלהים God.
Acts 19:11-20 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
And אלהים God was performing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that even handkerchiefs or work aprons that had touched his skin were carried away to those who were sick, and their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them. But some itinerant Jewish exorcists also attempted to pronounce the name of the יהוה Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “I adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches!”
(Now seven sons of a certain Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.)
But the evil spirit answered and said to them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I am acquainted with, but who are you?”
And the man who had the evil spirit leaped on them, subdued all of them, and prevailed against them, so that they ran away from that house naked and wounded. And this became known to all who lived in Ephesus, both Jews and Greeks, and fear fell upon them all, and the name of the יהוה Lord Jesus was exalted. And many of those who had believed came, confessing and disclosing their practices, and many of those who practiced magic brought together their books and burned them up in the sight of everyone. And they counted up their value and found it was fifty thousand silver coins. In this way the word of the יהוה Lord was growing in power and was prevailing.
Context for 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 includes food sacrificed to idols in 1 Corinthians 8:1-13 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
Now concerning food sacrificed to idols, we know that “we all have knowledge.” Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone thinks he knows anything, he has not yet known as it is necessary to know. But if anyone loves אלהים God, this one is known by him.
Therefore, concerning the eating of food sacrificed to idols, we know that “an idol is nothing in the world” and that “there is no אלהים God except one.”
For even if after all there are so-called אלהים gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many אלהים gods and many lords,
yet to us there is one אלהים God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him,
and there is one יהוה Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him.
But this knowledge is not in everyone. But some, being accustomed until now to the idol, eat this food as food sacrificed to idols, and their conscience, because it is weak, is defiled. But food does not bring us close to אלהים God. For neither if we eat do we have more, nor if we do not eat do we lack. But watch out lest somehow this right of yours becomes a cause for stumbling to the weak. For if someone should see you who has knowledge reclining for a meal in an idol’s temple, will not his conscience, because it is weak, be strengthened so that he eats the food sacrificed to idols? For the one who is weak — the brother for whom Christ died — is destroyed by your knowledge. Now if you sin in this way against the brothers and wound their conscience, which is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat forever, in order that I may not cause my brother to sin.
Thankful Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God is answering my prayer for Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God to help me ❤️ love all of Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God with all of me: my heart (emotional), my mind (mental), my soul (social), & my strength (physical) so I can worship Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God ❤️🙏
Isaiah 44:6-8 LEB =>
Thus says יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts:
“I am the first, and I am the last, and there is no god besides me.
And who is like me? Let him proclaim it!
And let him declare it and set it in order for me since I established an eternal people and things that are to come,
and let them tell them the things that are coming.
You must not tremble, and you must not be paralyzed with fear.
Have I not made you hear from of old and declared it, and you are my witnesses?
Is there a god besides me?
And there is no rock! I know none!”
@Brother Rando July 16 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." (John 1:1)
How can the Word be "a god" when there is no god besides יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts.
Revelation 1:9-20 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord) =>
I, John, your brother and co-sharer in the affliction and kingdom and steadfastness in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony about Jesus. I was in the Spirit on the יהוה Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a great sound like a trumpet saying, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
And I turned to see the voice which was speaking with me, and when I turned, I saw seven gold lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching to the feet and girded around his chest with a golden belt, and his head and hair were white like wool, white as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame, and his feet were like fine bronze when it has been fired in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters, and he had in his right hand seven stars, and a sharp double-edged sword coming out of his mouth, and his face was like the sun shining in its strength.
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead person, and he placed his right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid! I am the first and the last, and the one who lives, and I was dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever, and I hold the keys of death and of Hades. Therefore, write the things which you saw, and the things which are, and the things which are about to take place after these things. As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand and the seven gold lampstands — the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Therefore, concerning the eating of food sacrificed to idols, we know that “an idol is nothing in the world” and that “there is no אלהים God except one.”
For even if after all there are so-called אלהים gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many אלהים gods and many lords,
To say אלהים is idol and so called is blaphemy. But that's exectly what you are doing and claiming. I arealy stated that the trinity concecpt is a false and you provide ample proof my naming false gods to support it.
@Brother Rando July 16 You well know that the plural for elohim (gods) is not in the Greek. The Greek rendering is Θεοί (Theoi) is a feminine noun. It comes from the feminine noun (a god) that is in singular.
Strong's Concordance
theos: God, a god
Original Word: θεός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: theos
Phonetic Spelling: (theh'-os)
Definition: God, a god
Usage: (a) God, (b) a god, generally.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus How can the Word be "a god" when there is no god besides יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts.
- Because יהוה sent a messenger that has his יהוה name in him. Angelic guidance for Israel (20-26)
I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, because my name is in him. (Exodus 23:20-21)
יהוה sent His Word in order to give aid and instruction. Those whom disobey His Voice (the angel sent) did pardon their sin and carasses filled the land of the wilderness. Fact!
New American Standard Bible
He said, “If now I have found favor in Your sight, O Lord, I pray, let the Lord go along in our midst, even though the people are so obstinate, and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us as Your own possession.”
King James Version
And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.
Holman Bible
Then he said, “My Lord, if I have indeed found favor in Your sight, my Lord, please go with us. Even though this is a stiff-necked people, forgive our wrongdoing and sin, and accept us as Your own possession.”
International Standard Version
He said, "If I've found favor in your sight, Lord, please, Lord, walk among us. Certainly this is an obstinate people, but pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for your own inheritance."
A Conservative Version
And he said, If now I have found favor in thy sight, O Lord, let the Lord, I pray thee, go in the midst of us, for it is a stiff-necked people, and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.
American Standard Version
And he said, If now I have found favor in thy sight, O Lord, let the Lord, I pray thee, go in the midst of us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.
Amplified
And he said, “If now I have found favor and lovingkindness in Your sight, O Lord, let the Lord, please, go in our midst, though it is a stiff-necked (stubborn, rebellious) people, and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us as Your possession.”
Bible in Basic English
And he said, If now I have grace in your eyes, let the Lord go among us, for this is a stiff-necked people, and give us forgiveness for our wrongdoing and our sin, and take us for your heritage.
Darby Translation
and said, If indeed I have found grace in thine eyes, Lord, let the Lord, I pray thee, go in our midst; for it is a stiff-necked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for an inheritance!
Julia Smith Translation
And he will say, If now I found grace in thine eyes, my lord, my lord will go now in the midst of us (for it is a people of a hard neck) and forgive our iniquity and our sin, and take possession of us.
King James 2000
And he said, If now I have found grace in your sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray you, go among us; for it is a stiff-necked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for your inheritance.
Lexham Expanded Bible
And he said, "Please, if I have found favor in your eyes, Lord, let my Lord, please, go among us--indeed it is a stiff-necked people--and forgive our iniquity and our sin and {take us as your possession}."
Modern King James verseion
And he said, If now I have found grace in Your sight, O Jehovah, I pray You, let my Lord go among us. For it is a stiff-necked people. And pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for Your inheritance.
Modern Spelling Tyndale-Coverdale
and said, "If I have found grace in thy sight O Lord, then let my Lord go with us - for it is a stubborn people. And have mercy upon our wickedness and our sin, and let us be thine inheritance."
NET Bible
and said, "If now I have found favor in your sight, O Lord, let my Lord go among us, for we are a stiff-necked people; pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for your inheritance."
New Heart English Bible
He said, "If now I have found favor in your sight, Lord, please let the Lord go in the midst of us; although this is a stiff-necked people; pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for your inheritance."
The Emphasized Bible
and said - If, I pray thee, I have found favour in thine eyes, O My Lord, I pray thee let My Lord go on in our midst, - although a stiff-necked people, it is, so wilt thou pardon our iniquity and our sin and take us as thine own.
Webster
And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us (for it is a stiff-necked people) and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thy inheritance.
World English Bible
He said, "If now I have found favor in your sight, Lord, please let the Lord go in the midst of us; although this is a stiff-necked people; pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for your inheritance."
Youngs Literal Translation
and saith, 'If, I pray Thee, I have found grace in Thine eyes, O my Lord, let my Lord, I pray Thee, go in our midst (for it is a stiff-necked people), and thou hast forgiven our iniquity and our sin, and hast inherited us.'
6“I have said, ‘You are gods,
All of you are sons of the Most High.
7 But you will die just as men do;
And like any other prince you will fall!’”
It's not my fault that Jesus brought this up to those who denied him as the Messiah. I'm simply quoted his reponse to those wicked ones.
- Jehovah’s word prevails despite demonism in Ephesus (19:11-20)
For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him." (1 Cor 8:5-6)
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Sons of Elohim are NOT Elohim. What scripture shows Elohim (NOT 'sons of Elohim') describing angels ?
Noticed Watchtower detailed explanation asserts "gods are applied to angels," without any scripture support.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Therefore, concerning the eating of food sacrificed to idols, we know that “an idol is nothing in the world” and that “there is no אלהים God except one.”
For even if after all there are so-called אלהים gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many אלהים gods and many lords,
Puzzled by snippet quoting from my July 18 comment having 1 Corinthians 8:1-13 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God), which leaves out context of food sacrificed to idols.
@Brother Rando July 19 To say אלהים is idol and so called is blaphemy. But that's exectly what you are doing and claiming.
Hebrew word אלהים (plural) often refers to Holy אלהים God, but can refer to other אלהים "gods" as it is written in Exodus 20:1-21 LEB =>
And אלהים God spoke all these words, saying, “I am יהוה Yahweh, your אלהים God, who brought you out from the land of Egypt, from the house of slaves.
“There shall be for you no other אלהים gods before me.
“You shall not make for yourself a divine image with any form that is in the heavens above or that is in the earth below or that is in the water below the earth. You will not bow down to them, and you will not serve them, because I am יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God, a jealous אלהים God, punishing the guilt of the parents on the children on the third and on the fourth generations of those hating me, and showing loyal love to thousands of generations of those loving me and of those keeping my commandments.
“You shall not misuse the name of יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God, because יהוה Yahweh will not leave unpunished anyone who misuses his name.
“Remember the day of the Sabbath, to consecrate it. Six days you will work, and you will do all your work. But the seventh day is a Sabbath for יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God; you will not do any work — you or your son or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your animal, or your alien who is in your gates — because in six days יהוה Yahweh made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and on the seventh day he rested. Therefore יהוה Yahweh blessed the seventh day and consecrated it.
“Honor your father and your mother, so that your days can be long on the land that Yahweh your אלהים God is giving you.
“You shall not murder.
“You shall not commit adultery.
“You shall not steal.
“You shall not testify against your neighbor with a false witness.
“You shall not covet the house of your neighbor; you will not covet the wife of your neighbor or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that is your neighbor’s.”
And all the people were seeing the thunder and the lightning and the sound of the ram’s horn and the mountain smoking, and the people saw, and they trembled, and they stood at a distance. And they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will listen, but let not God speak with us, lest we die.” And Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. אלהים God has come to test you so that his fear will be before you so that you do not sin.” And the people stood at a distance, and Moses approached the very thick cloud where אלהים God was.
Trying to avoid misusing יהוה name had Jews using word substitution Adonai (Lord). If "JeHoVaH" is a misuse of יהוה, then what punishment awaits the name abusers ?
@Brother Rando July 16 You well know that the plural for elohim (gods) is not in the Greek. The Greek rendering is Θεοί (Theoi) is a feminine noun. It comes from the feminine noun (a god) that is in singular.
Thank you for repeating JW.org faith belief about θεός being a feminine noun (truly θεός thĕŏs is masculine). The feminine noun is θεά thĕa
2299. θεά thĕa, theh-ah´; fem. of 2316; a female deity:—goddess.
James Strong, A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2009), 36.
2316. θεός thĕŏs, theh´-os; of uncert. affin.; a deity, espec. (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; fig. a magistrate; by Heb. very:—× exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].
James Strong, A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2009), 36.
Θεοί ( Theoi ) is noun, nominative, plural, masculine. My July 16 comment included:
Thayer's lexicon entry about θεός (masculine noun) includes the one feminine use being in Acts 19:37 (goddess reference for Artemis of the Ephesians, which is notably missing from @Brother Rando Strong's Concordance summary)
Also missing from @Brother Rando Strong's Concordance summary is Strong's numbering of original language lemma's (dictionary entry).
By the way, merely repeating the JW.org Strong's Concordance entry with embedded/misleading information (from an untrustworthy organization) shows a return to what @Brother Rando knows while lacking scripture support (all but one use of θεός thĕŏs in the Greek New Testament is masculine). Highly recommend learning Koine Greek grammatical rules, which includes spelling variations to express grammatical usage.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 18 How can the Word be "a god" when there is no god besides יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts.
@Brother Rando July 19 Because יהוה sent a messenger that has his יהוה name in him. Angelic guidance for Israel
To me, יהוה sent a portion of יהוה (The Word) as the salvation messenger (NOT an angel). Remember the last two Hebrew words in Jeremiah 23:6 could be translated: 'יהוה Yahweh Righteousness We' that shows me יהוה Father & יהוה Salvation share Holy יהוה name, which is The Name above every other name.
Exodus 34:9 context is Exodus 34:1-27 LEB =>
And יהוה Yahweh said to Moses, “Cut for yourself two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke. And be ready for the morning, and go up in the morning to Mount Sinai and present yourself to me there on the top of the mountain. And no one will go up with you, and neither let anyone be seen on all the mountain, nor let the sheep and goats and the cattle graze opposite that mountain.”
And Moses cut two stone tablets like the first ones, and he started early in the morning, and he went up to Mount Sinai, as יהוה Yahweh had commanded him, and he took in his hand the two stone tablets. And יהוה Yahweh descended in the cloud, and he stood with him there, and he proclaimed the name of יהוה Yahweh. And יהוה Yahweh passed over before him, and he proclaimed, “יהוה Yahweh, יהוה Yahweh, אלהים God, who is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding with loyal love and faithfulness, keeping loyal love to the thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and he does not leave utterly unpunished, punishing the guilt of fathers on sons and on sons of sons on third and fourth generations.”
And Moses hurried and knelt down to the earth and worshiped. And he said, “Please, if I have found favor in your eyes, Lord, let my Lord, please, go among us — indeed it is a stiff-necked people — and forgive our iniquity and our sin and take us as your possession.”
And he said, “Look, I am about to make a covenant. In front of all your people I will do wonders that have not been created on all the earth and among all the nations, and all the people among whom you are will see יהוה Yahweh’s work, because what I am about to do with you will be awesome.
“Keep for yourself what I myself have commanded you today. Look, I am about to drive from before you the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites. Be careful for yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, lest it be a snare among you. Rather, you will tear down their altars, and you will break their stone pillars, and you will cut off their Asherah poles. For you will not bow in worship to another god, for ‘יהוה Yahweh Is Jealous’ is his name, he is a jealous God, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they prostitute themselves after their אלהים gods, and they sacrifice to their אלהים gods, and they invite you, and you eat their sacrifice, and you take from their daughters for your sons, and their daughters prostitute themselves after their אלהים gods, and they cause your sons to prostitute themselves after their אלהים gods. You will not make אלהים gods of cast metal for yourself.
“You will keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Seven days you will eat unleavened bread, which I commanded you, at the appointed time of the month of Abib, for in the month of Abib you came out from Egypt. Every first offspring of a womb is for me — all of your male livestock, the first offspring of cattle and small livestock. But the first offspring of a donkey you will redeem with small livestock, and if you will not redeem it, you will break its neck. Every firstborn of your sons you will redeem, and you will not appear before me empty-handed. Six days you will work, and on the seventh day you will rest; in the time of plowing and in the time of harvest you will rest. And you yourself will observe the Feast of Weeks — the firstfruits of the wheat harvest — and the Feast of Harvest Gathering at the turn of the year. Three times in the year all your males will appear before the Lord, יהוה Yahweh, the אלהים God of Israel, because I will evict nations before you, and I will enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up to appear before יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God three times in the year.
“You will not slaughter the blood of my sacrifice on food with yeast, and the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover will not stay overnight to the morning. The beginning of the firstfruits of your land you will bring to the house of יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God. You will not boil a young goat in its mother’s milk.”
And יהוה Yahweh said to Moses, “Write for yourself these words, because according to these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”
FYI: a milestone search in Logos Bible Software can quickly show verse(s) in many Bibles for comparison.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Hebrew word אלהים (plural) often refers to Holy אלהים God, but can refer to other אלהים "gods" as it is written in Exodus 20:1-21 LEB =>
And אלהים God spoke all these words, saying, “I am יהוה Yahweh, your אלהים God, who brought you out from the land of Egypt, from the house of slaves.
“There shall be for you no other אלהים gods before me.
And that's why you keep failing. You falsey proclaim that Jehovah is made up of אלהים gods. So your deity of gods or godesses is a false assumption and a strawman.
If you notice of which you already know the Hebrew word אלהים (plural) is nominative not accussative.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Θεοί ( Theoi ) is noun, nominative, plural, masculine (for plural elohim in Psalm 82).
Angels are 'sons' of God... but the Nephilim are sons of gods (angels)
“There shall be for you no other gods (ie...idols, angels) before me."
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Sons of Elohim are NOT Elohim. What scripture shows Elohim (NOT 'sons of Elohim') describing angels ?
Noticed Watchtower detailed explanation asserts "gods are applied to angels," without any scripture support.
@Brother Rando July 19 And that's why you keep failing. You falsey proclaim that Jehovah is made up of אלהים gods. So your deity of gods or godesses is a false assumption and a strawman.
Your words are your own (fails to describe me). My faith believes the unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God correctly inspired original language wording.
@Brother Rando July 19 If you notice of which you already know the Hebrew word אלהים (plural) is nominative not accussative.
Your ignorance of the Hebrew language is showing (along with accusative being mispelled).
Hebrew nouns do not have grammatical case (nominative, accusative, ...), but do have three states: Absolute, Construct, Determined.
Hebrew nouns have three numeric spelling variations: singular, dual, plural. Hence, plural אלהים has a minimum number of three in God (to me, three voices unified uniquely in One, which is different than humans who have a singular voice).
@Brother Rando July 19 “There shall be for you no other gods (ie...idols, angels) before me."
We agree so JW.org belief about Jesus being Michael (an angel) before יהוה is blasphemy (dishonors יהוה Salvation).
Remember the last two Hebrew words in Jeremiah 23:6 could be translated: 'יהוה Yahweh Righteousness We' that shows me יהוה Father & יהוה Salvation share Holy יהוה name, which is The Name above every other name.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus We agree so JW.org belief about Jesus being Michael (an angel) before יהוה is blasphemy (dishonors יהוה Salvation).
If you notice of which you already know the Hebrew word אלהים (plural) is nominative not accusative.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Θεοί ( Theoi ) is noun, nominative, plural, masculine (for plural elohim in Psalm 82).
Your're the one claiming that angel of God is God, therefore, your theology is false, You're the one who claims Moses is God. You're the one claiming that יהוה is made up of gods.
Now, the nominative form of God is a god or gods. You keep tripping over yourself over the little (a) because of your Pride makes you miss a step.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (accusative case), and the Word was a god. (nominative case)”—John 1:1, New World Translation
The “beginning” referred to in this verse cannot mean “the beginning” of God, because God had no beginning. Jehovah God is “from everlasting to everlasting.” (Psalm 90:1, 2) However, the Word, Jesus Christ, did have a beginning. He is “the beginning of the creation by God.”—Revelation 3:14.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Hebrew nouns have three numeric spelling variations: singular, dual, plural. Hence, plural אלהים has a minimum number of three in God (to me, three voices unified uniquely in One, which is different than humans who have a singular voice).
False Worship. 13 And I saw three unclean inspired expressions* that looked like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragony and out of the mouth of the wild beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they perform signs,z and they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the wara of the great day of God the Almighty.b
“There shall be for you no other gods before me."
gods (nominative case) before ME (singular accusative case) יהוה God
God is not made up of three gods.. or three persons or anything else in three.
Learn about the One and Only true God JEHOVAH יהוה. “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.”—DEUT. 6:4. Those words are part of Moses’ parting speech to the nation of Israel gathered on the plains of Moab in the year 1473 B.C.E.
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Sons of Elohim are NOT Elohim. What scripture shows Elohim (NOT 'sons of Elohim') describing angels ?
Noticed Watchtower detailed explanation asserts "gods are applied to angels," without any scripture support.
@Brother Rando July 20 If you notice of which you already know the Hebrew word אלהים (plural) is nominative not accusative.
My study of Hebrew noun formation has encountered Hebrew spelling not showing nominative nor accusative. Hence, your assertion about my knowledge is factually false.
Greek noun & participle (verbal noun) spelling indicates nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, or vocative grammatical usage. Hebrew nouns have three states: Absolute, Construct, Determined
ABSOLUTE
What It Looks Like
The absolute form of a noun is best described by what it is not. It is the form of the noun when the noun is not in the construct form. In other words, it is the normal form of the noun, whether it is masculine or feminine singular, plural, or dual.
. . .
What It Does
As described later in this resource, the translation of the construct form of a noun will be followed by the word “of”; the absolute form of a noun will not. This will obviously have great significance for the relationship of nouns that occur together in a sentence. If the nouns are in the construct form, they will all be connected by the word “of.” If the nouns are in the absolute form, they are simply describing the same thing with different terms. For example, consider the sentence:
“The daughter, the doctor, worked in the hospital.”
In Hebrew, “the daughter” and “the doctor” would be two nouns in the absolute form describing the same person. Now consider the sentence:
“The daughter of the doctor worked in the hospital.”
This sentence, though similar to the first, says something quite different. Now “the daughter” and “the doctor” are two different people. In Hebrew, “the daughter” would be in the construct form (because it is followed by “of”) and “the doctor” would be in the absolute form.
An Exegetical Insight
The difference between an absolute noun and a construct noun can be seen by an examination of Numbers 25:2 in both the Hebrew and the English Bible. There we read that the Moabite women invited the Israelite men to “the sacrifices to their gods.” In this verse we have two nouns, “the sacrifices” and “their gods.” The important question we have to consider is how we are to understand the relationship of these two nouns to one another. If the two nouns were both in the absolute form, that would mean “the sacrifices” and “their gods” would be describing the same thing. In other words, the verse would be saying that the Moabites were making their gods their sacrifices; that is, their sacrifices consisted of their gods. This is a use of the word “of” in English that we find in such sentences as, “He ate a supper of grains of rice.” But we notice in the Hebrew that the first noun is in the construct form, not the absolute. This enables us to see that the sacrifices the Moabites were making did not consist of their gods, but rather were those “of,” or what they thought “belonged to,” their gods. Such a critical difference rides on this single grammatical feature! In this case, the absolute form of the nouns would have signified a praiseworthy action (the destruction of their idols), while the construct form of the first noun unfortunately indicates exactly the opposite (condemnable idolatry). Too bad both nouns weren’t in the absolute form!
Michael Williams, The Biblical Hebrew Companion for Bible Software Users: Grammatical Terms Explained for Exegesis (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2015), 10–11.
Greek genitive spelling can be translated "of" or "from" while Hebrew construct is only "of"
Greek Septuagint shows what Jewish scholars believed about the grammatical function of Hebrew nouns, which predated eternal יהוה Salvation (The Word) being in a Holy human body on earth so Jewish scholars had never experienced a human, who was completely Holy (all humans have sinned as it is written in Psalm 14).
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 19 Θεοί ( Theoi ) is noun, nominative, plural, masculine (for plural elohim in Psalm 82).
@Brother Rando July 20 Your're the one claiming that angel of God is God, therefore, your theology is false, You're the one who claims Moses is God. You're the one claiming that יהוה is made up of gods.
Again your words are your own (fails to describe me). My faith believes the unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God, who has three voices, correctly inspired original language wording.
@Brother Rando July 20 Now, the nominative form of God is a god or gods. You keep tripping over yourself over the little (a) because of your Pride makes you miss a step.
Your words lacking understanding remind me of Matthew 13:10-17 LEB =>
And the disciples came up and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?”
And he answered and said to them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to those people it has not been granted. For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have an abundance. But whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. For this reason I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand, and with reference to them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says,
“You will listen carefully and will never understand, and you will look closely and will never perceive.
For the heart of this people has become dull, and with their ears they hear with difficulty,
and they have shut their eyes, so that they would not see with their eyes
and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.”
But your eyes are blessed because they see, and your ears because they hear. For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it!
Your pride prevents you from turning to יהוה Salvation as Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God for your own healing.
Remember we agreed about original languages not having an indefinite article (a, an)
@Brother Rando July 8 Also Elohim never means (a god) because there is no (a) in the Hebrew language, but rather God to Pharoah and also God to Aaron.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 9 We agree there is no (a) in the Hebrew language. Also the Aramaic & Koine Greek languages do not have an indefinite article (a, an).
English translation "a god" is always a human belief interpretation of original language Scripture context.
The first two words of the Greek Septuagint " Ἐν ἀρχῇ " (In beginning) are repeated to start John 1:1 " Ἐν ἀρχῇ " (In beginning), which often has "the" added in English (In the beginning) for the definiteness of the prepositional phrase. Revelation 3:14 SBLGNT =>
Καὶ τῷ ἀγγέλῳ τῆς ἐν Λαοδικείᾳ ἐκκλησίας γράψον· Τάδε λέγει ὁ Ἀμήν, ὁ μάρτυς ὁ πιστὸς καὶ ἀληθινός, ἡ ἀρχὴ τῆς κτίσεως τοῦ θεοῦ·
And to the angel of the in Laodicea church write: This is what The Amen, The Witness The Faith and True, the beginning of the creation of The God. (my stilted literal translation shows the definite article)
To me, יהוה Salvation (The Word) is eternally true, who spoke the beginning of the creation of The God to do יהוה will, which enabled Breath The Holy to perform creation miracles. All of one unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God created everything from nothing. One of the Apostle Paul's long sentences is numbered Colossians 1:9-20 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
Because of this also we, from the day we heard about it, did not cease praying for you, and asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual insight, so that you may live in a manner worthy of the יהוה Lord, to please him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good deed and increasing in the knowledge of אלהים God, enabled with all power, according to his glorious might, for all steadfastness and patience with joy, giving thanks to the Father who has qualified you for a share of the inheritance of the saints in light, who has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have the redemption, the forgiveness of sins, who is the image of the invisible אלהים God, the firstborn over all creation, because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him, and he himself is before all things, and in him all things are held together, and he himself is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he himself may become first in everything, because he was well pleased for all the fullness to dwell in him, and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by making peace through the blood of his cross, through him, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Thankful for me experiencing Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God's Shalom (complete peace), which is beyond human words to describe well.
Keep Smiling 😊
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To claim יהוה is made up of gods is Blasphemy. Jesus never claimed to be יהוה but rather he invoked the title "Son of Mam" from the Book of Daniel of whom you deny as Messiah.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 19 Θεοί ( Theoi ) is noun, nominative, plural, masculine (for plural elohim in Psalm 82).
May יהוה Rebuke You.
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Sons of Elohim are NOT Elohim. What scripture shows Elohim (NOT 'sons of Elohim') describing angels ?
Noticed Watchtower detailed explanation asserts "gods are applied to angels," without any scripture support.
@Brother Rando July 22 To claim יהוה is made up of gods is Blasphemy. Jesus never claimed to be יהוה but rather he invoked the title "Son of Mam" from the Book of Daniel of whom you deny as Messiah.
Once more your words are your own (fails to describe me). My faith believes the One unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God, who has three voices, correctly inspired original language wording.
To me, "Son of Man" describes the eternal Messiah, who is returning to Heaven as King Righteousness (so your words about my denial are false).
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 19 Θεοί ( Theoi ) is noun, nominative, plural, masculine (for plural elohim in Psalm 82).
@Brother Rando July 22 May יהוה Rebuke You.
May יהוה allow you to see the One unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God who immensely ❤️ Loves you so you can choose who/what to ❤️ Love most. Truly not knowing/obeying יהוה Will (Father) & יהוה Word (Salvation) & Ruach HaKodesh (Breath The Holy) as One unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God reminds me of יהוה Salvation speaking words to do the Will of יהוה Father in Matthew 7:13-23 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord) =>
“Enter through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it, because narrow is the gate and constricted is the road that leads to life, and there are few who find it!
“Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inside are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits: they do not gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles, do they? In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree is not able to produce bad fruit, nor a bad tree to produce good fruit. Every tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. As a result, you will recognize them by their fruits.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘ יהוה Lord, יהוה Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘ יהוה Lord, יהוה Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many miracles in your name?’ And then I will say to them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!’
On אלהים God's Righteous throne, יהוה Salvation (Jesus) describes people saying ' יהוה Lord, יהוה Lord ' as they speak to יהוה Salvation (Jesus). The saddest words anyone can hear from יהוה Salvation are ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!’
By the way, learning Koine Greek gives new meaning to the phrase "That's Greek to me" as I can read parts of the Greek New Testament while other parts are "Greek to me". Thankful my language learning allows me to do my own literal translation, which can be compared with other translations. Correct parsing (word identification) of Θεοί ( Theoi ) is noun, nominative, plural, masculine.
Keep Smiling 😊
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Sons of Elohim are NOT Elohim. What scripture shows Elohim (NOT 'sons of Elohim') describing angels ?
Noticed Watchtower detailed explanation asserts "gods are applied to angels," without any scripture support.
@Brother Rando July 22 You are a Blasphemer against יהוה
Again your words are your own. Remember we agree about Exodus 20:3 wording
@Brother Rando July 19 “There shall be for you no other gods (ie...idols, angels) before me."
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 19 We agree so JW.org belief about Jesus being Michael (an angel) before יהוה is blasphemy (dishonors יהוה Salvation).
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 19 Remember the last two Hebrew words in Jeremiah 23:6 could be translated: 'יהוה Yahweh Righteousness We' that shows me יהוה Father & יהוה Salvation share Holy יהוה name, which is The Name above every other name.
Two subjects (יהוה King & יהוה Redeemer) have singular verbs in Isaiah 44:6 LEB =>
Thus says יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts:
“I am the first, and I am the last, and there is no god besides me.
Who did Jesus (יהוה Salvation) identify as in Revelation 22:12-16 LEB =>
“Behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to repay each one according to what his deeds are! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
Blessed are the ones who wash their robes, so that their authority will be over the tree of life and they may enter into the city through the gates. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the sexually immoral people and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone who loves and who practices falsehood.
“I, Jesus, sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
My faith believes in One unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God in contrast to JW.org (Watchtower) believing in God & a created angel of God. Past prophetic failures prove JW.org is NOT the correct communication channel for Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God.
@Brother Rando July 20 If you notice of which you already know the Hebrew word אלהים (plural) is nominative not accusative.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 21My study of Hebrew noun formation has encountered Hebrew spelling not showing nominative nor accusative. Hence, your assertion about my knowledge is factually false.
Bible text image uploaded by @Brother Rando July 22 shows אלהים (Strong's Hebrew 430) has Morphology of N-mp => Noun - masculine plural
Your Bible text screen shot shows Hebrew word אלהים (plural) morphology matches my Hebrew language learning (so your earlier assertion 'the Hebrew word אלהים (plural) is nominative not accusative.' is factually false).
Keep Smiilng 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus “I, Jesus, sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
My faith believes in One unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God in contrast to JW.org (Watchtower) believing in God & a created angel of God.
Your Catholic faith is false, teaching Mary is a Goddess as the Mother of God. You are a Blasphemer against יהוה
"There shall be for you no other gods אלהים elohim before me."
Also Jesus claimed "I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” The Bible clearly states there is more than one morning star. "When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?" (Job 38:7)
The Bible also states stars are angels. "As for the sacred secret of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars mean the angels of the seven congregations, and the seven lampstands mean the seven congregations." (Rev 1:20)
Angels are Messengers, refuse to obey and your sins will not be pardoned. The Word of God is the Chief Messenger that appeared to Moses, the angel that wrestled Jacob, the angel that told Jacob his Name was Wonderful... the angel that lead the Israelites out of Egypt, the angel that produce a miricale of feeding manna to the Israelites but Destroyed those who rebeled against him.
:Happy is the man who listens to me By coming early to my doors day by day, By waiting next to my doorposts; For the one finding me will find life, And he receives approval from Jehovah. But the one who ignores me harms himself, And those who hate me love death.” (Provrebs 8:34-36)
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus (so your earlier assertion 'the Hebrew word אלהים (plural) is nominative not accusative.' is factually false).
DID you not list the names of FASLE GODS attaching them to gods אלהים elohim ? All of Creation whether it is Firstborn of All Creation or not is not to be placed before JEHOVAH. If the Bright Morning Star is God then you must also claim that morning stars are gods. (Job 38:7 & (Rev 1:20)
"There shall be for you no other gods אלהים elohim before me." Exodus 30:3
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Sons of Elohim are NOT Elohim. What scripture shows Elohim (NOT 'sons of Elohim') describing angels ?
Noticed Watchtower detailed explanation asserts "gods are applied to angels," without any scripture support.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 22 Who did Jesus (יהוה Salvation) identify as in Revelation 22:12-16 LEB =>
“Behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to repay each one according to what his deeds are! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
Blessed are the ones who wash their robes, so that their authority will be over the tree of life and they may enter into the city through the gates. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the sexually immoral people and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone who loves and who practices falsehood.
“I, Jesus, sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 22 My faith believes in One unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God in contrast to JW.org (Watchtower) believing in God & a created angel of God. Past prophetic failures prove JW.org is NOT the correct communication channel for Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God.
@Brother Rando July 23 Your Catholic faith is false, teaching Mary is a Goddess as the Mother of God. You are a Blasphemer against יהוה
Again your words are your own, which has false assertions about me.
The Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 1:12-2:8 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
I give thanks to the one who strengthens me, Christ Jesus our יהוה Lord, because he considered me faithful, placing me into ministry, although I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, but I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief, and the grace of our יהוה Lord abounded with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. The saying is trustworthy and worthy of all acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. But because of this I was shown mercy, in order that in me foremost, Christ Jesus might demonstrate his total patience, for an example for those who are going to believe in him for eternal life. Now to the King of the ages, immortal, invisible, to the only אלהים God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
I am setting before you this instruction, Timothy my child, in accordance with the prophecies spoken long ago about you, in order that by them you may fight the good fight, having faith and a good conscience, which some, because they have rejected these, have suffered shipwreck concerning their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, in order that they may be taught not to blaspheme.
Therefore, I urge first of all that petitions, prayers, requests, and thanksgiving be made on behalf of all people, on behalf of kings and all those who are in authority, in order that we may live a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable before אלהים God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one אלהים God and one mediator between אלהים God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time, for which I was appointed a herald and an apostle — I am speaking the truth, I am not lying — a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger and dispute.
Mary is the physical human mother of יהוה Salvation (Jesus), but Mary is NOT the mediator (intercessor) between אלהים God and human beings.
@Brother Rando July 23 Also Jesus claimed "I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” The Bible clearly states there is more than one morning star.
Phrase "the bright morning star" is spoken only by יהוה Salvation (Jesus), which has the definite article & "bright" that reminds me of other words spoken by יהוה Salvation (Jesus) in John 8:12-59 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: אלהים as God) =>
Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world! The one who follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
So the Pharisees said to him, “You testify concerning yourself! Your testimony is not true.”
Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I testify concerning myself, my testimony is true, because I know where I have come from and where I am going. But you do not know where I have come from or where I am going. You judge according to externals; I do not judge anyone. But even if I judge, my judgment is true, because I am not alone, but I and the Father who sent me. And even in your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true. I am the one who testifies concerning myself, and the Father who sent me testifies concerning me.”
So they were saying to him, “Where is your father?”
Jesus replied, “You know neither me nor my Father! If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.”
He spoke these words by the treasury while teaching in the temple courts, and no one seized him, because his hour had not yet come.
So he said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek me and will die in your sin. Where I am going you cannot come!”
Then the Jews began to say, “Perhaps he will kill himself, because he is saying, ‘Where I am going you cannot come.’ ”
And he said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are from this world; I am not from this world. Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”
So they began to say to him, “Who are you?”
Jesus said to them, “What I have been saying to you from the beginning. I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but the one who sent me is true, and the things which I heard from him, these things I say to the world.”
(They did not know that he was speaking to them about the Father.)
Then Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will recognize that I am he, and I do nothing from myself, but just as the Father taught me, I say these things. And the one who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, because I always do the things that are pleasing to him.”
While he was saying these things, many believed in him.
Then Jesus said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you continue in my word you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
They replied to him, “We are descendants of Abraham and have not been enslaved to anyone at any time. How do you say, ‘You will become free’?”
Jesus replied to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, that everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin. And the slave does not remain in the household forever; the son remains forever. So if the son sets you free, you will be truly free. I know that you are descendants of Abraham. But you are seeking to kill me, because my word makes no progress among you. I speak the things that I have seen with the Father; so also you do the things that you have heard from the Father.”
They answered and said to him, “Abraham is our father!”
Jesus said to them, “If you are children of Abraham, do the deeds of Abraham! But now you are seeking to kill me, a man who spoke to you the truth which I heard from God. This Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father!”
They said to him, “We were not born from sexual immorality! We have one father, אלהים God!”
Jesus said to them, “If אלהים God were your father, you would love me, for I have come forth from אלהים God and have come. For I have not come from myself, but that one sent me. Why do you not understand my way of speaking? Because you are not able to listen to my message. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father! That one was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand firm in the truth, because truth is not in him. Whenever he speaks the lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I am telling the truth, you do not believe me. Who among you convicts me concerning sin? If I am telling the truth, why do you not believe me? The one who is from אלהים God listens to the words of אלהים God. Because of this you do not listen — because you are not of אלהים God.”
The Jews answered and said to him, “Do we not correctly say that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
Jesus replied, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me! But I do not seek my own glory. There is one who seeks and judges! Truly, truly I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never experience death forever.”
The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham and the prophets died, and you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death forever.’ You are not greater than our father Abraham who died, are you? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself to be?”
Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. The one who glorifies me is my Father, about whom you say, ‘He is our אלהים God.’ And you have not known him, but I know him. And if I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you! But I know him and I keep his word. Abraham your father rejoiced that he would see my day, and he saw it and was glad.”
So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I am!”
Then they picked up stones in order to throw them at him. But Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple courts.
What had יהוה Salvation (Jesus) said for stones to be picked up by Jewish religious lawyers per Leviticus 24:10-23 LEB =>
And an Israelite woman’s son, and he was an Egyptian man’s son, went out in the midst of the Israelites; and the Israelite woman’s son and an Israelite man fought in the camp. Then the Israelite woman’s son blasphemed the name, and he cursed, so they brought him to Moses — and the name of his mother was Shelomith the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan. Then they put him in custody so that the matter might be made clear to them in accordance with the mouth of Yahweh.
Then יהוה Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying, “Bring the curser outside the camp, and all the hearers shall place their hands on his head, and the whole community shall stone him. And you shall speak to the Israelites, saying, ‘Any man when he curses his God shall bear his sin. And he who blasphemes יהוה Yahweh’s name certainly shall be put to death; the whole community certainly shall stone him. As the alien, so the native shall be put to death at blaspheming his name.
“ ‘And when a man kills any human being, he certainly shall be put to death. And he who kills a domestic animal must repay for it life in place of life. And when a man causes a physical defect in his fellow citizen according to what he has done, so it shall be done to him: fracture in place of fracture, eye in place of eye, tooth in place of tooth — according to the physical defect he causes to the person, likewise it shall be caused to him. And a killer of a domestic animal must repay for it, and a killer of a human shall be put to death. You must have one norm; as for the alien, so it must be for the native, because I am יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God.’ ”
Thus Moses spoke to the Israelites, and they brought the curser outside the camp, and they stoned him with stones, and the Israelites did just as יהוה Yahweh had commanded Moses.
To me, the JW.org (Watchtower Society) belief of Jesus being Michael, an archangel, dishonors (curses) יהוה Salvation (Jesus) & יהוה Father. Righteous destination (death) for dishonoring (cursing) יהוה אלהינו יהוה is eternal separation from Holy immense ❤️ Love of יהוה אלהינו יהוה
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 22 Who did Jesus (יהוה Salvation) identify as in Revelation 22:12-16 LEB =>
“Behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to repay each one according to what his deeds are! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
Of course Jesus is the Beginning of All Creation. Jesus also stated, "I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star."
The Bright Morning Star is the Word of God that was created. When? In the Beginning of Creation. Then "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men." (John 1:3-4)
John 1:3
What has come into existence: The earliest Greek manuscripts do not have any punctuation in verses 3 and 4. The punctuation used in the New World Translation is according to the scholarly editions of the Greek text published by Westcott and Hort, the United Bible Societies, and Nestle and Aland. The last part of verse 3 is linked with verse 4. This rendering indicates that life and light came into existence by means of the Word. (Col 1:15, 16) Some translations follow another understanding of the Greek text and connect the last part of verse 3 with the preceding words, conveying the idea “and apart from him not even one thing came into existence that has come into existence.” However, many scholars support the reading of the New World Translation.
him: That is, the Word, or the Logos.—See study note on Joh 1:1.
life . . . light: These two themes are woven into the fabric of John’s inspired account. God is the Source of life, and by means of Jesus, the Word, all other forms of life “came into existence.” (Joh 1:3) In this sense, life came through Jesus Christ. Also by means of Jesus, God made it possible for sinful, dying mankind to gain everlasting life. In that sense, Jesus can be identified as the life that became the light of men. Joh 1:9 calls the Word “the true light that gives light to every sort of man.” Humans who follow Jesus, “the light of the world,” will “possess the light of life.” (Joh 8:12) The Word is God’s “Chief Agent of life,” enlightening mankind on their way to gain life.—Ac 3:15.
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Wikipedia => Papyrus 66 includes Koine Greek manuscript image showing text of John 1:1-13 with start of John 1:14
that does NOT have chapter nor verse numbering (added over 1,400 years later). Manuscript image also shows Greek letters written next to each other so need to know Koine Greek grammatical word spelling for reading original manuscript.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 22 Who did Jesus (יהוה Salvation) identify as in Revelation 22:12-16 LEB =>
“Behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to repay each one according to what his deeds are! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
@Brother Rando July 28 Of course Jesus is the Beginning of All Creation. Jesus also stated, "I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star."
@Brother Rando July 28 The Bright Morning Star is the Word of God that was created.
Noticed JW.org (Watchtower Society) faith belief embedded in your assertion. To me, The Bright Morning Star is the יהוה Word of אלהים God who did the will of יהוה Father by speaking Holy words for the creation of everything: e.g. wisdom.
Noticed evasion of my question yet again:
Sons of Elohim are NOT Elohim. What scripture shows Elohim (NOT 'sons of Elohim') describing angels ?
Noticed Watchtower detailed explanation asserts "gods are applied to angels," without any scripture support.
Watchtower faith belief needs "gods are applied to angels," assumption/assertion for JW.org interpretation in John 1:1 "a god" (where "a" is an interpretative belief because Koine Greek does not have an indefinite article).
John 1:1-5 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: אלהים as God) =>
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with אלהים God, and the Word was אלהים God. This one was in the beginning with אלהים God. All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being. In him was life, and the life was the light of humanity. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it.
is consistent with words spoken by יהוה Salvation in John 8:12-59 LEB that was included in my July 28 comment and also consistent with the Apostle Paul writing one long sentence in Colossians 1:9-20 LEB that was included in my July 21 comment.
Keep Smiling 😊
