Jesus ? "Not God" ? Savior ?
Comments
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Even your person interpretation of the Greek is Deceptive and of demonic overtones.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christwho introduces False Reasoning in order to deny JESUS CHRISTEphesians 3:14-19 (SBLGNT) is one Greek sentence penned by Paul =>
Τούτου χάριν κάμπτω τὰ γόνατά μου πρὸς τὸν πατέρα, ἐξ οὗ πᾶσα πατριὰ ἐν οὐρανοῖς καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς ὀνομάζεται, ἵνα δῷ ὑμῖν κατὰ τὸ πλοῦτος τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ δυνάμει κραταιωθῆναι διὰ τοῦ πνεύματος αὐτοῦ εἰς τὸν ἔσω ἄνθρωπον, κατοικῆσαι τὸν Χριστὸν διὰ τῆς πίστεως ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν ἐν ἀγάπῃ· ἐρριζωμένοι καὶ τεθεμελιωμένοι, ἵνα ἐξισχύσητε καταλαβέσθαι σὺν πᾶσιν τοῖς ἁγίοις τί τὸ πλάτος καὶ μῆκος καὶ ὕψος καὶ βάθος, γνῶναί τε τὴν ὑπερβάλλουσαν τῆς γνώσεως ἀγάπην τοῦ Χριστοῦ, ἵνα πληρωθῆτε εἰς πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ θεοῦ.
The last clause is "... , ἵνα πληρωθῆτε εἰς πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ θεοῦ. " " ... , so that ye may be complete to all the fullness of/from the God. "
The last clause does not read" ... , so that ye may be complete to all the fullness of/from the God. "
But rather ἵνα πληρωθῆτε εἰς πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ θεοῦ - "that you may be paid in all the fullness of God." You falsely inserted the definite article (the) into the scripture to change its meaning. Those who deny the Father and the Son do not have either of them.
- Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
- For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 2 John 7
The scriptures at Ephesians 3:14-19 are speaking about how Christ leads us to God. Something the AntiChrist rejects in the same manner you reject Christ.
- For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 1 Peter 3:18
The Apostle Paul never spoke about Jesus being God but spoke on several different occasions that Christ is the angel of God and that he belonged to the angel that recruited him.
- “For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,” Acts 27:23
- And though my physical condition was a trial for you, you did not treat me with contempt or disgust; but you received me like an angel of God, like Christ Jesus. Galatians 4:14
- and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was the Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:4
You yourself admitted that the angel that led Israel out of the wilderness was Michael and here we see the Apostle Paul stating the spiritual rock that followed them, and that rock was the Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:4
One should note the Anti-Christian Bible of the LEB removed the Greek word ho which means (the). ie.... the Christ to read Christ.
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@Brother Rando December 24 Even your person interpretation of the Greek is Deceptive and of demonic overtones.
To me, your words are your own, which lack ❤️ love (& falsely describe me). Numerous Unfulfilled Watch Tower Society predictions provide reason NOT to trust the human organization. True Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God prophets (communication channels) pass test of 100% accuracy.
@Brother Rando December 24 But rather ἵνα πληρωθῆτε εἰς πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ θεοῦ - "that you may be paid in all the fullness of God."
Translation "may be paid" for Koine Greek πληρωθῆτε (verb πληρόω, aorist, passive, subjunctive, 2nd person, plural) is puzzling. Noticed @Brother Rando linked to Google translate for Contemporary Greek to English translation. A lexicon entry for Koine Greek verb πληρόω does NOT have "paid" NOR "pay" in the range of meanings =>
Πληρόω, to make full; relatively, to fill; absolutely, to fulfil or complete. Primarily, with reference to space, and then of other relations.—(I.) Relatively, to make anything full, to fill, either τί τινος, or so that the subject forms the contents of the object; (a.) τί τινος, local, Matt. 13:48; John 12:3. Figuratively, Acts 2:28, εὐφροσύνης; Rom. 15:13, χαρᾶς, as in 2 Tim. 1:4; Acts 13:52, χαρᾶς καὶ πνεύματος ἁγίου; Rom. 15:14, γνώσεως; Luke 2:40, σοφίας; Acts 5:28, πεπληρώκατε τὴν Ἱερουσαλὴμ τῆς διδαχῆς ὑμῶν. Rarely, but sometimes in profane Greek, with the dative (e.g. Eur. Herc. fur. 372; Plut. de plac. phil. i. 7, συμπεπληρωμένον πᾶσι τοῖς ἀγαθοῖς), as in Rom. 1:29, ἀδικίᾳ; 2 Cor. 7:4, παρακλήσει. In place of this ἐν is used. Eph. 5:18, πληροῦσθε ἐν πνεύματι, as against μὴ μεθύσκεσθε οἴνῳ; Col. 2:10, ἐστὲ ἐν αὐτῷ πεπληρωμένοι, where the rendering, to be filled by Christ, most simply and in a most unforced manner suits the connection, and carries it on, cf. Eph. 1:23; whereas an absolute πληροῦσθαι, πεπληρωμένος, in an ethical sense, as = τέλειος, after the analogy of Phil. 4:18, is untenable. See Huther on Col. 4:12, where we must either join πεπληρωμένοι with ἐν παντὶ θελήματι, or, according to the best mss., read πεπληροφορημένοι. There is no reason for taking the verb independently (as Harless does, through dislike of the combination πληροῦσθαι ἐν), and preferring the rendering, to be satisfied, to have enough, which in all these passages would hardly be in keeping with the context. Analogous to this is πληροῦσθαι εἰς πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ θεοῦ, Eph. 3:19, instead of the simple accusative, Phil. 1:11, καρπὸν δικαιοσύνης (καρπῶν, Rec. text); Col. 1:9, τὴν ἐπίγυωσιν τοῦ θελήματος αὐτοῦ. This construction also is unknown in profane Greek (cf. the intransitive ὁ θεὸς … πεπληρώκει μακαριότητα, Plut. de placit. phil. i. 7); still it must be retained, because an absolute πληροῦσθαι in any appropriate sense is untenable, or indeed inadmissible. (b.) The subject forms the contents of the object, Acts 2:2, ἦχος ἐπλήρωσεν ὅλον τὸν οἶκον; John 16:6, ἡ λύπη πεπλήρωκεν ὑμῶν τὴν καρδίαν; Acts 5:3, ἐπλήρωσεν ὁ σατανᾶς τὴν καδίαν σου, ψεύσασθαί σε κ.τ.λ.; Eph. 4:10, τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ τὰ πάντα ἐν πᾶσιν πληρουμένου. For the middle in this last passage, comp. Xen. Hell. vi. 2. 14, τὰς ναῦς ἐπληροῦτο καὶ τοὺς τριηράρχους ἠνάγκαζε; vi. 2. 35, αὐτὸς πληρωσάμενος τήν ναῦν ἐξέπλει So also in Dem., Plut., Polyb.
(II.) Absolutely, to complete or fulfil, e.g. Luke 3:5, φάραγξ πληρωθήσεται; Matt. 23:32, πληρώσατε τὸ μέτρον τῶν πατέρων ὑμῶν, cf. Dan. 8:23; 2 Macc. 6:14; 1 Thess. 2:16, εἰς τὸ ἀναπληρῶσαι αὑτῶν τὰς ἁμαρτίας. So in profane Greek with many applications, e.g. to complete a number, to fulfil a definite time, a wish, a promise; πληρωθῆναι, to be fully satisfied or supplied, cf. Phil. 4:18. Still more variously in N. T. Greek as synon. with τελεῖν, τελειοῦν = to finish, to conclude; e.g. τὰ ῥήματα, Luke 7:1, cf. Matt. 7:28; 1 Kings 1:14; ἔργον, Acts 14:26; Rev. 3:2, see Acts 19:21, 12:25; ἔξοδον, Luke 9:31, cf. δρόμον, Acts 13:25, completely to establish, e.g. ὑπακοή, 2 Cor. 10:6; χαρά, John 3:29, 15:11, 16:24, 17:13; 1 John 1:4; 2 John 12. In particular of prophecies, ἵνα πληρωθῇ τὸ ῥηθέν, Matt. 1:22, 2:15, 17, 23, 4:14, 8:17, 13:35, 21:4, 27:9; ἡ γραφὴ, αἱ γραφαί, Matt. 26:54, 56; Mark 14:49, 15:28; Luke 4:21; John 13:18, 17:12, 19:24, 36; Acts 1:16; Jas. 2:23; ὁ λόγος, John 12:38, 15:25, 18:9, 32, cf. Acts 13:27. In connection therewith, Luke 24:44, δεῖ πληρωθῆναι πάντα; Acts 3:18, θεὸς … ἐπλήρωσεν οὕτως; Luke 22:16, ἕως ὅτου πληρωθῇ ἐν τῇ βασιλείᾳ τ. θ. = to realize (cf. Luke 22:16, under βασιλεία). Also τὸ εὐαγγέλ., Rom. 15:19, and Col. 1:25, τὸν λόγον τ. θ.? Cf. ἀναπληροῦν, Matt. 13:14. This is akin to the profane πληροῦν τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν, Arr. Epict. iii. 23; τὰς ὑποσχέσεις, Herodian, ii. 7. 9. Πληροῦν καιρόν, moreover, is not, as some say, peculiar to Hellenistic or biblical Greek, but occurs sometimes (though, perhaps, more rarely) in profane Greek, e.g. Plat. Legg. ix. 866 A, Α, ἐὰν δὲ … τοὺς χρόνους μή ἐθέλῃ πληροῦν ἀποξενούμενος τοὺς εἰρημένους, si tempora non vult complere peregrinationis praescripta = to complete, of the termination of a certain period, whether retrospectively or prospectively. So in the O. T. = מָלֵא, Kal and Piel; Gen. 29:21; Jer. 25:12; Ecclus. 26:2; Gen. 25:24; Lev. 12:4, 25:30, cf. ver. 29 = תמם. See Acts 7:23, 30, 9:23, 24:27; John 7:8. Especially of the times of the economy of grace, Mark 1:15, πεπλήρωται ὁ καιρός, cf. Gen. 29:21, of a term of years now expired, and a definite period having now arrived.—Luke 21:24, ἄχρι οὗ πληρωθῶσιν καιροὶ ἐθνῶν.—We also meet with the expression πληροῦν τὸν νόμον, to fulfil or accomplish the law, cf. Herod. i. 199, ἐκπλῆσαι τὸν νόμον. So in Rom. 13:8; Gal. 5:14. See Matt. 5:17, 3:15, πληρῶσαι πᾶσαν δικαιοσύνην; Rom. 8:4, ἵνα τὸ δικαίωμα τοῦ νόμου πληρωθῇ ἐν ἡμῖν; 2 Thess. 1:11, πλ. πᾶσαν εὐδοκίαν ἀγαθωσύνης.
Hermann Cremer, trans. William Urwick, Biblico-Theological Lexicon of New Testament Greek (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1895), 499–501.
The 4th definition of πληρόω in BDAG includes "pay attention to your duty ... and perform it" =>
④ to bring to a designed end, fulfill a prophecy, an obligation, a promise, a law, a request, a purpose, a desire, a hope, a duty, a fate, a destiny, etc.
ⓐ of the fulfillment of divine predictions or promises.
ⓑ a prayer (Chariton 8, 1, 9 πεπληρώκασιν οἱ θεοὶ τὰς εὐχάς; Aristaen., Ep. 1, 16 the god πεπλήρωκε τ. εὐχήν [=prayer]; IBM 894, 8 of answered prayer) πληρῶσαί μου τὴν αἴτησιν answer my prayer ITr 13:3 (cp. Ps 19:5; TestAbr A 15 p. 96, 4 [Stone p. 40]).
• A command(ment) (Herodian 3, 11, 4 τὰς ἐντολάς; POxy 1252A, 9 πλήρωσον τὸ κεκελευσμένον; 1 Macc 2:55; SibOr 3, 246) πεπλήρωκεν ἐντολὴν δικαιοσύνης Pol 3:3.
• νόμον (Ps.-Demetr., Form. Ep. p. 12, 9; cp. Hdt. 1, 199 ἐκπλῆσαι τὸν νόμον) Ro 13:8; pass. Gal 5:14 (but s. 3 above and cp. Aeschyl., Ag. 313).
• τὸ δικαίωμα τοῦ νόμου Ro 8:4.
• πᾶσαν δικαιοσύνην (cp. 4 Macc 12:14 πλ. τὴν εὐσέβειαν) Mt 3:15 (s. AFridrichsen: Congr. d’Hist. du Christ. I 1928, 167–77; OEissfeldt, ZNW 61, ’70, 209–15 and s. βαπτίζω 2a, end);
• pass. ISm 1:1 (s. δικαιοσύνη 3b).
• Also ἐστὶ πρέπον πληρωθῆναι πάντα it is fitting that all things should be fulfilled GEb 18, 40 (cp. APF 3, 1906, 370 II, 7 [II a.d.] ἕως ἅπαντα τὰ κατʼ ἐμὲ πεπληρῶσθαι).
• —A duty or office βλέπε τὴν διακονίαν … , ἵνα αὐτὴν πληροῖς pay attention to your duty … and perform it Col 4:17 (cp. CIG 2336 πλ. πᾶσαν ἀρχὴν κ. λειτουργίαν; PFlor 382, 40 πληρῶσαι τὴν λειτουργίαν; ISardRobert I p. 39 n. 5).
William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 828–829.
Contemporary Greek has ~ 2,000 years of evolving since Koine Greek, which had evolved from Classical Greek. An English example of evolution is the change of "ye" (plural) & "thee" (singular) combining into "you". Historical note is "you" combination already happening in the early 1600's, but the translation requirement to keep Bishop's Bible language wording whenever practical kept "ye" & "thee" in the Authorized Version, which is also called the King James Version.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus December 24 Ephesians 3:14-19 (SBLGNT) is one Greek sentence penned by Paul =>
Τούτου χάριν κάμπτω τὰ γόνατά μου πρὸς τὸν πατέρα, ἐξ οὗ πᾶσα πατριὰ ἐν οὐρανοῖς καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς ὀνομάζεται, ἵνα δῷ ὑμῖν κατὰ τὸ πλοῦτος τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ δυνάμει κραταιωθῆναι διὰ τοῦ πνεύματος αὐτοῦ εἰς τὸν ἔσω ἄνθρωπον, κατοικῆσαι τὸν Χριστὸν διὰ τῆς πίστεως ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν ἐν ἀγάπῃ· ἐρριζωμένοι καὶ τεθεμελιωμένοι, ἵνα ἐξισχύσητε καταλαβέσθαι σὺν πᾶσιν τοῖς ἁγίοις τί τὸ πλάτος καὶ μῆκος καὶ ὕψος καὶ βάθος, γνῶναί τε τὴν ὑπερβάλλουσαν τῆς γνώσεως ἀγάπην τοῦ Χριστοῦ, ἵνα πληρωθῆτε εἰς πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ θεοῦ.
Notice SBLGNT has several commas separating clauses with one period. The Apostle Paul wrote some long sentences: e.g. Colossians 1:9-20 & Ephesians 1:3-14
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus December 24 The last clause is "... , ἵνα πληρωθῆτε εἰς πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ θεοῦ. " " ... , so that ye may be complete to all the fullness of/from the God. "
@Brother Rando December 24 The last clause does not read" ... , so that ye may be complete to all the fullness of/from the God. "
@Brother Rando December 24 You falsely inserted the definite article (the) into the scripture to change its meaning.
The last two words in the last clause are " τοῦ θεοῦ " " the God " that does not appear in many English translations as English grammar does not need "the" after preposition "of".
@Brother Rando December 24 Those who deny the Father and the Son do not have either of them.
We agree. 2 John 5-11 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: אלהים as God) =>
And now I ask you, lady (not as if I were writing a new commandment to you, but one that we have had from the beginning), that we should love one another. And this is love: that we walk according to his commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. This person is the deceiver and the antichrist! Watch yourselves that you do not lose what we have worked for, but receive a full reward. Everyone who goes too far and does not remain in the teaching of Christ does not have אלהים God. The one who remains in the teaching — this person has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house and do not speak a greeting to him, because the one who speaks a greeting to him shares in his evil deeds.
Curious about @Brother Rando purpose for quoting scripture snippet 2 John 9 followed by 2 John 7 that left out context, especially ❤️ love one another ?
Psalm 110:1-7 LEB =>
A declaration of יהוה Yahweh to my lord, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.” יהוה Yahweh will send out your mighty scepter from Zion; rule in the midst of your enemies. Your people will volunteer in the day of your power. In holy splendor, from the womb of the dawn, you will have the dew of your youth. יהוה Yahweh has sworn and he will not change his mind, “You are a priest forever according to the manner of Melchizedek.” O Lord, at your right hand he will shatter kings in the day of his anger. He will judge among the nations; he will fill them with corpses. He will shatter the rulers of many countries. He will drink from the stream by the road; therefore he will lift up his head.
What is the meaning of Melchizedek ?
1 Peter 3:13-22 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
And who is the one who will harm you if you are a zealous adherent for what is good? But even if you might suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And do not be afraid of their intimidation or be disturbed, but set Christ apart as יהוה Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense to anyone who asks you for an accounting concerning the hope that is in you. But do so with courtesy and respect, having a good conscience, so that in the things in which you are slandered, the ones who malign your good conduct in Christ may be put to shame. For it is better to suffer for doing good, if אלהים God wills it, than for doing evil. For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, in order that he could bring you to אלהים God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, in which also he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, who were formerly disobedient, when the patience of God waited in the days of Noah, while an ark was being constructed, in which a few — that is, eight souls — were rescued through water. And also, corresponding to this, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, with angels and authorities and powers having been subjected to him.
How does Psalm 110 Melchizedek (King Righteous) relate to Christ at the right hand of אלהים God ?
Acts 9:1-9 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord) =>
But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the יהוה Lord, went to the high priest and asked for letters from him to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, both men and women, he could bring them tied up to Jerusalem. Now as he proceeded, it happened that when he approached Damascus, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. And falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” So he said, “Who are you, יהוה Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting! But get up and enter into the city, and it will be told to you what you must do.” (Now the men who were traveling together with him stood speechless, because they heard the voice but saw no one.) So Saul got up from the ground, but although his eyes were open he could see nothing. And leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus. And he was unable to see for three days, and he did not eat or drink.
Who did Saul see on the road to Damascus ?
@Brother Rando December 24 “For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,” Acts 27:23
Does the angel of God (possibly Michael) look the same as יהוה Lord Jesus, whom Paul (Saul) had seen ?
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Brother Rando December 24 But rather ἵνα πληρωθῆτε εἰς πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ θεοῦ - "that you may be paid in all the fullness of God."
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christwho introduces False Reasoning in order to deny JESUS CHRISTTranslation "may be paid" for Koine Greek πληρωθῆτε (verb πληρόω, aorist, passive, subjunctive, 2nd person, plural) is puzzling. Noticed @Brother Rando linked to Google translate for Contemporary Greek to English translation. A lexicon entry for Koine Greek verb πληρόω does NOT have "paid" NOR "pay" in the range of meanings => Πληρόω, to make full; relatively, to fill; absolutely, to fulfil or complete. Absolutely, to complete or fulfil,
Of course you would deny that Jesus Christ paid the price to free mankind from sin. The antichrists deny
- Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 1 Peter 3:18
- Who will condemn them? Christ Jesus is the one who died, yes, more than that, the one who was raised up, who is at the right hand of God and who also pleads for us. Romans 8:34
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@Brother Rando December 24 But rather ἵνα πληρωθῆτε εἰς πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ θεοῦ - "that you may be paid in all the fullness of God."
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus December 25 Translation "may be paid" for Koine Greek πληρωθῆτε (verb πληρόω, aorist, passive, subjunctive, 2nd person, plural) is puzzling. Noticed @Brother Rando linked to Google translate for Contemporary Greek to English translation. A lexicon entry for Koine Greek verb πληρόω does NOT have "paid" NOR "pay" in the range of meanings =>
Πληρόω, to make full; relatively, to fill; absolutely, to fulfil or complete. Primarily, with reference to space, and then of other relations.—(I.) Relatively, to make anything full, to fill, either τί τινος, or so that the subject forms the contents of the object; ...
@Brother Rando December 25 Of course you would deny that Jesus Christ paid the price to free mankind from sin.
Again your words are your own, which are a false rendering about me. I seek first to understand original language words in original context.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus December 24 The last clause is "... , ἵνα πληρωθῆτε εἰς πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ θεοῦ. " " ... , so that ye may be complete to all the fullness of/from the God. "
ἵνα => so that <= conjunction, adverbial purpose
πληρωθῆτε => "ye may be complete" (OR "ye may be made full") <= verb, aorist, passive, subjunctive, 2nd person, plural ("ye" is Olde English plural you)
εἰς => to <= preposition
πᾶν => all <= adjective, accusative, singular, neuter
τὸ => the <= article, accusative, singular, neuter
πλήρωμα => fullness <= noun, accusative, singular, neuter (noun πλήρωμα & verb πληρόω have rela
τοῦ => of/from the <= article, genitive, singular, masculine (genitive = of possession OR from ablative agent)
θεοῦ => of/from God <= noun, genitive, singular, masculine (genitive = of possession OR from ablative agent)
FWIW: Google translate of English to Contemporary Greek: " that you may be paid in all the fullness of God. " => " για να πληρωθείτε με όλη την πληρότητα του Θεού. " that is significantly different than Koine Greek " ἵνα πληρωθῆτε εἰς πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ θεοῦ. ". Google translate of Contemporary Greek to English: " για να πληρωθείτε με όλη την πληρότητα του Θεού. " => " that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. " (reminds me of my literal Koine Greek translation, which has an alternative: "... , so that ye may be made full to all the fullness of/from the God. ")
@Brother Rando December 25 Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 1 Peter 3:18
Peter wrote one Koine Greek sentence that is numbered 1 Peter 3:18-20.
A declaration of יהוה Yahweh to my lord, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.” יהוה Yahweh will send out your mighty scepter from Zion; rule in the midst of your enemies. Your people will volunteer in the day of your power. In holy splendor, from the womb of the dawn, you will have the dew of your youth. יהוה Yahweh has sworn and he will not change his mind, “You are a priest forever according to the manner of Melchizedek.” O Lord, at your right hand he will shatter kings in the day of his anger. He will judge among the nations; he will fill them with corpses. He will shatter the rulers of many countries. He will drink from the stream by the road; therefore he will lift up his head.
What is the meaning of Melchizedek ?
1 Peter 3:13-22 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
And who is the one who will harm you if you are a zealous adherent for what is good? But even if you might suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And do not be afraid of their intimidation or be disturbed, but set Christ apart as יהוה Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense to anyone who asks you for an accounting concerning the hope that is in you. But do so with courtesy and respect, having a good conscience, so that in the things in which you are slandered, the ones who malign your good conduct in Christ may be put to shame. For it is better to suffer for doing good, if אלהים God wills it, than for doing evil. For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, in order that he could bring you to אלהים God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, in which also he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, who were formerly disobedient, when the patience of God waited in the days of Noah, while an ark was being constructed, in which a few — that is, eight souls — were rescued through water. And also, corresponding to this, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, with angels and authorities and powers having been subjected to him.
How does Psalm 110 Melchizedek (King Righteous) relate to Christ at the right hand of אלהים God ?
@Brother Rando December 25 Who will condemn them? Christ Jesus is the one who died, yes, more than that, the one who was raised up, who is at the right hand of God and who also pleads for us. Romans 8:34
Romans 8:18-39 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
For I consider that the sufferings of the present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us. For the eagerly expecting creation awaits eagerly the revelation of the sons of אלהים God. For the creation has been subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its servility to decay, into the glorious freedom of the children of אלהים God. For we know that the whole creation groans together and suffers agony together until now. Not only this, but we ourselves also, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves while we await eagerly our adoption, the redemption of our body. For in hope we were saved, but hope that is seen is not hope, for who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we await it eagerly with patient endurance. And likewise also, the Spirit helps us in our weakness, for we do not know how to pray as one ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with unexpressed groanings. And the one who searches our hearts knows what the mindset of the Spirit is, because he intercedes on behalf of the saints according to the will of אלהים God. And we know that all things work together for good for those who love אלהים God, for those who are called according to his purpose, because those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he should be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined, these he also called, and those whom he called, these he also justified, and those whom he justified, these he also glorified. What then shall we say about these things? If אלהים God is for us, who can be against us? Indeed, he who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all, how will he not also, together with him, freely give us all things? Who will bring charges against אלהים God’s elect? אלהים God is the one who justifies. Who is the one who condemns? Christ is the one who died, and more than that, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of אלהים God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will affliction or distress or persecution or hunger or lack of sufficient clothing or danger or the sword? Just as it is written, “On account of you we are being put to death the whole day long; we are considered as sheep for slaughter.” No, but in all these things we prevail completely through the one who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of אלהים God that is in Christ Jesus our יהוה Lord.
How does Psalm 110 Melchizedek (King Righteous) relate to Christ Jesus our יהוה Lord at the right hand of אלהים God ?
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christwho introduces False Reasoning in order to deny JESUS CHRISTHow does Psalm 110 Melchizedek (King Righteous) relate to Christ Jesus our יהוה Lord at the right hand of אלהים God ?
Melchizedek was King and High Priest, he Blessed Abraham. Salem is Old Jerusalem.
- And Mel·chizʹe·dek king of Saʹlem brought out bread and wine; he was priest of the Most High God. Genesis 14:18
- where a forerunner has entered in our behalf, Jesus, who has become a high priest in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek forever. Hebrews 6:20
- For it is said in witness of him: “You are a priest forever in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.” Hebrews 7:17
Jesus is not the Most High God but was appointed and designated as King and High Priest in the same manner Melchizedek by the Most High God.
- Psalm 2:7 Let me proclaim the decree of Jehovah; He said to me: “You are my son; Today I have become your father.
- Acts 13:33 God has completely fulfilled it to us, their children, by resurrecting Jesus; just as it is written in the second psalm: ‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’
- Hebrews 5:5 So, too, the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but was glorified by the One who said to him: “You are my son; today I have become your father.”
Also, the sitting on God's throne does not make Solomon God either.
- And Solʹo·mon sat on Jehovah’s throne as king in place of David his father, and he was successful, and all the Israelites were obedient to him.
- “He said to me, ‘Your son Solʹo·mon is the one who will build my house and my courtyards, for I have chosen him as my son and I will become his father
Psalm 45:6 God is your throne forever and ever; The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness.
Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,
Hebrews 12:24 and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood, which speaks in a better way than Abel’s blood.
Hebrews 8:6 But now Jesus has obtained a more excellent ministry because he is also the mediator of a correspondingly better covenant, which has been legally established on better promises.
Hebrews 9:15 That is why he is a mediator of a new covenant, in order that because a death has occurred for their release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance.
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@Brother Rando December 26 Jesus is not the Most High God but was appointed and designated as King and High Priest in the same manner Melchizedek by the Most High God.
Did the Most High God make a mistake in this spoken command to followers of Jesus:
πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν θεόν, καὶ εἰς ἐμὲ πιστεύετε (John 14:1 Greek spoken by יֵשׁוּעַ ) ?
Be Ye Believing in The אלהים God, also in Me Be Ye Believing
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christwho introduces False Reasoning in order to deny JESUS CHRISTIs Melchizedek the Most High God? What about David and Solomon who sat on the throne of the Most High God? I think not, they are Representatives in the manner that Jesus is God's Personal Representative.
πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν θεόν, καὶ εἰς ἐμὲ πιστεύετε - τὸν θεόν (tón theón) is a title given to the Most High God as "the God"
The Greek language always had the definite article τὸν θεόν (tón theón) to provide emphasis. Jesus is never described as τὸν θεόν and there is no other who is equal or co-equal to τὸν θεόν. Also אלהים is the Hebrew term Elohim which is absent from the Greek. John whose name is relatively a new English transliteration of about 500 years never applied τὸν θεόν (tón theón) to the Logos, he withheld it from the Logos.
There is no such scripture that states "Jesus is God". However there are scriptures that state, Jehovah is the God of gods.
- “The God τὸν θεόν of gods אלהים, Jehovah יהוה ! The God τὸν θεόν of gods אלהים, Jehovah יהוה ! He knows, and Israel will also know. If we were rebellious and unfaithful to Jehovah, do not spare us this day. Joshua 22:22
- You must not have any other gods אלהים besides me. Exodus 20:3
- May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah יהוה, You alone are the Most High over all the earth. Psalm 83:18
Jesus was with τὸν θεόν (tón theón) in his beginning being brought forth before the earth ever existed.
John never invoked τὸν θεόν (tón theón) into the third clause of his Book. He withheld that emphasis from the Logos and only applied it to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus in his prayer to his Father states, "You, the τὸν only true God θεόν" not we, me, or us.
σὲ ,
You
τὸν
the
μόνον
only
ἀληθινὸν
TRUE
Θεὸν
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@Brother Rando December 2022 πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν θεόν, καὶ εἰς ἐμὲ πιστεύετε - τὸν θεόν (tón theón) is a title given to the Most High God as "the God"
We agree τὸν θεόν "The God" identifies the Most High God in John 14:1, which is substantially more than a title to me from knowing & experiencing τὸν θεόν ❤️ Love that is wonderfully beyond human words to describe well.
Question remains: Did τὸν θεόν The Most High God make a mistake in this spoken command to followers of יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus:
πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν θεόν, καὶ εἰς ἐμὲ πιστεύετε (John 14:1 Greek spoken by יֵשׁוּעַ ) ?
Be Ye Believing in The אלהים God, also in Me Be Ye Believing
Why did τὸν θεόν The Most High God command followers of יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus to Be Believing in יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus the same as Be Believing in τὸν θεόν The Most High God ?
@Brother Rando December 2022 @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christwho introduces False Reasoning in order to deny JESUS CHRISTPlease remember & respect guidelines for this online discussion => What is Christian Debate ? that include:
Be Agreeable, Even When You Disagree
You may wish to voice a contradictory opinion. That’s fine, but remember to criticize ideas, not people. Please avoid:
* Name-calling
* Ad hominem attacks
* Reacting to a post’s tone rather than responding to its content
Human challenging is respectfully discussing & exploring scripture in a BIBLE QUESTIONS discussion, which includes stubbornly held faith belief ideas. To me, @Brother Rando ad hominem "who introduces False Reasoning in order to deny JESUS CHRIST" describes @Brother Rando reaction to Scripture questions that challenge stubborn JW society faith belief ideas about Michael the archangel. Every human has free will to choose what to ❤️ love most. Numerous Unfulfilled Watch Tower Society predictions provide me reason NOT to trust the human organization. True Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God prophets (communication channels) pass test of 100% accuracy.
@Brother Rando December 2022 Is Melchizedek the Most High God?
Hebrews 5:1-10 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: אלהים as God) =>
For every high priest taken from among men is appointed on behalf of people in the things relating to אלהים God, in order that he can offer both gifts and sacrifices on behalf of sins, being able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and led astray, since he himself also is surrounded by weakness, and because of it he is obligated to offer sacrifices for sins for himself also, as well as for the people. And someone does not take for himself the honor, but is called by אלהים God, just as Aaron also was. Thus also Christ did not glorify himself to become high priest, but the one who said to him,
“You are my Son, today I have begotten you,”
just as also in another place he says,
“You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek,”
who in the days of his flesh offered up both prayers and supplications, with loud crying and tears, to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard as a result of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered, and being perfected, he became the source of eternal salvation to all those who obey him, being designated by אלהים God a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
Does forever (in Hebrews 5:6 & Psalm 110:4) have a beginning ?
@Brother Rando December 2022 What about David and Solomon who sat on the throne of the Most High God? I think not, they are Representatives in the manner that Jesus is God's Personal Representative.
How does the throne on earth compare to the throne in Holy heaven ?
@Brother Rando December 2022 The Greek language always had the definite article τὸν θεόν (tón theón) to provide emphasis. Jesus is never described as τὸν θεόν and there is no other who is equal or co-equal to τὸν θεόν.
The Koine Greek definite article identifies, which is similar to prepositions. Koine Greek word spelling shows grammatical usage, which allows word order arrangement for emphasis: e.g. "... , καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος." "... , and God being was The Word." where the subject "The Word" is placed at the end of the clause for quality emphasis.
@Brother Rando December 2022 There is no such scripture that states "Jesus is God".
We agree scripture does NOT express Sabellianism. The first class for learning Koine Greek in a number of colleges & universities uses a textbook that has John 1:1 explanation in Chapter 6:
Chapter 6
Nominative and Accusative; Article
(First and Second Declension Nouns)
Exegetical Insight
The nominative case is the case that the subject is in. When the subject takes an equative verb like “is” (i.e., a verb that equates the subject with something else), then another noun also appears in the nominative case—the predicate nominative. In the sentence, “John is a man,” “John” is the subject and “man” is the predicate nominative. In English the subject and predicate nominative are distinguished by word order (the subject comes first). Not so in Greek. Since word order in Greek is quite flexible and is used for emphasis rather than for strict grammatical function, other means are used to distinguish subject from predicate nominative. For example, if one of the two nouns has the article, it is the subject.
As we have said, word order is employed especially for the sake of emphasis. Generally speaking, when a word is thrown to the front of the clause it is done so for emphasis. When a predicate nominative is thrown in front of the verb, by virtue of word order it takes on emphasis. A good illustration of this is John 1:1c. The English versions typically have, “and the Word was God.” But in Greek, the word order has been reversed. It reads,
καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος
and God was the Word.
We know that “the Word” is the subject because it has the article, and we translate it accordingly: “and the Word was God.” Two questions, both of theological import, should come to mind: (1) Why was θεός thrown forward? and (2) why does it lack the article?
In brief, its emphatic position stresses its essence or quality: “What God was, the Word was” is how one translation brings out this force. Its lack of the article keeps us from identifying the person of the Word (Jesus Christ) with the person of “God” (the Father). That is to say, the word order tells us that Jesus Christ has all the divine attributes that the Father has; lack of the article tells us that Jesus Christ is not the Father. John’s wording here is beautifully compact! It is, in fact, one of the most elegantly terse theological statements one could ever find. As Martin Luther said, the lack of the article is against Sabellianism; the word order is against Arianism.
To state this another way, look at how the different Greek constructions would be rendered:
καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν ὁ θεός
“and the Word was the God” (i.e., the Father; Sabellianism)
καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν θεός
“and the Word was a god” (Arianism)
καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος
“and the Word was God” (orthodoxy).
Jesus Christ is God and has all the attributes that the Father has. But he is not the first person of the Trinity. All this is concisely affirmed in καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.
Daniel B. Wallace
William D. Mounce, Basics of Biblical Greek Grammar, ed. Verlyn D. Verbrugge and Christopher A. Beetham, Fourth Edition. (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2019), 33–34.
Thus says יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts: “I am the first, and I am the last, and there is no אלהים god besides me. And who is like me? Let him proclaim it! And let him declare it and set it in order for me since I established an eternal people and things that are to come, and let them tell them the things that are coming. You must not tremble, and you must not be paralyzed with fear. Have I not made you hear from of old and declared it, and you are my witnesses? Is there a אלהים god besides me? And there is no rock! I know none!” All those who form an idol are nothing, and their delightful things do not profit. And their witnesses do not see or know, so they will be ashamed.
How can New World Translation (Arianism) of John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." be truthfully consistent with scripture ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6-9 as there is NO god beside יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts). By the way " And who is like me ? " reminded me of "Who is like God ?" (Michael).
@Brother Rando December 2022 Jesus in his prayer to his Father states, "You, the τὸν only true God θεόν" not we, me, or us.
Does third person "Jesus Christ" express "me" in the John 17:3 LEB sentence ? => "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true אלהים God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
John 17:1-26 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: אלהים as God) =>
Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven he said, “Father, the hour has come! Glorify your Son, in order that your Son may glorify you — just as you have given him authority over all flesh, in order that he would give eternal life to them — everyone whom you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true אלהים God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have glorified you on earth by completing the work that you have given me to do. And now, Father, you glorify me at your side with the glory that I had at your side before the world existed. “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word. Now they understand that all the things that you have given me are from you, because the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they received them and know truly that I have come from you, and they have believed that you have sent me. I am asking on behalf of them. I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you have given me, because they are yours, and all my things are yours, and your things are mine, and I have been glorified in them. And I am no longer in the world, and they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given to me, so that they may be one, just as we are. When I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given to me, and guarded them, and none of them has perished except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture would be fulfilled. And now I am coming to you, and I am saying these things in the world so that they may have my joy completed in themselves. I have given them your word, and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth — your word is truth. Just as you sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for them I sanctify myself, so that they themselves also may be sanctified in the truth. “And I do not ask on behalf of these only, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their word, that they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, that they also may be in us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me. And the glory that you have given to me, I have given to them, in order that they may be one, just as we are one — I in them, and you in me, in order that they may be completed in one, so that the world may know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me. “Father, those whom you have given to me — I want that those also may be with me where I am, in order that they may see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. Righteous Father, although the world does not know you, yet I have known you, and these men have come to know that you sent me. And I made known to them your name, and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and I may be in them.”
Did יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus ever speak an untruthful word, which would make יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus & "the only true אלהים God" a liar ?
Who gives eternal life ? What hope can the human Watchtower Society organization give ? Does effort promoting JW publications really matter ?
What is אלהים God's Glory (John 17:5) & אלהים God's ❤️ Love (John 17:24) that יהוה Lord Jesus Christ experienced before Holy אלהים God created physical realm ?
What joy does יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus have that can be completed in believers & followers of יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus ?
Request to keep them in your name is truly consistent with Jeremiah 23:5-6 LEB => “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’
Hebrew noun (construct spelling => of) for righteousness has pronoun, suffixed, 1st person, plural whose literal translation is: 'יהוה Yahweh righteousness of We'
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christwho introduces False Reasoning in order to deny JESUS CHRISTFor every high priest taken from among men is appointed on behalf of people in the things relating to אלהים God, in order that he can offer both gifts and sacrifices on behalf of sins, being able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and led astray, since he himself also is surrounded by weakness, and because of it he is obligated to offer sacrifices for sins for himself also, as well as for the people. And someone does not take for himself the honor, but is called by אלהים God, just as Aaron also was. Thus also Christ did not glorify himself to become high priest, but the one who said to him,
just as also in another place he says,
“You are my Son, today I have begotten yo
who in the days of his flesh offered up both prayers and supplications, with loud crying and tears, to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard as a result of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered, and being perfected, he became the source of eternal salvation to all those who obey him, being designated by אלהים God a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
Claiming Melchizedek is Most high God is in error...
- Thus also Christ did not glorify himself to become high priest, but the one who said to him,
- “You are my Son, today I have begotten you,”
- designated by אלהים God a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
- Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered, and being perfected, he became the source of eternal salvation to all those who obey him,
- ‘Look, I am about to send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21 Be attentive to him and listen to his voice; do not rebel against him, because he will not forgive your transgression, for my name is in him.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christwho introduces False Reasoning in order to deny JESUS CHRISTDoes forever (in Hebrews 5:6 & Psalm 110:4) have a beginning ?
- Yes for Melchizedek was sent first. Jesus would follow the Pattern set and be designated by אלהים God a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
“Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’
Those days came and went 2,000 years ago and the Nation of Israel denied the Messiah and seeked to kill him by telling lies about him. Jesus called them offspring of vipers and hypocrites. The poster refuses to name his religion and continues to hide the trinity he believes in. He is unable and unwilling to believe Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God. (Mathew 16:16)
The High Priest is a mediator between God and the congregation. "Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge—Jesus. He was faithful to the One who appointed him, just as Moses also was in all the house of that One." (Hebrews 3:1-2)
Jesus could say, "You believe in God, also believe in me." After all Jesus was faithful to the One who appointed him, just as Moses also was in all the house of that One." (Hebrews 3:1-2)
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus January 2 Hebrews 5:1-10 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: אלהים as God) =>
For every high priest taken from among men is appointed on behalf of people in the things relating to אלהים God, in order that he can offer both gifts and sacrifices on behalf of sins, being able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and led astray, since he himself also is surrounded by weakness, and because of it he is obligated to offer sacrifices for sins for himself also, as well as for the people. And someone does not take for himself the honor, but is called by אלהים God, just as Aaron also was. Thus also Christ did not glorify himself to become high priest, but the one who said to him,
“You are my Son, today I have begotten you,”
just as also in another place he says,
“You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek,”
who in the days of his flesh offered up both prayers and supplications, with loud crying and tears, to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard as a result of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered, and being perfected, he became the source of eternal salvation to all those who obey him, being designated by אלהים God a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
Puzzled by @Brother Rando false rendering of Hebrews 5:1-10 LEB in quoting:
@Brother Rando January 2 @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christwho introduces False Reasoning in order to deny JESUS CHRISTFor every high priest taken from among men is appointed on behalf of people in the things relating to אלהים God, in order that he can offer both gifts and sacrifices on behalf of sins, being able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and led astray, since he himself also is surrounded by weakness, and because of it he is obligated to offer sacrifices for sins for himself also, as well as for the people. And someone does not take for himself the honor, but is called by אלהים God, just as Aaron also was. Thus also Christ did not glorify himself to become high priest, but the one who said to him,
just as also in another place he says,
“You are my Son, today I have begotten yo
who in the days of his flesh offered up both prayers and supplications, with loud crying and tears, to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard as a result of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered, and being perfected, he became the source of eternal salvation to all those who obey him, being designated by אלהים God a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
Curious about False Rendering of scripture translation by @Brother Rando ?
Psalm 109:4 LXX => Σὺ εἶ ἱερεὺς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα κατὰ τὴν τάξιν Μελχισέδεκ.
You be priest to the forever according to the order of/from Melchizedek
Hebrews 5:6 SBLGNT => Σὺ ἱερεὺς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα κατὰ τὴν τάξιν Μελχισέδεκ
You priest to the forever according to the order of/from Melchizedek
To me, the Hebrews 5:6 quote of LXX Psalm 109:4 without a verb expresses forever timelessness (similar to Hebrew verbless clauses).
@Brother Rando January 2 Claiming Melchizedek is Most high God is in error...
Hebrews 6:13-7:28 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
For when God made a promise to Abraham, since he had no one greater to swear by, he swore by himself, saying,
“Surely I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply you.”
And so, by persevering, he obtained the promise. For people swear by what is greater than themselves, and the oath for confirmation is the end of all dispute for them. In the same way אלהים God, because he wanted to show even more to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of his resolve, guaranteed it with an oath, in order that through two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for אלהים God to lie, we who have taken refuge may have powerful encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us, which we have like an anchor of the soul, both firm and steadfast, and entering into the inside of the curtain, where Jesus, the forerunner for us, entered, because he became a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high אלהים God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth of everything — in the first place, his name is translated “king of righteousness,” and then also “king of Salem,” that is, “king of peace”; without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of אלהים God — he remains a priest for all time.
But see how great this man was, to whom Abraham the patriarch gave a tenth from the spoils! And indeed those of the sons of Levi who receive the priesthood have a commandment to collect a tenth from the people according to the law, that is, from their brothers, although they are descended from Abraham. But the one who did not trace his descent from them collected tithes from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises. Now without any dispute the inferior is blessed by the more prominent. And in this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case it is testified that he lives. And, so to speak, even Levi, the one who receives tithes, has paid tithes through Abraham. For he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.
Thus if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood, for on the basis of it the people received the law, what further need is there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek and not said to be according to the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood changes, of necessity there is a change of the law also. For the one about whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe from which no one has officiated at the altar. For it is evident that our יהוה Lord is a descendant of Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses said nothing concerning priests. And it is still more clear, if another priest according to the likeness of Melchizedek arises, who has become a priest not according to a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. For it is testified,
“You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.”
For on the one hand a preceding commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness (for the law made nothing perfect), but on the other hand there is the introduction of a better hope through which we draw near to אלהים God. And by as much as this was not without an oath (for these on the one hand have become priests without an oath, but he with an oath by the one who said to him,
“The יהוה Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, ‘You are a priest forever’ ”),
by so much more Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
And indeed many have become priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, but he, because he continues forever, holds the priesthood permanently. Therefore also he is able to save completely those who draw near to God through him, because he always lives in order to intercede on their behalf.
For a high priest such as this indeed is fitting for us, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, and having become exalted above the heavens, who does not need every day like the former high priests to offer up sacrifices for his own sins and then for the sins of the people, because he did this once for all when he offered up himself. For the law appoints men as high priests who have weakness, but the statement of the oath, after the law, appoints a Son, who is made perfect forever.
What is the forever (all time) relationship of Melchizedek, "King Righteous", Most high God, & יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus (יהוה Salvation) ?
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christwho introduces False Reasoning in order to deny JESUS CHRISTFor this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high אלהים God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth of everything — in the first place, his name is translated “king of righteousness,” and then also “king of Salem,” that is, “king of peace”; without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of אלהים God — he remains a priest for all time.
Melchizedek is not the Most High God, neither is Jesus Christ the Most High God. If Melchizedek is King of Salem, and King of Righteous or King of Peace that means he remains a priest for all time then resembling the Son of God.
Your argument is that Melchizedek is God. Even your quote proves your faith is full of hypocrisy. You claimed in the pass, that Mary is a Goddess, and that she is the Mother of God. Yet the Bible gives us Jesus genealogy on both sides, Joseph and Mary.
When you use the name of Jesus, it is only to try to defame his Father's Name. And when did Jesus to those defaming him and his Father? Didn't Jesus say Hallow the Father's Name?
- “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will." Matthew 7:21
- How is it you claim Jesus is the Son of God but has No FATHER or genealogy?
Wouldn't Jesus have his Father's Name in him? Exodus 23:20-21 Jesus when translated means "Jehovah is Salvation" Even the name Jesus bares witness against you, for you reject Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God. You therefore also reject Jehovah as his God and Father.
Yeshua when translated means "Yahweh is Salvation". (Exodus 23:20-21)
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@Brother Rando January 2 @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christwho introduces False Reasoning in order to deny JESUS CHRISTFor this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high אלהים God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth of everything — in the first place, his name is translated “king of righteousness,” and then also “king of Salem,” that is, “king of peace”; without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of אלהים God — he remains a priest for all time.
@Brother Rando January 2 Melchizedek is not the Most High God, neither is Jesus Christ the Most High God. If Melchizedek is King of Salem, and King of Righteous or King of Peace that means he remains a priest for all time then resembling the Son of God.
Curious about @Brother Rando opinion of Hebrews 7:1-3 in the New World Translation =>
7 For this Mel·chizʹe·dek, king of Saʹlem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,+ 2 and Abraham gave* him a tenth of everything. First, his name is translated “King of Righteousness,” and then also king of Saʹlem, that is, “King of Peace.” 3 In being fatherless, motherless, without genealogy, having neither a beginning of days nor an end of life, but being made like the Son of God, he remains a priest for all time.*+
@Brother Rando January 2 Your argument is that Melchizedek is God. Even your quote proves your faith is full of hypocrisy.
My faith believes scripture expresses eternal truth about The Most High Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God, which needs Psalm 119:18 prayers for comprehension.
Looking back in this lengthy discussion found a previous claim first stated by @Brother Rando on July 23, 2022 on Page 21
@Brother Rando July 23, 2022 Your Catholic faith is false, teaching Mary is a Goddess as the Mother of God.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 28, 2022 Again your words are your own, which has false assertions about me.
@Brother Rando January 2 You claimed in the pass, that Mary is a Goddess, and that she is the Mother of God.
What is @Brother Rando purpose of repeating false testimony about me ?
Exodus 20:16 LEB => “You shall not testify against your neighbor with a false witness.
Deuteronomy 5:20 LEB => ‘And you shall not falsely bear evidence against your neighbor.
@Brother Rando January 2 When you use the name of Jesus, it is only to try to defame his Father's Name. And when did Jesus to those defaming him and his Father? Didn't Jesus say Hallow the Father's Name?
What does false testimony reputation reflect about Most High Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God personal faith belief ?
My forever best friend & redeemer יהוה Hosts = יהוה Salvation = יֵשׁ֔וּעַ Yeshua = Jesus can forgive sin if a human wants to repent from their sin against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God, believe יֵשׁ֔וּעַ Yeshua is יהוה Lord & receive the free ❤️ love gift from Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. To me, יהוה Hosts humbly left Holy Heaven to be clothed in human flesh as The Son of אלהים God & The Son of Man, who is King Righteous (Melchizedek).
@Brother Rando January 2 How is it you claim Jesus is the Son of God but has No FATHER or genealogy
Revelation 22:16 LEB => “I, Jesus, sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
To me, the root of David has No FATHER or genealogy (humanly I do not know how Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God came to be while I am amazed by astonishing attention to detail by Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God, who truly knows every person alive today along with Holy purpose for each life). The descendant of David has a physical human genealogy for an eternal Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God spiritual portion, who humbly left Holy Heaven to be clothed in human flesh (the seed of a woman).
Wow for me thinking about Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God breathing life into dust, which included an egg in the virgin Mary to become the Holy human flesh for an eternal Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God spiritual portion. Thankfully יהוה Salvation lived a sinless human life so He could become the substitutionary sin sacrifice for every human, which is effective for eternal life for those who want to repent from sin against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God to keep believing & trusting Holy King Righteous Jesus is יהוה Lord. Every human has free will to choose what to ❤️ love most, which shows in words and actions. Our spiritual adversary always wants to disrupt ❤️ loving Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God the most so spiritual warfare is constant for every believer. Humanly I want to respond like righteous Mary after hearing Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God => So Mary said, “Behold, the יהוה Lord’s female slave! May it happen to me according to your word.” (Luke 1:38 LEB) Also I desire to be like righteous Joseph, who had mercy & compassion for pregnant Mary before an angel appeared to Joseph in a dream.
@Brother Rando January 2 Wouldn't Jesus have his Father's Name in him?
Yes for King Righteous Jesus intimately sharing eternal Holy יהוה name as it is written in Jeremiah 23:5-6 LEB => “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’
Hebrew noun (construct spelling => of) for righteousness has pronoun, suffixed, 1st person, plural whose literal translation is: 'יהוה Yahweh righteousness of We'
@Brother Rando January 2 Yeshua when translated means "Yahweh is Salvation".
We agree Yeshua = יהוה Salvation.
@Brother Rando January 2 Even the name Jesus bares witness against you, for you reject Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God. You therefore also reject Jehovah as his God and Father.
Humanly is easier to see personal sin in someone else as described in Matthew 7:1-5 LEB =>
“Do not judge, so that you will not be judged. For by what judgment you judge, you will be judged, and by what measure you measure out, it will be measured out to you. And why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the beam of wood in your own eye? Or how will you say to your brother, ‘Allow me to remove the speck from your eye,’ and behold, the beam of wood is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the beam of wood from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye!
Hence to me, @Brother Rando words about me is really describing @Brother Rando.
And יהוה said to Moses ... Exodus 23:20-23 NWT online =>
20 “I am sending an angel ahead of you+ to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared.+ 21 Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions,+ because my name is in him. 22 However, if you strictly obey his voice and do all that I say, I will show hostility to your enemies and oppose those who oppose you. 23 For my angel will go ahead of you and will bring you to the Amʹor·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hiʹvites, and the Jebʹu·sites, and I will annihilate them.
When were the Amʹor·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hiʹvites, and the Jebʹu·sites annihilated ?
What is the modern relevance of the angel sent by יהוה to guard Jewish people on the way from Egypt to the promised land thousands of years ago ?
Keep Smiling 😊
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DID you not list the names of FASLE GODS, the sons of Israel, idolatry attaching them to gods אלהים elohim ?
"There shall be for you no other gods אלהים elohim before me." Exodus 20:3
All of Creation whether it is Firstborn of All Creation is not to be placed before JEHOVAH. If the Bright Morning Star is God then you must also claim that morning stars are gods. (Job 38:7 & (Rev 1:20)
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus (so your earlier assertion 'the Hebrew word אלהים (plural) is nominative not accusative.' is factually false).
@Brother Rando So how are false gods, sons of Israel, and idolatry accusative and co-equal to God? When the scripures state what not to? "There shall be for you no other gods אלהים elohim before me." Exodus 20:3
20 “I am sending an angel ahead of you+ to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared.+ 21 Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions,+ because my name is in him. 22 However, if you strictly obey his voice and do all that I say, I will show hostility to your enemies and oppose those who oppose you. 23 For my angel will go ahead of you and will bring you to the Amʹor·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hiʹvites, and the Jebʹu·sites, and I will annihilate them.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christwho introduces False Reasoning in order to deny JESUS CHRISTWhen were the Amʹor·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hiʹvites, and the Jebʹu·sites annihilated ?
The Nation of Israel refused to OBEY the angel, that spiritual rock that saved them: "Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions,+ because my name is in him."
"10 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under athe cloud, all passed through bthe sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same cspiritual food, 4 and all drank the same dspiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies ewere scattered in the wilderness.
6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as fthey also lusted. 7 gAnd do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, h“The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” 8 iNor let us commit sexual immorality, as jsome of them did, and kin one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us 1tempt Christ, as lsome of them also tempted, and mwere destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as nsome of them also complained, and owere destroyed by pthe destroyer. 11 Now 2all these things happened to them as examples, and qthey were written for our 3admonition, rupon whom the ends of the ages have come." (1 Cor 10:1-11)
Same thing coming today in the end of the age...
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Thanks for calling out the ad hominems and name calling, and sorry I've been slow to respond. Please be more respectful with each other, and remember if you use ad hominems that signifies that there are no real arguments.
Happy new year to all!
