A TEXT-BASED discussion of the Trinity
Comments
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But #4 denies Jesus.
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I believe that the Bible teaches that Jesus was a human being.
I believe that the Bible does not teach that humans live as spirit beings somewhere before conception and birth.
I believe that the Bible is very clear about the beginning of Jesus with conception and birth (cp. Mat 1:18ff ).
I believe that Jesus therefore did not live as a spirit being like God or angels before his conception and birth..
Not at all ... #4 is axiomatic from points #1-#3.
Prove from text that these points #1 - #3 are false ... for example, show that Mat 1:18 does not say what I understand it to say; show us text that Jesus was not a human being (since there a quite a number which plainly say that he was a man), etc... Don't come and claim texts which do not say what you claim and where you then interpret them to mean something which would contradict the plain truths stated above in #1 - #3 points.
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I don't understand what you're asking.
I quoted Jesus as telling his Father that he had a glory with Him before the world was.
Are you saying he was HUMAN before being SENT as a human?
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I quoted Jesus as telling his Father that he had a glory with Him before the world was.
Yes ... and how did the Messiah have glory with God before the world was? I suggest it was in accordance with what is stated in 1Pe 1:20 (i.e. Messiah existed in God's foreknowledge, but did not exist as a living being until he was conceived and born in the fulness of time --Gal 4:4).
As an illustration for something concerning a person already existing before their conception and birth I then mentioned that my children already had a successful education "with me" - that is, in my thoughts, plans for them) before they lived.
Are you saying he was HUMAN before being SENT as a human?
No .... neither did he live as a spirit being before being sent by God (just as John the baptist was not a spirit being before he was sent by God)
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Quite an Imagination you have, totally unfounded in scripture.
I would refer to many scripture, but would be warped by it.
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where is your objective reply showing why and where my reasoning is unscriptural ? are you afraid to refer to scriptures because it might turn out that YOUR INTERPRETATION of those scriptures is inconsistent and perhaps wrong?
Do you believe that your current interpretation of Scripture IS what Scripture says? or do you consider the possibility that your current interpretation of Scripture actually is nothing more than your interpretation and as such could be inaccurate (just as is the case with anyone else's interpretation)?
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Your own case.
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are you really trying to disqualify yourself from having exchanges with others here?
I am beginning to see why perhaps you have been thrown out in other forums ... could it have been because you are not interested in exchange with others but in pushing your doctrines down other people's throats?
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No, with you.
I have no wish to offend you, you seem like a nice guy.
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I am a nice guy ... who does NOT AT ALL appreciate the type of "preaching demeanor" folks like you display, giving false impression of wanting exchange but then refusing to enter into an exchange.
I am done with you.
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I take it BACK.
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Even CHURCH-GOERS acknowledge Jesus had a previous life. And Wolfgang keeps egging me on!
Keep on Egging, it brings to mind Jesus admonition to "don't cast your pearls before_"...
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Heb 1:1- In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; 2- but in these last days he has spoken to us by a son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3- He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.
God created the world thu His son.
Now, WHEN did that happen?
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