Jesus ? "Not God" ? Savior ?
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If truly Jesus is יהוה Lord, would Lord יהוה Jesus be Righteously angry with one teaching Jesus cannot be Holy יהוה God ?
If truly a cat is a dog, would the cat be righteously angry with someone saying that a cat cannot be a dog?
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus If truly Jesus is יהוה Lord, would Lord יהוה Jesus be Righteously angry with one teaching Jesus cannot be Holy יהוה God ?
@Wolfgang If truly a cat is a dog, would the cat be righteously angry with someone saying that a cat cannot be a dog?
Logos Bible Software search for cat WITHIN 7 WORDS dog WITHIN 12 WORDS truly found these words in two sermons by C.H. Spurgeon.
Ordered Steps (No. 2,487) about Psalm 119:133 includes cat, dog, & truly in point II:
II. Now, secondly, I call your attention to the careful watchfulness of this prayer, the detailed watchfulness of it: “Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.”
You see that the psalmist enters into detail when he presents this petition; he does not say merely, “Order my life,” but, “Order my steps.” Godly men desire to be kept right by God even in the little things of life. It is often in little things, such as steps, rather than in long periods of running, that the good or the evil may be most plainly seen. Blessed is that man to whom there exists no such thing as a trifle, who desires to serve God even in the jots and tittles, for he shall not fall by little and little, as so many have done. He shall not have grey hairs upon him here and there, and yet not know it, for his careful watchfulness shall enable him to detect the slightest deflection from the right way, and so shall he be able to hold to the straight path of integrity. Brethren, the old proverb is, “Take care of the pence, and the pounds will take care of themselves,” which I will translate into the language of our text, “Take care of the steps, and the day’s walking, as a whole, will take care of itself.” True Christians want the Lord to bless them in everything, ay, even in those plain and simple words which drop from their lips almost without a thought. We do more wrong, perhaps, by want of thought than by any will to do evil; and hence the necessity of crying to God, “Order my steps; take care of the little things in my life, that I sin not against thee.”
“Order my steps.” That prayer means, “Order my ordinary daily life.” Do not many think that religion is only something for Sundays? They put it on with their best hat, and put it away when they put that hat into the box. Believe me, that the religion which is taken up only once a week, and dropped during the rest of the week, is neither fit to live with nor to die with. It is like a bad bank-note; if you find such a counterfeit, you had better lay it down, and run away from it, and not let anyone suspect that it ever belonged to you.
True godliness concerns the ordinary actions of daily life. Do not tell me what you can say at a prayer-meeting. What do you do in the parlour? What do you do in the kitchen? How do you behave yourself to your wife? How do you act towards your children? “He is a very good man,” said one to me, “he is a very good man indeed, but his children are all afraid of him.” “Then,” I thought, “he is not a good man, but a very bad man indeed.” I could not conceive him to be good, I would rather believe Rowland Hill’s saying that a man was not truly converted if his cat and his dog were not the better off for it. It ought to be a blessing, and it must be a blessing to everybody round about him, if the grace of God enters into his soul. “Order my steps in thy word,” means, “Help me to turn the common actions of my ordinary life into a hallowed service.” When I put on my weekday clothes, may I be even as when a priest in the olden time put on his holy vestments, and ministered before the Lord, and may everything that I do be the exercise of a sacred priesthood unto the living God! The apostle Peter’s exhortation is still in force, “As he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation.” So are Paul’s injunctions, “Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God;” “and whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.”
Thus, the watchfulness included in the text concerns the little things and the ordinary things of our lives; and following the psalmist’s example, we shall especially pray about all our advances. It is by steps that we go forward. This is the age of progress; everybody is crying out, “Forward!” Well, then, here is a prayer for those who wish to progress wisely: “O Lord, order my steps in thy word! So shall my progress be a progress toward thyself, a progress within the compass of thy sacred truth.” He who outruns Scripture will have to come back again; he who goes beyond the boundaries of the right road will lose his way, and the more progress he makes the greater will be the distance that he will have to return if he is to reach his journey’s end in peace. Pray this prayer, young man, if you want to be safe, “O Lord, order my steps in thy word!” There is great temptation, nowadays, to take up with anything that is new. A man buttonholes you, and tells you of a new discovery that he has made; well, hear what he has to say if you think well. “Prove all things,” but, “hold fast that which is good;” and be this your continual prayer, that your steps, when you take any steps, may always be ordered according to the Word of God. “Well,” says one, “you tie us up pretty tightly.” No, my friend, I do not want to tie you up at all, you can roam where you like; but I know that the tighter I am tied, the better it is for me, and the happier I am. There is a prayer in the 118th Psalm which I like always to pray, “Bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.” Lord, hold me fast from morning till night, and through the night as well; I long that thou shouldst fill my very dreams with thoughts of thee! Lord, bind me fast both winter and summer, and every day in the year; I would not have a single hour in which thou didst not order me and command me! Lord, bind me as to every step I take, and every advance I make, for where may I not go if I ever advance beyond thy Word, and what can be good for me if thou dost not count it good, and what wilt thou withhold from me if it be really good for me?
So I commend this prayer to you, dwelling much on these two points,—first, complete subservience to the divine will, and then, careful watchfulness about all the details of your life. Only turn them both into prayers; do not say, “I am going to order my steps.” Are you? Do not say, “I am going to obey God in everything.” Are you? This holy road is not fit for such feet as yours while you talk like that; until you are shod with a simple dependence upon God, you will never take to this narrow way; and unless the Lord holds you up in it, you will soon either fall in it or fall from it. So make no resolutions in your own strength, but offer the praver of our text in the name of Jesus, and the Lord will hear you.
C. H. Spurgeon, “Ordered Steps,” in The Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit Sermons, vol. 42 (London: Passmore & Alabaster, 1896), 496–497.
Thankful for C. H. Spurgeon's questions helping my step wise journey to Be Holy as God is Holy ❤️
Joy in God (No. 2550) includes cat, dog, & truly in point I:
I. First, then, What is joy in God?
Now, my dear friends. I have before me a topic which far exceeds my ability. I get out of my depth when I have such a question as this to answer, “What is joy in God?” I shall be like the swallow, that but touches the brook with its wing, and then is up and away again; I can do no more than skim the surface of the subject, but I know that there is, to the believer, a joy, first, in the very fact that there is a God. To the ungodly man, it would be a great delight if it could be proved that there is no God. When he is at all serious, and thinks upon the great problems which concern his own state, he is troubled with the thought of God; for, if there be a God, then sin must be punished. If there be a God, then a life spent in neglect of him must entail, somehow or other, chastisement and sorrow. The worldling would be glad if he could be thoroughly well assured that the idea of God is “a mere bugbear of priests to keep men in terror,” as some say. There is a something within a man that makes him feel and know that the world must have had a Maker. If it is so full of intelligence, a Someone, by his intelligence, superior to all the intelligence of mankind, must have made it; and the man gets troubled as he remembers that he has lived so many years, and yet has forgotten his Maker, and broken his laws. But the child of God, the regenerate man, who feels within him the nature of God and kinship to the Most High, could not bear the idea of there being no God. Atheism is a black Egyptian night to a soul that once has known God. If we ever come to have joy in him, anything which robs him of his glory makes us grieve; but to prove that there is no God, would be to prove that we are orphans, it would prove to us our everlasting poverty and wretchedness. It would be to us an infinite catastrophe if we could ever be convinced that there is no God. Happily, we have no fear of any such a calamity; we delight to know that there is a God, and that God is everywhere. Our highest joys are experienced when we are in his most immediate presence; and if we ever do anything which we should not do if we were conscious of his presence, we know that it is wrong, and we have to grieve for doing it. But when we live as in his sight, when we truly walk with God, then we live like Enoch, who “had this testimony, that he pleased God.” Then do we realize the truest form of happiness and joy. So, first, we have joy even in the fact that there is a God.
But we have joy, most of all, in the knowledge that this everlasting God has become our Father. We take no delight in the universal fatherhood which comes of creation; that is a poor thing, and belongs as much to dogs and cats as it does to us, for they are as truly created by God as we are; and that sort of fatherhood, of which I hear men talk, which is the portion of those who blaspheme God, and live in utter rebellion against him, is not that of which the apostle wrote: “If children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ.” Sirs, until God renews your nature, you are children of the wicked one, and not children of the Most High; neither have you any right to talk about the fatherhood of God towards you. “Ye must be born again;” and only when you are born again, and have believed in Christ, are you God’s children, for “as many as received him, to them gave he power”—the right, or privilege,—“to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” But that fatherhood which comes of the spirit of adoption within you, because you have been born into the family of God,—in this you may indeed rejoice. Now, can you not, and must you not, if you have believed in Christ. joy in God as you feel that he is, through his abounding grace, your Father? Whatever he does, he is your Father. When he smiles upon you, he is your Father. If he frowned upon you, he would still be your Father. I have told you before what the old Welsh preacher answered when his friend said to him, “While you are preaching, this morning, may you have the smile of God resting upon you!” “Yea,” he replied, “my dear brother, I hope that I shall have it; but if I do not have the light of God’s countenance, I will speak well of him behind his back.” So we should; when we do not have the Lord smiling upon us, we should speak well of him behind his back. Let us be resolved to say with Job, “Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him.” If he should take away every comfort which I have, I am so persuaded that it will be a Father’s love that will dictate the action that I will still praise him, and magnify him, do what he may. It is joy indeed when you can say that, if the Lord is strong, he is strong for you; if he is wise, he is wise for you; if he is unchangeable, he is unchangeable to you; and whatever he is, and whatever he possesses, he has made himself over to you to be your possession, saying, “I will be their God, and they shall be my people.” This, then, is joying in God,—first rejoicing that there is a God, and then delighting in him as our Father.
When we once reach this point, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we rejoice in every attribute of God, we delight in him as he is revealed. I fear me that, in these days, many men are very busy trying to construct a god for themselves, such as they think God ought to be; and it generally turns out that they fashion a god like themselves, for that saying of the psalmist concerning idols and idol-makers is still true, “They that make them are like unto them, so is every one that trusteth in them.” These modern manufacturers of gods make them blind because they are themselves blind, and deaf because they are deaf, and dead because they are spiritually dead. No, beloved, there is no God but the God revealed in Holy Scripture, the God of Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, the God and Father of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ; and the excogitation of another godhead, which has been the business of the sages of the present day, is all a mistake and a delusion. God can only be seen in his own light. He must be his own Revealer: and no man can know God except God shall reveal himself unto him.
I trust that many of us can say that we do rejoice in God as we find him in the Scriptures. Some quarrel with God as a Sovereign, and no doctrine makes them grind their teeth like the glorious truth of divine sovereignty. They profess to want a god, but he must not be on a throne; ha must not be King, he must not be absolute and universal Monarch; he must do as his creatures tell him, not as he himself wills. I adore that God who says, “I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” Such a God as he is needs no limitation; let him do as he wills, for it is not possible that he should will to do anything that is unjust or unholy. Let us joy and rejoice in him as an unlimited Sovereign.
Then let us rejoice in him as perfectly holy. The holiness of God is an attribute that may well fill us with awe; to the eyes of ungodly men, it shines like “the terrible crystal” of which Ezekiel speaks, but, in the Word of God, whenever the song rises higher than usual, you will generally find that it is a hymn in praise of the holy God. Yea, this is the song of heaven: “They rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.” The wholeness of the divine nature is seen in his holiness; there is in him no defect, no excess, he is altogether just such as a holy soul must delight in.
I trust also, dear friends, that you and I can joy in God as to his justice. The justice of God makes men dread him till they become his children. There are some, to-day, who pretend to preach the gospel, and who really are preaching “another gospel: which is not another;” and they try to set forth the littleness of sin, and as for the justice of God it seems to be ignored by them. Their effeminate deity is not worthy to be known by the name of God; but our God is terrible in his justice, and he will by no means clear the guilty; and conscience tells every man this. But the believer in Jesus, when he sees what God did that justice might be satisfied, and that love might freely flow to the unworthy,—when he beholds Christ crucified, the great Father piercing his Son with sharpest smart that he might justly put away the sin of his people, then he comes to delight in God’s justice. Instead of threatening him, God’s justice becomes the guardian of his salvation with a drawn sword protecting him from condemnation. Happy is the man who can say of every attribute of God that he adores it, the man who would not have turned back at the Red Sea, and refused to sing unto the Lord who had triumphed gloriously in his righteous vengeance upon the ungodly. Bow your heads before God as he is, as he declares himself to be in his own Word; for if you do not, you are not reconciled to him; but if you are truly reconciled to him, you will accept him without question in all those points that seem dark and mysterious; you will believe those doctrines which sometimes grate upon the ear as you hear of them, and you will say, “Though I cannot understand, I adore; and where I tremble before the Lord, so that the joints of my bones are loosed, and I fall prostrate at his feet, yet even in those dread mysteries I feel that I love and I joy in God.”
Beloved brothers and sisters, what a blessed and transcendent joy this joy in the Lord is! Sometimes you joy in your children; yet they die, and then you sorrow. At other times, you rejoice in those who are grown up and are prospering; but perhaps they treat you with ingratitude, and then again your joy is gone. You joy in your health, and that is a great blessing; but you sicken, and your joy departs. Some rejoice in their riches; but wealth takes to itself wings, and flies away. You may joy in a choice friend, but after a while you may be forsaken and forgotten. You may joy, perhaps, in past achievements, and there may come to you a joy in your prospects for the future; but there is no joy equal to joy in God. Suppose I have nothing in the house but God; suppose there is nothing for me to rely upon but God, nothing that I can call my own but God: well, is that a little thing? Are not all creatures but the visions of an hour? But the Creator is the substantial all in all; so that he who has God has all that he can possibly need. God, to his people, is the fulness out of which all their wants shall be supplied. What a mercy it is that, when we can joy in nothing else, we can joy in God! We can joy in his power, for he can help us. We can joy in his faithfulness, for he cannot fail us. We can joy in his immutability, for he changes not, and therefore we are not consumed. We can joy in every thought that we have of him, for altogether and observed from every point of view, he is the delight of his people.
Well now, dear friends, if we have come as far as that, we can also say that we joy in God in all his dealings with us. “That is hard work,” says one. But when you perfectly joy in God, you joy in everything that he does. Suppose you had a dear friend, who came to your house, and suppose you should say to him, “Anything that there is, you may enjoy, or you may take. I will give you anything you can ask for or desire. I owe my life and all my prosperity to you.” Well, if you did miss this and that of your treasures which you might like to have retained, when you heard that your friend had them, you would be quite content. According to that good old parable, when the master went into the garden, and took a very choice rose, the gardener did not trouble himself at the loss of it when he knew who had plucked it. He was so glad that the master admired it, that he could even rejoice that it had gone. Now, dear friends, can you not get to this point, that, if the Lord brings you comforts, you will not rejoice in them so much as in himself who brings them? You say that you can get as far as that; but if the Lord takes away your comforts, can you come to this point, that you will not sorrow over them, but that you will joy in him who took them away? The drops are gone; yes, but there is the fountain always flowing. Though the sunbeam be hidden from your eye, the sun is always shining. Wherefore, always rejoice in God, your all in all, and say, “Yes, I will rejoice in all his dealings with me.” Looking back on the whole of my own life, I desire to bless God for everything that he has ever done for me. I desire to praise him for every cut of the rod, for every blow of the hammer, for every melting in the furnace, for the crucible and the burning heat. Everything has commenced, and continued, and concluded as it ought to do, according to his infinite love and wisdom; and I therefore joy in all that God does to me, and bless his holy name.
Then I think that we also learn to joy in all God’s requirements of us, and in all his teachings. In all that he tells us, and in all that he reveals to us of the world to come, we learn to joy in God. Thus, as I told you, I have only touched the surface of this great subject; I pray the Holy Spirit to reveal to you all that there is in the blessed Trinity in which we can rejoice. This God is our God; and he has said, “Delight thyself also in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.” There is no fear of your delighting too much in him, so let your hearts be filled with joy. Take down your harps from the willows, and touch every string with sacred delight as you joy in God.
C. H. Spurgeon, “Joy in God,” in The Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit Sermons, vol. 44 (London: Passmore & Alabaster, 1898), 4–8.
Thankful for all aspects of Holy Righteous Fruit: "Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Humility, Self-Control" being like C. H. Spurgeon's swallow description that touches the brook with its wing then is flying up and away again (easy to type aspect descriptive words, but beyond my human ability to truly describe).
Thankful for John 10:10 reminder today ❤️ life in full measure includes abundant Holy Righteous Fruit 🙏
Keep Smiling 😊
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Logos Bible Software search for cat WITHIN 7 WORDS dog WITHIN 12 WORDS truly found these words in two sermons by C.H. Spurgeon.
?????? do you know what you are doing?? not sure, if you do ....
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus If truly Jesus is יהוה Lord, would Lord יהוה Jesus be Righteously angry with one teaching Jesus cannot be Holy יהוה God ?
@Wolfgang If truly a cat is a dog, would the cat be righteously angry with someone saying that a cat cannot be a dog?
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Logos Bible Software search for cat WITHIN 7 WORDS dog WITHIN 12 WORDS truly found these words in two sermons by C.H. Spurgeon.
@Wolfgang ?????? do you know what you are doing?? not sure, if you do ....
Thankful for my father-in-law's attitude: ask a silly question, get a silly answer. After a stroke paralyzed his left side, people would ask him:
"How's it going ?"
"Terrible" (with a straight face in his wheelchair so looked & sounded serious)
"What's wrong ?"
He would Smile 😍 (so both knew "Terrible" had been a joke) Laughter is good medicine when everyone is laughing 😋
Thankful for cat and dog question causing me to Smile 😍 so wondered if cat & dog appeared in a Bible Verse ? No. Hence, searched all resources in my Logos library, which found two edifying sermon segments that relate to truly believing Jesus is יהוה Lord. First sermon segment included sentence: "I would rather believe Rowland Hill’s saying that a man was not truly converted if his cat and his dog were not the better off for it." includes reference to Rowland Hill, which is in The New Encyclopedia of Christian Quotations:
Nobody is truly Christian unless his cat or dog is the better off for it.
Rowland Hill
Mark Water, The New Encyclopedia of Christian Quotations (Alresford, Hampshire: John Hunt Publishers Ltd, 2000), 51.
Cats look different than dogs (so your reply '?????? do you know what you are doing?? not sure, if you do ....' crossed my mind about your question).
Lord יהוה Jesus knew humans who saw Lord יהוה Jesus had seen Lord יהוה Father (John 14:1-14).
Keep Smiling 😊
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Intensive study, asking the Spirit to guide me, soon exposed that Jesus was not God?
Care to hear my scripture support?
Most forums BAN me for saying something against the Trinity, when it in no WAY was taught by Jesus, whom we are supposed to be following!
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@theMadJW posted:
Most forums BAN me for saying something against the Trinity, when it in no WAY was taught by Jesus, whom we are supposed to be following!
Welcome to the CD forums, from which you certainly will not be banned for saying something against the Trinity. As you will undoubtedly note when you review our threads, two subject areas abound here: social/political people and policy (e.g. the COVID pandemic, presidential leadership, guns, and abortion) and the Trinity. I say with great confidence that you won't be banned because of your views on the Trinity because, again as you will note when you review the threads, there are other posters (of whom I am one) who dispute the existence of a Trinity, or more precisely, they/I dispute the divinity of Christ. So you and your views are welcome here.
Just know that there are other posters who equally passionately and in good faith believe in the Trinity and the divinity of Christ. In accordance with the founding expectations of these forums, we are free to disagree with each other's logic, reasoning, and conclusions, but we are not free - in fact, we are expected NOT - to dismiss, diminish, or criticize each other personally.
Bottom line: Welcome to the forums. I hope you will share your ideas. Expect some of us to agree with you. Expect others of us to disagree with you. And expect that we will respect your views - as we expect you to respect ours - even when we don't agree.
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Bill, I luvya!
A HONEST forum!I thought such a thing didn't exist on the Net!
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Jehovah ( https://religionnews.com/2018/01/25/the-original-hebrew-name-of-god-re-discovered-in-1000-bible-manuscripts/ ) at first, only gave prophecies about this messiah.
God is NO WAY was represented as 'Three-in-One' (no reference to "Them", only "He").
Isa 9, Dan 2 & 7- are examples of Jehovah GIVING us the Christ, not BECOMING him.
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Do you feel like you can't go on?
There are times when we have felt that today would be our last, thinking tomorrow would never come. Anxieties of Life can weigh heavy on our Mental Health. Would you believe that you can find the Answers in the Bible to WHY you feel the way you do?
Please read the following scriptures. (2 Timothy 3:1-5) Did you notice the first verse reads, '...in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here'? This allotment of time is a Conclusion of a System of things. This time period of distress pangs is known as the Last Days. It's not the end of the world, but rather the end of wickedness that permeates the world of mankind, righteous and unrighteous alike. This time period will soon come to an end. These anxieties you feel today will evaporate and dissolve for those who become survivors of the Last Days. Notice the instruction of what to do in 2 Timothy 3:2-5? It says, '...and from these turn away.'
The scriptures provide a roadmap for certain ones to escape the time of distress. "During that time {Jesus Christ} will stand up, the Great Prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time..." But notice the ending of this verse. "And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book." (Daniel 12:1)
Remember, "Bad associations spoil useful habits." (1 Corinthians 15:33) "Now, O Israel, what is Jehovah your God asking of you? Only this: to fear Jehovah your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul," (Deut 10:12) "At that time those who fear Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. And a book of remembrance was written before him for those fearing Jehovah and for those meditating on his Name." (Malachi 3:16)
The Bible tells us, "Jehovah is close to the brokenhearted; He saves those who are crushed in spirit." (Psalm 34:18) Also, we have a helper in the His Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ whom states, "Come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh you." (Mat 11:28)
Would you like to be a Survivor of the Last Days?
- Accept a Free Bible Study from God's Chosen People
- Stop doing what is bad and turn to doing what is good
- Share this Blog Post on your social media and save lives
Articles that may interest you:
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1 (800) 273-8255
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According to the search I conducted, you've now posted this information directed at persons who are struggling with anxiety and other forms of life challenge in four different threads, three of which have no connection to its subject matter. Can you explain for me why you decided to post this information in ANY thread other its first home, the thread whose title, "Don't give up, You have a reason to keep on living... You are Worth Saving!," confirms that the post is on-topic?
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@BroRando .... just quit posting the same post in different threads/ topics, and especially so if the topic of the thread has nothing to do with your propaganda spam !!
You are perhaps used to preach at a choir from what is done and promoted at your church, but do NOT continue with such spamming!! It is NOT appreciated, and does NOT serve the forum purpose stated in its guidelines.
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Stop making lame excuses for your obvious spamming attempts at flooding the forum with your propaganda. You have been caught with your pants down .....
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Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. (Luke 6:42) The good man out of his good treasure sends out good things, whereas the wicked man out of his wicked treasure sends out wicked things. (Matthew 12:45)
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@BroRando posted:
Anxiety affects people from all walks of Life. And coming to know Jesus Christ can have a real positive influence in a person quality of Life.
No one would deny that anxiety affects people from all walks of life, or that knowing Jesus can have a positive influence on a person's quality of life. But then again, I didn't ask you about those contentions. I asked why you chose to post that information in any thread other than its original and on-topic home.
These forums are home to very few regular posters and, I'm guessing, not all that many non-posting guests. But I know of no reason to suspect that any "walk of life" was denied access to the information you seek to dispense.
CD forum expectations ask posters to reduce "clutter" by posting in existing on-topic threads when possible. In my view, your decision to post in three off-topic threads information that was already available in an on-topic thread violated those expectations. Please tell me why I'm wrong to reach such a conclusion.
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Three Questions for @BroRando
1. If Jesus is the Angel Michael, why did Jews want to kill Jesus for what Jesus had said ? (John 8:58-59 per Jewish law based on Torah teachings)
Jewish scholars counted 613 commandments in the Torah (books of Moses), but none of them command humans to kill angel(s).
2. Are these words spoken by Jesus true ?
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many miracles in your name?’ And then I will say to them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21-23 LEB)
3. What words do you want to hear from Jesus ?
To me, Matthew 7:21-23 is truthfully consistent with Revelation 20:11-15 (LEB) And I saw a great white throne and the one who was seated on it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled, and a place was not found for them. And I saw the dead—the great and the small—standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and each one was judged according to their deeds. And Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Deeds show human choices reflecting what they really, really, really love the most.
By the way, Jewish convention of reading Adonai (Lord) instead of יהוה has Matthew 7:21-23 implication of Jesus being called יהוה
@BroRando Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. (Luke 6:42) The good man out of his good treasure sends out good things, whereas the wicked man out of his wicked treasure sends out wicked things. (Matthew 12:45)
Pride goeth before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall. (Proverbs 16:18 ASV)
Spam includes prideful self promotion of your own website page, while not engaging in respectful online theological discussion.
Initial post on April 2019 in this thread began with:
A number of CD replies by @Wolfgang & @Bill_Coley have asserted an idea that Jesus is not God so searched New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update using Logos Bible Software for "not ... God" usage near Jesus:
(not BEFORE 2 WORDS God) WITHIN 7 WORDS (Jesus,Christ,<Person Jesus>)
that found four verses: John 9:16, John 9:33, 1 John 4:3, 2 John 9 (noted only one Bible author so assertion about Jesus not being God by other authors plainly lacks verses to consider).
John chapter 9 tells about the man born blind being healed by Jesus, which includes verse 16 "Therefore some of the Pharisees were saying, “This man is not from God, because He does not keep the Sabbath.” But others were saying, “How can a man who is a sinner perform such signs?” And there was a division among them.
New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Jn 9:16.
Pharisees were professional scripture students, whose letter of the law memorization included Exodus 31:15 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.
New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Ex 31:15.
John 9:33 is the healed man responding to the Pharisees. 1 John 4:3 pericope context is 1 John 4:1-6 about Testing the Spirits. 2 John 9 pericope context is the entire letter. John documented some Pharisees believed Jesus is not from God while the other verses plainly do not match @Wolfgang & @Bill_Coley assertions about the diety of Jesus.
The ending of John chapter 9 (verses 35-41) include Jesus asking the healed man if he believes in the "Son of Man" (that is a diety term for Jesus referring to Daniel 7:13-14) followed by the healed man worshipping Jesus (without being rebuked by Jesus).
If Jesus is not God, then Jesus receiving worship for God is sin (Ex 20:5 , Dt 5:9), which disqualifies Jesus from being savior for anyone.
If Jesus is God, then Jesus receiving worship for God is not sin (and appropriate).
Keep Smiling 😊
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Are you now going to tell Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus to stop spamming your article or is his propaganda spam ok for the CD forum? Would love to see your answer....
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1. If Jesus is the Angel Michael, why did Jews want to kill Jesus for what Jesus had said ? (John 8:58-59 per Jewish law based on Torah teachings)
Answer: “For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,” (Acts 27:23)
" I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star." (Rev 22:16)
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@BroRando posted:
Are you now going to tell Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus to stop spamming your article or is his propaganda spam ok for the CD forum? Would love to see your answer....
As has happened on multiple prior occasions, it's not clear to me whom you're asking to respond to your post. But I will respond in case I'm the intended recipient.
- I don't know what "article" of mine (or anybody's) you believe @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus is "spamming. Are you referring to one or more CD threads?
- I don't know what specific content in his post(s) qualifies as "propaganda spam" in your view. Please identify.
- "Spam" is generally defined as off-topic and unsolicited content distributed to a large number of recipients, usually by email. I consider your posting of the identical content in four different threads, three of which were clearly off-topic, to be inappropriate and a violation of CD forum expectations, but I don't find the term "spam" useful to describe the violation. I don't see anything in @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus' posts that violates the CD expectations in the way your three additional posts did.
The expectation here is not burdensome: Post your views as you wish to express them - just do so in on-topic threads. If you have more information/encouragement/commentary to offer people who are struggling, GREAT!! Post it in the thread you launched for that topic, and not in threads on climate change, the Trinity, the intersection of prophecy and governance, etc.
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I was speaking to Wolfgang, again. It seems that only two or three people are on this forum anyways. There was No Response to Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus so I answered him and I quoted his question with my answer.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus @BroRando 1. If Jesus is the Angel Michael, why did Jews want to kill Jesus for what Jesus had said ? (John 8:58-59 per Jewish law based on Torah teachings)
@BroRando Answer: “For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,” (Acts 27:23)
@BroRando "I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star." (Rev 22:16)
Puzzling since your Answers do not provide a Jewish legal reason for wanting Jesus put to death.
Wondering how many god(s) for your personal belief ? Did an Angel create humans (root of David) and become a physical offspring of David ?
@Bill_Coley to @BroRando Where in the text of Acts 27 do you find support for your view that Jesus is the angel whom Paul quotes in v.23?
Likewise wonder what is your Bible text support about the Angel in Acts 27:23 being Jesus ?
Hoping for your answer this time for two more questions (previously asked):
2. Are these words spoken by Jesus true ?
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many miracles in your name?’ And then I will say to them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21-23 LEB)
3. What words do you want to hear from Jesus ?
To me, Matthew 7:21-23 is truthfully consistent with Revelation 20:11-15 (LEB) And I saw a great white throne and the one who was seated on it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled, and a place was not found for them. And I saw the dead—the great and the small—standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and each one was judged according to their deeds. And Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Deeds show human choices reflecting what they really, really, really love the most.
By the way, Jewish convention of reading Adonai (Lord) instead of יהוה has Matthew 7:21-23 implication of Jesus being called יהוה
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Likewise wonder what is your Bible text support about the Angel in Acts 27:23 being Jesus ?
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Who was the person that recruited Saul? Who is the light of the world that lights it up because of his glory??
"But as I was traveling and getting near to Damascus, about midday, suddenly out of heaven a great light flashed all around me, and I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me: ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?’ I answered: ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And he said to me: ‘I am Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ, whom you are persecuting.’ (Acts 22:6-8)
"After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory." (Rev 18:1)
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus By the way, Jewish convention of reading Adonai (Lord) instead of יהוה has Matthew 7:21-23 implication of Jesus being called יהוה
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That implication comes with a strong reason: This angel was called יהוה later on in Exodus. "Then Jehovah’s angel appeared to him in a flame of fire in the midst of a thornbush. As he kept looking, he saw that the thornbush was on fire, and yet the thornbush was not consumed." (Exodus 3:2)
Another implication: "I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, because my name is in him. " (Exodus 23:20-12)
Jesus never claims to be the I AM THAT I AM (Jehovah)
Jesus is who? I AM (Jesus)
If you new anything, you should have already known that Jesus when translated means 'Jehovah is Salvation" That is why he told the wicked religious leaders, "For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name! (Matthew 23:39)
You should read the previous scripture where he compares himself to a feminine noun having wings.... (Matthew 23:37)
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@BroRando posted:
Who was the person that recruited Saul? Who is the light of the world that lights it up because of his glory??
"But as I was traveling and getting near to Damascus, about midday, suddenly out of heaven a great light flashed all around me, and I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me: ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?’ I answered: ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And he said to me: ‘I am Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ, whom you are persecuting.’ (Acts 22:6-8)
"After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory." (Rev 18:1)
In my view, your exegesis of these two passages is misguided:
- None of the three accounts of Saul's Damascus road encounter with Jesus found in Acts (Acts 9.1-19; Acts 22.3-16; Acts 26.9-18) reports that Jesus was an angel.
- The angel who speaks in Revelation 18 is specifically identified as "another angel" - "another" angel in a series of them that speak throughout the book (e.g. Revelation 5.2, 7.3, 9.14, 10.6-7, 10.9, 14.7, 14.9, 14.15, 14.18, 16.5, 16.17, 17.1, 18.1, 18.21, 19.9, 19.17, 22.6). Had John thought said angel was Jesus - which, of course, would have distinguished that angel from all the others - he would have told us so.
- And there is STILL the matter of the other passages on this subject matter that I raised to your attention in another thread yesterday, on only one of which you have offered even passing comments:
In Galatians 4.14, Paul makes a clear distinction between Jesus and the angels (emphasis added):
"But even though my condition tempted you to reject me, you did not despise me or turn me away. No, you took me in and cared for me as though I were an angel from God or even Christ Jesus himself."
The writer of Hebrews makes a similar distinction in Hebrews 1.5 (emphasis added):
5 For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.”
And finally, John the Revelator quotes Jesus as referring to an angel under his direction, suggesting that Jesus commands angels, but isn't one himself (emphasis added):
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this message for the churches. I am both the source of David and the heir to his throne. I am the bright morning star.” [EDIT: THIS VERSE IS REVELATION 22.16]
In my view, you have yet to show any textual support for your view that Jesus was the angel referenced in Acts 27.23. Acts 27 doesn't say he was. No other NT verse says he was an angel. And at least one verse explicitly says he wasn't one.
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Jehovah, Israel's Savior, has given us ANOTHER Savior.
What is confusing about that? I guess to ones worshiping a Three-in-One God, ANYTHING would be confusing!
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Where was @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus spamming my (or other people's) article? Just because he replied to your spam and -- granted, a little more elaborately than I had done -- tried to point out your spam doings ?
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When the Jews translated their Hebrew/Aramaic Bible into the Greek Septuagint (LXX), 65 verses translated (I Jehovah) אֲנִ֥י יְהוָ֖ה => ἐγώ εἰμί OR ἐγώ εἰμί Κύριος (Lord for the way יְהוָ֖ה was pronounced, even though אָדוֹן was not in that Hebrew verse). Thankful for Logos BIble Search in LXX Swete for "ἐγώ εἰμί" with LHB (showing corresponding results) so looking at 180 results found (I Jehovah) אֲנִ֥י יְהוָ֖ה => ἐγώ εἰμί OR ἐγώ εἰμί Κύριος Reverse Interlinear alignment of the 1901 American Standard Version (ASV) includes Strongs Hebrew numbers: (Jehovah,3068) יְהוָ֖ה (I,589) אֲנִ֥י
And the Egyptians shall know that I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί Κύριος), when I stretch forth my hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them. (Exodus 7:5 ASV)
And I will set apart in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί Κύριος) in the midst of the earth. (Exodus 8:22 ASV)
And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and he shall follow after them; and I will get me honor upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host: and the Egyptians shall know that I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί Κύριος). And they did so. (Exodus 14:4 ASV)
And the Egyptians shall know that I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί Κύριος), when I have gotten me honor upon Pharaoh, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen. (Exodus 14:18 ASV)
And God (אֱלֹהִים) spake all these words, saying, I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί Κύριος) thy God (אֱלֹהִים), who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. (Exodus 20:1-2 ASV) God = אֱלֹהִים (elohim is Plural) Strongs Hebrew # 430. Hebrew noun spelling shows Singular (1), Dual (2), or Plural (minimum of 3).
And they shall know that I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί Κύριος) their God (אֱלֹהִים) (Exodus 29:46 ASV) LXX verse is shorter than ASV
For I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί Κύριος) your God (אֱלֹהִים): sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that moveth upon the earth. For I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί Κύριος) that brought you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God (אֱלֹהִים): ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy. (Leviticus 11:44-45 ASV)
Leviticus chapter 19 has thirteen verses (10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 25, 28, 30, 31, 32, 34, 36, 37) having I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί Κύριος)
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the sojourner, as for the home-born: for I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί Κύριος) your God (אֱלֹהִים). (Leviticus 24:22 ASV)
And ye shall not wrong one another; but thou shalt fear thy God (אֱלֹהִים): for I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί Κύριος) your God (אֱלֹהִים). (Leviticus 25:17 ASV)
Leviticus chapter 26 has five verses (1, 2, 13, 44, 45) having I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί Κύριος)
For thus saith Jehovah that created the heavens, the God (אֱלֹהִים) that formed the earth and made it, that established it and created it not a waste, that formed it to be inhabited: I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί); and there is none else. (Isaiah 45:18 ASV)
I have not spoken in secret, in a place of the land of darkness; I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I (ἐγώ), Jehovah (εἰμί), speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. (Isaiah 45:19 ASV)
Declare ye, and bring it forth; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath showed this from ancient time? who hath declared it of old? have not I (ἐγώ), Jehovah (εἰμί)? and there is no God (אֱלֹהִים) else besides me, a just God and a Saviour; there is none besides me. (Isaiah 45:21 ASV) Phrase "a just God and a Saviour" has singular (1) nouns.
Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί) thy God (אֱלֹהִים), who teacheth thee to profit, who leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. (Isaiah 48:17 ASV)
but let him that glorieth glory in this, that he hath understanding, and knoweth me, that I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί) who exerciseth lovingkindness, justice, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith Jehovah. (Jeremiah 9:24 ASV)
And I will give them a heart to know me, that I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί): and they shall be my people, and I will be their God (אֱלֹהִים); for they shall return unto me with their whole heart. (Jeremiah 24:7 ASV)
And mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: I will bring upon thee according to thy ways; and thine abominations shall be in the midst of thee; and ye shall know that I (ἐγώ), Jehovah (εἰμί), do smite. (Ezekiel 7:9 ASV)
and say, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I am against thee, O Sidon; and I will be glorified in the midst of thee; and they shall know that I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί), when I shall have executed judgments in her, and shall be sanctified in her. (Ezekiel 28:22 ASV)
For I will send pestilence into her, and blood into her streets; and the wounded shall fall in the midst of her, with the sword upon her on every side; and they shall know that I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί). (Ezekiel 28:23 ASV)
And there shall be no more a pricking brier unto the house of Israel, nor a hurting thorn of any that are round about them, that did despite unto them; and they shall know that I (ἐγώ) am the Lord (Κύριος) Jehovah (εἰμί). (Ezekiel 28:24 ASV) Hebrew text includes אָדוֹן (H136) for Lord (Κύριος)
Ezekiel has 28 more verses having I (ἐγώ) am Jehovah (εἰμί): 28:26, 29:6, 29:9, 29:16, 29:21, 30:8, 30:19, 30:25, 30:36, 32:15, 33:29, 34:15, 34:27, 34:30, 35:4, 35:9, 35:12, 35:15, 36:11, 36:23, 37:6, 37:13, 37:28, 38:23, 39:6, 39:7, 39:22, 39:28
But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and saith unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I (ἐγώ) am (εἰμί): and ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven. (Mark 14:61-62 ASV) Son of man refers to Daniel 7:13-14 vision (Jesus did not describe Himself as an angel)
Jesus said unto them, I (ἐγώ) am (εἰμί) the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger, and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. (John 6:35 ASV)
The Jews therefore murmured concerning him, because he said, I (ἐγώ) am (εἰμί) the bread which came down out of heaven. (John 6:41 ASV)
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I (ἐγώ) am (εἰμί). (John 8:58 ASV)
and he fell upon the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord (Κύριος)? And he said, I (ἐγώ) am (εἰμί) Jesus whom thou persecutest: (Acts 9:4-5 ASV) includes Saul speaking Κύριος meaning יְהוָ֖ה (Jehovah)
I (ἐγώ) am (εἰμί) the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. (Revelation 1:8 ASV)
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things for the churches. I (ἐγώ) am (εἰμί) the root and the offspring of David, the bright, the morning star. (Revelation 22:16 ASV) that was preceded by Jesus: I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. (Revelation 22:13 ASV)
Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God. (Isaiah 44:6 ASV)
To me, truly unique Holy יהוה is "the first and the last" I and the Father are one יהוה (John 10:30 ASV) The Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from the Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. (John 10:31-33 ASV) The Jews wanting to kill Jesus did not think He was an angel (actually the Jews thought they were obeying God's command concerning blasphemy).
One unique יהוה God has plural voices of The Father & Yehoshua (יהוה Salvation) & Breath The Holy. Thankful for One יהוה commUnity of Love ❤️
Keep Smiling 😊
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Too much bah-blah.
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@theMadJW Too much bah-blah.
Who is "the first and the last" ?
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things for the churches. I (ἐγώ) am (εἰμί) the root and the offspring of David, the bright, the morning star. (Revelation 22:16 ASV) that was preceded by Jesus: I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. (Revelation 22:13 ASV)
Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God. (Isaiah 44:6 ASV)
Keep Smiling 😊
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