Is Jesus God?
Jesus said to him: “Why do you call Me good? Nobody is good except one, God.” (Mark 10:18)
"Father, if you want to, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not My will, but Yours take place." (Luke 22:42)
Question: He said to them: “You, though, who do you say I am?” (Matthew 16:15) ego'eimi
What was Peter's Answer? “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16) Peter identifies Jesus as “the Christ” (Greek, ho Khri·stosʹ), a title equivalent to “the Messiah” (from Hebrew ma·shiʹach), both meaning “Anointed One.” Here “Christ” is preceded by the definite article in Greek, evidently as a way of emphasizing Jesus’ office as the Messiah.—See study notes on Mt 1:1; 2:4.
The Apostle Paul also gives witness about the ego'eimi . "For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve," (Acts 27:23)
When trinitarians proclaim 'Jesus is God.' Can we conclude that God cried out, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46) "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? (1 John 2:22)
Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” Who made this statement, Jesus or God?
Don't let Satan trick you into denying Jesus as 'the Christ the Son of the living God.' (Matthew 16:16) When trinitarians teach 'Jesus is God' they teach that God manifested in the flesh, but is this true? For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 7)
"Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:3) Why not study the following scriptures? Once the Son of Man set's you free, you really are Free! (John 8:36)
Who died for our sins? Jesus or God?
Who inherited the Name to become better than the angels? Jesus or God?
Note: Scripture in picture should read (John 14:28)
Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)
Comments
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Here we go again! Same old cat and mouse game. Your fellow members do this at people's door very early in the mornings. Could you not do it here?
This is more from JW.org. The OP is the substance from JW's website: https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/wp20090401/is-jesus-god/
JW's argumental positions are the same, as what @Bill_Coley and @Wolfgang, put forth CD when it comes to Jesus, the Christ. I don't know if they have contributed, consulted, or are the residence "scholars" for JW.org, but it's a marriage ripe to be had. Regardless, all of the party's positions fit like a hand in a glove. It's not like one O. J. Simpson tried on during his murder trial.
Please don't use CD as a dumping ground for your denominational bias pretending to invite a conversation. Buy an ad like all the other advertisers on this website. @BroRando, you're not as polished as Bill and Wolfgang in promulgating your anti-Trinitarian bias. That's alright. You're not required to be. Just be a little more forthcoming when you paste a whole study for JW.org front as a conversational piece. If you bothered to read the previous posts in CD Forums widely, you would see they made your point here. Their argument on Christ has been heard and rejected.
Now that I have helped you carry your water in sharing your website again, stop dropping full lessons of your denominational bias on CD. @BroRando; your posting tactics reminded me of the serpent in the Garden of Eden. I am not saying this of the JWs, people. That is another story.
Don't stop keeping sharing, but let it be a personal study from the heart. Feel free to share quotes from scholars, cite sources, give references, raising and answering questions from sober reasoning, and an unbias version of the Bible. Again, you don't have to be a scholar to participate in CD. No one person knows it all. Enjoy these forums, don't make it a task to share to meet a quota. A standard Bible translation under the watchful eyes of Jehovah is the ultimate authority here in CD and wherever any biblical discussions take place. I will see you around the forums. CM
PS. @BroRando, if I have mischaracterized you, your contributions, or the content of your posts, I stand to be corrected. You have my full apologies in advance. Until then, I remain.
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JW's argumental positions are the same, as what @Bill_Coley and @Wolfgang, put forth CD when it comes to Jesus, the Christ. I don't know if they have contributed, consulted, or are the residence "scholars" for JW.org, but it's a marriage ripe to be had. Regardless, all of the party's positions fit like a hand in a glove. It's not like one O. J. Simpson tried on during his murder trial.
You apparently are incapable of doing without denominations being forefront rather than being independent of such and studying Scripture on your own. Shame on you.
Has it ever dawned on you that people or groups you don't like could actually be right on some points where you and xour beloved denomination(s) and their scholars with their dogmas are wrong?
Btw, there are plenty of biblical points - some also pertaining to what I believe to be Biblical truth about Jesus Christ - where I differ from what I've had followers of JW organization tell me. Yet, I would tell you, that regarding the so-called "Deity of Christ" they have more correct and in harmony with the Biblical texts than the main-stream Christians and their trinity ideas.
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@byGeorge Why do you display such nonsense as in the above sign pic??? You have nothing actually to say concerning specific points I mentioned ?? Or were you referring to someone else's post?
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Why do you display such nonsense as in the above sign pic???
Because the post seemed meaingful added to the conversation.
You have nothing actually to say concerning specific points I mentioned ??
I didn't choose to chime in with your criticism of @BroRando.
Or were you referring to someone else's post?
Mostly others in this thread, though the message probably applies to 90% of forum posts.
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No, they not scholars at all. They simply reject the scriptures. For instance if I quote, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16) They in turn would deny the scripture by stating it's JW Doctrine. But I am using scripture. It doesn't matter to them what scripture or what translation I use and I use many, they simply reject the scripture.
The trinitarians are of the same mind. They continiously reject scripture and state a doctrine that is absent from the Bible. God is triune. So I'll ask for a scripture... they hee and haw and tell me John 1:1 states so. I never read a triune God in any scripture let alone in John 1:1.
They will say God is made up of three seperate persons. And I'll ask for the scripture that states that... again CRICKETS...
What about the teachings of Jesus Christ? He states, "God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:24) But you're using your own Bible... and I'll say use any bible you like. The teachings of Jesus Christ never state some three person God. Notice Jesus stated God is a Spirit and those worhippin HIM must worship with spirit and truth.
The Bible never states Jesus is God no matter which Bible is used. Wanna know a secret? There isn't a trinity doctrine that exists today that states Jesus is God either!
There is no such Scripture that states Jesus is God. However, there are scriptures about His God and Father, Jehovah.
Psalms 83:18 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.
Psalm 118:27 American Standard Version
<< Psalm 117 | Psalm 118 | Psalm 119 >>
27 Jehovah is God, and he hath given us light: Bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.
Jeremiah 10:10 American Standard Version
<< Jeremiah 9 | Jeremiah 10 | Jeremiah 11 >>
10 But Jehovah is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting King: at his wrath the earth trembleth, and the nations are not able to abide his indignation.
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JW bias? Not at all look what translation this scripture comes from. The Apostle Paul also gives witness about the ego'eimi . "For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve," (Acts 27:23)
The King James Version is just one of several bibles we use. Others are also listed in our website.
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If you travel by air from Frankfurt to Heathrow, you can then drive twenty miles to London Bridge.
Nowhere did I say the words, "London Bridge is in England," yet that fact is clear from what I did write.
From what is written in the Bible, the fact is clear that Jesus is God.
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Nope. Otherwise you would have quoted a scripture that states Jesus is God. Same ones who fight against the Christ also make the false claim the Jesus raised himself from the dead. Over and over again they deny (Romans 10:9) Guess what... (Romans 10:9) is a Salvation Scripture. Read it sometime...
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These should be plenty for our purposes:
1. John 10:30 “The Father and I are one.”
2. Philippians 2:5-6 “You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.”
3. John 17:21 “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
4. John 1:18 “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.“
5. Colossians 2:9-10 “For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.“
Jesus claimed to be God
6. John 10:33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.“
7. John 5:18 “This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.“
8. John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.“
9. John 1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.“
10. 1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.“
11. Romans 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the namJesus Christ is the only way into Heaven.e of the Lord will be saved.”
12. John 8:57-58 “The people said, “You aren’t even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?” Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!”
13. John 8:22-24 “This made the Jews ask, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, ‘Where I go, you cannot come’?” But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
14. John 13:18-19 “I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill this passage of Scripture: ‘He who shared my bread has turned against me.’ “I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.
First and Last: There’s only one God
15. Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.”
16. 1 Corinthians 8:6 “Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”
17. Revelation 2:8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.“
18. Revelation 1:17-18 “When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.“
Only God can be worshiped. Jesus was worshiped.
19. Matthew 2:1-2 “After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”
20. Matthew 28:8-9 “So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.“
Jesus is prayed to revealing that He is God
21. Acts 7:59-60 “And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.“
The Trinity
22. Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
23. 2 Corinthians 13:14 “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.”
24. John 20:27-28 “Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
25. 2 Peter 1:1 “Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.“
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Those listed say Jesus is God with more detail than your statement.
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That's what YOU say... show the scripture that state, JESUS is GOD. You know like I showed you about his God and Father.
Psalm 118:27 American Standard Version
<< Psalm 117 | Psalm 118 | Psalm 119 >>
27 Jehovah is God, and he hath given us light: Bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.
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Your exact words "JESUS is GOD" do not exist in any Bible translation or original autograph, to my knowledge.
Neither do the exact words exit: "BroRando is human." That does not prove you are not human.
In fact, are you human? Based on what facts?
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Absence of your exact English words is a passing consideration and says nothing about whether Jesus is God. The Bible passages above declare that Jesus is God.
Trinity doctrine wording specifics do not interest me. Trinity is evident enough.
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If you state something is in the Bible and is not, couldn't that be classified as lying? For example you claim the Trinity is evident enough. Yet the trinity or it's teaching is not at all in the Bible. The trinity doctrine omits the Name of Jesus Christ.
When trinitarians proclaim 'Jesus is God.' Can we conclude that God cried out, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46)
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If you state something is in the Bible and is not. caouldn't that be classified as lying?
It could be. That works both ways.
The trinity omits the Name of Jesus Christ.
See above.
When trinitarians proclaim 'Jesus is God.' Can we conclude that God cried out, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
Both are true and without conflict if you believe Jesus is who he says he is.
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You seem to put alot of faith in something that is not even in the Bible but unwilling to share what trinity doctrine you beleive. Yet, you claim "Both are true and without conflict if you believe Jesus is who he says he is."
So Jesus is God and crying out to another God when there is only One God. Jesus calls his Father the only true God in (John 17:3) but evidently you don't beleive him or am I missing something?
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Jesus claimed to be God
6. John 10:33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.“
John 10:33 does NOT say that Jesus claimed to be God! That verse records the words of the Jews and what they accused of ...
They knew that Jesus was not God but a man. They falsely accused Jesus of blasphemy by misinterpreting his words about being the human Messiah whom God approved by means of the works he did. To accuse him the Jews said (falsely) that he claimed to be God (which would have been total stupidity since all knew that a man can NOT be God (even if he would claim such)
The same kind of incorrect reading of texts on your part is evident throughout your list of verses and what you claim they say.
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@byGeorge Both are true and without conflict if you believe Jesus is who he says he is.
I believe Jesus to be who he says he is -- the only begotten Son of God, the human Messiah (Christ) !!
Unfortunately, you don't, because you make him out to be two (God and man) which is an impossibility, seeing that such idea contradicts the basic truths that God cannot be a man nor can a man be God! The Creator cannot be one of His creation, and visa versa.
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God cannot be a man nor can a man be God!
True: Jesus is not God and man. That would be impossible. He is God in a man.
The Creator cannot be one of His creation, and visa versa.
True. Now take the next logical step.
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When trinitarians proclaim 'Jesus is God.' Can we conclude that God cried out, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
Both are true and without conflict if you believe Jesus is who he says he is.
No... Even the common folk did not believe the wicked religious leaders own false charge of Jesus being God.
For instance we read, "And the people stood looking on. But the rulers were sneering and saying: “Others he saved; let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, the Chosen One.” (Luke 23:35)
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That's not the trinity sir. Neither is God multi-natured.
John 3:2
This one came to him in the night and said to him: “Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher, for no one can perform these signs that you perform unless God is with him.”
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You have something important to say, but you contradicted yourself. Can you try again?
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@byGeorge, to whom are you speaking? @BretClopto last post was Sept 3rd. CM
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Thank you. Correct is @BretClopto@BroRando
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I don't know Clopto but I do realise when you are confronted with scripture you seem to be at a lost. And Nicodemus never claimd Jesus to be God.
John 3:2
This one came to him in the night and said to him: “Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher, for no one can perform these signs that you perform unless God is with him.”
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Well, God was also "in" other men when they spoke on God's behalf or worked miracles by God's authority .... they too were as such "divine" (divinely authorized, divinely sent, divinely inspired), but I doubt anyone would claim that they actually were God just because God was working in them.
Now then, @byGeorge, since Jesus is not God and man, and since we know from numerous scriptures that Jesus was a man, it follows that Jesus therefore could not have been God. Why do you want to deny such simple and plain truth and contradict yourself?
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I don't know Clopto
Do any of you know each other?
Nicodemus never claimd Jesus to be God.
"God in a man" as I used it was not a reference to Nicodemus' statement. I referred to incarnation.
God was also "in" other men when they spoke on God's behalf or worked miracles by God's authority
Words can be used to provide different meanings. People who are influenced by the Spirit of God are not God incarnate as Jesus was.
Well, God was also "in" other men when they spoke on God's behalf or worked miracles by God's authority .... they too were as such "divine" (divinely authorized, divinely sent, divinely inspired), but I doubt anyone would claim that they actually were God just because God was working in them.
Good clarification.
Beng influenced by divinity is different from being divine. An explicit difference between Jesus and other people is that Jesus is Divine.
Now then, @byGeorge, since Jesus is not God and man,
Good point. I have heard the term "Jesus is God and man," and object because a hearer could imagine that Jesus was two separate entities: God plus a man. Better is to say, "Jesus was God in man." Incarnation defines it well. God came in flesh to live among us and to die as a sacrifice for our sins. No other sacrifice would satisfy God.
Post edited by byGeorge on
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