Is Jesus God?
Comments
-
You wrote: "Jesus was God in man." Incarnation defines it well. God came in flesh to live among us and to die as a sacrifice for our sins. No other sacrifice would satisfy God."
This is the explaination of an antichrist. The teached opposes and rejects Jesus as the Christ the Son of the living God. Such ones deny (John 3:16)
Incarnation is nothing short of satan worship to put it mildly. Moldalism or Incarnation same difference. Notice a modalist will not longer give witness to Jesus being the Chriist. You will see Christ disaappearing from their responses.
-
Considering the OP -- "Is Jesus God"?
You raised the question, let the Bible give the answers:
- Deut 10:17 — For the Lord [Jehovah] your God is God of gods and Lord of lords...
- Matt 12:8 — For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath
- John 20:27-28 — Thomas said to him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed [are] they who did not see, and [yet] believed.”
- Rom 10:9,11-13 — confess Jesus as Lord...For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed”...the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call upon Him; for “Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”
- Eph 4:4-5 — [There is]...one Lord
- James 2:1 — My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ...
- Rev 17:14 — the Lamb...he is Lord of lords and King of kings
- Rev 19:16 — On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: King of kings and Lord of lords...
From the Biblical records, without name-calling, @BroRando, the answer is YES! Are you willing to accept the Bible? CM
-
Brethren,
Background: A correct understanding is necessary for a fruitful discussion --- There are two divergent theological positions, both embracing a monarchical idea:
First, dynamic monarchianism
- Paul of Samosata (Bishop of Antioch, ca. 260) as its chief proponent.
- Suggested God’s wisdom dwelt with the man Jesus, “it did not form an independent person within Him.”
- Other dynamic monarchianists (e.g., Theodotus of Byzantium, 2nd century):
- Jesus lived as other men until the time of His baptism when Christ came over Him as a power and became active within Him from that point onwards.
The second was “Modalism”:
- Sabellius (ca. 215) as its chief proponent.
- Modalism emphasize God’s oneness.
- They likened the relationship between the three Persons: The sun, its warmth and light.
- Sabellius noted: “God, with respect to hypostasis [underlying substance], is only one, but he has been personified in Scripture in various ways according to the current need.”
- Both forms of monarchianism were condemned as heretical.
In other words, God exists as Father, Son, and Spirit in different eras, but never as triune. Stemming from Modalism, believed that the Father suffered as the Son. The bases of the early church’s rejection of modalism were the following:
- On the one hand, dynamic Monarchianism denied the church’s standard understanding at the time of the Son’s consubstantiality with the Father.
- On the other hand, modalism, (God is a single being who manifests himself in different ways), denied the doctrine of the three Persons, while both denied the doctrine of Son’s birth in eternity.
Modalism (i.e. Sabellianism, Noetianism, and Patripassianism):
- Taught that the three persons of the Trinity as different “modes” of the Godhead.
- One who believe such-- accepts that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not distinct personalities, but different modes of God's self-revelation.
- A typical modalist approach is to regard God:
- The Father in creation
- The Son in redemption
- The Spirit in sanctification
None of the above terms are found in the Bible like those below:
- Trinity, Trinitarianism, Successive modalism, Simultaneous modalism, Tritheism, Binitarianism, and Swedenborgianism. A fellow poster Mitchell said, they "represent some of the various ways people have tried to make sense of theology.
- https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/570#Comment_570
Let's keep digging and studying. CM
SOURCES:
- Bengt Hägglund, History of Theology, trans. Gene J. Lund (St. Louis, MO: Concordia Publishing House, 2007), pp 71, 72
- Paul of Samosata (Bishop of Antioch, ca. 260) as its chief proponent.
-
-
For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)
-
"Is Jesus God"?
You raised the question, let the Bible give the answers:
Deut 10:17 — For the Lord [Jehovah] your God is God of gods and Lord of lords...
This verse is not about Jesus
Matt 12:8 — For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath
This has nothing to do with the question if Jesus is God
John 20:27-28 — Thomas said to him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed [are] they who did not see, and [yet] believed.”
This verse states what Thomas said ... but does not teach that Jesus is God.
These verses do not say anything about Jesus is God
Eph 4:4-5 — [There is]...one Lord
This verse says nothing about Jesus is God. Actually, consider 1Cor 8:5-6 and you will actually read who the one God is (=> the Father)
James 2:1 — My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ
This verse says nothing about Jesus is God.
Rev 17:14 — the Lamb...he is Lord of lords and King of kings
This verse says nothing about Jesus is God.
Rev 19:16 — On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: King of kings and Lord of lords
This verse says nothing about Jesus is God either.
From the Biblical records, without name-calling, @BroRando, the answer is YES! Are you willing to accept the Bible? CM
I am willing to acceot the Bible and have checked all the verses in your list ... not one passage shows that Jesus is God, rather they reveal that you should ask yourself the question if you accept the Bible or instead go by other sources misleading you to not believe the Bible.
-
@C Mc posted:
Did I answered the OP thoroughly and correctly?
In my view, no.
I think the most prominent issue among the texts you cited is the meaning of the word "Lord." Here is my understanding as to the meaning of that word in each of the passages:
- Deuteronomy 7.17 -- "Lord [Jehovah]" is the God of Israel
- Matthew 12.9 -- "Lord of the Sabbath" is the master of, the authority over, the Sabbath
- John 20.27-28 -- Thomas calls Jesus is Lord (master) and God, the one text in your list that in my view contains a declaration of Jesus' being God, though it's not clear to me what role Jesus' resurrected state plays in Thomas' response
- Romans 10.9,11-13 -- Jesus as "Lord" is Jesus as master/authority in life, in whose name we find salvation
- Ephesians 4.4-5 -- The one "Lord" is the one master/authority. Ephesians 4.6 continues the list of "ones," the first item of which is one "God and Father of us all." It makes no sense for the passage to claim there is "one [God], one faith, one baptism, AND one God and Father of us all." Rhetorical symmetry, I suppose, would assert the existence of "one Lord, who is Jesus and God and Father of us all, one faith, and one baptism." But that's not what the text says.
- James 2.1 -- The Lord Jesus Christ is the master/authority
- Revelation 17.14 -- The "Lamb" is "Lord of all Lords and King of all kings," in which "Lord" is master/authority. Revelation 7.10 makes clear that the "Lamb" is NOT God.
- Revelation 19.16 -- The "Lord of lords" is master/authority. Revelation 19.14 says this "Lord of lords" will release the "fierce wrath of God, the Almighty," while giving no suggestion that the "Lord of lords" is also God. The language of the passage strongly suggests the "Lord of lords" is NOT God, but has the authority to release God's wrath (see also Revelation 19.17 for its reference to a banquet God has prepared, a reference whose mention of God gives no indication that the "Lord of lords" mentioned in the previous verse is the God who has prepared the banquet).
So from among the verses you cited, in my view only Thomas' exclamation in John 20 qualifies as a reference to Jesus as God. As Wolfgang points out, such is reported Thomas' view, but not as an eternal truth. Think about it: Why is there only one such declaration in the NT? It sounds like the most remarkable claim of faith EVER, yet it's made only once and by one person in the New Testament, wherein Peter, Paul, and Jesus himself refer to Jesus as clearly distinct from and other than God.
-
Jesus claimed to be God so clearly that his enemies attempted to stone Him for blasphemy. What Jesus said was so clear to His audience, that they intended to kill Him.
Do you think Jesus' audience understood Jesus to say He was God?
Jesus is God and Christ (messiah) and Lord.
If you have a Lord, is your Lord God or a man?
Many times in Scripture we see people worshipping Jesus. Jesus accepted their worship. Only God is to be worshipped.
Do you worship Jesus?
Jews knew the Christ would be God Is 9:6
Paul knew Jesus was God Titus 2:13
If you do not know Jesus is God, what would it take to convince you?
-
Scriptual gymnastics and twisting. Jesus never claimed to be God. You're taking the word of the wicked religious leader who falsely accussed him. Jesus admited of coming from the gods whom God has Sanctified and Sent into the World. Notice how Jesus answere which you left out by falsely claiming the he claimed to be God....
Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified— do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? (John 10:34-36)
-
Jesus cites Psalm 82:1–8 to remind His enemies that God Himself uses "gods" as an appropriate description for the judges of Israel. How can they stone Jesus, who performed miracles as evidence of being God, for using the word "God"?
The point was to avoid stoning.
Their reason to stone Jesus was because Jesus claimed to be God.
To claim Jesus was not God contradicts Jesus. To deny what the Bible says Jesus' audience understood Jesus to mean must be rejected.
-
Jesus said to him: “Why do you call Me good? Nobody is good except one, God.” (Mark 10:18)
Do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? (John 10:34-36)
You have to reject Jesus own teachings to make the claim he stated he was God... 😒
-
Jesus said to him: “Why do you call Me good? Nobody is good except one, God.” (Mark 10:18)
Jesus wasn't commenting on who is "God." He's commenting on who deserves to be called "good."
John 10 was discussed.
I think we have covered enough such passages unless you have genuine questions.
-
If angels are called sons of God, then what does that make Jesus? Since he claimed to be God's Son?? Do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? (John 10:34-36)
Jesus defended himself with the truth about being God's Son... his statement stands. “Why do you call Me good? Nobody is good except one, God.” (Mark 10:18)
-
Jesus wasn't commenting on who is "God." He's commenting on who deserves to be called "good."
And Jesus did not want to be called "good" ... rather he stated that NOBODY except ONE, God, is to be called "good". Jesus thus excluded himself from being GOD and included himself in those who are NOT God and should not be called "good".
-
Scriptural gymnastics and twisting. Jesus never claimed to be God. You're taking the word of the wicked religious leader who falsely accused him.
Indeed ... trinitarians are using a false accusation and turn it into the main pillar of their dogma ... 😉
-
Brethren,
The Scriptures are clear of Jesus’ claim to be the "Son of God" was understood by His listeners:
- John 5:18 — This is why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the Sabbath but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
- John 10:28-33 — “...no one shall snatch them out of My hand...no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” The Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
- John 10:36 — “Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?”
Throughout the Bible, it's in plain view for all to see. There is a thread woven in the OT and NT. Behold Jesus, The Son of God:
- God raised Him from the dead (Acts 2:24).
- He appeared in the presence of God (Heb 9:24).
- He sat down at the right hand of God (Mark 16:19).
- God highly exalted Him (Phil 2:9).
- God glorified Him (Acts 3:13).
- He was made better than the angels (Heb 1:4).
- God made Him Lord and Christ (John 2:36).
- All men should honor Him as they do the Father (John 5:22,23).
- He is the First and the Last, as is Jehovah (Isa 44:6, Rev 1:17,18).
- In Him dwells all the fulness of the Deity in bodily form (Col 2:9).
- He is the exact representation of God’s nature (Heb 1:3).
- He is above all (John 3:31).
- He sustains all things (Col 1:17, Heb 1:3).
- He is eternal Father (Isa 9:6).
- He is Mighty God (Isa 9:6).
- All things that are the Father’s are His (John 16:15).
- All authority in Heaven and on Earth has been given to Him (Matt 28:18).
- The Father has given Him power over all flesh (John 17:2).
- He is mediator between God and men (1Tim 2:5,6).
- He is in the bosom of the Father (John 1:18).
- He is Lord of lords (Rev 17:14).
- “Whoever calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved” applies to Him (Rom 10:9, 11-13).
- He is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Heb 13:8).
The plain truth! CM
Post edited by C Mc on -
The Scriptures are clear of Jesus’ claim to be the "Son of God" was understood by His listeners:
Indeed, the man Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be the Son of God !!!
Now please note the plain truth:
Son of God IS NOT the same as God !
Jesus did NOT claim to be God (Whom Jesus repeatedly called his Father, and Who is in heaven)
-
This is not the whole story on the "sons or Son of God". Dig a little deeper. CM
-
Truth be known. Jesus is called the only begotten god in the second half of (John 1:18)
John 1:18
the only-begotten god: John is here referring to the Word, “Jesus Christ,” whom he earlier calls “a god.” (Joh 1:1, 17) John speaks of Jesus as being the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14; 3:16) In this passage, John calls Jesus “the only-begotten god,” a term that emphasizes Jesus’ unique position in God’s arrangement. Jesus can rightly be called “a god” because of the way the term “god” is used in the Bible. This title conveys the basic idea of a mighty one, and it is even used of humans in the Scriptures. (Ps 82:6; see study notes on Joh 1:1; 10:34.) Jesus is “a god,” or a mighty one, because he is given power and authority from the almighty God, the Father. (Mt 28:18; 1Co 8:6; Heb 1:2) Because Jesus is the only one directly created by God and the only one through whom all things “came into existence” (Joh 1:3), he is appropriately called “the only-begotten god.” This expression shows that Jesus holds a unique position of glory and preeminence in relation to all of God’s spirit sons. As reflected in some Bible translations, some manuscripts read “the only-begotten Son.” But the earliest and most authoritative manuscripts read “the only-begotten god” (with the definite article in Greek) or “only-begotten god” (without the definite article in Greek).
at the Father’s side: Lit., “in the bosom of the Father.” This expression refers to a position of special favor and close fellowship. It is a figure of speech that is likely drawn from the way meals were eaten; guests would recline on couches in such a way that one could lean back on the bosom, or chest, of a close friend. (Joh 13:23-25) Jesus is thus described as the closest friend of Jehovah, the one person who could explain God more fully and thoroughly than anyone else could.—Mt 11:27.
-
John 1:18
the only-begotten god: John is here referring to the Word, “Jesus Christ,” whom he earlier calls “a god.” (Joh 1:1, 17) John speaks of Jesus as being the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14; 3:16) In this passage, John calls Jesus “the only-begotten god,” a term that emphasizes Jesus’ unique position in God’s arrangement. Jesus can rightly be called “a god” because of the way the term “god” is used in the Bible. This title conveys the basic idea of a mighty one, and it is even used of humans in the Scriptures. (Ps 82:6; see study notes on Joh 1:1; 10:34.) Jesus is “a god,” or a mighty one, because he is given power and authority from the almighty God, the Father. (Mt 28:18; 1Co 8:6; Heb 1:2) Because Jesus is the only one directly created by God and the only one through whom all things “came into existence” (Joh 1:3), he is appropriately called “the only-begotten god.” This expression shows that Jesus holds a unique position of glory and preeminence in relation to all of God’s spirit sons. As reflected in some Bible translations, some manuscripts read “the only-begotten Son.” But the earliest and most authoritative manuscripts read “the only-begotten god” (with the definite article in Greek) or “only-begotten god” (without the definite article in Greek).
For those who have thought I had the same understanding as JW, or even thought I was a JW member .... here you see a position about JOhn 1,1ff-18 which is very different in various claims made from what I understand to be the original wording of v. 18 and the correct understanding of the introductory section in John.
-
A couple centuries before Jesus was born, Jewish scholars translated plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God (Hebrew Strong's # 430, plural of Hebrew Strong's #433) as singular theos θεὸς God (Greek Strong's # 2316) in 2,088 places, plural theos θεὸς God (Greek Strong's # 2316) in 186 places, and singular kyrios Κύριος Lord (Greek Strong's # 2962) in 121 places. Also Jewish scholars translated יהוה (Hebrew Strong's # 3068) as singular kyrios Κύριος Lord (Greek Strong's # 2962) in 6,076 places and singular theos θεὸς God (Greek Strong's # 2316) in 247 places. Scripture reading in Jewish synagogues said Adonai (Lord) instead of יהוה when Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi (teacher) on earth.
Question "Is Jesus God ?" is vague (answer depends on definition of God: e.g. if believe God only has one voice, then answer is NO)
Is Jesus all of plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God ? No
Is Jesus one voice of plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God ? Yes, the other two voices of plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God are The Father & Breath The Holy
When the only One Spiritual Being (plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God) existed BEFORE God created physical realm, Jesus experienced God's Glory (John 17:5) and God's Love (John 17:24).
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with אֱלֹהִים God, and the Word was אֱלֹהִים God. (John 1:1 LEB plus plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים for Jewish God). Spiritual quality of the Word was being el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God in the beginning.
What did Jesus command the man who had been set free from a legion of demons ? (implying identity of יהוה Lord אֱלֹהִים God)
And he did not permit him, but said to him, “Go to your home to your people and tell them all that the יהוה Lord has done for you, and that he has had mercy on you.” And he went away and began to proclaim in the Decapolis all that Jesus had done for him, and they were all astonished. (Mark 5:19-20)
“Return to your home and tell all that אֱלֹהִים God has done for you.” And he went away, proclaiming throughout the whole town all that Jesus had done for him. (Luke 8:39 LEB)
@BroRando October 11 Jesus defended himself with the truth about being God's Son... his statement stands. “Why do you call Me good? Nobody is good except one, God.” (Mark 10:18)
And as he was setting out on his way, one individual ran up and knelt down before him and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do so that I will inherit eternal life?” So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.’ ” And he said to him, “Teacher, all these I have observed from my youth.” And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing: Go, sell all that you have, and give the proceeds to the poor—and you will have treasure in heaven—and come, follow me.” But he looked gloomy at the statement and went away sorrowful, because he had many possessions. (Mark 10:17-22 LEB)
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, “Good Teacher, by doing what will I inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’ ” And he said, “All these I have observed from my youth.” And when he heard this, Jesus said to him, “You still lack one thing: Sell all that you have, and distribute the proceeds to the poor—and you will have treasure in heaven—and come, follow me.” But when he heard these things he became very sad, because he was extremely wealthy. (Luke 18:18-23 LEB)
Thankful for wealthy ruler and Jesus discussion, which showed wealthy ruler loved personal riches on earth more than obeying אֱלֹהִים God's Words spoken through Jesus for treasure in heaven. Every person chooses what to believe & love most. Thus, question to wealthy ruler shows אֱלֹהִים God knew inside heart motivation of wealthy ruler so correctly questioned: "Why do you call me good? ..."
@BroRando October 12 ... whom he earlier calls “a god.” (Joh 1:1, 17)
Koine Greek language has the definite article "the" (Greek Strong's # 3588), but does not have an indefinite article "a" so "a god" is an interpretation of phrase θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος (God was being The Word). Lack of the definite article before God shows quality assertion: The Word was being God along with plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God being more than The Word.
Koine Greek Language textbook used in many colleges includes John 1:1c exegetical insight in Chapter 6:
Chapter 6
Nominative and Accusative; Article
(First and Second Declension Nouns)
Exegetical Insight
The nominative case is the case that the subject is in. When the subject takes an equative verb like “is” (i.e., a verb that equates the subject with something else), then another noun also appears in the nominative case—the predicate nominative. In the sentence, “John is a man,” “John” is the subject and “man” is the predicate nominative. In English the subject and predicate nominative are distinguished by word order (the subject comes first). Not so in Greek. Since word order in Greek is quite flexible and is used for emphasis rather than for strict grammatical function, other means are used to distinguish subject from predicate nominative. For example, if one of the two nouns has the article, it is the subject.
As we have said, word order is employed especially for the sake of emphasis. Generally speaking, when a word is thrown to the front of the clause it is done so for emphasis. When a predicate nominative is thrown in front of the verb, by virtue of word order it takes on emphasis. A good illustration of this is John 1:1c. The English versions typically have, “and the Word was God.” But in Greek, the word order has been reversed. It reads,
καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος
and God was the Word.
We know that “the Word” is the subject because it has the article, and we translate it accordingly: “and the Word was God.” Two questions, both of theological import, should come to mind: (1) Why was θεός thrown forward? and (2) why does it lack the article?
In brief, its emphatic position stresses its essence or quality: “What God was, the Word was” is how one translation brings out this force. Its lack of the article keeps us from identifying the person of the Word (Jesus Christ) with the person of “God” (the Father). That is to say, the word order tells us that Jesus Christ has all the divine attributes that the Father has; lack of the article tells us that Jesus Christ is not the Father. John’s wording here is beautifully compact! It is, in fact, one of the most elegantly terse theological statements one could ever find. As Martin Luther said, the lack of the article is against Sabellianism; the word order is against Arianism.
To state this another way, look at how the different Greek constructions would be rendered:
καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν ὁ θεός
“and the Word was the God” (i.e., the Father; Sabellianism)
καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν θεός
“and the Word was a god” (Arianism)
καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος
“and the Word was God” (orthodoxy).
Jesus Christ is God and has all the attributes that the Father has. But he is not the first person of the Trinity. All this is concisely affirmed in καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. Daniel B. Wallace
William D. Mounce, Basics of Biblical Greek Grammar, ed. Verlyn D. Verbrugge and Christopher A. Beetham, Fourth Edition. (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2019), 33–34.
Keep Smiling 😊
-
To stay in line with Wisdom, Image, Grace, Deity, Beginning, Creation, are all feminine nouns describing who? Jesus Christ, notice how Jesus decribe himself here:
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. (Matthew 23:37) A Hen Gathering Her Chicks
We see the feminine noun (theos) 'a god' can be used in John 1.
Strong's Concordance
theos: God, a god
Original Word: θεός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: theos
Phonetic Spelling: (theh'-os)
Definition: God, a god
Usage: (a) God, (b) a god, generally.
God is a title that can be applied to angels and also men who are in the judgement seat to judge. In the same manner as Moses was God to Aaron and Pharoh. Elohim can also be rendered in the feminine sense as God, a god, or gods. One should note that Jesus is not (theon) in John 1 which refers to 'the God' he was with or toward.
-
@BroRando October 12 We see the feminine noun (theos) 'a god' can be used in John 1.
The only Greek Feminine noun in John 1:1 is ἀρχή archē (Greek Strong's # 746). Theos θεός (Greek Strong's # 2316) is masculine.
@BroRando October 12 Strong's Concordance
@BroRando October 12 theos: God, a god
@BroRando October 12 Original Word: θεός, οῦ, ὁ
@BroRando October 12 Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
The quoted Strong's Concordance compilation has conflated Feminine (# 2299) & Masculine (# 2316) words into one entry:
Greek Strong's # 2299 θεά thĕa, theh-ah´; fem. of 2316; a female deity:—goddess.
Greek Strong's # 2316 θεός thĕŏs, theh´-os; of uncert. affin.; a deity, espec. (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; fig. a magistrate; by Heb. very:—× exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].
Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 36). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.
Searching Greek New Testament for <Lemma = lbs/el/θεά> (Feminine) finds one verse: Acts 19:27 reference to the great goddess Artemis.
@BroRando October 12 God is a title that can be applied to angels
Searching Lexham Hebrew Bible for <Root = lbs/he/אֱלֹהִים> WITHIN 7 WORDS (angel,messenger) does not find any verses where God is a title applied to any angel. Searching Greek New Testament for <Root = lbs/el/θεος> WITHIN 7 WORDS (angel, messenger) likewise does not find any verse where God is a title applied to any angel.
@BroRando October 12 One should note that Jesus is not (theon) in John 1 which refers to 'the God' he was with or toward.
Intriguing interpretation does not match John 1:1 Scripture text. Spiritual quality of The Word (Jesus) was being The God in beginning while The God was being more than The Word => The Word (Jesus) part of plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God was with The Father & Breath The Holy.
Keep Smiling 😊
-
Greek Strong's # 2299 θεά thĕa, theh-ah´; fem. of 2316; a female deity:—goddess.
Greek Strong's # 2316 θεός thĕŏs, theh´-os; of uncert. affin.; a deity, espec. (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; fig. a magistrate; by Heb. very:—× exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].
Strong's Concordance
theotés: deity
Original Word: θεότης, ητος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: theotés
Phonetic Spelling: (theh-ot'-ace)
Definition: deity
Usage: deity, Godhead.
Almost indentical render of Beginning that refers to the Word.
Strong's Concordance
arché: beginning, origin
Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: arché
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay')
Definition: beginning, origin
Usage: (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning.
HELPS Word-studies
746 arxḗ – properly, from the beginning (temporal sense), i.e. "the initial (starting) point"; (figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief (foremost), i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent").
Can you guess why Jesus is spoken of in the feminine sence??
-
@BroRando October 12 Original Word: θεότης, ητος, ἡ
Greek article ἡ is feminine. Searching Greek New Testament for <Lemma = lbs/el/θεότης> finds one verse: of diety in Colossians 2:9 that is in the sentence numbered Colossians 2:8-12 (LEB) => Beware lest anyone take you captive through philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world and not according to Christ, because in him all the fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you are filled in him, who is the head over every ruler and authority, in whom also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made by hands, by the removal of the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which also you were raised together with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Colossians 2:9 "in him the fullness of deity dwells bodily" is consistent with John 1:1 description about Spiritual quality of The Word (Jesus) was being The God in beginning while The God was being more than The Word => The Word (Jesus) part of plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God was with The Father & Breath The Holy.
@BroRando October 12 Original Word: θεός, οῦ, ὁ
Greek article ὁ is masculine => θεός is masculine. Found Acts 19:37 has Greek textual variants:
Acts 19:37
WH NU τὴν θεὸν ἡμῶν
“our god[dess]”
𝔓74 א A B 1739 (D* Ec την θεαν ημων our goddess)
nkjvmg rsv nrsv esv nasb niv tniv neb reb njb nab nlt hcsb net
variant/TR την θεαν υμων
“your goddess”
E* Maj
kjv nkjv nrsvmg hcsbmg
The change from ημων (“our”) to υμων (“your”) was made by scribes who thought Alexander (the speaker here), as a Jew, would not be calling Artemis (Diana) his goddess. But he was probably speaking as an Ephesian citizen when he said “our goddess.” (The feminine article την before θεον necessitates the translation “goddess.” The change from θεον to θεαν in D and E assures this meaning.) It should be noted that scribes had a way of showing that θεον (“God”) here does not signify the Deity, the God of the Jews and Christians. They could do this by not writing it as a nomen sacrum (Θ̅Ν̅); rather, they could write out the word in plene (θεον) and thereby show they did not consider the word to have divine titular status. English translators do the same by not capitalizing the first letter of “God”—hence, “god.” The scribes of 𝔓74 א A B D E, who normally used the nomen sacrum for θεος, wrote the word out in full here (θεον) in order to show that it is not a divine title.
Philip W. Comfort, New Testament Text and Translation Commentary: Commentary on the Variant Readings of the Ancient New Testament Manuscripts and How They Relate to the Major English Translations (Carol Stream, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., 2008), 413.
Note:: Acts 19:37 is the only Morph Search result from @D??F BEFORE 3 WORDS root:θεος in SBL Greek New Testament that had a feminine definite article for θεός. 2 Peter 1:3 has divine adjective (Greek Strong's # 2304) with feminine spelling to show qualification of the power (Greek Strong's # 1411 is feminine).
Keep Smiling 😊
-
And that's my point. Trinitarians claim to beleive in the Deity of Christ until it is revealed to them that Deity can be called SHE or HER. They make the false assumation that Jesus must be a female goddess or some sort which is completely false. It points to Creation as in being brought forth with labor pains. For we read about Jesus pre-human existance being the start of Creation.
Wisdom at Creation
(Proverbs 8:22 LEB) https://biblia.com/bible/leb/proverbs/8/22
Widsom, Deity, Grace all feminine nouns pointing Jesus Christ in being Created. (ie... to be)
22 “Yahweh created me, the first of his ways,
before his acts ⌊of old⌋.i
Feminine Nouns point to a CREATION. AS with Jesus being begotten. Since Jesus was begotten than Jesus did not ALWAYs exsist. But rather came into existance as the word eimi actaully means "to be".
HELPS Word-studies
1510 eimí (the basic Greek verb which expresses being, i.e. "to be") – am, is. 1510 (eimí), and its counterparts, (properly) convey "straight-forward" being (existence, i.e. without explicit limits).
Grace and Jesus Christ are synomous which means you can interchange one with the other WITHOUT changing the meaning.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
For by JESUS CHRIST you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Strong's Concordance
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Definition: grace, kindness
Usage: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.
So simply, yet difficult to SEE for the Blind of Heart..... Trintarians only pretend to beleive in the Deity of Christ and Grace unitl they find out that Grace and Deity are feminine nouns. Now what? They simply later reject Grace and Deity to make the false assumation that Jesus must be a goddess. They tend to be two faced and often deny scripture when confronted.
Why go from one extreme to the other you may ask? They think Jesus ALWAYS existed and is God. They often deny the two basic truths. Some trintarian translations have even removed 'begotten' from the Bible...
1) They oftern reject that God gave his only begotten son. (John 3:16)
2) They often reject that God sent his only begotten son. (1 John 4:9)
-
I am amazed how folks apparently interpret Prov 8 as speaking about the term "wisdom" as being a living person. The passage is NOT about "a person" - a woman. It IS about "a thing, a quality" - wisdom.
For emphasis, the text employs the figure of speech Prosopopœia; or, Personification; a literary device by which things are represented as persons.
Pros´-ō-po-poe´-i-a (i.e., pros´-o-po-peé-ya). Greek, προσωποποιΐα, from πρόσωπον (prosopon), face or person, and ποιεῖν (poiein), to make. A figure by which things are represented or spoken of as persons; or, by which we attribute intelligence, by words or actions, to inanimate objects or abstract ideas.
The figure is employed when the absent are spoken of (or to) as present; when the dead are spoken of as alive; or when anything (e.g., a country) is addressed as a person. Personification is the English name for the figure. (Bullinger, E. W. (1898). Figures of speech used in the Bible (S. 861). London; New York: Eyre & Spottiswoode; E. & J. B. Young & Co.)
The passage is about the quality of wisdom, which is represented as a female person telling her story.
Wisdom was a quality which God possesses and which He always has had and which He used when He created .... no Jesus, no woman or anyone else was involved in process of creation. No "grammatical gender word studies" needed.
Post edited by [Deleted User] on -
@Wolfgang posted:
The passage [Proverbs 8] is about the quality of wisdom, which is represented as a female person telling her story.
Wisdom was a quality which God possesses and which He always has had and which He used when He created .... no Jesus, no woman or anyone else was involved in process of creation. No "grammatical gender word studies" needed.
I think you've summarized the matter well, Wolfgang. In the Bible, wisdom is an ability or quality or character trait, not a person.
-
Observation about grammatical gender is every human body having all genders in variety of parts: (lacks correspondence with biological gender)
ear is neuter: Strong's Greek # 3775 οὖς [ous /ooce/]
eye is masculine: Strong's Greek # 3788 ὀφθαλμός [ophthalmos /of·thal·mos/]
foot is masculine: Strong's Greek # 4228 πούς [pous /pooce/]
hair is feminine: Strong's Greek # 2359 θρίξ, δέρρις [thrix /threeks/]
head is feminine: Strong's Greek # 2776 κεφαλή [kephale /kef·al·ay/]
mouth is neuter: Strong's Greek # 4750 στόμα [stoma /stom·a/]
James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).
Jewish audience reaction in John 10:33 The Jews answered him, “We are not going to stone you concerning a good deed, but concerning blasphemy, and because you, although you are a man, make yourself to be אֱלֹהִים God!” shows Jews understood John 10:30 as The Father and I are one יהוה
Jesus is/was the only human to live a Holy righteous life (never choose to sin against plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God), which is consistent with Jeremiah 23:5-6 “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’
If The Father and Jesus are One יהוה, then Proverbs 3:19 " יהוה Yahweh in wisdom founded the earth; he established the heavens in understanding." declares יהוה The Father and יהוה Jesus (The Word) in wisdom founded the earth, which is consistent with Jesus knowing אֱלֹהִים God's Glory (John 17:5) and אֱלֹהִים God's Love ❤️ before the foundation of the world.
Keep Smiling 😊
-
If The Father and Jesus are One יהוה, then ...
"IF ... " -- which they are NOT "One יהוה "!
In John 10:30 the word for "one" is εἷς (heis), this "being one" simply refers to agreement, of the same mind, etc. and not the word ἕν (hen) which might indicate "one" person, entity (as contrasted with more than one in number)
Trying to make one entity out of actually two or more entities will result in the one entity being a group, team, category, etc. Thus, when speaking of three persons or "voices" being only one "God" makes "God" to actually be a "choir" (a group, a family, a team), but not one individual singular entity as which God is spoken of throughout the Bible.
As for understanding the plural word Elohim correctly, observe its use in Hebrew idiom to emphasize God's majesty and might.
![[Deleted User]](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fcddec765be35f238a0844bd23f54b59/?default=https%3A%2F%2Fvanillicon.com%2F8ce8323767a20f0f45db140c4cd2cea1_200.png&rating=g&size=200)
