Is Jesus God?
Comments
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@C Mc posted:
A man of conviction is he. @Bill_Coley is a thinker and a "Master debater" by CD's Standards. @BroRando , you will have to answer his questions, or you won't have a JWs' "prayer-of-a-chance" in recruiting him. In short, you have probably blown your chance already.
Thanks for the generous assessment, CM.
As for the prospects of anyone's efforts to proselytize anyone else in these forums, I think it's fair to say they're not at all good. At the moment I can't recall posts from this edition of CD or its predecessor whose content suggested their authors were open to or would have even given an instant's consideration to moving their religious/faith community affiliation. That's just not why most people visit forums such as these.
I've been a baptized Jesus follower for 53 years, the most recent 39 of which while serving as a local church pastor. By now I have either found my spiritual home or conned myself into believing I have. In either case, when it comes to my affiliation, I'm not leaving home, just as, I'm confident, neither are you nor any of our regular or occasional posters.
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@BroRando October 18 And now, Father, you glorify me at your side with the glory that I had at your side before the world existed. (John 17:5 LEB)
@BroRando October 18 This sounds familar.... Proverbs 8:22 and Proverbs 8:26 and to mention Proverbs 8:30 for the kicker....
@BroRando October 18 The book of Proverbs says that long ago wisdom was beside Jehovah, the Creator, as “a master worker.” That certainly applies to Jesus.
Contrast Proverbs 8:22-23 “יהוה Yahweh created me, the first of his ways, before his acts of old. From eternity, I was set up from the first, from the beginning of the earth. (from the first, from the beginning of the earth) with Isaiah 44:6 Thus says יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts: “I am the first, and I am the last, and there is no god besides me. (I am the first, and I am the last) and Jesus speaking in Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” (am the first and the last precedes 'from the first'). Looking at Isaiah 44:6 also shows two subjects: יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts for singular verb says, which reminds me of Jesus, Yehoshua, name meaning יהוה Yahweh Salvation. Note: Jesus is Latin language translation of Aramaic Yehoshua.
Prophecy of Jeremiah 23:5-6 shows Jesus shares יהוה Yahweh name => “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’ (Hebrew has personal plural pronoun with righteousness that could be translated: ‘יהוה Yahweh Righteousness We.')
@BroRando October 18 Long before he came to earth, Jesus worked so closely with Jehovah that God’s Word says: “He is before all other things and by means of him all other things were made to exist.”—Colossians 1:17; Revelation 3:14.
We agree about Jesus humbly leaving heaven to be born on earth - Philippians 2:5-11
Fragment of a sentence numbered Colossians 1:17 in Society of Biblical Languages Greek New Testament (SBLGNT) does not have 'other' =>
καὶ αὐτός ἐστιν πρὸ πάντων καὶ τὰ πάντα ἐν αὐτῷ συνέστηκεν,
καὶ - and: conjunction, logical connective
αὐτός - self (emphatic): pronoun, personal, 3rd person, nominative, singular, masculine, intensive predicative
ἐστιν - to be: verb, present, active, indicative, 3rd person, singular (continuous action in present time => he is being)
πρὸ - before: preposition
πάντων - all: adjective, genitive, plural, masculine OR neuter
καὶ - and: conjunction, logical connective
τὰ - the: article, nominative, plural, neuter
πάντα - all: adjective, nominative, plural, neuter
ἐν - in: preposition
αὐτῷ - he: pronoun, personal, 3rd person, dative, singular, masculine
συνέστηκεν - to endure, to hold together: verb, perfect, active, indicative, 3rd person, singular (completed action with ongoing results)
FWIW: Koine Greek has many words whose range of meaning includes 'other': e.g. of the same kind, of a different kind, on the other side, ...
Two Textual Commentaries about Greek New Testament variants have nothing about Colossians 1:17 that simply implies 'other' is NOT in the original Greek letter written by Paul (so 'other' is an example of interpretative error showing personal belief being read into Scripture text).
LEB reflects Colossians 1:9-20 being one long Greek Sentence => Because of this also we, from the day we heard about it, did not cease praying for you, and asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual insight, so that you may live in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good deed and increasing in the knowledge of God, enabled with all power, according to his glorious might, for all steadfastness and patience with joy, giving thanks to the Father who has qualified you for a share of the inheritance of the saints in light, who has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have the redemption, the forgiveness of sins, who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him, and he himself is before all things, and in him all things are held together, and he himself is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he himself may become first in everything, because he was well pleased for all the fullness to dwell in him, and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by making peace through the blood of his cross, through him, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Have interest in discussion with you @BroRando while lacking desire to read more from JW organization. Simple test for God prophecy is 100 % accuracy: JW organization has failed One God prophecy test. Wikipedia => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses includes:
The Watch Tower Society has made various unfulfilled predictions about major biblical events such as Christ's Second Coming, the advent of God's Kingdom, and Armageddon.
Wikipedia includes Unfilled Watch Tower Society predictions (to me, JW organization is untrustworthy for declaring truth about One God)
And now, Father, you glorify me at your side with the glory that I had at your side before the world existed. (John 17:5 LEB)
@Wolfgang October 18 Unfortunately, a very misleading and trinitarian biased translation "I had at your side" ....
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus October 19 What is your translation ? (literally not seeing Koine Greek language basis for "very misleading ... translation" idea assertion along with not knowing what you mean by trinitarian - since "three voices [plural] in One unique God" idea is something your faith currently believes cannot be)
καὶ νῦν δόξασόν με σύ, πάτερ, παρὰ σεαυτῷ τῇ δόξῃ ᾗ εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι παρὰ σοί. (John 17:5 SBLGNT)
@Wolfgang October 19 there are a few to chose from:
NASB - “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
ASV - And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was
ESV And now, Father, aglorify me in your own presence with the glory bthat I had with you cbefore the world existed.
@Wolfgang October 19 Nothing like "at your side" (suggesting "living at your side") in German Bibles either ... thus the LEB you are using is rather dubious.
Noticed NASB, ASV, and ESV translated παρὰ as with => "with the glory which I had with thee (You singular) before the world was (existed)
LEB was designed for modern English reading beside original language Bible texts. We disagree about dubious for English translation of παρὰ.
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) - Now, Father, glorify me alongside yourself. Give me the same glory I had with you before the world existed.
NLT - Now, Father, bring me into the glory we shared before the world began.
@Wolfgang October 19 Furthermore, when you read carefully you can perhaps notice that Jesus is not saying that he as a living being lived with God before the world was, but rather that he already then "had glory with God" => how? Very easy to understand when considering 1Pe 1:20 (=> "foreknown by God").
LEB reflects 1 Peter 1:20 being part of 1 Peter 1:17-21 sentence => And if you call on him as Father who judges impartially according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves with fear during the time of your temporary residence, because you know that you were redeemed from your futile way of life inherited from your ancestors not with perishable things like silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb who was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has been revealed in these last times for you who through him are believing in אֱלֹהִים God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in אֱלֹהִים God.
Curious about your opinion of "like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb who was foreknown before the foundation of the world" ?
@Wolfgang October 19 There was no other living being at God's side before the world was ... as only ONE (not two, not three, not more) -- the Father, the One Who alone is true God) is mentioned in Scripture as existing before creation.
We agree One God was the only living being before the world was, but we disagree about number of voice(s) in One plural e-lo-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God.
Still a bit curious what "trinitarian" means to you ? possibly tri-theism (three gods for three voices whose intelligible words are in Scripture) ?
Keep Smiling 😊
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Jesus prayed, “Our Father in the Heavens, Let Your Name Be Sanctified” (Matthew 6:9) “Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,” (1 Peter 1:3)
“I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, because my name is in him.” (Exodus 23:20-21)
- Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to him. (Deuteronomy 18:15)
- While he was still speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and look! a voice out of the cloud said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.” (Matthew 17:5)
- Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one who has been chosen. Listen to him.” (Luke 9:35)
- My God will reject them, For they have not listened to him, And they will become fugitives among the nations. (Hosea 9:17)
- See that you do not refuse to listen to the one who is speaking. For if those who refused to listen to the one giving divine warning on earth did not escape, how much more will we not escape if we turn away from him who speaks from the heavens! (Hebrews 12:25)
- But all those listening to him were in constant amazement at his understanding and his answers. (Luke 2:47)
Refuse to listen to the One Sent in God's Name, suffer the consuqence. Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, because my name is in him.” (Exodus 23:20-21)
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Revelation 22:16 LEB => “I, Jesus, sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
My understanding is root reflects Jesus (part of One plural אלהים God) created everything, which included design for Jesus (The Word) voice in One plural אלהים God to take on human flesh, become a physical human descendant of David.
Walking in the Dust of Rabbi Jesus: How the Jewish Words of Jesus Can Change Your Life Chapter 6: The Mystery of the Name includes:
Hallowing the Name
What then, does it mean, to “hallow” or sanctify God’s name? Obviously it literally means to make God’s name holy. But here, the word name really refers to God’s reputation. The phrases “hallowed be your name,” “your kingdom come,” and “your will be done on earth” are related to each other in meaning. All of them express the desire that God’s reputation will grow on earth, that people will accept God’s reign over their lives and desire to do his will.
You might not think that God’s reputation would be important to him, but the idea of his reputation expanding throughout the world is a central theme of the biblical story. At first, God taught only Israel how to live, but he intended that they’d be a “light to the nations.” In a world where other nations prostituted themselves to idols and slit their babies’ throats on the altars of demons, the Israelites were to worship the true God and show how he wanted them to live.
Lois Tverberg and Ray Vander Laan, Walking in the Dust of Rabbi Jesus: How the Jewish Words of Jesus Can Change Your Life (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2012).
Exodus 23:20-21 angelic action was completed over 3,200 years ago as Israelites entered the land promised by אלהים God. Exodus 23:20-24:11 => “ ‘Look, I am about to send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. Be attentive to him and listen to his voice; do not rebel against him, because he will not forgive your transgression, for my name is in him. But if you listen attentively to his voice and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and a foe to your foes. When my angel goes before you and brings you to the Amorites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, I will wipe them out. “ ‘You will not bow to their gods, and you will not serve them, and you will not act according to their actions, because you will utterly demolish them, and you will utterly break their stone pillars. And you will serve יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God, and he will bless your bread and your water, and I will remove sickness from among you. There will be no one suffering miscarriage or infertile in your land. I will make full the number of your days. “ ‘I will release my terror before you, and I will throw into confusion all the people against whom you come, and I will make all your enemies turn their back to you. And I will send the hornet before you, and it will drive out the Hivites, the Canaanites, and the Hittites from before you. I will not drive them out from before you in one year, lest the land become a desolation and the wild animals multiply against you. Little by little I will drive them out from before you until you are fruitful and take possession of the land. “ ‘And I will set your boundary from the Red Sea and up to the sea of the Philistines and from the desert up to the river, because I will give the inhabitants of the land into your hand, and you will drive them out from before you. You will not make a covenant with them and with their gods. They will not live in your land, lest they cause you to sin against me when you serve their gods, for it will be a snare to you.’ ” And to Moses he said, “Go up to יהוה Yahweh — you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy from the elders of Israel — and you will worship at a distance. And Moses alone will come near to יהוה Yahweh, and they will not come near, and the people will not go up with him.” And Moses came, and he told the people all the words of יהוה Yahweh and all the regulations. And all the people answered with one voice, and they said, “All the words that יהוה Yahweh has spoken we will do.” And Moses wrote all the words of יהוה Yahweh, and he rose early in the morning, and he built an altar at the base of the mountain and set up twelve memorial stones for the twelve tribes of Israel. And he sent young men from the Israelites, and they offered burnt offerings, and they sacrificed sacrifices as fellowship offerings to יהוה Yahweh using bulls. And Moses took half of the blood, and he put it in bowls, and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. And he took the scroll of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people, and they said, “All that יהוה Yahweh has spoken we will do, and we will listen.” And Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, and he said, “Look, the blood of the covenant that יהוה Yahweh has made with you in accordance with all these words.” And Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy from the elders of Israel went up. And they saw the אלהים God of Israel, and what was under his feet was like sapphire tile work and like the very heavens for clearness. And toward the leaders of the Israelites he did not stretch out his hand, and they beheld אלהים God, and they ate, and they drank.
Jewish Torah scroll does not have chapter and verse numbering so context must be known to find a passage.
Deuteronomy 18:15 LEB => “יהוה Yahweh your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your midst, from your countrymen, and to him you shall listen.
Mount of Transfiguration had three great Jewish prophets:
Matthew 17:1-8 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord in LXX) => And after six days Jesus took along Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothing became bright as the light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with him. So Peter answered and said to Jesus, “יהוה Lord, it is good that we are here! If you want, I will make here three shelters, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to him!” And when the disciples heard this, they fell down on their faces and were extremely frightened. And Jesus came and touched them and said, “Get up and do not be afraid.” And when they lifted up their eyes they saw no one except him—Jesus alone.
Mark 9:2-8 LEB => And after six days, Jesus took along Peter and James and John, and led them to a high mountain by themselves alone. And he was transfigured before them, and his clothing became radiant—extremely white, like no cloth refiner on earth can make so white. And Elijah appeared to them together with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus. And Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good that we are here! And let us make three shelters, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” (For he did not know what he should answer, because they were terrified.) And a cloud came, overshadowing them, and a voice came from the cloud, “This is my beloved Son. Listen to him!” And suddenly, looking around, they no longer saw anyone with them but Jesus alone.
Luke 9:28-36 LEB => Now it happened that about eight days after these words, he took along Peter and John and James and went up on the mountain to pray. And as he was praying, the appearance of his face became different, and his clothing became white, gleaming like lightning. And behold, two men were talking with him, who were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and were speaking about his departure which he was about to fulfill in Jerusalem. Now Peter and those with him were very sleepy, but when they became fully awake, they saw his glory and the two men who were standing with him. And it happened that as they were going away from him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is good for us to be here. And let us make three shelters, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah,” not knowing what he was saying. And while he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered into the cloud. And a voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to him!” And after the voice had occurred, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silent and told no one in those days anything of what they had seen.
God's voice from heaven describes Jesus as “This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to him!” (God's voice did not describe Jesus as an angel).
Historical context for Hosea is 10 tribes of Israel who have chosen to sin against יהוה Yahweh אלהים God. Hosea uses love story imagery of a faithful husband and adulterous wife to illustrate יהוה Yahweh אלהים God's Love for Israel with desire for nation of Israel to return to loving יהוה Yahweh אלהים God. Hosea prophecies about sin punishment soon to transpire by Assyrian invasion and carrying off (about 2,742 years ago).
Hebrews 12:18-29 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => For you have not come to something that can be touched, and to a burning fire, and to darkness, and to gloom, and to a whirlwind, and to the noise of a trumpet, and to the sound of words which those who heard begged that not another word be spoken to them. For they could not endure what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned.” And the spectacle was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am terrified and trembling.” But you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living אלהים God, to the heavenly Jerusalem, and to tens of thousands of angels, to the festal gathering and assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to אלהים God the judge of all, and to the spirits of righteous people made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks better than Abel’s does. Watch out that you do not refuse the one who is speaking! For if those did not escape when they refused the one who warned them on earth, much less will we escape, if we reject the one who warns from heaven, whose voice shook the earth at that time, but now he has promised, saying, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also heaven.” Now the phrase “yet once more” indicates the removal of what is shaken, namely, things that have been created, in order that the things that are not shaken may remain. Therefore, since we are receiving an unshakable kingdom, let us be thankful, through which let us serve אלהים God acceptably, with awe and reverence. For indeed our אלהים God is a consuming fire.
Haggai 2:1-9 LEB => In the seventh month on the twenty-first day, the word of יהוה Yahweh came through Haggai the prophet, saying, “Speak now to Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and to the remnant of the people, saying, ‘Who among you is left that saw this house in its former glory? And how do you see it now? Does it seem like nothing to you? ‘But now take courage, Zerubbabel,’ declares יהוה Yahweh. ‘Take courage, Joshua son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and take courage, all the people of the land,’ declares יהוה Yahweh. ‘Do the work, because I am with you,’ declares יהוה Yahweh of hosts, ‘according to the promise that I covenanted with you when you came out of Egypt. My spirit is with you; do not be afraid.’ For thus says יהוה Yahweh of hosts: ‘Once again, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and dry land. I will shake all the nations so that the treasure of all the nations will come, and I will fill this house with glory,’ says יהוה Yahweh of hosts. ‘The silver is mine and the gold is mine,’ declares יהוה Yahweh of hosts. ‘The latter glory of this house will be greater than the former,’ says יהוה Yahweh of hosts, ‘and in this place I will give peace’ declares יהוה Yahweh of hosts.’ ”
FYI: personally believe יהוה Yahweh of hosts is a title for Jesus (The Word), who is one voice in plural אלהים God.
Luke 2:41-52 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => And his parents went every year to Jerusalem for the feast of the Passover. And when he was twelve years old, they went up according to the custom of the feast. And after the days were completed, while they were returning, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem. And his parents did not know it, but believing him to be in the group of travelers, they went a day’s journey. And they began searching for him among their relatives and their acquaintances, and when they did not find him, they returned to Jerusalem to search for him. And it happened that after three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting in the midst of the teachers and listening to them and asking them questions. And all who heard him were amazed at his insight and his answers. And when they saw him, they were astounded and his mother said to him, “Child, why have you done this to us? Look, your father and I have been searching for you anxiously!” And he said to them, “Why were you searching for me? Did you not know that it was necessary for me to be in the house of my Father?” And they did not understand the statement that he spoke to them. And he went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was submitting to them. And his mother treasured all these things in her heart. And Jesus was advancing in wisdom and stature and in favor with אלהים God and with people.
Keep Smiling 😊
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Yes... yet Jesus was treated as a criminal and they would not listen to him. Jehovah Witnesses are alone in sharing (Matthew 24:14)
- My God will reject them, For they have not listened to him, And they will become fugitives among the nations. (Hosea 9:17)
- See that you do not refuse to listen to the one who is speaking. For if those who refused to listen to the one giving divine warning on earth did not escape, how much more will we not escape if we turn away from him who speaks from the heavens! (Hebrews 12:25)
- So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a Name more excellent than theirs. (Hebrews 1:4)
- I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, because my Name is in him. (Exodus 23:20-21)
- I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own Name, which you have Given Me, so that they may be one just as we are one. (John 17:11)
- Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothersi and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God. (John 20:17)
The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the Name of my God and the Name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from My God, and My Own New Name. (Rev 3:12)
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Jewish religious leaders heard Jesus speak, but refused to believe who Jesus is. Luke 22:66-71 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => And when day came, the council of elders of the people gathered, both chief priests and scribes, and they led him away to their Sanhedrin, saying, “If you are the Christ, tell us!” But he said to them, “If I tell you, you will never believe, and if I ask you, you will never answer! But from now on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God.” So they all said, “Are you then the Son of אלהים God?” And he said to them, “You say that I am.” And they said, “Why do we have need of further testimony? For we ourselves have heard it from his mouth!”
Jewish religious leaders brought Jesus to Pilate, the Governor. John 18:28-38 LEB => Then they brought Jesus from Caiaphas to the governor’s residence. Now it was early, and they did not enter into the governor’s residence so that they would not be defiled, but could eat the Passover. So Pilate came outside to them and said, “What accusation do you bring against this man?” They answered and said to him, “If this man were not doing evil, we would not have handed him over to you!” So Pilate said to them, “You take him and judge him according to your law!” The Jews said to him, “It is not permitted for us to kill anyone,” in order that the word of Jesus would be fulfilled that he had spoken, indicating by what sort of death he was going to die. Then Pilate entered again into the governor’s residence and summoned Jesus and said to him, “Are you the king of the Jews?” Jesus replied, “Do you say this from yourself, or have others said this to you about me?” Pilate replied, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your people and the chief priests handed you over to me! What have you done?” Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews. But now my kingdom is not from here.” Then Pilate said to him, “So then you are a king!” Jesus replied, “You say that I am a king. For this reason I was born, and for this reason I have come into the world: in order that I can testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice.” Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews and said to them, “I find no basis for an accusation against him.
What Jewish law in the Books of Moses was the reason for Jewish religious leaders wanting Jesus crucified ? John 19:4-7 LEB => And Pilate came outside again and said to them, “Behold, I am bringing him outside to you, so that you will know that I find no basis for an accusation against him.” Then Jesus came outside wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe, and he said to them, “Behold the man!” So when they saw him, the chief priests and the officers shouted, saying, “Crucify! Crucify!” Pilate said to them, “You take him and crucify him! For I do not find a basis for an accusation against him.” The Jews replied to him, “We have a law, and according to the law he ought to die, because he made himself out to be the Son of אלהים God!”
Phrase "Son of Man" spoken by Jesus refers to vision written in Daniel 7:13-14 LEB => “I continued watching in the visions of the night, and look, with the clouds of heaven one like a son of man was coming, and he came to the Ancient of Days, and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and kingship that all the peoples, the nations, and languages would serve him; his dominion is a dominion without end that will not cease, and his kingdom is one that will not be destroyed.
"Son of Man" prophecy in Daniel 7:13-14 has fulfillment (All authority in heaven and on earth given to King Jesus) included in Matthew 28:16-20 LEB => So the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated for them. And when they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted. And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you all the days until the end of the age.”
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus ... why do you base your beliefs about Jesus on the false ideas of Jewish religious leaders,who were the enemies of Christ???
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Not all Jews then or now are against or opposed to Jesus the Christ. e.g. Messianic Jews. CM
PS. Short and to the point. CM
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@Wolfgang October 28 @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus ... why do you base your beliefs about Jesus on the false ideas of Jewish religious leaders,who were the enemies of Christ???
Primary basis for my faith belief in יהוה Lord Jesus is the rich man's tomb in Jerusalem not having the dead body of Jesus (while did have burial cloth per John 20:5). Secondary is what Jesus said about Himself: e.g. Priestly prayer in John 17 includes:
And now, Father, you glorify me at your side with the glory that I had at your side before the world existed. (John 17:5 LEB)
“Father, those whom you have given to me—I want that those also may be with me where I am, in order that they may see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24 LEB)
Also Jesus described Jewish religious leaders not loving אלהים God most of all so would not believe Jesus in John 8:39-59 => They answered and said to him, “Abraham is our father!” Jesus said to them, “If you are children of Abraham, do the deeds of Abraham! But now you are seeking to kill me, a man who spoke to you the truth which I heard from אלהים God. This Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father!” They said to him, “We were not born from sexual immorality! We have one father, אלהים God!” Jesus said to them, “If אלהים God were your father, you would love me, for I have come forth from אלהים God and have come. For I have not come from myself, but that one sent me. Why do you not understand my way of speaking? Because you are not able to listen to my message. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father! That one was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand firm in the truth, because truth is not in him. Whenever he speaks the lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I am telling the truth, you do not believe me. Who among you convicts me concerning sin? If I am telling the truth, why do you not believe me? The one who is from אלהים God listens to the words of אלהים God. Because of this you do not listen—because you are not of אלהים God.” The Jews answered and said to him, “Do we not correctly say that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?” Jesus replied, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me! But I do not seek my own glory. There is one who seeks and judges! Truly, truly I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never experience death forever.” The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham and the prophets died, and you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death forever.’ You are not greater than our father Abraham who died, are you? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself to be?” Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. The one who glorifies me is my Father, about whom you say, ‘He is our אלהים God.’ And you have not known him, but I know him. And if I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you! But I know him and I keep his word. Abraham your father rejoiced that he would see my day, and he saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I am!” Then they picked up stones in order to throw them at him. But Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple courts.
Simple test of a prophet speaking for יהוה Lord אלהים God is 100% accuracy. Jesus predicted crucifixion death and resurrection on the third day:
Matthew 1613-23 LEB => Now when Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he began asking his disciples, saying, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” And they said, Some say John the Baptist, but others Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” And Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living אלהים God!” And Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overpower it! I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you release on earth will be released in heaven.” Then he commanded the disciples that they should tell no one that he was the Christ. From that time on Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised on the third day. And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, אלהים God forbid, יהוה Lord! This will never happen to you!” But he turned around and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a cause for stumbling to me, because you are not intent on the things of אלהים God, but the things of people!”
Matthew 17:22-23 LEB => Now as they were gathering in Galilee, Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men, and they will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised.” And they were extremely distressed.
Matthew 20:17-19 LEB => And as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples by themselves and said to them on the way, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death, and will hand him over to the Gentiles to mock him and flog him and crucify him, and on the third day he will be raised.”
Luke 11:29-32 LEB => And as the crowds were increasing, he began to say, “This generation is an evil generation! It demands a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah! For just as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also the Son of Man will be to this generation. The queen of the south will rise up at the judgment with the people of this generation and condemn them, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, something* greater than Solomon is here! The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something* greater than Jonah is here! (* Here “something” is supplied in the translation because the adjective is neuter gender)
Jewish religious leaders are a sad warning and reminder to guard my heart to Love אלהים God with all of me in all life domains: emotional (heart), mind (mental), soul (social), strength (physical), and worship (spiritual), which can be summed up: Be Holy as אלהים God is Holy. Jewish religious leaders had spent years in study, which included memorizing the Books of Moses (Torah is basis for written law) plus Jewish oral traditions. Matthew 23 has Woes from אלהים God describing scribes and Pharisees. Daily repetition of The Shema had become vain as scribes and Pharisees chose to love something more than אלהים God. Our spiritual adversary, the father of lies, always wants to disrupt loving אלהים God most of all.
Keep Smiling 😊
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Many people from different nations are learning about the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 1:3) Not only do I have Jewish and Arabic Brothers but we all worship the One True God Jehovah. (Psalms 83:18)
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Psalm 19:1-14 LEB => The heavens are telling the glory of אל God, and the firmament proclaims the work of his hands. Every day they pour forth speech, and every night they tell knowledge. There is no speech and there are no words; their sound is inaudible. Yet in all the world their line goes out, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has pitched a tent for the sun, and it is like a bridegroom who comes out of his bridal chamber. It is glad like a strong man to run its course. Its rising is from one end of the heavens and its circuit to the other end of them; and nothing is hidden from its heat. The law of יהוה Yahweh is perfect, reviving life. The testimony of יהוה Yahweh is firm, making wise the simple. The precepts of יהוה Yahweh are right, making the heart rejoice. The command of יהוה Yahweh is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of יהוה Yahweh is pure, enduring forever. The ordinances of יהוה Yahweh are true; they are righteous altogether, more desirable than gold, even much fine gold; and sweeter than honey, even honey in the comb. Moreover, your servant is warned by them; in keeping them is great reward. Who can perceive his errors? Acquit me from hidden faults. Also, keep back your servant from arrogant sins; let them not rule over me. Then I shall be blameless, and I shall be innocent of great transgression. Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your presence, O יהוה Yahweh, my rock and my redeemer.
Note: אל is the abbreviation (1st syllable) for One plural אלהים God, who is Unique.
Revelation 3:7-13 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: “This is what the holy one, the true one, the one who has the key of David, the one who opens and no one can shut, and who shuts and no one can open, says: ‘I know your works (behold, I have put before you an opened door that no one is able to shut) that you have a little strength, and have kept my word, and did not deny my name. Behold, I am causing those of the synagogue of Satan, the ones who call themselves Jews and are not, but are lying—behold, I will make them come and kneel down before your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. Because you have kept the word of my patient endurance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to put to the test those who live on the earth. I am coming quickly! Hold fast to what you have, so that no one may take away your crown. The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my אלהים God, and he will never go outside again, and I will write on him the name of my אלהים God and the name of the city of my אלהים God, the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my אלהים God, and my new name. The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’
Unclean spirit (demon) recognized The Holy One of אלהים God (Jesus) in Mark 1:22-28 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => And they were amazed at his teaching, because he was teaching them like one who had authority, and not like the scribes. And so then there was a man in their synagogue with an unclean spirit, and he cried out, saying, “Leave us alone, Jesus the Nazarene! Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of אלהים God!” And Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be silent, and come out of him!” And after convulsing him and crying out with a loud voice, the unclean spirit came out of him. And they were all amazed, so that they began to discuss with one another, saying, “What is this? A new teaching with authority! He even commands the unclean spirits and they obey him.” And the report about him then went out everywhere in the whole surrounding region of Galilee.
The Holy One (Jesus) is Righteous, which is consistent with Jeremiah 23:5-6 LEB => “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’
Note: last phrase in Jeremiah 23:5-6 could translate plural pronoun attached to Righteousness as => ‘יהוה Yahweh is Righteousness We.’
Jewish religious leaders wanted to put Jesus to death for blasphemy in John 10:22-42 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => Then the feast of the Dedication took place in Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the Portico of Solomon. So the Jews surrounded him and began to say to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly!” Jesus answered them, “I told you and you do not believe! The deeds that I do in the name of my Father, these testify about me. But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep! My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish forever, and no one will seize them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can seize them from the Father’s hand. The Father and I are one.” Then the Jews picked up stones again so that they could stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good deeds from the Father. For which one of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “We are not going to stone you concerning a good deed, but concerning blasphemy, and because you, although you are a man, make yourself to be אלהים God!” Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? If he called them ‘gods’ to whom the word of אלהים God came—and the scripture cannot be broken—do you say about he whom the Father set apart and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of אלהים God’? If I do not do the deeds of my Father, do not believe me. But if I am doing them, even if you do not believe me, believe the deeds, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” So they were seeking again to seize him, and he departed out of their hand. And he went away again on the other side of the Jordan, to the place where John was baptizing at an earlier time, and he stayed there. And many came to him and began to say, “John performed no sign, but everything John said about this man was true!” And many believed in him there.
Note: Jewish translation of Psalm 82:6 plural אלהים into LXX is gods (Θεοί theoi is nominative, plural, masculine spelling of θεός theos). Scripture scrolls when Jesus walked on earth do not have chapter & verse numbering. Hence reference to Psalm 82:6 'gods' would have brought Psalm 82 context to mind in the Jewish religious leaders (had to know contextual wording to find a Scripture passage).
Pilate asked "What is Truth ?" after Jewish Religious Leaders brought Jesus to Pilate in John 18:28-38 LEB => Then they brought Jesus from Caiaphas to the governor’s residence. Now it was early, and they did not enter into the governor’s residence so that they would not be defiled, but could eat the Passover. So Pilate came outside to them and said, “What accusation do you bring against this man?” They answered and said to him, “If this man were not doing evil, we would not have handed him over to you!” So Pilate said to them, “You take him and judge him according to your law!” The Jews said to him, “It is not permitted for us to kill anyone,” in order that the word of Jesus would be fulfilled that he had spoken, indicating by what sort of death he was going to die. Then Pilate entered again into the governor’s residence and summoned Jesus and said to him, “Are you the king of the Jews?” Jesus replied, “Do you say this from yourself, or have others said this to you about me?” Pilate replied, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your people and the chief priests handed you over to me! What have you done?” Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews. But now my kingdom is not from here.” Then Pilate said to him, “So then you are a king!” Jesus replied, “You say that I am a king. For this reason I was born, and for this reason I have come into the world: in order that I can testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice.” Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews and said to them, “I find no basis for an accusation against him.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus claimed
Note: אל is the abbreviation (1st syllable) for One plural אלהים God, who is Unique.
There is NOTHING in these verses about a "PLURAL God" --- The word "one" simply indicates that the God spoken of is a singular Being -- a HE Who is not two, three, or more forming a group, (a team, a choir, etc.) of multiple voices or persons ... nor does He have a psychological problem known as "split personalities".
Once again, you are fabricating a non-biblical theology based on a false foundation ... in this case, that a noun in grammatical plural form refers to plural persons/voices. However, you do not like the idea that the outcome of your interpretation would really be THREE Gods. So then, you just claim this "God" must be a group, a unit, a family, a choir, or similar of a plurality of individuals. You don't like "persons" as that would be again too obviously make really "three Gods", so you obscure this by calling these "voices" (instead of "persons". Nice try to hide the reality of your theology ... still THREE "singers/speakers" and not one.
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@Wolfgang said to @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus :
There is NOTHING in these verses about a "PLURAL God" --- The word "one" simply indicates that the God spoken of is a singular Being -- a HE Who is not two, three, or more forming a group, (a team, a choir, etc.) of multiple voices or persons ... nor does He have a psychological problem known as "split personalities".
Not so fast, Mr. @Wolfgang! In John 10:31-38, Jesus Himself quotes Psalm 82:6 as proof of His claims to divinity.
Wolfgang, you said there is nothing? Jesus appealed to the Old Testament Scriptures while teaching and considered them authoritative. This is most evident in John 10:34-35. Accompanying Jesus' usage is the telling remark: "'And scripture cannot be broken [luo]'" (v. 35). It cannot be luo loosed, broken, repealed, annulled, or abolished—even to the specific words.
In short, Jesus considered the Old Testament canon as being the supreme authority in judging matters. CM
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Do you feel like you are arguing at noon on a hot summer day about whether the sun exists?
Denial in the heat of evidence isn't lack of knowledge, it is refusal to believe. Accept that. You can't change it.
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Not so fast, Mr. @Wolfgang! In John 10:31-38, Jesus Himself quotes Psalm 82:6 as proof of His claims to divinity.
Wolfgang, you said there is nothing? Jesus appealed to the Old Testament Scriptures while teaching and considered them authoritative. This is most evident in John 10:34-35. Accompanying Jesus' usage is the telling remark: "'And scripture cannot be broken [luo]'" (v. 35). It cannot be luo loosed, broken, repealed, annulled, or abolished—even to the specific words.
In short, Jesus considered the Old Testament canon as being the supreme authority in judging matters. CM
And what does that have to do with my post to which you were replying??? Nothing !!
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Do you feel like you are arguing at noon on a hot summer day about whether the sun exists?
Denial in the heat of evidence isn't lack of knowledge, it is refusal to believe. Accept that. You can't change it.
You are talking to the man in the mirror ...
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Holy Scripture has a mixture of grammatically singular and plural words inspired by One Holy God to describe One Holy plural unique God.
Deuteronomy 6:4 => Sh’ma ( שמע - Hear & Obey ), Yisra’el! ( ישראל - Israel ) Adonai ( Lord spoken for יהוה ) Eloheinu ( plural אלהים God with plural 1st person pronoun suffix ), Adonai ( Lord spoken for יהוה ) echad ( אחד - One, Only, Unique )
Eloheinu can be translated 'our God', 'God of us' OR 'God We', similar to last phrase translation ‘יהוה Yahweh is Righteousness We.’ (plural 1st person pronoun suffix) in Jeremiah 23:5-6 LEB => “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’
Genesis 1:26 LEB => And אלהים God (plural) said, “Let us (plural) make (plural) humankind in our (plural) image and according to our (plural) likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of heaven, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every moving thing that moves upon the earth.”
Genesis 3:22 LEB => And יהוה Yahweh אלהים God (plural) said, “Look—the man has become as one of us (plural), to know good and evil. What if he stretches out his hand and takes also from the tree of life and eats, and lives forever?”
Isaiah 41:1-26 LEB => Listen to me in silence, coastlands, and let nations renew their strength. Let them approach, then let them speak; let us draw near together for judgment. Who has roused salvation from the east, summoned him to his foot, gives nations in his presence, and subjugates kings? He makes them like the dust with his sword, like scattered stubble with his bow. He pursues them and passes on in peace; he does not enter the path with his feet. Who has accomplished and done this, calling the generations from the beginning? I, יהוה Yahweh, am first; and I am the one with the last. The coastlands have seen and are afraid; the ends of the earth tremble. They have drawn near, and they have come. Each one helps his neighbor; he says to his brother, “Take courage!” And the artisan encourages the goldsmith, the one who makes smooth with the hammer encourages the one who strikes the anvil, saying of the soldering, “It is good!” And they strengthen it with nails so it cannot be knocked over. But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you, the offspring of Abraham my friend, you whom I grasped from the ends of the earth and called from its remotest parts and told, “You are my servant; I have chosen you and I have not rejected you.” You must not fear, for I am with you; you must not be afraid, for I am your אלהים God (plural). I will strengthen you, indeed I will help you, indeed I will take hold of you with the right hand of my salvation. Look! All those who are angry with you shall be ashamed and humiliated; your opponents shall be like nothing and shall become lost. You shall seek them, but you shall not find them; your opponents shall be like nothing, and the men of your war like nothing. For I, יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God (plural), am grasping your right hand; it is I who say to you, “You must not fear; I myself, I will help you. You must not fear, O worm of Jacob; people of Israel, I myself, I will help you,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “and your redeemer is the holy one of Israel. Look! I will make you into a new sharp threshing sledge, with sharp edges. You shall thresh and crush the mountains, and you shall make the hills like chaff. You shall winnow them and the wind shall carry them, and the tempest shall scatter them. And you yourself shall rejoice in Yahweh; you shall boast in the holy one of Israel. The poor and the needy are seeking water and there is none; their tongue is dried up with thirst. I, יהוה Yahweh, will answer them; I, the אלהים God (plural) of Israel, will not forsake them. I will open rivers on the barren heights and fountains in the midst of the valleys. I will make the wilderness like a pool of water and the land of dryness like springs of water. I will put the cedar, acacia, myrtle, and olive oil tree in the wilderness; I will set the cypress, elm, and box tree together in the desert so that they may see and know, and take to heart and understand together that the hand of יהוה Yahweh has done this, and the holy one of Israel has created it.” “Present your legal case,” says יהוה Yahweh. “Bring your evidence,” says the king of Jacob. Let them bring them, and let them tell us (plural) what will happen. Tell us (plural) what the former things are so that we (plural) may take them to our (plural) heart and know (plural) their outcome. Declare to us (plural) the things to come; tell us (plural) the things coming hereafter, that we (plural) may know (plural) that you are אלהים gods. Indeed, do good or do evil, that we (plural) may be afraid and see together. Look! you are nothing, and your work is something worthless; whoever chooses you is an abomination. I stirred up one from the north, and he has come from the rising of the sun. He shall call on my name, and he shall come on officials as on mortar, and as the potter treads clay. Who declared it from the beginning so that we might know, and beforehand so that we might say, “He is right!” Indeed, there was no one who declared it; Indeed, there was no one who proclaimed it. Indeed there was no one who heard your words.
Unclean spirit (demon) recognized The Holy One of אלהים God (Jesus) in Mark 1:22-28 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => And they were amazed at his teaching, because he was teaching them like one who had authority, and not like the scribes. And so then there was a man in their synagogue with an unclean spirit, and he cried out, saying, “Leave us alone, Jesus the Nazarene! Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of אלהים God!” And Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be silent, and come out of him!” And after convulsing him and crying out with a loud voice, the unclean spirit came out of him. And they were all amazed, so that they began to discuss with one another, saying, “What is this? A new teaching with authority! He even commands the unclean spirits and they obey him.” And the report about him then went out everywhere in the whole surrounding region of Galilee.
Voices literally reflects what Scripture said/says. In my readings & people encounters, have learned Breath The Holy is everywhere, but does not have a physical image while does have an intelligent loving voice. A human person has their own human body.
2 Chronicles 18:12-34 LEB => Then the messenger who went to call Micaiah said to him, “Behold, the words of the prophets are good with one voice to the king. Please let your word be as one with them and speak good.” But Micaiah said, “As יהוה Yahweh lives, only what my אלהים God has said, that will I speak.” And when he had come to the king, the king said to him, “Micaiah, shall we go to Ramoth-Gilead to war or shall I cease?” And he said, “Go up and triumph! They shall be given into your hand.” But the king said to him, “How many times shall I make you swear that you speak nothing except the truth in the name of יהוה Yahweh?” Then he said, “I saw all Israel scattered upon the mountains like sheep that had no shepherd. And יהוה Yahweh said, ‘These have no masters; let each of them return to his own house in peace.’ ” Then the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “Did I not say to you he would not prophesy good concerning me, but only disaster?” Then Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of יהוה Yahweh: I saw יהוה Yahweh sitting upon his throne with all the host of heaven standing on his right and on his left. And יהוה Yahweh said, ‘Who will entice Ahab the king of Israel that he would go up and fall at Ramoth-Gilead?’ And one said this, and another said that. Then a spirit came forth and stood before יהוה Yahweh and said, ‘I will entice him.’ Then יהוה Yahweh said to him, ‘By what means?’ Then he said, ‘I will go forth and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You will entice him and will also succeed. Go out and do so.’ So now, behold, יהוה Yahweh has put a spirit of deception into the mouths of these your prophets. יהוה Yahweh has spoken disaster against you.” Then Zedekiah the son of Kenaanah came near and struck Micaiah on the cheek and said, “Which way did the Spirit of יהוה Yahweh come from me to speak to you?” Then Micaiah said, “Behold, you will see on that day when you go into a private room to hide yourself.” Then the king of Israel said, “Take Micaiah and return him to Amon the commander of the city and to Jehoash the son of the king, and say, ‘Thus says the king: “Put this one into the prison house, and let him eat a meager ration of bread and water until I return in peace.” ’ ” And Micaiah said, “If you surely return in peace יהוה Yahweh has not spoken with me.” Then he said, “Hear, peoples, all of them!” Then the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah went up to Ramoth-Gilead. And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “I will disguise myself and go into battle, but you, wear your garments.” So the king of Israel disguised himself, and they went to war. Now the king of Aram had commanded the commanders of his chariots, saying, “Do not fight with the small or the great, but only with the king of Israel.” And it happened that when the commanders of the chariots saw Jehoshaphat, then they said, “It is the king of Israel!” And they turned against him to fight. Then Jehoshaphat cried out and יהוה Yahweh helped him. אלהים God drove them away from him. And it happened that when the commanders of the chariots saw that it was not the king of Israel, they turned back from following him. Now a certain man drew the bow at random and struck the king of Israel between the soldering of his breastplate armor. Then he said to the chariot driver, “Turn around; get me away from the war camp, for I am wounded.” And the battle went on that day, and the king of Israel was propped up in the chariot facing Aram until the evening. And he died at the time of the going down of the sun.
Simple test for True God prophetic announcements is 100% accuracy. Also noted אלהים God allowed a spirit of deception so unrighteous King Ahab of Israel died, which proved the prophets declaring "good" to King Ahab were wrong (spiritually deceived). Our spiritual adversary, the father of lies, wants to disrupt every human from loving אלהים God most of all, which includes master manipulation of truth mixed with lies to deceive.
Matthew 22:41-46 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord in LXX & אדני Adonai as Lord in LXX Psalm 109) => Now while the Pharisees were assembled, Jesus asked them, saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “David’s.” He said to them, “How then does David, by the Spirit, call him ‘יהוה Lord,’ saying, ‘The יהוה Lord said to my אדני Lord, “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet” ’? If then David calls him ‘יהוה Lord,’ how is he his son?” And no one was able to answer him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask him any more questions.
Jewish Pharisees had thousands of encounters hearing/saying אדני Adonai for יהוה every year. When יהוה Lord אלהים God breathed life into dust for creation of Adam, יהוה Lord אלהים God planned for The Word voice in אלהים God to take on human flesh as a descendant of King David, which is reflected in Revelation 22:16 LEB => “I, Jesus, sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
John 16:1-15 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => “I have said these things to you so that you will not fall away. They will expel you from the synagogue, but an hour is coming that everyone who kills you will think they are offering service to אלהים God. And they will do these things because they do not know the Father or me. But I have said these things to you so that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you about them. “And I have not said these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. But now I am going away to the one who sent me, and none of you is asking me, ‘Where are you going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your hearts. But I tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go away. For if I do not go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me, and concerning righteousness, because I am going away to the Father and you will see me no more, and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been condemned. I still have many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. But when he—the Spirit of truth—comes, he will guide you into all the truth. For he will not speak from himself, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will proclaim to you the things to come. He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and will proclaim it to you. Everything that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he takes from what is mine and will proclaim it to you.
Thankful for Breath The Holy conviction of sin being specific (along with wonderful Holy presence: Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Humility, Self-Control).
Acts 2:1-4 LEB => And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in the same place. And suddenly a sound like a violent rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. And divided tongues like fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit gave them ability to speak out.
Acts 5:1-11 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => Now a certain man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, and he kept back for himself some of the proceeds, and his wife was aware of it. And he brought a certain part and placed it at the feet of the apostles. But Peter said, “Ananias, for what reason has Satan filled your heart, that you lied to the Holy Spirit and kept back for yourself some of the proceeds of the piece of land? When it remained to you, did it not remain yours? And when it was sold, was it at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to people, but to אלהים God!” And when Ananias heard these words, he fell down and died. And great fear came on all those who heard about it. So the young men stood up, wrapped him up, and carried him out and buried him. And it happened that there was an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. And Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you both were paid this much for the piece of land.” And she said, “Yes, this much.” So Peter said to her, “How is it that it was agreed by you two to test the Spirit of the יהוה Lord? Behold, the feet of those who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out!” And immediately she fell down at his feet and died. So when the young men came in, they found her dead, and carried her out and buried her with her husband. And great fear came on the whole church and on all who heard about these things.
Acts 8:26-40 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord in LXX) => Now an angel of the יהוה Lord spoke to Philip, saying, “Get up and go toward the south on the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is a desert road.) And he got up and went, and behold, there was a man, an Ethiopian eunuch (a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was over all her treasury) who had come to worship in Jerusalem and was returning and sitting in his chariot, and reading aloud the prophet Isaiah. And the Spirit said to Philip, “Approach and join this chariot.” So Philip ran up to it and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet and said, “So then, do you understand what you are reading?” And he said, “So how could I, unless someone will guide me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. Now the passage of scripture that he was reading aloud was this: “He was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and like a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he did not open his mouth. In his humiliation justice was taken from him. Who can describe his descendants? For his life was taken away from the earth.” And the eunuch answered and said to Philip, “I ask you, about whom does the prophet say this—about himself or about someone else?” So Philip opened his mouth and beginning from this scripture, proclaimed the good news to him about Jesus. And as they were traveling down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he ordered the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water—Philip and the eunuch—and he baptized him. And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the יהוה Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him any longer, for he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through, he proclaimed the good news to all the towns until he came to Caesarea.
Acts 10:9-24 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => And the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray at about the sixth hour. And he became hungry and wanted to eat. But while they were preparing the food, a trance came over him. And he saw heaven opened and an object something like a large sheet coming down, being let down to the earth by its four corners, in which were all the four-footed animals and reptiles of the earth and birds of the sky. And a voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, slaughter and eat!” But Peter said, “Certainly not, יהוה Lord! For I have never eaten anything common and unclean!” And the voice came again to him for the second time: “The things which אלהים God has made clean, you must not consider unclean!” And this happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into heaven. Now while Peter was greatly perplexed within himself as to what the vision that he had seen might be, behold, the men who had been sent by Cornelius, having found the house of Simon by asking around, stood at the gate. And they called out and asked if Simon who was also called Peter was staying there as a guest. And while Peter was reflecting about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, men are looking for you. But get up, go down, and go with them—not hesitating at all, because I have sent them.” So Peter went down to the men and said, “Behold, I am he whom you are looking for! What is the reason for which you have come?” And they said, “Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and אלהים God-fearing man—and well spoken of by the whole nation of the Jews—was directed by a holy angel to summon you to his house and to hear words from you.” So he invited them in and entertained them as guests, and on the next day he got up and went away with them. And some of the brothers from Joppa accompanied him. And on the next day he entered into Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his relatives and close friends.
Acts 21:10-14 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord in LXX) => And while we were staying there many days, a certain prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. And he came to us and took Paul’s belt. Tying up his own feet and hands, he said, “This is what the Holy Spirit says: ‘In this way the Jews in Jerusalem will tie up the man whose belt this is, and will deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’ ” And when we heard these things, both we and the local residents urged him not to go up to Jerusalem. Then Paul replied, “What are you doing weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready not only to be tied up, but even to die in Jerusalem for the name of the יהוה Lord Jesus!” And because he would not be persuaded, we remained silent, saying, “The will of the יהוה Lord be done.”
Keep Smiling 😊
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Proverbs Outline
- Wisdom personified speaks (1-36)
- ‘I am the earliest of God’s works’ (22)
- ‘As a master worker at God’s side’ (30)
- ‘I was fond of the sons of men’ (31)
"However, to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God." (1 Corinthians 1:24)
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Why are things being mixed together which do not relate to each other?? Just because you want to make Jesus "eternally existent(begotten)" and essentially God??
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Speaking of Proverbs, in chapter 8, Wisdom shows Christ at Creation. I don't know if this is what @BroRando was trying to do above. Please note, Wisdom is described elsewhere in Scripture, reserved for Yahweh alone:
- Giver of life and death (Prov. 8:35, 36; compare Prov. 14:27).
- Source of legitimate government (Prov. 8:15, 16; compare, for example, Num. 11:16, 17).
- The One who is to be sought after, found, and called (Prov. 8:17; compare Deut. 4:29).
- The One who loves and is to be loved (Prov. 8:17; compare, for example, Neh. 13:26).
- The Giver of wealth (Prov. 8:18–21; compare 1 Chron. 29:12).
- The Source of divine revelation (Prov. 8:6–10, 19, 32, 34; compare Prov. 29:18; 30:3–5).
In Proverbs 8:12, the expression often translated “I, wisdom . . .” is better translated as “I am Wisdom,” in precise grammatical parallel with the common rhetorical form of divine self-reference regularly reserved elsewhere in Scripture for God:
- “I am Yahweh your God” (see, for example, Ezek. 12:25, 35:12, Zech. 10:6, Mal. 3:6).
Wisdom in Proverbs 8 thus speaks and acts as a distinct, self-aware divine Being (the pre-incarnate Son of God). This usage of an attribute (wisdom) to refer to a distinct divine Person is technically known as hypostasis.
Let the Scriptures speak for themselves. "Oh, say, can you see"? CM
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Speaking of Proverbs, in chapter 8, Wisdom shows Christ at Creation.
From which Bible is this idea taken?? How does wisdom show Christ at creation??
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Re-read my post, mainly the texts. CM
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Re-read my post, mainly the texts. CM
I did, and am just as confused by its content .... and thus I asked my simple question above about the meaning of that introductory simple English sentence from your post ... ("Speaking of Proverbs, in chapter 8, Wisdom shows Christ at Creation.") i
It is not clear to me from which Bible that statement about Prov 8 is taken, nor is it clear how wisdom there shows Christ at creation .... is wisdom an actual person showing this to somebody? what does wisdom use to show Christ? Did wisdom show this at creation? something else?
My English language ability perhaps needs a booster?
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Jehovah's Witnesses differentiate sharply between Jehovah God and "Jesus his creature." Do they know that occasion writers in the New Testament apply to Jesus Christ passages from the Old Testament, which refer to Jehovah?
Jehovah's Witnesses used the American Standard Version (1901) before the NWT OT. Is it still valid today? Even then, it proved Jesus is God. The Old Testament of this version makes the case. Thus, I will use it in the quotations taken from this version.
- (a) Isaiah promises that "Jehovah will be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory" (Isa. 60:19 ASV). Luke applies this to Jesus, quoting it in the form. "A light for revelation to the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel" (Isa. 2: 32 [ASV]).
- (b) Isaiah's vision in the temple (Isa. 6.1,3, 10 [ASV]) was of Jehovah. In the Gospel of John, however, it is said that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus Christ and spoke of him (Isa. 12:37-41 [ASV], see especially verse 41).
- (c) In Ps. 23:1 and Isaiah 40:10-11, Jehovah is said to be our shepherd. In John 10:11, Jesus, with obvious reference to the Old Testament passages, claimed to be the good shepherd.
- (d) Paul quotes [he promise in Joel, "Whosoever shall call upon the name of Jehovah shall be delivered" (Joel 2:32 ASV), and refers it to Jesus: "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved . . . for, whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Rom. 10:9,13 ASV).
These are just sample passages of the many that support Christ's Lordship with the representation throughout the Gospels that Jesus both claimed and exercised the prerogatives of the Lord God himself. Thus Jesus:
- Forgives sins (Mark 2:10, etc.)
- Raises the dead (Luke 7:12-15, etc.)
- Controls nature (Matt. 8:26)
- Will judge the secret motives of men (Matt. 7:22-23)
- Willingly receives divine homage (John 20:28-29).
The statement in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one," is a constant claim of Jesus. His statement is either true or false.
- If it is true, then.
- If it is false, he either knew it to be false, or he did not know it to be false.
- If while claiming to be God, he knew this claim to be false, he was a liar.
- If while claiming to be God, he did not know this claim to be false, he was demented. There is no other alternative.
So, @Bill_Coley, @Wolfgang, @BroRando, is Jesus Lord, Liar, or Lunatic? CM
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So, @Bill_Coley, @Wolfgang, @BroRando, is Jesus Lord, Liar, or Lunatic?CM
God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ (cp. Acts 2:36 - “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”)
Trinitarians have made Jesus something else, and thus they would perhaps qualify as liars and lunatics ??
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Yes... Jesus is Firstborn of All Creatures. There is no difference between Creature or Creation even though Creation can also refer to inanimate objects. Creatures are derived from Creation. (Proverbs 8:22)
Strong's Concordance
ktisis: creation (the act or the product)
Original Word: κτίσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ktisis
Phonetic Spelling: (ktis'-is)
Definition: creation (the act or the product)
Usage: (often of the founding of a city), (a) abstr: creation, (b) concr: creation, creature, institution; Always of Divine Work, (c) an institution, ordinance.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2937 ktísis – properly, creation (creature) which is founded from nothing (this is also the sense of this term from Homer on); creation out of nothing (Lat ex nihilo).
Jesus was GIVEN Authority. Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." Matthew 28:18
If Jesus is God, then WHOM gave him this AUTHORITY?? That sorta destroys your trinity theology now doesn't it? God has to be GIVEN authority by another God?
Anyways the Son of God is not God (Numbers 23:19) Jesus forgave SINS to show PROOF that the Son of Man had this Authoity. Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and pick up your stretcher and walk’? But in order for you to know that the Son of Man has Authority to forgive sins on earth—” he said to the paralytic: “I say to you, Get up, pick up your stretcher, and go to your home.” (Mark 2:8-11)
God is not the only one to forgive sins... The Son of Man also and he allowed others the Authority to forgive or retain SINS. Also Jesus is NOT the incarnation of God, rather Jesus was SENT by His Father. Jesus said to them again: “May you have peace. Just as the Father has Sent ME, I also am sending you.” After saying this he blew on them and said to them: “Receive holy spirit. If You Forgive the SINS of anyone, they are forgiven; if you retain those of anyone, they are retained.” (John 20:21-23)
TRUTH
Jesus stated, I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one. John 17:11
Jesus also stated, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. John 17:22
Jesus stated, I and the Father are one. John 10:30
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@BroRando November 4 Yes... Jesus is Firstborn of All Creatures. There is no difference between Creature or Creation even though Creation can also refer to inanimate objects. Creatures are derived from Creation. (Proverbs 8:22)
@BroRando November 4 Strong's Concordance
@BroRando November 4 ktisis: creation (the act or the product)
@BroRando November 4 Original Word: κτίσις, εως, ἡ
Proverbs was written in Hebrew, which a different language than Koine Greek (in Strong's Concordance). Jewish translation of Hebrew Bible into Greek Septuagint (LXX) does NOT have κτίσις in the book of Proverbs. Logos Bible Search for <Lemma = lbs/el/κτίσις> in LXX finds 19 verses as does Logos Bible search for <Lemma = lbs/el/κτίσις> in Greek New Testament:
Firstborn appears twice in the one Koine Greek sentence numbered Colossians 1:9-20 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => Because of this also we, from the day we heard about it, did not cease praying for you, and asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual insight, so that you may live in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good deed and increasing in the knowledge of אלהים God, enabled with all power, according to his glorious might, for all steadfastness and patience with joy, giving thanks to the Father who has qualified you for a share of the inheritance of the saints in light, who has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have the redemption, the forgiveness of sins, who is the image of the invisible אלהים God, the firstborn over all creation, because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him, and he himself is before all things, and in him all things are held together, and he himself is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he himself may become first in everything, because he was well pleased for all the fullness to dwell in him, and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by making peace through the blood of his cross, through him, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
@BroRando November 4 Jesus was GIVEN Authority. Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." Matthew 28:18
@BroRando November 4 If Jesus is God, then WHOM gave him this AUTHORITY?? That sorta destroys your trinity theology now doesn't it? God has to be GIVEN authority by another God?
Philippians 2:5-11 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of אלהים God, did not consider being equal with אלהים God something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross. Therefore also אלהים God exalted him and graciously granted him the name above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and of those on earth and of those under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is יהוה Lord, to the glory of אלהים God the Father.
To do אלהים God's will, what did Lord יהוה Jesus leave in Holy Heaven (emptied Himself) so The Word (Jesus) voice in one plural unique אלהים God could take on human flesh (John 1:1-18) ?
@BroRando November 4 Anyways the Son of God is not God (Numbers 23:19)
Context of Numbers 23:19 is יהוה Yahweh message for King Balak of Moab about Israelites in transition from Egypt to אלהים God's promised land. Second oracle from יהוה Yahweh for King Balak of Moab (many centuries before יהוה Jesus humbly left Heavenly throne to take on human flesh) is in Numbers 23:13-26 LEB => Then Balak said, “Please walk with me to another place where you will see them, but you will only see part of them and will not see all of them; and curse them for me from there.” So he took him to the field of Zophim to the top of Pisgah, and he built seven altars, and he offered a bull and a ram on each altar. Balaam said to Balak, “Station yourself here at the burnt offering while I myself meet with יהוה Yahweh there.” Then יהוה Yahweh met with Balaam, and he put a word in his mouth, and he said, “Return to Balak, and you must speak thus.” He came to him, and behold, he was standing at his burnt offering, and the princes of Moab with him. And Balak said to him, “What has יהוה Yahweh spoken?” Then he uttered his oracle, and said, “Stand up, Balak, and hear; listen to me, son of Zippor! אלהים God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of humankind, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? And has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it? Behold, I have received a command to bless; when he has blessed, I cannot cause it to return. He has no regard for evil in Jacob, and he does not see trouble in Israel; יהוה Yahweh his אלהים God is with him, and a shout of a king is among them. אלהים God, who brings them out from Egypt, is like the strength of a wild ox for them. Because there is no sorcery against Jacob, and there is no divination against Israel. Now it will be said to Jacob and Israel, what אלהים God has done! Look! the people will rise like the lion; he raises himself and will not lie down until he eats the prey and drinks the blood of the slain.” Then Balak said to Balaam, “Do not curse them at all, nor bless them at all!” But Balaam answered and said to Balak, “Did I not speak to you, saying, ‘Whatever יהוה Yahweh speaks I will do’?”
Remember talking donkey encounter with Balaam in Numbers 22:22-35 LEB => But אלהים God became angry because he was going, and the angel of יהוה Yahweh stood in the road as an adversary to him; he was riding on his donkey, and two servants were with him. The donkey saw the angel of יהוה Yahweh standing in the road with his sword drawn in his hand, and the donkey turned aside from the road and went into the field. And Balaam struck the donkey to turn her back to the road. The angel of יהוה Yahweh stood in the narrow path of the vineyards, with a wall on either side. When the donkey saw the angel of יהוה Yahweh, she pressed herself into the wall, and she pressed the foot of Balaam into the wall, so he struck her again. Then the angel of יהוה Yahweh went further ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was not a way to turn aside to the right or left. When the donkey saw the angel of יהוה Yahweh, she lay down under Balaam, so Balaam became angry, and he struck the donkey with his staff. יהוה Yahweh opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What did I do to you that you struck me these three times?” Balaam said to the donkey, “Because you made a mockery of me! If only I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now!” The donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey on which you have ridden all your life until this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?” He said, “No.” Then יהוה Yahweh exposed the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of יהוה Yahweh standing in the road with his sword drawn in his hand, and he bowed down and worshiped to his face. The angel of יהוה Yahweh said to him, “Why have you struck this donkey three times? Look, I have come out as an adversary because your conduct is perverse before me. The donkey saw me and turned aside from me these three times. If she had not turned aside from my face, then I would have killed you and kept her alive.” Balaam said to the angel of יהוה Yahweh, “I have sinned because I did not know that you were standing to meet me in the road. Now, if it is displeasing to you, I will turn back.” The angel of יהוה Yahweh said to Balaam, “Go with the men, but speak only the word that I will speak to you.” So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.
FWIW: Hebrew has one consonant more in מלאך angel spelling than מלך king.
@BroRando November 4 Jesus stated, I and the Father are one. John 10:30
Jewish religious scholars/leaders reaction in John 10:33 LEB => The Jews answered him, “We are not going to stone you concerning a good deed, but concerning blasphemy, and because you, although you are a man, make yourself to be אלהים God!” => shows Jewish religious scholars/leaders understood Jesus as: I and the Father are one יהוה
Keep Smiling 😊
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"None so blind who will not see." The Trinity consists of a reciprocal love relationship that pre-dates creation itself and models the ideal nature of all love relationships (cf. John 17:24). If you would only allow the One (Holy Spirit) you denied to teach you, enlightenment would be your reward. The Spirit is witness to the glorified Jesus (John 6:60–71; 7:32–39; 14–16). Prayer, humility, and reliance upon the Holy Spirit bring knowledge to the puny human mind compared to God's. Understanding the works of "The Holy Spirit in the Epistles" alone can open your eyes:
- The Holy Spirit opposes the flesh and affirms believers (Rom. 8:1–13, 14–23, 26, 27).
- The Holy Spirit provides gifts (1 Cor. 12:4–31; Rom. 12:6–8).
- The Holy Spirit transforms (Gal. 5:16–6:2).
- The Holy Spirit seals and guarantees believers (Eph. 1:3–14).
- The Holy Spirit provides access to God (Eph. 2:11–22).
- The Holy Spirit unifies (Eph. 4:1–16, 25–32).
- The Holy Spirit fills (Eph. 5:18–6:18).
The Holy Spirit brings transformation to our lives. It is the Holy Spirit that can change our inner being and change who we are. Acts 4:31 says,
"And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and spoke the word of God with boldness."
Pray more to understand Scripture. The canon reveals the Trinity of the Father-Son love relationship. The most explicit statements about Father-Son love come in John, which is widely considered to be written later than many (if not all) other books of the NT. Matthew, Mark, and Luke underscore power. John emphasizes revelation.
The Spirit is a transmitter of knowledge, a teacher of truth, or a source of wisdom. Said Jesus,
"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things" (John 14:26).
"Spirit of truth" signals the importance of the Spirit's work in communicating proper knowledge. As Jesus promised, the Spirit would lead the disciples "into all truth" (John 16:13). The task of the Spirit was to help the disciples to "comprehend the depths and heights" of the truth made known by Jesus and yet unperceived by them. The Spirit can flash an idea to the interpreter of Scripture to see a new connection or a new application.
@Wolfgang said:
From which Bible is this idea taken?? How does wisdom show Christ at creation??
Read the Bible in its fullness. Take time to see the composite of the writers' expressions in the Old/New Testaments that reveals the Trinity. Look at the Holy personality, the power, authority, and prerogatives of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Behold the Oneness of God. Stop dismissing Scripture because it doesn't fit your human thinking or reasoning. Let God show you anew what he has revealed through "Holy men." Give God a chance in your reasoning process. CM
SOURCES:
- Keith Warrington, The Message of the Holy Spirit: The Spirit of Encounter (Downers Grove, Ill.: InterVarsity, 2009), 6.
- George R. Beasley-Murray, John, Word Biblical Commentary, vol. 36 (Waco, TX: Word, 1987), 283.
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I and the Father are one... BroRando. With your reasoning... are you now going to claim that BroRando is God? Do you not know that Hebrew Scriptures were also written in Greek?
Languages and Dialects Containing the Divine Name in the Main Text of the Christian Greek Scriptures Language or Dialect: Divine Name
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