Coronavirus: Pandemic, Hype, or "Much-to-do about nothing"?
Comments
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There is a fundamental difference Bill, the unborn are being MURDERED.
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I don't believe that chart for a second.
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@reformed post:
There is a fundamental difference Bill, the unborn are being MURDERED.
I respect that in your opinion the unborn are "MURDERED" in abortions, but as a matter of "public policy" - which is how you framed this issue - abortions are NOT murder (your and my opinions don't determine public policy; laws and courts so). So in fact you DO want to make public policy for the whole country on the basis of the deaths, not the murders, of the unborn.
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I turn to a wider variety of media and compare ...
The vast majority the media and news I can easily see on TV is of course Japanese being that I am in Japan. I can see some snippets of western news on Yutube, but not sure if I can get the entire news board casts. And, as long as news websites from aboard often free access I sometimes check them out. However, I am mystified by those in the west who continue to shout out the refrain, "fake news" yet never list any alternatives for accurate news nor by what criteria they use to make such proclamations . Luckily the media I consume in Japan has never been called fake news by the "media judges" in the west.
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@reformed posted:
I don't believe that chart for a second.
I look forward to the evidence to which you link that underwrites your refusal to believe the chart for a second.
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@Mitchell If, one can't not trust the media and the professional scientists/researchers as you claim who do you suggest they turn to? and why?
@Wolfgang I turn to a wider variety of media and compare ... and I keep in mind which media have propagated what and to whose benefit.I also notice that regimes / governments do not necessarily have the common good of the population in view and ever too often act in other greedy interests (as comes to light when comparing information from different media sources and comparing regime actions and policies) Their deeds reveal truths not found in their words ...
Concur human sin nature (heart) is incredibly deceitful/corrupt (Jeremiah 17:9-10). Concur actions speak louder than words.
Staying two meters (six feet) away from other people seems like physical distancing, yet is being called social distancing. Sneeze study shows droplets going out six meters (300 % farther than two meters) => https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17542834/ and 2014 article => http://news.mit.edu/2014/coughs-and-sneezes-float-farther-you-think (so humanly a bit puzzled about two meter distance guidance) plus "rectracted" article => https://retractionwatch.com/2020/04/22/study-claiming-broader-spread-of-aerosolized-coronavirus-is-retracted/
@Wolfgang As for scientists, the situation is similar ... gather information from a variety of equally qualified professional sources ... and pay more attention to those scientists who are no longer on any government or other lobby institution payroll when evaluating what the experts claim to know and what they suggest with the facts at hand .... and, PLEASE, don't dump your common sense, life experience and reasoning being awe struck by what an expert or president proclaims.
Concur with testing everything so can hold onto what is good: 1 Thessalonians 5 (chapter context has many commands in verses 11 thru 26).
Noticeably missing from seeking insights is asking One True God what is going on ? God's ways are much more than human ways. Coronavirus pandemic has worldwide impact, which could be a pestilence (as predicted/prophesied by Jesus). Is every person ready for Jesus to return ?
Matthew 24:1-8 (1900 AV) And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Coronavirus is impacting food chain supply (e.g. Sonic chain of 3,496 resturaunts in U.S. cancelled queso burger promotion due to beef supply issues along with prices for cattle going down due to plant processing limitations, which hurts cash flow to ranchers while consumers pay more). One kind of famine is becoming too poor to pay for food. Aware of one meat processing plant experiencing nine COVID-19 deaths (including a faithful employee who often worked many hours and got sick at the plant) => https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6918e3.htm
Wind howling outside reminds me of extreme weather and earthquakes occurring more often with intensity in a variety of places globally.
@Wolfgang You know, I have experienced similar situations now for decades in the field of theological and biblical matters ... "scholar", "prof. dr.", "expert of such and such" ... they may gladly claim and publish and propagate whatever they want ... I am not spellbound by their "name fame", but have come to evaluate and examine and dismiss what I deem incorrect or or accept what I arrive at being convincingly correct.
Humans are not God so everything by descendants of Adam needs to be tested, which includes Bible chapter and verse numbering (alignment issues with original language discourse thoughts). Process of translation intersects original language meaning and target language within bounds of believability by translator(s). Study Bibles and commentaries include human experiences and belief expressions (some are helpful while some are stumbling blocks). God's Love has a perfect plan for every human, which is more vast & wondrous than human expression.
Challenge for convincingly correct is personal faith filter: hard to understand/appreciate assertion when already believe differently so belief tosses away assertion (as fantasy) without factual evaluation, consistent with human belief intensity. Every human chooses what to believe (from accumulation of thoughts), which includes what to Love most. An example of human stubbornness reflects Proverbs 22:6 (1900 AV) "Train up a child in the way he should go: And when he is old, he will not depart from it." where a Pastor of 50+ years kept believing perserverance of the Saints doctrine (learned as a youth) even though Pastor's reading of Jewish literature and Early Church Fathers found no doctrinal support.
Keep Smiling 😊
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However, I am mystified by those in the west who continue to shout out the refrain, "fake news" yet never list any alternatives for accurate news nor by what criteria they use to make such proclamations .
Here's an example from recent situation: I watched several live-streams via Internet / YouTube / ec. of a recent "demonstration" against current restriction measures, and the different streams provided a rather good overview of what kind of people were demonstrating (from pictures of larger area, from more detailed pictures, from spontaneous interviews with participants, etc.) as well as documenting that people were almost all keeping the so-called "social distance", etc. and were very friendly, mostly just walking about.
In the evening, a 1 minute report about the demonstration was broadcast on public / state TV in the news ... the pictures shown concentrated on one scene with some protesters rather loudly and vehemently voicing their opinion, and the accompanying comment stated that there had been a gathering of Nazi, right extremist against the governments' very necessary restrictions of the people's right to gather, right to demonstrate, etc.
When there are such opposing "news", one is pretty clearly "fake news". And it was not the live-streams provided by private people with the agenda to provide as much objective view ....
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Wolfgang in the case where two wistness (or media sources) disagree it is also possible that both are equally wrong and/or misleading.
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Wolfgang in the case where two wistness (or media sources) disagree it is also possible that both are equally wrong and/or misleading.
I agree .... what to do? Use our God given capacities of logic and reason to evaluate ... just because someone says something does not make it true, but a careful evaluation with logic and reason might reveal which proposal or idea is true or false, etc.
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@Wolfgang Use our God given capacities of logic and reason to evaluate ... just because someone says something does not make it true,
Thus far I concur with what you have above...
@Wolfgang a careful evaluation with logic and reason might reveal which proposal or idea is true or false, etc.
The above implies that one of the proposals or ideas must be true and that one must somehow inherently be false. However, both of the ideas may prove to be equal wrong, or both ideas may prove to contian only part of the truth, or both ideas may simply be subjective readings/understandings of the issue at hand.
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@Wolfgang posted: (from two posts, not one, and in reverse order of their appearance in this thread)
I agree .... what to do? Use our God given capacities of logic and reason to evaluate ... just because someone says something does not make it true, but a careful evaluation with logic and reason might reveal which proposal or idea is true or false, etc.
When there are such opposing "news", one is pretty clearly "fake news". And it was not the live-streams provided by private people with the agenda to provide as much objective view ....
I ask us to focus on the example you previously cited of a one minute media report that focused on what you called "Nazi" "right wing extremist(s)" at a "'demonstration' against current restriction measures." From the summary of other media you consumed about that event, I don't see a conflict. It is entirely logically possible that large numbers of those gathered for that event were what you described as "friendly... just walking around" WHILE AT THE SAME TIME a group of "Nazi" "right wing extremist(s)" "loudly and vehemently" voiced their opinions. If I'm a reporter for a media outlet covering that event, and my choice is to show people "just walking around" or a group of "Nazi" "right wing extremist(s)" "loudly and vehemently" voicing their opinions, I'm going to choose the Nazis. It's the old saw about "news": On a daily basis, media outlets are NOT going to report that no airplanes crashed at the local airport today. Similarly, people "walking around" an area is not "news" in the same way that "Nazi" "right wing extremist(s)" "loudly and vehemently" voicing their opinions are.
My general view is that if my event attracts "Nazi" "right wing extremist(s)" who "loudly and vehemently" voice their opinions, there's likely something wrong with my event.
And a question about the details you provided about the media report to which you objected: You said the media outlet described the focus of the Nazi right wing extremists as "the government's very necessary restrictions of the people's right to gather, right to demonstrate, etc." Is that the language the media outlet used? Did the outlet actually label the restrictions "very necessary" (or its German equivalent), or was that an description you added, perhaps as an outgrowth of your personal point of view on those restrictions?
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No ... the above was a general comment in reply to your question how to determine ... note, I plainly mentioned "true or false". Perhaps I should have inserted somewhere "might reveal in any case or situation which proposal ..."? A careful evaluation might reveal that all proposals in a situation might be incorrect, it might reveal that some are incorrect, some are partly correct (perhapas give correct facts but draw false conclusions), it might reveal that one is fully correct and various others fully incorrect ...
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My general view is that if my event attracts "Nazi" "right wing extremist(s)" who "loudly and vehemently" voice their opinions, there's likely something wrong with my event.
hmn ... who says that the claim that there were "Nazi" folks there ...the public government propaganda media spoke of "Nazis" at the demonstration and was silent about the 99,5 % or more who had nothing whatever to do with "Nazi" ideas .... and those few screaming women arguing with police were not even propagating "Nazi" slogans, etc. Thus, plain "fake news" propaganda broadcast to brainwash the common folk who feed on the mainstream news reports.
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@Wolfgang posted:
hmn ... who says that the claim that there were "Nazi" folks there ...the public government propaganda media spoke of "Nazis" at the demonstration and was silent about the 99,5 % or more who had nothing whatever to do with "Nazi" ideas .... and those few screaming women arguing with police were not even propagating "Nazi" slogans, etc. Thus, plain "fake news" propaganda broadcast to brainwash the common folk who feed on the mainstream news reports.
In some ways this exchange is about the separation of fact from opinion. So, let's pursue that agenda:
- In your original post about the news report in question, you referred to "some protesters rather loudly and vehemently voicing their opinion." In your most recent post, you describe them as "those few screaming women arguing with police." Which, if either, of those two characterizations - which clearly are NOT identical, and I contend, not even similar - is factually, objectively accurate?
- You SEEM to question the veracity of the "public government propaganda media's" claim that there were "'Nazi' folks" in the crowd. But in the back half of the same sentence you claim - on what basis, you don't tell us - that "99.5% or more" of the crowd among which the "protesters" (or "screaming women") voiced their opinions (or argued with police) "had nothing whatever to do with 'Nazi' ideas." Which, of course, suggests you believe there WERE Nazis or Nazi sympathizers in the crowd, just not very many of them. So if you know it, what is the objective truth about that event: Were Nazis/sympathizers in attendance?
- Your claim about "plain 'fake news' propaganda" whose purpose is to "brainwash the common folk..." is your personal view... to which you're entitled, of course, but for which you provide no evidence.
- And to complete this brief foray into the separation of fact from opinion, I repeat the question I posed to you in my previous post, but to which you did not respond: In that earlier post you said the media outlet reported that the focus of the protesters (or "screaming women") was "the government's very necessary restrictions of the people's right to gather, right to demonstrate, etc." Was that the language the media outlet used? Did the outlet actually label the restrictions as "very necessary" (or its German equivalent), or was that a description you added, perhaps as an outgrowth of your personal point of view on those restrictions?
Your posts in this exchange have raised your concerns about "fake news," which suggests to me that you value objective truth. Please respond directly to each of these questions so that we can separate objective truth in this case from your personal opinions.
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Is a baby a human life? YES. Is the intentional premeditated taking of a human life murder? YES. The courts contradict reality.
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Read the introductory "General" part, and you will gain a better understanding of the situation as far as infections, lethality and other facts are concerned ... and it is quite different from the political WHO propagated political panic-demie. The "polit virus" lockdown, contact tracing, etc are measures not recommended.
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Sources are listet on the picture, among theme CDC, WHO, Lancet ..... Just so nobody thinks the conspiracy theorist Wolfgang made up these figures. Perhaps the whole matter is no conspiracy theory but rather a very real conspiracy? As my grandma said, Look at who profits and you will know the culprits.
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WOW ... a report from Germany's ministry/department of domestic affairs - which was leaked to the public and for which the high ranking official was fired with dubious reasons - has made it to the USA.
Note carefully: (a) the report was done with the assistance of 10 external experts / scientists, and (b) it was not done by people known or defamed as conspiracy theorists.
It documents in rather detailed manner from scientific expertise that government steps taken and upheld even now (lockdown, wearing of masks, social distancing, ruining economy, etc) have been and are unnecessary, disproportionate to the situation, excessive .... and coming from a government source, they are euphemistically described as "false alarm", when in reality by now it is obvious that certain lobbyist bought and paid for powers are at work with full evil and destructive intent.
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WOW WOW WOW :... the German national TV station in their main news broadcast announced that until now 130 million people died of Corona in the USA. Of course, the stupid brainwashed German national propaganda consumer is very shocked ...
It doesn't dawn on the ignorant propaganda victim that 130 million would mean ca. 40% of the USA population have died of Corona .... only few seem to be able to notice this fake news.
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Some updated facts concerning the so-called "Corona Pandemic" from a wel recognized source in Switzerland
a small excerpt concerning Sweden which has been mentioned as bad bad example recently here:
In the case of Sweden, for example, the WHO had to withdraw the classification as a “risk country” after it became clear that the apparent increase in “cases” was due to an increase in testing. In fact, hospitalisations and deaths in Sweden have been declining since April.
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And that is the thing. In my state, our governor is freaking out about the rising number of cases yet the death rate is not rising, it is declining. This is all ridiculous.
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@reformed And that is the thing. In my state, our governor is freaking out about the rising number of cases yet the death rate is not rising, it is declining. This is all ridiculous.
Propaganda talks about "cases" and does not distinguish between "postive test result", "infection", "sick". Politicians seems so brainwashed that they actually believe completely nonsensical information handed them by self-deceived and perhaps corrupt advisors and proclaim panic news just as their lobby handlers designed.
By far most "cases" are due to largely increased testing with an invalidated test, plus false test results. Once that discrepancy would be cleaned up, one would have to note that 80-90% of genuine postive results remain without any symptoms or very mild symptoms (largely due to their immune system functioning properly and defeating and "kill" the virus before the virus can spread.
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Well I know in my county, for example, they keep saying we have 52 cases. What they continually do NOT say is that 44 of those have recovered and so we shouldn't be saying 52, we should be saying 8.
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@reformed Well I know in my county, for example, they keep saying we have 52 cases. What they continually do NOT say is that 44 of those have recovered and so we shouldn't be saying 52, we should be saying 8.
This type of nonsensical counting is obviously done on purpose to keep the public misinformed and to keep the fear and panic fire burning in order to push restrictions on the people. We've had this on nationwide media propaganda ... these "statistics makers" will hopefully be held responsible and brought to justice for fraud and associated damages.
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Exactly
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Just received an email from Walmart Customer Service, that starting from July 20 they will require face masks in all their stores. The step is taken because supposedly CDC and other health officials say that SARS-Cov2 / Corona virus can be spread by people not showing any symptoms ...
Good night, folks ... continue to follow the Panic dudes, and you will certainly lose any freedom (if you haven't already) and be turned into exactly the type of slavery that supposedly is now finally overcome by BLM ideology.
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I suppose more of the very large scale pandemic fraud will now come to light .... does it have to do with "Mr. Fraudci" losing influence in Washington?
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I have no intentions of wearing a mask.
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