Coronavirus: Pandemic, Hype, or "Much-to-do about nothing"?
Comments
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@reformed It is debateable whether or not they are actually dying FROM the virus.... I heard a news report that said people are being counted even if they were not tested and are just suspected to have the virus.
That is what I've been pointing out .... here, people seriously ill who then died have been tested (by the way, with a test that has not been validated and has shown to produce a high percentage of "false positive" results) and tested positive and been counted in the numbers of "Corona dead". Postmortems done in Hamburg now have shown that of about 50 dead not one actually died from the virus. The mortality rate related to the virus is close to the rate with annually experienced flu and influenza.
The infection rates have constantly been decreasing in Germany over the last weeks ... and now the government affiliated Robert-Koch-Institute reports - even with the government used "method of counting" - with 0,7 a number that is below the number (1,0 / 0.9) when the government would lift the lockdown .... ha,ha ... the government announced just two days ago a continuation of lockdown with only a few exceptions ... remember "liar, liar, pants on fire" ? Our chancellor boldly proclaimed that the lockdown must continue until the (Bill Gates / WHO ?) virus vaccine has been developed and administered to the population.
In case, someone doesn't understand ... the population for NO MEDICAL REASON AT ALL is being submitted to lengthy and severe cuts of their rights and liberties ... something that supposedly happens only yin other places with very dangerous dictator regimes.
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So you know and hopefully understand what the WHO is about, have a look at the following poster for a fund raiser (now that Trump cut the USA money support):
What these dudes want is NOT people who are free to go ... they want "one world "imprisoned" AT HOME.
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Exactly, there is no medical reason or logic for these shutdowns. It is insanity. And it is not quarantine. With quarantine you keep sick people locked in. This is imprisonments of the entire world. The virus is not NEARLY as bad as they are trying to make it out to be.
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How do you explain the deaths? CM
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China has revised the Covid-19 death toll in the city of Wuhan, raising the tally by 50% and renewing international criticism of the country's alleged lack of transparency in the early days of the virus. More than 1,200 deaths and 325 cases were added to the grim toll. The way cases were counted there changed three times in January and February, which added to confusion over the extent of the crisis. French President Emmanuel Macron criticized China for these revelations, saying the country didn’t release all the facts. In the US, New York and other hot spots are getting hit with longer peaks of Covid-19 than initially predicted, while some Southern states may not get hit as hard as earlier projected. Researchers from the prominent projection model cited by the White House plan to release new data on the pandemic today. Follow here for the latest updates.
Well? CM
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@reformed Exactly, there is no medical reason or logic for these shutdowns. It is insanity. And it is not quarantine. With quarantine you keep sick people locked in. This is imprisonments of the entire world. The virus is not NEARLY as bad as they are trying to make it out to be.
What I have been saying all along ... and what is showing itself to be the truth. The world's governments have become the victims of some higher powers in the background with worldwide influence (candidates? how about WHO / Gates foundation ? )
And now, the USA President is trying to counter the WHO insanity and get USA back to normal working of society and economy ... and, guess what? He is slammed by those in favor of and in support of destruction of the economy, of increasing even more the number if already 25 million unemployed, etc ....
I wish I could say a happy "Good morning, America {Germany, etc}, how are you?", but nowadays it seems more appropriate to say "Good night, America {Germany, and many other ocuntries} ... 😪
Post edited by [Deleted User] on -
@C Mc How do you explain the deaths? CM
I already did .... and I will add a simple truths of life => older people are more susceptible to death due to their often weaker immune system, thus many older people die during winter season than summer season, because any cold already could cause problems with a previous condition, etc.
In addition, as has been shown by some medical professors that the current rush for artificial respiration by tubes etc. with patients tested positive for corona virus is actually in many cases counter productive and causes damages to the lungs and in quite a number of cases the death of the patient where a more considerate and gentle approach would have been sufficient and the right thing to do.. Unfortunately, the current politically propagated panic and hysteria in the mainstream media causes more deaths than the virus.
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@Wolfgang posted:
So you know and hopefully understand what the WHO is about, have a look at the following poster for a fund raiser (now that Trump cut the USA money support): ...
What these dudes want is NOT people who are free to go ... they want "one world "imprisoned" AT HOME.
Do you know what "Global Citizen" is, Wolfgang? Are you familiar with their annual concerts, usually held in late September, that raise money to fight "extreme poverty" around the globe? Do you know that in 2019, their agenda included such radical interests as asking governments to...
- ...raise $250 million for the Education Cannot Wait fund’s 2019 replenishment, to ensure children can access education even in times of crisis
- ...make commitments to the Global Fund’s $14 billion fundraising drive to save 16 million lives and cut mortality rates from AIDS, tuberculosis, and malaria in half by 2023, and...
- ... allocate $350 million to the UN Population Fund to provide family planning and critical health services to the world’s poorest women
Are you troubled that an international relief organization would dare seek to eradicate extreme poverty? Is that an ambition to which you object?
If by "imprisoned AT HOME" you mean they - and most public health experts - want people in at-risk areas to practice social and personal safety, and one of the tactics to do so is to limit unnecessary travel, okay, but the word choice of your description is wildly sensational.
"One World Together" is an effort to raise money to fight a virus that is affecting 185 nations of our globe (at least according to President Trump, who, I admit, lies about everything, so he may well have lied when he said 185 countries). Sounds like a healthy mission to me.
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What atone for the High number of death among "Black" and "Brown" people in America's large cities? Is it from "politically propagated panic and hysteria"? CM
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@Wolfgang posted:
What I have been saying all along ... and what is showing itself to be the truth. The world's governments have become the victims of some higher powers in the background with worldwide influence (candidates? how about WHO / Gates foundation ? )
So governments have become victims of "some higher powers in the background." Could be one or more "candidates." Could be the WHO. Could be the Gates Foundation. Could be the Children's Television Workshop. Could be the late Helmut Kohl. Could be three mosquitoes in Ecuador who are looking for a ride to the Peruvian border. Come to think of it, it could be you and me, Wolfgang. Wouldn't THAT be ironic? [For the record, I offered as much proof for my mosquito hypothesis as you did for your "higher powers" proposition.]
And now, the USA President is trying to counter the WHO insanity and get USA back to normal working of society and economy ... and, guess what? He is slammed by those in favor of and in support of destruction of the economy, of increasing even more the number if already 25 million unemployed, etc ....
There is no evidence - none - that the public health experts, government leaders, and everyday citizens such as myself who want "slam" Mr Trump's disjointed, uncoordinated, self-absorbed, and pitifully inadequate leadership in our nation's battle against COVID-19 support the "destruction of the economy." Our first priority is the preservation of life and the destruction of the virus. Sadly, that means we must endure a period of economic hardship. Mr Trump himself says that up to 2.4 million Americans or more could have died had we not imposed the restrictions we did. (Again I must admit that because Mr Trump lies about everything, he could well have lied when he used the 2.4 million figure.)
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Our first priority is the preservation of life and the destruction of the virus.
well, IF that was the first priority, then one would normally follow commonly known steps on how to deal with virus related respiratory epidemics ... which occur every year and which are overcome every year by use of natural human immune system and in the rather few more severe cases by medical steps. If that was the first priority, why would one take a totally counterproductive step such as a shutdown and thereby PROLONG the otherwise relatively short cycle of such an epidemic virus infection wave?? why prohibit the healthy and unaffected healthy 97-99% of the population from living their lives normally ?? Why lock down (more accurately "lock up" !) healthy people indoors and in their houses when the most effective means to counter and treat respiratory problems is by being outdoors and getting some sunshine??
There was a mosquito sitting on the window and caused the house occupant trouble. So he took a hammer and killed the fly .... and the damage of an expensive window did not really matter, because he thought the mosquito caused danger was all worth it.
Some would call such procedure stupidity due to ignorance ... and if the ignorance was caused by purposely false propaganda about mosquito danger, it would not make it any better.
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Let's gAuf nach Schweden auf ein Bier
Travelling to Sweden to have a beer and a meal in a restaurant
Hi folks, have a look at how totally absurd the situation with the lockdown / shutdown really is ... an article on a German website (obviously sort of critical of the government's absurd meaasures) ..... You could try and have Google translate the text, if you are really interested
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Samstag, 18. April 2020 um 11:00
Wie völlig absurd die Lage in CH, aber auch in D und Ö wegen dem "Lockdown" ist, zeigt folgende Aktion: Eine Gruppe von Freunden in der Schweiz haben einen Flug nach Schweden gebucht, weil sie es satt haben, nicht mehr ein Bier trinken zu können und ein Essen im Restaurant serviert zu bekommen. Sie vermissen das nach mehreren Wochen eingesperrt und ausgesperrt zu sein.
In Schweden sind die Kneipen, Bars und Restaurants offen und man muss dorthin reisen, um ein Bierchen mit Freunden trinken zu können. Ein Flug kostet ab Zürich 210 Franken für hin und zurück. SKOL!!!
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A group of friends in Switzerland apparently had enough of the absurd situation in Switzerland (as absurd as in Germany or Austria) and no longer wanted to be for bisdden to drink a beer and eat a meal together in a restaurant .... they instead booked flights to Sweden (return tickets at 210 CHF from Zurich) and enjoyed a perfectly normal life including their beer and restaurant meal.
I suppose, the corona virus in Sweden must be far less dangerous than the corona virus in D, CH or A? Or ar eits politicians far less influenced by pharma panic propaganda and hysteria? HOW DARE THEY keep life almost going normal and restaurants, cafes and shops open, etc?
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Oh, no .... the official numbers of the German government associated Robert-Koch-Institute (which has been instrumental in providing figures and suggestions to the cabinet of chancellor A. Merkel ) show that the lockdown starting on March 23 has had NOTHING !!!! to do with a reduction of the infection rate index ... already before the lockdown, the number was below 1 !!!
Source: Robert-Koch-Institut, 15. April 2020; Epidemiologisches Bulletin 17/20
As is obvious, the virus wave had its peak in early March, and yet -- even though the RKI already had the numbers of the time then -- they propagated panic and hysteria by claiming Germany could have up to 300000 (at best) and up to 1,5 million (at worst) corona deaths. Such panic is totally irressponsible ... and because the persons responsible for proclaiming such irrational panic are not stupid, one would have to consider that they acted with full knowledge of their falsehood and on purpose caused th economic crash and erosion of people's rights and liberties.
And yet, Merkel announces boldly that now, after 4 weeks of lockdown, the measures taken by her and the presidents of the different German states have finally brought the figure down to 1, but that this only a small step and we need to keep up the restrictions much longer until a vaccine can be administered. Her talk is poison and full of falsehood and deception ... as even the numbers published in a graph by her advisors at the RKI prove!!! In plain speech: The lockdown was NOT Necessary (since the figure was already below 1 three days before), and it had no effect (because the figure did not go lower).
The whole lockdown has had NO influence on the thiss supposedly so important rate of infection, because that figure was already at the level below 1 BEFORE the lockdown started, and it has of course not really changed since ... No wonder, that the politicians here brewing over their lockdown are becoming nervous and feverishly are trying to find a way to lie their way out of their lies.
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Here is some more of what is going on to establish "a New Normal" as Bill Gates and WHO sees it
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Some more facts on Corona from an Update as of today, April 18, 2020
April 18, 2020
Medical updates
- A new serological study by Stanford University found antibodies in 50 to 85 times more people than previously thought in Santa Clara County, California, resulting in a Covid-19 lethality of 0.12% to 0.2% or even lower (i.e. in the range of severe influenza).
- In a new analysis, the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM) at the University of Oxford argues that the lethality of covid19 (IFR) is between 0.1% and 0.36% (i.e. in the range of a severe influenza). In people over 70 years of age with no serious preconditions, the mortality rate is expected to be less than 1%. For people over 80 years of age, the mortality rate is between 3% and 15%, depending on whether deaths so far were mainly with or from by the disease. In contrast to influenza, child mortality is close to zero. With regard to the high mortality rate in Northern Italy, the research group points out that Italy has the highest antibiotic resistance in Europe. In fact, data from the Italian authorities show that around 80% of the deceased were treated with antibiotics, indicating bacterial superinfections.
- The Finnish epidemiology professor Mikko Paunio from the University of Helsinki has evaluated several international studies in a working paper and comes to a Covid19 lethality (IFR) of 0.1% or less (i.e. in the area of seasonal influenza). According to Paunio, the impression of a higher lethality was created because the virus spread very quickly, especially in multi-generation households in Italy and Spain, but also in cities like New York. The „lockdown“ measures had come too late and had not been effective.
- UK: London’s temporary Nightingale hospital has remained largely empty, with just 19 patients being treated at the facility over the Easter weekend. London’s established hospitals have doubled their ICU capacity, and are so far coping with surge.
- In Canada, 31 people died in an old people’s home after „almost all nursing staff had left the facility in a hurry for fear of the corona virus spreading. Health authorities found the people in the home in Dorval near Montreal only days later – many of the survivors were dehydrated, malnourished and apathetic.“
- A Scottish doctor who also looks after nursing homes writes: „What was the government strategy for nursing homes? The actions taken so far have made the situation much, much worse.“
- In Switzerland, despite Covid19, total mortality in the first quarter of 2020 (until 5th April) was in the medium normal range. One reason for this could be the mild flu season due to the mild winter, which has now been partially „offset“ by Covid19.
- According to a report from April 14, Swiss hospitals and even intensive care units continue to be very under-utilized. This again raises the question of where and how exactly the test-positive deaths (average age 84) in Switzerland actually occur.
- The President of the German Hospital Association has sounded the alarm: more than 50 percent of all planned operations throughout Germany have been cancelled, and the „operations backlog“ is running into thousands. In addition, 30 to 40% fewer patients with heart attacks and strokes are treated because they no longer dare to go to the hospitals for fear of corona. There were 150,000 free hospital beds and 10,000 free intensive care beds nationwide. In Berlin, only 68 intensive care beds are occupied by corona patients, the emergency clinic with 1000 beds is currently not in use.
- New data of German authorities show that in Germany, too, the reproduction rate of Covid19 had already fallen below the critical value of 1 before the lockdown. General hygiene measures were therefore sufficient to prevent the exponential spread. This had already been shown by the ETH Zurich for Switzerland as well.
- On a French aircraft carrier 1081 soldiers tested positive. So far, almost 50% of them remained symptom-free and about 50% showed mild symptoms. 24 soldiers were hospitalized, one of them is in intensive care (previous illnesses unknown).
- Leading German virologist Christian Drosten thinks it is possible that some people have already built up an effective so-called background immunity against the new corona virus through contact with normal common cold corona viruses.
- Klaus Püschsel, a forensic doctor from Hamburg who has already examined numerous test positive deceased, explains in a new article: „The numbers do not justify the fear of corona“. His findings: „Corona is a relatively harmless viral disease. We have to deal with the fact that Corona is a normal infection and we have to learn to live with it without quarantine“. The fatalities he examined would all have had such serious pre-existing conditions that, „even if that sounds harsh, they would all have died in the course of this year. Püschel becomes even clearer: „The time of the virologists is over. We should now ask others what is the right thing to do in the corona crisis, for example the intensive care doctors.“
- A review on Medscape shows that common cold infections caused by coronaviruses typically decline at the end of April – with or without a lockdown.
- Swiss magazine Infosperber writes: „Fewer corona cases? Just test less!“ The daily number of „new cases“ reported says little about the state of the epidemic. It was reckless to trigger fear with the curve of cumulative test-positive deaths, they argue.
- OffGuardian: Eight more experts questioning the coronavirus panic.
- Video: Why lockdowns are the wrong policy – Swedish expert Prof. Johan Giesecke Swedish epidemiology professor Johan Giesecke speaks of a „tsunami of a mild disease“ and considers lockdowns to be counterproductive. The most important thing, he says, is to provide efficient protection for risk groups, especially nursing homes.
Source: https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/#latest
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'Just like everyone else who has died in relation to the virus they all magically and mysteriously just so happen to have pre-existing conditions regardless of their age that would have been fatal even if there wasn't a virus?' In fact, even the normal cold, flu, or allergic reaction would cause the same fatalities or something like that'
Now, as U.S.A is currently leading in the new coronavirus fatalities we can all guess that more Americans have more pre-existing health conditions than any other nationality in the world. And, the answer is: To open up the economy, get ready of silly health restrictions and lockdowns. According to the experts viruses in general apparently can not win against a dosage of a strong economy, a healthy serving of capitalism and two spoons of WallStreet.
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and some more on various virus waves and their seasonal occurrence ... here an example from 2019 (update from July 30, 2019):
As one can easily see, the viruses of the corona type occur between December and April ... in other words, by now the corona related pandemic is basically over ... why? very simple => the temperatures are warmer and people go outside to enjoy fresh air and sunshine thereby also strengthening their natural immune system.
All the lockdown / shutdown measures taken are totally counterproductive in regards to the virus infections aspects. Also, no vaccine needed next fall since it is based on a past virus and the virus next season will of course again be a mutation and thus new.
Question is: Want to employ data and common sense and human experience of generation upon generation, or want to believe politicians and their "court virologists" and applaud them for being locking you up, taking away your liberty and human rights?
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Oh boy, here comes more liberal agenda...good grief.
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What atone for the High number of death among "Black" and "Brown" people in America's large cities?
Away with the foolishness! This is a legitimate question. Do you have a rational-statistical answer? CM
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Rational statistical answer for what? Coronavirus treats everyone equally, why bring race into it? You wonder why I say you are a race baiter well this is part of the problem.
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Reformed
"Coronavirus treats everyone equally". Not true, check the news account. I would accept your apology in advance. CM
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@reformed posted:
Rational statistical answer for what? Coronavirus treats everyone equally, why bring race into it? You wonder why I say you are a race baiter well this is part of the problem.
I don't speak for CMc, but perhaps he's referring to the statistical FACT that COVID-19 has struck people of color disproportionately hard. For example, according to the latest data from the CDC, 30% of COVID-19 patients are African American, while, according to the AP, about a third of COVID-19 fatalities are African American - those data points despite the fact that African Americans comprise just 13% of the US population.
The facts appear to dispute your claim that we shouldn't bring race into the discussion because "Coronavirus treats everyone equally." On what factual basis do you make your claim?
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Because viruses don't discriminate.
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I doubt I will ever apologize to you for anything. You are a race baiter.
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@reformed posted:
Because viruses don't discriminate.
An artful dodge of the question I posed to you, which I'm confident you know was not in any way premised on the possibility that viruses "discriminate." The issue raised by the statistics to which I linked was whether COVID-19 disproportionately affects people of color - specifically African Americans, in the numbers I referenced - and hence adds an element of race into the discussion. That element is NOT discrimination, but demography.
CMc asked what explains the "high number of death among "Black" and "Brown" people in America's large cities," a question I read to refer to demographics not racial discrimination. Your response was to contend that "Coronavirus treats everyone equally." The data make clear that people of color are suffering disproportionately from the virus. Discrimination doesn't explain that, of course. But what does?
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Bill,
You make a clear distinction between "demographics" and "Discrimination" to explain the "high number of death among "Black" and "Brown" people in America's large cities killed by "COVID-19 disproportionately".
As it's his custom, there is one in CD who loves to call name instead of dealing with the facts, statistics, and answering questions posed to him. He seems not to be interested in any rational discussion, the truth of the matter, or to explore anything of substance beyond wading in the pool of limited derogatory-names to call others.
Name-callers, usually, lack knowledge of the subject matter or don't have the discipline to find out what is asked of them. To reflect his deficiencies with substance is tantamount to "casting pearls before swine". It's a known fact that broken cisterns can't hold water. Reality says, "stop trying to get blood out of turnip, there is none to be had". The remnant of CD, hold fast! CM
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@Bill_Coley The issue raised by the statistics to which I linked was whether COVID-19 disproportionately affects people of color - specifically African Americans, in the numbers I referenced - and hence adds an element of race into the discussion. That element is NOT discrimination, but demography.
So then, what do these statistics indicate (if they are even based on correct data rather than some model based estimation)? Do these figures indicate that people of a certain racial background are genetically more susceptible to catch this virus? Do the figures indicate something about social or living standard differences that would be responsible for the different %?
As far as I understand @reformed's comment, he simply stated that a virus does not make such distinctions ....it does not select but this bug can be caught by and infect anyone.
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Given that Covid-19 was cooked up in a lab, the answers to your second and third questions, could be "yes". The Agents of Satan will face God's judgment one day. CM
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More liberal conspiracy theories. Good grief.
If the African American community is being impacted more, which I don't agree with, it is because they typically live in closer communities in more densely populated areas. Therefore, greater chance of passing the virus. They also, due to economics, typically have poorer health conditions.
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@reformed posted:
More liberal conspiracy theories. Good grief.
I know of no evidence that COVID-19 was "cooked up in a lab," to use CMc's words. (I hope that doesn't make me a conservative! 😛) The closest any reporting I've seen comes to that is that the virus arose naturally, was discovered then brought to a lab in Wuhan, China, for study, but then containment/security procedures in the lab failed to the point that the virus was released into the wild. Nothing nefarious about the process.
If the African American community is being impacted more, which I don't agree with, it is because they typically live in closer communities in more densely populated areas. Therefore, greater chance of passing the virus. They also, due to economics, typically have poorer health conditions.
You say you don't agree that African Americans are being impacted more by the virus. What is the factual/statistical basis for your view? I've provided links to two sources to support my view; a two minute Google search would provide dozens of others. Please provide links to the data that support your view. (Recall that in another thread, you refused to respond to information CMc posted on the grounds that it provided "[n]o source, no citation, shouldn't post it. Not worth my time." I'm asking you to provide a source and citation for your wholly un-sourced claim that African Americans are not being impacted more by the virus.)
As to the remainder of this part of your response, I agree with your assessment, but add two observations: 1) Another factor is that African Americans disproportionately work in the "essential businesses" kept open in most states, and as a result have had more opportunities for exposure; 2) What accounts for the "economics" that "typically" produce poorer health conditions in African Americans? Bad luck? Happenstance? Or this nation's sorry history of racial discrimination that created and has yet to close the economic disparity between the majority and African American communities?
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