Is Jesus God?

Brother Rando · November 2021

https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/20235#Comment_20235

You do realize that the Greek Septuagint read "Father of the New Age" and "Angel of Great Counsel" in Isaiah 9:6...?

Then the officers went back to the chief priests and Pharisees, and the latter said to them: “Why did you not bring him in?” The officers replied: “Never has any man spoken like this.” (John 7:45-46)

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no2-2021-may-jun/what-jesus-said-about-the-end/

Brother Rando · November 2021

When Joushua ask the Angel for His Name. How did the Angel of Jehovah respond?

But the angel of Yahweh said to him, “Why do you ask my name? It is too Wonderful.” (Judges 13:18) Sorta goes with the Angel of Great Counsel in the Greek Septuagint now doesn't it.

Truth · November 2021

True, and oh, if only the doubters could understood that Jesus is Jehovah! Then they would know Him so much better, His name, יהוה would mean vastly more to them!

Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus · November 2021

@BroRando November 13 You do realize that the Greek Septuagint read "Father of the New Age" and "Angel of Great Counsel" in Isaiah 9:6...?

Father (Greek Strongs # 3962) does not appear in Isaiah 9:6-7 Greek Septuagint (LXX).

3962. πατήρ patēr, pat-ayr´; appar. a prim. word; a “father” (lit. or fig., near or more remote):—father, parent.

Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 56). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

Isaiah 9:6-7 LXX Swete => ὅτι παιδίον ἐγεννήθη ἡμῖν, υἱὸς ἐδόθη ἡμῖν, οὗ ἡ ἀρχὴ ἐγενήθη ἐπὶ τοῦ ὤμου αὐτοῦ, καὶ καλεῖται τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Μεγάλης βουλῆς ἄγγελος· ἄξω γὰρ εἰρήνην ἐπὶ τοὺς ἄρχοντας καὶ ὑγείαν αὐτῷ. μεγάλη ἡ ἀρχὴ αὐτοῦ, καὶ τῆς εἰρήνης αὐτοῦ οὐκ ἔστιν ὅριον, ἐπὶ τὸν θρόνον Δαυεὶδ καὶ τὴν βασιλείαν αὐτοῦ, κατορθῶσαι αὐτὴν καὶ ἀντιλαβέσθαι ἐν κρίματι καὶ ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ, ἀπὸ τοῦ νῦν καὶ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα· ὁ ζῆλος Κυρίου σαβαὼθ ποιήσει ταῦτα.

Isaiah 9:6-7 LES (Lexham English Septuagint) => Because a child was born to us; a son was given to us whose leadership came upon his shoulder; and his name is called “Messenger of the Great Council,” for I will bring peace upon the rulers and health to him. His leadership is great, and there is no limit to his peace on the throne of David and his kingdom, to establish and take hold of it by justice and by righteousness, now and forever. The eagerness of the Lord Sabaoth will do these things.

@Wolfgang November 13 @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus, which of your three God-voices / persons is actually speaking when we read of God or YHWH stating things in singular (e.g. in the thousands of places in OT scriptures)? For example, in Exo 20.

@Wolfgang November 13 Exo 20:1-2 (NASB)

@Wolfgang November 13 1 Then God spoke all these words, saying,

@Wolfgang November 13 2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

@Wolfgang November 13 3 “You shall have no other gods before Me

@Wolfgang November 13 That sounds rather plainly like a singular individual speaking! Do you mean to tell us it was one "God-trio" disguising themselves as one singular individual ?? Or is there a possibility for an error in your ideas of making "God" a Trio ??

My comment posting 16 minutes later did miss your Exodus 20:1-3 question.

Also noted three questions in my November 13 reply have not been answered by @Wolfgang nor @BroRando

Who is the Son of יהוה Yahweh ? How can we take refuge in the King Son of יהוה Yahweh ?

Psalm 2:1-12 LEB => Why are nations in tumult, and countries plotting in vain? The kings of the earth establish themselves, and the rulers conspire together against יהוה Yahweh and his anointed: “Let us tear off their bonds, and cast their cords from us!” He who sits enthroned in the heavens laughs. The Lord derides them. Then he speaks to them in his wrath, and in his fury he terrifies them: “But as for me, I have set my king on Zion, my holy mountain.” I will tell the decree; יהוה Yahweh said to me: “You are my son; today I have begotten you. Ask from me and I will make the nations your heritage, and your possession the ends of the earth. You will break them with an iron rod. Like a potter’s vessel you will shatter them.” So then, O kings, be wise. Be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve יהוה Yahweh with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son lest he be angry and you perish on the way, for his anger burns quickly. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

How can a child be born who is Mighty אל God & Everlasting Father ?

Isaiah 9:1-7 LEB => But there will be no gloom for those who were in distress. In former times he treated the land of Zebulun and Naphtali with contempt, but in the future he will honor the way of the sea beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations. The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; light has shined on those who lived in a land of darkness. You have made the nation numerous; you have not made the joy great. They rejoice in your presence as with joy at the harvest, as they rejoice when they divide plunder. For you have shattered the yoke of its burden and the stick of its shoulder, the rod of its oppressor, on the day of Midian. For every boot that marches and shakes the earth and garment rolled in blood will be for burning—fire fuel. For a child has been born for us; a son has been given to us. And the dominion will be on his shoulder, and his name is called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty אל God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. His dominion will grow continually, and to peace there will be no end on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and sustain it with justice and righteousness now and forever. The zeal of יהוה Yahweh of hosts will do this.

What name did the Son of יהוה Yahweh receive ?

Jeremiah 23:5-6 LEB => “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’

@Wolfgang November 13 @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus, and where is your answer to the question I asked you in light of your "plural God" ideas? Did you miss the question? It was:

Holy is the unified chorus of three voices in the One יהוה Yahweh אלהים God, which can be absolutely terrifying to anyone who wants to love anything more than יהוה Yahweh אלהים God. Really sad is humans turning away from worshipping One plural unified יהוה Yahweh אלהים God as happened within two months of waiting while יהוה Yahweh אלהים God talked with Moses (humanly disappointed by Aaron's actions).

Exodus 20:1-21 LEB => And אלהים God spoke all these words, saying, “I am יהוה Yahweh, your אלהים God, who brought you out from the land of Egypt, from the house of slaves. “There shall be for you no other אלהים gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a divine image with any form that is in the heavens above or that is in the earth below or that is in the water below the earth. You will not bow down to them, and you will not serve them, because I am יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God, a jealous אל God, punishing the guilt of the parents on the children on the third and on the fourth generations of those hating me, and showing loyal love to thousands of generations of those loving me and of those keeping my commandments. “You shall not misuse the name of יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God, because יהוה Yahweh will not leave unpunished anyone who misuses his name. “Remember the day of the Sabbath, to consecrate it. Six days you will work, and you will do all your work. But the seventh day is a Sabbath for יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God; you will not do any work — you or your son or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your animal, or your alien who is in your gates — because in six days יהוה Yahweh made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and on the seventh day he rested. Therefore יהוה Yahweh blessed the seventh day and consecrated it. “Honor your father and your mother, so that your days can be long on the land that יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God is giving you. “You shall not murder. “You shall not commit adultery. “You shall not steal. “You shall not testify against your neighbor with a false witness. “You shall not covet the house of your neighbor; you will not covet the wife of your neighbor or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that is your neighbor’s.” And all the people were seeing the thunder and the lightning and the sound of the ram’s horn and the mountain smoking, and the people saw, and they trembled, and they stood at a distance. And they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will listen, but let not אלהים God speak with us, lest we die.” And Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. אלהים God has come to test you so that his fear will be before you so that you do not sin.” And the people stood at a distance, and Moses approached the very thick cloud where אלהים God was.

Exodus 32:1-35 LEB => And the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, and the people gathered opposite Aaron, and they said to him, “Come, make for us אלהים gods who will go before us, because this Moses, the man who brought us up from the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.” And Aaron said to them, “Take off the rings of gold that are on the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters, and bring it to me.” And all the people took off the rings of gold that were on their ears and brought it to Aaron. And he took from their hand, and he shaped it with a tool, and he made it a cast-image bull calf, and they said, “These are your אלהים gods, Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt.” And Aaron saw, and he built an altar before it, and Aaron called, and he said, “A feast for יהוה Yahweh tomorrow.” And they started early the next day, and they offered burnt offerings, and they presented fellowship offerings, and the people sat to eat and drink, and they rose up to revel. And יהוה Yahweh spoke to Moses, “Go, go down because your people behave corruptly, whom you brought up from the land of Egypt. They have turned aside quickly from the way that I commanded them; they have made for themselves a cast-image bull calf, and they bowed to it, and they sacrificed to it, and they said, ‘These are your אלהים gods, Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt.’ ” And יהוה Yahweh said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and, indeed, they are a stiff-necked people. And now leave me alone so that my anger may blaze against them, and let me destroy them, and I will make you into a great nation.” And Moses implored יהוה Yahweh his אלהים God, and he said, “Why, יהוה Yahweh, should your anger blaze against your people whom you brought up from the land of Egypt with great power and with a strong hand? Why should the Egyptians say, ‘With evil intent he brought them out to kill them in the mountains and wipe them from the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger and relent concerning the disaster for your people. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, your servants, to whom you swore by yourself, and you told them, ‘I will multiply your offspring like the stars of the heavens, and all this land that I promised I will give to your offspring, and they will inherit it forever.’ ” And יהוה Yahweh relented concerning the disaster that he had threatened to do to his people. And Moses turned and went down from the mountain, and the two tablets of the testimony were in his hand, tablets written on their two sides; on the front and on the back they were written. And the tablets, they were the work of אלהים God; and the writing, it was the writing of אלהים God engraved on the tablets. And Joshua heard the sound of the people in their shouting, and he said to Moses, “A sound of war is in the camp.” But he said, “There is not a sound of shouting of victory, and there is not a sound of shouting of defeat. I hear a sound of singing.” And as he came near to the camp, he saw the bull calf and dancing, and Moses became angry, and he threw the tablets from his hand, and he broke them under the mountain. And he took the bull calf that they had made, and he burned it with the fire, and he crushed it until it became fine, and he scattered it on the surface of the water, and he made the Israelites drink. And Moses said to Aaron, “What did this people do to you that you brought on them such a great sin?” And Aaron said, “Let not my אדני lord become angry. You yourself know the people, that they are intent on evil. And they said to me, ‘Make for us אלהים gods who will go before us, because this Moses, the man who brought us up from the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.’ And I said to them, ‘Whoever has gold, take it off.’ And they gave it to me, and I threw it in the fire, and out came this bull calf.” And Moses saw the people, that they were running wild because Aaron had allowed them to run wild, for a laughingstock among their enemies. And Moses stood at the entrance of the camp, and he said, “Whoever is for יהוה Yahweh, to me.” And all the sons of Levi were gathered to him. And he said to them, “Thus says יהוה Yahweh, the אלהים God of Israel, ‘Put each his sword on his side. Go back and forth from gate to gate in the camp, and kill, each his brother and each his friend and each his close relative.’ ” And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses, and from the people on that day about three thousand persons fell. And Moses said, “You are ordained today for יהוה Yahweh, because each has been against his son and against his brother and so bringing on you today a blessing.” And the next day Moses said to the people, “You have sinned a great sin. And now I will go up to יהוה Yahweh. Perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.” And Moses returned to יהוה Yahweh, and he said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin and made for themselves אלהים gods of gold. And now if you will forgive their sin — and if not, please blot me from your scroll that you have written.” And יהוה Yahweh said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot him from my scroll. And now go, lead the people to where I spoke to you. Look, my angel will go before you, and on the day when I punish I will punish them for their sin.” And יהוה Yahweh afflicted the people because they had made the bull calf that Aaron had made.

Notice plural אלהים is translated gods and God in Exodus 20 & 32. Of all the men who heard יהוה Yahweh אלהים God, only two entered the land promised by יהוה Yahweh אלהים God of Israel: Joshua (name means "יהוה Yahweh Salvation", same as Jesus) and Caleb (name means "dog").

Aaron spoke אדני to address Moses, who was to Aaron as אלהים

Exodus 4:10-17 LEB => And Moses said to יהוה Yahweh, “Please, אדני Lord, I am not a man of words, neither recently nor in the past nor since your speaking to your servant, because I am heavy of mouth and of tongue.” And יהוה Yahweh said to him, “Who gave a mouth to humankind, or who makes mute or deaf or sighted or blind? Is it not I, יהוה Yahweh? So then go, and I myself will be with your mouth, and I will teach you what you must speak.” And he said, “Please, אדני Lord, do send anyone else whom you wish to send.” And יהוה Yahweh was angry with Moses and said, “Is there not Aaron your brother the Levite? I know that he certainly can speak, and also there he is coming out to meet you, and when he sees you, he will rejoice in his heart. And you will speak to him, and you will put words in his mouth, and I myself will be with your mouth and with his mouth, and I will teach you what you must do. And he will speak for you to the people, and then he will be to you as a mouth, and you will be to him as אלהים a god. And you must take this staff in your hand, with which you will do the signs.”

Exodus 4:16 LEB translation has "a god" for plural אלהים (suspect "a god" reflects translators knowing the man Moses has one human voice).

Keep Smiling 😊

[Deleted User] · November 2021

https://sites.google.com/site/christourtruth/if-jesus-was-god/isaiah-9-6-jesus-the-mighty-god

Have a look at this little study of Isa 9:6 ,,,, rather simple, logical, and not very mysterious

[Deleted User] · November 2021

Add this one for some more simple and plain insight ...

http://www.bibleanswerstand.org/mighty.htm

Truth · November 2021

Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus I love your studies. I hope you write the book someday.

C Mc · November 2021

@Wolfgang said:

@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus, which of your three God-voices / persons is actually speaking when we read of God or YHWH stating things in singular (e.g. in the thousands of places in OT scriptures)? For example, in Exo 20.

"I am YHWH thy God who brought thee out from the land of Egypt." It's not which one, but it's who spoke, God! Why can't you accept for who He is, as He is, and how He chose to reveal Himself?

@Wolfgang , you are a man, a created being. How can one know God except he reveals Himself? You're too wise for your good. Stop blaspheming God and His revelations and manifestations in ways a man can comprehend Him without being destroyed by his holiness.

You and @Bill_Coley, need to let go of "the historical-critical principles of interpretation". Using this method to determine the factual trustworthiness of biblical accounts is like trying to nail hot-water on the wall without a container. Let go and let God have his way in your lives. Believe and accept the revealed Word (Bible). CM

[Deleted User] · November 2021

"I am YHWH thy God who brought thee out from the land of Egypt." It's not which one, but it's who spoke, God! Why can't you accept for who He is, as He is, and how He chose to reveal Himself?

YHWH is singular ... thus the question: Which of the plural individual voices in the supposed plural voices God is this YHWH? Is the Father voice/person? the Son voice/person? the Holy Ghost voice/person??

Please note: I am not the one teaching a plural voices/person God ... I do not have a problem which @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus is producing with his plural God ideas inventions ...

@Wolfgang , you are a man, a created being.

I've never claimed differently, nor have I claimed divine reason or divine (=> nore than human) understanding as some others here seem to claim when speaking their trinitarian doctrines.

How can one know God except he reveals Himself?

Well, for that reason I go by what God has revealed in Scripture for humans to understand ... rather than speculating "more than mere human understanding" as you trinity folks do.

You're too wise for your good. Stop blaspheming God and His revelations and manifestations in ways a man can comprehend Him without being destroyed by his holiness.

Take a good look in the mirror ... I would think you can recognize yourself ....

Brother Rando · November 2021

https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/20360#Comment_20360

I wonder why @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus never claims Jesus is the three voices. Since he always claims Jesus is God?? According to the trinity doctrine, one distinct person or voice does not make up God...

Who was that speaking when the Servant was baptiized? Is God a Servant? Who does God Serve?

Are the servants of Pharaoh, Pharaoh or ones who represent Pharaoh?

Isaiah 42:1

Look! My servant, whom I support! My chosen one, whom I have approved! I have put my spirit in him; He will bring justice to the nations.

The denial of the Messiah continues... 😔

Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus · November 2021

@BroRando November 16 I wonder why @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus never claims Jesus is the three voices. Since he always claims Jesus is God??

Scripture words of יהוה Lord Jesus simply show one voice, The Word, whose spiritual quality is fully אלהים God. Completeness of One unique plural אלהים God is three voices: יהוה Father, יהוה Jesus, Breath The Holy (in ONE unified Holy commUnity of ❤️Love).

Original Jewish audience hearing יהוה Jesus speak recognized difference from Jewish religious leaders (studies included Torah memorization)

Matthew 7:28-29 LEB => And it happened when Jesus finished these words the crowds were amazed at his teaching, because he was teaching them like one who had authority, and not like their scribes.

Mark 1:22-28 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => And they were amazed at his teaching, because he was teaching them like one who had authority, and not like the scribes. And so then there was a man in their synagogue with an unclean spirit, and he cried out, saying, “Leave us alone, Jesus the Nazarene! Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are — the Holy One of אלהים God!” And Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be silent, and come out of him!” And after convulsing him and crying out with a loud voice, the unclean spirit came out of him. And they were all amazed, so that they began to discuss with one another, saying, “What is this? A new teaching with authority! He even commands the unclean spirits and they obey him.” And the report about him then went out everywhere in the whole surrounding region of Galilee.

How can a created being forgive sins against the creator, King of the Universe ?

If Jesus is יהוה Lord, then יהוה Jesus can rightfully forgive sins against One unique plural אלהים God, King of the Universe.

Logos Bible Search for "Holy One of Israel" in LEB finds 31 verses, which includes:

2 Kings 19:20-28 LEB => Then Isaiah the son of Amoz sent to Hezekiah, saying, “Thus says יהוה Yahweh the אלהים God of Israel, ‘What you have prayed to me about Sennacherib king of Assyria I have heard. This is the word that יהוה Yahweh has spoken concerning him: She despises you, she scorns you, the virgin daughter of Zion. Behind you the daughter of Jerusalem shakes her head. Whom have you mocked and reviled? And against whom have you have raised your voice and have haughtily lifted your eyes? Against the Holy One of Israel! By the hand of your messengers you have mocked the יהוה Lord, and you have said, ‘With my many chariots I have gone up to the height of the mountains. To the remote areas of Lebanon, I have felled the tallest of its cedars, the choicest of its cypresses. I have entered the place of overnight lodging. Even to the edge of forest of its fertile land. I dug wells and I drank foreign water, and I dried up with the sole of my steps all the canals of Egypt.’ Have you not heard? From long ago I have determined it, from the days of old I have planned it, and now I am bringing it to pass. It shall be turned into a pile of rocks; fortified cities are ruined. Their inhabitants, short of hand, shall be dismayed; and they shall be ashamed. They have become green plants of the open field, and tender grass, green grass of the roof and blight before the standing grain. Your sitting, your going out, and your coming in I know, and your raging against me. Because you are raging against me, and your arrogance has come up in my ears, I will put my nose ring in your nose and my bridle in your mouth. And I will turn you back on the way that you have come.

FWIW: a stele about Sennacherib describes shutting up Hezekiah within Jerusalem "like a caged bird" => Sennacherib's Hexagonal Prism

Isaiah 5:9-25 LEB => יהוה Yahweh of hosts said in my ears: Surely many houses shall become a desolation, large and beautiful ones without inhabitant. For ten acres of vineyard shall yield one bath, and the seed of a homer will yield an ephah. Ah! Those who rise early in the morning, they pursue strong drink. Those who linger in the evening, wine inflames them. And there will be lyre and harp, tambourine and flute, and wine at their feasts, but they do not look at the deeds of יהוה Yahweh, and they do not see the work of his hands. Therefore my people will go into exile without knowledge, and their nobles will be men of hunger, and their multitude is parched with thirst. Therefore Sheol has enlarged its throat, and it has opened wide its mouth without limit, and her nobles will go down, and her multitude, her tumult and those who revel in her. And humankind is bowed down, and man is brought low, and the eyes of the haughty are humiliated. But יהוה Yahweh of hosts is exalted by justice, and the holy אל God shows himself holy by righteousness. And then the lambs will graze as in their pasture, and fatlings, kids will eat among the sites of ruins. Ah! Those who drag iniquity along with the cords of falsehood and sin as with rope of the cart, those who say, “Let him make haste; let him hurry his work so that we may see it and let it draw near and let the plan of the holy one of Israel come so that we may know it!” Ah! Those who call evil good and good evil, those who put darkness for light and light for darkness, those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Ah! Those who are wise in their own eyes and have understanding in their view! Ah! Heroes at drinking wine, and men of capability at mixing strong drink! Those who acquit the guilty because of a bribe and remove the justice of the innocent from him. Therefore as the tongue of fire devours the stubble, and dry grass sinks down in the flame, so their root will become like the stench, and their blossom will go up like the dust. For they have rejected the instruction of יהוה Yahweh of hosts, and they have treated the word of the holy one of Israel with contempt. Therefore יהוה Yahweh’s wrath was kindled against his people, and he stretched out his hand against them and struck them, and the mountains quaked, and their corpses were like refuse in the middle of the streets. In all of this his anger has not turned back, and still his hand is stretched out.

Phrase "the holy אל God shows himself holy by righteousness" is consistent with Jeremiah 23:5-6 LEB => “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’

Hebrew word righteousness has 1st person pronoun suffix so translation could be: "יהוה Yahweh Righteousness We"

Reading Isaiah 5:9-25 reminds me to intensely 🙏 Pray for Holy God's mercy & justice for multitude of people in many, many places as wrong is being called right with lots of injustice. What the world needs now is God's Love ❤️that's the only thing there is just too little of ...

Logos Bible Search for "Jesus is God" OR "Jesus is NOT God" OR "God has one voice" finds in my Logos library:

Hebrews 5:8 CEV => Jesus is God’s own Son, but still he had to suffer before he could learn what it really means to obey God.

Acts 9:20 Christian Counselor's New Testament => Now right away he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is God’s Son.

1 John 4:13 Cotton Patch Gospel => The fact that he gave us his spirit assures us that we are in unity with him and he with us. And we ourselves have both experienced and are the evidence that the Father has sent his son to be mankind’s deliverer. Whenever one takes his stand on the fact that Jesus is God’s son, God is present in him and he in God. So we have both experienced, and based our lives on, the love that God has put in us.

1 John 4:15 The Bible for Everyone: A New Translation => Anyone who confesses that Jesus is God’s son, God abides in them and they abide in God.

1 John 4:15 Christian Counselor's New Testament => Whoever confesses that Jesus is God’s Son is one in whom God remains, and he in God.

1 John 4:15 CEB => If any of us confess that Jesus is God’s Son, God remains in us and we remain in God. We have known and have believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and those who remain in love remain in God and God remains in them.

1 John 4:15 The Message => Everyone who confesses that Jesus is God’s Son participates continuously in an intimate relationship with God. We know it so well, we’ve embraced it heart and soul, this love that comes from God.

1 John 4:15 REB => If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is God’s Son, God dwells in him and he in God.

1 John 5:5 The Bible for Everyone: A New Translation => Who is the one who conquers the world? Surely the one who believes that Jesus is God’s son!

1 John 5:5 Christian Counselor's New Testament => Who can defeat the world except those who believe that Jesus is God’s Son?

1 John 5:5 CEB => Who defeats the world? Isn’t it the one who believes that Jesus is God’s Son?

Did not find phrases "Jesus is NOT God" nor "God has one voice" in 1,023 Bible resources (am aware of several Bibles not available for Logos use).

@BroRando November 16 According to the trinity doctrine, one distinct person or voice does not make up God...

Curious about your human source(s) for trinity doctrine ?

Is trinity doctrine implicit OR explicit ?

Logos Basic Search in 4,081 resources having Theology subject for (implicit OR explicit) WITHIN 7 WORDS (trinitarian OR trinity) finds 507 articles in 328 resources. Depends on human author for trinity doctrine being described as implicit OR explicit.

My self identification is a follower of The Way. John 14:6 LEB => Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Humanly not know if my understanding of One unique plural אלהים God aligns well with human trinity doctrine expression.

@Wolfgang November 16 Have a look at this little study of Isa 9:6 ,,,, rather simple, logical, and not very mysterious

Whoever wrote study is welcome to participate in Christian Discourse discussion. Observation is Hebrew lemma for Mighty <Lemma = lbs/he/גִּבּוֹר> does not appear in Psalm 82. Mighty describes plural אלהים God, but is not a word substitute.

@Wolfgang November 16 Add this one for some more simple and plain insight ...

Author, Craig Bluemel, is welcome to participate in Christian Discourse discussion. Noted author shares similar faith belief assumption like @Wolfgang & @Bill_Coley that the man Jesus CANNOT be GOD (different than @BroRando & @theMadJW believing lie from Watchtower society that Jesus is the archangel Michael).

Keep Smiling 😊

[Deleted User] · November 2021

Did not find phrases "Jesus is NOT God" nor "God has one voice" in 1,023 Bible resources (am aware of several Bibles not available for Logos use).

Hmn ... YOU did not find these phrases? Did YOU find the phrases "Jesus IS God" or "God has three voices"? What did YOUR Logos software Bibles have ? What did your extra Biblical resources have?

Perhaps it becomes clear from your search for those phrases that the BIBLE does not contain such ideas and that they are non-biblical human theology fantasy?

Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus · November 2021

@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus November 17 Noticed translation interpretation included "of" in phrase 'Firstborn of ALL Creation' for genitive grammatical case ("of" & "from" are two primary English words for expressing range of meaning)

@BroRando November 17 The Greek word pas means all, every. The useage of pas can also be extended to all, the whole, every kind of. Never [over].

Many English translations express genitive case πάσης κτίσεως all/every creation using "of" while a couple translations have "to"

"15 Christ is the visible likeness of the invisible God. He is the first-born Son, superior to all created things."

American Bible Society. (1992). The Good News Translation with Apocrypha (p. Col 1:15). American Bible Society.

"15 Christ is exactly like God, who cannot be seen. He is the first-born Son, superior to all creation.

The Holy Bible: The Contemporary English Version (p. Col 1:15). (1995). Thomas Nelson.

Several other translations have over in Colossians 1:15 segment in the sentence numbered Colossians 1:9-20 (includes top selling 1984 NIV)

"9–16 Because of this, we also, from the day we heard, do not cease on behalf of you offering our petitions and presenting our definite requests, that you might be filled with the advanced and perfect experiential knowledge of His will in the sphere of every kind of wisdom and intelligence which is spiritual, so that you may order your behavior worthily of the Lord with a view to pleasing Him in everything, in every work which is good constantly bearing fruit and increasing by means of the advanced and perfect experiential knowledge of God, by every enabling power being constantly strengthened in proportion to the manifested power of His glory, resulting in every patience and forbearance, with joy constantly giving thanks to the Father who qualified you for the portion of the share of the inheritance of the saints in the sphere of the light; who delivered us out of the tyrannical rule of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we are having our liberation, procured by the payment of ransom, the putting away of our sins; who is a derived reproduction and manifestation of absolute deity, the invisible deity, who [the Son] has priority to and sovereignty over all creation, because in Him were created all things in the heavens and upon the earth, the visible things and the invisible ones, whether they are thrones or lordships or principalities or authorities. All things through Him as intermediate agent and with a view to Him stand created."

Kenneth S. Wuest, The New Testament: An Expanded Translation (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1961), Col 1:9–16.

"15 He is the image of the invisible God; his is the primacy over all created things."

McH, W. D. (1970). Introduction. In The New English Bible (p. Col 1:15). Oxford University Press; Cambridge University Press.

"15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."

The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Col 1:15.

"15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."

The Holy Bible: New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1984), Col 1:15.

"15 He is the image of the invisible God; his is the primacy over all creation."

The Revised English Bible (Cambridge; New York; Melbourne; Madrid; Cape Town; Singapore; São Paulo; Delhi; Dubai; Tokyo: Cambridge University Press, 1996), Col 1:15.

"15 He is the visible image of the invisible God. He is supreme over all creation,"

David H. Stern, Complete Jewish Bible: An English Version of the Tanakh (Old Testament) and B’rit Hadashah (New Testament), 1st ed. (Clarksville, MD: Jewish New Testament Publications, 1998), Col 1:15.

"15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn * over all creation, **

Biblical Studies Press, The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible (Biblical Studies Press, 2005), Col 1:15.

* tn (translator's note) The Greek term πρωτότοκος (prōtotokos) could refer either to first in order of time, such as a first born child, or it could refer to one who is preeminent in rank. M. J. Harris, Colossians and Philemon (EGGNT), 43, expresses the meaning of the word well: “The ‘firstborn’ was either the eldest child in a family or a person of preeminent rank. The use of this term to describe the Davidic king in Ps 88:28 LXX (=Ps 89:27 EVV), ‘I will also appoint him my firstborn (πρωτότοκον), the most exalted of the kings of the earth,’ indicates that it can denote supremacy in rank as well as priority in time. But whether the πρωτό- element in the word denotes time, rank, or both, the significance of the -τοκος element as indicating birth or origin (from τίκτω, give birth to) has been virtually lost except in ref. to lit. birth.” In Col 1:15 the emphasis is on the priority of Jesus’ rank as over and above creation (cf. 1:16 and the “for” clause referring to Jesus as Creator).

** tn (translator's note) The genitive construction πάσης κτίσεως (pasēs ktiseōs) is a genitive of subordination and is therefore translated as “over all creation.” See ExSyn 103–4.

Biblical Studies Press, The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible (Biblical Studies Press, 2005).

"15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the one who is first over all creation,"

Common English Bible (Nashville, TN: Common English Bible, 2011), Col 1:15.

"15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation"

International Standard Version (Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation, 2011), Col 1:15.

"15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation,"

Tyndale House Publishers, Holy Bible: New Living Translation (Carol Stream, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, 2015), Col 1:15.

"15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation,"

Holy Bible: Evangelical Heritage Version (Milwaukee, WI: Northwestern Publishing House, 2019), Col 1:15.

What is the genitive of subordination [over] ? (ExSyn 103-4 in the NET Bible translator's note)

13. Genitive of Subordination [over]

a. Definition

The genitive substantive specifies that which is subordinated to or under the dominion of the head noun.

b. Key to Identification

Instead of of supply the gloss over or something like it that suggests dominion or priority.

c. Amplification/Semantics

This kind of genitive is a lexico-semantic category. That is, it is related only to certain kinds of head substantives-nouns (or participles) that lexically imply some kind of rule or authority. Words such as βασιλεύς and ἄρχων routinely belong here. For the most part, this genitive is a subset of the objective genitive, but not always.84

d. Illustrations

1) Clear Examples

Matt 9:34 τῷ ἄρχοντι τῶν δαιμονίων

the ruler over the demons

Mark 15:32 ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ

he king over Israel

2 Cor 4:4 ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου

the god of this world

Cf. also John 12:31; Acts 4:26; Rev 1:5; 15:3.

2) Disputed Examples

1 Tim 1:17 τῷ δὲ βασιλεῖ τῶν αἰώνων

now to the king of the ages (=the one who rules over the ages)

The problem with taking this as attributive (as ASV et al. do) is that the gen. is plural. However, if it were put in the singular, the meaning would not be “eternal king” (“king of the age” would be a temporal king). RSV, NRSV treat it as a gen. of subordination—“king of the ages.”

Eph 2:2 ποτε περιεπατήσατε … κατὰ τὸν ἄρχοντα τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος, τοῦ πνεύματος τοῦ νῦν ἐνεργοῦντος ἐν τοῖς υἱοῖς τῆς ἀπειθείας

you formerly walked according to the ruler of the domain of the air, [the ruler] of the spirit which now works in the sons of disobedience

The semantic force of subordination here would be “the one who rules over the domain of the air, over the spirit …” Although some take πνεύματος as a gen. of apposition to ἄρχοντα, this is semantically impossible because such cannot occur when both nouns are personal. (See discussion under gen. of apposition, mentioned above.) The idea of this text, then, is that the devil controls non-believers both externally (the environment or domain of the air) and internally (attitudes or spirit).

Col 1:15 ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ἀοράτου, πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως

who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation

Though some regard this gen. to be partitive (thus, firstborn who is a part of creation), both due to the lexical field of “firstborn” including “preeminent over”87 (and not just a literal chronological birth order) and the following causal clause (“for [ὅτι] in him all things were created”)—which makes little sense if mere chronological order is in view, it is far more likely that this expresses subordination. Further, although most examples of subordination involve a verbal head noun, not all do (notice 2 Cor 4:4 above, as well as Acts 13:17). The resultant meaning seems to be an early confession of Christ’s lordship and hence, implicitly, his deity.

Daniel B. Wallace, Greek Grammar beyond the Basics: An Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1996), 103–104.

Strong's Concordance has Greek language limitation of only including words used in Scripture along with simplified word definition. Larger range of word meaning is in A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. BDAG has five numbered definitions for πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν that includes:

πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν gen. παντός, πάσης, παντός (dat. pl. πᾶσι and πᾶσιν vary considerably in the mss.; s. W-S. §5, 28; cp. Rob. 219–21; on the use of the art. s. B-D-F §275) (Hom. +).

① pert. to totality with focus on its individual components, each, every, any

ⓐ adj., used w. a noun without the art.

α. in the sing. emphasizing the individual members of the class denoted by the noun every, each, any, scarcely different in mng. fr. the pl. ‘all’:

• πᾶν δένδρον Mt 3:10; Lk 3:9.

• πᾶσα φυτεία Mt 15:13.

• πᾶσα φάραγξ, πᾶν ὄρος Lk 3:5 (Is 40:4).

• πᾶς τόπος 4:37.

• πᾶς ἄνθρωπος J 1:9; 2:10; Ro 3:4 (Ps 115:2); Gal 5:3; Col 1:28abd; Js 1:19.

• πᾶσα γυνή GJs 11:2.

• πᾶν ἔθνος Ac 17:26a.

• πᾶσα ψυχή (Pla., Phdr. 249e) 2:43; 3:23 (cp. Lev 23:29); Ro 2:9; Jd 15.

• πᾶσα ἡμέρα Ac 5:42; 17:17.

• πᾶν σάββατον 18:4.

• πᾶσα ἀρχὴ καὶ πᾶσα ἐξουσία 1 Cor 15:24 (cp. Just., D. 111, 2 οὗ τὸ ὄνομα πᾶσα ἀρχὴ δέδιεν).

• πᾶσα συνείδησις 2 Cor 4:2.

• πᾶς ἅγιος Phil 4:21.

• πᾶς οἶκος Hb 3:4 (GJs 7:3).

• πᾶσα ἀντιλογία 7:7.

• πᾶσα παιδεία all discipline 12:11.

• πᾶς ὀφθαλμός Rv 1:7a.

• πᾶν κτίσμα 5:13a.

• —Mt 23:35; Lk 2:23 (Ex 13:2); 4:13; 21:36; 2 Th 2:4 (Da 11:36).

• πᾶσα κτίσις every creature Col 1:15;

. . .

William Arndt, Frederick W. Danker, et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 782.

Another lexicon for Greek New Testament is Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains by Louw & Nida, which has numbering assigned to every word to show semantic meaning in a particular context.

Preface

This Greek New Testament lexicon based on semantic domains has been designed primarily for translators of the New Testament in various languages, but biblical scholars, pastors, and theological students will no doubt also find this lexicon of particular value, since it focuses on the related meanings of different words. This focus is clearly a major concern of all theological studies. In addition, a number of linguists and lexicographers are likely to be interested in view of the distinctive approach and methodology employed in this lexicon.

The approach to the problems of the meaning of lexical items (words and idioms) in this dictionary is the outgrowth of field experience, which has included helping Bible translators in some 200 different languages in the world, but both the orientation and the methodology reflect a body of important relevant research, including the work of Lounsbury (1964), Conklin (1962), Goodenough (1956), Nida (1975), and Lehrer (1974).

Initial work on this lexicon began in the summer of 1972, and the editorial team consisted of Johannes P. Louw of the University of Pretoria in South Africa, Eugene A. Nida of the American Bible Society and the United Bible Societies, and Rondal B. Smith, then of Lincoln Christian College and at present with the Pioneer Bible Translators. In view of other commitments, however, Professor Smith was not able to continue until the end of the editorial processes. Karen A. Munson, who made important contributions to the editorial procedures of the Greek New Testament published by the United Bible Societies, has served throughout the project as an associate editor.

The procedures employed in the development of this Greek New Testament lexicon have been of four principal types: (1) the classification of meanings of the New Testament vocabulary into domains and subdomains, based on a dictionary published by the United Bible Societies and edited by Barclay M. Newman; (2) a verification of these meanings, as well as the addition of other meanings of lexical items based on a careful study of Greek New Testament concordances and dictionaries; (3) the preparation of definitions and notes (both those for translators, included in the text, and for linguists and lexicographers, in footnotes); and (4) final editing, cross referencing, and indexing, as well as proofreading. Responsibility for the first procedure rested with the editorial committee of Louw, Nida, and Smith, while the second procedure was carried out by Louw and Smith, with major responsibility resting with Louw. The third procedure was carried out by Nida in close consultation with Louw, and the fourth procedure was the responsibility of Louw and his staff (in particular Stienie Venter, Willem Oliver, and Tienie Bosman assisted by Wessel Venter) at the University of Pretoria, with additional assistance from Karen Munson, who has been responsible for the preparation of the manuscript at various stages.

In a publication as extensive and complex as this Greek New Testament lexicon, it is inevitable that certain matters will be overlooked and some mistakes will be made. Accordingly, plans have been made for the publication in subsequent editions of both errata and addenda. Since the dictionary is computerized, corrections can be readily introduced. The editors will be particularly thankful for help from any person using this lexicon who can provide assistance in noting mistakes and oversights.

The editors sincerely hope that this lexicon will be of real service to biblical scholars, students, and New Testament translators, as well as to semanticists and lexicographers, since this is the first time that such a large body of lexical data has been submitted to careful analysis and organization into semantic domains.

1987 Johannes P. Louw and Eugene A. Nida

Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), iv–v.

Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words groups original language words by English translation:

ALL

A. Adjectives.

1. pas (πα̂ς, 3956) radically means “all.” Used without the article it means “every,” every kind or variety. So the rv marg. in Eph. 2:21, “every building,” and the text in 3:15, “every family,” and the rv marg. of Acts 2:36, “every house”; or it may signify “the highest degree,” the maximum of what is referred to, as, “with all boldness” Acts 4:29. Before proper names of countries, cities and nations, and before collective terms, like “Israel,” it signifies either “all” or “the whole,” e.g., Matt. 2:3; Acts 2:36. Used with the article, it means the whole of one object. In the plural it signifies “the totality of the persons or things referred to.” Used without a noun it virtually becomes a pronoun, meaning “everyone” or “anyone.” In the plural with a noun it means “all.” The neuter singular denotes “everything” or “anything whatsoever.” One form of the neuter plural (panta) signifies “wholly, together, in all ways, in all things,” Acts 20:35; 1 Cor. 9:25. The neuter plural without the article signifies “all things severally,” e.g., John 1:3; 1 Cor. 2:10; preceded by the article it denotes “all things,” as constituting a whole, e.g., Rom. 11:36; 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 3:9. See every, Note (1), whole.

2. hapas (ἅπας, 537), a strengthened form of pas, signifies “quite all, the whole,” and, in the plural, “all, all things.” Preceded by an article and followed by a noun it means “the whole of.” In 1 Tim. 1:16 the significance is “the whole of His longsuffering,” or “the fulness of His longsuffering. See every, whole.

3. holos (ὅλος, 3650), “the whole, all,” is most frequently used with the article followed by a noun, e.g., Matt. 4:23. It is used with the article alone, in John 7:23, “every whit”; Acts 11:26; 21:31; 28:30; Titus 1:11; Luke 5:5, in the best texts. See altogether.

Note: The adjective holokleros, lit., “whole-lot, entire,” stresses the separate parts which constitute the whole, no part being incomplete. See entire.

B. Adverbs.

1. holos (ὅλως, 3654) signifies “at all,” Matt. 5:34; 1 Cor. 15:29; “actually,” 1 Cor. 5:1, rv (kjv, wrongly, “commonly”); “altogether,” 1 Cor. 6:7 (kjv, “utterly).¶

Notes: (1) Holoteles, from A, No. 3, and telos, “complete,” signifies “wholly, through and through,” 1 Thess. 5:23, lit., “whole complete”; there, not an increasing degree of sanctification is intended, but the sanctification of the believer in every part of his being.¶

(2) The synonym katholou, a strengthened form of holou signifies “at all,” Acts 4:18.¶

2. pantos (πάντως, 3843), when used without a negative, signifies “wholly, entirely, by all means,” Acts 18:21 (kjv); 1 Cor. 9:22; “altogether,” 1 Cor. 9:10; “no doubt, doubtless,” Luke 4:23, rv (kjv, “surely”); Acts 28:4. In 21:22 it is translated “certainly,” rv, for kjv, “needs” (lit., “by all means”). With a negative it signifies “in no wise,” Rom. 3:9; 1 Cor. 5:10; 16:12 (at all). See altogether, doubt (no), means, surely, wise.¶

C. Pronoun.

hosa (ὅσος, 3745), the neuter plural of hosos, “as much as,” chiefly used in the plural, is sometimes rendered “all that,” e.g., Acts 4:23; 14:27. It really means “whatsoever things.” See Luke 9:10, rv, “what things.”

W. E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, and William White Jr., Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (Nashville, TN: T. Nelson, 1996), 21–22.

@BroRando November 17 Remember @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus when I showed that I am actaully means "to be"?

Is the “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I am!” sentence spoken by Jesus in john 8:58 complete ?

Why did Jewish religious leaders pick up stones, wanting to kill Jesus ? What did the Jews understand Jewish Rabbi Jesus to have said ?

John 8:52-59 LEB => The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham and the prophets died, and you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death forever.’ You are not greater than our father Abraham who died, are you? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself to be?” Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. The one who glorifies me is my Father, about whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ And you have not known him, but I know him. And if I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you! But I know him and I keep his word. Abraham your father rejoiced that he would see my day, and he saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I am!” Then they picked up stones in order to throw them at him. But Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple courts.

@BroRando November 15 Did you see "to be Christ." was removed from this inspired scripture? To be fair, it seems that ALMOST ALL of the Bibles on Biblehub removed CHRIST from the scripture.

Why do most English Bible translations not have "to be Christ." in Mark 1:34 ?

What percentage of words have no textual variation in thousands of Greek manuscripts ?

Keep Smiling 😊

Brother Rando · November 2021

You sure like to cut the scripture short when it reveals the truth that the Jesus is God's Son or Christ. (1 John 2:22)

@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus