Is Jesus God?
Comments
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It that were true then you would be forced to admit that God is not eternal but Begotten. And yes begotten means brought forth, came into existence, eimi (to be), made, and Created.
Yahweh created ME, the first of his ways, (Proverbs 8:22)
Jesus said to him: “Why do you call ME good? Nobody is good except one, God.” (Mark 10:18)
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They are one in a spiritual sense.... not literal as @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus claims, his arguement falls short when compared to simlar scriptures stated by Jesus...
I and the Father are one. (John 10:30)
I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one. (John 17:11) This also proves that Jesus is Not God as he addresses His God as the only true God in verse three and calls him Holy Father. They are one in a Father and Son relationship.
I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. (John 17:22)
Scoot over trinity... there is a whole lot more than three persons coming home for dinner. 😀
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus October 14 Jewish audience reaction in John 10:33 The Jews answered him, “We are not going to stone you concerning a good deed, but concerning blasphemy, and because you, although you are a man, make yourself to be אֱלֹהִים God!” shows Jews understood John 10:30 as The Father and I are one יהוה
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus October 14 Jesus is/was the only human to live a Holy righteous life (never choose to sin against plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God), which is consistent with Jeremiah 23:5-6 “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus October 14 If The Father and Jesus are One יהוה, then Proverbs 3:19 " יהוה Yahweh in wisdom founded the earth; he established the heavens in understanding." declares יהוה The Father and יהוה Jesus (The Word) in wisdom founded the earth, which is consistent with Jesus knowing אֱלֹהִים God's Glory (John 17:5) and אֱלֹהִים God's Love ❤️ before the foundation of the world.
@BroRando October 14 It that were true then you would be forced to admit that God is not eternal but Begotten. And yes begotten means brought forth, came into existence, eimi (to be), made, and Created.
Puzzled by idea that God is not eternal so please explain thought flow (does not make sense to me as plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God was/is/will be).
Hebrew language nouns have three forms of spelling for number: singular, dual, & plural. Hence, plural is a minimum of three for Hebrew nouns.
Plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God spoke in Genesis to create our physical realm, which included 1:26 And אֱלֹהִים God (plural) said, “Let us (plural) make (plural) humankind (singular) in our (plural) image (singular) and according to our (plural) likeness (singular), ....”
Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, Israel, יהוה Yahweh our God (plural אֱלֹהִים of us), יהוה Yahweh is unique.
What is plural in One יהוה Lord אֱלֹהִים God ?
@BroRando October 14 Yahweh created ME, the first of his ways, (Proverbs 8:22)
If The Father and Jesus are One יהוה, then Proverbs 8:22 " יהוה Yahweh created * me, the first of his ways, before his acts of old. ** "
* Or “possessed,” or “acquired”
** Literally “from before” or “from then”
Harris, W. H., III, Ritzema, E., Brannan, R., Mangum, D., Dunham, J., Reimer, J. A., & Wierenga, M. (Eds.). (2012). The Lexham English Bible. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.
declares יהוה The Father (The Will) and יהוה Jesus (The Word) created me, the first of his ways, before his acts of old. Humanly wonder about wisdom being created by plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God before "Let there be light!" that could be part of Jesus knowing אֱלֹהִים God's Glory (John 17:5) and אֱלֹהִים God's Love ❤️ (John 17:24) before the foundation of the world. Creation account in Genesis also does not say when messengers of God (angels) were created, which included the most beautiful angel, who choose to sin against אֱלֹהִים God so transformed into the father of lies (our spiritual adversary who intensely hates every human as every human shows the image of אֱלֹהִים God).
@BroRando October 14 Jesus said to him: “Why do you call ME good? Nobody is good except one, God.” (Mark 10:18)
Thankful for wealthy ruler and Jesus discussion, which showed wealthy ruler loved personal riches on earth more than obeying אֱלֹהִים God's Words spoken through Jesus for treasure in heaven. Every person chooses what to believe & love most. Thus, question to wealthy ruler shows אֱלֹהִים God knew inside heart motivation of wealthy ruler so correctly questioned: "Why do YOU call me good? ..."
And as he was setting out on his way, one individual ran up and knelt down before him and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do so that I will inherit eternal life?” So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.’ ” And he said to him, “Teacher, all these I have observed from my youth.” And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing: Go, sell all that you have, and give the proceeds to the poor—and you will have treasure in heaven—and come, follow me.” But he looked gloomy at the statement and went away sorrowful, because he had many possessions. (Mark 10:17-22 LEB)
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, “Good Teacher, by doing what will I inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’ ” And he said, “All these I have observed from my youth.” And when he heard this, Jesus said to him, “You still lack one thing: Sell all that you have, and distribute the proceeds to the poor—and you will have treasure in heaven—and come, follow me.” But when he heard these things he became very sad, because he was extremely wealthy. (Luke 18:18-23 LEB)
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus What is plural in One יהוה Lord אֱלֹהִים God ?
NOTHING is plural in the true God (One יהוה Lord אֱלֹהִים God), He is a singular entity spoken of throughout scripture in the singular (he, his, him + verbs in singular). The use of YHWH (singular noun) confirms this most basic truth that אֱלֹהִים God is only ONE singular individual.
The use of the plural noun Elohim for a singular individual uses the Hebrew idiom in order to emphasize and clarify His supremacy and majesty over all. When used with singular pronouns and verbs, it is not used in its literal plural sense. When used in a plural sense, pronouns and verbs are in the plural indicating the literal meaning of the word Elohim.
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True, but the feminine noun "gods" can also refer to angels good or bad, and also men, good or bad. Since angels and men are created beings. Jesus admitted of coimg from the gods who God santified and dispatched into the world. (John 10:33-36)
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True, but the feminine noun "gods" can also refer to angels good or bad, and also men, good or bad.
Again, the context of a passage determines the meaning and to what or whom a term refers.
Since angels and men are created beings. Jesus admitted of coimg from the gods who God santified and dispatched into the world. (John 10:33-36)
??? What kind of logic is this?
Where does Jesus say anything about coming from "the gods"? There is nothing in John 10:33ff indicating such an idea being propagated by Jesus.
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34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’?h 35 If he called them ‘gods’ to whom the word of God came—and the scripture cannot be broken—36 do you say about he whom the Father set apart and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
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34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’?h35 If he called them ‘gods’ to whom the word of God came—and the scripture cannot be broken—36 do you say about he whom the Father set apart and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
And where so these verses say what YOU claimed Jesus to have said ? Where did Jesus in these quoted passages say that he came from the (female?) gods?? Obvious to any reader of what the text records from Jesus' words is that nothing like that was said by Jesus.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus October 14 What is plural in One יהוה Lord אֱלֹהִים God ?
@Wolfgang October 15 NOTHING is plural in the true God (One יהוה Lord אֱלֹהִים God), He is a singular entity spoken of throughout scripture in the singular (he, his, him + verbs in singular). The use of YHWH (singular noun) confirms this most basic truth that אֱלֹהִים God is only ONE singular individual.
Scripture words inspired by One יהוה Lord אֱלֹהִים God include both singular & plural forms of pronouns & verbs for plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God and יהוה Lord. Thankful for Logos/Verbum Bible Search root:אֱלֹהִים INTERSECTS <Person God> that has 2,330 plural and 51 singular results.
Plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God spoke in Genesis to create our physical realm, which included plural us pronoun in Genesis 1:26 LEB: And אֱלֹהִים God (plural) said, “Let us (plural) make (plural) humankind (singular) in our (plural) image (singular) and according to our (plural) likeness (singular), ....”
The father of lies spoke in Genesis 3:1 LEB: Now the serpent was more crafty than any other wild animal which Yahweh God had made. He said to the woman, “Did אֱלֹהִים God (plural) indeed say, ‘You (plural) shall (plural) not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
Singular I pronoun & verbs for אֱלֹהִים in Genesis 9:1-5 LEB: And אֱלֹהִים God (plural) blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. And fear of you and dread of you shall be upon every animal of the earth, and on every bird of heaven, and on everything that moves upon the ground, and on all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they shall be given. Every moving thing that lives shall be for you as food. As I gave the green plants to you, I now give you everything. Only you shall not eat raw flesh with blood in it. And your lifeblood I will require; from every animal I will require it. And from the hand of humankind, from the hand of each man to his brother I will require the life of humankind.
Plural us pronoun & verb for יהוה in Genesis 11:6-7 LEB: And יהוה Yahweh said, “Behold, they are one people with one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. So now nothing that they intend to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us (plural) go (plural) down and confuse (plural) their language there, so that they will not understand each other’s language.”
Singular I pronoun & verb for אֱלֹהִים in Exodus 3:14 LEB: And אֱלֹהִים God (plural) said to Moses, “I am that I am.” And he said, “So you must say to the Israelites, ‘I am sent me to you.’ ”
Singular I pronoun & am verb for אֱלֹהִים in Exodus 6:2-3 LEB: And אֱלֹהִים God (plural) spoke to Moses, and he said to him, “I am יהוה Yahweh. And I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as God Shaddai, but by my name יהוה Yahweh I was not known to them.
@BroRando October 15 the feminine noun "gods" ... (John 10:33-36)
John 10:33-36 morphology tagging in the Lexham English Bible (in Logos Bible Software) shows two grammatical gender nouns being feminine: blasphemy & the Scriptures. Masculine words are translated "gods" & "God" in John 10:33-36 and Psalm 82.
The feminine noun "goddess" (Greek Strongs # 2299 θεά thĕa, theh-ah´; feminine of 2316; a female deity:—goddess.) is in one New Testament verse: Acts 19:27 reference to the great goddess Artemis.
Keep Smiling 😊
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Scripture words inspired by One יהוה Lord אֱלֹהִים God include both singular & plural forms of pronouns & verbs for plural el-o-HEEM אֱלֹהִים God and יהוה Lord.
All has been explained in harmony with contexts and overall scope of Scripture.
Thankful for Logos/Verbum Bible Search root:אֱלֹהִים INTERSECTS <Person God> that has 2,330 plural and 51 singular results.
All your impressive Logos skills are beside the point, and will not of themselves give any help for understanding.
By the way, your premise idea of a "plural one" God is in itself problematic and dilemma, because your "God" then is a group, team, etc.
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Jesus isn't the 'I am that Iam. Jesus is God's Chief Representative. Angels are Messengers. Jesus is the I am. "“For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,” (Acts 27 :23) egō eimi
The scritpures state that Moses spoke to God face to face but the scripture clear state that "No Man has Seen God at ANY Time" (John 1:18) So who was Moses speaking with? He was speaking to the Word of God in his pre-huiman existence.
And the Angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush, and he looked, and there was the bush burning with fire, but the bush was not being consumed. (Exodus 3:2)
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Jesus isn't the 'I am that Iam. Jesus is God's Chief Representative. Angels are Messengers. Jesus is the I am. "“For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,” (Acts 27 :23) egō eimi
Those who can read clearly have an advantage ....
There is NOTHING about Jesus in Acts 27:23 !! The words of Paul "whose I am" refer to Paul ... Paul is telling his aufience that the messenger of God appeared to him, and that he Paul - was God's servant ("whose I [Paul] am and whom I [Paul] serve ")
Is that difficult? Just leave theological nonsense where it belongs and READ the Biblical text ... One doesn't even need any special prayers for understanding as the passage could hardly be any clearer, simpler and easier to understand
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This shows that you are spiritually dead. Paul invokes the egō eimi “For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,” (Acts 27 :23)
And though my physical condition was a trial for you, you did not treat me with contempt or disgust; but you received me like an angel of God, like Christ Jesus. (Galatians 4:14)
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@BroRando posted:
This shows that you are spiritually dead. Paul invokes the egō eimi “For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,” (Acts 27 :23)
And though my physical condition was a trial for you, you did not treat me with contempt or disgust; but you received me like an angel of God, like Christ Jesus. (Galatians 4:14)
I don't agree that Wolfgang's reading of the Acts 27 text shows his spiritual death (a characteristic of posters, by the way, our criticism of which the CD expectation that we will "criticize ideas, not people" seems at minimum to discourage). In my view, his reading of the text shows his interpretation of the text, an interpretation which I think is correct.
Here are four translations' renderings of Acts 27.23-24: (emphasis added)
LEB: "For this night an angel of the God whose I am and whom I serve came to me saying, ‘Do not be afraid, Paul! It is necessary for you to stand before Caesar, and behold, God has graciously granted you all who are sailing with you.’"
ESB: "For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship, and he said, ‘Do not be afraid, Paul; you must stand before Caesar. And behold, God has granted you all those who sail with you."
NRSV: " For last night there stood by me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship, and he said, ‘Do not be afraid, Paul; you must stand before the emperor; and indeed, God has granted safety to all those who are sailing with you.’"
NIV: " For last night there stood by me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship, and he said, ‘Do not be afraid, Paul; you must stand before the emperor; and indeed, God has granted safety to all those who are sailing with you.’"
Clearly, in my view, in the text Paul uses the phrase egō eimi to describe an angel of the God to whom he, Paul, belongs, and whom he, Paul, worships. In its context, the phrase that some translations may render "whose I am" does not and cannot refer to God.
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This shows that you are spiritually dead. Paul invokes the egō eimi “For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,” (Acts 27 :23)
You use big words ... but do you even know what they mean? what is meant by "spiritually dead"? Have a look at Scripture and where this phrase occurs, and then please tell us your findings ...
The Greek words egō eimi are NOWHERE in Scripture used as the name of God .... have a look at Exo 3:14 in the Greek LXX translation:
καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν, καὶ εἶπεν Οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ισραηλ Ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς. (Septuaginta: With morphology. (1996). (Ex 3,14). Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft.)
Now tell us what you find there ...
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Yes... Paul belongs to this angel of God. Paul also emphassed to others, "in turn you belong to Christ; Christ, in turn, belongs to God." (1 Corinthioans 3:23) The angel of light that recruit Saul was in fact Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 10:7
You look at things according to their face value. If anyone is confident in himself that he belongs to Christ, let him reflect again on this fact: Just as he belongs to Christ, so do we also.
1 Corinthians 3:23
in turn you belong to Christ; Christ, in turn, belongs to God.
Galatians 3:29
Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring, heirs with reference to a promise.
2 Corinthians 1:21
But the one who guarantees that you and we belong to Christ and the one who anointed us is God.
Galatians 5:24
Moreover, those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed to the stake the flesh together with its passions and desires.
Mark 9:41
And whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, I tell you truly, he will by no means lose his reward.
Colossians 2:17
Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ.
Romans 1:6
among which nations you also have been called to belong to Jesus Christ—
1 Corinthians 15:23
But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.
Colossians 2:11
By your relationship with him, you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands by stripping off the fleshly body, by the circumcision that belongs to the Christ.
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Yes... Paul belongs to this angel of God. Paul also emphassed to others, "in turn you belong to Christ; Christ, in turn, belongs to God." (1 Corinthioans 3:23) The angel of light that recruit Saul was in fact Jesus Christ.
Correct... Christ is not God but rather "Christ, in turn, belongs to God." (1 Corinthioans 3:23)
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I never stated Wisdom is a person nor have I ever claimed that Jesus is God. Also, I never claim the "I am" is God but rather God's Represenative. Paul invokes the egō eimi “For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,” (Acts 27 :23)
You use big words ... but do you even know what they mean? what is meant by "spiritually dead"? Have a look at Scripture and where this phrase occurs, and then please tell us your findings ...
The Greek words egō eimi are NOWHERE in Scripture used as the name of God
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I never stated Wisdom is a person nor have I ever claimed that Jesus is God. Also, I never claim the "I am" is God but rather God's Represenative. Paul invokes the egō eimi “For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,” (Acts 27 :23)
Well, the words "I am" do not identify nor are they God's representative ! Paul does NOT invoke any egō eimi, he speaks of himself (!!) as "I" and uses the word "am" as the regular verb form of "to be". He does NOT use "I am" as a name for God's messenger.
The Greek words egō eimi are NOWHERE in Scripture used as the name of God
Nor are they used in Scripture as name or designation etc. for Jesus or anyone else
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But it does point to WHOM Paul belongs too. This angel of God is Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:23
in turn you belong to Christ; Christ, in turn, belongs to God.
Galatians 3:29
Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring, heirs with reference to a promise.
2 Corinthians 1:21
But the one who guarantees that you and we belong to Christ and the one who anointed us is God.
Galatians 5:24
Moreover, those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed to the stake the flesh together with its passions and desires.
Mark 9:41
And whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, I tell you truly, he will by no means lose his reward.
Colossians 2:17
Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ.
Romans 1:6
among which nations you also have been called to belong to Jesus Christ—
1 Corinthians 15:23
But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.
Colossians 2:11
By your relationship with him, you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands by stripping off the fleshly body, by the circumcision that belongs to the Christ.
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@BroRando posted:
Yes... Paul belongs to this angel of God. Paul also emphassed to others, "in turn you belong to Christ; Christ, in turn, belongs to God." (1 Corinthioans 3:23) The angel of light that recruit Saul was in fact Jesus Christ.
In Acts 27.23, Paul does NOT say he belongs to the "angel of God;" he says belongs to God, one of whose angels came to him. As I quoted from the ESB in my previous post (along with three other translations with identical meanings given to the text):
"For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship...."
An angel of the God to whom Paul belonged and whom he worshiped visited him. Paul says he belongs to God, not to God's angel.
I can't find textual support for your claim of an angel's involvement in Paul's recruitment. There's light in the scene, yes, but no mention of an angel that I can find. Please cite the verse(s) which in your view support your claim.
You and I agree that Jesus is not God. I'm not certain about the significance of the "belonging" we're discussing here other than the detail of whom Paul says he belongs to. According to Acts 27.23, it's God, not an angel of God.
In my understanding of his theology, Paul believes we can belong both to Christ and to God.
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The scripture you are quoting is Corrupt and Misleading. "For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship...."English Standard Version
The Greek doesn't not have the word WORSHIP. I challenge you to correct and admit you pruprosely used a falsified scripture. (Acts 27:23 Grrek)
Now prove your Deception or I will with future postings.
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@BroRando posted:
The scripture you are quoting is Corrupt and Misleading. "For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship...."English Standard Version. The Greek doesn't not have the word WORSHIP.
Of the 22 English language Bibles appearing in my text comparison tool in Logos, sixteen - a clear majority - use the word "serve" in Acts 27.23, while five use the word "worship" rather than serve in Acts 27.23 (the other Bible doesn't use any word to convey the meaning of the Greek word; odd). I dispute your contention that the five versions are "corrupt and misleading" on the basis of this portion of the entry for the Greek word λατρεύω in the respected Greek-English lexicon known as BDAG: (emphasis added)
λατρεύω fut. λατρεύσω; 1 aor. ἐλάτρευσα (Trag. et al. in var. senses, ‘work for pay, be in servitude, render cultic service’; ins, LXX; ApcMos 13; En, Philo, SibOr 4, 104; Just.) serve, in our lit. only of the carrying out of religious duties, esp. of a cultic nature, by human beings: λ. θεῷ (Eur., Ion 152; Plut., Mor. 405c; 407e; Philo, Spec. Leg. 1, 300 ὅλῃ τ. ψυχῇ; cp. En 10:21; Orig., C. Cels. 5, 11, 39 [w. προσκυνέω]) Mt 4:10; Lk 4:8 (both Dt 6:13); 1:74; Ac 7:7 (cp. Ex 3:12); 24:14; 27:23; Hb 9:14; Rv 7:15; 22:3;
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 587). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
In my view, "worship" is form of "cultic service" and/or a "religious duty, esp. of a cultic nature." It most certainly is not a "corrupt and misleading" rendering of the original Greek text.
I challenge you to correct and admit you pruprosely used a falsified scripture. (Acts 27:23 Grrek)
Thanks for the challenge, but I do not "admit" that I "pruprosely [sic] (or even "purposely") used a falsified" translation of the "Grrek" [sic] of Acts 27.23.
- As reported above, the ESV is not the only English language Bible to use "worship" rather than "serve" in the verse.
- As also shown above, the meaning of the Greek word λατρεύω justifies the use of the word "worship," or AT LEAST easily defends the word's use against charges of corruption and falsification.
- Your protest of the ESV's use of "worship" rather than "serve" was obviously important to you, but it was not among the two issues I raised in my previous post. I raised the issue of whom Paul said he belonged to in Acts 27.23, and whether Saul's recruitment experience included an angel. Your claims were that Paul said he belonged to the "angel of God" who visited him, and that the "angel of light" who recruited Saul was Jesus. My response was to quote from the ESV to show that Acts 27.23 says Paul thought he belonged to God, not the angel, and to ask where in Saul's recruitment experience you find support for your claim of an "angel." Light? Yes. But where in the text is the "angel"?
So I have addressed directly your accusations of corruption in the ESV's rendering of Acts 27.23 and of my "intentional" use of a "falsified scripture." Please now deal directly with the issues I raised to you.
And while you're at it - i.e. dealing directly with the questions I ask you - you can revisit THIS POST in a different thread, which includes questions I first raised to you on October 12 and which you have yet even to mention, let alone directly address, even though I have asked them multiple times.
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@BroRando wrote:
The scripture you are quoting is Corrupt and Misleading. "For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship...."English Standard Version
The Greek doesn't not have the word WORSHIP. I challenge you to correct and admit you pruprosely used a falsified scripture. (Acts 27:23 Grrek)
Now prove your Deception or I will with future postings.
Well, of course the Greek text doesn't have the (English) word "worship", it has the Greek word λατρεύω (latreuō) which may be translated into English as "worship" in various contexts
The pic you provide of the Greek-English interlinear text for Acts 27:23 actually shows another point of your earlier contention to be inaccurate:
The particular unusual word order shows plainly that Paul refers to GOD with his words "whose I am and whom I serve" , and not God's "messenger". In addition, your further claim that Jesus is that angel of God is nowhere supported in Scripture and thus unwarranted.
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@BroRando said to @Bill_Coley:
The scripture you are quoting is Corrupt and Misleading. "For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship...."English Standard Version
The Greek doesn't not have the word WORSHIP. I challenge you to correct and admit you pruprosely used a falsified scripture. (Acts 27:23 Grrek)
"And hewn themselves cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water" (Jer. 2:13). Allow me to say, "broken cisterns that can hold no water," or it can't provide a straightforward reading of the Word.
Are you serious or trying to be clever? How can you accuse someone of using "falsified scripture" when you direct people to your Church's bias Bible Translation? Namely, I speak of the Jehovah's Witnesses (JWs) "New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Study Edition)" [appears as NWT].
Your position reveals your source on Acts 27: 23 -- "to whom I render sacred service: Or "whom I serve (worship)."—See study note on Ac 26:7. You need to add that this link leads to your Church's website and Translation. Is this fair?
More later on "Corrupt and Misleading". CM
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"The God" is the true God, Jehovah. The note finishes with Some translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures into Hebrew (referred to as J14-17 in App. C4) read “serving (worshipping) Jehovah.” Also the Angel of the God is Jesus Christ who stood by Paul and recruited him earlier.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,
Jesus as the word of God is the Angel of Jehovah who appeared to Moses in what" In a flame of fire... (Genesis 3:2)
Revelation 2:18
“To the angel of the congregation in Thy·a·tiʹra write: These are the things that the Son of God says, the one who has eyes like a fiery flame and whose feet are like fine copper:
Hebrews 1:7
Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
Psalm 104:4
He makes his angels spirits, His ministers a consuming fire.
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The Greek plainly shows that Paul refers to the Angel of God with his words whose I am and "whom I serve" , belonging to God's "messenger" as Christ Jesus. Paul worships the God Jehovah, and recognizes that Christ is the Angel of the God.
1 Corinthians 3:23
in turn you belong to Christ; Christ, in turn, belongs to God.
2 Corinthians 1:21
But the one who guarantees that you and we belong to Christ and the one who anointed us is God.
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@BroRando wrote
Jesus as the word of God is the Angel of Jehovah who appeared to Moses in what" In a flame of fire... (Genesis 3:2)
This statement has false assumptions propagated as if they were Biblical text truths:
- "Jesus as the word of God ..." -- there is NO scripture to support the idea that Jesus actually was a living acting word of God being
- "the word of God is the Angel of Jehovah ..." -- there is NO scripture to support this idea "word of God" = a living acting person
- "appeared to Moses ..." -- there is NO scripture to support this idea of Jesus living and doing anything prior to being born.
Please, don't try and prove something with scriptures that you interpret as support but which don't really support such false assumptions,
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When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause? (Job 38:7)
I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star. (Revelation 22:16)
Genesis 1:1 is not the Beginning of Creation (Jonn 1:1-3) is the Beginning of Creation. Then we also have, "So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth. (John 1:14)
The deity of Christ is about his humanity. But deity is also a Creation... he's not God but Represents him... given authority to Judge.
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