USA .... quo vadis?
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I've listed the evidence in other threads.
They had to go to court to get count observers inside to observe which is required they be allowed by law. We now see convenient software glitches in Michigan. Ballot dumps in the middle of the night, not processed, delivered ballots after deadlines, we see a whistleblower come forward saying the USPS was deliberately postmarking ballots for the 3rd after Election day so they would count.
How much more evidence do you need? Oh there is also the lady in Nevada that went to vote and was informed that she had already voted by mail..hmmmmm...except she never requested a ballot...hmmm
Also, Nevada has now referred over 3,000 cases of voter fraud to the justice department.
But yeah Bill, you are right, there is no evidence at all of any voter fraud...
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@reformed posted:
But yeah Bill, you are right, there is no evidence at all of any voter fraud...
I'm not going to play whack-a-mole with you, but to highlight the imprecision of your claims, I must ask why you chose not to tell us that in Nevada, it was the state's Republican Party, not the state of Nevada itself, that filed a criminal referral to the Justice Department. Did you not think it relevant that we know the party alleging fraud is the party losing the presidential vote count in the state?
FYI, the ACLU - indeed, another partisan entity - has issued some counsel on this matter, all asserted facts of which seem accurate to me.
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ACLU is trash I don't even give them the time of day for any issue no matter what position they take.
And it doesn't matter that it was the party. The fact is they have evidence of over 3,000 counts of voter fraud.
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@reformed posted:
ACLU is trash I don't even give them the time of day for any issue no matter what position they take.
I respect your view, but even trash talkers can tell the truth. Is there any assertion of legal fact in the ACLU's tweet that is false? I bet not.
And it doesn't matter that it was the party. The fact is they have evidence of over 3,000 counts of voter fraud.
At the moment, they have a claim of voter fraud. The Justice Department, followed by the courts if Justice pursues criminal cases, will decide the significance of their "evidence." Given the number of alleged cases and the fact that there are NEVER that many cases of actual voter fraud in an election, my guess is nothing will come of the claims. We'll see.
NOTE: According to The Washington Post, in the 2016 and 2018 elections held in the vote-by-mail states of Oregon, Colorado, and Washington, there were a total of "372 possible cases of double voting or voting on behalf of deceased people out of about 14.6 million votes cast by mail in the 2016 and 2018 general elections, or 0.0025 percent." Twenty-five ten-thousandths of a percent is not what I would call a threatening fraud percentage: About 31 of all the votes counted in Nevada so far. About 3,600 of ALL votes cast in ALL states so far. If Trump gets within 31 votes of Biden in Nevada (spoiler - he won't) then I'll fret about fraud.
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I dont know what the tweet said so I can't comment on it.
Don't I recall you saying something about evidence in a case involving Trump and you lecturing me that there was evidence the question is whether or not there was actual wrong doing? Double Standard Bill?
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@reformed posted:
I don't recall what the tweet said so I can't comment on it.
I provided the link in a previous post. Here's the tweet for your review...
Don't I recall you saying something about evidence in a case involving Trump and you lecturing me that there was evidence the question is whether or not there was actual wrong doing? Double Standard Bill?
I don't know what you recall, but the circumstances are different (though comparable in one sense):
- During the impeachment, your claim was that there was "no evidence" of impeachable conduct, a claim to which I responded basically as you note - there WAS evidence; the issue was whether that evidence was enough to impeach and then convict.
- In this current matter I responded to your claim this way: (emphasis added) "At the moment, they have a claim of voter fraud. The Justice Department, followed by the courts if Justice pursues criminal cases, will decide the significance of their "evidence." Given the number of alleged cases and the fact that there are NEVER that many cases of actual voter fraud in an election, my guess is nothing will come of the claims. We'll see." That is, I acknowledged the existence of evidence, but asserted that it's up to the Justice Department and others to decide the significance of that evidence - whether the evidence is sufficient to pursue a criminal inquiry.
So I acknowledged the existence of evidence in the current case (i.e. no double standard); you didn't in the impeachment case. In both cases, however, someone other than the evidence adducers will decide the significance of the evidence.
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I don't think it is fair to say there is never that many cases of actual voter fraud either. I'd say our overall election system is so broken we will never know.
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A politician in the know (Mr. Seehofe, currently isecretary of the interior in Germany's Merkel regime) once said in a televised talk show a rather fitting statement:
"Those who are elected, do not decide; and those who decide are not elected."
Observing things and looking on from the outside, I realize more and more what is going on in the USA, and has been going on for a very long time. The population of the USA at large is not and maybe has never been living in "the land of the free and the home of the brave" ... Yes, the lands between the shining seas and shores of the Atlantic and Pacific were once upon a time the land of the free and the home of the brave, before the "would be kings" arrived from the old world and took over the home and land and killed the free and the brave ... to establish by brute force their land of the opposite of free and brave ... giving the people the illusion of free and brave, while in reality keeping them under their thumb.
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How can it be that when counting the votes in States like Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania etc ....the counting of the votes from the State's population "in person voting" people show a rather tight result (such as ~>50% vs ~<50%), and then the same State's population "mail in voting" people have a result of ~<90% for the "blue" candidate?
There are people who have still some common sense left and who have perhaps been volunteer helpers for many years in various elections (such as this writer here in Germany) who know that such ""mail in voting" result is manipulated and stinks to heaven (one can small it from thousands of miles away .. perhaps having that distance is an advantage, and the reason why so many local blues don't smell anything nor see the obvious right in front of their nose and eyes ...????
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It seems like the elite powers have managed via the media to more or less officially announce their candidates' appointments to the position of occupant of the White House .... won't be long until "dirty old white man" is replaced by the real choice ... the self-declared "black" woman.
And those on favor of being enslaved by elites, your joy will die as quickly as your applause fades.
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This president is showing his true ELITE colours and whose "White House occupant" he was .... hint: it was apparently not the US American people.
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Yeah I was disappointed to see his statement.
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@reformed wrote
Yeah I was disappointed to see his statement.
It also shows that the US people have been duped for a while into thinking that there is a genuine difference between "republican" and "democrat" which quite obviously does not really exist. The difference would be between "establishment elite" and "non-establishment/elite".
The "problem" with Trump appears to be that he is not a part of the long existing "establishment elite", thus the fierce animosity from political party, military-industrial complex, finance sharks, etc. ????
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Biden's own testimony ...
"Secondly, we are in a situation where we have put together, and you guys eh did did a fraud minist…, the president Obamas administration before this, we have put together, I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organisation in the history of American politics.”
https://sciencefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Biden-electoral-fraud.mp4?_=1
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Did President Trump Just Launch the Largest Sting Operations in US History Against the Corrupt Swamp of the Democratic Party?
11818 Views November 07, 2020 126 Comments
by Peter Koenig for the Saker Blog
Remember when Donald Trump said before the 2016 Elections, he wanted to be President to clean up the swamp in Washington? Well, he may be just doing that. President Trump may have just launched a massive sting operation against the rotten flagrant corruption of the “Democrats”. He knew they were planning a massive election fraud, when they insisted on mail-in votes, similar to the absentee votes, and asked that the mail-in votes would be counted at the end.
Pretext for the mail-in votes was “covid” – social distancing, not getting near each other standing in line for voting. A perfect excuse, transformed into a massive voter fraud.
Between 3:30 AM and 4:30 AM, they “found” 140,000 mail-in ballots for Biden in Wisconsin;
Between 3:30 AM and 5:00 AM, they “found” 200,000 mail-in ballots for Biden in Michigan;
Between 2:00 AM and 4:00 AM, they found a million (1,000,000) mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania
All mail-in ballots “received” in the morning hours of November 4, way beyond the voting deadline. All for Biden, none for Trump
Reference video https://www.bitchute.com/video/KWGj0NtpPgsH/?list=notifications&randomize=false about minute 1’45”.
Republicans were not allowed to be near the ballot counting as observers, as is the common rule in election vote counting, that the opposition is present, to observe the counting process. Example given in Pennsylvania by former Mayor of New York, Rudy Giuliani, who denounces “fraud and corruption” in Philadelphia, his home town; see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9898bDivIl0&feature=youtu.be
Seems to me that this information further confirms fraud of the Democrats "most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organisation in the history of American politics" as announced by Biden
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Democrats are cheating in this election? Your proof?
Democrats who went through the trouble to spy on Trump? This claim has been debunked by every credible investigation, but you may have others. Your proof?
The Democrats and FBI agents helped make false accusations about illegal involvement with Russians? Which Democrats and which FBI agents made which "false accusations" of illegal involvement?
Impeachment is a constitutional remedy afforded to the House of Representatives. How did their following the Constitution demonstrate their willingness to cheat on an election? Did the Republicans in the 1997-98 House of Representatives demonstrate THEIR willingness to cheat on an election when they impeached Bill Clinton?
Vote counting is overseen by bipartisan boards of elections and happens at precinct-, county-, and state locations. Where is your evidence that EITHER party is interfering in the vote counting process (you don't have to cite the president's many lawsuits aimed at stopping vote counts; we know he's trying to interfere with the vote counting process).
You don't know that the Democrats kept accusing Trump of having Russian ties?
They kept accusing him of that and had no proof, but you want to lecture me as you stand up for them.
You don't know about the fake dossier that they had made?
That is criminal.
You don't know that the impeachment was unfounded?
You want proof that the election is corrupt? I'll give it to you.
Joe Bidden was the one getting money after setting his son up with many foreign countries. He should be in jail and not elected as president.
Anyone as crooked as the Democrats and Joe Bidden and the Clinton's are capable of rigging the election.
When you got criminals running for election, then you just trust them and accept the outcome?
That would be a stupid thing.
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@YourTruthGod posted:
You don't know that the Democrats kept accusing Trump of having Russian ties?
They kept accusing him of that and had no proof, but you want to lecture me as you stand up for them.
You don't know about the fake dossier that they had made?
That is criminal.
You don't know that the impeachment was unfounded?
You want proof that the election is corrupt? I'll give it to you.
Joe Bidden was the one getting money after setting his son up with many foreign countries. He should be in jail and not elected as president.
Anyone as crooked as the Democrats and Joe Bidden and the Clinton's are capable of rigging the election.
When you got criminals running for election, then you just trust them and accept the outcome?
That would be a stupid thing.
By my quick count, six of what I see as the seven assertions of fact you make here are demonstrably false or misleading, but the fact that you offer single sentence declarations as proof of your previous claims tells me that engaging you on these matters would not be satisfying for me as one who prefers to demonstrate the truth of my claims with facts, data, and links to sources. At best, then, our discussion of your single sentence declarations would resolve into a game of forensic whack-a-mole, and I don't consider that to be a good outcome.
One important correction to your narrative, however: The president-elect's last name is "Biden," not "Bidden."
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We don't yet know what the President-elect's name is because we do not yet have one.
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Well, well ... are we talking about an election in the USA or some "banana republic" about which USA politicians always complain "fraud, fraud" ???
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Hi fellow forum participants,
some info from often as "conspiracy theorist" done away with sources:
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There has been a revolution against red state America, not an election
Dear Readers,
There has been a revolution against red state America, not an election.
There are many credible reports of organized vote fraud committed by Democrats. The only question is whether the Republican establishment will support challenging the documented fraud or whether Trump will be pressured to concede in order to protect the undeserved reputation of American Democracy.
For those influenced by a partisan media that is denying the massive fraud that occurred, here is an overview of the elements of the fraud and the legal remedies. https://www.unz.com/article/of-color-revolutions-foreign-and-domestic-the-first-72-hours/
____________________________________________
Ever heard of "colour revolutions" over recent years ? All of them were USA backed and instigated ....now it turns out who the real instigators inside the USA were .... because now a "blue revolution" is going on right inside the USA.
Post edited by [Deleted User] on -
Jon Voight speaks on election fraud!
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@Wolfgang posted:
Jon Voight speaks on election fraud!
AT LAST we hear from an expert on voter fraud! It's about time.
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@Bill_Coley wrote:
AT LAST we hear from an expert on voter fraud! It's about time.
Well, there are many very concerned expert citizens ... 😉
One needs actually not really be an expert on election fraud to SEE ... plain common sense, some experience in counting and statistics and math, a little careful observation and clear thinking about what info has been given on non main-stream propaganda media channels ...that and more adds up.
Actually Biden's own testimony during a Q&A session during his campaign in late October, quite openly and even boldly declares what his campaign has put in place for quite some time ... I am rather saddened that any USA citizen having a little sense of liberty and justice left would vote in favor of a Fraudster ...
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@Wolfgang posted:
Well, there are many very concerned expert citizens ... 😉
There's nothing worse than a nation with a bunch of "concerned amateur citizens."
One needs actually not really be an expert on election fraud to SEE ... plain common sense, some experience in counting and statistics and math, a little careful observation and clear thinking about what info has been given on non main-stream propaganda media channels ...that and more adds up.
You advocate for "plain common sense," and "experience in counting and statistics and math," and "a little observation and clear thinking." But you don't offer any evidence. Proving claims of voter fraud won't happen because clear-headed observers employ common sense. It will happen only if people present concrete, fact-based evidence of voter fraud.
Actually Biden's own testimony during a Q&A session during his campaign in late October, quite openly and even boldly declares what his campaign has put in place for quite some time ... I am rather saddened that any USA citizen having a little sense of liberty and justice left would vote in favor of a Fraudster ...
I have no idea what you're talking about here. Please tell us about "Biden's own testimony" and how that "testimony" in late October proves voter fraud in the November 3 general election.
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@Bill_Coley wrote
There's nothing worse than a nation with a bunch of "concerned amateur citizens."
Not, if the amateurs are the one who still use their mental abilities of logic, reasoning, sound thinking and common sense.
Proving claims of voter fraud won't happen because clear-headed observers employ common sense. It will happen only if people present concrete, fact-basedevidence of voter fraud.
You are talking about PROVING voter fraud .... are you aware that such does not equal FRAUD ?? Fraud is not dependent on whether someone can prove it, as it obviously happened before someone becomes suspicious due to noticing "highly unusual" matters and "very improbable or commonly deemed impossible" things.
Please tell us about "Biden's own testimony" and how that "testimony" in late October proves voter fraud in the November 3 general election.
was mentioned already earlier in this thread:
"Secondly, we are in a situation where we have put together, and you guys eh did did a fraud minist…, the president Obamas administration before this, we have put together, I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organisation in the history of American politics.”
https://sciencefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Biden-electoral-fraud.mp4?_=1
What does that prove regarding voter fraud for this election? It proves exactly what Biden with his own words confirms ... how about involvement in very large scale criminal activity against the USA people?
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@Wolfgang posted:
You are talking about PROVING voter fraud .... are you aware that such does not equal FRAUD ?? Fraud is not dependent on whether someone can prove it, as it obviously happened before someone becomes suspicious due to noticing "highly unusual" matters and "very improbable or commonly deemed impossible" things.
Of course "proving voter fraud" is not the same as the fraud itself; I didn't claim it is. My concern was claims of fraud, which ultimately are either true or false. Unproven fraud claims MIGHT be true, but absent convincing proof, they are unproven speculative assertions which must not be given the status of proven ones. Unproven fraud claims, absent ANY proof - as is the case with claims of widespread fraud in our 2020 election - are dangerous because they can prohibit a democracy's advance into the future as they hobble the workings of leaders and the institutions in which they serve.
There is NO proof and NO evidence (the core ingredient of proof) of widespread voter fraud in our recent election. None. What there are, are unproven allegations of fraud, which are easily imagined, but not so easily dispatched, particularly when the collection of evidence-free claims reaches numerically significant numbers. In the face of such mounting quantities of claims, lower information citizens might decide quantity means quality, so there must be something there... which in this case there isn't. Bottom line: At some point, the health of a democracy depends on its ability to process, reject, and dissuade people from creating evidence-free fraud claims. Sadly, Mr Trump has not received that message.
was mentioned already earlier in this thread:
"Secondly, we are in a situation where we have put together, and you guys eh did did a fraud minist…, the president Obamas administration before this, we have put together, I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organisation in the history of American politics.”
Did you investigate this quotation in any way? Do you know the context of these words? I'm guessing the candid answer to both of those questions is "no," because if you knew the context, you'd know that Mr. Biden wasn't at all confessing to his having created a fraud organization. He was talking about encouraging people to vote despite the president's many efforts to suppress turnout. In the same response, Mr. Biden referenced the expansive legal team his campaign had recruited to fight against efforts to dissuade or not count votes (e.g. via false fraud claims).
You can read the fuller context of the quotation for yourself HERE, but in sum, those words were part of a larger response to a question about getting people out to vote. First, he said people need to make a plan to vote because the GOP was working hard to make voting difficult. Second, he said his campaign had set up a system - which he mistakenly called a "voter fraud organization" - to assure that all votes are counted, even in the face of Trump administration efforts to dissuade and deny votes. Finally, he gave voters a number to call if they faced any roadblocks in casting their votes.
Mr Biden was trying to assure voters that they could vote and their vote would be counted. Unfortunately, he misspoke; he's prone to do that. As the article to which I link above notes, Fox News speculated that Biden was likely misspeaking about his campaign's "election protection program," of which the aforementioned assembly of lawyers is the core.
This is an example of the importance of reading words in context. Such a practice is valuable in Bible study AND in analyzing political discourse.
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@Bill_Coley wrote
Mr. Biden referenced the expansive legal team his campaign had recruited to fight against efforts to dissuade or not count votes (e.g. via false fraud claims).
And these measures were exactly part of how the fraud was organized ... change the existing procedures to procedures by which you can exercise fraud more easily (the whole "mail in voting" stuff ) .....
This time around, the Democrat / Biden camp organized their stealing operation better (exactly as Mr. Biden admitted) ..... his statement reminded me of the GDR Dictatorship announcing the building of the iron curtain for the noble reason of "protection of our people" from the enemy, which of course was in reality a prison wall to steal the people's liberty.
We currently have the same type of fraud by our Merkill regime brainwashing the people into thinking that the mandatory mask everywhere "is only for your protection and safety from the invisible virus enemy", when in reality the masks have basically no positive effect health wise (the opposite is actually true), but is the means to have people enslave each other by reporting "slightest mask irregulations" as if they were fatal crimes.
I see the same divisive devilish doings in the USA with what the Democrats have been doing over years now ... not one lousy thing profitable to the population, but too busy blaming results of their own devastating doings of previous administrations on the current administration.
On the other hand ..... in the USA over last century, only presidents serving the military-industrial complex and elites behind the scenes have been granted a second term in office .... all presidents involving themselves with more de-escalating steps and ending of war rather than fueling new wars have been "outed" after the first term or didn't survive the first term.
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@Bill_Coley wrote
Of course "proving voter fraud" is not the same as the fraud itself; I didn't claim it is. My concern was claims of fraud, which ultimately are either true or false. Unproven fraud claims MIGHT be true, but absent convincing proof, they are unproven speculative assertions which must not be given the status of proven ones.
Does personal testimony under oath still count in the USA?
all no proof ?? ... It's more than high noon to wake up out of "blue mainstream media induced hypnosis".
IF indeed there is no fraud and thus no evidence of fraud, on what basis would or could legal challenges be filed by counsel Giuliani? Why would or should he destroy and squander his reputation by filing legal challenges with no evidence??
Instead of wondering about if there is no evidence or evidence, I am far more concerned that unfortunately some politicians rather stick with lies and deny the fraud because they supposedly want to safeguard USA reputation in the world, which of course would be ruined or at least greatly suffer from admitting that the "exceptional indispensable democracy nation" had the Democrats steal the presidential election. Most likely, out of false sense of patriotism they would rather sweep the election fraud under the table and sacrifice the actual winner of the election. But then, let's see what USA is made of ... if there are still "free and brave" to be found
Post edited by [Deleted User] on -
@Wolfgang posted:
And these measures were exactly part of how the fraud was organized ... change the existing procedures to procedures by which you can exercise fraud more easily (the whole "mail in voting" stuff ) .....
Before you declare how the fraud was organized, you must first prove that the fraud existed. And remember, the issue is widespread fraud, not isolated, individual cases of fraud. SOME level of fraud occurs in every election.
In that regard, fraud is akin to dust particles in our homes. Even the best filtration systems can't eliminate every single dust particle. But that's okay, because in rooms the size we live in, isolated, individual dust particles don't bother us. But if filtration breaks down, then the dust particle population can rise to affect the way we live so greatly that we have to take action. Widespread voter fraud is akin to an unhealthy dust particle population in our homes. And widespread voter fraud is something for which there is NO evidence, NONE.
There is NO evidence - none - that "the whole 'mail in voting' stuff" has created widespread voter fraud. Multiple states in the country have for several years relied on mail-in voting exclusively (Oregon has done so since 1998). There is NO history of widespread vote fraud in those states - NONE.
This time around, the Democrat / Biden camp organized their stealing operation better (exactly as Mr. Biden admitted) ..... his statement reminded me of the GDR Dictatorship announcing the building of the iron curtain for the noble reason of "protection of our people" from the enemy, which of course was in reality a prison wall to steal the people's liberty.
As I showed you from the context of Mr. Biden's statement, your interpretation of Mr Biden's remark is wrong.
We currently have the same type of fraud by our Merkill regime brainwashing the people into thinking that the mandatory mask everywhere "is only for your protection and safety from the invisible virus enemy", when in reality the masks have basically no positive effect health wise (the opposite is actually true), but is the means to have people enslave each other by reporting "slightest mask irregulations" as if they were fatal crimes.
You're wrong to assert that masks have "no positive effect health wise," and even more wrong to assert that the "the opposite is actually true." HERE'S A REVIEW OF DATA FROM KANSAS that reports in graphical form the obvious difference in results between counties that imposed masked mandates and those that did not. And HERE'S AN ARTICLE FROM 'NATURE' that summarizes the scientific truth about masks. There is ZERO doubt that masks help; your claim that they don't is false. Masks don't provide absolute protection!!! But they definitely and without a doubt help.
I see the same divisive devilish doings in the USA with what the Democrats have been doing over years now ... not one lousy thing profitable to the population, but too busy blaming results of their own devastating doings of previous administrations on the current administration.
On the other hand ..... in the USA over last century, only presidents serving the military-industrial complex and elites behind the scenes have been granted a second term in office .... all presidents involving themselves with more de-escalating steps and ending of war rather than fueling new wars have been "outed" after the first term or didn't survive the first term.
I'm posting in this thread to discuss the 2020 American election and the issue of voter fraud. Hence, I have no comment to offer about this part of your post.
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No evidence except whistleblowers, affidavits, witnesses, irregularities, late ballots, and more.... But Bill is right, nothing to see here, move on everybody...
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