Preparation for War: The Dog Is About To Wag Its Tail.

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Comments

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,640

    Right, because they hadn't attacked our Embassy, or ships, or drones in the last two years....

    Exactly ... Iraqi people demonstrated in front of the USA embassy and did so rather loudly and aggressively. So what? This was in IRAQ ... not in Iran. Which USA ships were attacked by Iran? None. Yes, a USA drone was shot down ... rightfully so since it was violating Iranian air space.

    Something you may not have been told in USA media ... this general is highly regarded as commander for the success against the ISIS terroristss in both Iraq and Syria. The ISIS feared him and his forces and encountered defeat upon defeat along the way. It was NOT the USA and its allies who have defeated ISIS, rather more and more evidence is coming out that the USA has been supporting them. How else is it that USA forces can't defeat them in years, and other forces come on the scene and crash them in months??

    Do you not know that the USA has been conducting its war against Iraq for all these years based on lies (as Colin Powell openly admitted after he had left the regime in Washington) ?

    Right, this wasn't retaliatory at all.... Oh brother.

    RIght ... it was plain straight forward aggression with the intent to demonstrate "something" pertaining to the self-declared "indispensable nation" and to instigate a war against Iran (which is the last country on a USA list of Muslim countries that were to be defeated and wrecked and ruined so they could be exploited.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,640

    oh oh .... Trump claims that this Iranian general has killed "so many thousands" of US soldiers/citizens ?? Hmn ... how come nobody ever admitted such a USA death toll before?? Logical thinking and watchful observation of all sides of the coin will perhaps allow to learn a bit of truth amidst the lies and propaganda dumped on the American and other Western nations' people

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,640

    Hmn ... who is lying and who would have a reason to lie? Trump, Pompeo and friends announced that there were no US soldiers killed or wounded in the recent retaliatory strike by Iran on an airbase in Iraq .... satellite picture of the damages seem to tell a different story, and someone twittered from Israel the following:

    Will the US public ever be told the truth of what is really going on there?

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,033

    @Wolfgang posted:

    who is lying and who would have a reason to lie? Trump, Pompeo and friends announced that there were no US soldiers killed or wounded in the recent retaliatory strike by Iran on an airbase in Iraq .... satellite picture of the damages seem to tell a different story, and someone twittered from Israel the following: ...

    Will the US public ever be told the truth of what is really going on there?

    Sure is odd, Wolfgang, that Haaretz - according to one of the tweets you quoted, the media outlet that has received "reports" of U.S. aircraft ferrying 224 injured American soldiers to Tel Aviv for medical care - makes NO mention of those reports on its website. Such reporting would be an enormous scoop for Haaretz, one that would surely trigger global recognition of its journalism, yet nowhere on its site - not even on its page set aside to cover "the Iran missile strike" - does it mention those reports. I wonder whether the author of that tweet will ever tell us "the truth of what is really going on there"?

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,640
    edited January 9

    I wonder whether the author of that tweet will ever tell us "the truth of what is really going on there"?

    By the way, the info mentioned does not claim that Haaretz published such information, but that it had received such information. Apparently the mentioned reporter Jack Khoury is connected to Haaretz.

    Since his twitter account has been suspended (wonder why???), I suppose he won't be able to tell more about it ?

    As for mainstream official media, I have experienced numerous times here in Germany that what is reported quickly or shortly after some incident is all of a sudden no longer available or changed a little while later once "the official story" has come out and what reporters wrote earlier just disappears without further comment .... perhaps such only happens in Germany and its mainstream media?

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,626

    Wolfgang,

    If half of this is true, Trump is the worst person one can imagine. Even if it's totally false, Trump allowed Americans soldiers to be decoys (shot at). This is upmost shameful. Then, Trump did nothing after all of his big talk. If one is going to fight a war, fight. If two sides can set limits to fighting, then they can avoid fighting and make peace.

    This whole thing seems to be a game for both sides. It appears to be about money (global-markets). People are dying needlessly. The shame of it all, Trump can't be believed about anything. Trump is trying to out do Obama, distract from impeachment, and help his re-election chances. I feels sorry for the soldiers in harms-way and the parents and spouses with loved ones in the US. Military.

    When is it that a US President allows it soldiers to be shot at, knows in advance when and who's doing it? On second thought, some theorists said America may have had advanced knowledge in Pearl Harbor and Vietnam (Gulf of Tomkins). Given what happened recently, one wonders. It's sad. For the families of loved ones, I hope there is no truth to it. Israel would never tolerate this kind of behavior toward its soldiers that happened to American men and women, in uniform, the other day. America is vastly becoming a "Paper Tiger". CM

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,033

    @Wolfgang posted:

    By the way, the info mentioned does not claim that Haaretz published such information, but that it had received such information. Apparently the mentioned reporter Jack Khoury is connected to Haaretz.

    My point is that reputable media outlets that received "reports" of 224 injured American soldiers transported out of their country of deployment following an air strike would very likely at least mention their receipt of those reports. They might say "we haven't yet been able to confirm these reports," but they'd still present them because such reports would be an international scoop. That didn't happen in this case, and the most plausible explanation is the claims in the tweets are false.

    Do you seriously believe 224 injured soldiers could be moved out of Iraq and into Tel Aviv without ANYONE in Tel Aviv noticing or reporting?

    Why was Khoury's Twitter account suspended? A Google search produced the answer: The suspended account was a fake account, from someone pretending to be Khoury. According to Khoury, "A fake account impersonating me was pushing fake news with my name on it. It has been suspended from Twitter."

    Bottom Line: The story reported in those tweets was false, and there was never any reason to believe it was true.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,842
  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,033

    @Wolfgang posted:

    have a look at another news source ... and evaluate for yourselves....

    1) The other "news source" quotes an interview granted to an Iranian media outlet by an Iranian military officer. The closest thing to evidence the account offers that injured American soldiers were taken to Israel are the general's claims that a) those injured were transported in nine planes (!) and 2) that in his opinion, "there is no doubt that there are dead & injured among the US forces."

    • Now your sources want us to believe that nine planes carrying injured Americans landed in Israel without anyone noticing or reporting. That's simply not at all plausible.
    • The general's assessment of the likelihood of deaths and injuries as the result of the strike is not evidence of such deaths and injuries.

    The article reads like the Iranian government's talking points on the effects of its strike... which given the original media source of the material - Iran's Al-Alam News/Fars News Agency - is exactly what the article contains.


    2) Your reply doesn't mention, let alone address, the substance of my previous post in which I showed definitively that the two "Jack Khoury" tweets you included in an earlier post were created by someone impersonating the real Jack Khoury, that Khoury himself has declared those tweets to be "fake news." Do you acknowledge that the tweets you posted are indeed fake?

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,626

    Reformed,

    Beyond using your favorite word, "stupid", what is it that you disagreed with in my last post?

    1. Is it that Trump lies continuously?
    2. It's very hard to trust anything Trump says? He is not trustworthy.
    3. The USA and the Iraqi were warned in advanced of missiles by Iran?
    4. An agreement to avoid bombing "cultural sites"?
    5. Trump did a lot of "big talk" of America and its powerful missiles?
    6. Is not the stock Market went down with the threat of war and went up when Trump once again, blinked?
    7. Some stories around the advanced knowledge in Pearl Harbor and Vietnam (Gulf of Tomkins)?
    8. Trump hates Obama and try to undo or out shine him? Trump truly wants to distract from impeachment, and help his re-election chances?
    9. In light of history, Israel would never tolerate missiles to rain down on its soldiers like the Americans allowed the other day? 
    10. America is vastly becoming a "Paper Tiger". Or in anther way of saying America's "bark is bigger than her bite"?

    What is it Mr. Reformed? CM

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,626


    Bill,

    Yes, it is plausible.  a) "those injured were transported in nine planes" to Israel, given the two nations relationship, if it were true. To save face, there is no limit America will go through under Mr. Trump to justify his big talk and cowardly lack of action. However, I don't buy, for now, into the above report from America's enemies.

    As for the dead, time and grieving families will be the revealer of truth, if any American soldiers died from the Iranian missile strikes. Trump and the history of America....????? CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,640

    The article reads like the Iranian government's talking points on the effects of its strike... which given the original media source of the material - Iran's Al-Alam News/Fars News Agency - is exactly what the article contains.

    So then, Iranian side of the story is fake news propaganda and US/Israel side of the story is the truth ?

    In the past, we were told by USA media and vasall Western countries' media that the US led coalition was fighting ISIS/ISIL terrorists .. the truth being that the USA (as admitted by high government officials) initially formed and continued to support these terrorists in order to achieve their hegemony goals to destabilize Syria, overthrow its elected president, then continue with Iran. How can it be that the USA led coalition in their war against ISIS basically achieved nothing much with all their best army in the world, best air force, best this and that, to defeat ISIS in quite some time, while a small Russian force in cooperation with Syrian army and militia led by the now murdered Iranian general defeated ISIS In Syria at large and liberated much of the country from the terrorist influence within a rather short period of time? Syrian army and Russia support defeated ISIS In those parts of the Syrian city of Aleppo where they had control while normal life was basically going on in the uneffectede parts of the city, and yet in the Iraqi city of Mossul, the USA led coalition bombed the whole city to shreds with unknown numbers of civilian deaths as "collateral" damage. Look at the two cities and what they look like today in order to quickly find out whether the Western media told the truth or not ... as they reported the exact opposite by drawing a "good picture" of USA led bombing of Mossul and an all "bad picture" of Syrian army liberating Aleppo.

    As for Twitter fake accounts ... could be. could also be the "official excuse" in order to cover up something ...😎

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,033

    @Wolfgang posted:

    So then, Iranian side of the story is fake news propaganda and US/Israel side of the story is the truth ?

    The truthfulness of a claim is not first and foremost a function of the nation(s) that make it - my goodness, Donald Trump is the most prolific liar I've ever heard of, and he's an American! - but rather of the evidence that supports it. In the case of the Iranian claim that nine planes transported injured American troops to Israel, there is, to date, NO evidence to support. As for the American claim that there were no injuries or casualties due to the missile attack, there IS evidence: 1) No one at the base has reported injuries; 2) No one - military, government, or civilian - has reported that he or she saw planes landing in Israel or injured service members being moved; 3) No family of an American service member has reported their receipt of notification of their loved one's injury.

    Given that your response to conspiracy theories is typically by orders of magnitude more welcoming than mine, Wolfgang, (e.g. your conclusion that the Twitter accounts Jack Khoury says are fake could be part of a cover-up) you may well respond to those facts with suggestions that the silence is all part of a larger plot to hide the truth. You're welcome to such a view, but there is simply NO evidence to support it. When that's the case, I usually don't believe the claim.


    As for your commentary about the world's response to ISIS, to my understanding of the facts, there are several inaccuracies in your summary, but ISIS is not the subject of our exchange or this thread, so I am not going to engage you on that issue.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,640

    hmn ... not only rather attractive - in my opinion 😉 - but also seemingly still a little more sound than other 2020 US presidential candidates

    Also calls Hillary Clinton what she is in rather plain words ...

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,640
    edited January 14

    The USA "elephant in a porcelain shop", also going by the designation "US foreign secretary", by the name Mike Pomp-eo, declared the following recently :

    CBS Evening News @CBSEveningNews

    Sec. of State Mike Pompeo: "The goal of our campaign is to deny the regime the resource to conduct its destructive foreign policy. We want Iran to simply behave like a normal nation. We believe the sanctions that we impose today further that strategic objective."



    Is the "simply behave like a normal nation" to assassinate (commonly recognized as murder) a foreign country's official on a diplomatic mission? Or is that the behavior of the indispensable and exceptional nation? Perhaps it is characteristic for a normal nation to impose sanctions on the civil population of a country which causes the country to be unable to purchase medicines, food, etc? A normal country perhaps needs military bases all over the world and start wars against any other country that doesn't quite go along with such "normality"?

    Anyone else have the impression that something is drastically wrong -- and has been for far more than just one administration in office for 3 years -- with the USA regime?

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,626

    America is at it again, via Donald Trump, to start a war. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,842

    Diplomatic mission, oh brother. Your bias is showing again. We get it, you hate America, you hate Israel, but cut the nonsense.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,626

    Yes, I can read. Reformed, a simple "No" would have been sufficed. You're needlessly rude. You need to check yourself. It appears you need to change your name and behavior rightly represent the Christ of the Bible you profess to know and love. Or, do you love Trump more?

    The reason I ask the question because I agree with Wolfgang that America is seeking war to distract to help Trump's re-election, etc. Do better. CM

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,626
    edited January 17

    As a follow up to my point of America saving face and similar to what Wolfgang heard after the Iranian attack, See belowespecially, the bold text:

    US troops were injured in Iran missile attack despite Pentagon initially saying there were no casualties

    (CNN) — Several US service members were injured during last week's Iranian missile attack on Al-Asad airbase in Iraq despite the Pentagon initially saying that no casualties had taken place.

    "While no U.S. service members were killed in the Jan. 8 Iranian attack on Al Asad Air base, several were treated for concussion symptoms from the blast and are still being assessed," the US-led military coalition fighting ISIS in Iraq and Syria said in a statement Thursday. 

    "Out of an abundance of caution, service members were transported from Al Asad Air Base, Iraq to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany for follow-on screening. When deemed fit for duty, the service members are expected to return to Iraq following screening," the statement added.

    A US military official told CNN that 11 service members had been injured in the attack,which was launched in retaliation for the US airstrikes that had killed Iranian Gen. Qasem Soleimani the previous week. Defense One was first to report on the injured service members. 

    Following the attack the Pentagon said that no casualties had resulted from the 16 missiles fired by Iran. The US military defines a casualty as either an injury or fatality involving personnel.

    Asked about the apparent discrepancy, a Defense official told CNN, "That was the commander's assessment at the time. Symptoms emerged days after the fact, and they were treated out of an abundance of caution."

    "We corrected the record today," Jonathan Hoffman, the chief Pentagon spokesman, told CNN. The Office of the Secretary of Defense "learned about these injuries today and directed a statement go out immediately."

    Later on Thursday night, Capt. Bill Urban -- the spokesperson for US Central Command, which oversees troops in the Middle East -- said eight individuals were transported to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany and three were sent to Camp Arifjan in Kuwait for "follow-on screening."

    "As a standard procedure, all personnel in the vicinity of a blast are screened for traumatic brain injury, and if deemed appropriate are transported to a higher level of care," Urban said in a statement. "All soldiers in the immediate blast area were screened and assessed per standard procedure, according to the Defense Department. ... When deemed fit for duty, the service members are expected to return to Iraq following screening."

    Last week, Secretary of Defense Mark Esper had said the initial assessment found only damage to property.

    "The current (Battle Damage Assessment) is, if you will, again, we can get you details, things like tentage, taxiways, the parking lot, a damaged helicopter, things like that; nothing that I would describe as major, at least as I note at this point in time. So that's the state of -- of the attack at this point as we know it. Most importantly, no casualties, no friendly casualties, whether they are US, coalition, contractor, etc.," Esper said.

    The news of the injuries come after Iran fired at two Iraqi bases housing US troops in retaliation for Soleimani's killing in the Iraqi capital of Baghdad. The administration sought to cast its strike on Soleimani as an attempt to de-escalate tensions with Iran, but Tehran has described it as an "act of war" and "state terrorism." Soleimani had been the second most powerful official in the country.

    US officials have offered differing accounts of what they see as the motivations behind Iran's attack. Vice President Mike Pence said last week that the administration believes the strikes "were intended to kill Americans," and Army Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said he believed that the attacks "were intended to cause structural damage, destroy vehicles and equipment and aircraft, and to kill personnel."

    But a growing belief emerged among administration officials last week that Iran had deliberately missed areas populated by Americans. Multiple administration officials told CNN that Iran could have directed its missiles to areas populated by Americans, but intentionally did not. And those officials said Iran may have chosen to send a message rather than take action significant enough to provoke a substantial US military response, a possible signal the Trump administration was looking for a rationale to calm the tensions.

    Iraq did receive a warning that the strike was coming and was able to take "necessary precautions," according to a statement from Iraq's Prime Minister Adil Abdul Mahdi. A US defense official said that Iraq, in turn, warned the United States.

    Iran's UN ambassador said last Friday that the Iraqi bases housing US troops had been primarily selected to demonstrate target accuracy, not to kill Americans, disputing public claims made by top Trump administration officials.

    "We said before we took our military action that we would choose the timing and the place, and we chose the place where the attack against Soleimani was initiated," Ambassador Majid Takht Ravanchi told CNN's John Berman on "New Day" last Friday when asked about Pence's comments. "And we do not consider a high number of casualties as an instrumental element in our calculations."

    This story has been updated with additional information on the attack.

    CNN's Caroline Kelly, Kylie Atwood, Pamela Brown, Kaitlan Collins, Jim Sciutto, Ryan Browne, Barbara Starr and Paul LeBlanc contributed to this report.

    ****************************************************

    What a shame! Lies, cover-ups, endangered the lives of soldiers, like sitting ducks. The US didn't fire one shot. Trump was prepared to sacrifice the men and women on that base for ego and personal gain. All because of distraction from his post-impeachment/upcoming removal from office and to out do Obama. Is this a leader? Both countries, uses people like pawns on a chessboard. Did Trump made an agreement with Iran before hand not to strike back? CM

    PS. Wolfgang you were on to something at the time of your sharing. The above report is still, more or less, the U. S. version of things. The full story is yet to be told. CM


    SOURCE:

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/16/politics/service-members-injured-iran-strike/index.html

  • MitchellMitchell Posts: 598

    If, a spy drone went into the air space of the U.S.A I do not doubt that it would be shot down unless there was some agreement. Likewise if warships entered USA govern waters would the U.S.A not attack in defence of the country?

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,626

    If, a spy drone went into the air space of the U.S.A I do not doubt that it would be shot down unless there was some agreement

    Why would there be an agreement?

    if warships entered USA govern waters would the U.S.A not attack in defence of the country?

    It would warn or capture. Failure to heed, the U.S.A. would attack. In time of war no waiting, just destroy. What's your point? CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,640

    @C_M_ posted

    PS. Wolfgang you were on to something at the time of your sharing. The above report is still, more or less, the U. S. version of things. The full story is yet to be told. CM

    OH, wow .... the quickly as "just another conspiracy theory" of Wolfgang dismissed info turns out to have been a real conspiracy of the US regime, military and mainstream media .... until it no longer could be kept under the rug 😉

    And, as you note, this is still the USA version of things ... or shall we say still lies and conspiracy infected talk of the Pentagon ? Cp. this opening statement of the Pentagon spookes person:

    The Office of the Secretary of Defense "learned about these injuries today and directed a statement go out immediately."

    IF they "just learned about these injuries ...", a few heads in the line of the military command should have been rolling in the meantime ... what kind of "best military in the world" (acccording to the ignorant commander-in-chief) is this??? This Pentagon dude doesn't even realize that his lies only make things worse ... but then, he counts on the typical US American who will believe anything said by an "official person" and reported by the "mainstream media" while dismissing other information that makes more sense as a "conspiracy theory" 🤣

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,033

    @Wolfgang posted:

    OH, wow .... the quickly as "just another conspiracy theory" of Wolfgang dismissed info turns out to have been a real conspiracy of the US regime, military and mainstream media .... until it no longer could be kept under the rug

    I don't think these casualties are the casualties to which you drew our attention, Wolfgang. Remember the 224 injured American soldiers who were taken, not to Germany as these 11 were, but to Tel Aviv, and in nine planes?

    • The problem with first of those stories was the hacked/fake Twitter account of the journalist who allegedly broke the 224 injured story, which made that story, indeed, a conspiracy theory.
    • The problem with the second story was that it sounded like Iranian government talking points, and probably was given that its source was an Iranian news agency.

    There weren't 224 injured; perhaps there were more than 11 - I don't know - but there weren't 224. And there weren't nine planes ferrying injured Americans to Tel Aviv. Those stories were both false. They were and will remain conspiracy theories.

    Why the delay in informing the world about these injuries. I don't know. I can think of acceptable reasons we didn't hear about them til now, and I can think of very unacceptable reasons we didn't hear about them til now. I choose to wait for more information - what are commonly called facts - which undoubtedly WILL come out. Just as they couldn't have hidden nine planes and 224 injuries, they won't be able to hide the truth about what happened.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,626

    Come on, Bill! Wolfgang may have had the number of soldiers, planes and the location of the injured wrong, but American military personnel were wounded during the air strike. Don't you start carrying Trump's water. He said there were "none" or "no" death or injuries. Anybody with a little bit of commonsense knows that is not true. There is detailed truth and there's the big picture truth. Wolfgang met the latter. Truth just lied or was lied too. Shame, shame!

    Why is no one upset about the "'best military in the world'" allowed it soldiers to be sitting ducks and fail to fire one shot at the so-called enemy, Iran? May be this needs to be investigated. Can you imagine the not just the physical wound, but the mental and psychological damage to those soldiers? If nothing else, the hearing loss they will endue for the rest of their lives.

    Trump's action make as much sense as a boxer in the ring, who gets knocked down, waiting to throw the knock-out punch. Cowardliness and incompetence is about as deadly as gasoline and fire. I hope America learn from this. She should never put power, authority, soldiers, and expensive weaponry in the hands of a child. Buy him a video game. America Soldiers are real people. They deserve better leadership. You will never see this failure of leadership in Israel. CM

    PS. I don't hate America. CM

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