Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #3

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” (Rev 20:13)

My Story

What is it like to die?

I first learned about death through a Bible Study. After learning the truth about death and that death is the last enemy that will be conquered, I wanted to learn more. Here’s a few scriptures that may give you some Relief and Comfort.

“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

My Catholic upbringing always taught me that hell was an eternal place of torment and inescapable. This religious teaching never sat well with me. I could never figure out why the God of Love would do such a thing.

Then at my Bible Study, I came across this scripture, “hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” (Rev 20:13) This blew my mind because it connected the dots for me. See, the priests would take money from the parishioners to pray for their dead loved ones, telling us this might get them out of hell. All the while, preaching that hell is ETERNAL. Did they know something I didn’t, I wondered? This was nothing but a ponzi scheme.

Other scriptures that gave me Relief and Comfort is the good news about the Resurrection. “And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15) I was elated to learn this about my loved ones that have passed in death.

Then Jesus Christ told his followers, “Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out” (John 5:28)

Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

«1

Comments

  • Part 1 Stories and Testimonies of Heaven in I Believe in Heaven: Real Stories from the Bible, History and Today has 70 Reader DIgest style condensed stories: e.g. Tamara Laroux Shot Herself, & Went to Hell, Then to Heaven and BACK!! (she said: 'Forgive me, God" then shot a .38 pistol at her heart, but missed her heart by less than a quarter inch). Her description of torment reminds me about the rich man in Luke 16:19-31 LEB =>

    “Now a certain man was rich, and dressed in purple cloth and fine linen, feasting sumptuously every day. And a certain poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, lay at his gate, and was longing to be filled with what fell from the table of the rich man. But even the dogs came and licked his sores. Now it happened that the poor man died, and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s side. And the rich man also died and was buried. And in Hades he lifted up his eyes as he was in torment and saw Abraham from a distance, and Lazarus at his side. And he called out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he could dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am suffering pain in this flame!’

    But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you received your good things during your life, and Lazarus likewise bad things. But now he is comforted here, but you are suffering pain. And in addition to all these things, a great chasm has been established between us and you, so that those who want to cross over from here to you are not able to do so, nor can they cross over from there to us.’

    So he said, ‘Then I ask you, father, that you send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, so that he could warn them, in order that they also should not come to this place of torment!’

    But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; they must listen to them.’

    And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent!’

    But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone rises from the dead.’ ” 

    To me, humans are stubborn. I am powerless to change personal belief in someone else. Every human has free will choice for what to ❤️ love most, which is expressed by actions and words. Only one narrow righteous way results in Holy God's ❤️ Loving presence: now & forever.


    @Brother Rando June 15 I first learned about death through a Bible Study. After learning the truth about death and that death is the last enemy that will be conquered, I wanted to learn more. Here’s a few scriptures that may give you some Relief and Comfort.

    @Brother Rando June 15 “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

    What do dead people being tormented know about Holy God's Righteous ❤️ Love ?

    Contextual meaning of Ecclesiastes 9:5 has larger context(s): e.g. Ecclesiastes 8:9-9:10 LEB =>

    I saw all this as I applied my heart to all the deeds done under the sun: sometimes those in authority harm others. Meanwhile, I saw the wicked being honorably buried, but those who came and went from the holy place were forgotten in the city, even though they had done so. This also is vanity! 

    Because sentence against an evil deed is not carried out quickly, the heart of humans fills up within them to do evil. Although the sinner does evil a hundred times and prolongs his life, yet I also know that it will be good for those who fear אלהים God — because they fear his presence. But it will not go well with the wicked, and they will not prolong their days, like the shadow; because there is no fearing אלהים God’s presence. There is a vanity that happens on earth: sometimes the righteous suffer what the wicked deserve, and sometimes the wicked receive what the righteous deserve. I said, “This also is vanity!” 

    So I recommend enjoyment. For there is nothing better for man under the sun than to eat and to drink and to rejoice. This will accompany him in his toil the days of his life that אלהים God gives to him under the sun. 

    I applied my mind to know wisdom and to understand the business that is done on earth — how neither day nor night one’s eyes see sleep. Then I saw all the work of אלהים God — man is not able to discover the work that is done under the sun. Although man may toil in seeking, he cannot find it. Even if a wise man claims that he knows it, he cannot find it. 

    So all this I laid to my heart, and I concluded that the righteous and the wise, as well as their deeds, are in the hand of אלהים God. So no one knows anything that will come to them, whether it will be love or hatred.

    The same fate comes to everyone: to the righteous and to the wicked, to the good and to the wicked, to the clean and to the unclean, to those who sacrifice and to those who do not sacrifice. 

    As with the good man, so also to the sinner; as with those who swear an oath, so also those who fear oaths. 

    This is the injustice that is done under the sun: the same fate comes to everyone. 

    Also the hearts of humans are full of evil; delusion is in their hearts during their lives, and then they die. 

    Whoever is joined to all the living has hope. After all, even a live dog is better than a dead lion! For the living know that they will die, but the dead do not know anything. They no longer have a reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. What they loved and hated, as well as what they desired, has already perished. They no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. 

    Go — eat your food with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart! For אלהים God already has approved your deeds. Always be clothed in white garments, and never let your head lack oil! Enjoy life with the wife whom you love all the days of your vain life which he gives you under the sun, because this is your lot in life and in the toil with which you toil under the sun. Whatever your hand finds to do — do it with all your might; for in Sheol — where you are going — no one works, plans, knows, or thinks about anything. 

    Humans that have seen/experienced Sheol describe awful torment in repetitive cycles. No one works to please nor Praise Holy אלהים God.

    None of the creatures currently being tormented want to obey the most important Bible command, that starts in Deuteronomy 6:4 LEB with Hebrew words => שמע Hear, ישראל Israel, יהוה Yahweh our אלהינו God, יהוה Yahweh is אחד unique.

    אלהינו = construct "of" plural אלהים God (minimum of three) with plural suffix "we"

    What is plural in one unique אלהים God ?

    Hebrew word שמע sh'MA means Hear & Obey. My desire is hearing & obeying Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God to do His Will in His Way (sin nature in my flesh is a constant spiritual war inside me that fights my goal to Be Holy as God is Holy).


    @Brother Rando June 15 My Catholic upbringing always taught me that hell was an eternal place of torment and inescapable. This religious teaching never sat well with me. I could never figure out why the God of Love would do such a thing.

    What is the relationship of Holy, Love, and Sin ?

    By the way, New World Translation (NWT) has '..., because God is love.' in 1 John 4:8 for '..., ὅτι ὁ θεὸς ἀγάπη ἐστίν.' '..., because The God love being (is)' along with '.... God is love, ...' in 1 John 4:16 for '.... Ὁ θεὸς ἀγάπη ἐστίν, ...' 'The God love being (is)' that expresses quality of love being continous (with secondary aspect of present time). All of love quality is being The God while The God is more than love: e.g. Holy, Righteous, ....

    John 1:1c in NWT has '..., the Word was a god.' for '..., καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος' '..., also God being (was) The Word'. If NWT was consistent, then 1 John 4:8 and 1 John 4:16 would have 'God is a love'. The three phrases have the subject with the definite article, a form of the verb εἰμί, and anarthrous quality expression. If the quality word had the definiite artilce, then both definite words around the verb εἰμί would be completely equal & interchangeable.


    @Brother Rando June 15 Then at my Bible Study, I came across this scripture, “hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” (Rev 20:13) This blew my mind because it connected the dots for me. See, the priests would take money from the parishioners to pray for their dead loved ones, telling us this might get them out of hell. All the while, preaching that hell is ETERNAL. Did they know something I didn’t, I wondered? This was nothing but a ponzi scheme.

    @Brother Rando June 15 Other scriptures that gave me Relief and Comfort is the good news about the Resurrection. “And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15) I was elated to learn this about my loved ones that have passed in death.

    Internet search for catholic indulgences found Catholic Answers encyclopedia entry: Indulgences that has a Purgatory link where both articles remind me of various JW.org articles posted for CD discussion: Holy God's eternal truth twisted with falsehood reasoning.

    Revelation 20:11-15 LEB =>

    And I saw a great white throne and the one who was seated on it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled, and a place was not found for them. And I saw the dead — the great and the small — standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and each one was judged according to their deeds. And Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death — the lake of fire. And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. 

    Every human has free will choice what to ❤️ love most, which is proven by deeds (actions & words). I am powerless to change personal choice what to ❤️ love most (& resultant deeds) in someone else. Thankfully the Ruach HaKodesh (Breath The Holy) convicts individuals about sin choices, yet each person has free will choice how to respond.


    @Brother Rando June 15 Then Jesus Christ told his followers, “Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out” (John 5:28)

    Jesus spoke many words in John 5:1-47 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: אלהים as God) =>

    After these things there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool called in Aramaic Bethzatha, which has five porticoes. In these were lying a large number of those who were sick, blind, lame, paralyzed. And a certain man was there who had been thirty-eight years in his sickness. Jesus, when he saw this one lying there and knew that he had been sick a long time already, said to him, “Do you want to become well?

    The one who was sick answered him, “Sir, I do not have anyone that, whenever the water is stirred up, could put me into the pool. But while I am coming, another goes down before me.”

    Jesus said to him, “Get up! Pick up your mat and walk!

    And immediately the man became well and picked up his mat and began to walk. (Now it was the Sabbath on that day.) 

    So the Jews were saying to the one who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not permitted for you to pick up the mat!”

    But he answered them, “The one who made me well — that one said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk!’ ”

    So they asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Pick up your mat and walk?’ ”

    But the one who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn while a crowd was in the place. 

    After these things Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “Look, you have become well! Sin no longer, lest something worse happen to you.”

    The man went and reported to the Jews that Jesus was the one who made him well. And on account of this the Jews began to persecute Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath.

    But he answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

    So on account of this the Jews were seeking even more to kill him, because he not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling אלהים God his own Father, thus making himself equal with אלהים God. 

    So Jesus answered and said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, the Son can do nothing from himself except what he sees the Father doing. For whatever that one does, these things also the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything that he himself is doing. And greater works than these he will show him, so that you will be astonished. For just as the Father raises the dead and makes them alive, thus also the Son makes alive whomever he wishes. For the Father does not judge anyone, but he has given all judgment to the Son, in order that all people will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life

    Truly, truly I say to you, that an hour is coming — and now is here — when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and the ones who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, thus also he has granted to the Son to have life in himself. And he has granted him authority to carry out judgment, because he is the Son of Man

    Do not be astonished at this, because an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear his voice and they will come out — those who have done good things to a resurrection of life, but those who have practiced evil things to a resurrection of judgment. I am able to do nothing from myself. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will, but the will of the one who sent me. 

    If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. There is another who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony which he testifies about me is true. You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. (And I do not receive testimony from people, but I say these things in order that you may be saved.) That one was the lamp which was burning and shining, and you wanted to rejoice for an hour in his light. 

    But I have a testimony greater than John’s, for the works which the Father has given to me that I should complete them — the very works which I am doing — these testify about me, that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me, that one has testified about me. You have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his form. And you do not have his word residing in yourselves, because the one whom that one sent, in this one you do not believe. You search the scriptures because you think that you have eternal life in them, and it is these that testify about me. And you are not willing to come to me so that you may have life. 

    I do not accept glory from people, but I know you, that you do not have the love of אלהים God in yourselves. I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me. If another should come in his own name, you would accept that one! How are you able to believe, if you accept glory from one another, and do not seek the glory which is from the only אלהים God? Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father! The one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have put your hope! For if you had believed Moses, you would believe me, for that one wrote about me. But if you do not believe that one’s writings, how will you believe my words?” 

    If יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus (not Michael the archangel) asked @Brother RandoDo you want to become well?”, what would your answer be ?

    To me, every human that believes יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus is NOT אלהים God, dishonors both יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus and The Father (so that individual's name is NOT in Holy אלהים God's book of life).

    My faith believes יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus is a voice in one unique Holy אלהים God. My belief in יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus as יהוה Lord אלהים God is consistent with my belief in The Father as יהוה Lord אלהים God along with my belief in Ruach HaKodesk (Breath The Holy) as יהוה Lord אלהים God. I'm learning to enjoy the immense Holy presence of יהוה Lord אלהים God with my desire to become Holy as יהוה Lord אלהים God is Holy. I prefer using voice to describe a portion of one unique plural יהוה Lord אלהים God because 'person' has a bodily connotation. Only one Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God voice has humbly been clothed in a human body.

    FWIW: I identify myself as a follower of "The Way" because יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus said: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. ...". Various CD comments expressing JW.org (Watchtower Society) "trinitarian" beliefs leave me certain that JW.org "trinitarian" descriptions do not describe my faith belief in a plural unified Holy אלהים God.


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321

    For if you had believed אלהים Moses, you would believe me, for that one wrote about me. But if you do not believe that one’s writings, how will you believe my words?

    • Behold, I send אלהים an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the Way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him and listen to his voice; do not contend against him, lest he will not forgive your sins, because my Name is upon him.

    Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

    23:20-33 It is here promised that they should be guided and kept in their way through the wilderness to the land of promise, Behold, I send an angel before thee, mine angel. The precept joined with this promise is, that they be obedient to this angel whom God would send before them. Christ is the Angel of Jehovah; this is plainly taught by St. Paul, 1Co 10:9. They should have a comfortable settlement in the land of Canaan. How reasonable are the conditions of this promise; that they should serve the only true God; not the gods of the nations, which are no gods at all. How rich are the particulars of this promise! The comfort of their food, the continuance of their health, the increase of their wealth, the prolonging their lives to old age. Thus hath godliness the promise of the life that now is. It is promised that they should subdue their enemies. Hosts of hornets made way for the hosts of Israel; such mean creatures can God use for chastising his people's enemies. In real kindness to the church, its enemies are subdued by little and little; thus we are kept on our guard, and in continual dependence on God. Corruptions are driven out of the hearts of God's people, not all at once, but by little and little. The precept with this promise is, that they should not make friendship with idolaters. Those that would keep from bad courses, must keep from bad company. It is dangerous to live in a bad neighbourhood; others' sins will be our snares. Our greatest danger is from those who would make us sin against God.

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • @Brother Rando July 2 For if you had believed אלהים Moses, you would believe me, for that one wrote about me. But if you do not believe that one’s writings, how will you believe my words?

    Exodus 7:1-7 LEB (with two Hebrew words: יהוה and אלהים) =>

    And Yahweh יהוה said to Moses, “See, I have made you as a god אלהים to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother will be your prophet. You will speak all that I will command you, and Aaron your brother will speak to Pharaoh, and he will release the Israelites from his land. And I myself will harden the heart of Pharaoh, and I will make my signs and my wonders numerous in the land of Egypt. And Pharaoh will not listen to you, and I will put my hand into Egypt and bring out my divisions, my people, the Israelites, from the land of Egypt with great punishments. And the Egyptians will know that I am Yahweh יהוה when I stretch out my hand over Egypt and bring the Israelites out from their midst.” 

    And Moses and Aaron did it; as Yahweh יהוה commanded them, so they did. (And Moses was eighty years old, and Aaron was eighty-three years old when they spoke to Pharaoh.) 

    Jewish students of Holy Scriptures knew Moses was a god אלהים to Pharaoh, who drowned with his army as described in Exodus 14:1-31 LEB (with two Hebrew words: יהוה and אלהים) =>

    And Yahweh יהוה spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the Israelites so that they turn and encamp before Pi-hahiroth, between Migdol and the sea; before Baal Zephon, which is opposite it, you will camp by the sea. And Pharaoh will say of the Israelites, ‘They are wandering around in the land. The desert has closed in on them.’ And I will harden the heart of Pharaoh, and he will chase after them, and I will be glorified through Pharaoh and through all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am Yahweh יהוה.” And they did so. 

    And it was told to the king of Egypt that the people fled, and the heart of Pharaoh was changed and that of his servants toward the people, and they said, “What is this we have done, that we have released Israel from serving us!” And he harnessed his chariot and took with him his people. And he took six hundred select chariots and all the chariots of Egypt and officers over all of them. And Yahweh יהוה hardened the heart of Pharaoh the king of Egypt, and he chased after the Israelites. (Now the Israelites were going out boldly.) And the Egyptians chased after them, and they overtook them encamped at the sea — all the horses of the chariots of Pharaoh and his charioteers and his army — at Pi-hahiroth before Baal Zephon. 

    And Pharaoh approached, and the Israelites lifted their eyes, and there were the Egyptians traveling after them! And they were very afraid, and the Israelites cried out to Yahweh יהוה. And they said to Moses, “Because there are no graves in Egypt? Is that why you have taken us to die in the desert? What is this you have done to us by bringing us out from Egypt! Isn’t this the word we spoke to you in Egypt, saying, ‘Leave us alone so that we can serve Egypt!’ because serving Egypt is better for us than our dying in the desert.” And Moses said to the people, “You must not be afraid. Stand still and see the salvation of Yahweh יהוה, which he will accomplish for you today, because the Egyptians whom you see today you will see never again. Yahweh יהוה will fight for you, and you must be quiet.” 

    And Yahweh יהוה said to Moses, “Why do you cry out to me? Speak to the Israelites so that they set out. And you, lift up your staff and stretch out your hand over the sea and divide it so that the Israelites can go in the middle of the sea on the dry land. And as for me, look, I am about to harden the heart of the Egyptians so that they come after them, and I will display my glory through Pharaoh and through all of his army, through his chariots and through his charioteers. And the Egyptians will know that I am Yahweh יהוה when I display my glory through Pharaoh, through his chariots, and through his charioteers.” 

    And the angel of God אלהים who was going before the camp of Israel set out and went behind them. And the column of cloud set out ahead of them, and it stood still behind them, so that it came between the camp of Egypt and the camp of Israel. And it was a dark cloud, but it gave light to the night, so that neither approached the other all night. 

    And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and Yahweh יהוה moved the sea with a strong east wind all night, and he made the sea become dry ground, and the waters were divided. And the Israelites entered the middle of the sea on the dry land. The waters were a wall for them on their right and on their left.

    And the Egyptians gave chase and entered after them — all the horses of Pharaoh, his chariots, and his charioteers — into the middle of the sea. And during the morning watch, Yahweh יהוה looked down to the Egyptian camp from in the column of fire and cloud, and he threw the Egyptian camp into a panic. And he removed the wheels of their chariots so that they drove them with difficulty, and the Egyptians said, “We must flee away from Israel because Yahweh יהוה is fighting for them against Egypt.” 

    And Yahweh יהוה said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand over the sea, and let the waters return over the Egyptians, over their chariots, and over their charioteers.”

    And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and the sea returned at daybreak to its normal level, and the Egyptians were fleeing because of it, and Yahweh יהוה swept the Egyptians into the middle of the sea. And the waters returned and covered the chariots and the charioteers — all the army of Pharaoh coming after them into the sea. Not even one survived among them.

    But the Israelites walked on the dry land in the middle of the sea. The waters were a wall for them on their right and on their left. And Yahweh יהוה saved Israel on that day from the hand of Egypt, and Israel saw the Egyptians dead on the shore of the sea. And Israel saw the great hand that Yahweh יהוה displayed against Egypt, and the people feared Yahweh יהוה, and they believed in Yahweh יהוה and in Moses his servant. 

    Moses was a human Jewish servant of Yahweh יהוה who wrote about Jewish Rabbi יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus: e.g. offspring of a woman (human baby with non-human father), Melchizedek (King Righteous), the scepter and ruler's staff in Y'hudah.


    @Brother Rando July 2 Behold, I send אלהים an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the Way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him and listen to his voice; do not contend against him, lest he will not forgive your sins, because my Name is upon him.

    Observe אלהים does NOT appear in the Hebrew text of Exodus 23:20 => הנה אנכי שלח מלאך לפניך לשמרך בדרך ולהביאך אל-המקום אשר הכנתי 

    Also אלהים does NOT appear in the Hebrew text of Exodus 23:21 =>  השמר מפניו ושמע בקלו אל-תמר בו כי לא ישא לפשעכם כי שמי בקרבו

    And יהוה said to Moses (Exodus 20:22) ... Exodus 23:20-23 NWT online =>

    20  “I am sending an angel ahead of you+ to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared.+ 21  Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions,+ because my name is in him. 22  However, if you strictly obey his voice and do all that I say, I will show hostility to your enemies and oppose those who oppose you. 23  For my angel will go ahead of you and will bring you to the Amʹor·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hiʹvites, and the Jebʹu·sites, and I will annihilate them.

    When were the Amʹor·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hiʹvites, and the Jebʹu·sites annihilated ?

    What is the modern relevance of the angel sent by יהוה to guard Jewish people on the way from Egypt to the promised land thousands of years ago ?


    Logos Bible Study Books Search of Type:Commentary for (Christ OR Jehovah OR Yahweh) IN milestone:bible:ex23.20-33 found results in 81 commentaries (in my Logos library), which included Thomas Scott's condensation published in 1997 =>

    Verses 20–33

    It is here promised that they should be guided and kept in their way through the wilderness to the land of promise, Behold, I send an angel before thee, mine angel. The precept joined with this promise is, that they be obedient to this angel whom God would send before them. Christ is the Angel of Jehovah; this is plainly taught by St. Paul, 1Co 10:9. They should have a comfortable settlement in the land of Canaan. How reasonable are the conditions of this promise; that they should serve the only true God; not the gods of the nations, which are no gods at all. How rich are the particulars of this promise! The comfort of their food, the continuance of their health, the increase of their wealth, the prolonging their lives to old age. Thus hath godliness the promise of the life that now is. It is promised that they should subdue their enemies. Hosts of hornets made way for the hosts of Israel; such mean creatures can God use for chastising his people’s enemies. In real kindness to the church, its enemies are subdued by little and little; thus we are kept on our guard, and in continual dependence on God. Corruptions are driven out of the hearts of God’s people, not all at once, but by little and little. The precept with this promise is, that they should not make friendship with idolaters. Those that would keep from bad courses, must keep from bad company. It is dangerous to live in a bad neighbourhood; others’ sins will be our snares. Our greatest danger is from those who would make us sin against God. 


     Matthew Henry and Thomas Scott, Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, 1997), Ex 23:20.

    Matthew Henry's complete comments on Exodus 23:20-33 were initially published in 1728 =>

    Verses 20–33

    Three gracious promises are here made to Israel, to engage them to their duty and encourage them in it; and each of the promises has some needful precepts and cautions joined to it.

    I. It is here promised that they should be guided and kept in their way through the wilderness to the land of promise: Behold, I send an angel before thee (v. 20), my angel (v. 23), a created angel, say some, a minister of God’s providence, employed in conducting and protecting the camp of Israel; that it might appear that God took a particular care of them, he appointed one of his chief servants to make it his business to attend them, and see that they wanted for nothing. Others suppose it to be the Son of God, the angel of the covenant; for the Israelites in the wilderness are said to tempt Christ; and we may as well suppose him God’s messenger, and the church’s Redeemer, before his incarnation, as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. And we may the rather think he was pleased to undertake the deliverance and guidance of Israel because they were typical of his great undertaking. It is promised that this blessed angel should keep them in the way, though it lay through a wilderness first, and afterwards through their enemies’ country; thus God’s spiritual Israel shall be kept through the wilderness of this earth, and from the insults of the gates of hell. It is also promised that he should bring them into the place which God had not only designed but prepared for them: and thus Christ has prepared a place for his followers, and will preserve them to it, for he is faithful to him that appointed him. The precept joined with this promise is that they be observant of, and obedient to, this angel whom God would send before them (v. 21): “Beware of him, and obey his voice in every thing; provoke him not in any thing, for it is at your peril if you do, he will visit your iniquity.” Note, 1. Christ is the author of salvation to those only that obey him. The word of command is Hear you him, Mt. 17:5. Observe what he hath commanded, Mt. 28:20. 2. Our necessary dependence upon the divine power and goodness should awe us into obedience. We do well to take heed of provoking our protector and benefactor, because if our defence depart from us, and the streams of his goodness be cut off, we are undone. Therefore, “Beware of him, and carry it towards him with all possible reverence and caution. Fear the Lord, and his goodness.” 3. Christ will be faithful to those who are faithful to him, and will espouse their cause who adhere to his: I will be an adversary to thine adversaries, v. 22. The league shall be offensive and defensive, like that with Abraham, I will bless him that blesseth thee, and curse him that curseth thee. Thus is God pleased to twist his interests and friendships with his people’s.

    II. It is promised that they should have a comfortable settlement in the land of Canaan, which they hoped now (though it proved otherwise) within a few months to be in the possession of, v. 24–26. Observe, 1. How reasonable the conditions of this promise are—only that they should serve their own God, who was indeed the only true God, and not the gods of the nations, which were no gods at all, and which they had no reason at all to have any respect for. They must not only not worship their gods, but they must utterly overthrow them, in token of their great abhorrence of idolatry, their resolution never to worship idols themselves, and their care to prevent any other from worshipping them; as the converted conjurors burnt their books, Acts 19:19. 2. How rich the particulars of this promise are. (1.) The comfort of their food. He shall bless thy bread and thy water; and God’s blessing will make bread and water more refreshing and nourishing than a feast of fat things and wines on the lees without that blessing. (2.) The continuance of their health: “I will take sickness away, either prevent it or remove it. Thy land shall not be visited with epidemical diseases, which are very dreadful, and sometimes have laid countries waste.” (3.) The increase of their wealth. Their cattle should not be barren, nor cast their young, which is mentioned as an instance of prosperity, Job 21:10. (4.) The prolonging of their lives to old age: “The number of thy days I will fulfil, and they shall not be cut off in the midst by untimely deaths.” Thus hath godliness the promise of the life that now is.

    III. It is promised that they should conquer and subdue their enemies, the present occupants of the land of Canaan, who must be driven out to make room for them. This God would do, 1. Effectually by his power (v. 17, 18); not so much by the sword and bow of Israel as by the terrors which he would strike into the Canaanites. Though they were so obstinate as not to be willing to submit to Israel, resign their country, and retire elsewhere, which they might have done, yet they were so dispirited that they were not able to stand before them. This completed their ruin; such power had the devil in them that they would resist, but such power had God over them that they could not. I will send my fear before thee; and those that fear will soon flee. Hosts of hornets made way for the hosts of Israel; such mean creatures can God make use of for the chastising of his people’s enemies, as in the plagues of Egypt. When God pleases, hornets can drive out Canaanites, as well as lions could, Jos. 24:12. 2. He would do it gradually, in wisdom (v. 29, 30), not all at once, but by little and little. As the Canaanites had kept possession till Israel had grown into a people, so there should still be some remains of them till Israel should grow so numerous as to replenish the whole. Note, The wisdom of God is to be observed in the gradual advances of the church’s interests. It is in real kindness to the church that its enemies are subdued by little and little; for thus we are kept upon our guard, and in a continual dependence upon God. Corruptions are thus driven out of the hearts of God’s people; not all at once, but by little and little; the old man is crucified, and therefore dies slowly. God, in his providence, often delays mercies, because we are not ready for them. Canaan has room enough to receive Israel, but Israel is not numerous enough to occupy Canaan. We are not straitened in God; if we are straitened, it is in ourselves. The land of Canaan is promised them (v. 31) in its utmost extent, which yet they were not possessed of till the days of David; and by their sins they soon lost possession. The precept annexed to this promise is that they should not make any friendship, nor have any familiarity, with idolaters, v. 32, 33. Idolaters must not so much as sojourn in their land, unless they renounced their idolatry. Thus they must avoid the reproach of intimacy with the worshippers of false gods and the danger of being drawn to worship with them. By familiar converse with idolaters, their dread and detestation of the sin would wear off; they would think it no harm, in compliment to their friends, to pay some respect to their gods, and so by degrees would be drawn into the fatal snare. Note, Those that would be kept from bad courses must keep from bad company; it is dangerous living in a bad neighbourhood; others’ sins will be our snares, if we look not well to ourselves. We must always look upon our greatest danger to be from those that would cause us to sin against God. Whatever friendship is pretended, that is really our worst enemy that draws us from our duty.


     Matthew Henry, Matthew Henry’s Commentary on the Whole Bible: Complete and Unabridged in One Volume (Peabody: Hendrickson, 1994), 130.

    Jewish Publication Society comment about Exodus 23:20 published in 1991 =>

    20. an angel On angels in the Bible, see Comment to 3:2. Classical Jewish commentators are divided on whether a heavenly or human messenger is here intended by Hebrew malʾakh.

    The phrase may simply be an idiom expressing the activity of Divine Providence, as in Genesis 24:7.

    the place that I have made ready Apparently, a reference to the land of Canaan, in which the Israelites will take possession of “great and flourishing cities … houses full of all good things … hewn cisterns … vineyards and olive groves,” in the words of Deuteronomy 6:10–11. Since Hebrew makom, “place,” frequently means “sacred space,” it is possible that this unusual designation of the land carries with it the idea of the Holy Land.

     Nahum M. Sarna, Exodus, The JPS Torah Commentary (Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society, 1991), 147–148.

    Humanly observed various scholarly opinions about angel meaning in Exodus 23:20-23. To me, Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God can forgive sins against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God that is different than the righteous angel sent by Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God to journey with the Israelites, who could NOT forgive sins against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God (while being a messenger for Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God).


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321

    Trying to change scripture won't work.

    •  And the angel of Yahweh went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, “I brought you up from Egypt, and I brought you to the land that I had promised to your ancestors. I said, ‘I will never break my covenant with you.
    • Who brings the Nation of Israel out of Egypt into the land and makes s covenant with them?

    Notice all the pronouns used? Only singular in reference to the angel of Yahweh, which is God's Representative as the Word of God. Angels are what? MESSENGERS.


    Logos reference states Judges 2:1 See Exod 3:2 and note. Angels in the Bible Table The place Israel stacked 12 stones taken from the Jordan River after crossing it to enter Canaan (Josh 4:20). Gilgal was also where Israel conducted the ceremony of circumcision for the males of the new generation and observed the first Passover in the land (Josh 5). As Joshua’s headquarters, Gilgal may have had a symbolic status as the center of Yahweh’s activity—so the angel comes from there to judge Israel (Josh 9:6; 10:6–9, 15, 43; 14:6).

    John D. Barry et al., Faithlife Study Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012, 2016), Jdg 2:1.

    • See that? The Angel judges, which forgives or counts sins......

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • @Brother Rando July 3 Trying to change scripture won't work.

    Humanly wonder if @Brother Rando is telling @Brother Rando that human Watchtower Society trying to change scripture won't work.

    New World Translation (NWT) has '..., because God is love.' in 1 John 4:8 for '..., ὅτι ὁ θεὸς ἀγάπη ἐστίν.' '..., because The God love being (is)' along with '.... God is love, ...' in 1 John 4:16 for '.... Ὁ θεὸς ἀγάπη ἐστίν, ...' 'The God love being (is)' that expresses quality of love being continous (with secondary aspect of present time). All of love quality is being The God while The God is more than love: e.g. Holy, Righteous, ....

    John 1:1c in NWT has '..., the Word was a god.' for '..., καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος' '..., also God being (was) The Word'. If NWT was consistent, then 1 John 4:8 and 1 John 4:16 would have 'God is a love'. The three phrases have the subject with the definite article, a form of the verb εἰμί, and anarthrous quality expression. If the quality word had the definite artilce, then both definite words around the verb εἰμί would be completely equal & interchangeable.

    Isaiah 44:6 in NWT has " This is what Jehovah says, 'The King of Israel and his Repurchaser, Jehovah of armies: 'I am the first and I am the last. 'There is no God but me. "

    How can human Watchtower Society's NWT John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." be truthfully consistent with scripture ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6 NWT 'There is no God but me.)


    @Brother Rando July 3 * And the angel of Yahweh went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, “brought you up from Egypt, and I brought you to the land that had promised to your ancestors. said, ‘will never break my covenant with you.

    Thankfully Logos Bible Study software can search Bible text: e.g. Gilgal WITHIN 3 WORDS Bokim that finds Judges 2:1 in 29 Bibles (out of 1,077 Bibles in my Logos digital library), which includes Judges 2:1 LEB, which was copied & pasted by @Brother Rando without scripture reference.


    @Brother Rando July 3 * Who brings the Nation of Israel out of Egypt into the land and makes s covenant with them?

    Puzzled by present tense "brings" after past tense "brought" in scripture translation. Original language scrolls do not have chapter and verse numbering so had to know story context: e.g. Judges 1:16-2:15 LEB =>

    The descendants of the Kenite, Moses’ father-in-law, went up with the descendants of Judah from the city of palms into the wilderness of Judah, which is in the Negev near Arad. And they went and settled with the people. And Judah went with his brother Simeon, and they defeated the Canaanites inhabiting Zephath; they utterly destroyed it, so he called the name of the city Hormah. Judah captured Gaza and its territory, Ashkelon and its territory, and Ekron and its territory. And יהוה Yahweh was with Judah, and he took possession of the hill country, but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the plain because they had chariots of iron. They gave Hebron to Caleb just as Moses said, and he drove out the three sons of Anak from there. But the descendants of Benjamin did not drive out the Jebusites who lived in Jerusalem, so the Jebusites have lived among the descendants of Benjamin in Jerusalem to this day. Likewise, the house of Joseph went up against Bethel, and יהוה Yahweh was with them. And the house of Joseph spied out Bethel (the former name of the city was Luz). And when the spies saw a man leaving the city, they said to him, “Please show us the entrance of the city, and we will deal kindly with you.” So he showed them the entrance of the city, and they struck the city with the edge of the sword, but they let go the man and all his family. And the man went to the land of the Hittites, and he built a city and named it Luz; this is its name to this day. Manasseh did not drive out Beth-Sean and its towns, or Taanach and its towns, or the inhabitants of Dor and its towns, or the inhabitants of Ibleam and its towns, or the inhabitants of Megiddo and its towns; the Canaanites were determined to live in this land. And it happened, when Israel grew strong, they put the Canaanites to forced labor, but they never totally drove them out. Ephraim did not drive out the Canaanites living in Gezer, so the Canaanites lived in their midst in Gezer. Zebulun did not drive out the inhabitants of Kitron or Nahalol, so the Canaanites lived in their midst and became subjected to forced labor. Asher did not drive out the inhabitants of Acco, Sidon, Ahlab, Aczib, Helbah, Aphik, or Rehob, so the Asherites lived in the midst of the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land, for they did not drive them out. Naphtali did not drive out the inhabitants of Beth Shemesh or Beth-anath, but lived in the midst of the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land; the inhabitants of Beth Shemesh and Beth-anath became forced labor for them. The Amorites pressed the descendants of Dan to the hill country, and they did not allow them to come down to the plain; the Amorites were determined to live in Har-heres, in Aijalon, and in Shaalbim, but the hand of the house of Joseph was heavy on them, and they became subjected to forced labor. The border of the Amorites ran from the ascent of Akrabbim from Sela and upward. And the angel of יהוה Yahweh went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, “I brought you up from Egypt, and I brought you to the land that I had promised to your ancestors. I said, ‘I will never break my covenant with you. And as for you, do not make a covenant with the inhabitants of this land; break down their altars.’ But you did not listen to my voice. Why would you do such a thing? Now I say, I will not drive them out from before you; they will become as thorns for you, and their gods will be a trap for you.” And as the angel of יהוה Yahweh spoke these words to all the Israelites, the people wept bitterly. And they called the name of this place Bokim, and there they sacrificed to יהוה Yahweh. And Joshua sent the people away, and the Israelites went each to their own inheritance to take possession of the land. And the people served יהוה Yahweh all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua, who saw all the great work יהוה Yahweh had done for Israel. And Joshua son of Nun, servant of יהוה Yahweh, died at the age of one hundred and ten years. They buried him within the border of his inheritance in Timnah-heres, in the hill country of Ephraim north of Mount Gaash. Moreover, that entire generation was gathered to their ancestors, and another generation grew up after them who did not know יהוה Yahweh or the work he had done for Israel. The Israelites did evil in the eyes of יהוה Yahweh, and they served the Baals. They abandoned יהוה Yahweh the God of their ancestors, who brought them out from the land of Egypt. They followed other gods from the gods of the people who were around them; and they bowed down to them, and they provoked the anger of יהוה Yahweh. They abandoned יהוה Yahweh, and they served Baal and the Ashtaroth. So the anger of יהוה Yahweh was kindled against Israel, and he gave them into the hand of plunderers; and they plundered them, and he sold them into the hand of their enemies from all sides. They were unable to withstand their enemies any longer. Whenever they went out, the hand of יהוה Yahweh was against them to harm them, just as יהוה Yahweh warned, and just as יהוה Yahweh had sworn to them. And they were very distressed.

    The name Bokim means "crying". Who wept bitterly at Bokim ? Why did people not obey God's voice ?


    @Brother Rando July 3 Notice all the pronouns used? Only singular in reference to the angel of Yahweh, which is God's Representative as the Word of God. Angels are what? MESSENGERS.

    What pronouns are in Genesis 1:26-31 LEB =>

    And אלהים God said, “Let us make humankind in our image and according to our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of heaven, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every moving thing that moves upon the earth.” So אלהים God created humankind in his image, in the likeness of אלהים God he created him, male and female he created them. And אלהים God blessed them, and אלהים God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of heaven, and over every animal that moves upon the earth.” 

    And אלהים God said, “Look — I am giving to you every plant that bears seed which is on the face of the whole earth, and every kind of tree that bears fruit. They shall be yours as food.” And to every kind of animal of the earth and to every bird of heaven, and to everything that moves upon the earth in which there is life I am giving every green plant as food.” And it was so. And God saw everything that he had made and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning, a sixth day. 

    What is plural in one unique אלהים God, who used plural pronouns us & our along with singular pronoun I to describe one unique אלהים God ?

    What pronouns are in Matthew 11:25-30 LEB =>

    At that time Jesus answered and said, “I praise you, Father, יהוה Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to young children. Yes, Father, for to do so was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son wants to reveal him. Come to me, all of you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke on you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to carry and my burden is light.” 

    What does Jesus truly know about the Father, יהוה Lord of heaven and earth ?

    Who shares יהוה name as declared by יהוה in  Jeremiah 23:5-6 LEB => “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’

    Hebrew noun (construct spelling => of) for righteousness has pronoun, suffixed, 1st person, plural whose literal translation is: 'יהוה Yahweh righteousness of We'


    Books Search in Logos Bible Study for milestone:bible:jg2.1 finds 418 resources (217 Bibles) in my Logos library, which includes the Faithlife Study Bible =>

    2:1 the angel of Yahweh See Exod 3:2 and note.

    Angels in the Bible Table

    from Gilgal The place Israel stacked 12 stones taken from the Jordan River after crossing it to enter Canaan (Josh 4:20). Gilgal was also where Israel conducted the ceremony of circumcision for the males of the new generation and observed the first Passover in the land (Josh 5). As Joshua’s headquarters, Gilgal may have had a symbolic status as the center of Yahweh’s activity—so the angel comes from there to judge Israel (Josh 9:6; 10:6–9, 15, 43; 14:6).

    I brought you up from Egypt See Exod 12–14.

    I had promised to your ancestors See Gen 12:1–3; 15:1–6; 28:13; 35:12.


     John D. Barry et al., Faithlife Study Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012, 2016), Jdg 2:1.

    Noticed @Brother Rando July 3 copy and paste changed formatting along with leaving out some human comments about Judges 2:1

    Logos reference states Judges 2:1 See Exod 3:2 and note. Angels in the Bible Table The place Israel stacked 12 stones taken from the Jordan River after crossing it to enter Canaan (Josh 4:20). Gilgal was also where Israel conducted the ceremony of circumcision for the males of the new generation and observed the first Passover in the land (Josh 5). As Joshua’s headquarters, Gilgal may have had a symbolic status as the center of Yahweh’s activity—so the angel comes from there to judge Israel (Josh 9:610:6–9154314:6).

    John D. Barry et al., Faithlife Study Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012, 2016), Jdg 2:1.

    Bible Search for angel IN milestone:bible:jsh9-14 found no results in 1,077 Bibles (so "angel" references in Joshua chapters 9 through 14 are human interpretation).

    @Brother Rando July 3 See that? The Angel judges, which forgives or counts sins.....

    Human commentary "so the angel comes from there to judge Israel (Josh 9:610:6–9154314:6)" in the Faithlife Study Bible gave me reason to report typo for review/revision because the listed Bible references have Gilgal location, but they do not have angel nor judge.

    Bible Search for (angel NEAR judge) IN milestone:bible:jsh9-14 found no results in my Logos library. Bible Search for (angel NEAR judge) IN milestone:bible:ge-ml found two results:

    • New American Bible 2 Samuel 19:28 => But he slandered your servant before my lord the king. But my lord the king is like an angel of God. Do what you judge best.
    • Dead Sea Scrolls Bible 2 Samuel 14:17 => Then the woman concluded, “Oh, let the word of my lord the king be a comfort. For as an angel of God, so is my lord the king to judge good and bad. May • • • • your God be with you.”


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321
    edited July 2023

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus wrote Isaiah 44:6 in NWT has " This is what Jehovah says, 'The King of Israel and his Repurchaser, Jehovah of armies: 'I am the first and I am the last. 'There is no God but me. "

    @Brother Rando

    Correct. The LEB also has written "Thus says Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, Yahweh of hosts: “I am the first, and I am the last, and there is no god besides me."

    So we see two scriptures that have Huge Ratifications with one word being de-emphasized in the LEB.

    • In the NWT, Jehovah is referred to God
    • However in the LEB, Yahweh is referred to god

    Notice the scripture does not say Jesus or Yeshua. Therefore, trying to change scripture to state Jesus or Yeshua is God is a deceptive error. How can the human LEB John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." be truthfully consistent with scripture ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6 LEB) Here we see Word but the Word is interchangeable with Messenger since Angels are Messengers.

    • "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."
    • "In the beginning was the Messenger, and the Messenger was with God, and the Messenger was a god."

    When God wanted to send His Word, God sent his Messenger. Not only could the Messenger forgive sins, but made a covenant with Israel and Judged Israel and left them as dust in the Wilderness for tempting him.

    Logos reference states:

     Judges 2:1 See Exod 3:2 and note. Angels in the Bible Table The place Israel stacked 12 stones taken from the Jordan River after crossing it to enter Canaan (Josh 4:20). Gilgal was also where Israel conducted the ceremony of circumcision for the males of the new generation and observed the first Passover in the land (Josh 5). As Joshua’s headquarters, Gilgal may have had a symbolic status as the center of Yahweh’s activity—so the angel comes from there to judge Israel (Josh 9:610:6–9154314:6).

    John D. Barry et al., Faithlife Study Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012, 2016), Jdg 2:1.

    "And the angel of Yahweh went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, “I brought you up from Egypt, and I brought you to the land that I had promised to your ancestors. I said, ‘I will never break my covenant with you." (Judges 2:1)

    The angel of Yahweh is Jesus Christ in his pre-human existence, the same one appearing to Moses from inside the burning bush at (Exodus 3:2)

    So what was this angels' judgement against Israel?

    And as for you, do not ⌊make a covenant⌋ with the inhabitants of this land; break down their altars.’ But you did not listen to my voice. ⌊Why would you do such a thing⌋? Now I say, I will not drive them out from before you; they will ⌊become as thorns⌋ for you, and their gods (elohim) will be a trap for you.” And as the angel of Yahweh spoke these words to all the ⌊Israelites⌋, the people ⌊wept bitterly⌋. And they called the name of this place Bokim, and there they sacrificed to Yahweh. (Judges 2:2-5)

    Notice the angel of Jehovah judged them because of their unfaithfulness to Jehovah and you see Isaiah 44:6 come alive.  

    Logos claims

    "Faithfulness to Yahweh alone was necessary for Israel to possess the land (see Deut 4:26–28, 40; 5:30–33; 6:16–19; 7:12; 8:1; compare Lev 26)."

    John D. Barry et al., Faithlife Study Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012, 2016), Jdg 2:3.

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 7 Isaiah 44:6 in NWT has " This is what Jehovah says, 'The King of Israel and his Repurchaser, Jehovah of armies: 'I am the first and I am the last. 'There is no God but me. "

    @Brother Rando July 7 Correct. The LEB also has written "Thus says Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, Yahweh of hosts: “I am the first, and I am the last, and there is no god besides me."

    @Brother Rando July 7 * In the NWT, Jehovah is referred to God

    @Brother Rando July 7 * However in the LEB, Yahweh is referred to god

    Logos Bible Study searcn in LEB for person:"Any Deity" finds 273 verses, which includes Exodus 18:11 => Now I know that יהוה Yahweh is greater than all the gods, even in the matter where they the Egyptians dealt arrogantly against the Israelites.” & Isaiah 44:6

    Hebrew "  ומבלעדי אין אלהים " (' and besides me there is no god ') has single case letters so English capitilization shows human translator interpretation. My faith believes in one unique plural God: eternal God being simultaneously having three voices (with one image).

    @Brother Rando July 7 Notice the scripture does not say Jesus or Yeshua. Therefore, trying to change scripture to state Jesus or Yeshua is God is a deceptive error. How can the human LEB John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." be truthfully consistent with scripture ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6 LEB)

    To me, John 1:1 LEB expresses quality of The Word was God (with implication fullness of God was/is The Word with two more God voices), which is consistent with Isaiah 44:6-8 LEB =>

    Thus says יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts: 

    “I am the first, and I am the last, and there is no god besides me. 

    And who is like me? Let him proclaim it! And let him declare it and set it in order for me 

    since I established an eternal people and things that are to come, and let them tell them the things that are coming. 

    You must not tremble, and you must not be paralyzed with fear. 

    Have I not made you hear from of old and declared it, and you are my witnesses? 

    Is there a god besides me? And there is no rock! I know none!” 

    Also consistent is redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts with Matthew 1:18-25 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>

    Now the birth of Jesus Christ occurred in this way. His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant by the Holy Spirit. So Joseph her husband, being righteous and not wanting to disgrace her, intended to divorce her secretly. But as he was considering these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for what has been conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. And she will give birth to a son, and you will call his name ‘Jesus,’ because he will save his people from their sins.” Now all this happened in order that what was spoken by the יהוה Lord through the prophet would be fulfilled, saying, 

    “Behold, the virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Emmanuel,” 

    which is translated, “אלהים God with us.” And Joseph, when he woke up from sleep, did as the angel of the יהוה Lord commanded him, and he took his wife and did not have sexual relations with her until she gave birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus. 

    How is 'he will save his people from their sins' related to Isaiah 44:6 Redeemer/Repurchaser ?

    Observe Emmanuel “אלהים God with us” does NOT mean Michael with us.

    How can human Watchtower Society's NWT John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." be truthfully consistent with scripture ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6 NWT 'There is no God but me.' & LEB 'there is no god besides me.')

    Who shares יהוה name as declared by יהוה in Jeremiah 23:5-6 LEB => “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’

    Hebrew noun (construct spelling => of) for righteousness has pronoun, suffixed, 1st person, plural whose literal translation is: 'יהוה Yahweh righteousness of We'


    @Brother Rando July 7 Here we see Word but the Word is interchangeable with Messenger since Angels are Messengers.

    @Brother Rando July 7 * "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

    @Brother Rando July 7 * "In the beginning was the Messenger, and the Messenger was with God, and the Messenger was a god."

    My faith does NOT see The Word being interchangeable with Messenger (Angel) since the quality of The Word is fully God, who created all Angels.


    @Brother Rando July 7 Logos reference states:

    @Brother Rando July 7  Judges 2:1 See Exod 3:2 and note. Angels in the Bible Table The place Israel stacked 12 stones taken from the Jordan River after crossing it to enter Canaan (Josh 4:20). Gilgal was also where Israel conducted the ceremony of circumcision for the males of the new generation and observed the first Passover in the land (Josh 5). As Joshua’s headquarters, Gilgal may have had a symbolic status as the center of Yahweh’s activity—so the angel comes from there to judge Israel (Josh 9:610:6–9154314:6).

    @Brother Rando July 7 John D. Barry et al., Faithlife Study Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012, 2016), Jdg 2:1.

    Again your quote of Judges 2:1 entry in the Faithlife Study Bible (FSB) is incomplete. Books Search for milestone:bible:jg2.1 OR milestone:bible:jg2.3 highlights entire FSB entries (in different colors):

    FSB is included in the free Lexham Intro Collection (5 vols.)


    @Brother Rando July 7 Logos claims

    Logos publishing Faithlife Study Bible does not result in 'Logos claims'. Truthful statement would be: 'Faithlife Study Bible states'.

    Human Logos corporation is different than human Watchtower Society that requires loyal JW repeating of human Watchtower publication (proves human Watchtower beliefs are the most important love for JW adherents). Remember many Unfulfilled Watch Tower Society predictions provide reason NOT to trust the human organization. True Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God prophets (communication channels) pass test of 100% accuracy.

    Every human has free will to choose what to ❤️ love most. Jeremiah 17:5-11 LEB =>

    Thus says יהוה Yahweh, 

    “Cursed is the person who trusts in humankind and makes flesh his strength, and turns aside his heart from יהוה Yahweh. 

    And he will be like a juniper in the wilderness, and he will not see when good comes, and he will dwell in the parched places in the desert, in a land of salt flats, where no one lives. 

    Blessed be the person who trusts in יהוה Yahweh, and יהוה Yahweh is his trust. 

    For he will be like a tree planted by water, and to the stream it sends its roots, and it will not fear when heat comes, and its leaves will be luxuriant, and in the year of drought it will not be anxious, and it will not cease from the bearing of fruit. 

    The heart is deceitful more than anything else, and it is disastrous. Who can understand it? 

    I, יהוה Yahweh, examine the mind, I test the heart, and give to each one according to his way, according to the fruit of his deeds. 

    Like a partridge that hatches eggs it did not lay is one who amasses wealth without justice. 

    In the middle of his days it will leave him, and at his end he will prove to be a fool.” 

    What hope can the humankind Watchtower Society organization give ? Does effort promoting humankind JW publications really matter ?


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321

    Remembering the False dates of the temple being destroyed by @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Also remembering the rejection of the Name of Jesus and slandering what that name means "Jehovah is Salvation"

    Remembering @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus using the Name Jesus, but not believing in him as the Christ, the Son of the living God. Matthew 16:16

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus claims God only became better than the angel because of the Name her inherited. Sad because he thinks God was worse than the angels before given the Name.

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • Remember @Jan January 3 Thanks for calling out the ad hominems and name calling, and sorry I've been slow to respond. Please be more respectful with each other, and remember if you use ad hominems that signifies that there are no real arguments.

    @Brother Rando July 11 Remembering the False dates of the temple being destroyed by @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus 

    How does dating of Jewish temple destruction relate to truthfulness of my questions in this discussion about scripture ?

    Remember temple dating has already been discussed elsewhere.

    @Brother Rando July 11 Also remembering the rejection of the Name of Jesus and slandering what that name means "Jehovah is Salvation"

    Remember earlier name agreement this year:

    @Brother Rando January 2 Yeshua when translated means "Yahweh is Salvation".

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus January 2 We agree Yeshua = יהוה Salvation.

    Could @Brother Rando be expressing my rejection of untrustworthy WatchTower Society publications ?

    Remember many Unfulfilled Watch Tower Society predictions provide reason NOT to trust the human organization. True Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God prophets (communication channels) pass test of 100% accuracy.

    Remember Jewish Masoretes knew Jewish law for disguising יהוה name for use outside the Jewish Temple. The Mishnah is a compilation of Jewish oral law ~200 AD, which includes Talmud 7.2 (in the Fifth Division - Holy Things)

    7:2 A They [the priests who had participated] came and stood on the steps of the porch.

    B They who were first [the one who removed the ashes of the inner altar, and the one who cleaned up the candlestick, the one who carried the shovel and the one who offered the incense and his associate] took up a position at the south of their brethren, the priests.

    C And five utensils were in their hand: (1) the ash bin in the hand of one, (2) the oil jar in the hand of one, and (3) the fire shovel in the hand of one, (4) the [incense] dish in the hand of one, and (5) the ladle and its cover [M. 5:4] in the hand of one.

    D They said one [priestly] blessing for the people [Num. 6:24–26].

    E But: In the provinces they say it as three blessings, and in the sanctuary, as one blessing.

    F In the sanctuary they would pronounce the [divine] name as it is written, and in the provinces, by an epithet.

    G In the provinces the priests raise up the palms of their hands as high as their shoulders, and in the sanctuary, over their heads,

    H except for the high priest, who does not raise his hands higher than the frontlet.

    I R. Judah says, “Even the high priest raises his hands above the frontlet,

    J “since it is said, And Aaron lifted up his hands toward the people and blessed them (Lev. 9:22)” [M. Sot. 7:6].


     Jacob Neusner, The Mishnah : A New Translation (New Haven, CT: Yale University Press, 1988), 871–872.

    Jehovah has the simple epithet disguise of the vowels written in reverse order. Modern analogy is Ronda (instead of Rando).

    JeHoVaH and YaHWeH are both incorrect for pronouncing יהוה (correct three vowels in the correct order with accented middle syllable results in Awesomely Holy Name).

    Remember a number of Jewish names end in yahu, which is the first two syllables of יהוה

    • B’nayahu (Benaiah - "יהוה has built up")
    • Eliyahu (Eliajah - "God is יהוה" or "my God is יהוה")
    • Yesha‘yahu (Isaiah - "יהוה has saved")
    • Yirmeyahu (Jeremiah - "whom יהוה has appointed")
    • Yoshiyahu (Josiah - "whom יהוה heals")
    • Mattityahu (Matthew - "gift of יהוה")

    @Brother Rando July 11 Remembering @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus using the Name Jesus, but not believing in him as the Christ, the Son of the living God. Matthew 16:16

    Could @Brother Rando be expressing my rejection of untrustworthy WatchTower Society interpretation (Michael) for the Name Jesus ?

    Thank you for trying to express my faith belief. Sadly the words lack truth. My faith believes eternal Jesus is The Christ, the Son of the Living God.

    @Brother Rando July 11 @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus claims God only became better than the angel because of the Name her inherited. Sad because he thinks God was worse than the angels before given the Name.

    Please provide source for @Brother Rando claim about me (words are foreign to me). Remember יהוה will judge false witnesses:

    Exodus 20:16 LEB => “You shall not testify against your neighbor with a false witness. 

    Deuteronomy 5:20 LEB => ‘And you shall not falsely bear evidence against your neighbor. 

    Thankfully יהוה sent one voice portion of יהוה to be clothed in a Holy human body, which was joyfully offered as the substitute sin sacrifice. My faith believes יהוה Salvation (יֵשׁוּעַ Yeshua) paid the righteous penalty for my sins against יהוה so God's Holy blood is redeeming me from sin.

    Remember my observation: humans are stubborn. I am powerless to change personal belief in someone else. Every human has free will choice for what to ❤️ love most, which is expressed by actions and words. Only one narrow righteous way results in Holy God's ❤️ Loving presence: now & forever. I want to keep 🙏 worshipping & ❤️ loving Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God with all of me ❤️🙏


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321
    edited July 2023

    Remembering when @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus proclaimed using Names that have the letter "J" in them are false and inaccurate while he himself does it.

    Remembering when @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus stated Names with the letter "J" were never used in the Hebrew Scriptures.

    Remembering what @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus said that there is No "J" until 500 years ago.

    • No Jehovah
    • No Jesus
    • No Elijah
    • No Jeremiah
    • No Josiah

    Then quoting Names that all Bare Witness to the One True God JEHOVAH.

    Notice all the "J's" he is using that he claims are fraudulent? What does that make you Mr. @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus?

    • And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God to blaspheme his Name and his dwelling place, even those residing in heaven. (Revelation 13:6)

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • @Brother Rando July 12 Remembering when @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus proclaimed using Names that have the letter "J" in them are false and inaccurate while he himself does it.

    Curious about my proclaimation(s) that has @Brother Rando twisted interpretation.

    @Brother Rando July 12 Remembering when @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus stated Names with the letter "J" were never used in the Hebrew Scriptures.

    Curious about my stated comment(s) that has @Brother Rando twisted interpretation.

    @Brother Rando July 12 Remembering what @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus said that there is No "J" until 500 years ago.

    Curious about what I said that has @Brother Rando twisted interpretation.

    About 500 years ago is correct for chapter & verse numbering additions during development of Concordance for showing locations of words.

    Remember the Latin language spelling of Jesus on the cross was IESUS as the "I" letter represented both "i" vowel and "j" consonant. Centuries later had the spilt of "i" vowel and "j" consonant, which resuted in Jesus.

    Hebrew for the Rest of Us includes transliteration and modern sound for each Hebrew letter:

    Learning Biblical Hebrew: Reading for Comprehension: An Introductory Grammar shows phonetic sound for each Hebrew letter:

    Logos Help for Transliteration shows letter "j" corresponding to Hebrew letter Yod:


    The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT) has an extensive entry abuot Ἰησοῦς ( Iēsous )

    Ἰησοῦς → ὄνομα.

    1. The Greek form of a list of OT characters who in pre-exilic Hebrew are called יְהוֹשֻׁעַ and usually after the Exile יֵשׁוּעַ.

    Joshua the son of Nun is יְהוֹשֻׁעַ in Ex., Nu., Dt., Jos., Ju., 1 K. 16:34, 1 Ch. 7:27 and the Heb. of Sir. 46:1, but יֵשׁוּעַ in Neh. 8:17. The high-priest Joshua, the son of Josedech, who returned with Zerubbabel from exile, is always called יְהוֹשֻׁעַ in Hag. and Zech. and always יֵשׁוּעַ, in Ezr. and Neh. יְהוֹשֻׁע is the name of two men in 1 S. 6:14, 18; 2 K. 23:8, while 2 Ch. 31:15 calls a Levite under Hezekiah יֵשׁוּעַ, and this form of the name is also found in post-exilic priestly and Levitical families and in the references to their return from exile under Zerubbabel and Joshua. The full form thus prevails up to c. 500, and after that (up to 1 Ch. 7:27 and Sir. 46:1) the shorter.

    The reason for the vowel shift from ô to ê seems to be the desire to avoid having ô and û together, and perhaps there was a general tendency for the cholera to become ö.2

    The LXX retained the later form יֵשׁוּעַ, and made it declinable by adding a nominative ς.

    Gen. Ἰησοῦ, Dat. 19 times Ἰησοῖ (only in Ex., Dt. and Jos.), 7 times Ἰησοῦ (Ex. 17:9; Jos. 10:17; 17:14; 1 Ch. 24:11; 1 Εσδρ. 5:65; 2 Εσδρ. 2:36 (B Ἰησοῖ); 21:26 (a city name); acc. Ἰησοῦν, voc. Ἰησοῦ.

    Only at 1 Ch. 7:27 is Joshua the son of Nun Ἰησουε, and here alone his father is Νουμ. The MSS shows further variations in the Gk. form of the name. B has Ἰησουε at 2 Εσδρ. 2:40; A alone has Ἰησοῦ at 1 Βασ‌. 6:14, 18 (B Ὠσηε) and the Luc recension also has Ἰωσηε at 4 Βασ‌. 23:8. There is a great variety in the rendering of יֵשׁוּעַ at 1 Εσδρ. 5:26: A Ἰησουε, B Ἰησουεις, and the others Ἰησοῦ. In B, too, Ἰησοῦς is used for several other OT names: 2 Βασ‌. 20:25 (for שְׁיָא); 1 Ch. 2:38 (for יֵהוּא); 1 Ch. 2:47 (for יָהֵדָּי); 1 Ch. 18:16 (שַׁוְשָׁא); 2 Ch. 20:34 (יֵהוּא). At Sir. 48:20 א and V have Ἰησοῦ instead of Ἠσαίου.

    2. Up to the beginning of the 2nd century a.d. the name יֵשׁוּעַ or Ἰησοῦς was very common among the Jews.

    Among the 72 translators of the LXX according to Ep. Ar. (48, 49), three bear the name of Ἰησοῦς. Jos. mentions some 20 of the name, including ten contemporaries of Jesus The ossuary inscr. from the vicinity of Jerusalem (at the beginning of the 2nd cent. a.d. at the very latest) yield us ישוע once, ישוע בר נתי once, שמעון בר ישוע once, and once ישוע בר יהוסף and ישו, with perhaps also the imperfect שוע. In the sepulchre of a Jew of the dispersion on Mount Scopus near Jerusalem12 we also find the inscription Ἰησοῦς.

    The first certain example of Ἰησοῦς in Gk. is on a burial inscr. of the year 1 b.c.-a.d. 1, though there is probably an instance in P. Oxy., IV, 816 (6th-5th cent. b.c.). The pap. of the Jewish colony of Apollonopolis Magna (1st-2nd cent. a.d.) yield many examples.

    The evidence of the NT is to the same effect. In Ac. 7:45 and Hb. 4:8 there is reference to Ἰησοῦς, i.e., Joshua the son of Nun. Many others bear the name as well as Jesus. Thus we find a pre-exilic example in the genealogy in Lk. 3:29. In Mt. 27:16 (Θλ) Barabbas is also called Ἰησοῦς Βαραββᾶς. In Ac. 13:6 the sorcerer in Cyprus is called Βαριησοῦς == בַּר יֵשׁוּעַ, and in Col. 4:11 the helper of Paul is Ἰησοῦς ὁ λεγόμενος Ἰοῦστος.

    Once the Jews came under Greek influence, we note a tendency to replace or to translate Jewish names by similar sounding Greek names. For an example of the latter, cf. the family of Dositheos, whose son and nephew are both called Mattathias (Matthias). For the former, cf. אֶסְתֵּר/Ἀστήρ or שָׁאוּל/Παῦλος. יֵשׁוּעַ is often rendered Ἰάσων, e.g., the brother of the high-priest Onias in the Syrian period, Jos. Ant., 12, 239. Among the translators of the LXX we twice find Ἰάσων in Ep. Ar., 49, and the name is also found twice in the records of Apollonopolis Magna.

    With the 2nd century a.d., יֵשׁוּעַ or Ἰησοῦς disappears as a proper name. In Rabbinic literature ישוע is found only as the name of the 9th priestly class; elsewhere we always have the full יְהוֹשׁוּעַ, which is borne by quite a number of rabbis. In the Greek field, however, Ἰάσων may still be found in the catacombs. Ἰησοῦς, on the other hand, is not found there, although the form Gesua and the feminine Gesues occur in Venusia in the 6th century a.d. At a later date the name Jesus is rare as a proper name.26 When we add to this the fact that Jesus of Nazareth is almost always called יֵשׁוּ in Rabbinic writings, we are confronted by a problem which demands explanation. The full form in the Rabbis might be a return to the biblical form, but the short form יוֹסֵי instead of the biblical יוֹסֵף maintained itself some centuries longer. To regard יֵשׁוּ as merely a transcription of the Greek Ἰησοῦς creates both linguistic and material difficulties. ς is usually transcribed ס, and the ς ending is usually carried over; it is also hard to suppose that the Rabbis had to learn the name Jesu from the Greek Church. The common conjecture that in both the Greek and the Hebrew spheres the Jews deliberately avoided the name Ἰησοῦς/יֵשׁוּעַbecause of their rejection of Jesus is confronted by the difficulty that Ἀ, Σ and Θ do not avoid Ἰησοῦς, although the Jews should have altered the LXX in view of its use by Christians, and although Christian apologetic often used as a Scripture proof against the Jews the presence of Ἰησοῦς for Joshua in the Greek Bible (→ 292). Nevertheless, the three facts that Ἰησοῦς begins to drop out of the Greek sphere after the beginning of the 2nd century a.d., that the Rabbis return to the older form of the name, and that in the Talmud the singular form יֵשׁוּ is used only for Jesus of Nazareth, cannot be separated from one another, and they seem to be explained best by the theory that the name of Jesus is consciously avoided. יֵשׁוּ instead of יֵשׁוּעַ is an assimilation to the Greek Ἰησοῦς.

    3. The name borne by Jesus is in the first instance an expression of His humanity. The three Gospels speak of One who bears this common name. It is by this name that He is discussed among the people. This is the name by which He is addressed. To distinguish Him from others of the same name there is added ἀπὸ Ναζαρὲτ τῆς Γαλιλαίας, or ὁ Ναζαρηνός, or ὁ Ναζωραῖος. The phrase υἱὸς Δαυείδ is also added to show that He belongs to the house of David.

    At Mt. 21:11 the people says: οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ προφήτης Ἰησοῦς ὁ ἀπὸ Ναζαρὲθ τῆς Γαλιλαίας; at Mk. 14:67 and par. (cf. Mt. 26:71) the maid says to Peter: καὶ σὺ μετὰ τοῦ Ναζαρηνοῦ ἦσθα τοῦ Ἰησοῦ; at Mk. 10:47 and par. the blind man says: ἀκούσας ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζαρηνός ἐστιν; at Mt. 27:37 Pilate causes to be written on the cross: οὗτός ἐστιν Ἰησοῦς ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων (ὁ Ναζωραῖος is added to Ἰησοῦς at Jn. 19:19); at Jn. 1:45 Philip tells Nathanael: εὑρήκαμεν Ἰησοῦν υἱὸν τοῦ Ἰωσὴφ τὸν ἀπὸ Ναζαρέτ; at Jn. 18:5, 7 the guard seeks Ἰησοῦν τὸν Ναζωραῖον; at Lk. 24:19 Cleophas tells the stranger τὰ περὶ Ἰησοῦ τοῦ Ναζαρηνοῦ; at Mk. 16:6 the angel says: Ἰησοῦν ζητεῖτε τὸν Ναζαρηνόν. Where the Evangelists tell us briefly what others think or say about Jesus, they do not give an addition to distinguish Him from others of the same name (Lk. 7:3; Mk. 5:27; Mt. 14:1; Mk. 5:20 and par.; cf. Lk. 6:11). He is most commonly addressed as διδάσκαλε, ῥαββεί, ἐπιστάτα, or κύριε, but we also find Ἰησοῦ Ναζαρηνέ at Mk. 1:24 and par. and υἱὲ Δαυεὶδ Ἰησοῦ at Mk. 10:47 f. (cf. Lk. 18:38). The penitent thief uses only His name at Lk. 23:42 and the lepers have Ἰησοῦ ἐπιστάτα at Lk. 17:13.

    Of this Ἰησοῦς who was born under Herod the Great and crucified under Pontius Pilate, it is confessed by the early Church and the whole Christian world that He was raised again from the dead as the ἀρχηγὸς τῆς ζωῆς (Ac. 3:15), that He has been made the Messiah of His people and the Lord of the whole world, and that this Ἰησοῦς ἀπὸ Ναζαρὲτ τῆς Γαλιλαίας is God’s only-begotten Son and the only Saviour of all men. Ἰησοῦς ὁ Χριστός, Ἰησοῦς ὁ κύριος, is the confession of Christianity, which sees in Him who ἐν ὁμοιώματι ἀνθρώπων γενόμενος καὶ σχήματι εὑρεθεὶς ὡς ἄνθρωπος the εἰκὼν τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ἀοράτου (Phil. 2:7). There is no separation between an earthly body and a Christ who put on this body, as in Christian Gnosticism. Ἰησοῦς is ὁ κύριος, and not something apart from Him. Hence the Gospels, the missionary preaching of Acts and Paul (Gl. 3:1) present this Jesus of Nazareth and say that God has made this man the Lord and the Judge: ἐν ἀνδρὶ ᾧ ὥρισεν, Ac. 17:31 (D: ἐν ἀνδρὶ Ἰησοῦ).

    What has been said throws light on the usage of the four Gospels and Acts. Where Mk. uses a designation—he usually speaks of Jesus in the third person—he normally has Ἰησοῦς. When he mentions Jesus for the first time in 1:9, he has the more precise Ἰησοῦς ἀπὸ Ναζαρὲτ τῆς Γαλιλαίας. Mt. and Lk. follow Mk., except that Mt. uses the name much more frequently, e.g., to introduce stories or sayings, whereas Lk. often has ὁ κύριος (up to Lk. 22:61b only in the distinctive Lucan material). Only in the first sentence does Mk. add Χριστός to Ἰησοῦς (cf. also Mt. 1:1). Χριστός alone instead of the name is found only at Mk. 9:41 and Mt. 11:2, perhaps deliberately in the latter case. Jn. uses Ἰησοῦς more often than Mt., and sometimes κύριος.

    In Acts the simple Ἰησοῦς is common, nor is this used merely in references to the life of Jesus (1:1, 14, 16) or in the sayings of non-Christians concerning Him (4:18; 5:40; 17:7, 18; 19:13, 15; 25:19; 26:9). It is by this name that He declares Himself to Saul (9:5; 22:8; 26:15). The angels also use it at the ascension (1:11). Stephen is supposed to have said that Jesus the Nazarene would destroy this place (6:14), and Stephen also sees Jesus standing at the right hand of God (7:55).

    Nevertheless, Acts clearly proclaims that Jesus is the Christ, and the addition ὁ Ναζωραῖος is sometimes made in order to point plainly to the historical figure and to show what the Jews did to this Jesus in Jerusalem, 2:22, 32, 36; 3:13, 20; 5:30; 10:38; 13:23 and 33; 17:3; 18:5, 28; cf. also 4:10; 9:27. This is how Jesus is proclaimed in Ac., 8:35; 9:20; 18:25; 28:23. But we also find expressions like εὐαγγελίζεσθαι τὸν κύριον Ἰησοῦν, 11:20; 28:31 (+ Χριστός), or on Palestinian soil τὸν Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν, 5:42, or simply τὸν Χριστόν, 8:5, or περὶ τοῦ ὀνόματος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, 8:12, or in missionary preaching references to Ἰησοῦς Χριστός (Χριστός without art.), 9:34; 10:36; 16:18. For the simple Ἰησοῦς, cf. also 9:17. This all goes to show that in Acts the preaching of the first community and its messengers is to the effect that a specific bearer of this well-known name is the Lord, the Messiah. Where the reference is less to the content of the message, Ac. uses other phrases which derive from the usage of the community, e.g., sayings of the κύριος (11:16; 20:35); the word of the κύριος, 8:25; 12:24; 13:12, 48 f.; 15:35 f.; 19:10; to be converted to, or to believe in, the κύριος (κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστός). In Ac. 19:4 the simple Ἰησοῦς naturally denotes this specific bearer of the name. Special reference should be made to Ac. 16:7: οὐκ εἴασεν αὐτοὺς τὸ πνεῦμα Ἰησοῦ.

    If Acts, like the special Lucan material, illustrates the usage of the community, for which ὁ κύριος was a sufficient designation of Jesus and Ἰησοῦς Χριστός and ὁ κύριος (ἡμῶν) Ἰησοῦς Χριστός were fixed expressions, it is still astonishing that the simple Ἰησοῦς is so rare in the NT epistles. Half of the passages in which Paul uses the simple Ἰησοῦς are to be found in 1 Th. 4:14 and 2 C. 4:11–14. The substance of these passages makes it plain that Paul is thinking especially of the historical Jesus, as the simple Ἰησοῦς itself suggests. This is also true in Phil. 2:10: ἵνα ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ πᾶν γόνυ κάμψῃ, to the one who has passed through the lowliness of humanity and suffering God has granted that every knee should bow at this name of humility. Similarly the death and resurrection of Jesus are at issue in most of the other passages in which Paul has the simple Ἰησοῦς, 1 Th. 4:14a; Gl. 6:17; 2 C. 4:10 a and b, 11 a and b, 14b; R. 8:11a. Ἰησοῦς is also found at 2 C. 4:5; 11:4; R. 3:26; Eph. 4:21. The second of these passages reminds us of Acts. Ἰησοῦς also occurs in Hb. and Rev. in external expression of the fact that it is the one Jesus of Nazareth whose history is the basis of Christian faith, Hb. 2:9; 3:1; 6:20; 7:22; 10:19; 12:2, 24; Rev. 1:9b; 14:12; 17:6; 20:4; 22:16.

    4. According to Mt. and Lk. the name יֵשׁוּעַ == Ἰησοῦς is not accidental. It is given to the child of Mary by virtue of the divine promise. Mt. 1:21 explains this as follows: καλέσεις τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦν· αὐτὸς γὰρ σώσει τὸν λαὸν αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν αὐτῶν. This shows that the important thing in the name יֵשׁוּעַ is the verb ישע. On the material significance of the name as thus expounded, → σῴζω.

    The full form יְהוֹשֻׁעַ is a sentence name, in which the subject comes first and represents a form of the divine name יהוה, and in which the verb is a subsidiary form of the verb ישע which is also found in names like אֲבִישׁוּעַ, אֱלִישׁוּעַ and מַלְכִּישׁוּעַ, and which means “to help.” Philo’s explanation, while not wholly accurate, recognises the two parts (Mut. Nom., 121): Ἰησοῦς σωτηρία κυρίου. More exact is the interpretation in a pap. of the 3rd to 4th cent. a.d.: Ἰησοῦς Ἰω σωτηρία. The Rabbis, too, were aware of the two parts of the name, Nu. r., 16 on 13:2 (Str.-B., I, 64): הושע is called יהושע (Nu. 13:6), i.e., י is added, because in view of the wickedness of the spies Moses said: י״ה יושיעך מן הדור הזה: The י thus indicates the tetragrammaton (or its abbreviation י״ה). The shortened form יֵשׁוּעַ no longer expresses the theophoric element clearly, directing attention simply to the verb ישע, cf., Sir. 46:1 with reference to Joshua: ὃς ἐγένετο κατὰ τὸ ὄνομα αὑτοῦ μέγας ἐπὶ σωτηρίᾳ ἐκλεκτῶν αὐτοῦ. Cl. Al. and Cyril38 also link the name Ἰησοῦς with the Gk. ἰάομαι, but the scholarship of Eusebius enables him to interpret it in the light of the full Hebrew form: Ἰσουὰ μὲν γὰρ παρʼ Ἑβραίοις σωτηρία, Ἰησοῦς δὲ παρὰ τοῖς αὐτοῖς Ἰωσουὲ ὀνομάζεται: Ἰωσουὲ δέ ἐστιν Ἰαὼ σωτηρία, τοῦτʼ ἔστιν θεοῦ σωτήριον. Chrysostom40 simply attaches to Ἰησοῦς the meaning of σωτηρία.

    H. Lamer believes that the Gk. Jesu is a masculine form of Ἰασώ, the goddess of salvation, for which we have the form Ἰησώ in Herond. Mim., IV, 6. But assimilation to Gk. mythology in the Greek forms of Jewish names leads us into Hellenised Jewish circles, i.e., into circles which approximate culturally, socially and religiously to Hellenism, and which do not participate in the early Christian mission. In any case, the formation of Ἰησοῦς for יֵשׁוּעַ is centuries older than the Christian period. Early Christianity simply adopts the current Gk. form of the Hebrew name יֵשׁוּעַ. It does this quite naturally and with no deliberate policy of choosing related and intelligible Gk. names after the manner of small Hellenising groups.

    5. The name Jesus is finally important from the standpoint of the historicity of Jesus. Those who try to contest the historical existence of the figure of Jesus as portrayed in the Gospels, and to understand the Gospels as the historicising myths of a deity, must support their thesis by showing that there is a Jewish myth of a dying and rising God, and also by producing a schema which makes the individual stories non-historically intelligible in their concrete form and succession, whether this schema be the starry heaven of Drews or the early Christian mission of Raschke. In this connection the name Jesus must also be proved to be the name of a mythological figure, and evidence must be given of a pre-Christian Jesus cult. There are no direct or unequivocal testimonies to any such cult. The most that is possible is deduction. Attention is first drawn to the OT יְהוֹשֻׁעַ, Joshua, the son of Nun, in whom an earlier period of OT research found a saga-like figure who had perhaps been invested with mythological features (Jos. 10:12). Thus for Robertson, to whom Drews appeals, Joshua has characteristics of the Sun God. Furthermore, by linking Ex. 23:20–23 with Jos. 24:11, Joshua may be equated with the angel in whom is God’s name, since the nations which in the one place are driven out by the angel are the same as those driven out by God through Joshua. In later Jewish tradition this angel is equated with Metatron (→ θρὀνος, 164, n. 30), and in the liturgy for the New Year festival there is reference to Joshua as the prince of the presence of God.44 From this is deduced an ancient equation of Joshua/Jesus with Metatron, and Joshua is thus made the name of a mythical liberator.46 The same mythical position of Joshua is supposedly reflected at Jd. 5 according to the reading in BA vg Or.: ὑπομνῆσαι δὲ ὑμᾶς βούλομαι, εἰδότας ἅπαξ πάντα, ὅτι Ἰησοῦς (other readings: [ὁ] κύριος or ὀ θεός) λαὸν ἐκ γῆς Αἰγύπτου σώσας τὸ δεύτερον, (this is where Drews puts the comma) τοὺς μὴ πιστεύσαντας ἀπώλεσεν. In Sib., V, 256–259, according to the traditional text, Joshua, ὃς ἠέλιόν ποτε στῆσεν, is equated with the returning Christ, ὃς παλάμας ἥπλωσεν ἐπὶ ξύλου πολυκάρπου, and Drews asks whether Enoch, Melchisedek, Noah, Joseph and Cain would all be objects of cultic worship and not Joshua.49 But this whole line of reasoning is quite unsound. Joshua is never depicted as a mythical figure in the OT. There is no trace of a Joshua myth in later Judaism. The combining of Ex. 23:20–23 and Jos. 24:11 is an exact reproduction of the methods of Rabbinic exegesis, which takes words out of their context and uses similarities to prove similarities in the context. Without this arbitrary combination, however, the examples culled from the Jewish literature of later antiquity and the Middle Ages are irrelevant. For none of them equates Joshua with Metatron. Robertson is the one to substitute Joshua for Metatron in the passages adduced. The Jude passage does not refer to Joshua. Whether we read κύριος or Ἰησοῦς, it refers to the Lord Himself active in OT history. In any case, the allusion is to the wilderness wandering rather than the entry into the promised land. The Sib. passage is disputed, and we should perhaps follow Geffcken in reading στήσει instead of στῆσεν. It is quite valueless to suggest that ישוע, echoes יִצְחָק, whom Abraham was to sacrifice. There is no such similarity, so that this is no proof of the pre-Christian combination of a Jesus figure with the concept of sacrifice. Equally valueless is the suggestion of Drews (on the basis of Epiphanius) that the sect of the Jessaeans was perhaps named after Jesus, or His ancestor Jesse, or Isaiah, who wrote of the Suffering Servant.53 Valueless again is the argument that, because Epiphanius once calls Jesus θεραπευτής, the Jewish society of Therapeutae or the Essenes—the connection is not very clear—worshipped their cultic god under the name of Jesus. And we can raise the question whether the sorcerer Bar-jesus was the son of one of the many יֵשׁוּעַ of the time or whether he belonged to a Jesus sect only if there is evidence elsewhere for the existence of such a pre-Christian sect. For Smith the reference to Apollos in Ac. 18:24–28 is highly important. If Apollos knows only the baptism of John, he knows nothing of a historical Jesus. Hence here and everywhere else the phrase used of Apollos in Ac. 18:25: ἐδίδασκεν ἀκριβῶς τὰ περὶ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ, denotes material rather than historical instruction. Goguel expressly refutes this argument and proves the very opposite.57 Indeed, we have already seen that Ac. always uses Ἰησοῦς for the historical Jesus. The provisional aspect in the position of Apollos is precisely his limited knowledge of the historical Jesus.

    This negative demonstration must be supplemented by positive exposition. For later Judaism the period of the Exodus, along with the figure of Abraham, was the central point in world history. The reception of the Law by the people of Israel brought a return of the age of Paradise. This is not restricted to the actual giving of the Law; it embraces the whole Exodus. The coming age of salvation is depicted in the colours of the Exodus period. The period of the entry into the land, however, does not share in this glory, though the technical term for possession, נחל or ירש, → κληρονομεῖν, is also used for inheritance of eternal life. The future inheritance of the land is not depicted in terms of the entry under Joshua. Hence Joshua is not a prototype of the Messiah in later Judaism. Naturally, later Judaism does not ignore Joshua. He is one of the righteous heroes of the history of Israel. He is a meritorious figure. But for the Rabbis only a few aspects of his story are significant, as in the case of many other OT characters.58

    In the NT the giving of the Law is no longer the crucial point in world history. For Paul it is an interim act between the commencement of salvation history with Abraham and its completion in Jesus Christ. Thus the period of the Exodus no longer has the glory of Paradise on the basis of reception of the Law. But the events of the Exodus are still important as written for us, 1 C. 10:1 ff.; Hb. 11:27 ff.; Rev. 15:2–4. Also written for us is the story of Joshua. That is to say, it is written to show the power of faith, Hb. 11:30 f. But the OT events here retain their historical place and singularity. The same is true in Hb. 3:7–4:13 and Hb. 4:8, where Joshua is mentioned. Here the entry into the promised land ought to have brought fulfilment of the divine promises. What is emphasised, however, is that history did not bring about this fulfilment. The figure of Joshua is mentioned with no typological implications. Similarly, Ac. 7:45 refers to him only incidentally. The fact that the story of Joshua is so little mentioned in the NT is not due to the accidental nature of surviving early Christian documents. It is due to the fact that Joshua does not occupy a decisive place either in later Judaism or in the NT understanding of salvation history. Apologists like Barnabas (12, 7) and Justin (Dial., 75; 113, 2–4; 132) could not fail to see the LXX equation of the names Joshua and Jesus, but even here there is no continuous chain of understanding to support the conjecture of a pre-Christian Joshua-Jesus cult.

    We are on theoretically possible ground only when we come to the reference to Jesus in the so-called Naassene Psalm and to the frequent occurrence of the name Jesus in some magic papyri. For the Naassenes make use of a pre-Christian legacy, and there are many ancient things in the magic papyri. In the great Paris magic papyrus we find the words: ὁρκίζω σε κατὰ τοῦ θεοῦ τῶν Ἑβραίων Ἰησοῦ, and in another place, in a Coptic magic papyrus, we find the address: “God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, Jesus Christos, Holy Spirit, Son of the Father …”62 Elsewhere we find Ἰησοῦς ἀνουι, and also [Ἰησοῦ]ς, ʼΙησοῦς, ʼΙησοῦς ΑΩ ʼΑδωναί ʼΕλωαί ʼΕλωέ. If these texts were pre-Christian, they would point to a pre-Christian cult of Jesus. The first and last would also equate Jesus with the God of the OT, and in virtue of the concluding formula—φύλασσε καθαρός· ὁ γὰρ λόγος ἐστὶν Ἑβραϊκὸς καὶ φυλασσόμενος παρὰ καθαροῖς ἀνδράσιν— Drews concurs with A. Dieterich in ascribing the first directly to the Therapeutae or related circles,66 though there is no evidence whatever for this. Indeed, the texts all belong to a later period, and they show what an impression Christian faith in Jesus Christ made on the surrounding world, and yet how external this impression was, since the authors of these magic texts are concerned only to find magically powerful names which they can bend to their own arbitrary purposes.

    At root the attempt to prove a pre-Christian Jesus sect depends upon making speculative combinations in two spheres in which the sources are most obscure, namely, the history of Jewish sects and the history of magic texts. Such combinations are possible only because they are constructed in an empty and dark place. No substantial evidence is adduced in support of a pre-Christian Jesus cult. We have only to note how the people use the name Jesus in the Gospels, or how the Gospels and Acts speak of Jesus without further addition (→ 288), and we find natural and by no means conscious or intentional support for the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth.

    Foerster


     Werner Foerster, “Ἰησοῦς,” ed. Gerhard Kittel, Geoffrey W. Bromiley, and Gerhard Friedrich, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1964–), 284–293.

    TDNT has a lot more information than a Strong's lexicon (dictionary) entry.

    Remember @Brother Rando posting many dictionary definitions using twisted "Strong's Concordance" label. Lexicon is an original language dictionary. Concordance has chapter & verse locations of word usage.


    @Brother Rando July 12 What does that make you Mr. @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus?

    @Brother Rando July 12 * And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God to blaspheme his Name and his dwelling place, even those residing in heaven. (Revelation 13:6)

    Revelation 13:1-10 LEB =>

     And I saw coming up out of the sea a beast that had ten horns and seven heads, and on its horns ten royal headbands, and on its heads a blasphemous name. And the beast that I saw was similar to a leopard, and its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like the mouth of a lion, and the dragon gave it his power and his throne and great authority. And one of its heads appeared as though slaughtered to death, and its ⌊fatal wound⌋ had been healed. And the whole earth was astonished and followed after the beast. And they worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to make war with him? 

    And a mouth was given to him speaking great things and blasphemies, and authority to act was given to him for forty-two months. And he opened his mouth for blasphemies toward God, to blaspheme his name and his dwelling, those who live in heaven. And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given to him over every tribe and people and language and nation. And all those who live on the earth will worship him, ⌊everyone whose name is not written⌋ from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered. If anyone has an ear, let him hear! 

    If anyone is going into captivity, into captivity he goes. 

    If anyone is to be killed by the sword, by the sword he is to be killed. 

    Here is the patient endurance and the faith of the saints. 

    The whole earth is not following me nor worshipping me so @Brother Rando twisted interpretation about me is false.

    Remember our spiritual adversary is the father of lies, who craftily twists falsehoods with truth to deceive: goal is keeping/disrupting every human from truly ❤️ loving Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. My 🙏 prayers include release of @Brother Rando from the twisted trap (dungeon) of our spiritual adversary 🙏 while knowing @Brother Rando has free will choice what to ❤️ love most, which is expressed by actions and words.

    Remember my observation: humans are stubborn. I am powerless to change personal belief in someone else. Every human has free will choice what to ❤️ love most, which is expressed by actions and words. Only one narrow righteous way results in Holy God's ❤️ Loving presence: now & forever. I want to keep 🙏 worshipping & ❤️ loving Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God with all of me ❤️🙏 When I ponder the  ❤️ Love of Holy יהוה Lord Jesus to brutally die in my place for the just penalty of my sins, 😭 tears fill my eyes. Resurrection from the dead gives me reason to Rejoice. When I agree (same speak) with Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God (Jesus is one voice in one unique God) about my sins, Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God is faithful and just to forgive me along with cleansing me from unrighteousness. I cannot earn God's Grace nor do I deserve it. My free will choice is receiving God's Grace & Shalom with desire to freely share with goal for all of us to Rejoice in Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God 😊


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321
    edited July 2023

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ - About 500 years ago is correct for chapter & verse numbering additions during development of Concordance for showing locations of words.

    Remember the Latin language spelling of Jesus on the cross was IESUS as the "I" letter represented both "i" vowel and "j" consonant. Centuries later had the spilt of "i" vowel and "j" consonant, which resuted in Jesus.

    @Brother Rando - Actually, the Latin Language used the Letter "Y" when used and sounds like the English letter "J".

    • Yehovah sounds like Jehovah
    • Yesus sounds like Jesus

    Jehovah

    Jehovah ( / dʒɪˈhoʊvə /) is a Latinization of the Hebrew יְהֹוָה‎ Yəhōwā, one vocalization of the Tetragrammaton יהוה‎ (YHWH), the proper name of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible / Old Testament. [2] [3] [4] The Tetragrammaton יהוה is considered one of the seven names of God in Judaism and a form of God's name in Christianity. [5] [6] [7]

    The Hebrew Language never had LETTERS in it. To Claim the name (Jesus) was in Hebrew for God is a deception. It's called Hebrew Script. When referring to a single script or a grouping of script, it's called character or characters.

    Jesus (name) - Wikipedia

    Jesus ( / ˈdʒiːzəs /) is a masculine given name derived from Iēsous ( Ἰησοῦς; Iesus in Classical Latin) the Ancient Greek form of the Hebrew and Aramaic name Yeshua or Y'shua (Hebrew: ישוע ). [1] [2] As its roots lie in the name Yeshua/Y'shua, it is etymologically related to another biblical name, Joshua. [3]

    Remember, trinitarians claim God has No Name. @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ is a trinitarian that claims God is made up of three different voices. He claims there are No Angels nor Prophets.

    • Claims Moses is אלהים God. (elohim)
    • Claims the Angel of Jehovah is אלהים God. (elohim)

    Actually, the Word of God is God's Personal Chief Messenger that comes from the Greek Word (arche') which is the Beginning of Creation, from the Start of Creation!

    • In the (arche') was the Word.
    • “This is what the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the Beginning of God’s creation, says: (Rev 3:14)


    Logos research admits the Word is a preexistsnt agent of creation with Yahweh, not that the agent is Yahweh.

    1:1 John begins by quoting the opening words of Genesis in Greek (Gen 1:1). He uses Genesis 1:1–5 to establish the “Word” as a preexistent agent of creation present with Yahweh from the beginning.

    John D. Barry, Douglas Mangum, et al., Faithlife Study Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012, 2016), Jn 1:1.

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • @Brother Rando July 13 - Actually, the Latin Language used the Letter "Y" when used and sounds like the English letter "J".

    Please provide a credbile source for Latin Language assertion. History of Latin alphabet is different:

    Jesus is spelled the same in Latin nominative case and English (as shown in interlinear screen shot).

    Hebrew letter Yod has Latin letters "Y" and "J" used in different transliteration scripts.


    @Brother Rando July 13 The Hebrew Language never had LETTERS in it. To Claim the name (Jesus) was in Hebrew for God is a deception. It's called Hebrew Script. When referring to a single script or a grouping of script, it's called character or characters.

    Wikipedia Ancestral scripts and script variants shows nine sets of Hebrew scripts (stylized letters).

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 10 consistent is redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts with Matthew 1:18-25 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>

    Now the birth of Jesus Christ occurred in this way. His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant by the Holy Spirit. So Joseph her husband, being righteous and not wanting to disgrace her, intended to divorce her secretly. But as he was considering these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for what has been conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. And she will give birth to a son, and you will call his name ‘Jesus,’ because he will save his people from their sins.” Now all this happened in order that what was spoken by the יהוה Lord through the prophet would be fulfilled, saying, 

    “Behold, the virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Emmanuel,” 

    which is translated, “אלהים God with us.” And Joseph, when he woke up from sleep, did as the angel of the יהוה Lord commanded him, and he took his wife and did not have sexual relations with her until she gave birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus. 

    Repeating my question from July 10: How is 'he will save his people from their sins' related to Isaiah 44:6 Redeemer/Repurchaser ?

    My faith believes Old Covenant יהוה Yahweh of hosts = יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus the Nazarene in the New Covenant.


    @Brother Rando July 13 Remember, trinitarians claim God has No Name. @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ is a trinitarian that claims God is made up of three different voices. He claims there are No Angels nor Prophets.

    Remember I identify myself as a follower of "The Way" because יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus said: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. ...". Holy יהוה with vowels in correct order (YeHoVaH has simple disguise of vowels in reverse order) and accented syllable is intensely Holy, which is useful for me worshipping Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God by saying six Hebrew words in Deuteronomy 6:4

    Various @Brother Rando comments expressing JW.org (Watchtower Society) twisted "trinitarian" beliefs do not describe my faith belief in a plural unified Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. My understanding is Holy יהוה Lord Jesus in Holy Heaven having normal human height while Michael the archangel is twice as tall. Thankful for Old Covenant prophets who wrote hundreds of prophecies about Holy יהוה Lord Jesus, which had many miraculous fulfillments when Holy יהוה Lord Jesus walked on earth. I look forward to Holy יהוה Lord Jesus returning on the clouds.

    Seeing @Brother Rando Christ again reminded me of a CD comment eariler this year about ad hominem (against human) usage & relevance:

    @Jan January 3 Thanks for calling out the ad hominems and name calling, and sorry I've been slow to respond. Please be more respectful with each other, and remember if you use ad hominems that signifies that there are no real arguments.

    Sad for @Brother Rando free will decision to keep believing/loving human Watchtower Society more than Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God so @Brother Rando does not want to experience true spiritual growth with immensity of Holy Fruit: Love, Joy, Shalom, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Humility, Self-Control.


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321
    edited July 2023

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ Hebrew letter Yod has Latin letters "Y" and "J" used in different transliteration scripts.

    Removing Christ is not an ad hominems or name calling, for it highlights the type of faith you have, One without Christ.

    Remembering when @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ supports the removal of "to be" Christ from scripture.

    • And he healed many ⌊who were sick⌋ with various diseases and expelled many demons. And he did not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him to be Christ. Mark 1:34 LEB
    • Therefore, your support of the LEB removal of to be Christ is your hypocritical faith.
    • Also, your denial of Jesus being "the Christ, the Son of the living God" Matthew 16:16
    • The Apostle John whose name starts with the letter "J" and means Jehovah has been Gracious wrote the following:

    1 John 2:18

    Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour.


    1 John 2:22

    Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.


    2 John 1:7

    For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.


    1 John 4:3

    and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

    So the revealing of your hypocritical faith is fair game. AS long as I hold back from personal name calling against a Member of Christian Debate is not ad hominems or name calling. But when you attack Christian Debate Members by using CD in deleting Christian from the Forum as if it doesn't exist, is the pinnacle of your unchristian and hypocritical faith.

    Also remembering that a member of the Christian Debate Forum found your faith so hypocritical he left and asked Jan to delete his profile and refused to respond to the person who claimed to be somebody they are not.

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • Remember What is Christian Debate?

    What is Christian Debate?

    This is your go-to place for respectful online theological discussion. Feel free to pose Bible questions, spark theological discourse, and connect with people all over the world who are passionate about the Word.

    Christian Debate is a hub for biblical learning, growth, and community. Please keep your questions and comments respectful and polite. Treat others in this forum like you would treat your neighbor at church—don’t be afraid to voice your opinion, but do it with love and kindness.

    This Is a Civilized Place for Public Discussion

    Please treat others with the same love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were having a conversation in a church. Use these guidelines to keep this a clean, well-lighted place for civilized public discussion.

    Improve the Discussion

    Leave every thread better than you found it. With each new post, work to improve the quality of the discussion.

    We care deeply about the topics discussed here. Be respectful about them and the people discussing them, even if you disagree.

    Browse for a few minutes before you post a new thread to help us keep things tidy. You may find that someone has already started a thread about the same subject to which you can contribute. Use this forum’s tools to limit clutter. Rather than signing your posts, fill out your signature information and post an avatar.

    Be Agreeable, Even When You Disagree

    You may wish to voice a contradictory opinion. That’s fine, but remember to criticize ideas, not people. Please avoid:

    Name-calling

    Ad hominem attacks

    Reacting to a post’s tone rather than responding to its content

    If You See a Problem, Flag It

    It’s everyone’s job to make this forum a healthy, happy place for discourse. When you see bad behavior, don’t reply. A reply consumes energy and draws more attention to the offending post. Just flag it. When enough flags accrue, action will be taken, either automatically or by a moderator.

    Thankful for @Brother Rando discussion improvement of Christ hypocrisy warning by @Brother Rando (who is trying to deflect away from hypocrisy in @Brother Rando comments)

    @Brother Rando July 14 Removing Christ is not an ad hominems or name calling, for it highlights the type of faith you have, One without Christ.

    If Christ reflects my faith NOT believing in Michael the archangel for forgiveness of my sins against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God, then Christ Michael would be truthful as my faith does NOT believe God's Christ was Michael the archangel. My faith believes God's eternal Christ, Righteous Ruler.

    Remember many Unfulfilled Watch Tower Society predictions provide legitimate reasons NOT to trust the human organization. True Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God prophets (communication channels) pass test of 100% accuracy.


    @Brother Rando July 14 Remembering when @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ supports the removal of "to be" Christ from scripture.

    Remember @Brother Rando has not provided credible sources for "removal" of Greek words later added to Mark 1:34 during scribal copying as a parallel with Luke 4:41.

    @Brother Rando July 14 * And he healed many ⌊who were sick⌋ with various diseases and expelled many demons. And he did not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him to be Christ.  Mark 1:34 LEB

    Mark 1:34 has two textual variants:

    TR NU ᾔδεισαν αὐτόν “they knew him” א* A 0130 Maj all

    variant 1/WH ηδεισαν αυτον Χριστον ειναι “they knew him to be Christ” B L W Θ f1 28 33 nasbmg netmg

    variant 2 ηδεισαν αυτον τον Χριστον ειναι “they knew him to be the Christ” א2 (C) f 700 none

    Although the expansions in the variant readings are probably the result of scribal conformity to Luke 4:41, it seems odd that not one scribe made an insertion from a Markan parallel, such as 1:24 (where the demons call him “Holy One of God”) or 3:11 and 5:7 (where the demons call him “the Son of God”). In any case, it is within the scope of Mark’s presentation for the demons to know Jesus’ divine identity and for Jesus to silence them. This is part of the “messianic secret” motif that recurs in this gospel. Westcott and Hort adopted the first variant due to their preference for B, although it is bracketed. All English versions follow TR or NU.

     Philip W. Comfort, New Testament Text and Translation Commentary: Commentary on the Variant Readings of the Ancient New Testament Manuscripts and How They Relate to the Major English Translations (Carol Stream, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., 2008), 97.

    Noticed lack of any reply by @Brother Rando for credible source(s) about LEB 'Removed CHRIST' that was requested on November 16, 2022

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus November 16 Please provide credible source(s) for assertion 'LEB removed "to be" Christ' as 'removed' implies the words were present at some point in the past, followed by removal. My previous research found a Mark 1:34 scribal addition "to be" Christ' in a Greek family of manuscripts.

    Remember JW.org online library has three Bibles that agree with LEB in Mark 1:34

    Mark 1:34 KJV => 34 And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.

    Mark 1:34 ASV => 34 And he healed many that were sick with divers diseases, and cast out many demons; and he suffered not the demons to speak, because they knew him.

    Mark 1:34 The Bible in Living English => 34 and he cured many who were ill with various diseases, and expelled many demons, and would not let the demons speak, because they knew him.

    Do the brackets signify a textual variant in The Emphasized Bible ? 34 and he cured many that were sick with divers diseases, and many demons he cast out, and suffered not the demons to be talking,—because they knew him [to be Christ].

    Codex Vaticanus (in the Vatican Library, which was preferred by Westcott & Hort for their Greek New Testamemnt) and Codex Sinaiticus both date back to the 4th Century, but Codex Sinaiticus does NOT have " χριστὸν εἶναι " " Christ to be " in Mark 1:34

    The Syriac Peshitta (Simple) is an early translation from Greek into Syriac, an Aramaic dialect. Translation into English shows Syriac Peshitta does not have "to be Christ" in Mark 1:34 =>

    (34) And he healed many who labored under divers diseases, and cast out many demons; and he suffered not the demons to speak, because they knew him. 

     James Murdock, trans., The Syriac New Testament: Translated into English from the Syriac Peshitto Version (Piscataway, NJ: Gorgias Press, 2001), Mk 1:34.

    The Koine Greek text for the LEB New Testament is the Society of Biblical Languages Greek New Testament (SBLGNT), which chose consistency with most Greek manuscripts of Mark that do NOT have " χριστὸν εἶναι " " Christ to be " (Koine Greek word order has Christ before εἰμί infinitive "to be").

    The LEB preface includes =>

    Second, the LEB is designed from the beginning to make extensive use of the most up-to-date lexical reference works available. For the Old Testament this is primarily The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament (HALOT), and for New Testament this is primarily the third edition of Walter Bauer’s A Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (BDAG). Users can be assured that the LEB as a translation is based on the best scholarly research available. The Hebrew text on which the LEB Old Testament is based is that of Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia. The Greek text on which the LEB New Testament is based is that of The Greek New Testament: SBL Edition (SBLGNT), a new edition produced by Michael W. Holmes in conjunction with the Society of Biblical Literature and Logos Bible Software. In its evaluation of textual variation, the SBLGNT uses modern text-critical methodology along with guidance from the most recently available articles, monographs, and technical commentaries to establish the text of the Greek New Testament.

     W. Hall Harris III et al., eds., The Lexham English Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012).

    Logos Biblt Study has Greek Discourse Features that uses bold text to show discourse emphasis:

    Mark 1:32-34 LEB => Now when it was evening, when the sun had set, they began bringing to him all those ⌊who were sick⌋ and those who were demon-possessed. And the whole town was gathered together at the door. And he healed many ⌊who were sick⌋ with various diseases and expelled many demons. And he did not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him. 

    Luke 4:40-41 LEB => Now as the sun was setting, all who had those who were sick with various diseases brought them to him, and placing his hands on every one of them, he healed them. And demons also were coming out of many, crying out and saying, “You are the Son of God!” And he rebuked them and did not permit them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.

    Fascinating for some scribes copying Greek text to add words to the end of Mark 1:34 for parallel with Luke 4:41 (possibly from phrase memorization).

    @Brother Rando July 14 * Therefore, your support of the LEB removal of to be Christ is your hypocritical faith.

    Remember @Brother Rando disrespected previous Mark 1:34 textual variant discussion on page 26 of Jesus ? "Not God" ? Savior for hypocritical Christ conclusion.


    @Brother Rando July 11 Remembering @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus using the Name Jesus, but not believing in him as the Christ, the Son of the living God. Matthew 16:16

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 12 Could @Brother Rando be expressing my rejection of untrustworthy WatchTower Society interpretation (Michael) for the Name Jesus ?

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 12 Thank you for trying to express my faith belief. Sadly the words lack truth. My faith believes eternal Jesus is The Christ, the Son of the Living God.

    @Brother Rando July 14 * Also, your denial of Jesus being "the Christ, the Son of the living God"Matthew 16:16

    Remember @Brother Rando disrespected previous Matthew 16:16 discussion for hypocritical Christ conclusion.


    @Brother Rando July 14 So the revealing of your hypocritical faith is fair game.

    I am trying to obey many commands in Paul's exhortation written in 1 Thessalonions 5:12-25 LEB (with bold showing discourse emphasis) =>

    Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and rule over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them beyond all measure in love, because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves. And we urge you, brothers, admonish the disorderly, console the discouraged, help the sick, be patient toward all people. See to it that no one pays back evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue good toward one another and toward all people. Rejoice always, pray constantly, give thanks in everything; for this is the will of God for you in Christ Jesus. Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies, but examine all things; hold fast to what is good. Abstain from every form of evil. Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your spirit and soul and body be kept complete, blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, who also will do this. Brothers, pray for us.

    My desire is examining & testing all things for the purpose of holding onto what is good to glorify God.. If examiniation finds my humanity made another mistake, please share credible source(s) so I can prayerfully ponder & research for wise correction. When I am wrong, I will admit it & apologize publicly (as I have done previously). Thankful for positive progress toward my goal of Being Holy as God is Holy, yet I live in a world having much disrespectful sin along with my own flesh having inherited a sin nature = constant spiritual warfare as Paul described in Romans 7.


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ -

    Mark 1:34 has two textual variants:

    TR NU ᾔδεισαν αὐτόν “they knew him” א* A 0130 Maj all

    variant 1/WH ηδεισαν αυτον Χριστον ειναι “they knew him to be Christ” B L W Θ f1 28 33 nasbmg netmg

    variant 2 ηδεισαν αυτον τον Χριστον ειναι “they knew him to be the Christ” א2 (C) f 700 none

    @Brother Rando

    Knowing that you have deleted Christ through omission in your call sign and that You and the LEB also know “they knew him to be the Christ” was in Mark 1:34  makes your faith hypocritical and untruthful. Yet... just as the LEB fails to add "to be Christ" by omission is nothing but cunning.

    If I were take you to court and had you placed under oath I would simply ask two questions.

    • Why do you leave Christ out of your call sign?
    • Why are you in agreement with the LEB who omits "to be Christ in Mark 1:34?

    No further questions your Honor.

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • @Brother Rando July 15 Knowing that you have deleted Christ through omission in your call sign and that You and the LEB also know “they knew him to be the Christ” was in Mark 1:34 makes your faith hypocritical and untruthful. Yet... just as the LEB fails to add "to be Christ" by omission is nothing but cunning.

    Please provide credible evidence for source of knowledge about me.

    By the way, phrase "deleted through omission" reminds me of "Huh?" posted by another CD participant.

    What do the words "Jesus Christ" really mean to @Brother Rando ?

    What reason(s) for using both words ? What does "Jesus Christ" express that "Jesus" does not ?

    @Brother Rando July 15 If I were take you to court and had you placed under oath I would simply ask two questions.

    @Brother Rando July 15 * Why do you leave Christ out of your call sign?

    When I was customizing my Logos forum name over a decade ago, my choice was " Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) " that had acronym KS4J created & used by Logos developers, which was subsequently used by other Logos forum participants (alternative abbreviation is KSFJ).

    Honestly I did not consider " Keep Smiling 4 Jesus Christ :) " as Jesus is the name & Christ (Messiah, "Annointed One") is a title identifying Jesus.

    FWIW: To me, Christmas is a rebranding of Winter Solstice celebration: many Christmas traditions have Winter Solstice heritage.

    At this time, my preference remains " Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) " that reflects my ongoing relationship to ❤️ Love & Worship my King Jesus.

    @Brother Rando July 15 * Why are you in agreement with the LEB who omits "to be Christ in Mark 1:34?

    My honest answer for LEB agreement was posted on July 15

    Court questions for @Brother Rando

    • Do you know of any credible evidence about LEB 'Removed CHRIST' in Mark 1:34 ?
      • If so, please provide credible evidence for LEB removal of Christ 'to be" in Mark 1:34 (thus far credible evidence shows scribal copy addition in some manuscripts in the 4th Century AD)
      • If not, why did you persist in repeatedly posting false accusation about LEB removal of Christ 'to be" in Mark 1:34 ?


    Curious about @Brother Rando opinion of Matthew 5:3-12 Message =>

    “You’re blessed when you’re at the end of your rope. With less of you there is more of God and his rule.

    “You’re blessed when you feel you’ve lost what is most dear to you. Only then can you be embraced by the One most dear to you.

    “You’re blessed when you’re content with just who you are — no more, no less. That’s the moment you find yourselves proud owners of everything that can’t be bought.

    “You’re blessed when you’ve worked up a good appetite for God. He’s food and drink in the best meal you’ll ever eat.

    “You’re blessed when you care. At the moment of being ‘care-full,’ you find yourselves cared for.

    “You’re blessed when you get your inside world — your mind and heart — put right. Then you can see God in the outside world.

    “You’re blessed when you can show people how to cooperate instead of compete or fight. That’s when you discover who you really are, and your place in God’s family.

    “You’re blessed when your commitment to God provokes persecution. The persecution drives you even deeper into God’s kingdom.

    “Not only that — count yourselves blessed every time people put you down or throw you out or speak lies about you to discredit me. What it means is that the truth is too close for comfort and they are uncomfortable. You can be glad when that happens — give a cheer, even! — for though they don’t like it, I do! And all heaven applauds. And know that you are in good company. My prophets and witnesses have always gotten into this kind of trouble.

    Could heaven be applauding @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus for @Brother Rando posting Christ ?


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ - Honestly I did not consider " Keep Smiling 4 Jesus Christ :) " as Jesus is the name & Christ (Messiah, "Annointed One") is a title identifying Jesus.

    FWIW: To me, Christmas is a rebranding of Winter Solstice celebration: many Christmas traditions have Winter Solstice heritage.

    At this time, my preference remains " Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) " that reflects my ongoing relationship to 

     Love & Worship my King Jesus.

    That's not your faith, your faith is in rejecting Christ (Messiah, "Annointed One") by claiming is one part of God's voice. the other two voices are not his voice.

    • Is John that starts with the letter "J" God? "I am a voice in the wilderness" Now that's four voices.
    • The Angel that forgives sins, will not forgive sins if Israel refuses to obey his voice. They are dust in the Wilderness. This makes 5 voices.

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ -To me, Christmas is a rebranding of Winter Solstice celebration:

    Quotes about your demon infested feastable from https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/783/Saturnalia.htm

    "Two key figures in the origin of Christmas are Nimrod, a great grandson of Noah, and his mother and wife, Semiramis, also known as Ishtar and Isis. Nimrod, known in Egypt as Osiris, was the founder of the first world empire at Babel, later known as Babylon (Genesis 10:8-1211:1-9). From ancient sources such as the "Epic of Gilgamesh" and records unearthed by archeologists from long-ruined Mesopotamian and Egyptian cities, we can reconstruct subsequent events."

    The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, in the article "Natal Day," records that the early Catholic church father, Origen, acknowledged:

    In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners like Pharaoh and Herod who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world.

    During the fourth century, the emperor Constantine "converted" to "Christianity" and changed Sabbath keeping from the seventh to the first day of the week. Sunday was the day he had worshipped the sun as his god. This made it easier for the Romans to call their pagan December 25th winter solstice festival, in which they had celebrated the birth of the sun god, the birthday of the "Son of God." END of Quote


    Semiramis is the founder of the trinity and therefore trinitarians celebrate the birth of their Sun God on December 25th. Notice Chirst is absent. These pagan rituals came about 3500 year ago and is celebrated by Christendom Apostates who reject Jesus Christ. Satan got you and your family to worship him by bowing and kneeing at his tree, promising worldly riches. Just one act of worship and it's all yours!

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • @Brother Rando July 15 * Why do you leave Christ out of your call sign?

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 16 When I was customizing my Logos forum name over a decade ago, my choice was " Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) " that had acronym KS4J created & used by Logos developers, which was subsequently used by other Logos forum participants (alternative abbreviation is KSFJ).

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 16 Honestly I did not consider " Keep Smiling 4 Jesus Christ :) " as Jesus is the name & Christ (Messiah, "Annointed One") is a title identifying Jesus.

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 16 At this time, my preference remains " Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) " that reflects my ongoing relationship to ❤️ Love & Worship my King Jesus.

    @Brother Rando July 16 That's not your faith, your faith is in rejecting Christ (Messiah, "Annointed One") by claiming is one part of God's voice. the other two voices are not his voice.

    Blessed was/is/will be the poor in spirit desribes my ongoing 🙏 prayers asking Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God to help me ❤️ Love Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God with all my heart (emotional), mind (mental), soul (social), & strength (physical) so I can Worship (spiritual) Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God, who uniquely has three voices: RIghteous King Abba, Righteous King Jesus, Breath the Holy while intimately/intensely being one unified יהוה Lord אלהים God 🙏❤️

    @Brother Rando July 16 Is John that starts with the letter "J" God? "I am a voice in the wilderness" Now that's four voices

    No. Matthew 11:1-15 LEB =>

    And it happened that when Jesus had finished giving orders to his twelve disciples, he went on from there to teach and to preach in their towns. Now when John heard in prison the deeds of Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we look for another?” And Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John what you hear and see: the blind receive sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised, and the poor have good news announced to them. And whoever is not offended by me is blessed.” 

    Now as these were going away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? But what did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in the houses of kings. But why did you go out? To see a prophet? Yes, I tell you, and even more than a prophet! It is this man about whom it is written: 

    ‘Behold, I am sending my messenger before your face,  who will prepare your way before you.’ 

    Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen one greater than John the Baptist. But the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. But from the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven is treated violently, and the violent claim it. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah, the one who is going to come. The one who has ears, let him hear! 

    John the Baptist (Elijah) was a human messenger preparing the way for Holy יהוה Lord Jesus, King Righteous (Melchizedek).

    Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God has four voice sounds:

    • Holy יהוה Lord Abba, King Righteous
    • Holy יהוה Lord Jesus, King Righteous
    • Ruach HaKodesh (Breath the Holy)
    • All three voices sounding together as One

    FWIW: bright white light has co-equal components of red, yellow, & blue light. Mystery for me is not knowing relative spiritual portion sizing of three voices unified in One Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. My human perspective on one planet in the Universe lacks insight about Universal Majesty.

    @Brother Rando July 16 The Angel that forgives sins, will not forgive sins if Israel refuses to obey his voice. They are dust in the Wilderness. This makes 5 voices. 

    Please provide scripture showing any Angel having authority to forgive sin against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God.

    And יהוה said to Moses (Exodus 20:22) ... Exodus 23:20-23 NWT online =>

    20  “I am sending an angel ahead of you+ to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared.+ 21  Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions,+ because my name is in him. 22  However, if you strictly obey his voice and do all that I say, I will show hostility to your enemies and oppose those who oppose you. 23  For my angel will go ahead of you and will bring you to the Amʹor·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hiʹvites, and the Jebʹu·sites, and I will annihilate them.

    To me Holy יהוה Lord name in the Angel prevented the Angel guarding Jewish people during their journey from pardoning (forgiving) transgressions (sins) against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. The Angel was/is/will be a Holy servant of Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God.


    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 16 FWIW: To me, Christmas is a rebranding of Winter Solstice celebration: many Christmas traditions have Winter Solstice heritage.

    @Brother Rando July 16 The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, in the article "Natal Day," records that the early Catholic church father, Origen, acknowledged:

    In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners like Pharaoh and Herod who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world.

    During the fourth century, the emperor Constantine "converted" to "Christianity" and changed Sabbath keeping from the seventh to the first day of the week. Sunday was the day he had worshipped the sun as his godThis made it easier for the Romans to call their pagan December 25th winter solstice festival, in which they had celebrated the birth of the sun god, the birthday of the "Son of God." END of Quote

    Two sentences in @Brother Rando July 16 quote are in the Catholic Encyclopedia "Natal Day" article:

    Books Search using Logos Bible Study for "sun god" NEAR birthday found 16 results in my Logos library. Noticed the Catholic Encyclopedia did not appear in search results (so @Brother Rando July 16 quote cannot be verified). Search results included St. Augustine: Sermons for Christmas and Epiphany whose introduction has more information:

    @Brother Rando July 16 Semiramis is the founder of the trinity and therefore trinitarians celebrate the birth of their Sun God on December 25th. Notice Chirst is absent. These pagan rituals came about 3500 year ago and is celebrated by Christendom Apostates who reject Jesus Christ. Satan got you and your family to worship him by bowing and kneeing at his tree, promising worldly riches. Just one act of worship and it's all yours!

    Books Search in Logos Bible Study for semiramis NEAR trinity found two results in my Logos library, which included "a trinity" description:

    Remember many Unfulfilled Watch Tower Society predictions provide legitimate reasons NOT to trust the human organization. True Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God prophets (communication channels) pass test of 100% accuracy.

    Remember יהוה will judge false witnesses: (e.g. @Brother Rando words about my worship remind me of "speak lies about you to discredit me" in my July 16 comments that has me wondering if @Brother Rando knows who @Brother Rando worships as proven by lying & twisted words)

    Exodus 20:16 LEB => “You shall not testify against your neighbor with a false witness. 

    Deuteronomy 5:20 LEB => ‘And you shall not falsely bear evidence against your neighbor. 

    Thankfully יהוה sent one voice portion of יהוה to be clothed in a Holy human body, which was joyfully offered as the substitute sin sacrifice. My faith believes יהוה Salvation (יֵשׁוּעַ Yeshua) paid the righteous penalty for my sins against יהוה so God's Holy blood is redeeming me from sin.

    Remember that I identify myself as a follower of "The Way" because יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus said: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. ...". Various CD comments by @Brother Rando about "trinitarian" & "Christendom Apostates" beliefs leave me certain those descriptions do NOT describe my faith belief in a plural unified Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God.

    Remember my observation: humans are stubborn. I am powerless to change personal belief in someone else. Every human has free will choice for what to ❤️ love most, which is expressed by actions and words. Only one narrow righteous way results in Holy God's ❤️ Loving presence: now & forever. I want to keep 🙏 worshipping & ❤️ loving Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God with all of me ❤️🙏


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321
    edited July 2023

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ - To me Holy יהוה Lord name in the Angel prevented the Angel guarding Jewish people during their journey from pardoning (forgiving) transgressions (sins) against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. The Angel was/is/will be a Holy servant of Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God.

    @Brother Rando

    You so busy fighting against Christ you can't even see him or hear his precious voice.

    The Mission of Yahweh’s Servant Look! here is my servant; I hold him, my chosen onein whom my soul delights. I have ⌊put⌋ my spirit on him; he will bring justice forth to the nations. Isaiah 42:1

    •  And a voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to him!” (Luke 9:35)


    The Mission of Yahweh’s Servant Look! here is my servant; I hold him, my chosen one, in whom my soul delights. I have ⌊put⌋ my spirit on him; he will bring justice forth to the nations. Isaiah 42:1

    • Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free, (Luke 4:18)

    The Servant’s Suffering and Exaltation Look, my servant shall achieve success; he shall be exalted, and he shall be lifted up, and he shall be very high. Isaiah 52:13

    • English Standard Version but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
    • Berean Standard Bible but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.
    • but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, Philippians 2:7

    Reasons for Loyal Obedience

    20 “ ‘Look, I am about to send an Angel before you to guard you on the Way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21 Be attentive to him and listen to his voice; do not rebel against him, because he will not forgive your transgression, for My Name is in him. (Exodus 23:20-21)

    • My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. (John 10:27)

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 16 To me Holy יהוה Lord name in the Angel prevented the Angel guarding Jewish people during their journey from pardoning (forgiving) transgressions (sins) against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. The Angel was/is/will be a Holy servant of Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God.

    @Brother Rando July 16 @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ - To me Holy יהוה Lord name in the Angel prevented the Angel guarding Jewish people during their journey from pardoning (forgiving) transgressions (sins) against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. The Angel was/is/will be a Holy servant of Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God.

    Notice Christ added by @Brother Rando that expresses my faith does NOT Believe in Michael the Archangel Christ. Also notice the bold highlighting by @Brother Rando to show personal belief in The Angel.

    @Brother Rando and myself believe in two voices for forgiveness of sins against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. @Brother Rando believes in Jehovah AND Michael the Archangel so the two voices are God AND a created Angelic being (with no plausible idea how anything identifiable as Michael the Archangel took on human flesh - life force electricity lacks knowledge transfer). In contrast, my faith believes in two eternal voices intricately intertwined in One unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God.

    @Brother Rando July 16 You so busy fighting against Christ you can't even see him or hear his precious voice.

    My 🙏 prayers to One unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God include a dream/vision request for @Brother Rando to see the eyes of his "Christ" voice so @Brother Rando can discern immense intensity in eyes for 💝 Hate or ❤️ Love 🙏 as our spiritual adversary, the father of lies, wants to disrupt every human from freely choosing to ❤️ Love One unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God in any possible way. All demons 💝 hate humans.


    @Brother Rando July 16 Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free, (Luke 4:18)

    If Koine Greek word κύριος kuriŏs (Greek Strongs #2962) had been consistently translated, then NWT in Matthew 7:21-23 would be =>

    "Not everyone saying to me, 'JehovahJehovah,' will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘JehovahJehovah, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

    Observe name said to Jesus is NOT Christ nor Michael. To me, the name spoken is consistent with declaration by יהוה in Jeremiah 23:5-6 LEB =>

    “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’

    Hebrew noun (construct spelling => of) for righteousness has pronoun, suffixed, 1st person, plural whose literal translation is: 'יהוה Yahweh righteousness of We'.

    Jeremiah 23:5-6 NWT =>

    “Look! days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will raise up to David a righteous sprout, and a king will reign, and show insight and uphold justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will reside in safety, and this is the name by which he will be called: ‘Jehovah is Our Righteousness.’

    Psalm 110:4 NWT =>

    Jehovah has sworn an oath, and he will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever in the manner of Mel-chiz'e-dek!"

    How is the King's Righteousness name related to Melchizedek (King of Righteousness) ? How could a priest forever have been created ?


    @Brother Rando July 16 but emptied himself by taking the form of a slaveby becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, Philippians 2:7:

    Context of Philippians 2:7 includes Philippians 2:5-11 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>

    Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of אלהים God, did not consider being equal with אלהים God something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross. Therefore also אלהים God exalted him and graciously granted him the name above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and of those on earth and of those under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is יהוה Lord, to the glory of אלהים God the Father. 

    What honor does יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus deserve as Holy יהוה Lord to glorify אלהים God ?


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321
    edited July 2023

    @Brother Rando July 16 Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free, (Luke 4:18)

    When Jesus Christ was reading this scripture he was reading Isaiah 61:1 "The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on me, Because Jehovah did anoint me To proclaim tidings to the humble, He sent me to bind the broken of heart, To proclaim to captives liberty, And to bound ones an opening of bands."

    There are false renderings from cowards that have removed God's Holy and Sacred Name. When they did, most replaced God's Name and inserted "the LORD".

    New International Version

    The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,


    New Living Translation

    The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is upon me, for the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to comfort the brokenhearted and to proclaim that captives will be released and prisoners will be freed.

    Later the offspring of vipers changed "the LORD" to "the Lord" in order to deceive those who noticed "the LORD" is actually referring to Jehovah God. Below you will start to see the conversion from "the LORD" to "the Lord". Notice the definite article.

    English Standard Version

    The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound;


    Berean Standard Bible

    The Spirit of the Lord GOD is on Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and freedom to the prisoners,

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ - If Koine Greek word κύριος kuriŏs (Greek Strongs #2962) had been consistently translated, then NWT in Matthew 7:21-23 would be =>

    "Not everyone saying to me, 'JehovahJehovah,' will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘JehovahJehovah, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

    @Brother Rando - Jesus Christ is the one speaking here. It is not a quote from the Old Testament. The Koine Greek word κύριος kuriŏs (Greek Strongs #2962) is not consistent. Lord can be applied to anyone, including angels and men. The title Lord can also have a simple meaning Sir.

    The quote comes from Jesus Christ are about those who reject his Given Name and his title of Messiahship. Matthew 7:21-23

    The Sermon on the Mount: False Followers

    21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many miracles in your name?’ 23 And then ⌊I will say to them plainly⌋, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew (7:21-23)

    If Jehovah was in this scripture. then we would have one of several witness marks:

    • the LORD, the LORD
    • the Lord GOD, the Lord GOD
    • the Lord, the Lord

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • @Brother Rando July 17 There are false renderings from cowards that have removed God's Holy and Sacred Name. When they did, most replaced God's Name and inserted "the LORD".

    Remember יהוה will punish anyone misusing Holy Name יהוה

    Exodus 20:7 LEB => “You shall not misuse the name of יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God, because יהוה Yahweh will not leave unpunished anyone who misuses his name. 

    Deuteronomy 5:11 LEB => ‘You shall not take up the name of יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God for a worthless purpose, for יהוה Yahweh will not leave unpunished anyone who uses his name for a worthless purpose.

    Logos Bible Study Bible Search of LXX Swete for lemma.h:יהוה finds 6,762 results in Reverse Intelinear aligned words. Bible Search of LXX Swete for lemma.h:יהוה INTERSECTS lemma.g:κύριος finds 6,085 results in Reverse Intelinear aligned words., which is 90%. Reverse Interlinear alignment of Hebrew יהוה has 400 places in LXX Swete not aligned with a Greek lemma. Bible Search of LXX Swete for lemma.h:יהוה INTERSECTS lemma.g:θεός finds 256 results.

    Jewish scholars translated Hebrew יהוה as Κύριε (vooative singular spelling of lemma.g:κύριος) O Lord in Psalm 82:18 for name.

    @Brother Rando July 17 @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ - If Koine Greek word κύριος kuriŏs (Greek Strongs #2962) had been consistently translated, then NWT in Matthew 7:21-23 would be =>

    "Not everyone saying to me, 'JehovahJehovah,' will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘JehovahJehovah, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

    @Brother Rando July 17  - Jesus Christ is the one speaking here. It is not a quote from the Old Testament. The Koine Greek word κύριος kuriŏs (Greek Strongs #2962) is not consistent. Lord can be applied to anyone, including angels and men. The title Lord can also have a simple meaning Sir.

    Logos Bible Study Bible Search of LXX Swete for lemma.g:κύριος finds 8,197 results so 74% of Greek word κύριος kuriŏs (Lord) = יהוה

    For humans on earth, agree title Lord can have simple meaning Sir. Do you know of any verses in a heavenly setting where kuriŏs (Lord) is not יהוה ?

    Remember cultural context for the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew chapters 5 thru 7 is Jewish Rabbi Jesus teaching Jewish Disciples with a Jewish audience, who knew heavenly κύριος kuriŏs (Lord) = יהוה in Greek Scriptures, which reflected Jewish tradition of saying Adonai (Lord) instead of יהוה in synagogue services.


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321

    @Brother Rando July 17 There are false renderings from cowards that have removed God's Holy and Sacred Name. When they did, most replaced God's Name and inserted "the LORD".

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ - Remember יהוה will punish anyone misusing Holy Name יהוה

    Agreed. The Jewish Sanhedrin's goal of transliterating the Hebrew Scriptures to Greek was to remove God's Holy Name יהוה and replacing it. Online there are several variations of the Greek Septuagint from Christendom, all differencing from one another. But Jehovah will indeed bring punishment whom defamed his Name.

    You have even referred to an instance:

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ - Remember cultural context for the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew chapters 5 thru 7 is Jewish Rabbi Jesus teaching Jewish Disciples with a Jewish audience, who knew heavenly κύριος kuriŏs (Lord) = יהוה in Greek Scriptures, which reflected Jewish tradition of saying Adonai (Lord) instead of יהוה in synagogue services.

    Have you ever studied other findings to compile and build your personal library? https://www.blueletterbible.org/ is much more informative site than the Logos Software. I'm not asking you to never use Logos but try to enhance your research. Here's a small sample:

    38:20  יְהוָה לְהוֹשִׁיעֵנִי וּנְגִנוֹתַי נְנַגֵּן כָּל־יְמֵי חַיֵּינוּ עַל־בֵּית יְהוָֽה׃ Now, notice the transliteration: https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/isa/38/20/t_conc_717020

    Notice their explanation:

    If you click on PHRASE then it begins with "The LORD" occurs 6,966 times in 5,911 verses in the KJV. Page 1 / 119 exact matches (Gen 2:4–Gen 13:4)" @ https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=%22The+LORD%22&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

    See the places where God's Holy Name was when you start scrolling down?

    Now when you tap h3068 you will learn more information.

    Scrolling down you will also find:

    You really should read the Full Entry @ https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h3068/kjv/wlc/0-1/ by clicking Read the Full Entry. It's a very good explanation of God's Name in Hebrew and also in Greek!

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • @Brother Rando July 21 Have you ever studied other findings to compile and build your personal library? https://www.blueletterbible.org/ is much more informative site than the Logos Software. 

    Currently Logos.com has 126,496 resources available for purchase (over 1,700 have a price of $0.00 that includes Perseus Cellections). At the free level, Blue Letter Bible has a better set of resources than Logos (noticed a number of public domain commentaries in study resources). Caveat: Logos sophisticated search is better than Blue Letter Bible: e.g. visual filters for original language morphology codes can show range of verbal expression in Bibles with Reverse Interlinears (LEB & KJV are free).

    @Brother Rando July 21 I'm not asking you to never use Logos but try to enhance your research. Here's a small sample:

    Samples remind me of those capabilities in Logos. My purchased Logos library includes most Blue Letter Bible text commentaries plus thousands more (includes many top commentatires), which can be quickly searched by Logos Bible Study software (notably better than Blue Letter Bible). Caveat is Logos purchases have caused my wallet to cry many times over many years.

    @Brother Rando July 21 If you click on PHRASE then it begins with "The LORD" occurs 6,966 times in 5,911 verses in the KJV.

    Logos Bible Search also finds phrase "the Lord" in 5,911 verses:

    Logos Bible Search can also untransliterate h:YHVH to provide a selection list:

    Logos Bible search for lemma.h:יהוה finds 5,791 verses.

    Notice 120 results of "the Lord" in KJV translated something else so Logos Bible Search for "the Lord" NOT INTERSECTS lemma.h:יהוה

    What did Abraham say that was translated "the Lord" ? What is Hebrew Strong's 136 ?

    Hovering mouse in Logos over a word has a pop-up at the bottom of the screen.

    Could Abraham speaking אדֹנָ ( ʾḏō·nā ) to יהוה be the basis for Jewish tradition of saying Adonai (Lord) instead of יהוה in synagogue services ?

    @Brother Rando July 21 You really should read the Full Entry @ https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h3068/kjv/wlc/0-1/ by clicking Read the Full Entry. It's a very good explanation of God's Name in Hebrew and also in Greek!

    Notably missing from full entries is the Jewish Mishnah about disguising יהוה divine name that was mentioned in my July 12 comment. Learning Jewish culture is helping me appreciate original Bible context.


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321

    @Keep Smiling -Samples remind me of those capabilities in Logos. My purchased Logos library includes most Blue Letter Bible text commentaries plus thousands more (includes many top commentatires), which can be quickly searched by Logos Bible Study software (notably better than Blue Letter Bible). Caveat is Logos purchases have caused my wallet to cry many times over many years.

    Logos Bible Search also finds phrase "the Lord" in 5,911 verses:

    Logos charges a fee in denying the teachings of Jesus Christ. "Cure the sick, raise up the dead, make lepers clean, expel demons. You received free, give free. Do not acquire gold or silver or copper for your money belts," (Matthew 10:8)

    • “Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”​—Joel 2:32. This verse was quoted in the NT and was corrupted.

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus - Could Abraham speaking אדֹנָ ( ʾḏō·nā ) to יהוה be the basis for Jewish tradition of saying Adonai (Lord) instead of יהוה in synagogue services ?

    No, the Inspired Hebrew OT had God's Name in it. It was the Jews when that ripped God's Holy and Sacred Name out by replacing it with ( ʾḏō·nā ) Adonay. This title is a Superlative title similar to θεόν. Adonay gives references to the Supreme One, or Sovereign One, Almighty. Adonay and theon are titles not given to anyone else, only Jehovah God.

    Lesser tiles are adonai and theos. But Notice Adonay is only applied to Jehovah alone. See scriptures on the right side.


    @Brother Rando July 21 You really should read the Full Entry @ https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h3068/kjv/wlc/0-1/ by clicking Read the Full Entry. It's a very good explanation of God's Name in Hebrew and also in Greek!

    Notably missing from full entries is the Jewish Mishnah about disguising יהוה divine name that was mentioned in my July 12 comment. Learning Jewish culture is helping me appreciate original Bible context.

    But the disguising יהוה divine name was mentioned in great detail at @ https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h3068/kjv/wlc/0-1/ by clicking Read the Full Entry. It's a very good explanation of God's Name in Hebrew and also in Greek!

    It mentions that later Hebrews, for some centuries before the time of Christ, either Misled by False Interpretation of certain laws, or else following some old superstition. It goes on to tell us, that every time they came upon the Name of God, they substituted Lord.

    They also pointed out that θεόν was in reference to God's Name.

    Actually there are many verses pointing to God's Name by using the superlative title θεόν. A short list is:

    Matthew 4:7 N-AMS

    GRK: Κύριον τὸν θεόν σου

    NAS: THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'

    KJV: the Lord thy God.

    INT: [the] Lord the God of you

    Matthew 4:10 N-AMS

    GRK: Κύριον τὸν θεόν σου προσκυνήσεις

    NAS: THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE

    KJV: the Lord thy God, and him

    INT: [The] Lord the God of you will you worship

    Matthew 5:8 N-AMS

    GRK: αὐτοὶ τὸν θεὸν ὄψονται

    NAS: in heart, for they shall see God.

    KJV: they shall see God.

    INT: they God will see

    Matthew 9:8 N-AMS

    GRK: ἐδόξασαν τὸν θεὸν τὸν δόντα

    NAS: and glorified God, who had given

    KJV: and glorified God, which had given

    INT: glorified God who having given

    Matthew 15:31 N-AMS

    GRK: ἐδόξασαν τὸν θεὸν Ἰσραήλ

    NAS: and they glorified the God of Israel.

    KJV: and they glorified the God of Israel.

    INT: they glorified the God of Israel

    Matthew 22:37 N-AMS

    GRK: Κύριον τὸν θεόν σου ἐν

    NAS: THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL

    KJV: the Lord thy God with all

    INT: Lord the God of you with

    Matthew 27:43 N-AMS

    GRK: ἐπὶ τὸν θεόν ῥυσάσθω νῦν

    NAS: HE TRUSTS IN GOD; LET GOD RESCUE

    KJV: He trusted in God; let him deliver him

    INT: on God let him deliver now

    • θεόν is never referred to anyone else, not even Jesus Christ, only Jehovah alone.
    • "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Jehovah God, and the Word was a god."
    • No man has seen Jehovah God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 22 Currently Logos.com has 126,496 resources available for purchase (over 1,700 have a price of $0.00 that includes Perseus Cellections). At the free level, Blue Letter Bible has a better set of resources than Logos (noticed a number of public domain commentaries in study resources). Caveat: Logos sophisticated search is better than Blue Letter Bible: e.g. visual filters for original language morphology codes can show range of verbal expression in Bibles with Reverse Interlinears (LEB & KJV are free).

    @Brother Rando July 21 I'm not asking you to never use Logos but try to enhance your research. Here's a small sample:

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 22 Samples remind me of those capabilities in Logos. My purchased Logos library includes most Blue Letter Bible text commentaries plus thousands more (includes many top commentatires), which can be quickly searched by Logos Bible Study software (notably better than Blue Letter Bible). Caveat is Logos purchases have caused my wallet to cry many times over many years.

    @Brother Rando July 22 Logos charges a fee in denying the teachings of Jesus Christ.

    Please explain how Logos offering price of $0.00 (free) that includes two English Bibles with Reverse Interlinear tagging is "denying the teachings of Jesus Christ."

    @Brother Rando July 22 "Cure the sick, raise up the dead, make lepers clean, expel demons. You received free, give free. Do not acquire gold or silver or copper for your money belts," (Matthew 10:8)

    Context of Matthrw 10:8 is Jewsih Rabbi Jesus sending out Jewish Disciples to Jewish people in Matthew 10:5-15 LEB =>

    Jesus sent out these twelve, instructing them saying, “Do not go on the road to the Gentiles, and do not enter into a city of the Samaritans, but go instead to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as you are going, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near!’ Heal those who are sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, expel demons. Freely you have received; freely give. Do not procure gold or silver or copper for your belts. Do not take a traveler’s bag for the road, or two tunics, or sandals, or a staff, for the worker is deserving of his provisions. And into whatever town or village you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there until you depart. And when you enter into the house, greet it. And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And whoever does not welcome you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you are going out of that house or that town. Truly I say to you, it will be more bearable for the region of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town! 

    To me @Brother Rando picked a verse to support @Brother Rando false accusation. Remember יהוה will judge false witnesses:

    Exodus 20:16 LEB => “You shall not testify against your neighbor with a false witness. 

    Deuteronomy 5:20 LEB => ‘And you shall not falsely bear evidence against your neighbor.

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 22 Could Abraham speaking אדֹנָ ( ʾḏō·nā ) to יהוה be the basis for Jewish tradition of saying Adonai (Lord) instead of יהוה in synagogue services ?

    @Brother Rando July 22 No, the Inspired Hebrew OT had God's Name in it. It was the Jews when that ripped God's Holy and Sacred Name out by replacing it with ( ʾḏō·nā ) Adonay. This title is a Superlative title similar to θεόν. Adonay gives references to the Supreme One, or Sovereign One, Almighty. Adonay and theon are titles not given to anyone else, only Jehovah God.

    Logos Bible search for lemma.h:יהוה OR lemma.h:אָדוֹן in LXX Swete has different colors showing Lord translation in Genesis 18:

    FWIW: Lexham Hebrew Bible introduction includes

    Technical Details

    Like most available the digital Hebrew Bibles, LHB is an edition of Codex Leningradensis (L), the oldest complete Hebrew Bible. The texts of each edition of L differ only slightly from each other in terms of how they read L or when they correct it. In terms of editorial changes, LHB falls somewhere between BHW (which only rarely corrects L) and BHS (which corrects L more often, but still with a relatively light hand). The most common changes found in LHB involve supplying missing sof passuqs (a punctuation mark at the end of each verse, where the end of the verse is also marked by the silluq accent on the final word, making such changes unambiguous), missing maqqefs (the hyphen that indicates that two words share one primary accent) or missing accents (in consultation with Dontan’s BHL and the critical apparatus of BHS).

    LHB includes lexical form (lemma) tags to assist in identifying each word, searching for all instances of the word and lexicon look-ups. The lexical forms (including the numbers used to distinguish homographs—different words that are spelled the same) mostly follow Koehler-Baumgartner-Stamm’s Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament (HALOT), the most detailed lexicon of Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic in the English language. Likewise, LHB has morphological tags identifying grammatical features like part of speech, person, number and gender. The verb stem assignments found in LHB align fairly closely to HALOT as well, making it easy to move back and forth between the LHB and HALOT.

    LHB is the first Hebrew database Logos has offered that includes ‘root’ form tagging, making it easy to search for words that are derived from the same root, or to find constructions where a verb and a noun that share the same root are used together. The root analysis also follows HALOT fairly closely, so that HALOT can be used to help understand the groupings. HALOT differs from BDB in that some words will have a noun as the ‘root’. For example, it is unlikely that the word for ‘stone’ derived from the verb meaning ‘to kill someone with stones,’ so, following HALOT, LHB has ‘stone’ as the ‘root’ form. There are many words where the root form is uncertain, and in these cases LHB lists multiple choices. There is also a nested hierarchy: Bethlehem comes from bayith and leḥem, while leḥem comes from laḥam. By tagging multiple roots, it is possible to search for all the words that derive from leḥem without grabbing everything that derives from laḥam, while searching on the root laḥam will be more inclusive.

     The Lexham Hebrew Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012).

    Curious if @Brother Rando can provide credible source(s) showing Hebrew OT sacred name replacement. Currently @Brother Rando comments read to me as personal opinion without merit.


    @Brother Rando July 22 But Notice Adonay is only applied to Jehovah alone. See scriptures on the right side.

    Genesis 23:6 LEB => And the Hittites answered Abraham and said to him, “Hear us, my lord אֲדֹנִ֗י , you are a mighty prince in our midst. Bury your dead in the choicest of our burial sites. None of us will withhold his burial site from you for burying your dead.”


    @Brother Rando July 22 θεόν is never referred to anyone else, not even Jesus Christ, only Jehovah alone

    Remember τὸν θεόν command for followers of יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus Christ to Be Believing in יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus Christ the same as Be Believing in τὸν θεόν ?

    πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν θεόν, καὶ εἰς ἐμὲ πιστεύετε (John 14:1 Greek spoken by יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus Christ ) ?

    Be Ye Believing in The אלהים God, also in Me Be Ye Believing (Ye is Olde English plural spelling of You)


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ -Remember τὸν θεόν command for followers of יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus Christ to Be Believing in יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus Christ the same as Be Believing in τὸν θεόν ?

    • “Behold, I send an Angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him?
    • And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.
    • As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One; listen to him!
    • For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,”

    τὸν θεόν is the one who sent the angel and stated:

    • Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice;
    • This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.
    • This is my Son, my Chosen One; listen to him!
    • This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,”

    The אלהים God, also in Me Be Ye Believing   אלהים is not in the Greek. However you have rejected Christ.

    Jesus Christ, stated, "Why do you call ME good? Nobody is good except  אלהים."


    How is that Jesus Christ is not the angel of Jehovah but God made up three Angels? Your theology is backwards.

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

  • @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus July 23 Remember τὸν θεόν command for followers of יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus Christ to Be Believing in יֵשׁוּעַ Jesus Christ the same as Be Believing in τὸν θεόν ?

    @Brother Rando July 24 “Behold, I send an Angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him?

    Remember every posting of Exodus 23:20-21 by @Brother Rando reminds me this Holy Angel servant will NOT forgive sin against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. In contrast, Jesus Christ has & will forgive sin against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. The Angel in Exodus 23:20-21 is a different being than Jesus Christ. Numerous postings of Exodus 23:20-21 by @Brother Rando is vain repetition, especially when NOT relevant. Scripture content & context provide no reason for me to consider changing my faith belief about One unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God.


    @Brother Rando July 24 The אלהים God, also in Me Be Ye Believing   אלהים is not in the Greek.

    Remember Jewish cultural context for the last supper discourses in John chapters 13 thru 16 is Jewish Rabbi Jesus teaching Jewish Disciples, who knew אלהים had usually been translated as θεός theos (God) in Greek Scriptures.

    Inflection spellings show grammatical role in Greek. In contrast, English spells subject and obect nouns the same. Possessive role in English can have " 's " added to noun spelling.


    @Brother Rando July 24 Jesus Christ, stated, "Why do you call ME good? Nobody is good except אלהים."

    To me, יהוה Salvation (Jesus) knew the deceitful motivation within a rich person (who refused to sell personal possessions & follow יהוה Salvation to learn more of Holy אלהים God) as described in Mark 10:17-31 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: אלהים as God) =>

    And as he was setting out on his way, one individual ran up and knelt down before him and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do so that I will inherit eternal life?”

    So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except אלהים God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.’ 

    And he said to him, “Teacher, all these I have observed from my youth.”

    And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing: Go, sell all that you have, and give the proceeds to the poor — and you will have treasure in heaven — and come, follow me.”

    But he looked gloomy at the statement and went away sorrowful, because he had many possessions. 

    And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How difficult it is for those who possess wealth to enter into the kingdom of אלהים God!”

    And the disciples were astounded at his words.

    But Jesus answered and said to them again, “Children, how difficult it is to enter into the kingdom of אלהים God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter into the kingdom ofאלהים God.”

    And they were very astounded, saying to one another, “And who can be saved?”

    Jesus looked at them and said, “With human beings it is impossible, but not with אלהים God. For all things are possible with אלהים God.”

    Peter began to say to him, “Behold, we have left everything and followed you.”

    Jesus said, “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields on account of me and on account of the gospel who will not receive a hundred times as much now in this time — houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and fields, together with persecutions — and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.” 

    If the rich man had responded to "Why do you call me good? No one is good except אלהים God alone." that he believed Jesus is Emmanuel "אלהים God with us", then the rich man would have answered his own question “Good Teacher, what must I do so that I will inherit eternal life?”

    Observe the rich man had obeyed the Ten Commandments about loving neighbor as self - Leviticus 19:18. However the rich man refused to truly experience One Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. The man Jesus was a human with a spiritual portion of One Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God inside so truly was Emmanuel "God with us" on earth.


    @Brother Rando July 24 How is that Jesus Christ is not the angel of Jehovah but God made up three Angels? Your theology is backwards.

    Thank you for trying to describe my theology. Eternal אלהים God created all Angels. My faith beleves Yeshua The Messiah (Jesus Christ) is an eternal voice in One plural unique Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. All created beings by eternal Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God have one voice. Unique & plural is One Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God simultaneously having three voices in One Spirit. At a personal level, I am aware of three sources for thoughts in my mind: me, spiritual adversary (always hates me), & Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God (always ❤️ Loves me).

    Remember our spiritual adversary is the father of lies, who craftily twists falsehoods with truth to deceive: goal is keeping/disrupting every human from truly ❤️ loving Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. My 🙏 prayers include release of @Brother Rando from the twisted trap (dungeon) of our spiritual adversary 🙏 while knowing @Brother Rando has free will choice what to ❤️ love most, which is expressed by actions and words.

    Remember my observation: humans are stubborn. I am powerless to change personal belief in someone else. Every human has free will choice what to ❤️ love most, which is expressed by actions and words. Only one narrow righteous way results in Holy God's ❤️ Loving presence: now & forever. I want to keep 🙏 worshipping & ❤️ loving Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God with all of me ❤️🙏 When I ponder the ❤️ Love of Holy יהוה Lord Jesus to brutally die in my place for the just penalty of my sins, 😭 tears fill my eyes. Resurrection from the dead gives me reason to Rejoice. When I agree (same speak) with Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God about my sins, Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God is faithful and just to forgive me along with cleansing me from unrighteousness. I cannot earn God's Grace nor do I deserve it. My free will choice is believing/receiving God's Grace & Shalom with desire to freely share with goal for all of us to Rejoice in Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God 😊


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother Rando
    Brother Rando Posts: 1,321

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ - Remember Jewish cultural context for the last supper discourses in John chapters 13 thru 16 is Jewish Rabbi Jesus teaching Jewish Disciples, who knew אלהים had usually been translated as θεός theos (God) in Greek Scriptures.

    Adonai and Elohim are non-superlative titles and often applied to angels and men and are not exclusive. Moses himself was called elohim or the Greek term theos.

     37  I know that you are Abraham’s offspring. But you are seeking to kill me, because my word makes no progress among you. 38  I speak the things I have seen while with my Father, but you do the things you have heard from your father.”

    You are on the wrong side @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Christ, your faith is antichristan.

    Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)

Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Who's Online 0