Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #7
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christ- Remember three light colors visibly combine as one: Bright Red light + Bright Green Light + Bright Blue Light => Bright White Light.@Brother Rando December 30 @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christhas failed to provide proof of his 'trinity doctrine' of three colors and therefore cannot be trusted as a reliable source. Certainly no 'trinity doctrine' was written in the first century or before that time.Trinitarians proclaim there is NOTHING MADE within the trinity. Yet the Bible states "God made him both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36) A scripture that exposes the trinity fraud. Notice Nothing in the scripture about three parts, colors, persons, making up God.
Once again @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christand @Pages have failed to Post their trinity doctrine. Their beliefs about the same trinity doctrine that they refuse to POST is polar opposites from one another.Therefore, I stand firmly what the Bible states and not the creeds or trinity doctrines that came about though human philosophies.
Since the trinity doctrine never refers to Jesus as Lord and Christ, trinitarians refuse that "God made him both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36)
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Personally have no idea about "trinity doctrine" (human theological) source(s) for @Brother Rando. Thus far @Brother Rando "trinitarian" assertions do NOT describe my faith beliefs (& leaves me wondering why @Brother Rando labels me as "trinitarian").
Logos Bible Study search in my Library for never NEAR "Jesus as Lord and Christ" found five results (all written by A.W. Tozer): e.g.
Just remember what the Bible says about the Person and the titles and the offices of Jesus:
“God hath made this same Jesus whom ye have crucified both Lord and Christ.” Jesus means Saviour, Lord means Sovereign, Christ means Anointed One. The Apostle, therefore, did not preach Jesus as Saviour — he preached to them Jesus as Lord and Christ and Saviour, never dividing His person or offices.
Remember, too, that Paul wrote to the Roman Christians:
“What saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
The Apostle did not say that “Thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Saviour.” He said, “Thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation; … for there is no difference between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:9–13)
Three times he calls Jesus Lord in these passages telling us how to be saved. He says that faith in the Lord Jesus plus confession of that faith to the world brings salvation to us!
God desires that we be honest with Him above everything else. Search the scriptures, read the New Testament, and if you see that I have given a germ of truth, then I urge you to do something about it. If you have been led to believe imperfectly in a divided Saviour, be glad that there is still time for you to do something about it!
A. W. Tozer, Tozer Speaks, Volume Two, vol. 5 (Chicago, IL: WingSpread, 2010), 31–32.
A personal ongoing valuable lesson learned from "How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth" is appreciating Biblical context. Every word has context in a sentence. Every sentence has context in a paragraph. Every paragraph has context in a larger unit (appropriate for the genre). Watchtower Society scripture support typically lacks Biblical context.
Acts 2:1-41 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in the same place. And suddenly a sound like a violent rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. And divided tongues like fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit gave them ability to speak out.
Now there were Jews residing in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the crowd gathered and was in confusion, because each one was hearing them speaking in his own language. And they were astounded and astonished, saying, “Behold, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how do we hear, each one of us, in our own native language?
Parthians and Medes and Elamites and those residing in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya toward Cyrene, and the Romans who were in town, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs — we hear them speaking in our own languages the great deeds of אלהים God!”
And all were amazed and greatly perplexed, saying to one another, “What can this mean?”
But others jeered and said, “They are full of sweet new wine!”
But Peter, standing with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them, “Judean men, and all those who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and pay attention to my words! For these men are not drunk, as you assume, because it is the third hour of the day. But this is what was spoken through the prophet Joel:
‘And it will be in the last days,’ אלהים God says, ‘I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, and your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams. And even on my male slaves and on my female slaves I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. And I will cause wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun will be changed to darkness and the moon to blood, before the great and glorious day of the יהוה Lord comes.
And it will be that everyone who calls upon the name of the יהוה Lord will be saved.’
“Israelite men, listen to these words! Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by אלהים God with deeds of power and wonders and signs that אלהים God did through him in your midst, just as you yourselves know — this man, delivered up by the determined plan and foreknowledge of אלהים God, you executed by nailing to a cross through the hand of lawless men. אלהים God raised him up, having brought to an end the pains of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. For David says with reference to him,
‘I saw the יהוה Lord before me continually, for he is at my right hand so that I will not be shaken. For this reason my heart was glad and my tongue rejoiced greatly, furthermore also my flesh will live in hope, because you will not abandon my soul in Hades, nor will you permit your Holy One to experience decay. You have made known to me the paths of life; you will fill me with gladness with your presence.’
“Men and brothers, it is possible to speak with confidence to you about the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us until this day. Therefore, because he was a prophet and knew that אלהים God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants on his throne, by having foreseen this, he spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he abandoned in Hades nor did his flesh experience decay. This Jesus אלהים God raised up, of which we all are witnesses. Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of אלהים God and having received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out this that you see and hear. For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says,
‘The יהוה Lord said to my יהוה Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’
Therefore let all the house of Israel know beyond a doubt, that God has made him both יהוה Lord and Christ — this Jesus whom you crucified!”
Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “What should we do, men and brothers?”
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children, and for all those who are far away, as many as the יהוה Lord our אלהים God calls to himself.”
And with many other words he solemnly urged and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this crooked generation!”
So those who accepted his message were baptized, and on that day about three thousand souls were added.
The House of Israel, devout Jews, in the Jewish Temple for Shavu'ot were obeying Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God so baptism in the name of Jesus Christ showed their belief in Holy יהוה Lord Jesus Christ with obedience.
Please remember the reason for exaltation. Philippians 2:5-11 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>
Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of אלהים God, did not consider * being equal with אלהים God something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming * in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled himself by becoming * obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross. Therefore also אלהים God exalted him and graciously granted * him the name above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and of those on earth and of those under the earth, and every tongue confess * that Jesus Christ is יהוה Lord, to the glory of אלהים God the Father.
* Koine Greek verb: Middle voice - reflexive interaction by/within subject & verbal action
What humility was expressed by eternal Righteous King יהוה Lord Jesus Christ to take on human flesh with birth in a messy place, the Good אלהים God Shepherd, who desires to truly remove stink of sin from every human. Only human requirement is believing יהוה Lord Jesus Christ was/is/will be a voice in Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God (with Abba יהוה Father & Ruach HaKodesh), who has been resurrected & wanting to be forgiven with righteous cleansing.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
ChristWhat humility was expressed by eternal Righteous King יהוה Lord Jesus Christ to take on human flesh with birth in a messy place, the Good אלהים God Shepherd, who desires to truly remove stink of sin from every human. Only human requirement is believing יהוה Lord Jesus Christ was/is/will be a voice in Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God (with Abba יהוה Father & Ruach HaKodesh), who has been resurrected & wanting to be forgiven with righteous cleansing.
Remember your call sign omits
Christso claiming "eternal Righteous King יהוה Lord Jesus Christ" is false propaganda and No ''trinity doctrine' states this at all. Matter of Fact the Bible states that 'God made Jesus Lord and Christ.'Since the trinity doctrine never refers to Jesus as Lord and Christ, trinitarians refuse that "God made him both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36)
Notice the meaning of the following names that all give witness to Jehovah as the one only true God? (John 17:3)
- Jesus renders Jehovah is Salvation
- Yeshua renders Yahweh is Salvation
- Joel renders Jehovah is God
- Elijah renders My God is Jehovah
SEE if you can find the Hebrew Tetragrammaton in these names: יהוה
If
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Happy New Year 😊
Thankful for @Brother Rando giving me reason to Rejoice 😊 (as @Brother Rando repeats previous assertions again that have already been discussed, which includes scripture snippets lacking Biblical context).
Remember Jan's January 2023 comment:
Thanks for calling out the ad hominems and name calling, and sorry I've been slow to respond. Please be more respectful with each other, and remember if you use ad hominems that signifies that there are no real arguments.
Happy new year to all!
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
ChristClaiming that the 'trinity doctrine' claims that the Lord Jesus Christ is in it, is simply untrue nor can you POST any 'trinity doctrine' that states your false claim. Refusing to Post your 'trinity doctrine' to doesn't add any creditable evidence and therefore you have utterly failed. Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God means Holy Jehovah Lord God
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One historic human form of trinity doctrine expression is Creeds and Confessions. Logos Bible Study search in 133 books with Creeds for Lord NEAR Jesus NEAR Christ finds results in 122 resources, which includes:
Logos Bible Study search for Lord NEAR Jesus NEAR Christ in the LEB finds 84 verses:
Discussion How does the Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה read in Your Translator? includes Google Translate issues: e.g. Hebrew to English showing a form used in some Bibles (while silently not showing forms in most Bibles, which is a form of deception).
Keep Smiling 😊
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The CHRISTENDOM Creed you are quoting is not the 'trinity doctrine' as you well know. It's just more demonic deception that was MADE UP in 381 CE.
Anyways @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christyou claimed Jesus wasn't begotten but that he is eternal. The fact remains, "God MADE him Lord and Christ" a (Acts 2:36) proves at one time he did not exist.Jesus Christ stated "And he answered and said, “Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female" (Matthew 19:4 LEB)
Now compare the same pattern to Jesus........ notice the process of making Jesus (Lord and Christ) First he was CREATED then "God MADE him Lord and Christ"
- Yahweh created me, the first of his ways, before his acts of old. (Proverbs 8:22 LEB)
- Therefore let all the house of Israel know beyond a doubt, that God has made him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified! (Acts 2:36 LEB)
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Questions in the New Year.
Will you provide a working definition of "Doctrine" as you use it?
"The 'trinity doctrine' has No Names listed nor mentions anything having to doing with the Lord Jesus Christ."
This particular 'trinity doctrine' with "No Names", etc. that you seem to be most familiar with; would you mind providing a copy of it for viewing in your reply? Thank you.
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@Brother Rando -"The 'trinity doctrine' has No Names listed nor mentions anything having to doing with the Lord Jesus Christ."
Choose any 'trinity doctrine' you so desire. Since you like to refer to catholic dogma but refuse to POST its 'trinity doctrine, why not POST the 'trinity doctrine' you claim to believe in?
Admitting that "God MADE (Jesus) Lord and Christ @ (Acts 2:36) nullifies all 'trinity doctrines' across the spectrum. Just POST the 'trinity doctrine' you proclaim to have the Names listed and I'll be happy to have the discussion.
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I had two very simple questions for you.
The first:
Will you provide a working definition of "Doctrine" as you use it?
The second:
This particular 'trinity doctrine' with "No Names", etc. that you seem to be most familiar with – would you mind providing a copy of it for viewing in your reply? Thank you.
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I had two very simple questions for you.
The first:
Will you provide a working definition of "Doctrine" as you use it?
@Brother Rando Your 'trinity doctrine' that you are refusing to POST.
The second:
This particular 'trinity doctrine' with "No Names", etc. that you seem to be most familiar with – would you mind providing a copy of it for viewing in your reply? Thank you.
@Brother Rando POST the 'trinity doctrine' you are defending by claiming it has Names in it. You only quote catholic dogma that came about in the 4th century. However, in the past, You and @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christclaimed not to be catholics, obviously you don't subscribe the catholic 'trinity doctrine' because of your refusals to POST it. Trinitarians refuse to POST their 'trinity doctrine' because they HIDE their RELIGION.- SO just POST you're 'trinity doctrine' you claim have the Names in it.
- Trinitarians tend to hide and masked their religion by refusing to POST their 'trinity doctrine'.
- It couldn't be the catholic religion since they burned Bibles and People who have translated them into English for the masses to read.
"Tyndale wanted to translate the Bible into English so that the common people could read God’s Word in their mother tongue. However, he encountered bitter opposition from the Catholic Church in England. The clergy wanted to keep the Bible in Latin, a language that most people could not understand. So in 1524, Tyndale went to Germany and set about translating the Christian Greek Scriptures there. He tried to publish his English translation in Cologne, Germany, in 1525 but was met with opposition. Only the so-called Cologne Fragment, a copy of the Gospel of Matthew up to the middle of chapter 22, is known to exist from that printing. Finally, he managed to get the complete Christian Greek Scriptures printed secretly in Worms, Germany, in 1526." Quote from JW.org
The Phrase @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christuses is not the 'trinity doctrine'. He never knew Jesus means 'Jehovah is Salvation' and he Never knew יהוה in English is Jehovah. Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God means Holy Jehovah Lord God
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@Brother Rando January 2 The CHRISTENDOM Creed you are quoting is not the 'trinity doctrine' as you well know.
Huh ? What is 'the trinity doctrine' for @Brother Rando ? Please post it.
More searching in my Logos library found:
Thus far @Brother Rando "you well know" does NOT describe my knowledge.
@Brother Rando January 3 The Phrase @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christuses is not the 'trinity doctrine'. He never knew Jesus means 'Jehovah is Salvation' and he Never knew יהוה in English is Jehovah. Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God means Holy Jehovah Lord GodAnother deceptive desription by @Brother Rando about my knowledge. Discussion How does the Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה read in Your Translator? includes Google Translate issues: e.g. Hebrew to English showing a form used in some Bibles (while silently not showing forms in most Bibles, which is a form of deception).
Sad to me is @Brother Rando truly not knowing/experiencing Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God so 🙏 Praying for @Brother Rando 🙏
My understanding of trinity = tri-unity = three plural voices unified in one Holy unique אלהים God, who alone is to be worshipped. Eternal Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God can have the mouth of an Archangel (messenger servant) give sound to words from Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God.
Remember Jesus shares " יהוה Righteousness of we "/ " יהוה Righteousness of us " name as it is written in Jeremiah 23:5-6 LEB =>
“Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’
To me, the English pronoun 'our' ('of us') in phrase ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’ expresses our human view of Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God.
Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God's point of view for the last two Hebrew words יהוה צדקנו is " יהוה Righteousness of we " (consistent with One Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God being uniquely unlike any created being by having more than one voice, a plural unique God as described in Deuteronomy 6:4
שמע ישראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה אחד
sh'-MA yis-ra-AYL a-do-NAI e-lo-HAY-nu a-do-NAI e-KHAD
Israel365 Bible transliteration shows Jews say "a-do-NAI" (Lord) for יהוה (disguise or epithat for use outside the Jewish Temple that attempts to avoid abusing Holy יהוה name as cursing יהוה is punished by death).
שמע = sh'-MA : Verb, Qal, Imperative, 2nd Person, Masculine, Singular : Hear & Obey
ישראל = yis-ra-AYL : Noun, Proper, Singular, Absolute : Israel (Singular Noun for a particular group of people)
יהוה = "a-do-NAI" (Lord) : Noun, Proper, Masculine, Singular, Absolute : the one who was & the one who is & the one who is to come
אלהינו = e-lo-HAY-nu : Noun, Common, Masculine, Plural, Construct (of) & Pronoun, Suffixed, 1st Person, Plural : God
יהוה = "a-do-NAI" (Lord) : Noun, Proper, Masculine, Singular, Absolute : the one who was & the one who is & the one who is to come
אחד = e-KHAD : numeral, cardinal, singular, absolute : one/only
Hebrew nouns have three spelling variations: singular, dual (eyes, ears, ...), & plural. What is plural in the One unique אלהים God ?
Keep Smiling 😊
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Again, the CHRISTENDOM Creed you copy and paste is not the 'trinity doctrine'. The man-made creed actually is a much later formula of religious opinions that refuses to include the 'trinity doctrine'.
Even the demons knew Jesus Christ to be "the Son of God" @ (Mark 3:11 LEB) I know the creeds and much of the opinion voids another part of the creed against itself. It's more Pentecostal than catholic since it preaches a oneness which is modalism. After all the 'trinity' was not born of the Bible but from Modalism.
It does admit what Jehovah Witnesses have already preached by stating what you have already rejected numerous of times.
- I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
- I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages.
Nothing here about three persons, three voices, or three colors being God. But rather One God, the Father.
- Notice unlike your call sign that omits (Lord and Christ) One Lord Jesus Christ Only Begotten Son of God which you falsely claim begotten is not in the Bible. Also the fact he was Born of the Father before all ages proves Jesus Christ was pre-eminent which means 'ahead of other sons'. Genesis 6:2, 4
Again this proves Jesus in pre-human existence is the Beginning of Creation. OF course we can state the obvious....
- God is not begotten God is eternal, has no beginning nor end.
- If God was pre-eminent as many trinitarians then their would be other אלהים
Jesus stated to his Father... You, the Only True God θεόν - John 17:3 - ( JW's believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth,) His name is יהוה which is Jehovah. https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&tl=en&text=%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%94&op=translate
- Jesus whom has his Father's Name in him is 'the Christ, the Son of the Living God" - Matthew 16:16 - (JW's believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages.)
Praise Jehovah - Hallelujah!
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Okay then, I'll provide you with the working substance of definition for the terms, Creed and Doctrine, as is universally accepted within the realm of sanity.
creed | krēd | noun
a system of Christian or other religious belief; a faith:
• (often the Creed) a formal statement of Christian beliefs, especially the Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed: (emphasis mine) (New Oxford American Dictionary)
Creed. A creed is a concise statement of Christian doctrine, typically produced by one of the councils of the early church. (emphasis mine) (Fahlbusch, E., Lochman, J. M., Mbiti, J., Pelikan, J., & Vischer, L. (1999–2003). Creed. In The encyclopedia of Christianity (Vol. 1, p. 727). Wm. B. Eerdmans; Brill.)
doctrine | ˈdäktrən | noun
a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group: the doctrine of predestination. (emphasis mine) (New Oxford American Dictionary)
DOCTRINE. Specifically, doctrine refers to Christian teaching and most specifically to Christian teaching about God, the gospel, and the comprehensive pattern of Christian truth. The word itself means “teaching” and generally refers to the accepted body of beliefs held by the Christian church universally and to those beliefs specific to individual denominations and congregations in particular. (emphasis mine) (Mohler, R. A., Jr. (2003). Doctrine. In C. Brand, C. Draper, A. England, S. Bond, E. R. Clendenen, & T. C. Butler (Eds.), Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary (p. 436). Holman Bible Publishers.)
Doctrine. (Gk. didaskalia). Act of teaching or that which is taught. (emphasis mine) (Hamstra, S., Jr. (1996). Doctrine. In Evangelical dictionary of biblical theology (electronic ed., p. 185). Baker Book House.)
Entry from a thesaurus:
creed | noun
system of belief, set of principles, statement of beliefs, profession of faith; doctrine, teaching, ideology, ethic, dogma, tenet, catechism, credo; beliefs, principles, canons, articles of faith, maxims, rules, laws. (emphasis mine) (Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus)
doctrine | noun
they rejected the doctrine of the Trinity: creed, credo, dogma, belief, set of beliefs, code of belief, conviction, teaching; tenet, maxim, article of faith, canon; principle, precept, notion, idea, ideology, theory, thesis. (emphasis mine) (Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus)
Myself, and @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus, have both provided numerous examples of trinity doctrine that includes both Lord and Christ referring to Jesus as well as the name Jesus, etc. And, @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus is not a trinitarian as he has stated now numerous times – he just understands how to do research in an honest manner – which is why he can say the following to you.
Huh ? What is 'the trinity doctrine' for @Brother Rando ? Please post it.
More searching in my Logos library found:
So, please post your example of the trinity doctrine document that has No Names in it – the one you keep mentioning over and over; so that, it can be viewed and discussed.
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Myself, and @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus, have both provided numerous examples of trinity doctrine that includes both Lord and Christ referring to Jesus as well as the name Jesus, etc. And, @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus is not a trinitarian as he has stated now numerous times – he just understands how to do research in an honest manner – which is why he can say the following to you.
No you haven't. Same with the catholic epistles that trinitarians claimed to exist in the 4th century. Wow... all of sudden the 4th Century has all those Non-Biblical teachings?? A little late don't you think to claim their scriptural? What scripture states 'trinity'? NONE! You can post nonsense but it won't change.
- The catholic epistles are: Naming The word catholic in the term catholic epistles has been a convention dating from the 4th century.
Ever hear of the word hear say? (Heresy) The 'trinity doctrine' is heresy of 3 in 1 formula depending on the trinitarian cult... catholic is the father of the lie while others piece - mealed their own trinity from it. Baptists are more like Pentecostals with a oneness flavor. Others are hybrids of a trinity and modalistic view such as yourself claim God/man when Numbers 23:19 states the opposite. Still others claim God is multi-natured when Jesus stated God is SPIRIT. (John 4:24)
I stand by what I stated at the OPENING...
Since the trinity doctrine never refers to Jesus as Lord and Christ, trinitarians refuse that "God made him both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36)
Notice the meaning of the following names that all give witness to Jehovah as the one only true God? (John 17:3)
- Jesus renders Jehovah is Salvation
- Yeshua renders Yahweh is Salvation
- Joel renders Jehovah is God
- Elijah renders My God is Jehovah
SEE if you can find the Hebrew Tetragrammaton in these names: יהוה
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None of these ramblings throughout your post have anything to do with my previous reply regarding the working definition of the terms Creed or Doctrine; nor, does it state whether you agree with those dictionary definitions.
As a reminder, the focus of our discussion is predicated on whether or not Lord and Christ are used referring to Jesus, along with the name Jesus being used within trinity doctrine.
You may remember, it is your contention that the above is not at all the case and refer to a specific, though yet to be produced for viewing and discussion, trinity doctrine having No Names.
Regarding the no names aspect – my best guess, a summary statement of what the doctrine is about is being then considered as a comprehensive teaching of the doctrine. See this post.
Nevertheless, the only defense you have provided, so far, for your assertions, are more assertions and a continual denial of the mounting evidence presented against your view. One only needs to read through this thread to ascertain that is so.
So, at this point I will recap what has came before. These following two assertions are the focus of disagreement. You stated:
"Since the trinity doctrine never refers to Jesus as Lord and Christ, trinitarians refuse that "God made him both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36)"
And
"The 'trinity doctrine' has No Names listed nor mentions anything having to doing with the Lord Jesus Christ."
First, I'll start with my previous post – what Creed and Doctrine entail.
creed | krēd | noun
a system of Christian or other religious belief; a faith:
• (often the Creed) a formal statement of Christian beliefs, especially the Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed: (emphasis mine) (New Oxford American Dictionary)
Creed. A creed is a concise statement of Christian doctrine, typically produced by one of the councils of the early church. (emphasis mine) (Fahlbusch, E., Lochman, J. M., Mbiti, J., Pelikan, J., & Vischer, L. (1999–2003). Creed. In The encyclopedia of Christianity (Vol. 1, p. 727). Wm. B. Eerdmans; Brill.)
doctrine | ˈdäktrən | noun
a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group: the doctrine of predestination. (emphasis mine) (New Oxford American Dictionary)
DOCTRINE. Specifically, doctrine refers to Christian teaching and most specifically to Christian teaching about God, the gospel, and the comprehensive pattern of Christian truth. The word itself means “teaching” and generally refers to the accepted body of beliefs held by the Christian church universally and to those beliefs specific to individual denominations and congregations in particular. (emphasis mine) (Mohler, R. A., Jr. (2003). Doctrine. In C. Brand, C. Draper, A. England, S. Bond, E. R. Clendenen, & T. C. Butler (Eds.), Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary (p. 436). Holman Bible Publishers.)
Doctrine. (Gk. didaskalia). Act of teaching or that which is taught. (emphasis mine) (Hamstra, S., Jr. (1996). Doctrine. In Evangelical dictionary of biblical theology (electronic ed., p. 185). Baker Book House.)
Entry from a thesaurus:
creed | noun
system of belief, set of principles, statement of beliefs, profession of faith; doctrine, teaching, ideology, ethic, dogma, tenet, catechism, credo; beliefs, principles, canons, articles of faith, maxims, rules, laws. (emphasis mine) (Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus)
doctrine | noun
they rejected the doctrine of the Trinity: creed, credo, dogma, belief, set of beliefs, code of belief, conviction, teaching; tenet, maxim, article of faith, canon; principle, precept, notion, idea, ideology, theory, thesis. (emphasis mine) (Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus)
Second, I'll now proceed to the beginning of our discussion and move forward through it.
"For our God, Jesus Christ, now that He is with the Father, is all the more revealed [in His glory]." (Ignatius of Antioch. (1885). The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans. In A. Roberts, J. Donaldson, & A. C. Coxe (Eds.), The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (Vol. 1, pp. 74–75). Christian Literature Company.)
"And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made."
"We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man,"
"For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man."
"We believe that Jesus Christ according to His divine nature is the only begotten Son of God, begotten from eternity, not made, nor created" (Historic Creeds and Confessions (electronic ed.). (1997). Lexham Press.)
"(1) the related issues of the deity of Christ (and the Holy Spirit) and the implications of that teaching for the doctrine of the triune nature of God and (2) the manner in which the divine and human natures are to be related to each other and to the one person of Christ." (Reymond, R. L. (2003). Jesus, Divine Messiah: The New and Old Testament Witness (pp. 9–10). Christian Focus Publications.)
"Justin is emphatic on the distinction between being begotten and being created. Christ is not “a kind of second God created by God the Father.”" (Hill, C. E. (2014). Paradox Pushers and Persecutors? In M. F. Bird (Ed.), How God Became Jesus: The Real Origins of Belief in Jesus’ Divine Nature—A Response to Bart Ehrman (p. 186). Zondervan.)
"Now that we have had presented to us this preliminary view of existences, it may be opportune to examine the passage before us. It is said, then, by Peter to the Jews, “Him God made Lord and Christ, this Jesus Whom ye crucified,” while on our part it is said that it is not pious to refer the word “made” to the Divine Nature of the Only-begotten, but that it is to be referred to that “form of a servant,” which came into being by the Incarnation, in the due time of His appearing in the flesh; and, on the other hand, those who press the phrase the contrary way say that in the word “made” the Apostle indicates the pretemporal generation of the Son." (Schaff, Philip and Henry Wace, eds., Gregory of Nyssa: Dogmatic Treatises, etc. NPNF-2 V. Accordance electronic edition, version 3.3. 14 vols. New York: Christian Literature Publishing, 1890.)
"He further explains this yet more clearly by his words in what follows, “being exalted by the right hand of God.” Who then was “exalted”? He that was lowly, or he that was the highest? and what else is the lowly but the humanity? what else is the highest but the divinity? Surely, God needs not to be exalted, seeing that he is the highest. It follows, then, that the apostle’s meaning is that the humanity was exalted: and its exaltation was effected by its becoming Lord and Christ. And this took place after the passion. It is not therefore the pretemporal existence of the Lord that the apostle indicates by the word made but that change of the lowly to the lofty that was effected “by the right hand of God.”" (Martin, Francis and Evan Smith, eds., Acts. ACCS 5. ICCS/Accordance electronic edition, version 2.8. Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2006.)
"And again, ‘This is known to any one who even in a small degree applies his mind to the meaning of the Apostle’s words, that he is not setting forth to us the mode of the Divine existence, but is introducing the terms which belong to the Incarnation; for he says, Him God made Lord and Christ, this Jesus Whom ye crucified, evidently laying stress by the demonstrative word on that in Him which was human and was seen by all.’" (Schaff, Philip and Henry Wace, eds., Gregory of Nyssa: Dogmatic Treatises, etc. NPNF-2 V. Accordance electronic edition, version 3.3. 14 vols. New York: Christian Literature Publishing, 1890.)
(emphasis mine for the above)
In this thread you have also made this following claim, "the trinity doctrine never claims Jesus to be God". Which, is not the case if you read the above; and, is in error equally as much as the first two mentioned assertions in this post.
Even your beloved Watch Tower website jw.org recognizes that trinitarian doctrine is concerned with Jesus being God; hence, one of the many articles regarding this is titled, "Is Jesus God" – which the starting phrase is: "MANY people view the Trinity as “the central doctrine of the Christian religion.”" – they seem to believe the two are related.
You, yourself, published a thread on Oct. 2021 which you titled "Is Jesus God" – who is it that believes Jesus is God? Would trinitarian be your immediate response?
In summary, the case weighs heavily against your position of assertion on this matter.
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@Pages "We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man,"
"For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man."
"We believe that Jesus Christ according to His divine nature is the only begotten Son of God, begotten from eternity, not made, nor created" (Historic Creeds and Confessions (electronic ed.). (1997). Lexham Press.)
No such ''trinity doctrine' states these things.... Not a single 'trinity doctrine' even Names Jesus was MADE (Lord and Christ) but the Bible does @ (Acts 2:36 LEB) that trinitarians deny as you just did.
A Few Scriptures that nullify your Opinion about Modalism
- God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of humankind (man) (Numbers 23:19 LEB)
- First point - (God is not a man)
- Second point - (God is not a Son of Man)
Jesus Christ under the inspiration of Holy Spirit announced God is SPIRIT @ (John 4:24 LEB) Notice this teaching is absent from any and all 'trinity doctrines'. Of course you outright denies Jesus words that God is SPIRIT
The Bible teaches he was begotten from eternity, made, created ---
- (Proverbs 8:22 LEB) Created
- (Acts 2:36 LEB) Made
- (Daniel 7:13 LEB) someone like a Son of Man (humankind) gained access to the Ancient of Days
Even the creed admits what Jehovah Witnesses have already preached by stating what you rejected numerous of times.
- I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
- I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus January 3 More searching in my Logos library found:
@Brother Rando January 3 Again, the CHRISTENDOM Creed you copy and paste is not the 'trinity doctrine'. ... It does admit what Jehovah Witnesses have already preached by stating what you have already rejected numerous of times.
@Brother Rando January 3 * I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
@Brother Rando January 3 * I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages.
@Brother Rando January 3 Nothing here about three persons, three voices, or three colors being God. But rather One God, the Father.
Thank you for sharing what * words your faith filter saw in the Nicene Creed excerpt. My eyes see @Brother Rando quoting left out the 'trinity doctrine" words declaring deity of Lord Jesus Christ & the Holy Spirit. Hence @Brother Rando "Nothing here ..." assertion is factually false.
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God; begotten, not made, of one substance with the Father. By whom all things are made.…
And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. Who together with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified.
Hugh Ross, Beyond the Cosmos: What Recent Discoveries in Astrophysics Reveal about the Glory and Love of God (Colorado Springs, Colo.: NavPress, 1999), 98.
🙏 Praying for the eyes of @Brother Rando to be opened to see what is plural in the One Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God 🙏
Keep Smiling 😊
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Even the creed admits what Jehovah Witnesses have already preached by stating what you rejected numerous of times.
- I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
- I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
CHRISTHoly יהוה Lord אלהים God's point of view for the last two Hebrew words יהוה צדקנו is " יהוה Righteousness of we " (consistent with One Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God being uniquely unlike any created being by having more than one voice, a plural unique God as described in Deuteronomy 6:4
Yes correct that is why Jesus is not listed, יהוה צדקנו means Jehovah was Right
Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God means Holy Jehovah Lord God
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The Nicene Creed in Greek has three sentences. & Amen.
Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα ΘΕΟΝ ΠΑΤΕΡΑ παντοκράτορα, ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς, ὁρατῶν τε πάντων καὶ ἀοράτων.
Καὶ εἰς ἕνα κύριον ἸΗΣΟΥΝ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΝ, τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων, φῶς ἐκ φωτός, θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα, οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ πατρί· διʼ οὔ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο· τὸν διʼ ἡμᾶς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους καὶ διὰ τὴν ἡμετέραν σωτηρίαν κατελθόντα ἐκ τῶν οὐρανῶν καὶ σαρκωθέντα ἐκ πνεύματος ἁγίου καὶ Μαρίας τῆς παρθένου καὶ ἐνανθρωπήσαντα, σταυρωθέντα τε ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου, καὶ παθόντα καὶ ταφέντα, καὶ ἀναστάντα τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ κατὰ τὰς γραφάς, καὶ ἀνελθόντα εἰς τοὺς οὐρανούς, καὶ καθεζόμενον ἐκ δεξιῶν τοῦ πατρός, καὶ πάλιν ἐρχόμενον μετὰ δόξης κρῖναι ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς· οὗ τῆς βασιλείας οὐκ ἔσται τέλος.
Καὶ εἰς τὸ ΠΝΕΥΜΑ ΤΟ ἌΓΙΟΝ, τὸ κύριον, (καὶ) τὸ ζωοποιόν, τὸ ἐκ τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκπορευόμενον, τὸ σὺν πατρὶ καὶ ὑιῷ συν προσκυνούμενον καὶ συνδοξαζόμενον, τὸ λαλῆσαν διὰ τῶν προφητῶν· εἰς μίαν, ἁγίαν, καθολικὴν καὶ ἀποστολικὴν ἐκκλησίαν· ὁμολογοῦμεν ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν· προσδοκῶμεν ἀνάστασιν νεκρῶν, καὶ ζωὴν τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰώνος. Ἀμήν.
Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom, with a History and Critical Notes: The Greek and Latin Creeds, with Translations, vol. 2 (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1890), 57–58.
The Nicene Creed in Latin has six sentences. & Amen.
Credimus in unum DEUM PATREM omnipotentem; factorem cœli et terrœ, visibilium omnium et invisibilium.
Et in unum Dominum JESUM CHRISTUM, Filium Dei [unigenitum], natum ex Patre ante omnia sœcula [Lumen de Lumine], Deum verum de Deo vero, natum [genitum], non factum, consubstantialem Patri; per quem omnia facta sunt; qui propter nos homines et [propter] salutem nostram descendit de cœlis et incarnatus est de Spiritu Sancto ex Maria virgine et humanatus [homo factus] est; et crucifixus est pro nobis sub Pontio Pilato [passus] et sepultus est; et resurrexit tertia die [secundum scripturas]; ascendit in cœlum [cœlos], sedet ad dexteram Patris; iterum venturus, cum gloria, judicare vivos et mortuos; cujus regni non erit finis.
Et in SPIRITUM SANCTUM, Dominum et vivificantem [vivificatorem], ex Patre procedentem, cum Patre et Filio adorandum et conglorificandum, qui locutus est per sanctos prophetas. Et unam, sanctam, catholicam et apostolicam ecclesiam. Confitemur unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. Expectamus resurrectionem mortuorum et vitam futuri sæculi. Amen.
Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom, with a History and Critical Notes: The Greek and Latin Creeds, with Translations, vol. 2 (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1890), 57-58.
שמע ישראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה אחד
הנה ימים באים נאם-יהוה והקמתי לדוד צמח צדיק ומלך מלך והשכיל ועשה משפט וצדקה בארץ בימיו תושע יהודה וישראל ישכן לבטח וזה-שמו אשר-יקראו יהוה צדקנו
Google Translate of יהוה can have different contextual results:
According to Google Translate of יהוה , who is called by Jehovah name ?
Keep Smiling 😊
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Nothing here about the 'trinity doctrine' Nor a single scripture about one of the three colors being God. Jesus is not listed in any 'trinity doctrine'. The phrase @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
CHRISTlisted יהוה צדקנו means ====> Jehovah was Right <====
Also your denial of the following two phrases in the creed are for ALL to SEE that read:
- I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
- I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (1Peter 1:3 LEB) The 'our' is never 'we'. Another trinitarian bites the dust. Nah, nah nah nah, hey hey heyyyy.... Good - Bye!
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus January 5 The Nicene Creed in Greek has three sentences. & Amen.
Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα ΘΕΟΝ ΠΑΤΕΡΑ παντοκράτορα, ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς, ὁρατῶν τε πάντων καὶ ἀοράτων.
Καὶ εἰς ἕνα κύριον ἸΗΣΟΥΝ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΝ, τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων, φῶς ἐκ φωτός, θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα, οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ πατρί· διʼ οὔ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο· τὸν διʼ ἡμᾶς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους καὶ διὰ τὴν ἡμετέραν σωτηρίαν κατελθόντα ἐκ τῶν οὐρανῶν καὶ σαρκωθέντα ἐκ πνεύματος ἁγίου καὶ Μαρίας τῆς παρθένου καὶ ἐνανθρωπήσαντα, σταυρωθέντα τε ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου, καὶ παθόντα καὶ ταφέντα, καὶ ἀναστάντα τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ κατὰ τὰς γραφάς, καὶ ἀνελθόντα εἰς τοὺς οὐρανούς, καὶ καθεζόμενον ἐκ δεξιῶν τοῦ πατρός, καὶ πάλιν ἐρχόμενον μετὰ δόξης κρῖναι ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς· οὗ τῆς βασιλείας οὐκ ἔσται τέλος.
Καὶ εἰς τὸ ΠΝΕΥΜΑ ΤΟ ἌΓΙΟΝ, τὸ κύριον, (καὶ) τὸ ζωοποιόν, τὸ ἐκ τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκπορευόμενον, τὸ σὺν πατρὶ καὶ ὑιῷ συν προσκυνούμενον καὶ συνδοξαζόμενον, τὸ λαλῆσαν διὰ τῶν προφητῶν· εἰς μίαν, ἁγίαν, καθολικὴν καὶ ἀποστολικὴν ἐκκλησίαν· ὁμολογοῦμεν ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν· προσδοκῶμεν ἀνάστασιν νεκρῶν, καὶ ζωὴν τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰώνος. Ἀμήν.
Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom, with a History and Critical Notes: The Greek and Latin Creeds, with Translations, vol. 2 (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1890), 57–58.
@Brother Rando January 5 Nothing here about the 'trinity doctrine' Nor a single scripture about one of the three colors being God. Jesus is not listed in any 'trinity doctrine'.
Thank you for expressing personal faith belief. Puzzled by @Brother Rando snippet quoting of the Nicene Creed second sentence beginning that includes 'one Lord JESUS CHRIST" (simply disagrees with @Brother Rando assertion "Jesus is not listed in any 'trinity doctrine'.")
@Brother Rando January 5 * I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
First sentence of the Nicene Creed is believable for @Brother Rando
@Brother Rando January 5 * I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages.
Nicene Creed second sentence beginning is believable to @Brother Rando albeit the words "Lord Jesus Christ" has "Sir Michael the Archangel" interpretation by @Brother Rando (consistent with untrustworthy human Watchtower Society teaching).
Google Translate shows 'trinity doctrine' words that @Brother Rando has chosen NOT to believe (& leave out from quoting):
And to one Lord JESUS CHRIST, the only-begotten Son of God, who was begotten of the Father before all ages, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one with the Father; for not all things were made; for us men and for our salvation, who came down from heaven and became incarnate from the Holy Spirit and Mary the Virgin and became human, crucified for us on Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried, and rose on the third day according to the scriptures, and ascended to the heavens, and sitting at the right hand of the Father, and coming again with glory to judge the living and the dead; of whose kingdom there is no end.
And to the HOLY SPIRIT, the master, (and) the giver of life, the one proceeding from the father, the same father and son together worshiping and glorifying, they sang it through the prophets; in one, holy, universal and apostolic church; we confess one baptism for the remission of sins; we expect the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the age to come. Amen.
Keep Smiling 😊
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Remembering when @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
CHRISTrejected Jesus was Only Begotten. But claimed God was Begotten and not eternal. Also the creeds were not written in Hebrew, Greek, or English, but in Latin also known as Lucifer's Language. The English translation was not know until the 16 century.The phrase @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
CHRISTlisted יהוה צדקנו means ====> Jehovah was Right <====
Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God means Holy Jehovah Lord God not found in the creed.
Remember @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
CHRISTdoes not Believe in one God, the Father Almighty the maker of the heavens and earth. But in three colors that make up God. Also, @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus omits and leaves out that 'God MADE Jesus Lord and Christ' (Acts 2:36) in his slanderous callsign.Jehovah Witnesses are true members of the Way and listen and obey the angel that has God's Name יהוה in him.
- I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
- I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages.
Even @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus
Christadmits that Elijah means 'My God Is Jehovah' but then lies and said he never did. Here's his quote:https://christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/22678/#Comment_22678
452 אֵלִיָּה, אֵלִיָּהוּ [ʾEliyah, ʾEliyahuw /ay·lee·yaw/] n pr m. From 410 and 3050; GK 488 and 489; 71 occurrences; AV translates as “Elijah” 69 times, and “Eliah” twice. 1 the great prophet of the reign of Ahab. 2 Benjamite son of Jeroham. 3 a son of Elam with foreign wife during exile. 4 a son of Harim, and priest, with foreign wife during exile. Additional Information: Elijah or Eliah = “my God is Jehovah” or “Yah(u) is God”
Caught you by the tail. Now you have a horn missing.... 😁
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First assertion:
"No such ''trinity doctrine' states these things...."
Followed by second assertion:
"Not a single 'trinity doctrine' even Names Jesus was MADE (Lord and Christ) but the Bible does @ (Acts 2:36 LEB) that trinitarians deny as you just did."
But, no documentation is given in support of those claims, i.e., the supposed trinity doctrine that you specifically reference. Copy and paste?
I want, once again, to direct your attention to the sole object of our discussion; that being, the use of Lord and Christ for Jesus within trinity doctrine as well as the name Jesus – nothing more, nothing less. I mention this due to your inclination to veer off into other areas that are not explicitly within the parameters of discussion referenced just prior.
Demonstrating the exact opposite from your quoted statement above has been the ample testament of trinity doctrine documents supplied for your viewing throughout these exchanges by myself and @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus as well.
For example, in this recent @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus post is a screenshot of Chapter 9 titled "Extra-Dimensionality and God's Triunity" having the subheading "Creedal Statements of the Trinity Doctrine" where the first paragraph ends with this statement, "The following excerpt focuses on the Trinity:"; which then goes on to quote the Nicene Creed.
What is it that you can not comprehend from these explicit English statements which are diametrically opposed to your stated contention?
