Deceitful practices of False Witnesses

TruthTruth Posts: 395
edited November 14 in Apologetics
  1. Deceitful anonymous distorted Bible translation not accepted by scholars
  2. Try to hook troubled people into their cult with feelings
  3. Are taught to avoid technicalities of Scripture but to ignore and plaster the listener with distractions
  4. Spout authoritarian dictates of Watchtower and tracts. IF you suggest other trusted sources, you are met blank looks and are ignored. JW's have a lot of fear of their authoritarian cult and really have no choice.
  5. JW's don't convert people to Christ or Jehovah, but to the Watchtower.
  6. JW's do not worship Jesus. To them he is a sort of angel-demi-god, superhuman.
  7. JW's must not think for themselves but must spout the Watchtower line. Or get disfellowshipped.


Note how these deceitful practices are employed by JW's in these forums.

Sad. Pray for them.

Post edited by Truth on

Comments

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 477

    A closer look at Matthew 28:19….


    The scripture at Matthew 28:19 today doesn’t read as it did in the first century. Matthew who was born of the Levi tribe, first wrote his book in his native tongue, (Hebrew). So let’s visit the Actual Scripture. “Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations in MY Name,” (Shem Tov Hebrew Matthew 28:19)  Note: Scripture is under scrutiny and research for possible correction due to new findings from sources familiar with the deception.

    The trinity doctrine never acknowledges Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” (2 John 7) The foreign doctrine removes Jesus Christ by omission and teaches a different Jesus as it promotes a false baptism by replacing Christ with its own doctrine.

    Notice this admission. The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263: The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.

    Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger: 

    • He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19. “The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome.” — Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) Introduction to Christianity: 1968 edition, pp. 82, 83.

    That's right, an admission that the baptism text came from the Pagan City of Rome. None of the Apostles baptized anyone in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit in the first century. NONE!

    Scripture also says that by the authority of Jesus, people would be told to turn to God and change the way they think and act so that their sins will be forgiven. This would be told to people from all nations, beginning in the city of Jerusalem. ‘…and on the basis of his Name, repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preached in all the nations—starting out from Jerusalem.’ (Luke 24:46-47)

    Get more details.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 477
    edited November 28

    The OP thinks the true Baptism of Jesus Christ is Deceitful. SHould we learn to him or the Bible? You decide.


    So how were Christians baptized?

    • “With that he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they requested him to stay for some days.” (Acts 10:48)
    • Peter said to them: “Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the free gift of the holy spirit.” (Acts 2:38)
    • “But when they believed Philip, who was declaring the good news of the Kingdom of God and of the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were getting baptized.” (Acts 8:12)
    • “Or do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?” (Romans 6:3)
    • “On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 19:5)
    • Allow scripture to interpret scripture. “Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations in MY Name, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” (Shem Tov Hebrew Matthew 28:19)
    • Notice this scripture? “one Lord, one faith, one baptism;” (Ephesians 4:5)
    • "Whatever it is that you do in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, thanking God the Father through him." (Colossians 3:17)

    Not a single verse mentioned the catholic literature of Father, Son or Holy spirit throughout the entire Book of Acts. When you add the surrounding scriptures, the one before and the one after verse 19, it all fits rather nicely and flows without interruption:

    “Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given ME in heaven and on the earth. Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations in MY Name, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Hebrew Mat 28:18-20)

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,575

    @BroRando posted:

    Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger: 

    He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of .

    According to the search I forum conducted, you've now included the identical quotation from Cardinal Ratzinger in five different posts: the one to which I'm currently responding, THIS ONE, THIS ONE, THIS ONE, and THIS ONE.

    Can you offer any guidance as to how many more appearances the cardinal's words will make in your posts before you'll decide that it's served the purpose(s) for which you first introduced it? FWIW, I no longer mined any new value from the quotation after its second appearance in your posts.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 477
    edited November 28

    I noticed a trinitarians follows pattern If the quotes come from within the Vatican then they treat as inspired but they tend to only pick an choose what they want and no moral compass for passing up an oppoeruity to denounce Christ. But that is what the Anti-Christs does. Denies the exisitence of Christ.

    • There was only one Chrisitan Baptism... that was in the Name of Jesus Christ
    • Christ was revmoved in Mark 1:34 but the Greek show's Christ was actually in the scripture
    • The confession from The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263: The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.
  • TruthTruth Posts: 395
    edited November 28

    @Bill_Coley You have met your equal.

    @BroRando

    You are not alone. Here is a documentary to which you might well relate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXcNaaYw20c

    Here is an article which you might find informative and helpful:

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 477

    One must take the following scriptures into account. When I preach the Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ. The following scriptures are rejcted by trinitarians.

    So how were Christians baptized?

    • “With that he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they requested him to stay for some days.” (Acts 10:48)
    • Peter said to them: “Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the free gift of the holy spirit.” (Acts 2:38)
    • “But when they believed Philip, who was declaring the good news of the Kingdom of God and of the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were getting baptized.” (Acts 8:12)
    • “Or do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?” (Romans 6:3)
    • “On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 19:5)
    • Allow scripture to interpret scripture. “Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations in MY Name, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” (Shem Tov Hebrew Matthew 28:19)
    • Notice this scripture? “one Lord, one faith, one baptism;” (Ephesians 4:5)
    • "Whatever it is that you do in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, thanking God the Father through him." (Colossians 3:17)

    When people become Jehovah’s Witnesses, they are baptized in the name of Jesus. False Religion teaches a false gospel of Baptism, one the rejects the name of Jesus. For instance, how many Cathloics been baptized in the name Jesus? None.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 395
    What have JW's got against Blacks?

    it was explained in a 1904 Watchtower that in the New System the skin of black people could turn white.

    Watchtower 1900 Apr 15 p.122  "'It too often happens that, while the negro rapidly masters the rules and regulations of the Christian religion, he still continues to be gross, immoral, and deceitful.

    Watchtower 1901 Aug 15 pp.264-266 'I regret to say that, with a few - very rare - exceptions, those native African pastors, teachers, and catechists whom I have met have been all, more or less, bad men. They attempted to veil an unbridled immorality with an unblushing hypocrisy and a profane display of mouth-religion which, to an honest mind, seemed even more disgusting than the immorality itself. While it was apparent that not one particle of true religion had made its way into their gross minds, it was also evident that the spirit of sturdy manliness which was present in their savage forefathers found no place in their false, cowardly natures."

    Watchtower 1902 July 15 The Negro Not A Beast pp. 215-216. "“While it is true that the white race exhibits some qualities of superiority over any other, we are to remember that there are wide differences in the same Caucasian (Semitic and Aryan) family; and also we should remember that some of the qualities which have given this branch of the human family its preeminence in the world are not such as can be pointed to as in all respects admirable. ... The secret of the greater intelligence and aptitude of the Caucasian undoubtedly in great measure is to be attributed to the commingling of blood amongst its various branches; and this was evidently forced in large measure by circumstances under divine control.” ... Noah declared, prophetically, that Ham’s characteristics which had led him to unseemly conduct disrespectful to his father, would be found cropping out later, inherited by his son, and prophetically he foretold that this degeneracy would mark the posterity of Canaan, degrading him, making him servile. We are not able to determine to a certainty that the sons of Ham and Canaan are the negroes; but we consider that general view as probable as any other.

    Much more here:

    https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/black-skin.php

  • TruthTruth Posts: 395

    Why are you afraid to answer what JW's have against Blacks in person and in their official writings?

    Are you ashamed of your Watchtower position?



    More help here:

    https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/9-things-you-should-know-about-jehovahs-witnesses/

  • TruthTruth Posts: 395
    edited November 28

    Neither you nor your Watchtower are credible sources. Your JW "Popes" prophecies have well-documented 100% failure rate.

    Yet, we see the JW official position against blacks from the Watchtower above--revealing yet more JW falsehoods. To defend such a position is repulsive and reprehensible.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 395
    edited November 28

    You're simply a white supremacists and should be reported. Does seeing people of color offend you?

    I wish what you said didn't hurt so bad. But it does.

    Forgiving is hard because I know what hatred for my skin color feels like. Yes, I forgive you. You don't know what you or your Watchtower are doing.

    I do love the skin color of my mother, father, and children, as much as that of any person with white skin.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 395
    edited November 28

    Wish I could believe even just one thing you said. Sadly, I can not.

    Even the skin color of my mother, father, and children you and your Watchtower mock.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 395

    I am not clicking your links. You don't have to click mine.


    The official position of your Watchtower is pasted above. There are many more such Watchtower statements, but what I included was already more than I could stomach.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,575
    edited November 28


    @Truth posted:

    What have JW's got against Blacks?

    it was explained in a 1904 Watchtower that in the New System the skin of black people could turn white.

    In defense of your present tense question, "What've JWs got against Blacks?" you chose to reference 117-, 120-, and 121 year-old documents, and to provide a link to a page on which most of the documents are 70+ years old, and the information offered from the last 60 years - only one item of which is from this century - advises caution and consideration before entering interracial marriage, a relationship to which said information says Scripture does not object (such was the well-meaning but sinful attitude of the Midwestern American culture in which I was raised).

    So 120 year-old bigotry plus dated, sinful hesitance about interracial marriage lead you to ask what JWs have against blacks? Do you also ask what do white, non-JW, Christians in the modern American south have against blacks? As the author Robert P. Jones says at the end of THIS ESSAY about (white person) Christianity and racism,

    "The plain testimony of history is that, alongside what good we white Christians have done, white Christian theology and institutions have also declared the blessings of God on the enslavement of millions of African Americans, the construction of a brutal system of racial segregation enforced by law and lynchings, the resistance to the civil rights movement and the mass incarceration of millions of African Americans. When the patterns in the current public opinion data are seen in this light, they seem unsurprising and, indeed, inevitable.

    "As monuments to white supremacy are falling all across America, a great cloud of witnesses is gathering. Our fellow African American citizens, and indeed the entire country, are waiting to see whether we white Christians can finally find the humility and courage and love to face the truth about our long relationship with white supremacy and to dismantle the Christian worldview we built to justify it."

    Aren't the 120 year-old quotations from JW documents that you chose to cite reflective of a broader social evil in which they resided? Aren't the 50- and 60 year-old quotations also reflective of more than one religious group's views back then? Isn't it true that Christians, however defined, have contributed to racism historically and continue to do so presently? Isn't the more precise and inclusive question, what have Christians had against blacks over the centuries?

  • TruthTruth Posts: 395
    edited November 28

    @Bill_Coley

    You raise good points. We have come a long way for which I am glad. We all still have a ways to go and by God’s grace we shall do so.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 395

    My black skin has turned white, Just like JW's said it should,

    Seriously, my image seemed offensive to some, so I have changed it. Hopefully, skin color won't be an issue for some people if they think I am white.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 477
    edited November 29


    • Truth Posts: 328 6:19PM Flag
    • My black skin has turned white, Just like JW's said it should,
    • Seriously, my image seemed offensive to some, so I have changed it. Hopefully, skin color won't be an issue for some people if they think I am white.

    =========================================================================================================

    Thanksgiving is a feast that the Puritans (Pilgrims) celebated in the 1600's. If @Truth were black he would have known that Thanksgiving is considered a white supremacy holiday and hurtful to the indigenous people. Puritans were slave owners.


    @Truth posted Why do JW's reject the birth of Christ and Thanksgiving?


    "What is certain is that the first feast was not called a “Thanksgiving” at the time; no further integrated dining occasions were scheduled; and the first, official all-Pilgrim “Thanksgiving” had to wait until 1637, when the whites of New England celebrated the massacre of the Wampanoag’s southern neighbors, the Pequots."


  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,575

    @Truth posted:

    @Bill_Coley

    You raise good points. We have come a long way for which I am glad. We all still have a ways to go and by God’s grace we shall do so.

    The point of your previous post seemed to be that JWs have a unique form and/or level of culpability when it comes to their attitude toward blacks. The point of my response was to suggest there was nothing unique about either the group's form or level of culpability since many/most other contemporaneous Christian groups - both 120 and 50 years ago - held similarly sinful views. So by affirming the "good points" I raised, are you acknowledging that there is in fact nothing unique about the JW's contribution to the problem of race in America, that the responsibility more accurately lies with Christendom writ large?

  • TruthTruth Posts: 395

    @Bill_Coley The part which I felt was a good point was this:

     Isn't it true that Christians, however defined, have contributed to racism historically and continue to do so presently?

    I am sure that not every JW is culpable. However, I have felt many racist barbs from @BroRando, a racism which he makes no effort to deny. That is why I raised the question of the Watchtower's position regarding blacks, which I do not think has been rescinded. In fact, I know of no prevalence of formal racist documents anywhere close to that of JW's.

  • PagesPages Posts: 91

    @BroRando

    Notice this admission. The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263: The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.

    Please post the full context of the above wording given between the quote marks in The Catholic Encyclopedia. I have searched this Encyclopedia for the above quote and it doesn't seem to exist.

    Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger: 

    He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19. “The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome.” — Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) Introduction to Christianity: 1968 edition, pp. 82, 83.

    This is taken from a discussion on the history of the Apostles' Creed document found in Chapter Two: THE ECCLESIASTICAL FORM OF FAITH – I. Introductory Remarks On The History And Structure Of The Apostles' Creed. pages 50-51 Introduction to Christianity, 2nd Edition, 2004.              

    Perhaps, here as well, you might also supply the full context of the above quote in the 1968 edition.

    That's right, an admission that the baptism text came from the Pagan City of Rome.

    Yes, in Ratzinger's writing, the Apostles' Creed provenance is considered to be Rome; however, there is no discussion by him regarding a "baptism text (Matt. 28:19)" as being from Rome.

    So far, there has not been provided substantial and verifiable support for the contention that the RCC, or anyone else, modified the text of Matt. 28:19 to read "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". 

    There is what seems, to me at least, a great misuse of quoting, either by manipulation or manufacturing, to give support to a fundamentally flawed premise you are promoting.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,319

    Brethren,

    Have we reached where we're going? Answer: To a new low.

    Historical Facts are on the pages of history for all to see (e.g., Thanksgiving and JWs on race relations). Either of the positions mentioned above is the same today? As for  @BroRando, he should be able from JWS official documents and rulings of the Organization's stance on "people of color." This is simple. Acknowledged the historical past (endorsement or implicit) and proclaimed the present-day position and attitude on the matter, and closed the case. When one knows better, one does better.

    PS.  @BroRando, regardless of your skin color, I like to know if you are an individual or a body of people (Training class, focused group, or JW officials) masking as an individual? This is not required as far as I know, but your enigmatic responses and posting make me wonder and uncomfortable. It may be my problem, but could you consider being a little more idiosyncratic. Spewing organizational talking points, in my view, is empty-headed. Being rude is not the way forward. Siri (Voice assistant) can do that from time to time. CM

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 477


    Who Is the Antichrist?


    The Bible’s answer

    •  The antichrist is not merely one individual person or entity, for the Bible says that there are “many antichrists.” (1 John 2:​18) Rather, the term “antichrist,” which comes from a Greek word meaning “against (or instead of) Christ,” refers to anyone who does the following:
    • Denies that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) or denies that he is the Son of God.​—1 John 2:​22.
    • Opposes the Christ, God’s Anointed One.​—Psalm 2:​1, 2; Luke 11:23.
    •  Persecutes the followers of Christ, since Jesus views what is done to them as being done to him.​—Acts 9:5.
    •  Falsely claims to be a Christian while practicing lawlessness or deception.​Matthew 7:​22, 23; 2 Corinthians 11:13.

     Besides speaking of individuals who take such actions as being antichrists, the Bible also refers to them collectively as “the antichrist.” (2 John 7) The antichrist first appeared in the time of the apostles and has been active ever since. Bible prophecy foretold just such a development in the last days.​1 John 4:3.

    How to identify antichrists


    • They promote false ideas related to Jesus. (Matthew 24:​9, 11) For example, those who teach the Trinity or that Jesus is Almighty God actually oppose the teachings of Jesus, who said: “The Father is greater than I am.”​—John 14:28.
    •  Antichrists reject what Jesus said about how God’s Kingdom operates. For instance, some religious leaders say that Christ works through human governments. Yet, this teaching contradicts Jesus, who said: “My Kingdom is no part of this world.”​John 18:36.
    •  They say that Jesus is their Lord, but they do not obey his commands, including the one to preach the good news of the Kingdom.​Matthew 28:19, 20; Luke 6:​46; Acts 10:42.
    • They removed Christ from scripture and violently persecute anyone who points it out.---Mark 1:34


  • PagesPages Posts: 91

    @BroRando

    Who Is the Antichrist?

    This response does nothing to resolve my question to you.

    Are you at all able to provide me with the actual document context for the two quotes, one in the Catholic Encyclopedia, and the other in the 1968 edition of Ratzinger's Introduction to Christianity I asked you about? 

Sign In or Register to comment.