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So, if Jesus is the firstborn of All Creation, then at one time he did not exist, but was the first to be created.
That means he was made, brought forth, or begotten which are terms that mean 'made to exist' or 'to be' eimi.
The scriptures bare witness about Jesus Christ being the Wisdom of God in this manner: "Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago. From ancient times I was installed, From the start, from times earlier than the earth. When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth, When there were no springs overflowing with water. Before the mountains were set in place, Before the hills, I was brought forth," (Proverbs 8:22-25)
Original Word: εἰμί
Strong's Concordance
eimi: I exist, I am
Original Word: εἰμί
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eimi
Phonetic Spelling: (i-mee')
Definition: I exist, I am
Usage: I am, exist.
HELPS Word-studies
1510 eimí (the basic Greek verb which expresses being, i.e. "to be") – am, is. 1510 (eimí), and its counterparts, (properly) convey "straight-forward" being (existence, i.e. without explicit limits).
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@BroRando So, if Jesus is the firstborn of All Creation, then at one time he did not exist, but was the first to be created.
What does firstborn mean ? Jesus is the firstborn from the dead (Revelation 1:5 & Colossians 1:18)
Colossians 1:9-20 is one long Greek sentence (includes firstborn meaning after phrase "the firstborn from the dead")
Because of this also we, from the day we heard about it, did not cease praying for you, and asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual insight, so that you may live in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good deed and increasing in the knowledge of God, enabled with all power, according to his glorious might, for all steadfastness and patience with joy, giving thanks to the Father who has qualified you for a share of the inheritance of the saints in light, who has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have the redemption, the forgiveness of sins, who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him, and he himself is before all things, and in him all things are held together, and he himself is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he himself may become first in everything, because he was well pleased for all the fullness to dwell in him, and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by making peace through the blood of his cross, through him, whether things on earth or things in heaven. (Colossians 1:9-20 LEB)
Before creation, time did not exist, but God existed. Jesus experienced God's Glory (John 17:5) and God's Love (John 17:24) before creation.
@BroRando The scriptures bare witness about Jesus Christ being the Wisdom of God in this manner: "Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago. From ancient times I was installed, From the start, from times earlier than the earth. When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth, When there were no springs overflowing with water. Before the mountains were set in place, Before the hills, I was brought forth," (Proverbs 8:22-25)
@Bill_Coley & myself are still looking forward to you answering two questions:
@Bill_Coley 1. On what basis do you have confidence that by his use of the female term "חָכְמָה," the author of Proverbs 8 intends to refer to a male (or female, for that matter) human being?
@Bill_Coley 2. On what basis do you have confidence that Paul is referencing wisdom as described in Proverbs 8 when he asserts that Jesus "became wisdom from God" to us (1 Cor 1.30, ESV)
Strong's Concordance shows original word with the Definition for that particular spelling
Missing is Definition modification for various spellings used in Greek language expression: e.g. verb conjugations of εἰμί
εἰμί => I am, I exist => Present tense, Active Voice, Indicative mood, First person, Singular
εἶ => You are, You exist, Thou are, Thou exists => Present tense, Active Voice, Indicative mood, Second person, Singular
ἔστι => He/She/It is, He/She/It exists => Present tense, Active Voice, Indicative mood, Third person, Singular
ἐσμεν => We are, We exist => Present tense, Active Voice, Indicative mood, First person, Plural
ἐστε => You are, You exist, Ye are, Ye exist => Present tense, Active Voice, Indicative mood, Second person, Plural
εἰσίν => They are, They exist => Present tense, Active Voice, Indicative mood, Third person, Plural
εἶναι => To be, To exist => Present tense, Active Voice, Infinitive mood
Several Greek lexicons (dictionaries) provide more definition range of meaning insights than short summary in Strong's Concordance.
"A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG)" has 11 definitions of εἰμί (with various number of sub-definitions) gathered from εἰμί word usage in many Koine Greek documents (too long for reply quoting).
The Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament has many εἰμί usage insights:
εἰμί eimi be
1. Occurrences and usage in the NT — 2. As a copula — 3. As a pred. — 4. With preps. — 5. With gen. or dat.
Lit.: J. Barr, The Semantics of Biblical Language (1961) 58–72. — T. Bomann, Hebrew Thought Compared with Greek (1960) 37–51. — F. Büchsel, TDNT II, 398–400. — BDF §§98; 127f.; 352f.; 189f. — C. H. Kahn, “The Greek Verb ‘To Be’ and the Concept of Being,” Foundations of Language 2 (1966) 245–65. — H. Kraft, Offenbarung (HNT, 1974) 31. — C. H. Ratschow, Werden und Wirken (BZAW 70, 1941). — B. Reicke, BHH III, 1759f. — H. Zimmermann, Das absolute “Ich bin” als biblische Offenbarungsformel (Diss. Bonn, 1951).
1. Εἰμί appears in more than 30 different grammatical forms in ca. 2450 passages of the NT distributed throughout all the NT writings. Most are in John (ca. 440), Luke (ca. 360), Matthew (ca. 290), and Acts (ca. 280). Εἰμί is relatively frequent in 1 John (ca. 100 occurrences), but relatively infrequent in 1 Peter (3), 2 Peter (13), 2 Thessalonians (7), and Philemon (3). Among the different forms of εἰμί the most frequent is ἐστίν or ἔστιν (ca. 900), εἰσίν (157), εἰμί (140), ἦν (ca. 315). In the fut. most frequent is ἔσται (118), in the pres. partc., ὤν (44). A close relationship between the style of a NT document and its use of εἰμί can be observed in the lapidary statements of 1 John (with striking dominance of ἐσμέν) and in the “revelatory sayings” of John (→ ἐγώ 2), where the inf. (only 3 occurrences) withdraws in favor of the third person pres. ind. (116 occurrences, often with ὅτι of discourse). Luke and Paul (esp. in Romans), on the other hand, use the inf. and the pres. partc. frequently.
In most passages εἰμί is used as a copula between subj. and pred. (→ 2 .a). In such instances the subj. can be named explicitly or included in the copula; likewise the pred. nom. can be explicit or implicit in the context. The copula can be omitted in impersonal expressions, shouts, questions, and particularly in maxims and aphorisms (see BDF §§127f.). The copula originated, in any case, in the nominal clause, which was common in Hebrew and not unusual in Greek.
In connection with the pres. or perf. partc. εἰμί is used in periphrasis for corresponding vb. forms (esp. in Luke-Acts; see BDF §§352f.). Here Hebrew and Aramaic influence is to be assumed. Periphrasis involves no alteration of meaning in most instances, but sometimes indicates an intensification of the statement (→ 2.d).
Εἰμί can also be used alone as a full pred. and in such cases normally means be present, exist, live, stay, or impersonally there is, it happens, it is (→ 3 .a). In connection with preps. εἰμί designates the origin, the affiliation, the alignment, or generally the place of things or persons (→ 4). With gen. or dat. εἰμί can express a relationship of possession (see BDF §§189f.) (→ 5).
2. a) As a copula εἰμί places subj. and pred. in relation to each other, e.g., εἰ υἱὸς εἶ τοῦ θεοῦ (Matt 4:3); καὶ γὰρ Γαλιλαῖος εἶ (Mark 14:70); εἷς ἐστιν ὁ ἀγαθός (Matt 19:17); to identify subj. with pred. ὁ λύχνος τοῦ σώματός ἐστιν ὁ ὀφθαλμός σου (11:34; cf. 1 Cor 9:2), esp. in the interpretation of a parable, e.g., ὁ δὲ ἀγρός ἐστιν ὁ κόσμος (Matt 13:38; cf. v. 37, 29 bis), and in introductory formulas for parables, e.g., ὁμοία ἐστὶν ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν … , “the kingdom of heaven is like …” (vv. 33, 44).
b) In the Gospels the formula → ἐγώ εἰμι sometimes appears without explicit determination of the pred., which must be determined from the context: θαρσεῖτε, ἐγώ εἰμι (Mark 6:50 par. Matt 14:27; Mark 14:62; John 4:26; 8:28; 18:5; cf. also Matt 26:22, 25). The pred. is to be determined from the context in 1 John 3:1 as well.
c) The formula τοῦτʼ ἔστιν (among others) has an explanatory function, that is, that means, namely, often in the translation of Aram. expressions (e.g., Matt 27:46; Mark 7:11, 34; 9:10; Luke 15:26). Τίνα θέλει ταῦτα εἶναι is translated “what these things mean” (Acts 17:20); as in explanations of parables (→ 2 .a) the literal meaning of something already indicated or said is emphasized, but an identification is not made; similarly also in the sacrificial formula τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ σῶμά (αἷμά) μου (Mark 14:22 (24) par.; cf. 1 Cor 11:24, 25); with the bread and cup in their literal meaning the body of Christ and the new covenant are present. The most suitable translation remains the simple “this is …” in the sense of “in it is present.”
d) Periphrastic εἰμί serves the grammatically necessary function of connecting the perf. partc. with the fut. (e.g., Matt 16:19; 18:18). It is used in other situations with no noticeable shift of meaning from the nonperiphrastic tenses. Beyond this it is used to give special emphasis to a statement or to the nominal meaning of the partc. (e.g., Matt 19:22; Mark 5:14; 6:52; Luke 23:53; John 6:50; Acts 22:20; 25:10; 1 Cor 7:29; 15:19; Gal 1:22f.). It also serves to emphasize the duration or the regular recurrence of an action or a situation (e.g., Mark 1:22 par. Matt 7:29; Mark 15:43; Matt 10:22; Luke 14:1; 19:47; Acts 1:13, 17; 2:42; 3:10; Eph 4:18). In John 1:28 ἦν has its own weight: “where John was staying and baptizing” (RSV is different). Cf. also the impersonal phrases πρέπον ἐστίν (1 Cor 11:13) and δέον ἐστίν (Acts 19:36).
e) Εἰμί appears in connection with adverbs, e.g., εἰμὶ ἐγγύς, be near (Matt 24:33; Mark 13:28), εἰμὶ μακράν, be far away (Mark 12:34), εἰμὶ πόρρω, be far away (Luke 14:32), εἰμὶ ἔντος, be in the midst (17:21), εἰμὶ οὕτως, be thus (Matt 1:18; Rom 4:18; 1 Pet 2:15), ἔστω σοι ὥσπερ τελώνης, “let him be to you as … a tax collector” (Matt 18:17), and τὸ εἶναι ἴσα (adverbial neut. pl.) θεῷ, “be like God” (Phil. 2:6; RSV “equality with God”).
3. a) Εἰμί can be an independent pred. (normally impf.) and means in narrative connections live, exist, be, e.g., οὗ ἦν τὸ παιδίον, “where the child was” (Matt 2:9), ἦν ἐκεῖ, “and [he] remained there” (2:15; cf. Mark 5:21), in the introduction of narratives and parables: ἄνθρωπος ἦν, “there was (once) a man” (Matt 21:33; Luke 16:1, etc.; cf. also Matt 22:25; 23:30); also with the meaning take place: σχίσμα ἦν, “there was a division” (John 9:16), δεʼ γὰρ καὶ αἱρέσεις ἐν ὑμῖν εἷναι, “for there must be factions among you” (1 Cor 11:19; cf. also Matt 24:37), καὶ ἔσται (with a fut. vb.), “and it shall be that …” (Acts 2:17, 21; 3:23). Εἰμί is sometimes used to give information about time: ἦν … ὥρα ἕκτη (Luke 23:44), ἦν παρασκευή (Mark 15:42), ἦν ἑορτὴ τῶν Ἱουδαίων (John 5:1), ἦν δὲ σάββατον (9:14). It sometimes means be there, be present: οὔπω γὰρ ἦν πνεῦμα (John 7:39), πάλιν πολλοῦ ὄχλου ὄντος, “when again a great crowd had gathered” (Mark 8:1); cf. μὴ ὄντος νόμου, “where there is no law” (Rom 5:13). With complementary inf. οὐκ ἔστιν means “it is impossible” (1 Cor 11:20, NEB).
b) That which is real, which has been called into being by God, is τὰ ὄντα, in contrast to that which does not exist, τὰ μὴ ὄντα (Rom 4:17; for the creation of the world from nothing, cf. 2 Macc 7:28; Herm. Vis. i.1.6; fig. for conversion as a new creation, Jos. As. 8:15). In 1 Cor 1:28 τὰ μὴ ὄντα is a metaphor for the “despised” ones chosen by God, in contrast to τὰ ὄντα, i.e., those who could build on their own glory without relating to God.
c) In dependence on God’s self-designation Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν or Ὁ ὤν in Exod 3:14 LXX, ὁ ὤν came to be a customary name for God for Hellenistic Jews (Philo Abr. 12; Josephus Ant. viii.350). In accordance with this, ὁ ὤν appears as a name for God in Revelation. Three times it appears in the “three-tense formula,” ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος, attested in Greek since Homer, as well as in Jewish tradition (Büchsel 397; Kraft), in a blessing (1:4), in a self-predication of God, connected with ἐγώ εἰμι (v. 8), and in a prayer (4:8). Twice it appears in the formula ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν (11:17; 16:5; here, too, in a prayer and in a word of praise). The “three-tense formula” shows that ὁ ἦν is pressed into service as a participle; the undeclined ἀπό phrase in 1:4 is also intentional. For the seer what is involved is the praise of the name of the God who “comes” from his eternal existence, of whom it can neither be said that he has come into being (ὁ γεγονώς, as in the Greek formulas) nor that he is simply timeless “being” (ὁ ἐσόμενος). Christ’s ἐγὼ εἰμί in John 8:58 is similar in its intention: “Before Abraham was [born], I am [present].”
In Heb 11:6 the concern is with faith “that [God] exists” (ὅτι ἔστιν) and can be found. 1 Cor 8:5 has the formula εἴπερ εἰσὶν λεγόμενοι θεοί … , but εἰμί is elided in vv. 4 and 6, where the subject is the one God. The omnipotent God is the subject of the eulogy in Rom 9:5f.: ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεός, “God who has power over everything” (RSV “God who is over all”).
4. Εἰμί with a prep. is found in the following combinations: εἰμὶ εἰς, “become something” (e.g., εἰς σάρκα μίαν, Matt 19:5 [v. 6f.: εἰσὶν … σάρξ μία!]; 1 Cor 6:16; εἰς σημεῖόν εἰσιν, they serve as a sign, 14:22; ἐμοὶ δὲ εἰς ἐλάχιστόν ἐστιν, it does not matter in the least to me, 4:3; in place of a pred. nom., εἰς τὸ ἕν εἰσιν, they become one, 1 John 5:8; cf. 2 Cor 6:18; Heb 1:5 [see BDF §145.1]), εἰμὶ ἐκ, expressing ownership or origin (e.g., ἐκ τοῦ πονηροῦ ἐστιν, “comes from the evil one,” Matt 5:37 [RSV mg.]; cf. 26:73; John 17:16; 18:25; 1 Cor 12:15; ἐκ τοῦ διαβόλου ἐστίν, belongs to the devil, 1 John 3:8), εἰμὶ ἐν, “live at a place” or “be in a specific place” (Matt 18:20; Mark 2:1; Rom 8:34; fig., ἦμεν ἐν τῇ σαρκί, Rom 7:5; ἐν οἷς εἰμι, “in whatever state I am,” Phil 4:11), εἰμὶ ἐπὶ τὸ αὐτό, “be together at the same place” (Acts 1:15; 1 Cor 7:5).
5. Εἰμί with gen. expresses the relationship of possession or affiliation (e.g., τίνος ἔσται γυνή, Mark 12:23; cf. Matt 19:14; Rom 8:9; ἐγὼ μέν εἰμι Παύλου, 1 Cor 1:12; πάντα ὑμῶν ἐστιν, 3:21; cf. 6:19; in reference to origin: ᾖ τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ μὴ ἐξ ἡμῶν, 2 Cor 4:7; to age: Acts 4:22). Εἰμί with dat. can also designate a relationship of possession (e.g., John 18:39), but also has the meaning happen to (Matt 16:22; cf. 18:8; 1 Cor 9:16).
H. Balz
Horst Robert Balz and Gerhard Schneider, Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1990–), 392–393.
Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words places original language words under English translation:
CONSIST
1. eimi (εἰμί, 1510), “to be,” is rendered “consist” (lit., “is”) in Luke 12:15.
2. sunistemi (συνιστάω, 4921), sun, “with,” histemi, “to stand,” denotes, in its intransitive sense, “to stand with or fall together, to be constituted, to be compact”; it is said of the universe as upheld by the Lord, Col. 1:17, lit., “by Him all things stand together,” i.e., “consist” (the Latin consisto, “to stand together,” is the exact equivalent of sunistemi). See approve, commend, make, stand.
W. E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, and William White Jr., Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (Nashville, TN: T. Nelson, 1996), 124.
HAVE
(Note: The following are distinct from the word when it is auxiliary to the tenses of other verbs.)
1. echo (ἔχω, 2192), the usual verb for “to have,” is used with the following meanings: (a) “to hold, in the hand,” etc., e.g., Rev. 1:16; 5:8; (b) “to hold fast, keep,” Luke 19:20; metaphorically, of the mind and conduct, e.g., Mark 16:8; John 14:21; Rom. 1:28; 1 Tim. 3:9; 2 Tim. 1:13; (c) “to hold on, cling to, be next to,” e.g., of accompaniment, Heb. 6:9, “things that accompany (salvation),” lit., “the things holding themselves of salvation” (rv, marg., “are near to”); of place, Mark 1:38, “next (towns),” lit., “towns holding nigh”; of time, e.g., Luke 13:33, “(the day) following,” lit., “the holding (day)”; Acts 13:44; 20:15; 21:26; (d) “to hold, to count, consider, regard,” e.g., Matt. 14:5; 21:46; Mark 11:32; Luke 14:18; Philem. 17; (e) “to involve,” Heb. 10:35; Jas. 1:4; 1 John 4:18; (t) “to wear,” of clothing, arms, etc., e.g., Matt. 3:4; 22:12; John 18:10; (g) “to be with child,” of a woman, Mark 13:17; Rom. 9:10 (lit., “having conception”); (h) “to possess,” the most frequent use, e.g., Matt. 8:20; 19:22; Acts 9:14; 1 Thess. 3:6; (i) of complaints, disputes, Matt. 5:23; Mark 11:25; Acts 24:19; Rev. 2:4, 20; (j) of ability, power, e.g., Luke 12:4; Acts 4:14 (lit., “had nothing to say”); (k) of necessity, e.g., Luke 12:50; Acts 23:17–19; (1) “to be in a certain condition,” as of readiness, Acts 21:12 (lit., “I have readily”); of illness, Matt. 4:24, “all that were sick” (lit., “that had themselves sickly”); Mark 5:23, “lieth (lit., “hath herself”) at the point of death”; Mark 16:18 “they shall recover” (lit., “shall have themselves well”), John 4:52, “he began to amend” (lit., “he had himself better”); of evil works, 1 Tim. 5:25, “they that are otherwise,” (lit., “the things having otherwise”); to be so, e.g., Acts 7:1, “are these things so?” (lit., “have these things thus?”), of time, Acts 24:25, “for this time” (lit., “the thing having now”).
2. apecho (ἀπέχω, 568) denotes “to have in full, to have received” (apo, “from,” and No. 1), Matt. 6:2, 5, 16, rv, “have received,” for kjv “have”; Luke 6:24, kjv and rv, “have received,” but Phil. 4:18, “I have”; Philem. 15, “(that) thou shouldest have (him)” (kjv, “receive”). Deissmann, in Light from the Ancient East, and Moulton and Milligan (Vocab. of Gk. Test.) show that the verb was constantly used as a technical expression in drawing up a receipt. Consequently in the Sermon on the Mount we are led to understand ‘they have received their reward’ as ‘they have signed the receipt of their reward: their right to receive their reward is realized, precisely as if they had already given a receipt for it.’ ”
Is there not a hint of this in Paul’s word to Philemon concerning receiving Onesimus (v. 17)? Philemon would give the apostle a receipt for his payment in sending him. This is in keeping with the metaphorical terms of finance in vv. 18, 19. See abstain.
3. ginomai (γίνομαι, 1096), “to begin to be, come to pass, happen,” is rendered “have” in Matt. 18:12; “had” in Acts 15:2; “shall have” in 1 Cor. 4:5, lit., “praise shall be,” or come to pass. See become.
4. metalambano (μεταλαμβάνω, 3335), “to have,” or “get a share of,” is rendered “I have (a convenient season),” in Acts 24:25. See eat, partake, receive, take.
5. huparcho (ὑπάρχω, 5225), “to be in existence, to be ready, at hand,” is translated by the verb “to have” in Acts 3:6, lit., “silver and gold is not to me” (in the next clause, “such as I have,” echo is used); 4:37, “having (land),” lit., “(land) being (to him)”; Matt. 19:21, “that (thou) hast,” lit., “(things that) are (thine),” i.e., “thy belongings”; similarly Luke 12:33; 44; 14:33. See being.
6. antiballo (ἀντιβάλλω, 474), lit., “to throw in turn, exchange” (anti. “corresponding to,” ballo, “to throw”), hence, metaphorically, “to exchange thoughts,” is used in Luke 24:27, “ye have,” i.e., “ye exchange.”¶
7. eimi (εἰμί, 1510), “to be,” is often used in its various forms with some case of the personal pronoun, to signify “to be to,” or “of, a person,” e.g., Matt. 19:27, “(what then) shall we have,” lit., “what then shall be to us?”; Acts 21:23, “we have four men,” lit., “there are to us, etc.”
8. enduo (ἐνδύω, 1746), “to put on,” is rendered “having on” in Eph. 6:14. See clothe.
Notes: (1) In John 5:4 (in those mss. which contain the passage), katecho, “to hold fast,” is used in the passive voice, in the phrase “whatsoever disease he had,” lit., “(by whatsoever disease) he was held.” (2) In Mark 12:22, in some mss., lambano, “to take” or “receive,” is translated “had,” in the statement “the seven had her”; in Acts 25:16, rv, “have had” (kjv, “have”); in Heb. 11:36, “had.” (3) In Matt. 27:19, “Have thou nothing to do with that righteous man” translates what is lit. “nothing to thee and that righteous man,” the verb being omitted. Similarly with the phrase, “What have I to do with thee?” lit., “what (is) to me and thee?” Mark 5:7; Luke 8:28; John 2:4, where Westcott translates it “What is there to Me and to thee?”; Ellicott, “What is that to Me and to thee,” i.e., “What is My concern and thine in the matter?” There is certainly nothing disparaging in the question. On the contrary, it answers what must have been the thought in Mary’s heart, and suggests that while there is no obligation either on Him or her, yet the need is a case for rendering help. For the construction with the plural pronoun see Matt. 8:29; Mark 1:24; Luke 4:34. (4) In Heb. 4:13, “with whom we have to do” is, lit., “with whom (is) the account (logos) to us.” (5) In Heb. 13:5, “such things as ye have” is, lit., “the (things) present.” (6) In Mark 5:26, “all that she had” is, lit., “all the (things) with her.” (7) For Luke 15:31, kjv, “all that I have,” lit., “all my (things),” see rv. (8) For eneimi, Luke 11:41, “ye have,” see within, Note (h).
W. E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, and William White Jr., Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (Nashville, TN: T. Nelson, 1996), 292–293.
MEAN (Verb)
1. eimi (εἰμί, 1510), “to be,” in certain of its forms, has an explicative force, signifying “to denote, to import,” e.g., Matt. 9:13; 12:7, “(what this) meaneth,” lit. “(what this) is”; Luke 18:36, “meant” (lit., “might be”); Acts 10:17, “might mean,” rv (lit., “might be”); in Luke 15:26 the rv keeps to the verb “to be,” “(what these things) might be” (kjv, “meant”). In Acts 2:12 the verb “to be” is preceded by thelo, “to will,” and the phrase is translated “(what) meaneth (this),” lit., “(what) does (this) will to be?” in 17:20, lit., “(what do these things) will to be?”
2. lego (λέγω, 3004), “to say,” sometimes has the significance of “meaning” something; so the rv in 1 Cor. 1:12; kjv, “(this) I say.”
Notes: (1) In Acts 27:2, kjv, mello, “to be about to,” is translated “meaning” (rv, “was about to”), with reference to the ship (according to the best mss.). (2) In Acts 21:13, kjv, poieo, “to do,” is translated “(what) mean ye (to weep)”; rv, “(what) do ye, (weeping).” (3) The abbreviated original in 2 Cor. 8:13 is rendered by the italicized additions, kjv, “I mean (not),” rv, “I say (not) this.” Cf. the rv italics in Mark 6:2.
W. E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, and William White Jr., Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (Nashville, TN: T. Nelson, 1996), 398.
POSSIBLE
A. Adjective.
dunatos (δυνατός, 1415), “strong, mighty, powerful, able (to do),” in its neuter form signifies “possible,” Matt. 19:26; 24:24; 26:39; Mark 9:23; 10:27; 13:22; 14:35, 36; Luke 18:27; Acts 2:24; 20:16 (27:39, in some mss; dunamai, “to be able,” in the most authentic, rv, “they could”); Rom. 12:18; Gal. 4:15. See able.
B. Verb.
eimi (εἰμί, 1510), “to be,” is used in the third person singular, impersonally, with the meaning “it is possible,” negatively in 1 Cor. 11:20, rv, (kjv, “it is not”), and Heb. 9:5, “we cannot,” lit., “it is not possible.”
Note: For Heb. 10:4, kjv, “it is not possible,” see impossible.
W. E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, and William White Jr., Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (Nashville, TN: T. Nelson, 1996), 477–478.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@BroRando posted:
The scriptures bare witness about Jesus Christ being the Wisdom of God in this manner: "Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago. From ancient times I was installed, From the start, from times earlier than the earth. When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth, When there were no springs overflowing with water. Before the mountains were set in place, Before the hills, I was brought forth," (Proverbs 8:22-25)
In your most recent post in this thread, you introduce Proverbs 8.22-25 with the exact words - including the same misuse of the word "bare" - as you used in this thread's OP. In response to that initial reference to Proverb 8 and the comments you offered on a text from 1 Corinthians 1, I asked you two questions:
- On what basis do you have confidence that by his use of the female term "חָכְמָה," the author of Proverbs 8 intends to refer to a male (or female, for that matter) human being?
- On what basis do you have confidence that Paul is referencing wisdom as described in Proverbs 8 when he asserts that Jesus "became wisdom from God" to us (1 Cor 1.30, ESV)
You did not respond.
I then posed those same questions to you twice more in this thread, in THIS POST and THIS POST.
You did not respond.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus added the fourth appearance of those questions in THIS POST.
You did not respond.
The first - and on occasion, perhaps even the second - time a poster doesn't respond to a question is never proof of his or her intention to evade it. We're all capable of unintentionally overlooking another poster's inquiry. But when a poster fails to respond to questions posed four times, the odds of evasion rise considerably. I hope you will prove those odds wrong now by responding to my questions. If you don't, I will conclude that you are in fact evading my questions... and we'll both know why you're doing so.
p.s. @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus for Jesus has since added the fifth appearance of my questions, in THIS POST.
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@BroRando posted:
I already answered them.
Please provide links to the specific post(s) in which you answered my two questions.
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Now as to the eimi. I also showed and explained your error. 1510 eimí (the basic Greek verb which expresses being, i.e. "to be") – am, is. 1510 (eimí), and its counterparts, (properly) convey "straight-forward" being (existence, i.e. without explicit limits).
Actually the Greek verb dos not mean God as trinitarians attest too. But I never met an honest trinitarian. However the Greek verb actually means to become. As in being begotten or as in being brought forth. It is an action verb. So I did not explain it since being is 'to be'.
Therefore the rendering can also be termed I existed before Abraham. I have been before Abraham. However I am before Abram is insufficient and not proper usage of Greek. So the use of the pronoun along with the action verb is just that and not a Name. Amen?
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@BroRando posted:
I already answered them.
(PART 2, having asked in my previous post that you provide links to the specific posts in which you answered my two questions.)
In case it's not immediately obvious how to create links to specific posts....
1. Right click the time stamp of the post to which you want to create a link, the location of which is circled in red in the accompanying image. From the resulting menu, choose “Copy Link Address” (Chrome browser), “Copy Link” (Firebox browser), or however the browser you use names the option.
2. You may then paste that link directly into one of your posts (Ctrl+ v), or, if you want to add the link to specific text in a new post, in the post editing window, use your mouse to select the text to which you want to add the link, then choose the paper clip icon at the right end of the horizontal menu that appears below the selected text. Use Ctrl+v to paste the link into the resulting window, then hit Enter to finalize the link. The selected text should then turn blue to indicate that it contains a link. (You can also use that horizontal menu to put the linked text in bold-face, if you so desire, by selecting the text and clicking the “B” icon at the left end of the menu.)
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Oh.... I almost forget. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God." (John 1:1-2)
You may want too see verse two that states: "This one was from the beginning...
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@BroRando Therefore the rendering can also be termed I existed before Abraham. I have been before Abraham. However I am before Abram is insufficient and not proper usage of Greek. So the use of the pronoun along with the action verb is just that and not a Name. Amen?
What did the Jews understand Jesus to have said in John 8:58 that deserved death ? (John 8:59 per Jewish law based on Torah teachings, which has 613 commands)
Phrase "ἐγώ εἰμί" (egō eimi) occurs 47 times in the New Testament: spoken 39 times by Jesus (includes John 8:58 & 22 other times in John) and spoken by others: Disciples in Matthew 26:22, Judas in Matthew 26:25, Angel Gabriel in Luke 1:19, Man blind from birth in John 9:9, Peter in Acts 10:21, God in Acts 18:10, Paul in Acts 22:3 & Acts 26:29
Phrase "ἐγώ εἰμί" (egō eimi) occurs 180 times in the Greek Septuagint (Jewish translation of Hebrew Bible into Greek ~200 years before Jesus): spoken by God 111 times and spoken by others: e.g. Abraham in Genesis 23:4; Abraham's servant in Genesis 24:34; Jacob (deceiver) in Genesis 27:32, 30:2, 31:38, 31:41; Joseph in Genesis 45:3-4, 50:19; Moses in Exodus 4:10 & Deuteronomy 31:2; Deborah & Barak in Judges 5:3; Gideon in Judges 6:15; ...
Keep Smiling 😊
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Good thing Jesus didn't claim to be I AM THAT I AM. Glad he escaped that one! 😀
Jesus never claims to be the I AM THAT I AM. But rather God sends a messenger (I AM). The I AM appears to Moses @ (Exodus 3:2) and is SENT to lead the Nation of Israel that I AM THAT I AM has prepared. (Exodus 23:20-21)
Notice this messenger would have God's Name in him.
I AM THAT I AM = God
I AM = Messenger
Jehovah God, the only true God (John 17:3)
Jesus Christ, the angel of Jehovah. (Acts 27:23)
Jehovah
Jesus when translated means 'Jehovah is Salvation' For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name! (Matthew 23:39)
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@BroRando posted:
Jesus Christ, the angel of Jehovah. (Acts 27:23)
Where in the text of Acts 27 do you find support for your view that Jesus is the angel whom Paul quotes in v.23?
In Galatians 4.14, Paul makes a clear distinction between Jesus and the angels (emphasis added):
"But even though my condition tempted you to reject me, you did not despise me or turn me away. No, you took me in and cared for me as though I were an angel from God or even Christ Jesus himself."
The writer of Hebrews makes a similar distinction in Hebrews 1.5 (emphasis added):
5 For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.”
And finally, John the Revelator quotes Jesus as referring to an angel under his direction, suggesting that Jesus commands angels, but isn't one himself (emphasis added):
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this message for the churches. I am both the source of David and the heir to his throne. I am the bright morning star.” [EDIT: THIS VERSE IS REVELATION 22.16]
So again my question: Where in Acts 27 do you find support for your view that Jesus is the angel Paul quotes in Acts 27.23?
Post edited by Bill_Coley on -
The writer of Hebrews makes a similar distinction in Hebrews 1.5 (emphasis added):
5 For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.”
Sure he did, The answer to which angel is in Hebrews 5:5 "Thus also Christ did not glorify himself to become high priest, but the one who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you,”
Don't you believe Jesus is the Christ?? other translations:
In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father."
That is why Christ did not honor himself by assuming he could become High Priest. No, he was chosen by God, who said to him, “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.”
So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”;
So also Christ did not take upon Himself the glory of becoming a high priest, but He was called by the One who said to Him: “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father.”
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See? And no one takes this honor on himself, but he receives it when called by God, just as Aaron was. In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” (Hebrews 5:4-5)
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@BroRando posted:
See? And no one takes this honor on himself, but he receives it when called by God, just as Aaron was. In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” (Hebrews 5:4-5)
- Hebrews 5.4-5 makes no correction whatsoever of the assertion made by Hebrews 1.5 - namely, that God said to Jesus something God never said to any angel - and hence, provides no rebuttal to my assertion that Hebrews 1.5 makes a clear distinction between Jesus and the angels.
- There are still the matters of the Galatians 4 and Revelation 22 texts I cited in my previous post.
- Neither Hebrews 5.4-5 nor any other portion of your two most recent posts provides information about the text my previous post asked about, Acts 27.23. Hence, I ask my question again: Where in the text of Acts 27 do you find support for your view that Jesus is the angel whom Paul quotes in v.23?
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See? And no one takes this honor on himself, but he receives it when called by God, just as Aaron was. In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” (Hebrews 5:4-5)
So how is Jesus God from this scripture.
Listening..... for your explanantion
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@BroRando posted:
See? And no one takes this honor on himself, but he receives it when called by God, just as Aaron was. In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” (Hebrews 5:4-5)
So how is Jesus God from this scripture.
Listening..... for your explanantion
As has happened in some of your previous posts, it's not clear to me whom you're addressing with those words (I again encourage you to employ the forums' quotation feature, including, as suggested by @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus, the ability to identify users by placing the "@" character before their usernames. See the example of my quoting you at the top of this post. All I did was to type @ followed by the first few characters of your user name (BroRando). The system quickly identifies CD members whose username could possibly fit the letters you've typed. In your case, once I typed the "R" in "Rando," the system eliminated all CD members other than you.), but my guess is you're referring to my most recent post. If I'm right about that, then it's germane for me to tell you that I am NOT a Trinitarian. Anyone who has followed my CD posts over the years will confirm that I have frequently, consistently, and at great length argued that Jesus is NOT God. In fact, in the course of my hundreds of anti-Trinitarian posts I have used many, perhaps all, of the texts you've cited in your posts here. In a sense, then, your most recent post in this thread preached to the proverbial choir.
THAT SAID, your latest post STILL does not address the question I will now ask you for the fourth time: Where in the text of Acts 27 do you find support for your view that Jesus is the angel whom Paul quotes in v.23?
p.s. And though it's not likely to make a difference, I remind you yet again of the two questions I posed to you earlier in this thread, questions you've been asked, but chosen not to answer, five times. In your latest reply on the matter, you contended that you had already answered them. I then asked that you provide links to the specific posts in which those answers resided, a request to which you have not replied. I now repeat my request for those links... or the answers to the two questions, which in my view, you've yet to address.
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I would be willing to circle back, Ok you're not a trinitarian.
See? And no one takes this honor on himself, but he receives it when called by God, just as Aaron was. In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” (Hebrews 5:4-5)
So how is Jesus God from this scripture.
Listening..... for your explanation
