The TRUTH About "The Logos Of God"
Comments
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Unbelief about who Jesus is hinders understanding of who Gd is.
@Wolfgang Exactly ... such unbelief is major reason for people to worship THREE as God instead of just One.
Huh ? How can unbelief be a reason for people to worship ? (True worship needs True belief: e.g. Scripture shows One Gd is Plural & Unified)
Thankful to be included in John 17 Priestly Prayer of Jesus because of my belief in Jesus, who is One יהוה YHVH Gd with Father & Breath The Holy. Thankful for Gd's Love expression where The One True SPIRIT of Gd being in many places at the same time (humanly impossible) so The Word (eternally being Gd who was having Gd's Glory & Love before creation of world) choose to inhabit one human body to become Holy substitute sacrifice for sin. Sadly Scripture also describes humans losing their first love in יהוה YHVH Gd so need to repent & turn to יהוה YHVH Gd. (Rev 2)
Jesus is יהוה YHVH Gd's Priestly King of Righteousness who will judge humans (Jer 23:5-6). Those choosing to do יהוה YHVH Gd's will have a Blessed place while those not knowing Jesus as יהוה YHVH Gd will hear "I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness" (Matt 7:21-23)
Keep Smiling 😊
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Huh ? How can unbelief be a reason for people to worship ? (True worship needs True belief: e.g. Scripture shows One Gd is Plural & Unified)
Unbelief (rejection/disobedience) to the truth that God is One can well be the reason for people to worship a God Who they believe is Three. You provide da prime example.
The Biblical truth is : God is only ONE! False belief is: One God Three.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Huh ? How can unbelief be a reason for people to worship ? (True worship needs True belief: e.g. Scripture shows One Gd is Plural & Unified)
@Wolfgang Unbelief (rejection/disobedience) to the truth that God is One can well be the reason for people to worship a God Who they believe is Three. You provide da prime example.
Puzzling mix of words that appears contradictory: unbelief (rejection/disobedience) to Truth of One Gd can well be reason to worship One Gd ? ? ?
@Wolfgang The Biblical truth is : God is only ONE! False belief is: One God Three.
Concur belief in three gods is false (polytheism). A false belief is in Jeremiah 2:27 (LEB) Those who say to the tree, ‘You are my father,’ and to the stone, ‘You gave birth to me.’ (where those who do not believe in One יהוה Yahweh Gd, say to the tree: abba, sad unbelief from One Gd Truth)
Thankful for my belief in One יהוה Yahweh Gd having One Heart, One Soul, One Spirit, One Strength, who choose plurality of three voices (simultaneous roles) for expressing One unified Love nature, which is Holy and Righteous 😍(wonderous beyond human word description)
Biblical Truth is before any humans existed (One Gd had not yet created the world out of nothing nor breathed life into dust to form Adam), Jesus was having Gd's Glory (John 17:5) and was Loved by Father (John 17:24) along with Father Gd (Isaiah 42.8 I am יהוה Yahweh; that is my name, and I do not give my glory to another, nor my praise to the idols.) giving יהוה name to Jesus (John 17:11 & Jeremiah 23:5-6). יהוה Yahweh is the source of living water (Jeremiah 2:13, Jeremiah 17:13, Zechariah 14:8) that includes Jesus (John 4:10-11, John 7:37, Revelation 7:17).
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus ...Three Diety Voices ...
I am not sure I understand what the above means.
By this do you mean to imply:
(1) The voices of three independent deities?
(2) Tritheism
(3) That there are there divine or spiritual voices, but not essentially from a deity or at least not directly from a deity?
or
(4) That one singular Deity speaks in three particular different ways?
Thanks in Advance
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus ...Three Diety Voices ...
@Mitchell I am not sure I understand what the above means.
Apologies for my spelling sometimes being a bit dyslexic: Diety should have been Deity (human signals from brain to fingers can invert order)
@Mitchell (4) That one singular Deity speaks in three particular different ways?
One Gd has One Heart, One Soul, One Spirit, One Name intimately shared by Three Deity Voices (simultaneous roles): The Will (Father), The Word (Son), Breath The Holy to express One Gd's Love nature, which is truthfully consistent and complimentary in one singular Deity.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus One Gd has One Heart, One Soul, One Spirit, One Name intimately shared by Three Deity Voices (simultaneous roles): The Will (Father), The Word (Son), Breath The Holy to express One Gd's Love nature, which is truthfully consistent and complimentary in one singular Deity.
This is a typical example of "mumble jumble confusion of terms" ... it nowhere makes clear what is meant with "One God", with "Voices", "simultaneous roles", etc ... It nicely clouds or muddies "Father" by calling Him "The Will", and "Son" by calling him "The Word", and then it is inconsistent in not providing any such "Spirit" by calling it "Breath The Holy", etc. Then it introduces "One God's Love nature", doesn't really define that but states that the earlier three (Will, Word, Breath The Holy) "express"" it, and adds at the end "which is truthfully consistent and complimentary in one singular Deity" thereby just brushing aside the pervious ideas of "plural".
You have THREE DEITIES ... and nothing you say or claim changes that plain fact!!! You use the term "voices" because you don't like the term "persons" - apparently because you think with "voices" your THREE DEITIES would be hidden more easily and readers would not notice the self-contradiction to your "one singular Deity"
You simply hold to the faith belief of the traditional church's Holy Trinity dogma from the 4th century councils ...
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@Lamech ... has there been any progress at the study or further information you wanted to post in support of your thesis regarding the title of this particular thread - The TRUTH About "The Logos of God" ?
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus One Gd has One Heart, One Soul, One Spirit, One Name intimately shared by Three Deity Voices (simultaneous roles): The Will (Father), The Word (Son), Breath The Holy to express One Gd's Love nature, which is truthfully consistent and complimentary in one singular Deity.
@Wolfgang This is a typical example of "mumble jumble confusion of terms" ... it nowhere makes clear what is meant with "One God", with "Voices", "simultaneous roles", etc ... It nicely clouds or muddies "Father" by calling Him "The Will", and "Son" by calling him "The Word", and then it is inconsistent in not providing any such "Spirit" by calling it "Breath The Holy", etc. Then it introduces "One God's Love nature", doesn't really define that but states that the earlier three (Will, Word, Breath The Holy) "express"" it, and adds at the end "which is truthfully consistent and complimentary in one singular Deity" thereby just brushing aside the pervious ideas of "plural".
Moses did not use Abba (Father) when praying to One Gd. Two later prophets use Abba for One Gd: Jeremiah 3:4 and Malachi 2:10. My Scripture study provides basis for describing Father as The Will (per Matthew 6:10) who became Father in Psalm 2:7 "today" when "The Word" (eternally being in One Gd, who was loved before foundation of the world per John 17:24) left being at the right hand of Gd to inhabit one Holy human body (uniquely begotten son per Psalm 2:7, Isaiah 9:6, John 3:16). Psalm 51:13 וְר֥וּחַ קָ֝דְשְׁךָ (Ruach Kodesh your = Breath Holy your) with New Testament often using definite article: e.g. Matthew 12:31 τοῦ πνεύματος τοῦ ἁγίου (the Breath the Holy). Lexham Theological Wordbook: Like Hebrew רוּחַ (rûaḥ), pneuma (πνεῦμα) ranges in meaning from “wind” through “breath” to “spirit”. Trying to communicate my faith in a Plural Unified Gd to someone who believes human limitations apply to One Gd, our creator, is challenging ("mumble jumble confusion of terms" reflects your firmly held belief opinion of what cannot be so these terms used together to describe One Gd appears ludicrous to you).
@Wolfgang You have THREE DEITIES ... and nothing you say or claim changes that plain fact!!! You use the term "voices" because you don't like the term "persons" - apparently because you think with "voices" your THREE DEITIES would be hidden more easily and readers would not notice the self-contradiction to your "one singular Deity"
Could your belief be more important to you than Truth ? Your words are your own, showing your faith belief limitation. Appears you understand monotheism and tritheism, but believe a Plural Unified God being polyphonic is impossible, whose "plain fact" literally contradicts Scripture Truth.
Many verses can be found in Logos Bible Software by searching Bibles for: voice WITHIN 3 WORDS from WITHIN 3 WORDS heaven while changing search to person WITHIN 3 WORDS from WITHIN 3 WORDS heaven finds one verse in one English translation John 3:31-36 (GWT) “The person who comes from above is superior to everyone. I, a person from the earth, know nothing but what is on earth, and that’s all I can talk about. The person who comes from heaven is superior to everyone and tells what he has seen and heard. Yet, no one accepts what he says. I have accepted what that person said, and I have affirmed that God is truthful. The man whom God has sent speaks God’s message. After all, God gives him the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves his Son and has put everything in his power. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, he will see God’s constant anger.”
Hebrew has a mixture of singular and *plural* words referring to One Gd: Ge 1.26 (let *us* *make* man in *our* image), Ge 3.22 (as one of *us*), Ge 11:7 (let *us* *go* *down* and *confuse*), Dt 6.4 (Hear Israel, Yahweh our *God* is unique), Is 43.9 (to *us*), Is 54.5 (For your husband is your *maker*, his name is Yahweh of hosts; and your redeemer is the holy one of Israel, he is called *the* *God* of all of the earth), Je 30:5 (Yahweh says, *We* have heard), Ps 58.12 (*Elohim* judges), Job 35.10 (Where is God my *Maker*).
Sometimes Hebrew has אֱל֣וֹהַ (Elohe singular) for One Gd (Dt 32.15, Dt 32.17, Jb 35.10) instead of אֱלֹהִ֖ים (Elohim plural) for One Gd. Dt 32.17 is an example use of אֱלֹהִ֖ים referring to gods (whom they had not known). Psalm 82 includes אֱלֹהִ֖ים referring to One Gd (in the divine assembly) plus later אֱלֹהִ֖ים referring to mortals (appointed by One Gd to be judges and magistrates). 2 Ch 31.15 "Do not put trust in him, for no god of any nation and kingdom has been able to save his people from my hand and from the hand of my ancestors." boast by Sennacherib uses elohe for god.
@Wolfgang You simply hold to the faith belief of the traditional church's Holy Trinity dogma from the 4th century councils ...
Fantasy assertion lacks factual basis (so states your intensely held opinion). Noticed some earlier questions in this thread lack engagement:
Hebrew Holy Name יהוה YHVH <Lemma = lbs/he/יהוה> was translated into the Septuagint, LXX Swete, as κυριος Lord (6076) or θεος Gd (247). Could Gd in John 17:3 be truly consistent with John 17:11 Holy Father, you have given me your name; (with John 10:30 meaning "I and The Father are One" Gd having One Name) ? If Jesus is not Gd (only a special man), how could Jesus truly know the only True Gd before the world began ?
How could Jesus pray "believe in me" (not believe in Father nor believe in Gd) ? while knowing the Ten Commandents begins with Exodus 20:2-3 (NLT) “I am the Lord your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of your slavery. “You must not have any other god but me. & Isaiah 43:10 (NLT) “But you are my witnesses, O Israel!” says the Lord. “You are my servant. You have been chosen to know me, believe in me, and understand that I alone am God. There is no other God—there never has been, and there never will be.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus posted
@Wolfgang You have THREE DEITIES ... and nothing you say or claim changes that plain fact!!! You use the term "voices" because you don't like the term "persons" - apparently because you think with "voices" your THREE DEITIES would be hidden more easily and readers would not notice the self-contradiction to your "one singular Deity"
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Could your belief be more important to you than Truth ?
As far as I am concerned, TRUTH is always more important than anyone's belief. However, you constantly equate your belief with truth and when your belief is pointed out to be not in harmony with simple truth of Scripture, you accuse those who point it out to you as just going by their belief.
Your words are your own, showing your faith belief limitation.
another lousy excuse and evasion tactic in your repertoire.
Appears you understand monotheism and tritheism, but believe a Plural Unified God being polyphonic is impossible, whose "plain fact" literally contradicts Scripture Truth.
There is no such construct in Scripture as "Plural Unified God" .... the true God is only ONE, not two unified, not three unified, not more unified. This truth is totally independent of what anyone of us believes.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus How could Jesus pray "believe in me" (not believe in Father nor believe in Gd) ?
?? should we not believe that the man Christ Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, the one whom God sent to be savior and lord?
while knowing the Ten Commandents begins with Exodus 20:2-3 (NLT) “I am the Lord your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of your slavery. “You must not have any other god but me. & Isaiah 43:10 (NLT) “But you are my witnesses, O Israel!” says the Lord. “You are my servant. You have been chosen to know me, believe in me, and understand that I alone am God. There is no other God—there never has been, and there never will be.
Yes ... so then, why do YOU make Jesus to be God ?? Why do you have TWO Who you claim are both God ... don't you realize that your idea of Father and Son each being God, actually makes for either two Gods or each only one half of one God??
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus posted
@Wolfgang You have THREE DEITIES ... and nothing you say or claim changes that plain fact!!! You use the term "voices" because you don't like the term "persons" - apparently because you think with "voices" your THREE DEITIES would be hidden more easily and readers would not notice the self-contradiction to your "one singular Deity"
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Could your belief be more important to you than Truth ?
@Wolfgang As far as I am concerned, TRUTH is always more important than anyone's belief. However, you constantly equate your belief with truth and when your belief is pointed out to be not in harmony with simple truth of Scripture, you accuse those who point it out to you as just going by their belief.
Praying and hoping for your own words "As far as I am concerned, TRUTH is always more important than anyone's belief." to help you seek the Truth of who Jesus is according to Scripture, enabling you to experience the wondrous magnitude of יהוה Yahweh Gd's Love.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Your words are your own, showing your faith belief limitation.
@Wolfgang another lousy excuse and evasion tactic in your repertoire.
Please answer Scripture questions concerning "The Word" (Jesus):
- Could Gd in John 17:3 be truly consistent with John 17:11 Holy Father, you have given me your name; (with John 10:30 meaning "I and The Father are One" Gd having One Name) ?
- If Jesus is not Gd (only a special man), how could Jesus truly know the only True Gd before the world began (per John 17:5 and John 17:24) ?
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Appears you understand monotheism and tritheism, but believe a Plural Unified God being polyphonic is impossible, whose "plain fact" literally contradicts Scripture Truth.
@Wolfgang There is no such construct in Scripture as "Plural Unified God" .... the true God is only ONE, not two unified, not three unified, not more unified. This truth is totally independent of what anyone of us believes.
Scripture having singular and plural words for One Gd simply disagrees with 'There is no such construct in Scripture as "Plural Unified God"': Ge 1.26 (let us make man in our image), Ge 3.22 (as one of us), Ge 11:7 (let us go down and confuse), Dt 6.4 (Hear Israel, Yahweh our God is unique), Is 43.9 (to us), Is 54.5 (For your husband is your maker, his name is Yahweh of hosts; and your redeemer is the holy one of Israel, he is called the God of all of the earth), Je 30:5 (Yahweh says, *We* have heard), Ps 58.12 (*Elohim* judges), Job 35.10 (Where is God my *Maker*).
From a human perspective, do agree with you about One Gd always being True, Holy, Righteous, Love, Joy, Peace, Patient, Kind, Good, Faithful, &. Judges ends with "every man did that which was right in his own eyes." that is still applicable today (sad since human heart is deceitfully wicked from inheriting sin nature from Adam so the only way out is choosing to repent from our selfishness to Love Gd with everything we are/have). Thankful for Gd lovingly helping me to truthfully change to become Holy as Gd is Holy 😍Every day has spiritual warfare as the prince of the power of this air never gives up wanting to disrupt human Love relationship in Gd (at times is challenging to bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, easier to do when truly know Jesus is יהוה Yahweh Gd, who choose to die on the cross as a Holy substitute for our sins).
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus How could Jesus pray "believe in me" (not believe in Father nor believe in Gd) ?
@Wolfgang ?? should we not believe that the man Christ Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, the one whom God sent to be savior and lord?
Are you advocating belief in two gods: the man Jesus (as one sent from Gd who cannot be Gd) and Gd ? John 17:20 is consistent with John 14:1 (AV) ye believe in God, believe also in me. (Jesus simply commands to believe in Jesus the same as to believe in Gd).
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus while knowing the Ten Commandents begins with Exodus 20:2-3 (NLT) “I am the Lord your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of your slavery. “You must not have any other god but me. & Isaiah 43:10 (NLT) “But you are my witnesses, O Israel!” says the Lord. “You are my servant. You have been chosen to know me, believe in me, and understand that I alone am God. There is no other God—there never has been, and there never will be.
@Wolfgang Yes ... so then, why do YOU make Jesus to be God ?? Why do you have TWO Who you claim are both God ... don't you realize that your idea of Father and Son each being God, actually makes for either two Gods or each only one half of one God??
Humanly a father and a son are two people, who are independent of each other so their actions will be judged individually by One Gd. In contrast, Jesus (The Word) was having Gd's Glory (John 17:5) and Loved by Father (John 17:24) before the world began. One Gd planned for The Word (voice) of One Gd to dwell in human flesh. Scripture oddity is "today" in Psalm 2:7 showing Father & Son references to One Gd began long after the world was created. One Gd's Heart, Soul, Spirit, Strength, Name is so intricately intertwined in One Gd that each Deity voice is always being eternal Gd while the fullness of One Gd is the Three (plural) voices unified together in Love. Gd is Love: 1 John 4:8 & 1 John 4.16
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Please answer Scripture questions concerning "The Word" (Jesus):
(1) your questions are YOUR questions, not Scripture questions
(2) I have answered your questions plenty of times IN DETAIL and FROM SCRIPTURE.
Are you advocating belief in two gods: the man Jesus (as one sent from Gd who cannot be Gd) and Gd ?
Contrary to your belief in the man Jesus being one of three united Gods in some "God-community", I believe in God being only One, Who is Spirit (cp Joh 4:24) and not a man . The Messiah Jesus is not God but is a man, conceived in and born of a woman (cp Mat 1:18ff, Luk 1:35ff. Gal 4:4).
Simple, plain and clear Scripture truth ... with no further questions that would indicate a "group-God" / "God-Trio" / "God community {team, family, club, etc}" ....
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Gd's design for humans is binocular vision so two images (one from each eye) is merged into one image with three dimensional depth. A relative choose laser eye surgery option of one eye adjusted for reading near with other eye adjusted for distant vision, which resulted in the image from one of the eyes typically being blurry while the other is in focus (bit of a headache at times plus lacks depth perception except for a relatively narrow range from the eyes where both images are in focus).
Seeing "from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ" in Scripture as TWO distinct entities is like vision surgery so one eye is usually blurry.
Matthew 6:9 (AV) Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Father in heaven, יהוה Yahweh, gave יהוה Yahweh Gd name to The Word (John 17:11, Isaiah 9:6, Jeremiah 23:5-6) so believing Jesus is only a special human (distinct from יהוה Yahweh) disrespects יהוה Yahweh name. Human selfish actions (sin) also disrespect יהוה Yahweh name.
My faith belief sees "from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ" in Scripture as a greeting from One Gd having tremendous depth.
Father has a voice and Jesus has a voice. Two faith belief views have been expressed in this thread about voice relationship:
@Wolfgang ?? should we not believe that the man Christ Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, the one whom God sent to be savior and lord?
@Wolfgang I believe in God being only One, Who is Spirit (cp Joh 4:24) and not a man . The Messiah Jesus is not God but is a man, conceived in and born of a woman (cp Mat 1:18ff, Luk 1:35ff. Gal 4:4).
Advocates believing in TWO distinct entities: the man Jesus (as savior and lord) and Gd, which expresses disrespect to יהוה Yahweh name along with heart not Loving Gd with all that you are (since a portion of your love goes to savior and lord) so disobeys Deuteronomy 6:4-6 (AV) Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
My faith belief recognizes The Word (Jesus) was having Gd's Glory (John 17:5) and Loved by Father (John 17:24) before the foundation of the world so the two voices appear to me merged together in One Gd for expressing יהוה Yahweh's Love. Believing the Truth of The Word (Jesus, Yeshua, יהוה Salvation) being eternally יהוה Yahweh (while fullness of יהוה Yahweh includes Father & Breath The Holy voices) is consistent with Scripture.
Concerning conception and birth of The Messiah, please remember Isaiah 9:1-7 and Matthew 4:12-17 for Great Light and especially Isaiah 9:6 (AV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: And the government shall be upon his shoulder: And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Humanly impossible for a son to be The everlasting Father, but One Gd planned before creation for The Word (Spirit portion of One Gd) to leave Gd's Throne to dwell in a Holy human body for Joyful purpose of being Holy substitute sacrifice for sin so believing in Jesus as יהוה Yahweh Gd along with confessing our sin (agreeing with Gd) allows The Holy, Just, Righteous Gd to forgive us and cleanse us from unrighteousness 😍
Keep Smiling
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Seeing "from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ" in Scripture as TWO distinct entities is like vision surgery so one eye is usually blurry.
You are the one who has more than just a blurred vision ... if a Father and a Son are not distinct entities for you, you have more than just a vision problem.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Seeing "from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ" in Scripture as TWO distinct entities is like vision surgery so one eye is usually blurry.
@Wolfgang You are the one who has more than just a blurred vision ... if a Father and a Son are not distinct entities for you, you have more than just a vision problem.
Within יהוה Yahweh Gd's Love commUnity, Three Deity voices have distinct roles while always being One Gd. The Will (strategic/tactical direction & timing) became Father when The Word (Holy Spiritual food & Gd's Priestly King of Righteousness: substitute sacrifice for sin) humbly left Gd's throne for Holy conception inside the virgin Mary (zygote had Holy human body with The Word's portion of Gd's Spirit so the one fertilized cell that grew into a man was physically human while spiritually Gd = τὸν μονογενῆ, the only begotten) so "today" prophecy in Psalm 2:7 was fulfilled. Breath The Holy is spiritually everywhere. Thankful for Breath The Holy's loving thoughts, which has included His Presence while helping me remember a specific sin for my confession, cleansing, and Holy healing. Human mind allows past hurts (sins) to be consciously suppressed, but those hurts affect human belief with subsequent action so hurting people hurt people. Healed people heal people. Loving people Love people.
Thankful to see the image of יהוה Yahweh Gd in every person. You're Special. Gd Loves You. Does Gd like our sin ? No. יהוה Yahweh Gd Loves Us.
Thankful for hours of peaceful prayer & communion in Gd's commUnity of Love (1 Thessalonians 5 has many imperative verbs in verses 11-26).
As a grateful believer who struggles with personal relationships, can describe myself as a "silver haired terrible two" from some childhood pains that have negatviely affected (hurt) many people. Thankful for John 15:1-2 (AV) "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit." so some of my prayers ask Gd for help with my past hurts (sins). Gd chooses the timing when to cut with His pruning shears so my tears are followed by Holy Healing with Joy in Gd beyond what my words can express. While Thankful for past intensity of Joy, am learning Gd's Love is much more 😍
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Within יהוה Yahweh Gd's Love commUnity, Three Deity voices have distinct roles while always being One Gd.
Simple problem is that the true God of the Bible is NOT a community, no matter how often you repeat your fantasy construction of voices or roles, etc .... The true God is a singular God (a "HE", not a "THEY"), ans God is NEVER spoken of as being anyone's Son.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Within יהוה Yahweh Gd's Love commUnity, Three Deity voices have distinct roles while always being One Gd.
@Wolfgang Simple problem is that the true God of the Bible is NOT a community, no matter how often you repeat your fantasy construction of voices or roles, etc .... The true God is a singular God (a "HE", not a "THEY"), ans God is NEVER spoken of as being anyone's Son.
Dogmatic 'NOT a community' belief disagrees with Priestly prayer of Jesus in John 17 where Jesus was having Gd's Glory (John 17:5) and Loved by Father (John 17:24) before the foundation of the world so יהוה Yahweh Gd's Love commUnity existed before Gd (plural) said: "Let there be light!"
Don't believe => can't see Scripture using singular & plural words for יהוה Yahweh Gd, which simply disagrees with '(a "HE", not a "THEY")' belief: Ge 1.26 (let us make man in our image), Ge 3.22 (as one of us), Ge 11:7 (let us go down and confuse), Dt 6.4 (Hear Israel, Yahweh our God is unique), Is 43.9 (to us), Is 54.5 (For your husband is your maker, his name is Yahweh of hosts; and your redeemer is the holy one of Israel, he is called the God of all of the earth), Je 30:5 (Yahweh says, We have heard), Ps 58.12 (Elohim judges), Job 35.10 (Where is God my Maker).
Elihu speaking in Job 35:10 uses Elohe אֱל֣וֹהַּ (singular) for Gd while verbal participle Maker is plural (with singular suffixed pronoun for my).
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Dogmatic 'NOT a community' belief disagrees with Priestly prayer of Jesus in John 17 where Jesus was having Gd's Glory (John 17:5) and Loved by Father (John 17:24) before the foundation of the world so יהוה Yahweh Gd's Love commUnity existed before Gd (plural) said: "Let there be light!"
Yes .. Biblical doctrine disagrees with YOUR ideas about Jesus' prayer as recorded in John 17. There is NOTHING in Jesus' words about a THREE DEITY VOICES LOVE COMMUNITY anywhere to be found ... such is solely in YOUR fanatsy interpretation. There were no plural Gods (which would be the correct wording, as your "God (plural)" is in itself already false) in Gen 1 saying "Let there be light!" God is a singular entity, not a PLURAL "Voices" construct, as the text plainly states by using singular verbs throughout.
But then, keep dreaming 😀 ... YOU carry the responsibility for your fantasy folly which you teach as supposedly true doctrine, when it is solely your private interpretation.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus One Gd has One Heart, One Soul, One Spirit, One Name intimately shared by Three Deity Voices (simultaneous roles): The Will (Father), The Word (Son), Breath The Holy to express One Gd's Love nature, which is truthfully consistent and complimentary in one singular Deity.
In other words what you are trying to communicate is something along the lines of 'Synonymous Modalism'.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Dogmatic 'NOT a community' belief disagrees with Priestly prayer of Jesus in John 17 where Jesus was having Gd's Glory (John 17:5) and Loved by Father (John 17:24) before the foundation of the world so יהוה Yahweh Gd's Love commUnity existed before Gd (plural) said: "Let there be light!"
@Wolfgang Yes .. Biblical doctrine disagrees with YOUR ideas about Jesus' prayer as recorded in John 17. There is NOTHING in Jesus' words about a THREE DEITY VOICES LOVE COMMUNITY anywhere to be found ... such is solely in YOUR fanatsy interpretation. There were no plural Gods (which would be the correct wording, as your "God (plural)" is in itself already false) in Gen 1 saying "Let there be light!" God is a singular entity, not a PLURAL "Voices" construct, as the text plainly states by using singular verbs throughout.
Logos Bible Software Morph Search <Person God> INTERSECTS <LogosMorphHeb ~ V????P???> in the Lexham Hebrew Bible found 41 verses having plural verbs for One Gd, starting wtih Genesis 1:26 (AV) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
Elihu speaking in Job 35:10 uses Elohe אֱל֣וֹהַּ (singular) for Gd while verbal participle Maker is plural (with singular suffixed pronoun for my).
Belief "God is a singular entity" causes thousands of plural words for One Gd to appear in your eyes as having a syntactic force of singular so cannot challenge your belief, which is a fantasy of circular reasoning: don't believe = can't see what Scripture simply says: One Plural Unified Gd. Logos Bible software Morph search in the Lexham Hebrew Bible for: root:אֱלֹהִים INTERSECTS (<Person God> OR <Person Holy Spirit>) finds 2,315 Plural and 51 Singular (Dt 32.17 has <Person Any Deity> instead of <Person God> so Singular Elohe count should be 52). Searching for root:אֱלֹהִים is equivalnt to (<Lemma = lbs/he/אֱלוֹהַּ> OR <Lemma = lbs/he/אֱלֹהִים>) as Logos Hebrew Morphology has singular & plural lemma's.
Priestly prayer by Jesus in John 17 addressed specifically to Father does not mention Breath The Holy, but includes Jesus was having Gd's Glory (John 17:5) and Loved by Father (John 17:24) before the foundation of the world so יהוה Yahweh Gd's Love was being experienced when no humans existed. Jesus described the Spirit of Truth in John 16:4-15, John 15:26-27, and John 14:51-31 includes in verse 16: ἄλλον παράκλητον δώσει ὑμῖν ἵνα ᾖ μεθʼ ὑμῶν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα (another paraklete he will give you that be with you to the age). Adjective ἄλλον describes paraklete as being of the same kind as Jesus (Greek adjective heteros is used for another of a different kind). John 17:8 (AV) "For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, ..." parallels John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
A Bible Search for: <Person Holy Spirit> in the Lexham Hebrew Bible finds many verses starting with Genesis 1:2 and includes ר֖וּחַ יְהוָ֑ה (Ruach Yahweh) in Isaiah 43:10 (AV) Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, Or being his counseller hath taught him?
@Wolfgang But then, keep dreaming 😀 ... YOU carry the responsibility for your fantasy folly which you teach as supposedly true doctrine, when it is solely your private interpretation.
Concur with my responsibility for rightly handling Gd's Word (intensely want to be treating יהוה Yahweh Gd name as Holy) so praying to speak & write Gd's Truth in Love using kind words. Not like Gd's just consequences for disrespecting יהוה Yahweh Gd name and other human sin actions. Like Gd, personally have no desire for anyone to experience eternal torment whose worst aspect is dark separation from יהוה Yahweh Gd's Love.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus One Gd has One Heart, One Soul, One Spirit, One Name intimately shared by Three Deity Voices (simultaneous roles): The Will (Father), The Word (Son), Breath The Holy to express One Gd's Love nature, which is truthfully consistent and complimentary in one singular Deity.
@Mitchell In other words what you are trying to communicate is something along the lines of 'Synonymous Modalism'.
Please provide 'Synonymous Modalism' definition. My Logos search: Synonymous WITHIN 7 WORDS Modalism did not find a definition (and Wikipedia does not have a page). Did find two glossary entries (Patripassianism & Sabellianism) in "Our Legacy: The History of Christian Doctrine" by Dr. John Hannah in 2001, which are different than my One Gd description. Glossary has "Modalism: A heretical teaching that the Son is a manifestation of the one God but not a distinct person. In Modalism, God is one in person and three in separate appearances." Each Deity Voice in One Gd is intelligent with ability to choose, which is different than appearance. Breath The Holy gently teaches Truth along with convicting of sin plus praying with words that cannot be expressed humanly. Scripture voice example (with visible Breath The Holy) is Matthew 3:13-17 (AV) Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Human modalism example is a man being a son, husband, father, worker, hobbyist, friend, ... typically doing one mode at a time, sometimes two. Modalism "appearance" does not describe Jesus having Gd's Glory (John 17:5) and Loved by Father (John 17:24) before foundation of the world.
Keep Smiling 😊
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Hello Keep Smiling;
I will be happy to answer you questions. Keep in mind I am neither a theologian nor the son of a theologian. I do however have an interest in near literature, language, and Philology.
Okay...........................
Successive modalism =modalistic monarchianism or Sabellianism
Synonymous Modalism = Is a type of modalism based on the assumption that YHWH is omnipresent (= exist every where at the same time). In this theory an omnipresent YHWH can manifest himself in different ways in more than one place at the same time.
You can find reference to these terms on an anonymous bloggers blog entry dated Wednesday, 18 December 2013 :
(However, I recently discovered that there are two type of Modalist, Synonymous and Successive. Successive means the Father, Son and Spirit exist at different points, whereas Synonymous means they exist at the same time but are not three distinct persons)
Karl Barth may have (but of course not everyone agrees) held to something similar to Synonymous Modalism that some understand as modal trinitarianism
(2)https://postbarthian.com/2017/03/14/karl-barth-say-trinity-one-god-three-modes-not-persons/
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Personally am a follower of The Way, who could be called Θεόφιλος (Gd lover), who does not have a theological degree. Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) is my interpretation/application of Philippians 4:4 Χαίρετε ἐν κυρίῳ πάντοτε· πάλιν ἐρῶ, χαίρετε. Be Rejoicing ye all in Lord always, again will say, Be Rejoicing ye all. Thankful to be a human who has repented from my sins to a wonderful Holy Love relationship in Gd's commUnity of Love 😍Please remember 1 Thessalonians 5:11-25 has many imperative verbs, including Do not despise prophecies, but examine all things; hold fast to what is good. (so my human words need to be examined so can hold fast to good that pleases Gd). Thankful for Breath The Holy teaching 😍
@Mitchell Synonymous Modalism = Is a type of modalism based on the assumption that YHWH is omnipresent (= exist every where at the same time). In this theory an omnipresent YHWH can manifest himself in different ways in more than one place at the same time.
This theory has a Love challenge as several aspects of Holy Righteous Fruit: Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Humiliy, Self-Control are difficult (if not impossible) to show as an individual without appearing arrogant (like our spiritual adversary who has "I" trouble per Isaiah 41:12-17) so personally testing every thought, especially ones with "I", to bring them into obedience unto Christ (2 Corinthians 10:1-6). One Gd's three intelligent voices with ability to choose allows Gd's commUnity to express all aspects of Holy Righteous Fruit. Deuteronomy 6:4-5 (LEB) "Hear, Israel, יהוה Yahweh our אֱלֹהִים God, יהוה Yahweh is unique. And you shall love יהוה Yahweh your אֱלֹהִים God with all of your heart and with all of your soul and with all of your might." is a Scripture source for my One Gd description intimately being One Heart, One Soul, One Strength along with John 17:11, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Isaiah 9:6, and Isaiah 40:13 for One Gd Name יהוה being applicable for each Deity voice.
My apologies for an earlier reply having Isaiah 43:10 that should have been Isaiah 40:13 (so humanly proving a bit of dyslexia at times).
Keep Smiling 😊
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Belief "God is a singular entity" causes thousands of plural words for One Gd to appear in your eyes as having a syntactic force of singular so cannot challenge your belief, which is a fantasy of circular reasoning: don't believe = can't see what Scripture simply says: One Plural Unified Gd.
You are the one going in circles ... you speak of "thousands of plural words for One God", perhaps you can list 10 of those different words? I can think of one word in particular, the Hebrew Elohim ... which is used with singular verb when referring to the true God Who is only ONE singular entity (obviously as a figure of speech to emphasize HIS Majesty -- and not a community, team of more than one players) and is used with plural verbs when referring to MORE THAN ONE, plural entities, and then context always shows that the term is in such places not a reference to the true God.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Personally am a follower of The Way,
Oh, the way ( 道 )! Yes, I am familiar with 道教 pronounced as Dàojiào in Mandarin Chinese and in modern Japanese as Dô-kyô. It has been quite popular and influential throughout much of Asia although less so here in Japan. I have met some Daoist Christians too most of them were Taiwanese.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus This theory has a Love challenge ...
Not, sure what you were trying to express in the above excerpt nor the rest of what follows it. Non-the-less what is important is that you have found a philosophy that that is meaningful and helpful for you.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Belief "God is a singular entity" causes thousands of plural words for One Gd to appear in your eyes as having a syntactic force of singular so cannot challenge your belief, which is a fantasy of circular reasoning: don't believe = can't see what Scripture simply says: One Plural Unified Gd.
@Wolfgang you speak of "thousands of plural words for One God", perhaps you can list 10 of those different words? I can think of one word in particular, the Hebrew Elohim ... which is used with singular verb when referring to the true God Who is only ONE singular entity (obviously as a figure of speech to emphasize HIS Majesty -- and not a community, team of more than one players) and is used with plural verbs when referring to MORE THAN ONE, plural entities, and then context always shows that the term is in such places not a reference to the true God.
Thankful for Morph Search in Logos/Verbum Bible Software so started with: <Person God> INTERSECTS lemma:אֱלֹהִים followed by searching for plural words: (<LogosMorphHeb ~ N??P??> OR <LogosMorphHeb ~ V????P???> OR <LogosMorphHeb ~ R???P??>) INTERSECTS <Person God>
- אֱלֹהִ֗ים ʾělō·hîmʹ God NCMPA => <Person God> INTERSECTS lemma:אֱלֹהִים has 2,310 results in 2,042 verses, starts with Genesis 1:1
- נַֽעֲשֶׂ֥ה nǎ·ʿǎśě(h)ʹ let us make VaI1-P => plural verb in Genesis 1:26 (AV) And God said, Let Us Make man in our image, after our likeness:
- בְּצַלְמֵ֖נוּ beṣǎl·mēʹ·nû in · image · our P · NC-SC · RS1-P => singular noun & plural relative pronoun in Genesis 1:26 (AV) in Our image
- כִּדְמוּתֵ֑נוּ kiḏ·mû·ṯēʹ·nû according to · likeness · our P · NCFSC · RS1-P => singular noun & plural pronoun in Genesis 1:26 (AV) Our likeness
- מִמֶּ֔נּוּ mim·měnʹ·nû from|of · us P · RS1-P => plural pronoun in Genesis 3:22 (AV) And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil:
- נֵֽרְדָ֔ה nē·reḏā(h)ʹ let we|us go down VaI1-P-C => plural verb in Genesis 11:6-7 (AV) And the Lord said, ... let Us Go Down
- וְנָבְלָ֥ה wenǒḇ·lā(h)ʹ and · let us confuse C · Vaw1-P-C => plural verb in Genesis 11:6-7 (AV) And the Lord said, ... down and there Confound
- צְבָא֖וֹת ṣeḇā·ʾôṯʹ hosts NCFPA => plural noun in 1 Samuel 4:4 (AV) ... the ark of the covenant of the Lord of Hosts
- צְבָא֔וֹת ṣeḇā·ʾôṯʹ hosts NCFPA => plural noun in 1 Samuel 17:45 (AV) David ... I come to thee in the name of the Lord of Hosts,
- אֱלֹהֵ֥י צְבָא֖וֹת ʾělō·hêʹ ṣeḇā·ʾôṯʹ the God of hosts NCMPC NCFPA => singular Elohe & plural noun in 2 Samuel 5:10 (AV) the Lord God of Hosts
- יְהוָ֧ה צְבָא֛וֹת yhwh ṣeḇā·ʾôṯʹ Yahweh [of] hosts NPMSA NCFPA => singular Yahweh & plural noun in 2 Samuel 6:2 (AV) the Lord of Hosts
- לָ֔נוּ lāʹ·nû (to) · us P · RS1-P => plural pronoun in Isaiah 41:21-22 (AV) saith the Lord ... shew Us what shall happen
- וְנָשִׂ֤ימָה wenā·śîʹ·mā(h) and|so that · we may put C · Vaw1-P-C => plural verb in Isaiah 41:22 (LEB) so that We may take them
- לִבֵּ֙נוּ֙ lib·bēʹ·nû [to] heart · our NC-SC · RS1-P => singular noun & plural pronoun in Isaiah 41:22 (LEB) so that we may take them to Our Heart
- וְנֵדְעָ֣ה wenē·ḏeʿā(h)ʹ and · we may know C · Vaw1-P-C => plural verb in Isaiah 41:22 (AV) and Know the latter end of them;
- הַשְׁמִיעֻֽנוּ׃ hǎš·mî·ʿǔʹ·nû declare · [to] us VcM2MP · RS1-P => plural verb & pronoun in Isaiah 41:22 (AV) Or Declare Us things for to come.
- וְנֵ֣דְעָ֔ה wenē·ḏeʿā(h)ʹ and|that · we may know C · Vaw1-P-C => plural verb in Isaiah 41:23 (AV) That We May Know that ye are gods:
- וְנִשְׁתָּ֖עָה weniš·tāʹ·ʿā(h) and|that · we may be afraid C · Vaw1-P-C => plural verb in Isaiah 41:23 (AV) That We May Be Dismayed,
- וְנִרָא weni·rā(ʾ) and · we may see C · Vaw1-P => plural verb in Isaiah 41:23 (AV) and Behold it together
- וְנֵדָ֔עָה wenē·ḏāʹ·ʿā(h) and|so that · we might know C · Vaw1-P-C => plural verb in Isaiah 41:26 (AV) that We May Know?
- וְנֹאמַ֣ר wenō(ʾ)·mǎrʹ and|so that · we might say C · Vaw1-P => plural verb in Isaiah 41:26 (AV) And beforetime, that We May Say,
- יַשְׁמִיעֻ֑נוּ yǎš·mî·ʿǔʹ·nû he caused to hear|he declared [to] · us VcI3MP · RS1-P => plural verb & pronoun in Isaiah 43:9 (AV) And Shew Us
- לְפָנַי֙ lep̄ā·nǎyʹ to · the face of · me P · NCMPC · RS1-S => plural noun & singular pronoun in Isaiah 43:10 (AV) Before Me
- עֹשַׂ֔יִךְ ʿō·śǎʹ·yiḵ [are|is] maker(s) · your VaR-MPC · RS2FS => plural verbal participle & singular pronoun in Isaiah 54:5 (AV) For thy Maker
- שָׁמָ֑עְנוּ šā·māʿʹ·nû we have heard VaP1-P => plural verb in Jeremiah 30:5 (AV) thus saith the Lord; We Have Heard a voice of trembling,
Exodus includes יְהוָ֞ה yhwh speaking יְהוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֤י yhwh ʾělō·hêʹ Yahweh the God of (3.18, 20:5) & יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהִֽים׃ yhwh ʾělō·hîmʹ Yahweh God (9.30)
FYI: list of different words came from first ~30 % of search results. Thought about @Bill_Coley as several plural verbs express We for One Gd.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Personally am a follower of The Way,
@Mitchell Oh, the way ( 道 )! Yes, I am familiar with 道教 pronounced as Dàojiào in Mandarin Chinese and in modern Japanese as Dô-kyô. It has been quite popular and influential throughout much of Asia although less so here in Japan. I have met some Daoist Christians too most of them were Taiwanese.
Personally not know any Daoist Christians (so not know how my One Gd's commUnity of Love compares). My identification with the Way has historical basis of Messianic Believers in Antioch. John 14:6 (LEB) Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Teaching (Didache) of the twelve Apostles (circa 70 to 150 C.E.) begins with two ways. My way choice is the way of life.
Chap. I.—Two ways there are, one of life and one of death, but there is a great difference between the two ways. The way of life, then, is this: First, thou shalt love the God who made thee; secondly, thy neighbor as thyself; and all things whatsoever thou wouldst not have befall thee, thou, too, do not to another. Now of these words the teaching is this: Bless them that curse you, and pray for your enemies, and fast for them that persecute you: for what thank have ye if ye love them that love you? Do not the nations also the same? But love ye them that hate you and ye shall have no enemy. Abstain from the fleshly and worldly lusts. If any one give thee a blow on the right cheek, turn to him the other also, and thou shalt be perfect; if any one compel thee to go one mile, go with him two; if any one take thy cloak, give him thy tunic also; if any one take from thee what is thine, ask it not back; for indeed thou canst not. To every one that asketh thee give, and ask not back; for to all the Father desireth to have given of his own gracious gifts. Blessed is he that giveth according to the commandment; for he is guiltless; woe to him that receiveth; for if, indeed, one receiveth who hath need, he shall be guiltless; but he who hath no need shall give account, why he took, and for what purpose, and coming under confinement shall be examined concerning what he did, and shall not go out thence until he pay the last farthing. But it hath been also said concerning this matter: Let thine alms sweat in thy hands, until thou knowest to whom thou shouldst give.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus This theory has a Love challenge ...
@Mitchell Not, sure what you were trying to express in the above excerpt nor the rest of what follows it. Non-the-less what is important is that you have found a philosophy that that is meaningful and helpful for you.
Thinking out loud about purpose of One Gd choosing Three Deity Voices (instead of just being one). Thought crossed my mind about a possibility of One Gd choosing to destroy everything physically so could revamp One Gd's essence into Three Voices in One, a Plural Unified Gd. One Gd has not revealed his architectural planning process to humans. Only insight into Gd's planning before creation is Jesus ( יהוה Salvation) was having יהוה Gd's Glory (John 17:5) & Loved by Father יהוה (John 17:24) before the foundation of the world (humanly not know how for Gd's Glory & Love).
Keep Smiling 😊
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Thankful for Morph Search in Logos/Verbum Bible Software so started with: <Person God> INTERSECTS lemma:אֱלֹהִים followed by searching for plural words: (<LogosMorphHeb ~ N??P??> OR <LogosMorphHeb ~ V????P???> OR <LogosMorphHeb ~ R???P??>) INTERSECTS <Person God>
I appreciate such capabilities of Logos software .... BUT (and this is a BIG BUT) one should not be fooled just because one can do all kinds of searches and produce lists of verse which supposedly support one's theological position.
You mention
ת ṣeḇā·ʾôṯʹ hosts NCFPA => pluralnoun in 1 Samuel 4:4 (AV) ... the ark of the covenant of the Lord of Hosts
While this verse has a plural noun ("HOSTS") in close proximity with the word YHWH ("LORD"), this has NOTHING WHATEVER to do with God bein "a plural God community". The word "hosts" does NOT even refer to God / YHWH, it refers to others who themselves are not God but who are under God's rule, command, etc.
Your list has no value in substantiating your claim that the true God is a community/group/team/trio united by love. The true God throughout the Biblical Scriptures is a singular and not a plural being, God is a "HE" not a "THEY"
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Thankful for Morph Search in Logos/Verbum Bible Software so started with: <Person God> INTERSECTS lemma:אֱלֹהִים followed by searching for plural words: (<LogosMorphHeb ~ N??P??> OR <LogosMorphHeb ~ V????P???> OR <LogosMorphHeb ~ R???P??>) INTERSECTS <Person God>
@Wolfgang I appreciate such capabilities of Logos software .... BUT (and this is a BIG BUT) one should not be fooled just because one can do all kinds of searches and produce lists of verse which supposedly support one's theological position.
Thankful for Berean example of searching Scriptures seeking Truth in Acts 17:10-12. Thankful for Logos & Verbum digital search tools plus printed Bibles (Thankful for paperback NLT within reach of my commode, one place for me to be quiet and know Gd) plus prayer commUnion in One Gd.
צְבָא֖וֹת ṣeḇā·ʾôṯʹ hosts NCFPA => plural noun in 1 Samuel 4:4 (AV) ... the ark of the covenant of the Lord of Hosts
@Wolfgang While this verse has a plural noun ("HOSTS") in close proximity with the word YHWH ("LORD"), this has NOTHING WHATEVER to do with God bein "a plural God community". The word "hosts" does NOT even refer to God / YHWH, it refers to others who themselves are not God but who are under God's rule, command, etc.
Searching for plural words intersecting <Person God> included a number of results for further investigation & prayer. Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear shows "of" with YHWH (1 Samuel 4.4, 1 Samuel 17.45, 2 Samuel 6.2) & Elohe (2 Samuel 5.10) for Hosts in Gd's name. Puzzled by 'The word "hosts" does NOT even refer to God / YHWH, it refers to others who themselves are not God' that contradicts context of 1 Samuel 4:4 (AV) So the people sent to Shiloh, that they might bring from thence the ark of the covenant of the Lord of Hosts, which dwelleth between the cherubims:
@Wolfgang Your list has no value in substantiating your claim that the true God is a community/group/team/trio united by love. The true God throughout the Biblical Scriptures is a singular and not a plural being, God is a "HE" not a "THEY"
Your own words show 'The true God throughout the Biblical Scriptures is a singular' belief is more important to you than יהוה Yahweh our אֱלֹהִים Gd inspiring Scripture words to express being a Plural Unified Gd => "I", "Our", "Us", "We" (Scripture simply disagrees with your 'singular and not a plural being, God is a "HE" not a "THEY"' belief). Knowing One Gd is True and consistent, seems foolish to disregard/ignore Bible search results that disagree with faith belief. Testing 'singular' Gd description by searching Scripture shows fantasy faith belief, which appears 'Biblical' to you (human heart is deceitful & stubborn). Your avatar shows the Image of Gd in you. Gd Loves you. You're Special. Does Gd like our sin ? No. Gd Loves us.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus My identification with the Way has historical basis of...
Really? I wouldn't have been about to guess that from what you wrote. Whenever I have heard people around me use the term "the way" in a philosophical/religious sense it has almost always refers to 道教. But, then again I am neither a theologian nor the son of a theologian.
Grace and Peace
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus My identification with the Way has historical basis of...
@Mitchell Really? I wouldn't have been about to guess that from what you wrote. Whenever I have heard people around me use the term "the way" in a philosophical/religious sense it has almost always refers to 道教. But, then again I am neither a theologian nor the son of a theologian.
My apologies for my earlier description without explanation. My local culture contact was some Messianic Jewish groups inside prison, who identify as followers of "The Way" referring to John 14:6. Likewise am neither a theologian nor the son of a theologian while am a Gd Lover 😍
Keep Smiling 😊
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Individual Messianic Jews I have met usually just identify themselves as יהודי משיחי ( y'hudí Meshikhi) and in the plural as יהודים משיחיים then when speaking of their faith as יהדות משיחית . Some might simply use the more traditional and general term נוצרי (Notzri) if they are a male and נוצרית (Notzrit) if they are female.Chaldean Christians I know are also called something very similar: ܟܠܕܝܐ-ܡܫܝܚܝܐ Keldaya-Msheehaya).
חסד ורחמים ושלום מאת אלהים אבינו ומאת המשיח ישוע אדנינו
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