Who Is A "Christian"?
Comments
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There is a need for truth. That is all I gave. I will not hold back truth no matter how offensive it is to some.
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Speak the truth in love. CM
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So what would you have said to Jesus when he called the pharisees vipers?
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@reformed posted:
So what would you have said to Jesus when he called the pharisees vipers?
I would have said one or both of two things:
- "Jesus, does the fact that you called the Pharisees a 'brood of vipers' mean it's okay for us to call each other 'stupid,' 'ignorant,' and 'insane,' and for us to accuse each other of not being Christians if we disagree as to what you meant when you said, for example, 'Why do you call me good? Only God is good'?"
- "Jesus, when it comes to name-calling, which many would categorize as name-calling, how does your directive to the teachers and Pharisees that only the one among them who was without sin should cast the first stone apply?"
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- I do not believe you are a Christian. You have made very clear you preach a false Gospel.
- We don't even know that Jesus actually said that. It is likely that was added much later to the account and not actually part of Scripture.
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Nothing, in light of the context.
First of all, it was John the Baptist who said to the Pharisees and Sadducees when he saw them come to his baptism:
"When he [John the Baptist] saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance" (Matt. 3: 7, 8).
The context has to do with the natural fruit of repentance. The Pharisees had an emotional experience of repentance, but the emotion had not been translated into deeds. John told them “Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance.” Verse 8.
John the Baptist’s preaching summoned Israel to anticipate the “expected figure” who would attempt to draw hearts back to God. Repentance had to take place (Matt 3:2). It was the precondition for receiving the kingdom of God. John also denounced the pretentious attitude of the Pharisees and Sadducees and called them a “generation of vipers” (Matt 3:7). Pretense and pedigree are not prerequisites for entrance into the kingdom of God; repentance is.
PLEASE NOTE: There cannot be true repentance without reformation. Repentance is a change of mind; reformation is a corresponding change of life. CM
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@C_M_ posted:
First of all, it was John the Baptist who said to the Pharisees and Sadducees when he saw them come to his baptism:
John the Baptist did indeed use the "brood of vipers" to refer to the Pharisees, but so did Jesus: Matthew 12.34; Matthew 23.33.
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Yes, I am aware, thanks. The point remains. Notwithstanding, Jesus depicted the characteristics of the Pharisees and Sadducees-- low, slimy, attractive, appears to be harmless and yet, deadly. In short, Jesus was NOT being mean, petty, childish, trying to hurt or shame. IMHO, Jesus was holding up a mirror in hope that they would see themselves. CM
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And you don't believe I was doing the same thing when I called Bill a wolf leading sheep astray? Interesting.
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@reformed posted:
And you don't believe I was doing the same thing when I called Bill a wolf leading sheep astray? Interesting.
Most of the time when I read your juvenile name-calling rants - whether I or another person is the target - Jesus is the LAST person I think of.
I acknowledge a biblical connection to your latest swipe at me, but most of the time, I find in your attacks more connections to seventh grader temper tantrums.
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Well we aren't talking about any of my other tirades. This one is the most important.
You are a wolf. A false teacher. Leading people astray. You deny Christ and who He is. I pray for your soul because if you truly believe what you say on this site you are not destined for heaven but the pits of hell. Woa to you false teacher of a different Gospel than what has been given to us.
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What's "Interesting", the OP, who is a Christian from the Bible? It's not about what Bill, may or may not be or where he, may or may not, spend eternity. Bill's posts speak for themselves. Any thoughts on the OP? CM
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Pretty sure that has already been addressed. I don't know why you are looking for more. It's not a secret. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ that God has raised him from the dead. Repent from sin, submit to Him as Lord. Confess Him.
If you don't know who He is, then you cannot possibly follow Him.
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@reformed posted:
Well we aren't talking about any of my other tirades. This one is the most important.
I am comforted by your self-awareness, reformed. Not every adult-age habitual perpetrator of adolescent outbursts has the courage to own his or her immaturity.
You are a wolf. A false teacher. Leading people astray. You deny Christ and who He is. I pray for your soul because if you truly believe what you say on this site you are not destined for heaven but the pits of hell. Woa to you false teacher of a different Gospel than what has been given to us.
I'm glad one of us is a Christian.
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Can one deny the divinity of Jesus and still be called a Christian?
Do all Christians hold to trinitarianism? If not, why not? Is there another name for them? CM
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@C_M_ wrote
Can one deny the divinity of Jesus and still be called a Christian?
What do you mean with "divinity of Jesus" ? The man Jesus is God's only begotten Son, thus Jesus is divine in various regards (divine calling, divine origin, etc.) ... Some claim that Jesus actually IS God (rather than "is God's Son"), which I deem to be a false understanding of "divinity of Jesus".
Whatever people call themselves or others is essentially irrelevant ... a follower of Christ would be one who believed in Jesus as what he indeed is rather than what people think he might or should be.
Do all Christians hold to trinitarianism? If not, why not? Is there another name for them? CM
No ... the first believers and followers of Christ whom we read of in the NT scriptures had no clue whatever about "trinitarianism" ... such a philosophy was unknown to them, Jesus never taught his disciples and apostles anything about himself being God, nor about himself forming a "Trinity Godhead"
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No, you cannot call yourself a Christian and deny the divinity of Christ. If you deny his very nature, you do not know Him.
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@reformed wrote
No, you cannot call yourself a Christian and deny the divinity of Christ. If you deny his very nature, you do not know Him.
Do you actually know what you are talking about? or are you just boisterously voicing pre-fab theological talk of others? What do you even mean with your use of the word "divinity" ? what are you talking about with "very nature"? was Jesus not partaker of flesh and blood (cp. Heb 2:14) ??
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Yes I know what I am talking about. I mean JESUS IS GOD.
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@reformed wrote
Yes I know what I am talking about. I mean JESUS IS GOD.
Thanks for clarifying. I hope you realize that with this idea you contradict and in essence deny what Scripture says the Messiah is ??
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No actually it doesn't.
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Jesus is God and Lord or not at all.
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord". Joshua 24:15 (KJV)
There are two classes only:
- Either eternal salvation or eternal damnation.
- Man is simply either Christian or "non-Christian"
- Wheat or tares.
- "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters" (Matt. 12:30 NASB).
The last time I checked, there is no "cafeteria-style" of Christianity. One can be at a certain level in his or her journey, but not in his choosing, accepting and believing Christ. Let's keep it real. CM
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Common Ground :)
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@Wolfgang said:
Jesus never taught his disciples and apostles anything about himself being God, nor about himself forming a "Trinity Godhead"
Does a mother has to teach her child or children she is there mother and she's in union with their father? CM
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Does a mother has to teach her child or children she is there mother and she's in union with their father? CM
Actually, in a functioning family she does so by various means in words and deeds.
Now, perhaps nowadays things relating to family are so warped and twisted several times over that one almost need legal and medical assistance to figure out who is whose spouse and whose parent or child
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Don't put God in your box. Deeds exceed words. See the manifestations of God (Father, Son, and HolySpirit) throughout the Bible. CM
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Have the 26 Questions in the OP have been answered? CM
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Is there no fixed definition for a Christian, and any deviation, the person or group is not Christian?
@CM said: Wolfgang, tell me, what is a Christian...? CM"
@Wolfgang responded: "To keep it really short, I think if Christian is meant Biblically, one could summarize it perhaps as "A Christian is one who believes in Messiah Jesus and follows his commandments" Some folks speak of "Christian" as a person who is a member of a "Christian" denomination/church/religious group/etc. Others speak of "nominal Christians" to distinguish those who do not practice any type of denominational/church/beliefs or activity and only by name declare themselves as "Christian" from those who participate actively in a denomination/church/etc.
Is this the only definition? Is there no other definitions from the current CD Users? If Wolfgang's definition is the acceptable standard, what does it say about those who rejects Jesus as Lord and Savior? Maybe, I should ask Wolfgang, do you stand behind your definition of a Christian stated earlier? If not, why not? A follower Christ is a Christian disciple and worships Him as Lord, Savior, and King. CM
SOURCES: https://christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/426#Comment_426
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@Wolfgang responded: "To keep it really short, I think if Christian is meant Biblically, one could summarize it perhaps as "A Christian is one who believes in Messiah Jesus and follows his commandments" Some folks speak of "Christian" as a person who is a member of a "Christian" denomination/church/religious group/etc. Others speak of "nominal Christians" to distinguish those who do not practice any type of denominational/church/beliefs or activity and only by name declare themselves as "Christian" from those who participate actively in a denomination/church/etc.
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@C_M_ MWolfgang's definition is the acceptable standard, what does it say about those who rejects Jesus as Lord and Savior?
They would not be Christians (followers of Christ)
Maybe, I should ask Wolfgang, do you stand behind your definition of a Christian stated earlier?
What a silly question ... ABSOLUTELY, I stand behind my definition given, else I would have not given it in the first place. You try and m,ake me out to be hypocrite?
If not, why not? A follower Christ is a Christian disciple and worships Him as Lord, Savior, and King.
Indeed ... the Messiah Jesus is Lord, Savior, and King. So what's your problem with what I wrote earlier?
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@Wolfgang said:
"To keep it really short, I think if Christian is meant Biblically, one could summarize it perhaps as "A Christian is one who believes in Messiah Jesus and follows his commandments" Some folks speak of "Christian" as a person who is a member of a "Christian" denomination/church/religious group/etc. Others speak of "nominal Christians" to distinguish those who do not practice any type of denominational/church/beliefs or activity and only by name declare themselves as "Christian" from those who participate actively in a denomination/church/etc.
Thanks for the definition. Whose thoughts are these?
"A Christian is one who believes in Messiah Jesus and follows his commandments"
May I assume you adopted the definition above as your own?
in addition, to be clear, a Christian is one who believes:
- "The Messiah Jesus" is? _____________________________________________
- One who follows "Christ's 'Commandments'"?
When you speak of the "Commandments", are they:
- The Ten Commandments of Exodus 20:1-17?
- Only the teachings of Jesus revealed in the revelation (the Bible)? Or
- The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17; Deut 5; throughout the NT), and all the teachings of Jesus revealed in the Bible, as "holy men" wrote under "inspiration"?
Ten Commandments, you don't find them to be outdated for today's Christians or the twenty-first century? CM
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