Heartless American 2.0

13

Comments

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,230

    Go by or call your local VFW and ask them what Trump did for USA Veterans on Veterans Day? Call several of them. Better yet, call your "White House". Don't take my word for it. Hey, ask Bill. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572

    @C_M_ said:
    Go by or call your local VFW and ask them what Trump did for USA Veterans on Veterans Day? Call several of them. Better yet, call your "White House". Don't take my word for it. Hey, ask Bill. CM

    Yes or No, do you deny the fact that the Video shows President Trump acknowledging Veterans on Veteran's Day November 11, 2018? Simple YES or NO.

    I don't need to call anyone, I have already provided evidence to support my claim which is more than what you have done. Probably because you can't support your claim.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,230

    I don't know the origin or source of the video clip. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572

    @C_M_ said:
    I don't know the origin or source of the video clip. CM

    C-Span....

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572

    Again, since you refuse to accept truth and lie about it here is the video https://www.c-span.org/video/?454288-1/president-trump-delivers-remarks-suresnes-american-cemetery Trump begins to speak around the 7 minute marker.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,230

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:
    Go by or call your local VFW and ask them what Trump did for USA Veterans on Veterans Day? Call several of them. Better yet, call your "White House". Don't take my word for it. Hey, ask Bill. CM

    Yes or No, do you deny the fact that the Video shows President Trump acknowledging Veterans on Veteran's Day November 11, 2018? Simple YES or NO.

    I don't need to call anyone, I have already provided evidence to support my claim which is more than what you have done. Probably because you can't support your claim.

    Proof!
    I was right. I will accept your apology in the next post. Thanks. CM

    Trump makes first trip to Arlington National Cemetery since Veterans Day criticism
    By QUINT FORGEY 12/15/2018 05:01 PM EST
    Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/15/trump-arlington-veterans-day-rain-cemetery-1066660

    President Donald Trump on Saturday made an unannounced trip to Arlington National Cemetery to pay his respects to deceased veterans.

    Trump's rainy-day outing coincided with “National Wreaths Across America Day,” an annual event dedicated to organizing wreath-laying ceremonies at Arlington and other cemeteries across the country.

    The president wore his trademark long overcoat and brandished a black umbrella at the grave site just one month after he was criticized for declining to visit the historic military graveyard on Veterans Day and for not paying his respects at a French cemetery for American troops near Paris because of rainy weather.

    Briefly addressing reporters during the visit, the president hailed a ruling by a federal judge on Friday evening invalidating Obamacare as "a great victory," according to a pool report.

    Trump’s trip across the Potomac River on Saturday was his first visit to Arlington since he was roundly denounced on Nov. 11 for breaking with past commanders in chief, who made the presidential pilgrimage as part of an unofficial Veterans Day tradition.

    Humble pie? CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:
    Go by or call your local VFW and ask them what Trump did for USA Veterans on Veterans Day? Call several of them. Better yet, call your "White House". Don't take my word for it. Hey, ask Bill. CM

    Yes or No, do you deny the fact that the Video shows President Trump acknowledging Veterans on Veteran's Day November 11, 2018? Simple YES or NO.

    I don't need to call anyone, I have already provided evidence to support my claim which is more than what you have done. Probably because you can't support your claim.

    Proof!
    I was right. I will accept your apology in the next post. Thanks. CM

    Trump makes first trip to Arlington National Cemetery since Veterans Day criticism
    By QUINT FORGEY 12/15/2018 05:01 PM EST
    Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/15/trump-arlington-veterans-day-rain-cemetery-1066660

    President Donald Trump on Saturday made an unannounced trip to Arlington National Cemetery to pay his respects to deceased veterans.

    Trump's rainy-day outing coincided with “National Wreaths Across America Day,” an annual event dedicated to organizing wreath-laying ceremonies at Arlington and other cemeteries across the country.

    The president wore his trademark long overcoat and brandished a black umbrella at the grave site just one month after he was criticized for declining to visit the historic military graveyard on Veterans Day and for not paying his respects at a French cemetery for American troops near Paris because of rainy weather.

    Briefly addressing reporters during the visit, the president hailed a ruling by a federal judge on Friday evening invalidating Obamacare as "a great victory," according to a pool report.

    Trump’s trip across the Potomac River on Saturday was his first visit to Arlington since he was roundly denounced on Nov. 11 for breaking with past commanders in chief, who made the presidential pilgrimage as part of an unofficial Veterans Day tradition.

    Humble pie? CM

    Except you weren't right about anything I said so no humble pie and definitely no apology.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,230

    America remains heartless in allowing a child to die in her care ["A Culture of Cruelty"-- over 1300 children imprisoned for over 20-days] when she could have been saved. If little respect is shown for a sick little girl, I can see better, the little regard for the veteran dead. :'( CM

    PS. Why is America spending approx a million dollars a day to imprison children when homes can easily be made available, some 1300 children, in about five days? CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572

    @C_M_ said:
    America remains heartless in allowing a child to die in her care ["A Culture of Cruelty"-- over 1300 children imprisoned for over 20-days] when she could have been saved. If little respect is shown for a sick little girl, I can see better, the little regard for the veteran dead. :'( CM

    PS. Why is America spending approx a million dollars a day to imprison children when homes can easily be made available, some 1300 children, in about five days? CM

    Oh stop it, the girl was receiving medical treatment. She did not die because of America. She died because of her criminal parents. Put the blame in the proper place.

    The question you should be asking is why are these illegals kept here at all? Send them out of the country, get them out. Otherwise prison is where they belong. Build the wall!

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,230

    @reformed said:
    Build the wall!

    Only if Mr. Trump would keep his campaign slogan and repeated words, "Mexico will pay for it". This "man-baby" is shutting the Govt down (hurting families, just before the holidays) because he can't have his sick way. This is shameful! CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:
    Build the wall!

    Only if Mr. Trump would keep his campaign slogan and repeated words, "Mexico will pay for it". This "man-baby" is shutting the Govt down (hurting families, just before the holidays) because he can't have his sick way. This is shameful! CM

    Protecting America is not "having his sick way"

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,230
    1. A second child died in America's care.
    2. It takes two years to visit the troops in a war.
    3. Trump is the first President to NOT to visit the troop on Christmas.
    4. He closed the gov't before Christmas hurting family. Heartless! CM
  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572
    edited December 2018

    @C_M_ said:
    1. A second child died in America's care.

    Blame the parents. The USA should not be responsible for this in any way.

    1. It takes two years to visit the troops in a war.

    What does that matter? Why should the president be visiting the war anyway? I have never understood this and the military has said they would rather the President (any president) not visit because of the logistics and distraction from the objective.

    1. Trump is the first President to NOT to visit the troop on Christmas.

    This is not even accurate. Bush didn't visit troops in 2002. Guess that blows your little narrative (lie) out of the water.

    1. He closed the gov't before Christmas hurting family. Heartless! CM

    Ok, let's be honest. Trump didn't close the government. Congress did. Nothing has been sent to Trump's desk to sign. Namely, the Democrats are the only ones not negotiating. And please, what families are currently suffering because of the shutdown? How are they hurting exactly?

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572

    @C_M_ looks like you were wrong/lied again! Trump went to Iraq on Christmas! Will you retract your lie?

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,773

    @reformed said:

    1. He closed the gov't before Christmas hurting family. Heartless! CM

    Ok, let's be honest. Trump didn't close the government. Congress did. Nothing has been sent to Trump's desk to sign. Namely, the Democrats are the only ones not negotiating. And please, what families are currently suffering because of the shutdown? How are they hurting exactly?

    In his recent oval office with Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, the following exchange took place:

    TRUMP: You know what I'll say? Yes. If we don't get what we want one way or the other, whether it's through you, through a military, through anything you want to call, I will shut down the government, absolutely.

    SCHUMER: Okay, fair enough. We disagree. We disagree.

    TRUMP: And I'll tell you what, I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country don't want criminals and people that have lots of problems, and drugs pouring into our country.

    So I will take the mantle. I will be the to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it. The last time you shut it down it didn't work. I will take the mantle of shutting down, and I'm going to shut it down for border security.

    When the president said he would take full responsibility for any government shutdown related to border security funding - and not blame the Democrats at all - was he lying?

    As for the Democrats' not negotiating, come next week, I think we'll see the Democratic House quickly pass a CR that will maintain the current levels of funding for some short period of time. It will then be up to the GOP Senate to decide whether to break with the president and propose to reopen the part of the government currently in shutdown, or maintain their alliance with him and continue the shutdown.

    Specific to the border wall, a clear majority of Americans do NOT want it built. I think the Democrats are on firm footing in refusing to fund its construction. Plus, as we all remember, during the 2016 campaign, candidate Trump told us over and over and over and over again that Mexico would pay for the wall ("100%" he said)... unless he was lying then, too.

    Do you believe he lied to us when he said Mexico would pay for the wall, reformed? He HAS lied or made false/misleading statements more than 7,000 times in the last two years! It wouldn't surprise ANYONE ("with half a brain") were he to have lied all those times.

    And speaking of Mr Trump's lies, about the latest set?

    • He told the troops in Iraq that they haven't had pay raise in ten or more years. THAT WAS FALSE. They've had a pay raise in each of the last ten years - actually in every year for more than three decades.
    • He told the troops that he's getting them a "more than 10%" pay raise for the new year. THAT WAS FALSE. The raise will actually be 2.6%.
    • He told them the new raise will "one of the biggest pay raises (they've) ever received." THAT WAS FALSE. As the chart at THIS SITE shows, there have been many military pay raises larger than 2.6%.

    Do you think the president lied when made those three wildly false claims? Or do you think he just mistook some figures he read, or that his staff fed him wrong information?

    And if it was simply wrong information, perhaps THAT'S why he told Pelosi and Schumer that he wasn't going to blame Democrats for any shutdown. Some staff member just fed him the wrong cue card!

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,230

    @reformed said:
    @C_M_ looks like you were wrong/lied again! Trump went to Iraq on Christmas! Will you retract your lie?

    No Lies. Trump left Christmas night. After two-year absent, a broken clock is right twice a day. :p CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572

    @Bill_Coley said:

    @reformed said:

    1. He closed the gov't before Christmas hurting family. Heartless! CM

    Ok, let's be honest. Trump didn't close the government. Congress did. Nothing has been sent to Trump's desk to sign. Namely, the Democrats are the only ones not negotiating. And please, what families are currently suffering because of the shutdown? How are they hurting exactly?

    In his recent oval office with Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, the following exchange took place:

    TRUMP: You know what I'll say? Yes. If we don't get what we want one way or the other, whether it's through you, through a military, through anything you want to call, I will shut down the government, absolutely.

    SCHUMER: Okay, fair enough. We disagree. We disagree.

    TRUMP: And I'll tell you what, I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country don't want criminals and people that have lots of problems, and drugs pouring into our country.

    So I will take the mantle. I will be the to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it. The last time you shut it down it didn't work. I will take the mantle of shutting down, and I'm going to shut it down for border security.

    When the president said he would take full responsibility for any government shutdown related to border security funding - and not blame the Democrats at all - was he lying?

    No. He put an offer on the table, they are the ones not negotiating. He truly did not shut down the government.

    As for the Democrats' not negotiating, come next week, I think we'll see the Democratic House quickly pass a CR that will maintain the current levels of funding for some short period of time. It will then be up to the GOP Senate to decide whether to break with the president and propose to reopen the part of the government currently in shutdown, or maintain their alliance with him and continue the shutdown.

    Then it would be the President's shutdown.

    Specific to the border wall, a clear majority of Americans do NOT want it built. I think the Democrats are on firm footing in refusing to fund its construction. Plus, as we all remember, during the 2016 campaign, candidate Trump told us over and over and over and over again that Mexico would pay for the wall ("100%" he said)... unless he was lying then, too.

    A clear majority based on what?

    Do you believe he lied to us when he said Mexico would pay for the wall, reformed? He HAS lied or made false/misleading statements more than 7,000 times in the last two years! It wouldn't surprise ANYONE ("with half a brain") were he to have lied all those times.

    I've always said that was absurd.

    And speaking of Mr Trump's lies, about the latest set?

    • He told the troops in Iraq that they haven't had pay raise in ten or more years. THAT WAS FALSE. They've had a pay raise in each of the last ten years - actually in every year for more than three decades.
    • He told the troops that he's getting them a "more than 10%" pay raise for the new year. THAT WAS FALSE. The raise will actually be 2.6%.
    • He told them the new raise will "one of the biggest pay raises (they've) ever received." THAT WAS FALSE. As the chart at THIS SITE shows, there have been many military pay raises larger than 2.6%.

    Do you think the president lied when made those three wildly false claims? Or do you think he just mistook some figures he read, or that his staff fed him wrong information?

    I'd have to look into it.

    And if it was simply wrong information, perhaps THAT'S why he told Pelosi and Schumer that he wasn't going to blame Democrats for any shutdown. Some staff member just fed him the wrong cue card!

    No, he didn't shut down the government you idiot. He made an offer, Democrats won't even negotiate.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:
    @C_M_ looks like you were wrong/lied again! Trump went to Iraq on Christmas! Will you retract your lie?

    No Lies. Trump left Christmas night. After two-year absent, a broken clock is right twice a day. :p CM

    You lied. LIAR. He still visited troops for Christmas You are very dishonest.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,230

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:
    @C_M_ looks like you were wrong/lied again! Trump went to Iraq on Christmas! Will you retract your lie?

    No Lies. Trump left Christmas night. After two-year absent, a broken clock is right twice a day. :p CM

    You lied. LIAR. He still visited troops for Christmas You are very dishonest.

    Reformed,
    Slow down! You're too emotional. There is no need to carry on this way. This is no way to make your point. Politics and Trump seem to make you a little crazy.

    The American President is a disappointment around the world. He is almost not worth talking about. He did the right thing in visiting the troops, all be it late (two years) and then he messed it up with his mindless speech (see Bill's remarks above).

    Trump is a troubled man in trouble. His days are numbered. Oh, you don't have to "look into it". If Bill said it, I have a high degree of confidence, he's right. Besides, The one who practices telling from half to complete untruths is your President. Don't try to speak for him or defend him. It's not worth it. CM

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,773

    @reformed said:

    When the president said he would take full responsibility for any government shutdown related to border security funding - and not blame the Democrats at all - was he lying?

    No. He put an offer on the table, they are the ones not negotiating. He truly did not shut down the government.

    So to get back to the question I asked: When he told Pelosi and Schumer that HE would take FULL responsibility for any government shut down, and would not blame the Democrats. Was he lying? If not, then why don't you accept his word? He said "I (the president) will shut it down." Why then isn't HE the one who shut the government down?

    As for the Democrats' not negotiating, come next week, I think we'll see the Democratic House quickly pass a CR that will maintain the current levels of funding for some short period of time. It will then be up to the GOP Senate to decide whether to break with the president and propose to reopen the part of the government currently in shutdown, or maintain their alliance with him and continue the shutdown.

    Then it would be the President's shutdown.

    Common ground.

    Specific to the border wall, a clear majority of Americans do NOT want it built. I think the Democrats are on firm footing in refusing to fund its construction. Plus, as we all remember, during the 2016 campaign, candidate Trump told us over and over and over and over again that Mexico would pay for the wall ("100%" he said)... unless he was lying then, too.

    A clear majority based on what?

    When the recent poll cited by a conservative media site says the wall is disfavored by 54-43... and that's a record high! ... we KNOW the majority of Americans do not favor the wall.

    Do you believe he lied to us when he said Mexico would pay for the wall, reformed? He HAS lied or made false/misleading statements more than 7,000 times in the last two years! It wouldn't surprise ANYONE ("with half a brain") were he to have lied all those times.

    I've always said that was absurd.

    I didn't ask whether you think candidate Trump's campaign promise about the wall was "absurd." I asked whether candidate Trump lied when he said over and over and over that Mexico would pay for the wall. I ask again.

    And speaking of Mr Trump's lies, about the latest set?

    • He told the troops in Iraq that they haven't had pay raise in ten or more years. THAT WAS FALSE. They've had a pay raise in each of the last ten years - actually in every year for more than three decades.
    • He told the troops that he's getting them a "more than 10%" pay raise for the new year. THAT WAS FALSE. The raise will actually be 2.6%.
    • He told them the new raise will "one of the biggest pay raises (they've) ever received." THAT WAS FALSE. As the chart at THIS SITE shows, there have been many military pay raises larger than 2.6%.

    Do you think the president lied when made those three wildly false claims? Or do you think he just mistook some figures he read, or that his staff fed him wrong information?

    I'd have to look into it.
    @Bill_Coley with regard to what Trump said to the troops:

    https://townhall.com/columnists/kevinmccullough/2018/12/28/trump-did-not-lie-to-the-troops-media-types-just-cant-add-n2538155

    The article to which you link is a farce.

    • Its first six paragraphs are nothing but filler.
    • The seventh paragraph accurately quotes the president.
    • The eighth paragraph leaves out an important sentence from the end of the president's claim: "Because it’s been a long time. It’s been more than 10 years. It’s been more than 10 years."
    • The best the ninth paragraph can do is declare that the president's statements to the troops weren't "completely inaccurate either." THAT'S a compelling argument!
    • Paragraphs 10-14 quote other media outlets.
    • Paragraph 16 acknowledges the falsehood of the president's contention that the troops have not received a raise in ten years, and then conjures up a purported conflation of the failure to approve troops pay raises with legislation signed in September that disentangled military pay from continuing resolutions. The problem is the president said NOTHING about said legislation - not a word; not a hint; not an intimation; not an insinuation; nothing. NOTHING the president said to the troops gave any impression other than they hadn't received a pay raise in a decade and he had gotten them "one of the biggest ones ever."
    • Paragraph 17 claims that what the president "meant" was not the same as what he said. Somehow the article's author knows what the president meant, while the rest of us linguistic infants rely solely on the words the president spoke. Hard to argue with that one!
    • Paragraph 18 claims the president at no time claimed to have "provided a 10% raise in a single year." But in HIS OWN quotation of the president, he wrote: (emphasis added)

    "Later he went on to say: "They had plenty of people that came up, they said, 'You know, we could make it smaller. We could make it 3%, we could make it 2%, we could make it 4%,'" Trump told the troops about the latest pay raise. "I said, 'No. Make it 10%. Make it more than 10%.’"

    CLEARLY YES, the president claimed to have procured a single year 10% raise for the troops.

    • Paragraph 19 wrongly attributes Trump's purported 10% wage raise to year 2018, when in context he's talking about year 2019.
    • Paragraph 20 explains the 10% number as the cumulative sum of four years' raises averaging 2.4% per year - that is, over Trump's entire first term. That's NOT AT ALL what the president said, nor how the article's author characterized the president's comment.
    • Paragraph 22 blames the falsehoods on presidential jet lag, which of course doesn't make them any less false. And the author also says Trump was not saying it had been ten years without a troops' pay raise; rather, it had been ten years since military pay was a budget item.... Silliness.
    • The final three paragraphs add nothing to the nothingness of the article's first 22 paragraphs.

    The article is a poorly assembled collection of distractions, distortions, and rationalizations. The president lied.

    And if it was simply wrong information, perhaps THAT'S why he told Pelosi and Schumer that he wasn't going to blame Democrats for any shutdown. Some staff member just fed him the wrong cue card!

    No, he didn't shut down the government you idiot. He made an offer, Democrats won't even negotiate.

    Sometimes, reformed, you write with such maturity and sophistication. Sadly, however, far more often you write juvenile inanity such as calling people idiots.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:
    @C_M_ looks like you were wrong/lied again! Trump went to Iraq on Christmas! Will you retract your lie?

    No Lies. Trump left Christmas night. After two-year absent, a broken clock is right twice a day. :p CM

    You lied. LIAR. He still visited troops for Christmas You are very dishonest.

    Reformed,
    Slow down! You're too emotional. There is no need to carry on this way. This is no way to make your point. Politics and Trump seem to make you a little crazy.

    No, you lied and refuse to admit it. Worse, you keep the lie going and try to attack me.

    The American President is a disappointment around the world. He is almost not worth talking about. He did the right thing in visiting the troops, all be it late (two years) and then he messed it up with his mindless speech (see Bill's remarks above).

    I've already disputed the fairness of Bill's remarks.

    Trump is a troubled man in trouble. His days are numbered. Oh, you don't have to "look into it". If Bill said it, I have a high degree of confidence, he's right. Besides, The one who practices telling from half to complete untruths is your President. Don't try to speak for him or defend him. It's not worth it. CM

    If your confidence is in Bill you truly are an idiot. He was wrong.

    @Bill_Coley said:

    @reformed said:

    When the president said he would take full responsibility for any government shutdown related to border security funding - and not blame the Democrats at all - was he lying?

    No. He put an offer on the table, they are the ones not negotiating. He truly did not shut down the government.

    So to get back to the question I asked: When he told Pelosi and Schumer that HE would take FULL responsibility for any government shut down, and would not blame the Democrats. Was he lying? If not, then why don't you accept his word? He said "I (the president) will shut it down." Why then isn't HE the one who shut the government down?

    Again, that was a different scenario than what we have now. So no, he did not lie.

    As for the Democrats' not negotiating, come next week, I think we'll see the Democratic House quickly pass a CR that will maintain the current levels of funding for some short period of time. It will then be up to the GOP Senate to decide whether to break with the president and propose to reopen the part of the government currently in shutdown, or maintain their alliance with him and continue the shutdown.

    Then it would be the President's shutdown.

    Common ground.

    Crazy things happen ;)

    Specific to the border wall, a clear majority of Americans do NOT want it built. I think the Democrats are on firm footing in refusing to fund its construction. Plus, as we all remember, during the 2016 campaign, candidate Trump told us over and over and over and over again that Mexico would pay for the wall ("100%" he said)... unless he was lying then, too.

    A clear majority based on what?

    When the recent poll cited by a conservative media site says the wall is disfavored by 54-43... and that's a record high! ... we KNOW the majority of Americans do not favor the wall.

    That is one poll. MOST polls it is around 51/49 which is within the Margin of Error. It is not a clear majority.

    Do you believe he lied to us when he said Mexico would pay for the wall, reformed? He HAS lied or made false/misleading statements more than 7,000 times in the last two years! It wouldn't surprise ANYONE ("with half a brain") were he to have lied all those times.

    I've always said that was absurd.

    I didn't ask whether you think candidate Trump's campaign promise about the wall was "absurd." I asked whether candidate Trump lied when he said over and over and over that Mexico would pay for the wall. I ask again.

    No, I don't think it was a lie. I think he really thought he could work it to happen. There is a difference between lying and being wrong.

    And speaking of Mr Trump's lies, about the latest set?

    • He told the troops in Iraq that they haven't had pay raise in ten or more years. THAT WAS FALSE. They've had a pay raise in each of the last ten years - actually in every year for more than three decades.
    • He told the troops that he's getting them a "more than 10%" pay raise for the new year. THAT WAS FALSE. The raise will actually be 2.6%.
    • He told them the new raise will "one of the biggest pay raises (they've) ever received." THAT WAS FALSE. As the chart at THIS SITE shows, there have been many military pay raises larger than 2.6%.

    Do you think the president lied when made those three wildly false claims? Or do you think he just mistook some figures he read, or that his staff fed him wrong information?

    I'd have to look into it.
    @Bill_Coley with regard to what Trump said to the troops:

    https://townhall.com/columnists/kevinmccullough/2018/12/28/trump-did-not-lie-to-the-troops-media-types-just-cant-add-n2538155

    The article to which you link is a farce.

    • Its first six paragraphs are nothing but filler.
    • The seventh paragraph accurately quotes the president.
    • The eighth paragraph leaves out an important sentence from the end of the president's claim: "Because it’s been a long time. It’s been more than 10 years. It’s been more than 10 years."
    • The best the ninth paragraph can do is declare that the president's statements to the troops weren't "completely inaccurate either." THAT'S a compelling argument!
    • Paragraphs 10-14 quote other media outlets.
    • Paragraph 16 acknowledges the falsehood of the president's contention that the troops have not received a raise in ten years, and then conjures up a purported conflation of the failure to approve troops pay raises with legislation signed in September that disentangled military pay from continuing resolutions. The problem is the president said NOTHING about said legislation - not a word; not a hint; not an intimation; not an insinuation; nothing. NOTHING the president said to the troops gave any impression other than they hadn't received a pay raise in a decade and he had gotten them "one of the biggest ones ever."
    • Paragraph 17 claims that what the president "meant" was not the same as what he said. Somehow the article's author knows what the president meant, while the rest of us linguistic infants rely solely on the words the president spoke. Hard to argue with that one!
    • Paragraph 18 claims the president at no time claimed to have "provided a 10% raise in a single year." But in HIS OWN quotation of the president, he wrote: (emphasis added)

    "Later he went on to say: "They had plenty of people that came up, they said, 'You know, we could make it smaller. We could make it 3%, we could make it 2%, we could make it 4%,'" Trump told the troops about the latest pay raise. "I said, 'No. Make it 10%. Make it more than 10%.’"

    CLEARLY YES, the president claimed to have procured a single year 10% raise for the troops.

    • Paragraph 19 wrongly attributes Trump's purported 10% wage raise to year 2018, when in context he's talking about year 2019.
    • Paragraph 20 explains the 10% number as the cumulative sum of four years' raises averaging 2.4% per year - that is, over Trump's entire first term. That's NOT AT ALL what the president said, nor how the article's author characterized the president's comment.
    • Paragraph 22 blames the falsehoods on presidential jet lag, which of course doesn't make them any less false. And the author also says Trump was not saying it had been ten years without a troops' pay raise; rather, it had been ten years since military pay was a budget item.... Silliness.
    • The final three paragraphs add nothing to the nothingness of the article's first 22 paragraphs.

    The article is a poorly assembled collection of distractions, distortions, and rationalizations. The president lied.

    Again, you and your liberal hack bias can't see reality.

    And if it was simply wrong information, perhaps THAT'S why he told Pelosi and Schumer that he wasn't going to blame Democrats for any shutdown. Some staff member just fed him the wrong cue card!

    No, he didn't shut down the government you idiot. He made an offer, Democrats won't even negotiate.

    Sometimes, reformed, you write with such maturity and sophistication. Sadly, however, far more often you write juvenile inanity such as calling people idiots.

    I call them like I see them. If the shoe fits you know....

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,773

    @reformed said:
    I've already disputed the fairness of Bill's remarks.

    That you "disputed the fairness of (my) remarks" does not mean that my "remarks" were inaccurate.

    If your confidence is in Bill you truly are an idiot. He was wrong.

    "Idiot" references aside, my assertions of fact were correct.

    Again, that was a different scenario than what we have now. So no, he did not lie.

    SO, when the president said....

    • "Yes, if we don’t get what we want, one way or the other — whether it’s through you, through a military, through anything you want to call – I will shut down the government, absolutely. And I am proud — I’ll tell you what, I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country don’t want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you for it. The last time you shut it down, it didn’t work. I will take the mantle of shutting down, and I’m going to shut it down for border security."

    he was telling the truth? Good. I will take the president at his word. He said HE would take the blame for the shut down HE effected if HE didn't get what HE wanted when it came to a border wall. I give the blame to him. You should too.

    A clear majority based on what?

    When the recent poll cited by a conservative media site says the wall is disfavored by 54-43... and that's a record high! ... we KNOW the majority of Americans do not favor the wall.

    That is one poll. MOST polls it is around 51/49 which is within the Margin of Error. It is not a clear majority.

    That "one poll" is the poll cited by the conservative media outlet to which I linked. Please provide links to two or three of the "MOST polls," which show it "around 51/49."

    Do you believe he lied to us when he said Mexico would pay for the wall, reformed? He HAS lied or made false/misleading statements more than 7,000 times in the last two years! It wouldn't surprise ANYONE ("with half a brain") were he to have lied all those times.

    No, I don't think it was a lie. I think he really thought he could work it to happen. There is a difference between lying and being wrong.

    If he "really thought he could work it to happen," then why has he never - not once - proposed a SINGLE piece of legislation to extract wall funding from Mexico? Why has he NEVER engaged in direct, bilateral talks with the Mexican government to negotiate that government's payment for the wall? Why has he done basically done NOTHING to get the wall paid for by Mexico, but instead asked American taxpayers to pay for it? If he "thought he could work it to happen," then why in the first two years of his presidency has he done basically NOTHING to make it happen?

    Do you think the president lied when made those three wildly false claims? Or do you think he just mistook some figures he read, or that his staff fed him wrong information?

    https://townhall.com/columnists/kevinmccullough/2018/12/28/trump-did-not-lie-to-the-troops-media-types-just-cant-add-n2538155

    The article is a poorly assembled collection of distractions, distortions, and rationalizations. The president lied.

    Again, you and your liberal hack bias can't see reality.

    I analyze paragraph-by-paragraph the article to which you linked, demonstrating the author's poor grasp of facts and apparently intentional distortions of truth. Your response is a one line, fact- and evidence free dismissal. Both your response and mine are SO characteristic of our CD posts more broadly.

    Sometimes, reformed, you write with such maturity and sophistication. Sadly, however, far more often you write juvenile inanity such as calling people idiots.

    I call them like I see them. If the shoe fits you know....

    Whether "the shoe fits," or you "call them like (you) see them," or any other bromide you can call up is true doesn't change the fact that calling people idiots in the course of discussions on a Christian forum is juvenile... at best.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572

    @Bill_Coley said:

    @reformed said:
    I've already disputed the fairness of Bill's remarks.

    That you "disputed the fairness of (my) remarks" does not mean that my "remarks" were inaccurate.

    Most of them were inaccurate.

    If your confidence is in Bill you truly are an idiot. He was wrong.

    "Idiot" references aside, my assertions of fact were correct.

    Not all of them, no they were not. My article proved that.

    Again, that was a different scenario than what we have now. So no, he did not lie.

    SO, when the president said....

    • "Yes, if we don’t get what we want, one way or the other — whether it’s through you, through a military, through anything you want to call – I will shut down the government, absolutely. And I am proud — I’ll tell you what, I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country don’t want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you for it. The last time you shut it down, it didn’t work. I will take the mantle of shutting down, and I’m going to shut it down for border security."

    he was telling the truth? Good. I will take the president at his word. He said HE would take the blame for the shut down HE effected if HE didn't get what HE wanted when it came to a border wall. I give the blame to him. You should too.

    He didn't shut down the government Bill. He couldn't have. No bill made it to his desk. He didn't have the opportunity to shut it down.

    A clear majority based on what?

    When the recent poll cited by a conservative media site says the wall is disfavored by 54-43... and that's a record high! ... we KNOW the majority of Americans do not favor the wall.

    That is one poll. MOST polls it is around 51/49 which is within the Margin of Error. It is not a clear majority.

    That "one poll" is the poll cited by the conservative media outlet to which I linked. Please provide links to two or three of the "MOST polls," which show it "around 51/49."

    Do a simple Google Search Bill.

    Do you believe he lied to us when he said Mexico would pay for the wall, reformed? He HAS lied or made false/misleading statements more than 7,000 times in the last two years! It wouldn't surprise ANYONE ("with half a brain") were he to have lied all those times.

    No, I don't think it was a lie. I think he really thought he could work it to happen. There is a difference between lying and being wrong.

    If he "really thought he could work it to happen," then why has he never - not once - proposed a SINGLE piece of legislation to extract wall funding from Mexico? Why has he NEVER engaged in direct, bilateral talks with the Mexican government to negotiate that government's payment for the wall? Why has he done basically done NOTHING to get the wall paid for by Mexico, but instead asked American taxpayers to pay for it? If he "thought he could work it to happen," then why in the first two years of his presidency has he done basically NOTHING to make it happen?

    President's don't propose legislation. That's not their job. And how do you know he hasn't had talks with Mexico? How do you know he has done nothing?

    Do you think the president lied when made those three wildly false claims? Or do you think he just mistook some figures he read, or that his staff fed him wrong information?

    https://townhall.com/columnists/kevinmccullough/2018/12/28/trump-did-not-lie-to-the-troops-media-types-just-cant-add-n2538155

    The article is a poorly assembled collection of distractions, distortions, and rationalizations. The president lied.

    Again, you and your liberal hack bias can't see reality.

    I analyze paragraph-by-paragraph the article to which you linked, demonstrating the author's poor grasp of facts and apparently intentional distortions of truth. Your response is a one line, fact- and evidence free dismissal. Both your response and mine are SO characteristic of our CD posts more broadly.

    You analyze it through a liberal lens and not reality.

    Sometimes, reformed, you write with such maturity and sophistication. Sadly, however, far more often you write juvenile inanity such as calling people idiots.

    I call them like I see them. If the shoe fits you know....

    Whether "the shoe fits," or you "call them like (you) see them," or any other bromide you can call up is true doesn't change the fact that calling people idiots in the course of discussions on a Christian forum is juvenile... at best.

    It's no different than you calling me juvenile Bill. Same tactic, different word.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,773

    @reformed said:
    Most of them were inaccurate.

    No. They weren't inaccurate. And the article to which you linked, as I showed in a paragraph-by-paragraph analysis, did not prove them so. Note that while you dismissed my critique with a one-line zinger, you have not in any way engaged its substance. Usually, when people refuse to engage the substance of an argument, as you have done regarding my critique of the article, it's because they can't engage the substance.

    He didn't shut down the government Bill. He couldn't have. No bill made it to his desk. He didn't have the opportunity to shut it down.

    So did the president lie when he said "I will shut down the government, absolutely. And I am proud — I’ll tell you what, I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck.... So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down"?

    Please provide links to two or three of the "MOST polls," which show it "around 51/49."

    Do a simple Google Search Bill.

    It's amazing how often you make claims, then expect OTHERS to back them up for you. In my view, if YOU make the claim, then YOU should back it up.

    Remember what you told CM recently?...

    • "You give words without sources. Nothing you said in your most recent "proof" for your claim was cited. And you want ME to do better? Give me a break."

    When you make reference to "Most polls," but aren't willing to link to ANY of them, aren't you also "(giving) words without sources"?

    President's don't propose legislation. That's not their job.

    Surely you know the junior high school civics class axiom: "The president proposes. The Congress disposes." That's not the ONLY way laws are proposed, of course. But YES, presidents propose legislation all the time. Only Congress can pass legislation, but presidents CAN propose it (why do we call it "Obamacare"?)

    And how do you know he hasn't had talks with Mexico? How do you know he has done nothing?

    President Trump doesn't have an unexpressed thought. If he had done ANYTHING during his term to fulfill one of his signature campaign promises - that Mexico will pay for the wall - he would have told us over and over and over again. He's been silent on the subject, which most likely means he hasn't done a thing.

    You analyze it through a liberal lens and not reality.

    Another single-sentence, fact- and evidence free zinger. Another refusal to engage the substance of my critique.

    Whether "the shoe fits," or you "call them like (you) see them," or any other bromide you can call up is true doesn't change the fact that calling people idiots in the course of discussions on a Christian forum is juvenile... at best.

    It's no different than you calling me juvenile Bill. Same tactic, different word.

    It IS different, reformed, because I DIDN'T call you "juvenile," while you DID in fact call me an idiot. Let's examine the record:

    YOU:
    "No, he didn't shut down the government you idiot. He made an offer, Democrats won't even negotiate."

    Pretty straightforward: "YOU idiot."

    ME:
    "Sometimes, reformed, you write with such maturity and sophistication. Sadly, however, far more often you write juvenile inanity such as calling people idiots."

    AND:
    "Whether "the shoe fits," or you "call them like (you) see them," or any other bromide you can call up is true doesn't change the fact that calling people idiots in the course of discussions on a Christian forum is juvenile... at best."

    Who or what did I call "juvenile"?

    • In the first post, I called "juvenile inanity" what you "far more often write" - namely, calling people idiots. I called select content of your CD posts "juvenile inanity," not you.
    • In the second post I called "juvenile" the act of "calling people idiots in the course of discussions on a Christian forum." I called your act of calling people idiots in these Christian forums juvenile, not you.

    They ARE different.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,230

    Back to the main point.

    Mr. Trump is making it hard for asylum seekers and those in search of a better life in America. This is unkind and HEARTLESS. No one gave his father, Fred, who came from Germany, a hard time like he's doing the people at the border today. Trump wants America to himself. Oh, how soon non-native Americans forget their place of origin. Ellis Island, a place, many of your grand or great-grandparents, know all about it. "Give me your hallow masses..." an inscription at the base of the Statue of Liberty donated by France to America. No wall then, no wall now! CM

    Under her stands: The Statue of Liberty

    America, be like Israel, open your arms. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572

    @C_M_ said:

    Back to the main point.

    Mr. Trump is making it hard for asylum seekers and those in search of a better life in America. This is unkind and HEARTLESS. No one gave his father, Fred, who came from Germany, a hard time like he's doing the people at the border today. Trump wants America to himself. Oh, how soon non-native Americans forget their place of origin. Ellis Island, a place, many of your grand or great-grandparents, know all about it. "Give me your hallow masses..." an inscription at the base of the Statue of Liberty donated by France to America. No wall then, no wall now! CM

    If you are going to put forth nonsense at least have your facts straight. Trump's father did not come from Germany. Ellis Island does have a wall, a natural wall of water. Try again.

    Under her stands: The Statue of Liberty

    America, be like Israel, open your arms. CM

    Israel also has a wall, so I agree. Be like Israel. Besides, the Statute of Liberty has nothing to do with immigration. Surely you know that. It was a gift from France as a sign of our friendship from our oldest ally. The inscription you mention was placed there was used as a fundraiser to build the pedestal for the statute. The only thing related the immigration with the statute itself was that it was a recognizable landmark for immigrants who were sailing here. Nothing more.

    So I get really tired when liberals try to use that as an argument. The New Collasus is not US policy or law. It is a poem, nothing more.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,230

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    Back to the main point.

    Mr. Trump is making it hard for asylum seekers and those in search of a better life in America. This is unkind and HEARTLESS. No one gave his father, Fred, who came from Germany, a hard time like he's doing the people at the border today. Trump wants America to himself. Oh, how soon non-native Americans forget their place of origin. Ellis Island, a place, many of your grand or great-grandparents, know all about it. "Give me your hallow masses..." an inscription at the base of the Statue of Liberty donated by France to America. No wall then, no wall now! CM

    If you are going to put forth nonsense at least have your facts straight. Trump's father did not come from Germany. Ellis Island does have a wall, a natural wall of water. Try again.

    Prove me wrong with documentation that the Trumps are not from Germany. Ask Wolfgang, he may have proof. What I do know, the Trumps are NOT NATIVE AMERICANS. They came from somewhere. If not Germany, where?

    Under her stands: The Statue of Liberty

    America, be like Israel, open your arms. CM

    Israel also has a wall, so I agree. Be like Israel. Besides, the Statute of Liberty has nothing to do with immigration.

    Israel has clear and declared enemies. She has sworn enemies and fought wars. No one is shooting rockets, digging tunnels to transport weapons and terrorists against America. Mostly women and children seeking asylum and a better way of life; they are not America's enemies. They mean America good, not harm.

    @ Reformed said: Surely you know that. It was a gift from France as a sign of our friendship from our oldest ally. The inscription you mention was placed there was used as a fundraiser to build the pedestal for the statute. The only thing related the immigration with the statute itself was that it was a recognizable landmark for immigrants who were sailing here. Nothing more.

    So I get really tired when liberals try to use that as an argument. The New Collasus is not US policy or law. It is a poem, nothing more.

    Israel has a heart. What can one say about America? Ellis Island is what it is to many immigrants.

    @ Reformed said: "The inscription you mention was placed there was used as a fundraiser to build the pedestal for the statute. The only thing related the immigration with the statute itself was that it was a recognizable landmark for immigrants who were sailing here".

    So what? The facts remain. The seekers of America should have a pleasant experience as those who though passed to Ellis Island. The only thing "nonsense" about what I said is you using the word, "nonsense". Be nice. There are other eyes and minds beyond yours.

    Why can't America's Southern Borders be the same as Ellis Island, a memorable place of new beginnings? I will ask Israel to send a statue. America, stop your meanness! CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    Back to the main point.

    Mr. Trump is making it hard for asylum seekers and those in search of a better life in America. This is unkind and HEARTLESS. No one gave his father, Fred, who came from Germany, a hard time like he's doing the people at the border today. Trump wants America to himself. Oh, how soon non-native Americans forget their place of origin. Ellis Island, a place, many of your grand or great-grandparents, know all about it. "Give me your hallow masses..." an inscription at the base of the Statue of Liberty donated by France to America. No wall then, no wall now! CM

    If you are going to put forth nonsense at least have your facts straight. Trump's father did not come from Germany. Ellis Island does have a wall, a natural wall of water. Try again.

    Prove me wrong with documentation that the Trumps are not from Germany. Ask Wolfgang, he may have proof. What I do know, the Trumps are NOT NATIVE AMERICANS. They came from somewhere. If not Germany, where?

    I did not say their family history was not from Germany, it is, but I pointed out your error that his FATHER did not come from Germany. It was his grandfather. Get your facts straight.

    Under her stands: The Statue of Liberty

    America, be like Israel, open your arms. CM

    Israel also has a wall, so I agree. Be like Israel. Besides, the Statute of Liberty has nothing to do with immigration.

    Israel has clear and declared enemies. She has sworn enemies and fought wars. No one is shooting rockets, digging tunnels to transport weapons and terrorists against America. Mostly women and children seeking asylum and a better way of life; they are not America's enemies. They mean America good, not harm.

    We catch terrorists at the southern border all the time. Again, you are wrong. And you do not mean America good if your first act is to break its laws. You do not mean America good if you have no way of supporting yourself and you come to mooch off the system.

    @ Reformed said: Surely you know that. It was a gift from France as a sign of our friendship from our oldest ally. The inscription you mention was placed there was used as a fundraiser to build the pedestal for the statute. The only thing related the immigration with the statute itself was that it was a recognizable landmark for immigrants who were sailing here. Nothing more.

    So I get really tired when liberals try to use that as an argument. The New Collasus is not US policy or law. It is a poem, nothing more.

    Israel has a heart. What can one say about America? Ellis Island is what it is to many immigrants.

    You ignored the issue....

    @ Reformed said: "The inscription you mention was placed there was used as a fundraiser to build the pedestal for the statute. The only thing related the immigration with the statute itself was that it was a recognizable landmark for immigrants who were sailing here".

    So what? The facts remain. The seekers of America should have a pleasant experience as those who though passed to Ellis Island. The only thing "nonsense" about what I said is you using the word, "nonsense". Be nice. There are other eyes and minds beyond yours.

    I gave you a history lesson. You can't dispute any of the things I said.

    Why can't America's Southern Borders be the same as Ellis Island, a memorable place of new beginnings? I will ask Israel to send a statue. America, stop your meanness! CM

    Because the southern border isn't surrounded by water. Security is not mean. Do you leave your door open and let anyone in for any reason at any time? If not, then you have no right to lecture America.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,230

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    If you are going to put forth nonsense at least have your facts straight. Trump's father did not come from Germany. Ellis Island does have a wall, a natural wall of water. Try again.

    Prove me wrong with documentation that the Trumps are not from Germany. Ask Wolfgang, he may have proof. What I do know, the Trumps are NOT NATIVE AMERICANS. They came from somewhere. If not Germany, where?

    I did not say their family history was not from Germany, it is, but I pointed out your error that his FATHER did not come from Germany. It was his grandfather. Get your facts straight.

    If your information true (although you haven't given any facts or documents), you're being wise in your own eyes. At any rate, thanks for admitting to the truth, albeit, reluctantly, by majoring in minors. The main point is if Trump's father was that little boy who died at the border the other day, history would have been much different today. The little boy who died at the border, his family history will be different. You never know, that little boy's child or grandchild could have been President of the USA like Trump is now. Trump's grandfather made it through, Trump's father Fred was born here and then, "the Donald". This is the point I was making.

    Under her stands: The Statue of Liberty

    America, be like Israel, open your arms. CM

    Israel also has a wall, so I agree. Be like Israel. Besides, the Statute of Liberty has nothing to do with immigration.

    Israel has clear and declared enemies. She has sworn enemies and fought wars.

    No one is shooting rockets, digging tunnels to transport weapons and terrorists against America. Mostly women and children seeking asylum and a better way of life; they are not America's enemies. They mean America good, not harm.

    We catch terrorists at the southern border all the time. Again, you are wrong. And you do not mean America good if your first act is to break its laws. You do not mean America good if you have no way of supporting yourself and you come to mooch off the system.

    You're wrong! People come to work, willing to work, and will work for less than minimum wages, any kind of work. Trump, your President, has used many of them; made his bed on his properties and construction workers, undocumented workers. Shame!

    @ Reformed said: Surely you know that. It was a gift from France as a sign of our friendship from our oldest ally. The inscription you mention was placed there was used as a fundraiser to build the pedestal for the statute. The only thing related the immigration with the statute itself was that it was a recognizable landmark for immigrants who were sailing here. Nothing more.

    So I get really tired when liberals try to use that as an argument. The New Collasus is not US policy or law. It is a poem, nothing more.

    Israel has a heart. What can one say about America? Ellis Island is what it is to many immigrants.

    You ignored the issue....

    Heartlessness is heartless, whether its "US policy, law, or a poem".

    @ Reformed said: "The inscription you mention was placed there was used as a fundraiser to build the pedestal for the statute. The only thing related the immigration with the statute itself was that it was a recognizable landmark for immigrants who were sailing here".

    So what? The facts remain. The seekers of America should have a pleasant experience as those who though passed to Ellis Island. The only thing "nonsense" about what I said is you using the word, "nonsense". Be nice. There are other eyes and minds beyond yours.

    I gave you a history lesson. You can't dispute any of the things I said.

    I did. I will give your anemic and narrow vision efforts credit.

    Why can't America's Southern Borders be the same as Ellis Island, a memorable place of new beginnings? I will ask Israel to send a statue. America, stop your meanness! CM

    Because the southern border isn't surrounded by water. Security is not mean. Do you leave your door open and let anyone in for any reason at any time? If not, then you have no right to lecture America.

    Hyperbole! Stop the meanness! You don't need to support such ugliness at the Southern Borders. Your people came from someplace else. You're not Native American. What are you and others are so afraid of-- mothers and children seeking better themselves and families? CM

    PS. You don't think God is with any of those at the border? CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,572

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    If you are going to put forth nonsense at least have your facts straight. Trump's father did not come from Germany. Ellis Island does have a wall, a natural wall of water. Try again.

    Prove me wrong with documentation that the Trumps are not from Germany. Ask Wolfgang, he may have proof. What I do know, the Trumps are NOT NATIVE AMERICANS. They came from somewhere. If not Germany, where?

    I did not say their family history was not from Germany, it is, but I pointed out your error that his FATHER did not come from Germany. It was his grandfather. Get your facts straight.

    If your information true (although you haven't given any facts or documents), you're being wise in your own eyes. At any rate, thanks for admitting to the truth, albeit, reluctantly, by majoring in minors. The main point is if Trump's father was that little boy who died at the border the other day, history would have been much different today. The little boy who died at the border, his family history will be different. You never know, that little boy's child or grandchild could have been President of the USA like Trump is now. Trump's grandfather made it through, Trump's father Fred was born here and then, "the Donald". This is the point I was making.

    That's an invalid point. The reason that child died is because his parents decided to take a perilous journey and break American law. That has nothing to do with Donald Trump.

    Under her stands: The Statue of Liberty

    America, be like Israel, open your arms. CM

    Israel also has a wall, so I agree. Be like Israel. Besides, the Statute of Liberty has nothing to do with immigration.

    Israel has clear and declared enemies. She has sworn enemies and fought wars.

    No one is shooting rockets, digging tunnels to transport weapons and terrorists against America. Mostly women and children seeking asylum and a better way of life; they are not America's enemies. They mean America good, not harm.

    We catch terrorists at the southern border all the time. Again, you are wrong. And you do not mean America good if your first act is to break its laws. You do not mean America good if you have no way of supporting yourself and you come to mooch off the system.

    You're wrong! People come to work, willing to work, and will work for less than minimum wages, any kind of work. Trump, your President, has used many of them; made his bed on his properties and construction workers, undocumented workers. Shame!

    Proof?

    @ Reformed said: Surely you know that. It was a gift from France as a sign of our friendship from our oldest ally. The inscription you mention was placed there was used as a fundraiser to build the pedestal for the statute. The only thing related the immigration with the statute itself was that it was a recognizable landmark for immigrants who were sailing here. Nothing more.

    So I get really tired when liberals try to use that as an argument. The New Collasus is not US policy or law. It is a poem, nothing more.

    Israel has a heart. What can one say about America? Ellis Island is what it is to many immigrants.

    You ignored the issue....

    Heartlessness is heartless, whether its "US policy, law, or a poem".

    Security is not heartlessness.

    @ Reformed said: "The inscription you mention was placed there was used as a fundraiser to build the pedestal for the statute. The only thing related the immigration with the statute itself was that it was a recognizable landmark for immigrants who were sailing here".

    So what? The facts remain. The seekers of America should have a pleasant experience as those who though passed to Ellis Island. The only thing "nonsense" about what I said is you using the word, "nonsense". Be nice. There are other eyes and minds beyond yours.

    I gave you a history lesson. You can't dispute any of the things I said.

    I did. I will give your anemic and narrow vision efforts credit.

    You did not successfully dispute anything I said with any hint of merit in your dispute. Name one thing I said that was not factual and provide proof.

    Why can't America's Southern Borders be the same as Ellis Island, a memorable place of new beginnings? I will ask Israel to send a statue. America, stop your meanness! CM

    Because the southern border isn't surrounded by water. Security is not mean. Do you leave your door open and let anyone in for any reason at any time? If not, then you have no right to lecture America.


    Hyperbole! Stop the meanness! You don't need to support such ugliness at the Southern Borders. Your people came from someplace else. You're not Native American. What are you and others are so afraid of-- mothers and children seeking better themselves and families? CM

    Hyperbole? What part of that was hyperbole? We are not afraid of mothers and children seeking to better themselves. Nobody, not one person, is claiming that. Not one person is even wishing to keep those people out. We are just insisting that they come legally. Why are you so afraid of people having to follow the law?

    PS. You don't think God is with any of those at the border? CM

    What does this have to do with anything at all?

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