Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #1

Did Jesus Christ create himself or was he begotten by someone else who existed Before him??

  • For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

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  • Dave_LDave_L Posts: 2,362
    edited January 6

    The Father person generates the Son person, who is of the same indivisible substance as the Father, who together generate the Holy Spirit person of the same single substance. This is before God created time, space, and matter. So it is a constant static condition of the Godhead without a beginning or end.

    Each verse mentions the three persons of the Godhead. Can you spot them?

    Matthew 1:20

    But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

    Matthew 3:16

    And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

    Matthew 12:18

    Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

    Matthew 12:28

    But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

    Matthew 22:43

    He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

    Matthew 28:19

    Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    Luke 1:35

    And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

    Luke 2:26

    And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.

    Luke 3:22

    And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

    Luke 10:21

    In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

    John 1:33

    And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

    John 3:5

    Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    John 3:34

    For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

    John 14:26

    But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    John 15:26

    But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

    John 16:15

    All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    Acts 1:4

    And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

    Acts 2:33

    Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    Acts 7:55

    But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

    Acts 10:38

    How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

    Romans 1:4

    And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

    Romans 8:9

    But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    Romans 8:11

    But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    Romans 15:16

    That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

    Romans 15:30

    Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ’s sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

    1 Corinthians 6:11

    And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    2 Corinthians 3:3

    Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

    2 Corinthians 13:14

    The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

    Galatians 4:6

    And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    Ephesians 2:18

    For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

    Ephesians 2:22

    In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

    2 Thessalonians 2:13

    But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    Titus 3:6

    Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

    Hebrews 9:14

    How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    Hebrews 10:29

    Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    1 Peter 1:2

    Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    1 Peter 4:14

    If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

    1 John 4:2

    Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    Revelation 2:7

    He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

  • PagesPages Posts: 201

    @Brother Rando

    "Did Jesus Christ create himself or was he begotten by someone else who existed Before him??"

    "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)"

    Immutability and μονογενής: 

    Given that the question above has the underlying assumption that there was a time when the Son did not exist, and was therefore created, or made, by God; I straight away want to point to the eternal unchanging nature of God (cf. Ps. 33:11, 102:27; Mal. 3:6; James 1:17) and how this relates to God as Father, and the Son as μονογενής (only-begotten).

    In other words, were the Son created then as a result there would have been a period prior to that point of his creation when God was not a Father; but, this itself is completely at odds with the immutability of God. If God is a Father, then He has eternally never not been a Father according to His immutability – this will also, as a logical necessity, then require that eternally there is never not a Son in relation with his Father (cf. Jn. 1:1, 18). 

    Reasoning from God's attribute of immutability the resulting conclusion can be only that the Son is eternally (μονογενής) the only-unique Son of God the Father (cf. Jn. 1:14, 18, 3:16, 18; 1Jn. 4:9); and that means this eternal Sonship enjoyed by the (μονογενής) Son is truly by nature. The basis of which rules out the questioner's assumption that the Son is created or made - i.e., not being of the same nature.    

    In its historical use the Greek term μονογενής does not support the idea that it is conveying any meaning of biological begetting and birth; and, certainly not an idea of creating or making. This term is not derived from μόνος + γεννάω; rather, it is derived from μόνος + γένος.

    μονογενής, from μόνος + γένος is defined as having the following lexical sense:

    • 2. pert. to being the only one of its kind or class, unique (in kind) of someth. that is the only example of its category (BDAG, s.v. “ μονογενής,” 658.)
    • 2 monogenēs only (one of its kind), unique (J. A. Fitzmyer, EDNT, s.v. “ μονογενής,” 2:439.)
    • μονογενής, ες: pertaining to what is unique in the sense of being the only one of the same kind or class — ‘unique, only.’  (L&N, s.v. “ μονογενής,” 591.)

    To complete an examination of μονογενής within NT use (9x) are these final four texts (cf. Lk. 7:12, 8:42, 9:38; Heb. 11:17) where, in context, the sense continues to be as described above. 

    In addition to the NT texts above we also have five examples (late 3rd to early 1st c. B.C.) of μονογενής from the LXX:

    • “I am my father’s only child;” (Tob. 3:15 NRSV)
    • "She was his only child;" (Judg. 11:34)
    • "my only life" 2x (Ps. 22:20, 35:17) (LXX – 21:21, 34:17)
    • "an only child," (Ps. Sol. 18:4)

    And my last example comes just prior to the end of the 1st c. A.D. where the following is written of the Phoenix:

    • “the only one of its species,” (1Clem. 25:2)

    This last citation puts to complete rest the idea that μονογενής carries within it any meaning of biological begetting as the only unique one of a kind Phoenix had no parents from which it was begotten; nor was it considered as having been created or made.

    From the preceding journey of discovery into meaning and sense for μονογενής, what is readily apparent is twofold: first, it is clear that there is not a biological sense of begetting within the context and use of this word; secondly, it is again clear that not a single text in its context treats μονογενής as a lexical stand in for created or made. 

    On the positive side however, the texts cited above do give straightforward evidence that in its use μονογενής does in fact express the sense of uniqueness and singular status.

    We do get the sense of birth (beget) in texts for Jesus where a form of γεννάω (Matt. 1:16, 2:1; Jn 18:37) and γίνομαι (Ro. 1:3; Gal. 4:4) is used; not surprisingly, since Jesus is fully human, though for some of us not just merely human (cf. Jn. 1:14 ἐγένετο a form of γίνομαι is also used for the Word becoming flesh). On the other hand, μονογενής as witnessed above is descriptive of what the Son eternally is by nature – the only-unique (begotten, if you prefer) Son of God.  

    So, I want to direct attention back to the second and third paragraphs above as contained in them is the substance of my answer to the OP's question, "...or was he begotten by someone else who existed Before him??", which I will summarize below.

    In summary, it is in accordance with His own immutability that the eternal God, as Father, has eternally then never not been the Father to His only-unique Son; therefore eternally, there has then never not been the only-unique Son in relation with his Father. In other words, just as the Father is eternal, so too is His Son eternal (cf. Jn. 1:1, 18).

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