John 1:1 and the words of JESUS thruout that book!
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Repeating question for @the_MadJw => The question revolves solely on what does the WT officially say, if anything, the Greek wording of the John 1:1 third clause needs to be in order to express "...the Word was God".
Koine Greek word order in John 1:1 third clause is "and God was The Word" (καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.) that has Greek grammar rule for The Word being the subject (God is anarthrous) so English word order is "...the Word was God".
@the_MadJw June 6 It boil's down to what Christ had to say about his God- wouldn't you agree
What had Jesus experienced about God's Glory & ❤️ Love BEFORE God created the world ? (in John 17:5 & 17:24 when only God existed)
John 17:24 LEB “Father, those whom you have given to me — I want that those also may be with me where I am, in order that they may see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
John 17:5 LEB And now, Father, you glorify me at your side with the glory that I had at your side * before the world existed. * Literally "by the side of you"
Humanly I do not know how to describe παρὰ (beside, to the side, alongside) in the spiritual realm, which is a similar challenge as πρὸς (to, toward) preposition in John 1:1 that has usually been translated "with" in English. Searching my Logos library found five English Bibles that do not have "with" in John 1:1
1395 Wycliffe translation => In the bigynnyng was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the word.
1996 The Revised English Bible => In the beginning the Word already was. The Word was in God’s presence, and what God was, the Word was.
2003 translation of The Old Syriac Gospels => In the beginning was the word and the word was in the presence of * God, and God was the word.
- The word here is ܠܘܬ which does not really mean “with” (that would be the Syriac word ܥܡ), but rather it corresponds to French chez or German bei meaning “at the house of” or “in the presence of” or “associated with.”
E. Jan Wilson, The Old Syriac Gospels, Studies and Comparative Translations, trans. George A. Kiraz (Louaize, Lebanon;Piscataway, NJ: Notre Dame University;Gorgias Press, 2003).
2005 The Message => The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word. The Word was God,
2018 The Bible for Everyone => In the beginning was the Word. The Word was close beside God, and the Word was God.
Who does Jesus think He is when He prays all of God's things being His ? (& all His things being God's in John 17:10)
John 17:1-26 LEB => Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven he said,
“Father, the hour has come! Glorify your Son, in order that your Son may glorify you — just as you have given him authority over all flesh, in order that he would give eternal life to them — everyone whom you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have glorified you on earth by completing the work that you have given me to do. And now, Father, you glorify me at your side with the glory that I had at your side before the world existed.
“I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word. Now they understand that all the things that you have given me are from you, because the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they received them and know truly that I have come from you, and they have believed that you have sent me. I am asking on behalf of them. I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you have given me, because they are yours, and all my things are yours, and your things are mine, and I have been glorified in them. And I am no longer in the world, and they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given to me, so that they may be one, just as we are. When I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given to me, and guarded them, and none of them has perished except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture would be fulfilled. And now I am coming to you, and I am saying these things in the world so that they may have my joy completed in themselves. I have given them your word, and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth — your word is truth. Just as you sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for them I sanctify myself, so that they themselves also may be sanctified in the truth.
“And I do not ask on behalf of these only, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their word, that they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, that they also may be in us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me. And the glory that you have given to me, I have given to them, in order that they may be one, just as we are one — I in them, and you in me, in order that they may be completed in one, so that the world may know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.
“Father, those whom you have given to me — I want that those also may be with me where I am, in order that they may see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. Righteous Father, although the world does not know you, yet I have known you, and these men have come to know that you sent me. And I made known to them your name, and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and I may be in them.”
Truly who has life in Himself (so can raise the dead) ?
John 5:19-27 LEB => So Jesus answered and said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, the Son can do nothing from himself except what he sees the Father doing. For whatever that one does, these things also the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything that he himself is doing. And greater works than these he will show him, so that you will be astonished. For just as the Father raises the dead and makes them alive, thus also the Son makes alive whomever he wishes. For the Father does not judge anyone, but he has given all judgment to the Son, in order that all people will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
“Truly, truly I say to you, that an hour is coming — and now is here — when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and the ones who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, thus also he has granted to the Son to have life in himself. And he has granted him authority to carry out judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
Note: if Jesus spoke "the Son of Man" in Aramaic, then the only Aramaic "Son of Man" is in Daniel 7:34-14 LEB => “I continued watching in the visions of the night, and look, with the clouds of heaven one like a son of man was coming, and he came to the Ancient of Days, and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and kingship that all the peoples, the nations, and languages would serve him; his dominion is a dominion without end that will not cease, and his kingdom is one that will not be destroyed.
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You say too many things wrong.
Why not bring them out- one at a time- so we can examine them together, instead of the buckshot.
And do you really think Jesus was misleading the public?
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
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Repeating question for @the_MadJw => The question revolves solely on what does the WT officially say, if anything, the Greek wording of the John 1:1 third clause needs to be in order to express "...the Word was God".
Keep Smiling 😊
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I haven't paid any attention to the WT, since it has begun it's 'Dumb-down' policy.
Is this "'Dumb-down' policy." having effect on everything within the WT, and will you briefly explain that policy?
It boil's down to what Christ had to say about his God- wouldn't you agree- instead of resting faith in a Greek scholar?
The recorded words of Christ that we're blessed to have in our NT are indeed a wonderful asset; though, no greater or lesser than the rest of scripture (2Tim. 3:16).
You're argument above seems to be pitting Christ's words against a faith in scholarship which I believe is mistaken ideology. In general, scholarship and faith, are not incompatible with one another.
For instance, how would anyone be able to know "...what Christ had to say about his God..." or anything else written in the NT had not, in this case, someone learned and studied the Greek language and grammar, and the range of meaning for any given word individually or contextually?
Take for example the Joseph Smith translation of Jn. 1:1 I supplied in a earlier post recognizing what can happen when there is a complete lack of understanding Greek deficient of scholarship.
So then, whatever English translation one reads, that same translation in general will be based on scholarly skillsets to give a faithful reading of the original language text.
Even this quote of yours from a previous post in this thread "The word "Elohim" can mean either God, Gods, or divine." is relying on existing scholarship for that definition.
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I don't know or care, KS!
Jesus was God as Moses was.
One was WITH God. How do you explain THAT?
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
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John 5:36- But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.37-And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape.
His Father he later called him the only TRUE God! (John 17:3)
AND, the crowds saw JESUS!
(NOT God Himself)
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
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Repeating request for @the_MadJw => Is this "'Dumb-down' policy." having effect on everything within the WT, and will you briefly explain that policy?
Thank you for finally answering => The question revolves solely on what does the WT officially say, if anything, the Greek wording of the John 1:1 third clause needs to be in order to express "...the Word was God".
@the_MadJw June 7 I don't know or care, KS!
Could One unique God spiritually be the righteous King of the Universe and spiritually be inside the human body of Jesus at the same time ?
No => If believe Jesus cannot be God, then the third clause of John 1:1 must be translated "the word was a god" (reflects personal belief, which also has been stated numerous times by @the_MadJw e.g. June 2 "John 1:1 has a reference to TWO Gods.")
Yes => If believe Jesus is one voice in One unique God, then the third clause of John 1:1 is translated "The Word was God"
@the_MadJw June 6 Jesus was God as Moses was.
When יהוה described Moses as God (אֱלֹהִ֖ים) to Pharaoh (in Exodus 7:1), did Moses become divine ?
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"When Jehovah described Moses as God to Pharaoh (in Exodus 7:1), did Moses become divine ?"
Jesus was already divine. That has nothing to do with it. God inspired Paul to connect the two~
Heb 3:2- He was faithful to the One who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house.
No, neither Christ nor Moses, even tho CALLED "God" by God Himself, were not LITERALLY God- but STOOD for Him (NOT "Them").
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
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John 6:37- All that the Father gives me will come to me; and him who comes to me I will not cast out.
38- For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me;
39- and this is the will of Him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day.
40- For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
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Jesus constantly said he didn't come for his OWN purposes!AND that he had received them from GOD!
John 7:16- My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me;17- if any man’s will is to do His will, he shall know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. 18- He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but he who seeks the glory of Him who sent him is true, and in Him there is no falsehood.
John 7:28- So Jesus proclaimed, as he taught in the temple, “You know me, and you know where I come from? But I have not come of my own accord; He who sent me is true, and Him you do not know. 29- I know hm, for I come from Him, and he sent me.”
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus June 7 When יהוה described Moses as God (אֱלֹהִ֖ים) to Pharaoh (in Exodus 7:1), did Moses become divine ?
@the_MadJw June 7 Jesus was already divine. That has nothing to do with it. God inspired Paul to connect the two~
@the_MadJw June 7 Heb 3:2- He was faithful to the One who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house.
@the_MadJw June 7 No, neither Christ nor Moses, even tho CALLED "God" by God Himself, were not LITERALLY God- but STOOD for Him (NOT "Them").
How can Jesus be already divine without being a voice in One Holy unique God ?
Bible chapter & verse numbering are relatively recent additions to Bible text. Unfortunately placement of numerous numbers is in the middle of original lanugage sentences & chapter breaks in the middle of discourses: e.g. a chapter break starting with "therefore". The Lexham English Bible (LEB) is a recent Modern English translation, whose sentences show original language sentence structure. Hebrews 3:2 is in the middle of a discourse.
Hebrews 3:1-19 LEB =>
Therefore, holy brothers, sharers in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession, who was faithful to the one who appointed him, as Moses also was in his household. For this one is considered worthy of greater glory than Moses, inasmuch as the one who builds it has greater honor than the house. For every house is built by someone, but the one who built all things is God. And Moses was faithful in all his house as a servant, for a testimony to the things that would be spoken, but Christ was faithful as a son over his house, whose house we are, if we hold fast to our confidence and the hope we can be proud of.
Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of testing in the wilderness, where your fathers tested me by trial and saw my works for forty years. Therefore I was angry with this generation, and I said, ‘They always go astray in their heart, and they do not know my ways.’ As I swore in my anger, ‘They will never enter into my rest.’ ”
Watch out, brothers, lest there be in some of you an evil, unbelieving heart, with the result that you fall away from the living God. But encourage one another day by day, as long as it is called “today,” so that none of you become hardened by the deception of sin. For we have become partners of Christ, if indeed we hold fast the beginning of our commitment steadfast until the end, while it is said, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
For who, when they heard it, were disobedient? Surely it was not all who went out from Egypt through Moses? And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose dead bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did he swear they would not enter into his rest, except those who were disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.
Why is Jesus worthy of greater glory than Moses ?
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John 6:1-71 LEB (provides context for John 6:36-40 posted earlier by @the_MadJw) =>
After these things Jesus went away to the other side of the sea of Galilee (that is, Tiberias). And a large crowd was following him because they were observing the signs that he was doing on those who were sick. So Jesus went up on the mountain and sat down there with his disciples. (Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was near.)
Then Jesus, when he looked up and saw that a large crowd was coming to him, said to Philip, “Where can we buy bread so that these people can eat?” (Now he said this to test him, because he knew what he was going to do.) Philip replied to him, “Two hundred denarii worth of bread would not be enough for them, in order that each one could receive a little.” One of his disciples, Andrew the brother of Simon Peter, said to him, “Here is a boy who has five barley loaves and two fish, but what are these for so many people?” Jesus said, “Make the people recline.” (Now there was a lot of grass in the place.) So the men reclined, approximately five thousand in number. Then Jesus took the bread, and after he had given thanks, he distributed it to those who were reclining — likewise also of the fish, as much as they wanted. And when they were satisfied, he said to his disciples, “Gather the remaining fragments so that nothing is lost.” So they gathered them, and filled twelve baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves which were left over by those who had eaten.
Now when the people saw the sign that he performed, they began to say, “This one is truly the Prophet who is to come into the world!” Then Jesus, because he knew that they were about to come and seize him in order to make him king, withdrew again up the mountain by himself alone.
Now when evening came, his disciples went down to the sea. And getting into a boat, they began to go to the other side of the sea, to Capernaum. And it had already become dark, and Jesus had not yet come to them. And the sea began to be stirred up because a strong wind was blowing. Then when they had rowed about twenty-five or thirty stadia, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat, and they were afraid. But he said to them, “It is I! Do not be afraid!” So they were wanting to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat came to the land to which they were going.
On the next day, the crowd that was on the other side of the sea saw that other boats were not there (except one), and that Jesus had not entered with his disciples into the boat, but his disciples had departed alone. Other boats from Tiberias came near the place where they had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks. So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor his disciples, they themselves got into the boats and came to Capernaum seeking Jesus.
And when they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?” Jesus replied to them and said, “Truly, truly I say to you, you seek me not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were satisfied! Do not work for the food that perishes, but the food that remains to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For God the Father has set his seal on this one.”
So they said to him, “What shall we do that we can accomplish the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you believe in the one whom that one sent.” So they said to him, “Then what sign will you perform, so that we can see it and believe you? What will you do? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, just as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’
Then Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, Moses did not give you bread from heaven, but my Father is giving you the true bread from heaven! For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” So they said to him, “Sir, always give us this bread!”
Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. The one who comes to me will never be hungry, and the one who believes in me will never be thirsty again. But I said to you that you have seen me and do not believe. Everyone whom the Father gives to me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never throw out, because I have come down from heaven not that I should do my will, but the will of the one who sent me. Now this is the will of the one who sent me: that everyone whom he has given me, I would not lose any of them, but raise them up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks at the Son and believes in him would have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Now the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven,” and they were saying, “Is this one not Jesus the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves! No one is able to come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who hears from the Father and learns comes to me. (Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God — this one has seen the Father.) Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven so that someone may eat from it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats from this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
So the Jews began to quarrel among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Then Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves! The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood resides in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so also the one who eats me — that one will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not as the fathers ate and died. The one who eats this bread will live forever.”
He said these things while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. Thus many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This saying is hard! Who can understand it?” But Jesus, because he knew within himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Does this cause you to be offended? Then what if you see the Son of Man ascending where he was before? The Spirit is the one who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. But there are some of you who do not believe.”
(For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, “Because of this I said to you that no one can come to me unless it has been granted to him by the Father.”
For this reason many of his disciples drew back and were not walking with him any longer. So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life. And we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” Jesus replied to them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is the devil?” (Now he was speaking about Judas son of Simon Iscariot, because this one — one of the twelve — was going to betray him.)
To me, believing in Jesus as Lord God (with Father Lord God & Breath The Holy => One unique God) enables me to eat the flesh of Jesus & drink the blood of Jesus => His Holy Sacrifice instead of me allows me to repent from my sin & be cleansed by Holy blood shed by Jesus from my unrighteousness.
Humanly wonder how many of the Jewish disciples that drew away from Jesus later became believers in Jesus as Lord God as described in Acts 2 (Jewish festival of Shavout is 50 days after Pesach, passover).
My prayers 🙏 include me asking 'Lord Righteousness We' (name shared by Father & Jesus as it is written in Jeremiah 23:6) to help me Love all of Holy God with all of me: my heart, my mind, my soul, & my strength so I can worship One Holy God as designed & desired by our unique Holy God, which enables Holy God ❤️ Living Love to flow into me & out to others ❤️
My apologies for my lack of words to describe stepwise improvement for me becoming Holy as God is Holy ❤️ with increasing awareness of Holy God's presence in me along with ❤️ Loving well every creature immensely loved by Holy God.
Keep Smiling 😊
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Heh! Nonsensical question and then blathering from one not wanting me to list Jesus words.
John 8:18- I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness to me.
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
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Jewish religious lawyers & judges had spent years learning/mastering Jewish law & traditions, which included memorizing Torah, yet all of them failed to always be righteous according to the Law, teaching from Holy God.
John 7:14-29 LEB (provides context for John 7:16 & John 7:28 snippets of words spoken by Jesus posted earlier by @the_MadJw) =>
Now when the feast was already half over, Jesus went to the temple courts and began to teach.
Then the Jews were astonished, saying, “How does this man possess knowledge, because he has not been taught?”
So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not mine, but is from the one who sent me. If anyone wants to do his will, he will know about my teaching, whether it is from God or I am speaking from myself. The one who speaks from himself seeks his own glory. But the one who seeks the glory of the one who sent him — this one is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him. Has not Moses given you the law, and none of you carries out the law? Why do you seek to kill me?”
The crowd replied, “You have a demon! Who is seeking to kill you?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “I performed one work, and you are all astonished. Because of this Moses has given you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses would not be broken, are you angry with me because I made a whole man well on the Sabbath? Do not judge according to outward appearance, but judge according to righteous judgment!”
Then some of the inhabitants of Jerusalem began to say, “Is this not the one whom they are seeking to kill? And behold, he is speaking openly and they are saying nothing to him! Can it be that the rulers truly know that this man is the Christ? Yet we know where this man is from, but the Christ, whenever he comes — no one knows where he is from!”
Then Jesus cried out in the temple courts, teaching and saying, “You both know me and you know where I am from! And I have not come from myself, but the one who sent me is true, whom you do not know. I know him, because I am from him and he sent me.”
What does Jesus truly know about Holy God, which includes Humility aspect of Holy Spiritual Fruit ?
As a human, I struggle to imitate Holy God always. My goal is imitating Jesus with all my thoughts truly being Holy: enable me to do God's Will in God's way with God's presence. Thoughts congeal into beliefs, which show in words and actions.
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John 8:23- He said to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.
24- I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he.”
25- They said to him, “Who are you?” Jesus said to them, “Even what I have told you from the beginning.
26- I have much to say about you and much to judge; but He who sent me is true, and I declare to the world what I have heard from Him.”
27- They did not understand that he spoke to them of the Father.
28- So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the son of man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority but speak thus as the Father taught me.
29- And He who sent me is with me; He has not left me alone, for I always do what is pleasing to him.”
Two separate individuals (not 3) Jesus being taught and sent by... GOD!
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
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John 8:57- The Jews then said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
58- Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. (A mistranslation. It should read "existed")
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
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I agree. All the angels existed before Abraham was. "When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause? (Job 38:7)
Notice these scriptures about Jesus Christ?
- You made him a little lower than the angels; You crowned him with glory and honor. Psalm 8:5
- I have said, 'You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.' Psalm 82:6
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John 8 has temple context for discussion between Jewish Rabbi Jesus and Jewish Religious Lawyers (Scribes & Pharisees). John 8:1-59 LEB (provides context for John 8 snippets posted earlier by @the_MadJw & @BroRando) =>
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Now early in the morning he came again to the temple courts. And all the people were coming, and he sat down and began to teach them.
Now the scribes and the Pharisees brought to him a woman caught in adultery. And standing her in their midst, they said to him, testing him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery! Now in the law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” (Now they were saying this to test him, so that they would have an occasion to bring charges against him.)
But Jesus, bending down, began to write with his finger on the ground, taking no notice. And when they persisted in asking him, straightening up he said to them, “The one of you without sin, let him throw the first stone at her!” And bending down again, he wrote on the ground.
Now when they heard it, being convicted by their conscience, they began to depart, one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone — and the woman who was in their midst. So Jesus, straightening up and seeing no one except the woman, said to her, “Where are those accusers of yours? Does no one condemn you?”
And she said, “No one, Lord.”
So Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go, and sin no more.”
Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world! The one who follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
So the Pharisees said to him, “You testify concerning yourself! Your testimony is not true.”
Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I testify concerning myself, my testimony is true, because I know where I have come from and where I am going. But you do not know where I have come from or where I am going. You judge according to externals; I do not judge anyone. But even if I judge, my judgment is true, because I am not alone, but I and the Father who sent me. And even in your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true. I am the one who testifies concerning myself, and the Father who sent me testifies concerning me.”
So they were saying to him, “Where is your father?”
Jesus replied, “You know neither me nor my Father! If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.” He spoke these words by the treasury while teaching in the temple courts, and no one seized him, because his hour had not yet come. So he said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek me and will die in your sin. Where I am going you cannot come!”
Then the Jews began to say, “Perhaps he will kill himself, because he is saying, ‘Where I am going you cannot come.’ ”
And he said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are from this world; I am not from this world. Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”
So they began to say to him, “Who are you?”
Jesus said to them, “What I have been saying to you from the beginning. I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but the one who sent me is true, and the things which I heard from him, these things I say to the world.” (They did not know that he was speaking to them about the Father.)
Then Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will recognize that I am he, and I do nothing from myself, but just as the Father taught me, I say these things. And the one who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, because I always do the things that are pleasing to him.”
While he was saying these things, many believed in him. Then Jesus said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you continue in my word you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
They replied to him, “We are descendants of Abraham and have not been enslaved to anyone at any time. How do you say, ‘You will become free’?”
Jesus replied to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, that everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin. And the slave does not remain in the household forever; the son remains forever. So if the son sets you free, you will be truly free. I know that you are descendants of Abraham. But you are seeking to kill me, because my word makes no progress among you. I speak the things that I have seen with the Father; so also you do the things that you have heard from the Father.”
They answered and said to him, “Abraham is our father!”
Jesus said to them, “If you are children of Abraham, do the deeds of Abraham! But now you are seeking to kill me, a man who spoke to you the truth which I heard from God. This Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father!”
They said to him, “We were not born from sexual immorality! We have one father, God!”
Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love me, for I have come forth from God and have come. For I have not come from myself, but that one sent me. Why do you not understand my way of speaking? Because you are not able to listen to my message. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father! That one was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand firm in the truth, because truth is not in him. Whenever he speaks the lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I am telling the truth, you do not believe me. Who among you convicts me concerning sin? If I am telling the truth, why do you not believe me? The one who is from God listens to the words of God. Because of this you do not listen — because you are not of God.”
The Jews answered and said to him, “Do we not correctly say that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
Jesus replied, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me! But I do not seek my own glory. There is one who seeks and judges! Truly, truly I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never experience death forever.”
The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham and the prophets died, and you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death forever.’ You are not greater than our father Abraham who died, are you? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself to be?”
Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. The one who glorifies me is my Father, about whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ And you have not known him, but I know him. And if I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you! But I know him and I keep his word. Abraham your father rejoiced that he would see my day, and he saw it and was glad.”
So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I am!”
Then they picked up stones in order to throw them at him. But Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple courts.
What had the Jewish Rabbi Jesus said so Jewish Religious Laywers wanted to kill Jesus by stoning (for blasphemy per Leviticus 24:10-16) ?
Leviticus 24:10-16 LEB =>
And an Israelite woman’s son, and he was an Egyptian man’s son, went out in the midst of the Israelites; and the Israelite woman’s son and an Israelite man fought in the camp. Then the Israelite woman’s son blasphemed the name, and he cursed, so they brought him to Moses — and the name of his mother was Shelomith the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan. Then they put him in custody so that the matter might be made clear to them in accordance with the mouth of יהוה Yahweh.
Then יהוה Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying, “Bring the curser outside the camp, and all the hearers shall place their hands on his head, and the whole community shall stone him. And you shall speak to the Israelites, saying, ‘Any man when he curses his אלהים God shall bear his sin. And he who blasphemes יהוה Yahweh’s name certainly shall be put to death; the whole community certainly shall stone him. As the alien, so the native shall be put to death at blaspheming his name.
Could Jewish Rabbi Jesus truly be יהוה Righteous King of the Universe (sharing יהוה Righteous name with יהוה as it is written in Jeremiah 23:5-6) ?
Jeremiah 23:5-6 LEB => “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’
Hebrew word for righteousness has pronoun, suffixed, 1st person, plural so could be translated: 'יהוה Yahweh righteousness We'
Jesus going away meant returning to Holy אלהים God's throne so pronouncement “I am going away, and you will seek me and will die in your sin. Where I am going you cannot come!” declares destiny away from Holy אלהים God's Heaven for those choosing NOT to believe Jesus is יהוה Righteous King of the Universe & thus die in their sin without wanting to repent & trusting אלהים God for Holy cleansing from unrighteousness (awful eternal torment whose worst aspect is being separated from Holy יהוה אלהים Righteous ❤️).
FYI: searching 313 English Bibles in my Logos Library for the phrase "I existed" found four verses:
1856 Jewish School and Family Bible Genesis 48:15 => And he blessed Joseph, and said, the God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God who has fed me since I existed unto this day,
1767 Harwood's Liberal NT Translation John 8:58 => Jesus replied — In the most solemn manner I assure you that I existed before Abraham drew the breath of life.
1969 The Cotton Patch Gospel John 8:58 => To this Jesus replied, “I existed before Abraham was born.”
1971 The Living Bible, Paraphrased Proverbs 8:23 => From ages past, I am. I existed before the earth began.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@the_MadJw posted:
I don't know or care, KS!
I'm a bit late with this, but I add my thanks for your addressing the question that @Pages was the first to ask in this thread. I don't understand why we had to ask you that question, by my count, twelve times before you finally addressed it (especially when your answer was going to be "I don't know or care") but I give you credit for finally doing so.
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Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Churchianity has him avoiding the question, then speak in Ebonics!
"Ego eim" was a very common term, even JUDAS used it!
Think him a member of your 'Godhead', KS?
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
themadjw.weebly.com
253-652-4443
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That's because I could care less about your and his opinion about the WT.
I foucus only on sciptures- from non-NWT.
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
themadjw.weebly.com
253-652-4443
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John 10:33- The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
The response he made Trinitarians IGNORE
34- Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are Gods’?
35- If He called them Gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken),
36- do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said,
‘I am the SON of God’?
37- If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
38- but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
themadjw.weebly.com
253-652-4443
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@Bill_Coley @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus @the_MadJw
It's quite interesting what Jesus taught is very different what trintarians teach today. The lie that Jesus is God. If we plug the lie into scripture the scripture will vomit the lie out.
For example, Jesus stated, "I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me." (John 5:30)
If we insert the demonic dogma that Jeus is God, are we to assume that God cannot do a single thing of his own initiative?
- God does not do his own will?
- God does the will of someone else who sent him?
- God does what he pleases, he does not need to be given authority or permission by someone else.
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John 12:49- For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has Himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak.
50- And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has bidden me.
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
themadjw.weebly.com
253-652-4443
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John 14:1-Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me.
Anything about a 'Triune God' in THERE?
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
themadjw.weebly.com
253-652-4443
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John 16:5- But now I am going to Him who sent me!
Now did 2 Other Fellow Gods send 'Him'?
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
themadjw.weebly.com
253-652-4443
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Now THIS among ALL Christ's words settles the "Mystery of the Trinity:~
John 17:3- And this is eternal life, that they know thee the ONLY true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
And try as they might, the Trinnies can't get around ONLY!
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?
themadjw.weebly.com
253-652-4443
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Do you ever look up what Greek Word that Jesus used for God? It's the same Greek Word the Apostle John used in John 1:1a, since he personally heard and wrote down the words of Jesus Christ... later on in John 17 (Θεόν,Theon)
Jesus even used the same Greek Word about the God he was going too. Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” (John 20:17)
Only Jehovah alone is called God of gods.
Joshua 22:22
“The God of gods, Jehovah! The God of gods, Jehovah! He knows, and Israel will also know. If we were rebellious and unfaithful to Jehovah, do not spare us this day.
Daniel 2:47
The king said to Daniel: “Truly your God is a God of gods and a Lord of kings and a Revealer of secrets, because you were able to reveal this secret.”
Deuteronomy 10:17
For Jehovah your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the God great, mighty, and awe-inspiring, who treats none with partiality and does not accept a bribe.
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@BroRando posted:
It's quite interesting what Jesus taught is very different what trintarians teach today. The lie that Jesus is God. If we plug the lie into scripture the scripture will vomit the lie out.
For example, Jesus stated, "I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me." (John 5:30)
If we insert the demonic dogma that Jeus is God, are we to assume that God cannot do a single thing of his own initiative?
God does not do his own will?
God does the will of someone else who sent him?
God does what he pleases, he does not need to be given authority or permission by someone else.
FYI, and as I've posted in countless ways over the years, I draw many of the same conclusions about the Trinity that you do... only using a different vocabulary.
For example, I don't call the assertion that Jesus is God a "lie." I call it a declaration of faith with which I disagree. And I don't consider Trinitarian theology to be a "demonic dogma." I consider it to be a good faith interpretation of the biblical witness that reaches a different conclusion than I do.
With due respect, @BroRando, your post would have been far more powerful had you chosen not to include in it those dismissive characterizations. In my view, you often present strong biblical and theological arguments in support of your views. I encourage you to pair those arguments with Christ-like reactions to views different from yours.
