The Deity of Jesus: "The Logos was God"

C Mc · December 2021

The Deity of Jesus is the center of all New Testament theology (or theologies). Why? Because "Jesus is God." It's in plain sight from Genesis to Revelation. Jesus is Co-equal, Co-creator, and Co-eternal with the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. There is no hiding, no shame. It's plain for all to see:

John 1:1
John 1:18
John 20:28
Rom. 9:5
Col. 2:2
Titus. 2:13
Heb. 1:8-9
2 Pet. 1:1 (See sources for others).

Out of these eight passages, three are found in John. Of these three, everyone acknowledges John 20:28 to be an unequivocal "deity-passage." Even a skeptic, Taylor, couldn't help but call the texts above "one clear ascription of Deity to Christ." What an acknowledgment this man gives in comparison to many professed Christian today.

Many tried to deny Jesus Christ was God incarnate. Their failure is equivalent to a man denying he was born. He may not know his birthday, but he can't deny his existence (see Hicks, Green; especially, Green's essay, "Jesus in the New Testament").

Read your Bible, the sources (below) to stimulate your thoughts, and add to the conversation in declaring the absolute Deity of Jesus: "The Logos was God." It's a treasure trove of biblical truth. CM

SOURCES:

John Hick, ed. The Myth of God Incarnate, (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1977).
Michael Green. ed, The Truth of God Incarnate, (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1977) 17ff.
Rudolf Bultmann "The Christological Confession of the World Council of Churches", Essays Philosophical and Theological, tr. James C. G. Greig (New York: Macmillan, 1955), 273ff.
Vincent Taylor "Does the New Testament Call Jesus "God"?", Expository Times, 73 (1961-62), 116ff.).
Raymond Brown "Does the New Testament Call Jesus "God"?", Theological Studies, 26 (1955), 545ff.).
Oscar Cullmann, The Christology of the New Testament, rev. ed., tr. Shirley C. Guthrie and Charles A. M. Hall (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1963), Ch. 11.
A. W. Wainwright, "The Confession "Jesus Is God" in the New Testament", Scottish Journal of Theology, 10 (1957), 274ff.
Ethelbert Stauffer, "Christ as Theos in Early Christianity", in Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, ed. Gerhard Kittel and Gerhard Friedrich, tr. and ed. Geoffrey W. Bromiley (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1964-76), III, 104ff., and
Johannes Schneider's contribution, "Christ as God",' in The New Interternation Dictionary of the New Testament, ed. Lothar Coenen, et. al., tr. and ed. Colin Brown (Exeter, England: Paternoster Press, 1975-78), 11, 80ff.

Brother Rando · December 2021

The Deity of Jesus: "The Logos was God"

C Mc Dec 17, 2021

The Deity of Jesus is the center of all New Testament theology (or theologies). Why? Because "Jesus is God." It's in plain sight from Genesis to Revelation. Jesus is Co-equal, Co-creator, and Co-eternal with the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. There is no hiding, no shame. It's plain for all to see:
John 1:1
John 1:18
John 20:28
Rom. 9:5
Col. 2:2
Titus. 2:13
Heb. 1:8-9
2 Pet. 1:1 (See sources for others).
Out of these eight passages, three are found in John. Of these three, everyone acknowledges John 20:28 to be an unequivocal "deity-passage." Even a skeptic, Taylor, couldn't help but call the texts above "one clear ascription of Deity to Christ." What an acknowledgment this man gives in comparison to many professed Christian today.
Many tried to deny Jesus Christ was God incarnate. Their failure is equivalent to a man denying he was born. He may not know his birthday, but he can't deny his existence (see Hicks, Green; especially, Green's essay, "Jesus in the New Testament").
Read your Bible, the sources (below) to stimulate your thoughts, and add to the conversation in declaring the absolute Deity of Jesus: "The Logos was God." It's a treasure trove of biblical truth. CM
SOURCES:
John Hick, ed. The Myth of God Incarnate, (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1977).
Michael Green. ed, The Truth of God Incarnate, (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1977) 17ff.
Rudolf Bultmann "The Christological Confession of the World Council of Churches", Essays Philosophical and Theological, tr. James C. G. Greig (New York: Macmillan, 1955), 273ff.
Vincent Taylor "Does the New Testament Call Jesus "God"?", Expository Times, 73 (1961-62), 116ff.).
Raymond Brown "Does the New Testament Call Jesus "God"?", Theological Studies, 26 (1955), 545ff.).
Oscar Cullmann, The Christology of the New Testament, rev. ed., tr. Shirley C. Guthrie and Charles A. M. Hall (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1963), Ch. 11.
A. W. Wainwright, "The Confession "Jesus Is God" in the New Testament", Scottish Journal of Theology, 10 (1957), 274ff.
Ethelbert Stauffer, "Christ as Theos in Early Christianity", in Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, ed. Gerhard Kittel and Gerhard Friedrich, tr. and ed. Geoffrey W. Bromiley (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1964-76), III, 104ff., and
Johannes Schneider's contribution, "Christ as God",' in The New Interternation Dictionary of the New Testament, ed. Lothar Coenen, et. al., tr. and ed. Colin Brown (Exeter, England: Paternoster Press, 1975-78), 11, 80ff.

Apostate and opposers of Jesus Christ never mention (John 17:3) for three reasons. Jesus calls His Father, the only true theon.

One, it shows that the Jesus has a theon above him who is the only true God. (The Father is Greater than I am) John 14:28
Two, it shows that Jesus was SENT by the the only true God. Trinitarians don't beleive Jesus was sent nor begotten. They cling to the pagan and demonic teaching of incarnation.
And three, no such thing as a trinity in these scriptures. Constantine a pagan roman emperor was a Sun Worshiper whom was the founder of Catholicism. Those caught up in this Cult are not Christians but are trinitarians, they burned Christians at the stauros and fed Christians to the lions.

Pagan Holy days such as Eastre' and Saturnalia is still worshipped to this very day by trinitarians.

Brother Rando · December 2021

JW's prove that the trinity is a fasle god.

For proof of the trinity some quote 1 John 5:7: “There are Three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.” (Dy) However, these words are no part of God’s inspired Word, not being found in any Greek manuscript earlier than the fifteenth century, nor in Jerome’s Latin Vulgate, nor in any Latin version written before the ninth century.

The Scriptures, Reason and the Trinity — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1953004

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Pages · December 2021

@BroRando

Trinitarians don't beleive Jesus was sent nor begotten. They cling to the pagan and demonic teaching of incarnation.

Really? How exactly did the angel Michael experience birth, becoming in flesh Jesus? Is that not definitional of incarnation?

Brother Rando · December 2021

Pages Dec 21, 2021

@BroRando
Trinitarians don't beleive Jesus was sent nor begotten. They cling to the pagan and demonic teaching of incarnation.
Really? How exactly did the angel Michael experience birth, becoming in flesh Jesus? Is that not definitional of incarnation?

Since Michael was created in the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation, his name reflects that meaning. Michael when translated means 'Who is Godlike?' or 'Who Is Like God?' The scripture points this meaning out quite nicely, "You made him a little lower than godlike ones, And you crowned him with glory and splendor." (Psalm 8:5) Immanuel when translated means "With us is God?'

The Scriptures also point out that Michael was sent and given the name to the glory of God the Father. "Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human." (Philippians 2:5-7) Yes, this very angel would be given the name to the glory of God the Father and have his Father's Name in him. “I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one."(John 17:11)

"More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:8-11) The Name (Jesus) when translated means “Jehovah Is Salvation.”

Pages · December 2021

@BroRando

Since Michael was created in the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation, his name reflects that meaning. Michael when translated means 'Who is Godlike?' or 'Who Is Like God?' The scripture points this meaning out quite nicely, "You made him a little lower than godlike ones, And you crowned him with glory and splendor." (Psalm 8:5) Immanuel when translated means "With us is God?'

The Scriptures also point out that Michael was sent and given the name to the glory of God the Father. "Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human." (Philippians 2:5-7) Yes, this very angel would be given the name to the glory of God the Father and have his Father's Name in him. “I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one."(John 17:11)

"More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:8-11) The Name (Jesus) when translated means “Jehovah Is Salvation.”

None of the above answers the question raised.

Pages · December 2021

@BroRando

Brother Rando Dec 21, 2021

https://christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/21284#Comment_21284
Since Michael was created in the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation, his name reflects that meaning. Michael when translated means 'Who is Godlike?' or 'Who Is Like God?' The scripture points this meaning out quite nicely, "You made him a little lower than godlike ones, And you crowned him with glory and splendor." (Psalm 8:5) Immanuel when translated means "With us is God?'
The Scriptures also point out that Michael was sent and given the name to the glory of God the Father. "Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human." (Philippians 2:5-7) Yes, this very angel would be given the name to the glory of God the Father and have his Father's Name in him. “I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one."(John 17:11)
"More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:8-11) The Name (Jesus) when translated means “Jehovah Is Salvation.”

Let's try again. Is Michael, an angel, in-flesh Jesus?

Brother Rando · December 2021

"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human." (Philippians 2:5-7) Yes, this very angel would be given the name to the glory of God the Father and have his Father's Name in him. “I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one."(John 17:11)

"I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, because my name is in him." (Exodus 23:20-21)

"More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:8-11) The Name (Jesus) when translated means “Jehovah Is Salvation.”

1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.1975
"and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin

Pages · December 2021

@BroRando

So far, an answer to the question raised has not been forthcoming. What has been asked is specific to the angel Michael and his enfleshment as Jesus.

Once again, I ask, did the angel Michael experience physical birth as the person Jesus?

Brother Rando · December 2021

"And the Word was a god," article in Manford's Magazine 1887

With Christians there is but one God; and hence, if Jesus is called God, it is concluded at once, and with apparent reason, that he must be Jehovah himself, as there is no other. But in the time of Christ, there were "gods many and lords many." It was believed that men who were great in this world, became gods in the world to come; and this exaltation was sometimes anticipated by their being deified while on earth.

"And the Word was a god," article in Manford's Magazine 1887

http://newworldtranslation.blogspot.com/2017/10/and-word-was-god-article-in-manfords.html

JESUS CHRIST A GOD, article in Manford's Magazine 1887 See also 200 Books on DVDROM on the Trinity Doctrine Debate For a list of all ...

Pages · December 2021

@BroRando

The Watch Tower's view, in my understanding of it, is that Michael is a spirit being of the non-physical realm – an angel, the first creation of God.

Jesus, on the other hand, is a physical being of the physical realm – a human, born of Mary (cf. Matt 1:18ff).

In Jn. 1:14 the Word becomes flesh, and it is this becoming flesh that corresponds to the birth narrative found in Matt. 1:18-25 and Lk. 1:26-35, 2:1-7.

So it seems to me, according to what I believe I understand to be the WT view, is that Wisdom also occupies the first creation of God. So, are Wisdom and Micheal one in the same being? – as there can be only one first creation – then, however that plays out, the above are given the title Word in Jn 1:1. Then we come to Jn. 1:14 where the Word becomes flesh.

Hopefully, this assessment is correct in it's concise form.

Assuming the belief that Jesus was real human flesh (corporeal) and Michael a non-corporeal being who then is in flesh Jesus – what term do you use to describe this enfleshment?

...the pagan and demonic teaching of incarnation.

Quoting you, the above condemnation of the incarnation would leave little option for the WT's view of Michael's enfleshment, in my opinion, other than possession.

Just to help with what incarnation is defined as: INCARNATION. “Incarnation” means literally “en-fleshment” or, slightly more fully, “embodiment in flesh.” (Dunn, J. D. G. (1992). Incarnation. In D. N. Freedman (Ed.), The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary (Vol. 3, p. 397). Doubleday.)

C Mc · December 2021

JW books in pdf format to better understand what they teach. Let me read it for myself. @BroRando is too cagey and repetitive to get the context needed. Can anyone help? CM

PS. The book entitled, "Let God Be True," where can I find this in pdf?

Bill_Coley · December 2021

@C Mc posted:

PS. The book entitled, "Let God Be True," where can I find this in pdf?

I found the book (actually, Google told me I'd find the book) in PDF format HERE.

C Mc · January 2022

Bill_Coley Dec 31, 2021

@C Mc posted:
PS. The book entitled, "Let God Be True," where can I find this in pdf?
I found the book (actually, Google told me I'd find the book) in PDF format HERE.

Thanks, Bill. CM

C Mc · January 2022

The Deity of Jesus: "The Logos was God"

C Mc Dec 17, 2021

The Deity of Jesus is the center of all New Testament theology (or theologies). Why? Because "Jesus is God." It's in plain sight from Genesis to Revelation. Jesus is Co-equal, Co-creator, and Co-eternal with the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. There is no hiding, no shame. It's plain for all to see:
John 1:1
John 1:18
John 20:28
Rom. 9:5
Col. 2:2
Titus. 2:13
Heb. 1:8-9
2 Pet. 1:1 (See sources for others).
Out of these eight passages, three are found in John. Of these three, everyone acknowledges John 20:28 to be an unequivocal "deity-passage." Even a skeptic, Taylor, couldn't help but call the texts above "one clear ascription of Deity to Christ." What an acknowledgment this man gives in comparison to many professed Christian today.
Many tried to deny Jesus Christ was God incarnate. Their failure is equivalent to a man denying he was born. He may not know his birthday, but he can't deny his existence (see Hicks, Green; especially, Green's essay, "Jesus in the New Testament").
Read your Bible, the sources (below) to stimulate your thoughts, and add to the conversation in declaring the absolute Deity of Jesus: "The Logos was God." It's a treasure trove of biblical truth. CM
SOURCES:
John Hick, ed. The Myth of God Incarnate, (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1977).
Michael Green. ed, The Truth of God Incarnate, (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1977) 17ff.
Rudolf Bultmann "The Christological Confession of the World Council of Churches", Essays Philosophical and Theological, tr. James C. G. Greig (New York: Macmillan, 1955), 273ff.
Vincent Taylor "Does the New Testament Call Jesus "God"?", Expository Times, 73 (1961-62), 116ff.).
Raymond Brown "Does the New Testament Call Jesus "God"?", Theological Studies, 26 (1955), 545ff.).
Oscar Cullmann, The Christology of the New Testament, rev. ed., tr. Shirley C. Guthrie and Charles A. M. Hall (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1963), Ch. 11.
A. W. Wainwright, "The Confession "Jesus Is God" in the New Testament", Scottish Journal of Theology, 10 (1957), 274ff.
Ethelbert Stauffer, "Christ as Theos in Early Christianity", in Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, ed. Gerhard Kittel and Gerhard Friedrich, tr. and ed. Geoffrey W. Bromiley (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1964-76), III, 104ff., and
Johannes Schneider's contribution, "Christ as God",' in The New Interternation Dictionary of the New Testament, ed. Lothar Coenen, et. al., tr. and ed. Colin Brown (Exeter, England: Paternoster Press, 1975-78), 11, 80ff.

To My fellow Bible Believing Posters:

God has spoken. The surrogates of God's enemy will growl as rabid dogs over this truth. Nevertheless, enjoy the truth from eternity on John 1:1. CM

Ἐν (Root: εν, LN: 67.33; preposition)

in

Contained in: Prepositional Phrase

Syntactic Force: Temporal preposition

Words Modified by Ἐν

• preposition-to-noun relation: The word Ἐν modifies ἀρχῇ (noun) in Jn 1:1, word 2 (ἀρχῇ is within the current clausal unit, after Ἐν).

ἀρχῇ (Root: αρχω, LN: 67.65; noun, dative, singular, feminine)

beginning

Contained in: Prepositional Phrase

Syntactic Force: Prepositional object

Words That Modify ἀρχῇ

• preposition-to-noun relation: The word ἀρχῇ is modified by Ἐν (preposition) in Jn 1:1, word 1 (Ἐν is within the current clausal unit, before ἀρχῇ).

ἦν (Root: ειμι, LN: 13.69; verb, imperfect, active, indicative, third person, singular)

to be

Contained in: Segment Clause

Syntactic Force: Finite verb

Words That Modify ἦν

• conjunctive relation: The word ἦν is modified by καὶ (conjunction) in Jn 1:1, word 6 (καὶ is outside of the current clausal unit).

ὁ (Root: ο, LN: 92.24; article, nominative, singular, masculine)

the

Contained in: Segment Clause

Syntactic Force: Attributive article

Words Modified by ὁ

• articular relation: The word ὁ modifies λόγος (noun) in Jn 1:1, word 5 (λόγος is within the current clausal unit, after ὁ).

λόγος (Root: λεγω, LN: 33.100; noun, nominative, singular, masculine)

word

Contained in: Segment Clause

Syntactic Force: Subject

Words That Modify λόγος

• articular relation: The word λόγος is modified by ὁ (article) in Jn 1:1, word 4 (ὁ is within the current clausal unit, before λόγος).

καὶ (Root: και, LN: 89.92; conjunction, logical, connective)

and

Contained in: Sentence

Syntactic Force: Copulative conjunction

Words Modified by καὶ

• conjunctive relation: The word καὶ modifies ἦν (verb) in Jn 1:1, word 3 (ἦν is outside of the current clausal unit).

• conjunctive relation: The word καὶ modifies ἦν (verb) in Jn 1:1, word 9 (ἦν is outside of the current clausal unit).

ὁ (Root: ο, LN: 92.24; article, nominative, singular, masculine)

the

Contained in: Segment Clause

Syntactic Force: Attributive article

Words Modified by ὁ

• articular relation: The word ὁ modifies λόγος (noun) in Jn 1:1, word 8 (λόγος is within the current clausal unit, after ὁ).

λόγος (Root: λεγω, LN: 33.100; noun, nominative, singular, masculine)

word

Contained in: Segment Clause

Syntactic Force: Subject

Words That Modify λόγος

• articular relation: The word λόγος is modified by ὁ (article) in Jn 1:1, word 7 (ὁ is within the current clausal unit, before λόγος).

ἦν (Root: ειμι, LN: 58.67; verb, imperfect, active, indicative, third person, singular)

to be

Contained in: Segment Clause

Syntactic Force: Finite verb

Words That Modify ἦν

• conjunctive relation: The word ἦν is modified by καὶ (conjunction) in Jn 1:1, word 6 (καὶ is outside of the current clausal unit).

• prepositional relation: The word ἦν is modified by πρὸς (preposition) in Jn 1:1, word 10 (πρὸς is outside of the current clausal unit).

• conjunctive relation: The word ἦν is modified by καὶ (conjunction) in Jn 1:1, word 13 (καὶ is outside of the current clausal unit).

πρὸς (Root: προς, LN: 89.112; preposition)

with

Contained in: Prepositional Phrase

Syntactic Force: Preposition of association

Words Modified by πρὸς

• prepositional relation: The word πρὸς modifies ἦν (verb) in Jn 1:1, word 9 (ἦν is outside of the current clausal unit).

τὸν (Root: ο, LN: 92.24; article, accusative, singular, masculine)

the

Contained in: Prepositional Phrase

Syntactic Force: Attributive article

Words Modified by τὸν

• articular relation: The word τὸν modifies θεόν (noun) in Jn 1:1, word 12 (θεόν is within the current clausal unit, after τὸν).

θεόν (Root: θεος, LN: 12.1; noun, accusative, singular, masculine)

God

Contained in: Prepositional Phrase

Syntactic Force: Prepositional object

Words That Modify θεόν

• articular relation: The word θεόν is modified by τὸν (article) in Jn 1:1, word 11 (τὸν is within the current clausal unit, before θεόν).

καὶ (Root: και, LN: 89.92; conjunction, logical, connective)

and

Contained in: Sentence

Syntactic Force: Copulative conjunction

Words Modified by καὶ

• conjunctive relation: The word καὶ modifies ἦν (verb) in Jn 1:1, word 9 (ἦν is outside of the current clausal unit).

• conjunctive relation: The word καὶ modifies ἦν (verb) in Jn 1:1, word 15 (ἦν is outside of the current clausal unit).

θεὸς (Root: θεος, LN: 12.1; noun, nominative, singular, masculine)

God

Contained in: Segment Clause

Syntactic Force: Predicate nominative

ἦν (Root: ειμι, LN: 58.67; verb, imperfect, active, indicative, third person, singular)

to be

Contained in: Segment Clause

Syntactic Force: Finite verb

Words That Modify ἦν

• conjunctive relation: The word ἦν is modified by καὶ (conjunction) in Jn 1:1, word 13 (καὶ is outside of the current clausal unit).

ὁ (Root: ο, LN: 92.24; article, nominative, singular, masculine)

the

Contained in: Segment Clause

Syntactic Force: Attributive article

Words Modified by ὁ

• articular relation: The word ὁ modifies λόγος (noun) in Jn 1:1, word 17 (λόγος is within the current clausal unit, after ὁ).

λόγος (Root: λεγω, LN: 33.100; noun, nominative, singular, masculine)

word

Contained in: Segment Clause

Syntactic Force: Subject

Words That Modify λόγος

• articular relation: The word λόγος is modified by ὁ (article) in Jn 1:1, word 16 (ὁ is within the current clausal unit, before λόγος).

SOURCE:

Lukaszewski, A. L., & Dubis, M. (2009). The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament: Expansions and Annotations (Jn 1:1). Logos Bible Software.

Brother Rando · January 2022

How does John 1:1 read with a literal translation?

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος reads

En archí ín o lógos, kaí o lógos ín prós tón theón, kaí theós ín o lógos

Word for Word translation of Koine Greek:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.”

Jesus is never referred to as the theon because Jesus was begotten and came into existence. Therefore, the Apostle John used the nominative title theos which means a god referring to the Word's divinity and godlike qualities.

1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin

Other languages use the indefinite article but Koine Greek in the first century did not. That is the very reason why two different forms of Greek words were used by the Apostle John, ton theon and theos.

John also did the same with "No man has ever seen theon at any time" (John 1:18) Again, Jesus is never mentioned as the theon. The Apostle John also personally heard the words of Jesus Christ when Jesus told his Father in Prayer, "This means everlasting life, their coming to know “You, the only true theon" in (John 17:3)

Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus · January 2022

@BroRando January 11 How does John 1:1 read with a literal translation?

@BroRando January 11 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος reads

@BroRando January 11 En archí ín o lógos, kaí o lógos ín prós tón theón, kaí theós ín o lógos

Puzzling transliteration that treats Greek letter eta ἦ as 'i' instead of ē (long e as Greek letter epsilon ε is short e). Also noticed rough breathing (h) at word beginning missing from transliteration. Curious is change of circumflex & grave accents into acute accent, which sounds different.

John 1:1 (SBLGNT) Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.

Transliteration into English => En archē ēn ho logos, kai ho logos ēn pros ton theon, kai theos ēn ho logos.

Translation into English => In beginning was being the word, and the word was being with the God, and God was being the word.

Note: in my first year Koine Greek class in college, my professor ignored accents since up/down sound modification is not critical for reading.

@BroRando January 11 Other languages use the indefinite article but Koine Greek in the first century did not. That is the very reason why two different forms of Greek words were used by the Apostle John, ton theon and theos.

We agree Koine Greek does not have an indefinite article. We disagree about reason for two different spellings of Greek word θεὸς by the Apostle John. Like other languages, Koine Greek changes spelling to show grammatical usage and gender. Contextual meaning for a preposition depends on the grammatical spelling of the prepositional object.

Πρός

A. Basic Uses (with Accusative almost exclusively)

This preposition occurs only once with the genitive and only six times with the dative case, but almost 700 times with the accusative. Our treatment will be restricted thus to the accusative case (for the other cases used, see BAGD’s treatment).

1. Purpose: for, for the purpose of

2. Spatial: toward

3. Temporal: toward, for (duration)

4. Result: so that, with the result that

5. Opposition: against

6. Association: with, in company with (with stative verbs)

Daniel B. Wallace, Greek Grammar beyond the Basics: An Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1996), 380.

Greek words τὸν θεόν (ton theon) are grammatically accusative, singular, masculine. Greek word θεὸς (theos) is grammatically nominative, singular, masculine.

Acts 19:27 has θεᾶς (theas) that is grammatically genitive, singular, feminine (goddess). Acts 19:37 has a Koine Greek textual variant: τὴν θεὸν (tēn theon) has grammatical accusative, singular, feminine article (the) followed by accusative, singular, masculine noun for translation of goddess. Textus Receptus has τὴν θεὰν (tēn thean) where article & noun are grammatically accusative, singular, feminine.

@BroRando January 11 Jesus is never referred to as the theon because Jesus was begotten and came into existence.

Why did the Jewish Rabbi Jesus command Jewish disciples of Jesus to be believing in Jesus the same as believing in The God (Ton Theon) ?

John 14:1 (SBLGNT) πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν θεόν, καὶ εἰς ἐμὲ πιστεύετε

Transliteration into English => pisteuete eis Ton Theov, kai eis eme pisteuete

Translation into English => Be Ye Believing in The God, also in Me Be Ye Believing (my literal translation showing continuous believing action command in present time)

Keep Smiling 😊

Whake Atuari · August 2022

@BroRando

You have some fine sounding arguments, but you still fail to understand the truth of why Jesus Christ came to die for mankind and not an angel.

Here is some logic for you; there are hundreds of millions of angels in the kingdom of God, why did it HAVE to be the Arch-Angel Michael (who is actually a war Cherub, which is completely different to an angel), why couldn't it be the Arch-Angel Gavri-el or Rapha-el or the angel who wrestled with Jacob in Peni-el or the angel who gave knowledge about the birth of Samson.

Why did it have to be the Arch-Angel Micha-El who had to become a person to die for mankind?

You base your argument on "one" translation of a name, which holds no authority about the plans and purposes of God.

An arch-angel cannot empower a person to do the works of God, because an arch-angel is a servant of God themselves. Only God Himself can empower a person to do His will and His works. God will not give His glory to another. Servants cannot give power belonging to someone higher than themselves to someone else who is lower than themselves.

Meaning: an angel cannot empower a mortal man with the power of God, because the power does not belong to the angel.

If the power does not belong to the angel, the angel does not get to make the decision who should be empowered.

Man is empowered by God and God alone, because first of all the power belongs to God and therefore the authorisation is given by the true owner, and if the authorisation and empowerment is given by the true owner, the true owner has also taken all necessary measures to make sure the recipient has been cultivated and trained so they are properly prepared to handle the power they have been given.

When you understand why Jesus Christ had to come and die for mankind and not an angel, then you will move out of the realm of angelology and into knowledge of God.

Brother Rando · August 2022

@Whake Atuari Why did it have to be the Arch-Angel Micha-El who had to become a person to die for mankind?

You base your argument on "one" translation of a name, which holds no authority about the plans and purposes of God.

The Bible often calls Jesus “the Son of God.” (John 1:49) The expression “Son of God” acknowledges that God is the Creator, or Source, of all life, including that of Jesus. (Psalm 36:9; Revelation 4:11) The Bible does not teach that God literally fathered a child in the same way that humans produce children.

The Bible also calls the angels “sons of the true God.” (Job 1:6) And the Bible says that the first human, Adam, was a “son of God.” (Luke 3:38) However, because Jesus was God’s first creation and the only one created directly by him, the Bible describes Jesus as the foremost Son of God.

After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory. (Rev 18:1)

@Whake Atuari Man is empowered by God and God alone, because first of all the power belongs to God and therefore the authorisation is given by the true owner, and if the authorisation and empowerment is given by the true owner, the true owner has also taken all necessary measures to make sure the recipient has been cultivated and trained so they are properly prepared to handle the power they have been given.

Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." (Matthew 28:18)
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” (Matthew 28:18)

The first man, Adam, was created perfect, or without sin. He had the prospect of living forever but lost it by choosing to disobey God. (Genesis 3:17-19) When he had children, he passed on to them the defect of sin. (Romans 5:12) For this reason, the Bible indicates that Adam “sold” himself and his children into slavery to sin and death. (Romans 7:14) Being imperfect, none of them could buy back what Adam lost.—Psalm 49:7, 8.

God felt compassion for Adam’s descendants in their hopeless situation. (John 3:16) However, God’s standard of justice required that he not simply overlook or excuse their sins without a valid basis. (Psalm 89:14; Romans 3:23-26) God loves mankind, so he provided the necessary legal means for their sins to be not only forgiven but also eliminated. (Romans 5:6-8) The ransom is that legal basis.

Jesus’ sacrifice corresponds exactly to what Adam lost—one perfect human life. (1 Corinthians 15:21, 22, 45, 46) The Bible says: “Just as through the disobedience of the one man [Adam] many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one person [Jesus Christ] many will be made righteous.” (Romans 5:19) This explains how the death of one man can pay the ransom for many sinners. In fact, Jesus’ sacrifice is “a corresponding ransom for all” those who take the steps necessary to benefit from it.—1 Timothy 2:5, 6.

Nevertheless, the Father dispatched his Son to the earth to be born as a human baby. Doing so meant that for some decades, Jehovah had to forgo intimate association with his beloved Son in heaven. With intense interest, he watched from heaven as Jesus grew up to be a perfect man. At about 30 years of age, Jesus got baptized. We do not have to guess how Jehovah felt about him. The Father spoke personally from heaven: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” (Matthew 3:17) Seeing that Jesus faithfully did all that had been prophesied, all that was asked of him, his Father must have been so pleased!—John 5:36; 17:4.

Brother Rando · October 2022

@Whake Atuari

Young's Literal Translation (1 Thess 4:15, 16) for this to you we say in the word of the Lord, that we who are living -- who do remain over to the presence of the Lord -- may not precede those asleep, because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the Voice of a Chief-Messenger , and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,

Chief-messenger = Archangel ἀρχάγγελος archángelos, ar-khang'-el-os; from G757 and G32; a chief angel:—archangel.
The Chief Angel is the Archangel the Archangel is Michael.
The Name God's Son had before being given the Name "Jesus".
"You MUST worship God with spirit and TRUTH!" John 4:24

C Mc · January 2023

From the book: Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theo in Reference to Jesus. by Murray J. Harris

I will allow the author speak directly to CD Posters. The page references are in parentheses (p ):

Harris devotes a full chapter (chapters 2-11) to each of ten major passages:

Jn 1:1, 18
Jn 20:28
Acts 20:28
Rom 9:5
Tit 2:13
Ps 45:7-8 as quoted in Heb 1:8-9
2 Pet 1:1
1 Jn 5:20

For each of these he discusses the grammatical, theological, historical, literary, and other issues that affect the interpretation of “Theo”, weighs the pros and cons, and proposes a carefully nuanced conclusion.

Harris concludes that the use of “Theo” as a title for Jesus Christ is:

"Certain" in Jn 1:1 and Jn 20:28
"Very probable" in Rom 9:5, Tit 2:13, Heb 1:8, and 2 Pet 1:1
"Probable” in Jn 1:18
"Possible, but not likely” in Acts 20:28, Heb 1:9, and 1 Jn 5:20 (p 271).

Chapter 12 considers more briefly seven other texts

Matt 1:23
Jn 17:3
Gal 2:20
Eph 5:5
Col. 2:2
2 Thess. 1:12
1 Tim. 3:16 -- have occasionally been "adduced as evidence” for the use of (ὁ) θεός as a Christological title (255-56).

Harris argues that "in none of these latter verses is a Christological use of ‘Theos’ at all likely" (271). Harris believes, in these verses, Theos is applied to God the Father, who manifests Himself through Christ.

Chapter 13, "Conclusions: Theos as a Christological Title”, two main contributions that (ὁ) θεός Christology” makes to general NT Christology:

The first is that "Theos is a Christological title that is primarily ontological in nature" (p 288). The application of Theos to Jesus Christ asserts that Jesus is not merely "God- in-action or God-in-revelation rather that he is God-by-nature" (p 291).
Second, "while other Christological titles such as Kupios and vios, Theos imply the divinity of Jesus, the appellation Theos makes that implication explicit" (p 293).

Thus, Harris finds "in the Christological use of Theos. . . both the basis and the zenith of NT Christology: the basis, since Theos a Christological title that is primarily ontological in character ...the zenith, because Theos is a Christological title that explicitly and unequivocally asserts the deity of Christ" (p 299).

Jesus is God! CM

SOURCE:

Harris, Murray J. Jesus as God: New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus. Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1992. 379 pp.
He is a Professor of NT Exegesis and Theology at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and earned his Ph.D. under F. F. Bruce at the University of Manchester.

Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus · January 2023

@C Mc January 30 From the book: Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theo in Reference to Jesus. by Murray J. Harris

Republished by Wipf & Stock in 2008 => Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus

Contents

Preface

Acknowledgments

Abbreviations

I Introduction: Theos in the New Testament

II The Word Was God (John 1:1)

III The Only Son, Who Is God (John 1:18)

IV My Lord and My God! (John 20:28)

V The Church of God (Acts 20:28)

VI God Blessed Forever (Romans 9:5)

VII Our Great God and Savior (Titus 2:13)

VIII The Throne of God (Psalm 45:7–8)

IX The Throne of God (Hebrews 1:8–9)

X Our God and Savior (2 Peter 1:1)

XI The True God (1 John 5:20)

XII Other Texts

XIII Conclusions: Theos as a Christological Title

Appendixes

I The Definite Article in the Greek New Testament: Some General and Specific Principles

II An Outline of the New Testament Testimony to the Deity of Christ

Bibliography

Author Index

Subject Index

Index of Principal Greek Terms and Phrases

Reference Index

Old Testament

Old Testament Apocrypha

Old Testament Pseudepigrapha

New Testament

Other Ancient Authors and Writings

Murray J. Harris, Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus (Eugene, OR: Wipf & Stock, 2008), 7–8.

Notable missing from listed texts is believing command in John 14:1 yet was included in Appendix II A.2.b.(3) Object of saving faith.

πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν θεόν, καὶ εἰς ἐμὲ πιστεύετε (John 14:1 Greek spoken by יֵשׁוּעַ Yeshua to his Jewish disciples)

Be Ye Believing in The God, also in Me Be Ye Believing (archaic Ye shows plural You in suffix spelling of πιστεύετε)

Preface provides insight about text selection:

It is a curious fact that each of the texts to be examined contains an interpretative problem of some description; actually, most contain two or three. It may be helpful at this point to anticipate what is to come by classifying these various problems:

1. Textual: John 1:18; Acts 20:28; Gal. 2:20; Col. 2:2; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pet. 1:1; 1 John 5:20

2. Punctuation: John 1:1; Rom. 9:5

3. Grammatical:

a. Problems relating to the presence or absence or the repetition of the article: John 1:1, 18; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; 2 Thess. 1:12; Titus 2:13; 2 Pet. 1:1

b. General syntactical problems:

(1) Whether καί is epexegetic or two nouns are in epexegetic apposition: John 17:3; Gal. 2:20; Eph. 5:5; Col. 2:2; 2 Thess. 1:12; Titus 2:13; 2 Pet. 1:1

(2) Whether a case is nominative or vocative: John 20:28; Heb. 1:8–9

(3) Whether a word is substantival or adjectival: John 1:1, 18; Acts 20:28

4. Contextual:

a. Immediate: 1 John 5:20

b. Old Testament: Matt. 1:23; Heb. 1:8–9

The sixteen passages that will be considered are treated in canonical order within two groups—nine major texts and seven “other texts.”

Murray J. Harris, Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus (Eugene, OR: Wipf & Stock, 2008), 11–12.

Pages 315 to 317 have Appendix II

Appendix II

An Outline of the New Testament Testimony to the Deity of Christ

This outline does not purport to be in any sense an exhaustive analysis of the NT witness to Christ’s deity. Rather it is a sketch of one approach—a rather traditional approach—to this theme. Other complementary or supplementary approaches abound, such as the creative treatment of Jesus’ implicit claim to deity in his parables by P. B. Payne or R. T. France’s documentation from the Synoptic Gospels of Jesus’ assumption of the role of Yahweh (Jesus 150–59). For a brief discussion of the NT verses that seem, at first sight, to call Jesus’ divinity into question, see R. E. Brown, Reflections 6–10 (= “Jesus” 548–51).

A. Implicit Christology

1. Divine functions performed by Jesus

a. In relation to the universe

(1) Creator (John 1:3; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2)

(2) Sustainer (1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3)

(3) Author of life (John 1:4; Acts 3:15)

(4) Ruler (Matt. 28:18; Rom. 14:9; Rev. 1:5)

b. In relation to human beings

(1) Healing the sick (Mark 1:32–34; Acts 3:6; 10:38)

(2) Teaching authoritatively (Mark 1:21–22; 13:31)

(3) Forgiving sins (Mark 2:1–12; Luke 24:47; Acts 5:31; Col. 3:13)

(4) Granting salvation or imparting eternal life (Acts 4:12; Rom. 10:12–14)

(5) Dispensing the Spirit (Matt. 3:11; Acts 2:17, 33)

(6) Raising the dead (Luke 7:11–17; John 5:21; 6:40)

(7) Exercising judgment (Matt. 25:31–46; John 5:19–29; Acts 10:42; 1 Cor. 4:4–5)

2. Divine status claimed by or accorded to Jesus

a. In relation to his Father

(1) Possessor of divine attributes (John 1:4; 10:30; 21:17; Eph. 4:10; Col. 1:19; 2:9)

(2) Eternally existent (John 1:1; 8:58; 12:41; 17:5; 1 Cor. 10:4; Phil. 2:6; Heb. 11:26; 13:8; Jude 5)

(3) Equal in dignity (Matt. 28:19; John 5:23; 2 Cor. 13:14; Rev. 22:13; cf. 21:6)

(4) Perfect revealer (John 1:18; 14:9; Col. 1:15; Heb. 1:1–3)

(5) Embodiment of truth (John 1:9, 14; 6:32; 14:6; Rev. 3:7, 14)

(6) Joint possessor of the kingdom (Eph. 5:5; Rev. 11:15), churches (Rom. 16:16), Spirit (Rom. 8:9; Phil. 1:19), temple (Rev. 21:22), divine name (Matt 28:19; cf. Rev. 14:1), and throne (Rev. 22:1, 3)

b. In relation to human beings

(1) Recipient of praise (Matt. 21:15–16; Eph. 5:19; 1 Tim. 1:12; Rev. 5:8–14)

(2) Recipient of prayer (Acts 1:24; 7:59–60; 9:10–17, 21; 22:16, 19; 1 Cor. 1:2; 16:22; 2 Cor. 12:8)

(3) Object of saving faith (John 14:1; Acts 10:43; 16:31; Rom. 10:8–13)

(4) Object of worship (Matt. 14:33; 28:9, 17; John 5:23; 20:28; Phil. 2:10–11; Heb. 1:6; Rev. 5:8–12)

(5) Joint source of blessing (1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; 1 Thess. 3:11; 2 Thess. 2:16)

(6) Object of doxologies (2 Tim. 4:18; 2 Pet. 3:18; Rev. 1:5b–6; 5:13)

B. Explicit Christology

1. Old Testament passages referring to Yahweh applied to Jesus

a. Character of Yahweh (Exod. 3:14 and Isa. 43:11 alluded to in John 8:58; Ps. 101:27–28 LXX [MT 102:28–29] quoted in Heb. 1:11–12; Isa. 44:6 alluded to in Rev. 1:17)

b. Holiness of Yahweh (Isa. 8:12–13 [cf. 29:23] quoted in 1 Pet. 3:14–15)

c. Descriptions of Yahweh (Ezek. 43:2 and Dan. 10:5–6 alluded to in Rev. 1:13–16)

d. Worship of Yahweh (Isa. 45:23 alluded to in Phil. 2:10–11; Deut. 32:43 LXX and Ps. 96:7 LXX [MT 97:7] quoted in Heb. 1:6)

e. Work of Yahweh in creation (Ps. 101:26 LXX [MT 102:27] quoted in Heb. 1:10)

f. Salvation of Yahweh (Joel 2:32 [MT 3:5] quoted in Rom. 10:13; cf. Acts 2:21; Isa. 40:3 quoted in Matt. 3:3)

g. Trustworthiness of Yawheh (Isa. 28:16 quoted in Rom. 9:33; 10:11; 1 Pet. 2:6)

h. Judgment of Yahweh (Isa. 6:10 alluded to in John 12:41; Isa. 8:14 quoted in Rom. 9:33 and 1 Pet. 2:8)

i. Triumph of Yahweh (Ps. 68:18 [MT v. 19] quoted in Eph. 4:8)

2. Divine titles claimed by or applied to Jesus

a. Son of Man (Matt. 16:28; 24:30; Mark 8:38; 14:62–64; Acts 7:56)

b. Son of God (Matt. 11:27; Mark 15:39; John 1:18; Rom. 1:4; Gal. 4:4; Heb. 1:2)

c. Messiah (Matt. 16:16; Mark 14:61; John 20:31)

d. Lord (Mark 12:35–37; John 20:28; Rom. 10:9; 1 Cor. 8:5–6; 12:3; 16:22; Phil. 2:11; 1 Pet. 2:3; 3:15)

e. Alpha and Omega (Rev. 22:13; cf. 1:8; 21:6, of the Lord God)

f. God (John 1:1, 18; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pet. 1:1)

Murray J. Harris, Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus (Eugene, OR: Wipf & Stock, 2008), 315–317.

Notably missing from Appendix II Yahweh list is the name in Jeremiah 23:5-6 LEB => “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’

Hebrew noun צדקנו tzid-KAY-nu for righteousness has pronoun, suffixed, 1st person, plural (construct => of) whose literal translation is: 'Yahweh Righteousness of We'.

Keep Smiling 😊

Brother Rando · January 2023

@C Mc

Harris concludes that the use of “Theo” as a title for Jesus Christ is:

"" and

"" in Rom 9:5, Tit 2:13, Heb 1:8, and 2 Pet 1:1

"” in Jn 1:18

", but not likely” in Acts 20:28, Heb 1:9, and 1 Jn 5:20 (p ).

Not really... if you had dug a little deeper you would of found that the title "theo" is attributed to Jesus for being a god, godlike, who is like God. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Theo&ia=web theo-: prefix meaning "a god"

Why not look up theomorphism to get a better handle where the meaning comes from instead of trying to invent an idea that is neither biblical or true?

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/theomorphism

the·o·mor·phism (thē′ō-môr′fĭz′əm) n. Depiction or conception of humans as having the form of a god.
the state or condition of being formed in the image or likeness of God.

Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus · February 2023

Better way to dig deeper is reading Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus whose conclusion in chapter 13 begins with:

XIII

Conclusions: Theos as a Christological Title

A. The Use of θεός in the Pre-Christian Era

B. The Use of θεός in the New Testament

C. The Application of θεός to Jesus Christ

D. Limitations to the Use of θεός in Reference to Jesus Christ

E. Date of the Emergence of θεός as a Christological Title

F. Origin of the Usage

G. Reasons for the Infrequency of the Usage

H. The Cruciality of the Johannine Testimony

I. θεῖος, θεότης, θειότης, and θεός

J. The Significance of the Christological Use of θεός

1. θεός Is a Christological Title That Is Primarily Ontological in Character

2. θεός Is a Christological Title That Explicitly Affirms the Deity of Jesus

K. “Jesus Is God” as a Theological Formulation in English

L. General Conclusion

A. The Use of θεός in the Pre-Christian Era

Chapter I discussed the three common Hebrew terms that are rendered by θεός in the LXX: אל, אלהים, and יהוה. All three words are used of the God of Israel but only the first two can also refer to a particular pagan deity or, as generic appellatives, designate deity as such. יהוה, however, is exclusively a proper noun, denoting Israel’s covenant God, never a common noun, and therefore, unlike אל and אלהים, it never refers to angels or human beings.

In extrabiblical literature, θεός has three primary referents. As applied to gods, it may refer to a particular god (or even goddess), to the supreme god, Zeus, or to deity in general, whether viewed in personal or impersonal terms. As applied to human beings, the title θεός was used to describe famous heroes, politicians, philosophers, patriarchs, renowned rulers, self-styled servants of God, or even people as intelligent beings. And Jewish writers roughly contemporary with the writing of the NT, such as Philo and Josephus, use θεός or ὁ θεός to refer to the God of Israel.

For any Jew or Gentile of the first century a.d. who was acquainted with the OT in Greek, the term θεός would have seemed rich in content since it signified the Deity, the Creator of heaven and earth, and also could render the ineffable sacred name, Yahweh, the covenantal God, and yet was capable of extremely diverse application, ranging from the images of pagan deities to the one true God of Israel, from heroic people to angelic beings. Whether one examines the Jewish or the Gentile use of the term θεός up to the end of the first century a.d., there is an occasional application of the term to human beings who perform divine functions or display divine characteristics.

B. The Use of θεός in the New Testament

Of the 1,315 uses of θεός in the NT, 78.4% are articular and 21.6% are anarthrous. No uniform distinction may be drawn between ὁ θεός and θεός, since (1) as a nomen rectum θεός is articular or anarthrous generally depending on the state of the preceding noun (the canon of Apollonius); (2) within single NT books the same preposition is found with both an articular and an anarthrous θεός, with apparently no difference of meaning; and (3) as a virtual proper name, θεός shares the imprecision with regard to articular use that characterizes proper names in general. Yet occasionally ὁ θεός and θεός are distinguishable, as when the anarthrous θεός emphasizes “godhood” (a theological distinction), or when the articular θεός is always found with certain words (e.g., ἐνώπιον) or phrases (e.g., κύριος ὁ θεός) or is generally found with personal pronouns (syntactical distinctions without theological import).

An analysis of the use of (ὁ) θεός as a subject or predicate with the verb εἶναι expressed or unexpressed shows that the NT writers prefer ὁ θεός (45 examples) over θεός (5) as the subject, but θεός (16) over ὁ θεός (8) as the predicate. Of these 24 predicative uses of (ὁ) θεός, the term is usually qualified if it is articular and often qualified if it is anarthrous. Generally, then, the NT avoids a statement such as “X is (ὁ) θεός” unless that θεός is further defined.

Each strand of the NT affords clear testimony that customarily θεός, whether articular or anarthrous, refers to the trinitarian Father. Four converging lines of evidence support this conclusion: (1) the frequent compound appellative θεὸς πατήρ where the second noun is in epexegetic apposition (e.g., Gal. 1:1); (2) the various trinitarian formulations where ὁ θεός must denote the Father (e.g., 2 Cor. 13:13); (3) the many places where ὁ θεός is distinguished from κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, as in epistolary salutations (e.g., James 1:1); and (4) uses of (ὁ) θεός in contexts where reference is made to fatherhood, sonship, regeneration, or brotherhood (e.g., John 6:32–33). Whenever (ὁ) θεός is found in the NT, we are to assume that ὁ πατήρ is the referent unless the context makes this sense impossible. Nowhere is it appropriate to render ὁ θεός by “the divine Essence” or “the Godhead.”

C. The Application of θεός to Jesus Christ

From the detailed exegetical analysis in chapters II–XII, I conclude that it is certain that the term θεός is applied to Jesus Christ in John 1:1 and John 20:28, very probable in Romans 9:5, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8, and 2 Peter 1:1, probable in John 1:18, and possible but not likely in Acts 20:28, Hebrews 1:9, and 1 John 5:20 (see table 5). Other passages to which appeal is sometimes made include Matthew 1:23, John 17:3, Galatians 2:20, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 2:2, 2 Thessalonians 1:12, and 1 Timothy 3:16. In none of these latter verses is a christological use of θεός at all likely. In subsequent discussion in this chapter I shall therefore assume that θεός is applied to Jesus in seven NT passages: John 1:1, John 1:18; John 20:28, Romans 9:5, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8, and 2 Peter 1:1.

No NT writer makes the explicit assertion ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἐστιν θεός (or ὁ θεός). Nevertheless John has the absolute statement θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος (1:1), the dramatic collocation μονογενὴς θεός (1:18), which in expanded form would read μονογενὴς υἱὸς ὅς ἐστιν θεός, and the exclamation by which Thomas addressed Jesus, ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου (20:28), from which one may legitimately extrapolate two christological formulas: ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἐστιν κύριος (cf. the formula κύριος Ἰησοῦς) and ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἐστιν θεός (see chapter IV §C.2.a). In Romans 9:5 ὁ Χριστὸς ὁ ὢν θεός could be extrapolated from ὁ Χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα, ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς κτλ. The writer to the Hebrews has God address his Son using the vocatival ὁ θεός (1:8), which implies ὁ υἱός ἐστιν θεός. And from Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 one may deduce that Ἰησοῦς Χριστός ἐστιν ὁ θεὸς καὶ σωτὴρ ἡμῶν.

Murray J. Harris, Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus (Eugene, OR: Wipf & Stock, 2008), 269–273.

By the way, searching Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus for theo* words having theo- prefix finds: theological, theology, theophoric, theodicy, & theologically. Theos is the transliteration of θεός (& "Theo" was a typo by @C Mc on January 30 as "Theo" does not appear in the 2008 republication).

Keep Smiling 😊

C Mc · February 2023

By the way, searching Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus for theo* words having theo- prefix finds: theological, theology, theophoric, theodicy, &theologically. Theos is the transliteration of θεός (& "Theo" was a typo by @C Mc on January 30 as "Theo" does not appear in the 2008 republication).

@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus,

With verification, I will admit to my typo. Thanks in advance for pointing this out. CM

Searching · June 2023

The Deity of Jesus: "The Logos was God"

C Mc Dec 17, 2021

The Deity of Jesus is the center of all New Testament theology (or theologies). Why? Because "Jesus is God." It's in plain sight from Genesis to Revelation. Jesus is Co-equal, Co-creator, and Co-eternal with the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. There is no hiding, no shame. It's plain for all to see:
John 1:1
John 1:18
John 20:28
Rom. 9:5
Col. 2:2
Titus. 2:13
Heb. 1:8-9
2 Pet. 1:1 (See sources for others).
Out of these eight passages, three are found in John. Of these three, everyone acknowledges John 20:28 to be an unequivocal "deity-passage." Even a skeptic, Taylor, couldn't help but call the texts above "one clear ascription of Deity to Christ." What an acknowledgment this man gives in comparison to many professed Christian today.
Many tried to deny Jesus Christ was God incarnate. Their failure is equivalent to a man denying he was born. He may not know his birthday, but he can't deny his existence (see Hicks, Green; especially, Green's essay, "Jesus in the New Testament").
Read your Bible, the sources (below) to stimulate your thoughts, and add to the conversation in declaring the absolute Deity of Jesus: "The Logos was God." It's a treasure trove of biblical truth. CM
SOURCES:
John Hick, ed. The Myth of God Incarnate, (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1977).
Michael Green. ed, The Truth of God Incarnate, (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1977) 17ff.
Rudolf Bultmann "The Christological Confession of the World Council of Churches", Essays Philosophical and Theological, tr. James C. G. Greig (New York: Macmillan, 1955), 273ff.
Vincent Taylor "Does the New Testament Call Jesus "God"?", Expository Times, 73 (1961-62), 116ff.).
Raymond Brown "Does the New Testament Call Jesus "God"?", Theological Studies, 26 (1955), 545ff.).
Oscar Cullmann, The Christology of the New Testament, rev. ed., tr. Shirley C. Guthrie and Charles A. M. Hall (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1963), Ch. 11.
A. W. Wainwright, "The Confession "Jesus Is God" in the New Testament", Scottish Journal of Theology, 10 (1957), 274ff.
Ethelbert Stauffer, "Christ as Theos in Early Christianity", in Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, ed. Gerhard Kittel and Gerhard Friedrich, tr. and ed. Geoffrey W. Bromiley (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1964-76), III, 104ff., and
Johannes Schneider's contribution, "Christ as God",' in The New Interternation Dictionary of the New Testament, ed. Lothar Coenen, et. al., tr. and ed. Colin Brown (Exeter, England: Paternoster Press, 1975-78), 11, 80ff.

Well, let's try this. But first let's look at your opening statement that "The Deity of Jesus is the center of all New Testament theology (or theologies). Why?"Jesus is God". Not according to Jesus. He said in John 17:3, his Heavenly Father is the only true God which eliminates Jesus, HS or anyone else. In John 20:17 Jesus said "I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God. ” Does God have a God? Then we have Colossians 1:15 which tells us "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." This literally means first one born or created by God. So, as if John 17:3 and 20:17 weren't enough proof, we now see that Jesus had a beginning (God did not). Also, Something that is the image of something else cannot be the thing it is the image of. Again, in the book of John, the same writer as John 1:1, in verse 14, again Jesus himself speaking, he said "The Father is Greater than I". So he's not equal to the father. In Matthew 24:36 (again Jesus speaking) "No one knows the day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only".

So, if God is greater than Jesus, he doesn't know everything God knows, he was created by God, he says that his Father and his God is our Father and God and he says that his Heavenly Father is the only true it doesn't seem like Jesus thought he was God. Why would we?

Your proof texts:

First, in John 1:1 since in Greek there is no indefinite article (a, an) but there is a definite article (the) to show it is indefinite you must leave out the definite article. To show it is definite you must use the definite article (the). So when saying that Jesus was the word he used the definite article to show he was 'the" word, he did the same when he was saying that Jesus was with God he used the article (the) to show it was "the" God. But when saying the word was God he left out the definite article (the) showing that Jesus was not "the" God but a god, just like men and angels are called in the Bible. Bear in mind the same John wrote John 17:3 where he quoted Jesus as saying that his Heavenly Father was the only true God. So if Jehovah was the only true God that would obviously eliminate Jesus, HS or anyone else. Remember Jesus said it, not me.

In John 1:18 Jesus is called the "only begotten son". Strong's says this means only born which shows Jesus had a beginning. This alone seems to prove he could not be God. Oh, and the fact that he said only his Father was.

John 20:28. You know if I had been John I think I would have probably reacted the same way. Can you imagine the astonishment he must have felt. Yes, I would have said My Lord and my god, in amazement. Three verses after the account about Thomas, John said what he wrote was so that people “may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God”—not that he is God.—John 20: 28, 31. In John 20:17 Jesus said "I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God." Get that - My Father and My God.

Romans 9:5 seems to be of no consequence unless you think it says that Jesus is God but it doesn't seem to be the case. For example the KJV reads "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever." The ASV reads "whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the [a]flesh, who is over all, God blessed [b]for ever." AMP - "He who is exalted and supreme over all, God blessed forever." The NKJV - "He who is exalted and supreme over all, God blessed forever" Debatable at best.

Colossians 2:2 is pretty much summed up in NKJV - "that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, [a]both of the Father and of Christ." Doesn't seem to say Jesus is God either.

In Titus 2:13 it seems to be talking about two different subjects. "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;"

Hebrews 1:8.9 is a quote from Psalms 45 and was written to an earthly king. The fact that is says "your God has anointed you" shows that the king spoken of is inferior to God. God has no God. It even speaks of him having a wife so it could not be Jesus. If the verse is calling the king God, then that would make both Solomon and Jesus God.

Trinitarian versions usually translate the 2 Peter 1:1, “our God and Savior Jesus Christ,” and Trinitarians usually claim that this verse is an example of Jesus being referred to as God but there are also many translations such as these;
“of our God and the Saviour Jesus Christ” (ASV)
“of our God, and the Saviour Jesus Christ” (NOY; cp. Concordant Literal New Testament)
“of our God and of our Deliverer Yeshua the Messiah” (CJB)
“of our God and of our Saviour Jesus Christ” (Weymouth)
“of our God, and [our] Saviour Jesus Christ” (Rotherham; margin)
“of God and our Savior Jesus Christ” (Noah Webster Bible)
“of our God, and of Jesus our Lord” (C. Estes: The Better Version of the New Testament)

Peter speaks of God and Jesus in the same verse on a number of occasions, and never equates Jesus with God in them, but speaks of them as being different (1 Pet. 1:2, 3; 2:5; 3:21; 4:11; 5:10; 2 {et/ 1:2). Not only that, but God and Jesus are referred to as separate in the other epistles, which would make this an unusual reading.

Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus · July 2023

@Searching June 13 Well, let's try this. But first let's look at your opening statement that "The Deity of Jesus is the center of all New Testament theology (or theologies). Why?"Jesus is God". Not according to Jesus. He said in John 17:3, his Heavenly Father is the only true God which eliminates Jesus, HS or anyone else.

What is Godly humility ? Did true God expression by Jesus eliminate human body of Jesus having a portion of true God inside while another portion of true God was our Heavenly Father ruling as Melchizedek (King Righeous) over all the universe ?

Philippians 2:5-11 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>

Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of אלהים God, did not consider being equal with אלהים God something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross. Therefore also אלהים God exalted him and graciously granted him the name above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and of those on earth and of those under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is יהוה Lord, to the glory of אלהים God the Father.

What is Godly humility ?

@Searching June 13 In John 20:17 Jesus said "I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God. ” Does God have a God?

Can one voice of true God humbly express another voice of true God is God ?

@Searching June 13 Then we have Colossians 1:15 which tells us "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." This literally means first one born or created by God.

Greek phrases ", πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως," ", firstborn of/from all creation," & ", πρωτότοκος ἐκ τῶν νεκρῶν," "firstborn from the dead" are in the middle of one long sentence numbered Colossians 1:9-20 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>

Because of this also we, from the day we heard about it, did not cease praying for you, and asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual insight, so that you may live in a manner worthy of the יהוה Lord, to please him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good deed and increasing in the knowledge of אלהים God, enabled with all power, according to his glorious might, for all steadfastness and patience with joy, giving thanks to the Father who has qualified you for a share of the inheritance of the saints in light, who has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have the redemption, the forgiveness of sins, who is the image of the invisible אלהים God, the firstborn over all creation, because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him, and he himself is before all things, and in him all things are held together, and he himself is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he himself may become first in everything, because he was well pleased for all the fullness to dwell in him, and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by making peace through the blood of his cross, through him, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

How are Greek phrases ", the firstborn over all creation," & "the firstborn from the dead" related in describing יהוה Lord Jesus ?

@Searching June 13 First, in John 1:1 since in Greek there is no indefinite article (a, an) but there is a definite article (the) to show it is indefinite you must leave out the definite article. To show it is definite you must use the definite article (the).

We agree Koine Greek language does not have an indefinite article, but Koine Greek language can express indefiniteness.

John 1:3 SBLGNT => πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν

πάντα : all - adjective, nominative, plural, neuter

διʼ : through - preposition

αὐτοῦ : him - pronoun, 3rd person, genitive, singular, masculine

ἐγένετο : became - verb, aorist, middle, indicative, 3rd person, singular

καὶ : and - conjunction

χωρὶς : without - preposition

αὐτοῦ : him - pronoun, 3rd person, genitive, singular, masculine

ἐγένετο : became - verb, aorist, middle, indicative, 3rd person, singular

οὐδὲ : not - adverb

ἕν : one - adjective, nominative, singular, neuter (indefinite reference for ALL creation)

ὃ : which - pronoun, relative, nominative, singular, neuter (also indefinite)

γέγονεν : had been created - verb, perfect, active, indicative, 3rd person, singular

John 1:3 => all through him became, and without him not one. which had been created

Koine Greek language has also has τὶς indefinite pronoun (anyone, someone) that was first written by the Apostle in John 2:5

The first class for learning Koine Greek language in a number of colleges & universities uses a textbook that has John 1:1 explanation in Chapter 6:

Chapter 6

Nominative and Accusative; Article

(First and Second Declension Nouns)

Exegetical Insight

The nominative case is the case that the subject is in. When the subject takes an equative verb like “is” (i.e., a verb that equates the subject with something else), then another noun also appears in the nominative case—the predicate nominative. In the sentence, “John is a man,” “John” is the subject and “man” is the predicate nominative. In English the subject and predicate nominative are distinguished by word order (the subject comes first). Not so in Greek. Since word order in Greek is quite flexible and is used for emphasis rather than for strict grammatical function, other means are used to distinguish subject from predicate nominative. For example, if one of the two nouns has the article, it is the subject.

As we have said, word order is employed especially for the sake of emphasis. Generally speaking, when a word is thrown to the front of the clause it is done so for emphasis. When a predicate nominative is thrown in front of the verb, by virtue of word order it takes on emphasis. A good illustration of this is John 1:1c. The English versions typically have, “and the Word was God.” But in Greek, the word order has been reversed. It reads,

καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

and God was the Word.

We know that “the Word” is the subject because it has the article, and we translate it accordingly: “and the Word was God.” Two questions, both of theological import, should come to mind: (1) Why was θεός thrown forward? and (2) why does it lack the article?

In brief, its emphatic position stresses its essence or quality: “What God was, the Word was” is how one translation brings out this force. Its lack of the article keeps us from identifying the person of the Word (Jesus Christ) with the person of “God” (the Father). That is to say, the word order tells us that Jesus Christ has all the divine attributes that the Father has; lack of the article tells us that Jesus Christ is not the Father. John’s wording here is beautifully compact! It is, in fact, one of the most elegantly terse theological statements one could ever find. As Martin Luther said, the lack of the article is against Sabellianism; the word order is against Arianism.

To state this another way, look at how the different Greek constructions would be rendered:

καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν ὁ θεός

“and the Word was the God” (i.e., the Father; Sabellianism)

καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν θεός

“and the Word was a god” (Arianism)

καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

“and the Word was God” (orthodoxy).

Jesus Christ is God and has all the attributes that the Father has. But he is not the first person of the Trinity. All this is concisely affirmed in καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.

Daniel B. Wallace

William D. Mounce, Basics of Biblical Greek Grammar, ed. Verlyn D. Verbrugge and Christopher A. Beetham, Fourth Edition. (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2019), 33–34.

Isaiah 44:6-9 LEB =>

Thus says יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts: “I am the first, and I am the last, and there is no אלהים god besides me. And who is like me? Let him proclaim it! And let him declare it and set it in order for me since I established an eternal people and things that are to come, and let them tell them the things that are coming. You must not tremble, and you must not be paralyzed with fear. Have I not made you hear from of old and declared it, and you are my witnesses? Is there a אלהים god besides me? And there is no rock! I know none!” All those who form an idol are nothing, and their delightful things do not profit. And their witnesses do not see or know, so they will be ashamed.

How can New World Translation (NWT) of John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." be truthfully consistent with scripture ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6-9 as there is NO god beside יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts).

Could יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts simultaneously be two voices in one unique God ?

By the way, the NWT is inconsistent with an indefinite article insertion in English: added "a" in John 1:1c while did not add "a" in 1 John 4:8 "..., because God is love" & 1 John 4:16 "... God is love, ...". Consistent indefinite translation would have been "God is a love" (as noun ἀγάπη does not definite article in 1 John 4:8 & 1 John 4:16 for expressing ongoing ❤ love quality of The God).

Keep Smiling 😊

Brother Rando · July 2023

@Searching, @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus

By the way, the LEB is inconsistent with an indefinite article insertion in English: adding "a" in Hebrews 5:8 "Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered,"

Also, the LEB is inconsistent with multiple indefinite article insertions in English: adding "as" and "a" in Exodus 7:1 "See, I have made you as a אלהים god to Pharaoh,"

How can the Translation (LEB) in Exodus 7:1 "See, I have made you as a אלהים god to Pharaoh," be truthfully consistent with scripture ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6-9 as there is NO god beside יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts).

Not only does the Angel of Yahweh/Jehovah forgives sins, but is lawgiver, and judges Israel.

Behold, I send אלהים an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the Way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him and listen to his voice; do not contend against him, lest he will not forgive your sins, because my Name is upon him.
And the angel of Yahweh went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, “I brought you up from Egypt, and I brought you to the land that I had promised to your ancestors. I said, ‘I will never break my covenant with you.
Who brings the Nation of Israel out of Egypt into the land and makes s covenant with them?

The Apostle Paul calls this Angel -Christ- "10 For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all went through the sea, 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 and all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ. (1Corinthians 10:1-4)

9 nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes, (1Corinthians 10:9)

Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus · July 2023

@Brother Rando July 3 By the way, the LEB is inconsistent with an indefinite article insertion in English: adding "a" in Hebrews 5:8 "Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered,"

Remember chapter & verse numbering do NOT exist in original language manuscripts. The LEB often shows original language sentence length, but Hebrews 5:5-10 is one Greek sentence that has LEB showing two sentences in Hebrews 5:5-10 LEB =>

Thus also Christ did not glorify himself to become high priest, but the one who said to him,

“You are my Son, today I have begotten you,”

just as also in another place he says,

“You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek,”

who in the days of his flesh offered up both prayers and supplications, with loud crying and tears, to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard as a result of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered, and being perfected, he became the source of eternal salvation to all those who obey him, being designated by God a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 5:8a SBLGNT => "..., καίπερ ὢν υἱός, ..."

καίπερ : although - conjunction

ὢν : he being - verb, present, active, participle, singular, nominative, masculine

υἱός : son - noun, nominative, singular, masculine

LEB phrase "..., Although he was a son, ..." is smoother modern English than literal "..., although he being son, ..."

@Brother Rando July 3 Also, the LEB is inconsistent with multiple indefinite article insertions in English: adding "as" and "a" in Exodus 7:1 "See, I have made you as a אלהים god to Pharaoh,"

@Brother Rando July 3 How can the Translation (LEB) in Exodus 7:1 "See, I have made you as a אלהים god to Pharaoh," be truthfully consistent with scripture ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6-9 as there is NO god beside יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts).

Who is speaking in Exodus 7:1 and Isaiah 44:6-9 ?

Exodus 7:1-7 LEB =>

And יהוה Yahweh said to Moses, “See, I have made you as a אלהים god to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother will be your prophet. You will speak all that I will command you, and Aaron your brother will speak to Pharaoh, and he will release the Israelites from his land. And I myself will harden the heart of Pharaoh, and I will make my signs and my wonders numerous in the land of Egypt. And Pharaoh will not listen to you, and I will put my hand into Egypt and bring out my divisions, my people, the Israelites, from the land of Egypt with great punishments. And the Egyptians will know that I am יהוה Yahweh when I stretch out my hand over Egypt and bring the Israelites out from their midst.”

And Moses and Aaron did it; as יהוה Yahweh commanded them, so they did. (And Moses was eighty years old, and Aaron was eighty-three years old when they spoke to Pharaoh.)

To me, the LEB interpretive insertion "as a" in Exodus 7:1 is consistent with Isaiah 44:6-9 as Moses was a human servant of יהוה. Moses received אלהים god role to Pharaoh from יהוה.

How can New World Translation (NWT) of John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." be truthfully consistent with scripture ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6-9 as there is NO god beside יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts).

@Brother Rando July 3 Not only does the Angel of Yahweh/Jehovah forgives sins, but is lawgiver, and judges Israel.

@Brother Rando July 3 * Behold, I send אלהים an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the Way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him and listen to his voice; do not contend against him, lest he will not forgive your sins, because my Name is upon him.

Puzzling @Brother Rando assertion about sin forgiveness does NOT recognize the "he will NOT forgive your sins" in Exodus 23:20-21 quotation. Also puzzling is interpretive אלהים insertion as אלהים does NOT appear in Exodus 23:20-21 original language.

Can יהוה Yahweh speak thru an angel to human(s) ? Does that angel (messenger) become אלהים God ? Will an angel receive worship ?

Revelation 22:6-11 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>

And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true, and the יהוה Lord, the אלהים God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his slaves the things which must take place in a short time.”

“And behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

And I, John, am the one who heard and who saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed these things to me.

And he said to me, “Do not do that! I am your fellow slave, and of your brothers the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship אלהים God!”

And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near! The one who does evil, let him do evil still, and the defiled, let him be defiled still, and the righteous, let him practice righteousness still, and the holy, let him be holy still.”

Why did an angel of יהוה Lord (who spoke יהוה words to John) command 'Worship אלהים God' ?

@Brother Rando July 3 * And the angel of Yahweh went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, “I brought you up from Egypt, and I brought you to the land that I had promised to your ancestors. I said, ‘I will never break my covenant with you.

@Brother Rando July 3 * Who brings the Nation of Israel out of Egypt into the land and makes s covenant with them?

Judges 2:1-5 LEB =>

And the angel of יהוה Yahweh went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, “I brought you up from Egypt, and I brought you to the land that I had promised to your ancestors. I said, ‘I will never break my covenant with you. And as for you, do not make a covenant with the inhabitants of this land; break down their altars.’ But you did not listen to my voice. Why would you do such a thing? Now I say, I will not drive them out from before you; they will become as thorns for you, and their gods will be a trap for you.” And as the angel of יהוה Yahweh spoke these words to all the Israelites, the people wept bitterly. And they called the name of this place Bokim, and there they sacrificed to יהוה Yahweh.

Remembering many unfulfilled Watch Tower Society predictions has me wondering about desire of humans in Watchtower Society to hear & obey Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God as true prophets are 100% accurate.

@Brother Rando July 3 The Apostle Paul calls this Angel -Christ- "10 For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all went through the sea, 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 and all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ. (1Corinthians 10:1-4)

Greek word for angel (ἄγγελος) does not appear in the sentence numbered 1 Corinthians 10:1-5 => Οὐ θέλω γὰρ ὑμᾶς ἀγνοεῖν, ἀδελφοί, ὅτι οἱ πατέρες ἡμῶν πάντες ὑπὸ τὴν νεφέλην ἦσαν καὶ πάντες διὰ τῆς θαλάσσης διῆλθον, καὶ πάντες εἰς τὸν Μωϋσῆν ἐβαπτίσαντο ἐν τῇ νεφέλῃ καὶ ἐν τῇ θαλάσσῃ, καὶ πάντες τὸ αὐτὸ πνευματικὸν βρῶμα ἔφαγον καὶ πάντες τὸ αὐτὸ πνευματικὸν ἔπιον πόμα, ἔπινον γὰρ ἐκ πνευματικῆς ἀκολουθούσης πέτρας, ἡ πέτρα δὲ ἦν ὁ Χριστός· ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἐν τοῖς πλείοσιν αὐτῶν ηὐδόκησεν ὁ θεός, κατεστρώθησαν γὰρ ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ.

Noticed LEB inserted a period and rendered a colon as a period. 1 Corinthians 10:1-5 LEB (with Hebrew word usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: אלהים as God) =>

For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all went through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ. But אלהים God was not pleased with the majority of them, for they were struck down in the desert.

My eyes do not see a scripture basis for The Christ being an angel. My faith believes יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts (Isaiah 44:6) are two voices in one unique אלהים God. Also I believe יהוה Yahweh of hosts is The Christ = The Annointed One = The Messiah, who left His Holy throne in Heaven to be clothed in a human body, which was offered as a Holy sacrifice for sins (including mine).

@Brother Rando July 3 9 nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes, (1Corinthians 10:9)

1 Corinthians 10:6-22 LEB (with Hebrew words usually translated by Jewish scholars in LXX: יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God) =>

Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we should not be desirers of evil things, just as those also desired them, and not become idolaters, as some of them did, just as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and stood up to play,” nor commit sexual immorality, as some of them committed sexual immorality, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day, nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes, nor grumble, just as some of them grumbled, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now these things happened to those people as an example, but are written for our instruction, on whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore, the one who thinks that he stands must watch out lest he fall. Temptation has not come upon you except what is common to humanity. But אלהים God is faithful, who will not permit you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but will also make a way out together with the temptation, so that you may be able to endure it.

Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. I am speaking as to sensible people; you judge what I am saying. The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all share from the one bread. Consider Israel according to the flesh: are not the ones who eat the sacrifices sharers in the altar? Therefore, what am I saying? That food sacrificed to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but that the things which they sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to אלהים God, and I do not want you to become sharers with demons. You are not able to drink the cup of the יהוה Lord and the cup of demons. You are not able to share the table of the יהוה Lord and the table of demons. Or are we attempting to provoke the יהוה Lord to jealousy? We are not stronger than he is, are we?

I am learning whenever I think I am standing (I got this), I will fall short of loving Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God. Thankful for my temptations becoming more obnoxious/subtle that confirms my growth toward Being Holy as יהוה Lord אלהים God is Holy. Also I am learning that I need to memorize more scripture & meditate with delightful worship as described in Psalm 1:1-6 LEB =>

Blessed is the man who does not walk in the advice of the wicked;

nor does he stand in the way of sinners;

nor does he sit in the assembly of mockers.

Instead, in the law of יהוה Yahweh is his delight,

and on his law he meditates day and night.

And so, he is like a tree planted by streams of water

that gives its fruit in its season;

its leaf also does not wither.

Therefore all that he does prospers.

Not so the wicked.

Instead, they are like the chaff that the wind scatters.

Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,

nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous;

for יהוה Yahweh knows the way of the righteous,

but the way of the wicked will perish.

My desire is Holy fruit that pleases Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God.

Keep Smiling 😊

Brother Rando · July 2023

@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus wrote "Can יהוה Yahweh speak thru an angel to human(s) ? Does that angel (messenger) become אלהים God ? Will an angel receive worship ?"

Jesus Christ as the Angel of Jehovah has never accepted worship. Nor was there any commandment to do so.

So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." (Mark 10:18)
"God is spirit, and the ones who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:24)
But an hour is coming—and now is here—when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for indeed the Father seeks such people to be his worshipers. (John 4:23)

Pages · July 2023

Brother Rando Jul 4, 2023

@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus wrote "Can יהוה Yahweh speak thru an angel to human(s) ? Does that angel (messenger) become אלהים God ? Will an angel receive worship ?"
Jesus Christ as the Angel of Jehovah has never accepted worship. Nor was there any commandment to do so.
So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." (Mark 10:18)
"God is spirit, and the ones who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:24)
But an hour is coming—and now is here—when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for indeed the Father seeks such people to be his worshipers. (John 4:23)

@Brother Rando

"Jesus Christ as the Angel of Jehovah has never accepted worship."

I believe a bit more reading within the earlier published works of the WT might be enlightening for this.

Here is a question from a JW member, and the response from C. T. Russell in the July 15, 1898 Watchtower Magazine regarding the worship of Jesus.

"Was he (Jesus) really worshiped, or is the translation faulty?"

Having the following response: "Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so." (emphasis mine)

Also, speaking of Jesus and whether he, Jesus, is an angel; I recommend the Nov. 1879 publication by Charles Taze Russell:

"His position is contrasted with that of men and angels, as He is Lord of both, having "all power in heaven and earth." Hence it is said, "Let all the angels of God worship him; "[that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God] and the reason is, because He has "by inheritance obtained a more excellent Name than they." (R48: page 4, The Name of Jesus, ZION'S Watch Tower AND HERALD OF CHRIST'S PRESENCE. C. T. RUSSELL, Editor and Publisher. VOL. I. PITTSBURGH, PA., NOVEMBER, 1879. NO. 5.) (emphasis mine)

From this one may conclude that the current WT is at odds with its founder and founding theological principles.

It must be difficult for the members when at any time and upon any whim the governing body may change theological teachings as reflected by the above; giving the prospect of uncertainty for one's final destiny. The worship of Jesus by any current JW would certainly disqualify them from salvation would it not? Presumably by current standards those original believers who then worshiped Jesus would also be without salvation.

The Deity of Jesus: "The Logos was God"

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The Deity of Jesus: "The Logos was God"

The Scriptures, Reason and the Trinity — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

"And the Word was a god," article in Manford's Magazine 1887

"And the Word was a god," article in Manford's Magazine 1887

The Deity of Jesus: "The Logos was God"

The Deity of Jesus: "The Logos was God"

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