100 Truths About Jesus: Smoking Gun -- 2
Comments
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Coming soon, new thread, "I am" in the Bible. CM
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Coming soon, new thread, "I am" in the Bible. CM
"I am" is not a name or title of anyone. These two words are simply the pronoun "I" and the verb "am" (singular present tense form of "to be"). The words "I am" begin a statement by which someone identifies him-/herself in some form, such as "I am Wolfgang", "I am a musician", "I am happy", In response to a question, it would be, for example, "[Yes}, I am" or "I am [that person]", etc.
This is always the meaning, no matter who utters these words .... whether I, Wolfgang, or God (YHWH) says these words, the words always simply mean "I" and "am". Cp. Exo 20:1 ("I am the LORD thy God..."), or Exo 20:5 ("for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God"), or "I am German," Wolfgang said ... etc.
The words "I am" do not make anyone God, thus there is no need to avoid them in communication to try and be somehow especially devout or whatever else in that regard.
@C Mc .... "let us" not shoot ourselves in our own feet with a theological gun by following some obviously incorrect ideas 😉
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@Wolfgang You seem to miss both Jesus and God at every turn.
Surely you understand about Ex 3:13-15 where God Himself explains the whole name thing. I Am in English may be a simple descriptive pronoun and being verb, but in Hebrew, אֶהְיֶה, as God explained it to Moses, the term was quite a different thing.
O Lord, our Lord (אֶהְיֶה /YHWH our Adonai), how majestic is your name in all the earth!” Ps 8:1
“And those who know your name put their trust in you.” Ps 9:10
"...Then they will know that my name is the LORD [ אֶהְיֶה /YHWH].” Jer 16:21
It is one thing to believe God exists, yet more to know something about Him, and best of all to know Him well enough to know His name.
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@Wolfgang You seem to miss both Jesus and God at every turn.
Of course .... that must be the case as it could not be any different, could it?
Surely you understand about Ex 3:13-15 where God Himself explains the whole name thing.
Indeed ... and a good look at those verses will confirm what I wrote.
I Am in English may be a simple descriptive pronoun and being verb, but in Hebrew, אֶהְיֶה, as God explained it to Moses, the term was quite a different thing.
Even the English translations in Exo 3:14 have something like "I am WHO I AM" and the "WHO I AM hath sent me". The Greek LXX also provides the clear distinction in YHWH's words, "I am WHO I AM" => Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν, ... Ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς. The words Ἐγώ εἰμι simply mean "I" and "am", what God calls Himself is NOT Ἐγώ εἰμι ("I am") but rather Ὁ ὢν ("The Being One" / "Who I Am Being").
But then, I've learned over the years that such details in Scripture text don't seem to matter for those adhering to tradition dogmas ...
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Glad you agree. Earlier, I may have misunderstood you.
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Glad you agree. Earlier, I may have misunderstood you.
trying to be funny ? Did you read and understand what I wrote ?
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I presumed you said what you meant. I took it at honest face value. Was that an error?
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I presumed you said what you meant. I took it at honest face value. Was that an error?
Tell me what understood me to have written ... and I can tell you about error or not
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Wolfgang, I am not here to tell you what you have written or to second guess how you think. I saw Christian Discourse a while back and what looked like a few people talking about the Bible and life. I thought I might join and see what folks here were up to.
I am coming to discover quite a different picture than I originally thought and quite a curious very few people at that.
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Wolfgang, I am not here to tell you what you have written or to second guess how you think
Nor did I ask you to do such things ... I simply asked to tell me (clarify for me) what you understood me to have written. I happen to know how difficult it is to properly and accurately communicate (in particular when people from different language, religious or cultural backgrounds are involved. In such cases, asking for the other person to tell in their words what they understood is a very helpful means to avoid or correct misunderstandings or inaccurately articulated words.
And yes, on this forum you have folks who write and who are interested in Bible text based discussion and detailed study of text related matters.
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@byGeorge said:
I am coming to discover quite a different picture than I originally thought and quite a curious very few people at that.
Participant remorse? Many people share your concerns, but don't let them discourage you. There are plenty of legitimate topics and threads you can contribute, share with the larger silent readership, and bring honor to God. If you don't like what exists, you have the right and the privilege in CD to start a new thread. Don't forget the readership is a more extensive group than posters. The numbers are not everything. However, a larger pool of posters is ideal, not necessary to share and affirm biblical truths. So, gird up the loins of your mind and get to work, thinking, inviting new posters, reading widely, and refocus your attention. When one focuses only on the problem or some discontent, that is all one has. Look anew and be the change these forums need. CM
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I am increasingly skeptical.
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Are there any more "smoking guns" truth about Jesus forthcoming?
If "I am" indicates "God", what do Jesus' words "I am the true vine" (John 15:1) mean? Replacing "I am" with "God" would result in "God true vine" ?
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Are there any more "smoking guns" truth about Jesus forthcoming?
End time events described in the Bible seem increasingly understandable.
If "I am" indicates "God", what do Jesus' words "I am the true vine" (John 15:1) mean? Replacing "I am" with "God" would result in "God true vine" ?
The arrangement of words has different meaning due to usage, context, and grammar.
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@Wolfgang asked:
Are there any more "smoking guns" truth about Jesus forthcoming?
It's a wonder you asked, Wolfgang: For starters, many accept Jesus as their Savior and Lord. Already in the times of Jesus the opinions varied (Mt 16:13-14).
I. Jesus’ Claims
In the New Testament, many amazing claims about Jesus are found. But Jesus himself also made some interesting statements about himself.
(1) John 5:25-27 – He is the Son of God and the Son of Man and will raise the dead.
(2) John 6:47-48 – He provides eternal life for those who believe in him.
(3) John 10:30-33 – Jesus is one with God the Father.
(4) John 14:6 – Jesus is the only way to God, truth personified, and life.
(5) John 17:5 – Jesus lived with God before creation.
(6) John 18:37 – Jesus is King.
(7) Mk 14:61-62 – Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah. He sits at the right hand of God and will come back on the clouds.
(8) Mt 28:19-20 – Jesus is with us always, even to the end of the age.
This is not a comprehensive list. But it tells us:
- Although Jesus was a human being, God’s Son, who became man to save us.
- He is God and creator (John 1:1-3), judge and king, and will come again.
Jesus said of Himself and Scripture reveals. The most atheistic mind has to admit Jesus was more than just a man.
II. Reactions of His Audiences
While Jesus and his claims were rejected by several of his contemporaries (John 7:46-49), there were others who believed in him:
(1) Mk 15:39 – A Gentile, namely a Roman centurion.
(2) Mt 16:16 – Peter, one of his disciples.
(3) John 11:27 – Martha, a woman who followed him.
(4) John 20:25-28 – Thomas, a skeptic.
(5) Rom 9:5; Col 2:9 -- Paul who had persecuted the Christians and denied the Lordship of Jesus.
More books are written about him, more pictures and sculptures manufactured portraying him, more music composed to honor him than any other person that walked on this planet. Even time is reckoned from him.
III. Evidence for the Validity of His Claims
Centuries before his birth Old Testament prophets made detailed predictions about the Messiah to come. It is said that there are more than 300 such predictions that were fulfilled in Jesus. Most of them Jesus could not have fulfilled himself even if he had wanted to. The predictions include
- His genealogy
- Place of birth
- Year of the beginning of his public ministry
- Triumphal entry in Jerusalem
- Speaking in parables
- Performing miracles
- His rejection
- Betrayal
- Being abused and mocked
- His crucifixion
- Year of death
- His death in our place
- Burial
- Resurrection
Here are some examples:
(1) Micah 5:1; – Prediction: 8th century B.C., Bethlehem as the place of birth.
- Mt 2:1,5,6; Lk 2:1-7 – Fulfillment: -- God used the Roman emperor Augustus for the fulfillment of the prophecy because shortly before her delivery Mary and Joseph were still in Nazareth.
(2). Zech 9:9: – Prediction: -- 6th century B.C., triumphal entry.
- Mt 21:1-9; Mk 11:7 – Fulfillment -- Jesus enters Jerusalem.
(3) Zech 11:12-13 -- Prediction: -- Thirty shekels of silver to be paid for the Lord.
- Mt 26:15; 27:3-7 – Fulfillment: -- Jesus is betrayed for exactly thirty shekels of silver, Judas threw the money into the temple.
(4) Ps 22:16-19 – Prediction: -- 10th century B.C., crucifixion.
- John 20:25; 19:23-24 --Fulfillment: -- Jesus was crucified, and his clothes were distributed.
(5) Ex 12:46 – Prediction: -- c. 16th century B.C., no bone of the Passover lamb was to be broken.
- John 19:31-36 – Fulfillment: -- Jesus’ bones were not broken. The Passover lamb was a symbol for Jesus (John 1:29).
Mining the Word unearths nuggets of truth about Jesus. You can't make this stuff up. "What a Mighty God we serve"! Until next time, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ..." CM
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It's a wonder you asked, Wolfgang: For starters, many accept Jesus as their Savior and Lord.
So do I ...
Already in the times of Jesus the opinions varied (Mt 16:13-14).
Were all those opinions right and true? were some wrong and false?
Your list of claims is simply too long and a mix of too many points; actually many text passages have nothing even remotely to do with the question or claim made at the end about Jesus being Himself God.
So then, how do you suggest to continue in order to have a meaningful exchange about the topic and these text passages supposedly substantiating that overall claim that Jesus is God?
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Yes, opinions varied, and a purpose of that passage and the whole book is to clarify that Jesus, in fact, is divine.
All who refuse to believe are guilty of rejecting truth Jesus brought.
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@byGeorge wrote:
Yes, opinions varied, and a purpose of that passage and the whole book is to clarify that Jesus, in fact, is divine.
"is divine" does NOT mean "is God" .... The inspired Scriptures of the Bible are divine, but they are obviously not God!
So, could you clarify what you mean with your above statement (quoted from your recent post)?
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Addition to the statement:
"Jesus, in fact, is divine."
Jesus, in fact, is God.
“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
John 8:24
Post edited by byGeorge on -
John 8:24 tells that Jesus confirms that he is the human Messiah whom God has sent, and that those who won't believe that he is THE MESSIAH will die in their sins. Jesus does not claim "I am GOD", but "I am he (that one who is spoken of in the context of the exchange between Jesus and those Jews)
Your claim is not in harmony with what the text in the passage actually says and teaches.
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The passage does not exist in isolation. If it did, you could be right.
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Ha ha ha .... you are the one isolating it from its context. From where in the context do you interpret Jesus to say "I am God"??
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- Why would you laugh?
- The extent of context to which I refer is the entire Bible with emphasis on many passages (I offered an abridged list elsewhere) which explain how and why Jesus is God. The primary theme of the Bible is that Jesus is God.
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Why would you laugh?
I laugh at jokes ...
The extent of context to which I refer is the entire Bible with emphasis on many passages (I offered an abridged list elsewhere) which explain how and why Jesus is God. The primary theme of the Bible is that Jesus is God.
I am smiling ... your list did not have one scripture which teaches that Jesus is God, that God and Jesus are identical individuals.
"Context ... is the entire Bible" is another rather silly joking comment by itself ... if you do not know what the word "context" means, we have yet another problem for communication.
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I laugh at jokes ...
I like jokes but did not see one.
I am smiling ... your list did not have one scripture which teaches that Jesus is God, that God and Jesus are identical individuals.
Correct. Not one passage in the list teaches that God and Jesus are identical individuals. They are not. Rather, the passages reflect that Jesus is God.
if you do not know what the word "context" means, we have yet another problem for communication.
Here is an internet definition of "context" which is how I intended the word to be understood:
the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
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Correct. Not one passage in the list teaches that God and Jesus are identical individuals. They are not. Rather, the passages reflect that Jesus is God.
You seem to use the term "God" in some rather peculiar way ... before any further exchange, you should clarify for us how you use this term and for whom or for what... is "God" a characteristic? an individual living Being? a team or group of several multiple individual Beings? A particular kind of something? something else ?
There is no sense in talking further when participants are using terms in terms which the other does not understand.
For me, the true God is an individual living spirit Being, biblically described as the Creator, as the Almighty, as the one whom the man Jesus called his Father ... The true God is not a group, team, or family of multiple individuals. I deem this short description of my understanding and use of the term as in harmony with how the Bible portrays the true God.
Now then, let's see your description of who and what you understand the true God to be ...
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For me, the true God is an individual living spirit Being, biblically described as the Creator, as the Almighty, as the one whom the man Jesus called his Father ... The true God is not a group, team, or family of multiple individuals.
That seems like an excellent description. The part you are missing is who the son of God is. Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, in the form of a man. This isn't difficult. You accept or reject Jesus, not merely the name or some historical person (however good), you accept or reject God in the person of Jesus who, as God, died for your sins. Miss that broad, clear, focal point of Scripture and you miss your one and only messiah.
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The part you are missing is who the son of God is.
How did I miss such when the topic was not about who the son of God is??
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, in the form of a man.
So then, since Mr. Ford is manifest in his automobiles, do you claim that a Ford car actually is Mr. Ford? Even just the use of "is manifest" as used in your statement distinguishes between TWO => (1) God, and (2) the human being Jesus. As one can rather easily see, "God" is not "the human person Jesus".
This isn't difficult.
Except it becomes difficult and actually impossible when claims as yours above are made.
You accept or reject Jesus, not merely the name or some historical person (however good), you accept or reject God in the person of Jesus who, as God, died for your sins. Miss that broad, clear, focal point of Scripture and you miss your one and only messiah.
I accept Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, who was a man, a human being, the last Adam.
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How did I miss such when the topic was not about who the son of God is??
I don't know.
since Mr. Ford is manifest in his automobiles,
God manifest in the man Jesus has nothing to do with Mr. Ford and his automobiles.
Wolfgang, Do you have a body only? Do you have a spirit only? Do you have both a body and a spirit? If you have both, are they one person or two people?
I accept Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, who was a man, a human being, the last Adam.
No doubt, we both agree with your statement.
Wolfgang isn't just a body. There is some Wolfgang-person in that body. Do we agree? Does that make you two people or one? God is that person in Jesus. Jesus the human being, the last Adam, has both a body and a person. That person is God.
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the last Adam, has both a body and a person. That person is God.
as the first Adam also was God? as all who believe on Christ receive holy spirit also are God(s) ?
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