Abortion and Guns: A conundrum?
Comments
-
@reformed posted:
Yeah I go with God's view on the matter.
A noble intention, certainly, but throughout time, proponents of radical, fringy views have defended them on the grounds that they embodied God's view, when the truth was those views reflected the proponents' views FAR more accurately than God's.
-
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus, you said:
According to Exodus 21:22-25, what is Holy Righteous God Justice for someone who causes a baby in a woman's womb to die?
Exodus 21:22-25, is a "casuistic" or "case law". That is it has "specific punishments connected to them. Almost all of the Ten commandments have at least one case law relating to it and some have numerous. The principle of Exodus 21:22-25, must apply today.
The law that calls for an "eye for an eye..., etc.", is called "lex talionis or law of the talion" (opposed to vengeance). It's known to be "primitive and barbaric", but it's really justice through equal compensation. This is also found in Duet 19:21; Lev. 24:19. Believe it or not, this law is not to promote retaliation. It is to:
- Make the punishment fit the crime. Minor injury a "fine" appropriate. In the case of a serious injury, the punishment should be more severe.
- A feud law, for retaliation that is both swift and excessive. One is not to take more, but to take an equivalent to what one lost. The punishment is to fit the crime in type and amount.
"A life for a life" -- punishment fit the crime. It needs to be asked at this point, what is an "Unborn"? This needs a new thread. CM
-
Wolfgang,
You are better than this! Killing two people for one? Is this fair? Does this make sense in today's world? If Mr. Reformed Law goes into effect based on numbers submitted, (619,591-- U. S. "Abortions") are you willing to help kill the parents of this number? Are you willing to be a part of the firing squad, increase taxes to buy the lethal injection (needle/chemical), help man the crematory or manage cemeteries? Don't give credence to Mr. Reformed's idea of law, punishment, and his willingness to justify killing a man on his property (an intruder or an apparent thief). He seems to be willing to kill a man/innocent and animals, but a heart to save the "unborn". His idea came from a lobotomy mind. Something is wrong with this picture and the thought behind it. CM
-
You are better than this! Killing two people for one? Is this fair?
Well, if two conspire together to murder one, should one of the two not be held accountable?
What's your idea about "fairness"? In case you are just waking up => Life is NOT fair!
-
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Thankful & sad for 1984 movie "The Slient Scream" as a 12 week old baby silentlly screams in a womb while being cut up (killed).
@C Mc This movie is pure propaganda. It has been debunked. It's a shame some are still using it to spread fear, shame, disinformation. CM
Third request: Please provide two OR three factual witnesses for movie being debunked. Otherwise your idea "This movie is pure propaganda." lacks crediblity. Lack of verifiable witnesses is affirming credibility of 1984 movie "The Slient Scream" by a medical doctor explaining "procedure".
Keep Smiling 😊
-
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus According to Exodus 21:22-25, what is Holy Righteous God Justice for someone who causes a baby in a woman's womb to die?
@C Mc Exodus 21:22-25, is a "casuistic" or "case law". That is it has "specific punishments connected to them. Almost all of the Ten commandments have at least one case law relating to it and some have numerous. The principle of Exodus 21:22-25, must apply today.
What is Holy Righteous God's Justice for America that chooses idolatry & bloodguilt (people killing people: abortion, guns, ...) over Loving God ? Sadly remembering Ezekiel 24 so wondering how soon for pot to boil in America for national destruction. To me, only hope is massive repentance from sin to Holy Righteous God's Love ❤️ (sadly see American Pride provoking Holy Righteous God to stoke fires for cleansing: Ezekiel 24 repeat)
Keep Smiling 😊
-
I haven't forgotten about you. I will get to you. Stay tuned.
1984 movie "The Slient [Silent] Scream" as a 12 week old baby silentlly [silently] screams in a womb while being cut up (killed).
@C Mc This movie is pure propaganda. It has been debunked. It's a shame some are still using it to spread fear, shame, disinformation. CM
I still stand, strongly, behind my statement above. When I share my findings, would you stop using this movie to mislead? You seem to have so much riding on this. It could be quite embarrassing. You will get over it. CM
-
Calling abortion murder is not radical. It's biblical.
-
@reformed posted:
Calling abortion murder is not radical. It's biblical.
I don't contend that your view of abortion as murder is radical. By default, I think such a view is quite mainstream, just as I also believe, by default, that the view that abortion is not murder is quite mainstream (in my view, there's room in the mainstream for contrary points of view).
What I contend is radical is the view you posted HERE - namely that "[t]he mother should be tried for murder, the father, if he consented, should be, the doctors and nurses anyone actively involved in both the decision and the action should be charged with murder and, if found guilty, put to death." I think your view that "anyone actively involved" in "the decision and the action" of an abortion - a profile that could identify lots of people, from supportive friends to fellow church members, and even the woman's pastor - should be charged with murder and executed if convicted, is a radical, fringy idea. That we would execute four, six, twelve, who knows how many people for each abortion is an extremist view, one that for good reasons has NO chance of EVER becoming law.
I respect but disagree with your view that abortion is murder. Your view that every abortion should result in multiple executions, however, I view as radical, fringy, and extremist.
-
So it was a bit over the top, my point, using hyperbole, is that all of those people are, in fact, guilty of murder by God's standard.
-
@reformed posted:
So it was a bit over the top, my point, using hyperbole, is that all of those people are, in fact, guilty of murder by God's standard.
You needed hyperbole to assert your view that everyone involved in an abortion is guilty of murder by God's standard? Couldn't you have just said you think everyone involved in an abortion is guilty of murder by God's standard? Instead you chose to propose the execution of an imprecise number of people (but certainly more than just the mother and medical professional who performs the abortion), and when called to account for the radical scope of your idea, you acknowledge only that it was "a bit over the top." Your response reminds me of former President Trump's "I was being sarcastic" defense of his infamous commentary on the potential of injected disinfectant as a COVID-19 treatment. With due respect, I think Mr. Trump meant what he said the first time, and I think you meant what you posted.
You have every right in the world to such a belief, of course! But own it, for goodness' sake.
-
@C Mc I haven't forgotten about you. I will get to you. Stay tuned.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus 1984 movie "The Silent Scream" as a 12 week old baby silently screams in a womb while being cut up (killed).
@C Mc This movie is pure propaganda. It has been debunked. It's a shame some are still using it to spread fear, shame, disinformation. CM
@C Mc I still stand, strongly, behind my statement above. When I share my findings, would you stop using this movie to mislead? You seem to have so much riding on this. It could be quite embarrassing. You will get over it. CM
Planning to use same method as Cold Case detective J. Warner Wallace to investigate any finding(s). Two OR three verifiable factual witnesses would provide reason to stop misleading. Thankful for Holy Righteous God anwsering my prayer request so 😭 have heard 💔 heart wrenching screams of murdered babies at times 😭 Thankful for a prison Chaplain who has also heard 💔 heart wrenching screams of murdered babies 😭
Honestly doubt any @C Mc finding(s) being verifiable facts per Cold Case murder investigative method. Thus far four replies lack any credibility for prideful "This movie is pure propaganda." idea. If unable to provide two OR three verifiable factual witnesses debunking movie, would you @C Mc admit 1984 movie "The Silent Scream" by a medical doctor explaining "medical procedure" to kill (abort) a baby in the womb is factual ?
Bible search for pride AND fall found verses in several Bibles: Proverbs 16:18, Ezekiel 24:21, Ezekiel 30:6, Ezekiel 32:12, Hosea 5:5, 1 Timothy 3:6
Keep Smiling 😊
-
Good thing you do not get to determine what I or President Trump meant.
-
@reformed posted:
Good thing you do not get to determine what I or President Trump meant.
Ask 100 objective persons to "determine" what you meant when you wrote, "[t]he mother should be tried for murder, the father, if he consented, should be, the doctors and nurses anyone actively involved in both the decision and the action should be charged with murder and, if found guilty, put to death." How many of those 100 will determine that you meant that anyone actively involved in an abortion should be charged with murder and, if found guilty, put to death, and how many of them will determine that you didn't mean people actively involved with an abortion should be be charged with murder, and, if found guilty, put to death, but rather meant only that abortion is murder in God's standard?
-
And again, you, nor anyone else, gets to decide what I meant.
-
@reformed posted:
And again, you, nor anyone else, gets to decide what I meant.
There are limits to the "I get to decide what I meant" rationalization of what we say. For example:
- I say "My name is Richard."
- You then quote me as saying that my name is Richard.
- I deny that I said my name is Richard on the grounds that you don't get to determine what I meant when I said my name is Richard. And since I alone get to determine what I meant when I said my name is Richard, what I meant when I said my name is Richard was that my name is Bill.
It doesn't work that way.
You wrote and meant what you wrote. Own it.
-
Again, you aren't the one that gets to decide that. You aren't god.
-
@reformed said to @Bill_Coley:
"... You aren't god."
If your words to Bill are true, aren't they are applicable to you? Why do you try to play God in desiring to take the life of the mother and father who consented to have an abortion? You didn't and can't create life (only God can); yet, you are willing to order and demand the death of thousands of people over a medical procedure that is between a woman and her doctor. Your opinion, on this matter, reflects a god-complex, callousness, and shame.
Reformed, in order for your opinions to be received in these forums, on this subject matter, I strongly, suggest the repudiation of your original statement:
Failure to do so, your opinions "lose ALL credibility on the life issue and [you] should just quit talking". If for no other reason, when your views on this subject matter are taken to its logical ends (I laid out in this thread), it points to a mindless, murderous, sociopath. I am sure you don't want to send this message to the CD audience. CM
-
Read all the other posts idiot. Do keep up.
-
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus said:
Two OR three verifiable factual witnesses would provide [a] reason to stop misleading
Here are the witnesses that the 1984 movie, "The Silent Scream" is pure propaganda. The mid-1980s, leaders of the anti-abortion movement produced the video. It has been debunked. The movie is a 12-week old baby silently screams in a womb. To the dismay of many, it's a shame some are still using it to spread fear, shame, disinformation. I said in the past and I say today, I stand, strongly, behind my statement above. I hope would you stop using this movie to mislead. It's riddled with scientific, medical, and legal inaccuracies as well as misleading statements and exaggerations to frighten American women away from choosing a medical procedure in consultation with their family, health, and doctors. Why self-righteous people would be so intrusive on this matter and not about othe medical procedures?
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus here are the "Two OR three verifiable factual witnesses" [Medical/professionals] you demanded. A panel of medical experts reviewed and critiqued the video to expose these distortions and deceits. Panel members were:
- Sally Faith Dorfman, MD
- Assistant Professor, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Assistant Clinical Professor, Mount Sinai
- Hart Peterson, MD
- Chief of Pediatric Neurology, New York Hospital, Clinical Professor of Neurology in Pediatrics, Cornell University Medical Center
- William Rashbaum, MD
- Assistant Clinical Professor, Albert Einstein College of Medicine
- Seymour L. Romney, MD
- Professor, Ob/Gyn, Director, Gynecological Cancer Research, and former Chairman, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Albert Einstein College of Medicine
- Allan Rosenfield, MD
- Professor, Ob/Gyn and Public Health, Acting Chairman, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology Director, Center for Population and Family Health, College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University
- Herbert G. Vaughan, Jr. MD
- Professor of Neuroscience, Neurology and Pediatrics, Director, Rose F. Kennedy Center for Research in Mental Retardation and Human Development, Albert Einstein College of Medicine
- Ming-Neng Yeh, M
- Associate Clinical Professor, Dept. of Ob/Gyn Ultrasound Laboratory, Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center.
I hope this satisfies your demands of "Two OR three verifiable factual witnesses"? More later on the Silent Scream, which seek to portrays the performance of an abortion done under ultrasonography. The thing people will do impose on the life of others. CM
-
@C Mc I hope this satisfies your demands of "Two OR three verifiable factual witnesses"? More later on the Silent Scream, which seek to portrays the performance of an abortion done under ultrasonography. The thing people will do impose on the life of others.
Observation: panel paper was published by Planned Parenthood, who profits from selling aborted baby parts (reminds me of unclean hands).
To me, the 1985 Planned Parenthood paper reads as "expert" propaganda, includes denial about Post Abortion Stress Syndrome. Planned Parenthood has financial incentive to NOT acknowledge emotional trauma in mother after abortion kills baby. If pretend Post Abortion Stress Syndrome does not exist, then do not need to counsel nor provide information about long term emotional trauma prior to abortion murder.
Keep Smiling 😊
-
CORRECTIONS, CORRECTIONS, CORRECTIONS
WHERE ARE THE CHRISTIANS?
Where the Christians who preach, so forcefully, the "Word";
When it comes to gun-killings, they can hardly be heard.
How long will we remain behind steel or sealed doors;
When many of our youth need mentors.
We share what Jesus taught in the Bible;
yet, we behave so tribal;
By not holding cops and citizen gun-users libel.
Must we keep silent? CM
PS. A gun in the hands of Christians is more destructive than a scalpel in the hand of a doctor.
-
@C Mc PS. A gun in the hands of Christians is more destructive than a scalpel in the hand of a doctor.
For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning: that we should love one another, not as Cain, who was of the evil one and violently murdered his brother. And for what reason did he violently murder him? Because his deeds were evil and the deeds of his brother were righteous. Do not marvel, brothers, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed over from death to life because we love the brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that every murderer does not have eternal life residing in him. We have come to know love by this: that he laid down his life on behalf of us, and we ought to lay down our lives on behalf of the brothers. But whoever has the world’s material possessions and observes his brother in need and shuts his heart against him, how does the love of God reside in him? Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. By this we know that we are of the truth and will convince our heart before him, that if our heart condemns us, that God is greater than our heart and knows all things. Dear friends, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God, and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what is pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment: that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he commanded us. And the one who keeps his commandments resides in him, and he in him. And by this we know that he resides in us: by the Spirit whom he has given to us. (1 John 3:11-24 LEB)
@C Mc By not holding cops and citizen gun-users libel.
Is possessing something that can be used to kill a sin ? If so, did Jesus sin in Luke 22:35-38 ?
Sad history lesson of Bible & Prayer being removed from public education is showing in more violence (words & objects used for destruction).
What the world needs now is Love, God's Love, that's the only thing there is just too little of.
By the way, Alpha.org videos include many on the street questions (in various places) showing great lack of biblical learning.
Keep Smiling 😊
-
Biden calls for hiring more police, cracking down on illegal guns to combat crime
Lord, please, hear your children praying and get rid of the guns in America. CM
-
Biden calls for hiring more police, cracking down on illegal guns to combat crime
Sure .... the people must not have means to rise against dictatorship.
Those applauding such "politics" are ignorant of the simple fact that criminals don't care about laws in the first place ... and will be happy when possible armed resistance is "legally" eliminated 😉
-
-
More Medical Inaccuracies from the movie "The Silent Scream":
They claimed that a 12-week fetus experiences pain.🤔 At this stage of the pregnancy, the brain and nervous system are still in a very early stage of development. The beginnings of the brain stem, which includes the rudimentary thalamus and spinal cord, are being formed. Most brain cells are not developed. . Additionally, experts find that newborns at 26-27 weeks’ gestation (24-25 weeks’ fetal age) who survive have significantly less responsiveness to pain than full-term newborns.
See what The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists have to say on the matter:
We know of no legitimate scientific information that supports the statement that a fetus experiences pain early in pregnancy.
We do know that the cerebellum attains its final configuration in the seventh month and that mylenization (or covering) of the spinal cord and the brain begins between the 20th and 40th weeks of pregnancy. These, as well as other neurological developments, would have to be in place for the fetus to receive pain.
To feel pain, a fetus needs neurotransmitted hormones. In animals, these complex chemicals develop in the last third of gestation. We know of no evidence that humans are different.
Who are you going to believe, a lying debunked movie or medical experts? Why would extremists mislead people? CM
-
Why are we getting advertisements for guns support and accessories? Haven't we seen enough deaths? Manufacturers made guns to kill. What Christian in his right mind wants a gun today? CM
-
Why are we getting advertisements for guns support and accessories?
- Some people want to sell that stuff.
- Some people want to buy such stuff.
Haven't we seen enough deaths?
There will be more. The Bible says so.
Manufacturers made guns to kill.
My friend and I had a great time "killing" some old cans of unwanted shaving cream on the front lawn a while back. You should have seen the foam fly!
What Christian in his right mind wants a gun today? CM
Lots. Some want them to kill people. Some to kill game for the freezer. Others to kill skunks spreading disease out behind the barn. Yet more to shoot a little skeet. Others are collectors. Some are investors. A few like to pop tin cans (especially with shaving cream). Yet others use them to start races. Some enjoy the bang and kick. Back when we were kids we made out own guns/canons. One friend accidentally shot the family rooster dead with a peach out of a pipe. His dad was not happy! I suppose many of these people are in their right minds.
Are you in your right mind? If so, why do you want guns? (If not, maybe you should pursue other interests.)
-
Oops. Missed the abortion aspect. Right. Abortion rips apart vastly more lives than guns. All those aborted lives are innocent children living in a mother who is keenly aware of the living person growing safely within her nurturing care--until some outside force comes along and rips it apart. There are barbaric people who defend such mass killing of the innocent as we know. But God is clear about His judgment on such people.
![[Deleted User]](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fcddec765be35f238a0844bd23f54b59/?default=https%3A%2F%2Fvanillicon.com%2F8ce8323767a20f0f45db140c4cd2cea1_200.png&rating=g&size=200)
