Bible or Copernicus?

Do we live on a tiny tiny tiny tiny "solid" ball floating around an expanding sort of "almost empty" space with millionis billions trillions or more gas balls also floating around with distances measuring totally unimaginable numbers of miles and even millions of "light years"? In other words, what is "science" really telling us with their ideas of an exploding "cosmos" (that started with a "big bang" unimaginably long ago)?

Does the Bible have a different cosmos in view in what it reports about heavens and earth? about God and man?

Comments

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,053

    @Wolfgang posted:

    Do we live on a tiny tiny tiny tiny "solid" ball floating around an expanding sort of "almost empty" space with millionis billions trillions or more gas balls also floating around with distances measuring totally unimaginable numbers of miles and even millions of "light years"?

    In my view, Wolfgang, your description takes some creative license, but is essentially correct about the scientific consensus regarding the state and population of the observable universe. Compared to most astronomical objects, the earth IS a "tiny tiny tiny 'solid' ball floating around" what is expanding space. And the distances between objects in space IS beyond most human imagination. My goodness, the closest star to the earth is 4.3 light years away, which is about 26 trillion miles. The most distant observable objects in the universe are 13 billion light years from us. Astonishing.


    In other words, what is "science" really telling us with their ideas of an exploding "cosmos" (that started with a "big bang" unimaginably long ago)?

    I think what science is telling is currently the best and most accurate description of the origins, content, and future of the universe. In the future, might there be major revisions to the current model? Of course; in fact, I'd bet on it because the history of astronomy is filled with such changes. But that's the beauty of science! Throughout history, science has revised its description of the world around us as human knowledge expanded. I can't imagine that we'd want it any other way. What's the alternative? "We know the best available evidence suggests X is true, but since we've always believed Y is true, not X, we're not going to change our view"?


    Does the Bible have a different cosmos in view in what it reports about heavens and earth? about God and man?

    In my view, the cosmos of the Bible is not a scientific construct, but a theological one. For Bible writers, whatever is up and out there in the universe is God's handiwork. The ancients didn't know about other galaxies or the cosmic microwave background... and didn't need to know, for theirs were declarations of faith, not theories from scientific discovery.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,626

    FOR WHAT ITS WORTH!

    The heavens witness to the Bible’s revelation of God and of His power:

    1.     “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows His handiwork.” Psalm 19:1


    ·       “Everything points with overwhelming force to a definite event, or series of events, of creation at some time or times, not infinitely remote. The universe cannot have originated by chance out of its present ingredients, and neither can it have been always the same as now.” -Sir James H. Jeans, Eos, page 55. 

     

    2.     All created things give witness to their Maker and to the truth of the Bible record.


    ·       “For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead.” 


    ·       “All human discoveries seem to be made only for the purpose of confirming more and more strongly the truths contained in the Sacred Scriptures.” - Sir John Herschel, quoted by Howard A. Johnston, Bible Criticism and the Average Man, page 26. 


    ·       “Science is compelled to accept the idea of creative power.”-Lord Kelvin, quoted by Bernard Heywood, This Is Our Faith, page 36. 


    ·       “In our study of natural objects, we are approaching the thoughts of the Creator, reading His conceptions, interpreting a system that is His and not ours.”- Louis J. R. Agassiz, Methods of Study in Natural History, 19th ed., page 14


    There are some striking facts of the natural world which were actually anticipated in the Bible long before they were discovered by the scientists”


    1.     “He ... hangs the earth upon nothing.” Job 26:7. 

    ·      The suspension of the earth in space was described by Copernicus in 1543. 

    ·      “He looks to the ends of the earth: to make the weight for the winds.” Job 28:24,25. 

    ·      Galileo, (1564-1642) was the first to affirm that air had weight. 


    2.     “Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of His hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?” Isaiah 40:12.

    ·      Only in recent years has it been realized how important are the proportions and balance of the land masses and oceans on the earth’s surface. 


    3.     “They [the heavens and the earth] shall perish; but Thou remains; and they all shall wax old as cloth a garment.” Hebrews 1:11

    ·       Not until the twentieth century was the progressive aging and disintegration of matter by radioactivity discovered. Nature is going down. “The downward journey is easy, while the upward is either hard or impossible.”-Sir lames H. Jeans, The Universe Around Us, page 306.


    4.     “For the life of all flesh is the blood thereof.” Leviticus 17:14. 

    ·      The circulation and function of the blood was discovered by William Harvey in 1615. 

    ·      “Prophecy and miracle confirm the word; science and revelation are co-witnesses to the same God; astronomy hints His eternity, immensity, infinity, natural philosophy tells of His omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence; physiology suggests His wisdom and goodness the beginnings of life, of consciousness, of intelligence and of conscience, are miracles which cannot be accounted for without Almighty power, and ought to make both atheism and pantheist alike impossible. While the heart of man and the history of man unite to witness to a need and a craving never filled except by Christ Jesus.” -Arthur T. Pierson, Many Infallible Proofs, page 19.


    5.     Men have spoken “to the earth,” and it has taught us. 

    ·      Buried civilizations of earlier days have yielded their treasures to the spade of the archaeologist. 


    6.     There are Bible facts once denied by the critics, but have been completely confirmed by modern archaeological discoveries.

    ·      They declared that Abraham was a half-savage nomad quite incapable of the activities credited to him in the Biblical record. Now it has been proven by Professor Leonard Woolley that a high state of civilization existed in the Near East long before the days of Abraham. Read his Ur of the Chaldees. Sir Charles Marston, New Bible Evidence, pages 88-123. 

    Until next time, the Bible speaks before and beyond man. CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,736
    edited December 2019

    What's the alternative? "We know the best available evidence suggests X is true, but since we've always believed Y is true, not X, we're not going to change our view"?

    The alternative could be that both often propagated theories "X" or "Y" are wrong and not really the truth which the Creator's revelation in Scripture reveals ... which may be "A" 😉

    What is propagated as "best evidence" is not even real evidence as it is only what some perceive and claim to be true ... put in simple words, the evidence some see is that two sides of a train track converge into one in only a short distance ... or they scientifically calculate distances based on the assumption that light rays are straight rather than curved ...

    In addition, certain observations including infra-red photography have shown objects way past the supposed horizon line of a convex ... which should be ab impossibility according to the model of a convex earth globe ....

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,736

    The worst of the current Copernican model of a universe is that it essentially does away with a Creator God ... as does all man made "theology", replacing the true God with various kinds of man invented (and thus actually man elevating) "God"-imaginations and "God"-descriptions.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,626

     "Man made "theology"? What is true "theology"? An example, if not the trinity. CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,736

    "Man made "theology"? What is true "theology"? An example, if not the trinity. CM

    In short, all "theology" is man made ... it is what man has thought up about God and put in systematic thought and word; in other words, it has its origins with man.

    In contrast to "theology" you have divine revealed truth .. it is what God has revealed about Himself and has made known by means of revelation.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,736

    Hello everyone,

    anyone interested should have a look at some scientific experiment and its results for determining the cosmological sphere of the earth:


  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,626

    What's the point, Wolfgang?


    Here's What the World Will Look Like in 2030 ... Right?



    These six visions from humans today span space colonies, a genetic panopticon, and straight-up apocalypse.

    Predicting the future is hard, but that doesn't stop people from trying—especially people named Elon Musk. As he well knows, being bold is pretty much the only way thought castles can become concrete (or wood, brick, or metal).

    In this list, WIRED has gathered a handful of far-reaching goals as a framework for what to expect in the decade ahead. Space colonies. A mega-expansion in genome sequencing. Sweet little nuclear power plants. It's never too early to start holding the promise-makers responsible for their claims. After all, even a bajillionaire needs an accountability buddy....

    Climate Apocalypse Now

    In October 2018 the UN warned that humanity has 12 years left to avoid catastrophic climate change. That means that by 2030, we’ll need to cut global greenhouse gas emissions in half, not so much a tall order as a towering one, given that emissions are still rising year to year.

    In fairness, the world won’t suddenly end on January 1, 2030, if we don’t meet that goal. But the report is spot-on in its mantra: The faster we switch to a world economy run on renewable energy, the better we can attenuate the consequences—stronger storms, rising seas, fiercer wildfires.

    So what can we do? For one, we need carbon taxes the world over: Release greenhouse gases and you pay a fee, which incentivizes the adoption of green energy. We have to massively subsidize solar panels and electric cars. We have to bolster public transportation and redesign cities to discourage the use of cars. And this may sound niche, but it’s hugely important: AC units need a fundamental redesign to be more efficient or 22even sequester CO2, as demand for them soars in lockstep with global temperatures. —Matt Simon....

    Teeny Tiny Nuclear Power Plants

    By 2030, the Vogtle power plant in Georgia, the only nuclear power station currently under construction in the US, will have been running for a few years. It's likely to be the decade's only new large-scale nuclear power plant to come online, but that doesn’t mean the United States is abandoning fission energy. Instead, expect to see small nuclear reactors start popping up.

    Just a fraction of the size of a typical nuclear reactor, these advanced ones can be mass-produced and easily shipped anywhere in the country, no matter how remote. The first small reactors, developed by a company called NuScale Power, should start splitting atoms at Idaho National Laboratories in 2026. The Department of Energy is also working to get even smaller reactors, known as microreactors, churning out electrons at a federal facility by 2027.

    Nuclear energy gets a bad rap in some American environmental circles and it’s not hard to see why. The meltdown at Three Mile Island and the decades-long debate about storing nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain have made people skittish about the prospects of this carbon-free energy source, but the UN and many experts say fission energy will be key to hitting our climate goals. The world needs to halve its carbon emissions by 2030, and embracing the new generation of nuclear reactors may be key to making that happen. —Daniel Oberhaus ...

    Goodbye, Poverty!

    Predictions for the future often have a sci-fi bent: jet packs, flying cars, brain-computer hybrids. The United Nations is supposed to stick to more solid ground, but some of its Sustainable Development Goals for 2030 sound nearly as fantastical. In a mere 10 years, the UN plans to eradicate poverty “in all its forms everywhere.”

    No big deal. The UN already declared October 17 International Poverty Eradication Day. But elevating the lives of those subsisting on less than $1.25 a day will take a little more...

    CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,736

    What's the point, Wolfgang? CM

    The point is that scientific measuring will support the worldview found in Scripture .. which has been basically eradicated by the Copernican worldview which has done away with God and which claims the earth to be a convex sphere while the measurements show it to be a concave sphere.

    Biblical truth or science ... which do we want to believe ???

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,626
    edited January 3

    ...

    Post edited by C Mc on
  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,626
Sign In or Register to comment.