Pope Denies US President Holy Communion?

Here we go again! I and others would like to know:

  1. Does a man have the right to deny another to participate in an institution God has established--Holy Communion? Is this a religious overreach?
  2. What is communion? Is it the same as those with protestant beliefs?
  3. What does communion means or symbolizes?
  4. If the Pope denies one communion, today; could it be tomorrow, he can deny baptism and be extreme, heaven?
  5. To deny one communion, is this biblical?
  6. Do you get the sense that this denial puts pressure on Biden to conform to the RCC dogma against his will?
  7. Regardless of the RCC size, does this action or threat of denying one communion reeks with the stench of a cult?
  8. How could one in another land impose on the moral rights of an American leader?

Why wouldn't he give a clear answer? The church did the same thing with other matters: same-sex marriage, priest marrying, women as pastors, etc. in the end, Church dogmas won out.

Francis declined to give a “yes” or “no” answer, saying he didn’t know the U.S. case well enough. He repeated that abortion was “homicide,” and that Catholic priests cannot give the Eucharist to someone who is not in communion with the church. He cited the case of a Jew, or someone who isn’t baptized or who has fallen away from the church. -- https://apnews.com/article/pope-francis-joe-biden-communion-d58f0eec9ac1a1ff576e38fb85bf532f

Is Mr. Biden a backslidden Catholic? What's there to study? In view of church leaders in America, is the Church divided?

Bishop Michael F. Olson of the Diocese of Fort Worth, Texas, described Mr. Biden’s support for abortion rights, even as he portrays himself as a faithful Catholic, as “gravely scandalous,” and said it led to confusion about church teaching. -- Bishop Michael F. Olson of the Diocese of Fort Worth, Texas, described Mr. Biden’s support for abortion rights, even as he portrays himself as a faithful Catholic, as “gravely scandalous,” and said it led to confusion about church teaching. -- https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/15/world/europe/pope-francis-biden-abortion.html

Presently, at best, Pope Francis is in the middle of the road on this matter. A thing is not until it is ruled upon in the RCC. Therefore my questions above remain with the hope of finding decisive answers. CM

Comments

  • byGeorgebyGeorge Posts: 194

    Does a man have the right to deny another to participate in an institution God has established--Holy Communion?

    Yes. A pastor might rightly make such a decision based on 1 Cor 11 and other well-known passages.

    Is this a religious overreach?

    No. It is likely abused but can be rightly used.

    What is communion? Is it the same as those with protestant beliefs?

    Not sure what you are asking.

    What does communion means or symbolizes?

    Union with Christ and the Church though the blood and body of the Lord, with many layers of meaning, past, present, and future. (short answer)

    If the Pope denies one communion, today; could it be tomorrow, he can deny baptism and be extreme, heaven

    Probably.

    To deny one communion, is this biblical

    There may be times, yes.

    Do you get the sense that this denial puts pressure on Biden to conform to the RCC dogma against his will

    No. It could. So what if it does? Not in the case of Biden--the man is openly evil.

    Regardless of the RCC size, does this action or threat of denying one communion reeks with the stench of a cult

    No.

    How could one in another land impose on the moral rights of an American leader?

    Why not? Happens all the time in every country.

    The church did the same thing with other matters: same-sex marriage, priest marrying, women as pastors, etc. in the end, Church dogmas won out.

    And properly so, probably.

    Is Mr. Biden a backslidden Catholic?

    I have no reason to think Biden ever was remotely any kind of Christian.

    What's there to study?

    ???

    In view of church leaders in America, is the Church divided?

    There are many divisions.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,137

    @byGeorge,

    You seem to be passionate and emphatic above your answers to the above questions.

    I (CM) asked:

    Does a man have the right to deny another to participate in an institution God has established--Holy Communion? 

    You said:

    "Yes". "A pastor might rightly make such a decision based on 1 Cor 11 and other well-known passages".

    I  will give 1 Cor 11 a closer look in light of your response above. Meanwhile, if you can find the other passages that justify denying a person the right to participate in an institution God has established--Holy Communion, I would appreciate it. Thanks for your consideration. CM

  • byGeorgebyGeorge Posts: 194

    One should be enough, but you might see if 1 Corinthians 5:11 applies.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,137

    This is the same reference. I was more interested in the “other well-known passages". CM

    PS. Thanks, just the same.

  • byGeorgebyGeorge Posts: 194
    edited September 23

    I am sorry for my lack of clarity.

    1. One passage is enough. I gave you two.
    2. 1 Cor 11 and also 1 Cor 5:11 (two separate passages)
    3. Both are well-known passages that students frequently used in this discussion.


  • byGeorgebyGeorge Posts: 194

    Thanks for the "clarity". CM


    I figured you would get it.  

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,137

    On a light moment...

    Now, let's get to work and mine the texts on the subject matter -- a man denying a person the right to participate in an institution God has established--Holy Communion. What is your rationale thus far on the cited texts? CM

  • byGeorgebyGeorge Posts: 194

    I don't think church leadership typically denies a person the right to participate in an institution God has established--Holy Communion.

    That proposition you offer above probably rarely if ever happens. It also does not reflect the tenor of discussion.

    Or if you want to go with your premise above, I am fairly sure we all agree it isn't right and we can drop the matter.

    What happens is that a person may, by living in on-going unrepentant sin, place themselves out of communion. You might say they forfeit any "right" to communion. They may snag a piece of bread off the table or grab a cup of juice/wine, but they are eating and drinking damnation to themselves--a most Christian would try to persuade them not to do.

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