Does the OT speaks of a Bodily Resurrection?

C McC Mc Posts: 4,137

If it does, where in the OT where it speaks of Bodily Resurrection?

If it doesn't why not? What hope did the people of the OT had when it come to "life after death" (Resurrection)?

I am sure if does, the OT speaks of Bodily Resurrection the NT will affirm it? Where? CM

Comments

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 3,719

    If it does, where in the OT where it speaks of Bodily Resurrection?

    I know of no place in the OT or NT that speaks of a physical body resurrection

    If it doesn't why not?

    Because there is no such resurrection

    What hope did the people of the OT had when it come to "life after death" (Resurrection)?

    They had the hope of resurrection at the end of that OT age, when resurrection became a reality. Before that time, all believers who died awaited the resurrection in the grave

    I am sure if does, the OT speaks of Bodily Resurrection the NT will affirm it? Where? CM

    See above ... neither OT nor NT speak of a physical resurrection to eternal life.

    Yes, there were people raised back to earthly life in their physical bodies in OT and NT times (cp. Elijah and son of a woman, Lazarus from Bethany, etc.) but these were not a resurrection to eternal life.

  • @C Mc If it does, where in the OT where it speaks of Bodily Resurrection?

    Daniel 12:1-4 (LEB) “Now at that time, Michael, the great prince, will arise, the protector over the sons of your people, and it will be a time of distress that has not been since your people have been a nation until that time. And at that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written in the scroll. And many from those sleeping in the dusty ground will awake, some to everlasting life and some to disgrace and everlasting contempt. But the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse, and the ones providing justice for the many will be like the stars forever and ever. But you, Daniel, keep the words secret and seal the scroll until the time of the end; many will run back and forth and knowledge will increase.”

    @C Mc I am sure if does, the OT speaks of Bodily Resurrection the NT will affirm it? Where?

    Revelation 20:11-15 (LEB) And I saw a great white throne and the one who was seated on it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled, and a place was not found for them. And I saw the dead—the great and the small—standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and each one was judged according to their deeds. And Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

    Keep Smiling [:)]

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 3,719

    And where do these passages speak about / mention a physical bodily resurrection?

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,137
    edited July 3

    @Wolfgang said:

    I know of no place in the OT or NT that speaks of a physical body resurrection.

    CM said:

    If it doesn't, why not? 

    @Wolfgang said:

    Because there is no such resurrection

    CM says:

    The resurrection of the dead became a widely accepted Jewish teaching in the Second-Temple period. it was the central pillar of their belief.

    Wolfgang, why you don't accept the most familiar Old Testament passage that refers to resurrection is Daniel 12:2? It states clearly as Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus posted above:

    “Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake; Some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

    The thing that will wake up is the thing that is, when the person is dead, “sleeping” in the dust of the earth. Once again, Wolfgang, Isaiah 26:19 is very similar in its description of resurrection:

    “Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead.”

    The dead are said to now be in the dust, and from there, they shall rise. The bodies that are now dead will rise, and the earth will give up the dead that is in it. This was the consistent view of those Jews who believed in the resurrection. Throughout the Jewish literature on the resurrection up to and including the early to mid-first century AD, the resurrection was the resurrection of a dead body. In Sanhedrin 90b, Rabbi Gamaliel – Paul’s own teacher – explained how he knew that the dead would rise as follows:

    From the Torah: for it is written: ‘And the Lord said to Moses, Behold you shall sleep with your fathers; and this people will rise up’ [Deuteronomy 31:16]. From the Prophets: as it is written: ‘Your dead men shall live, together with my dead bodies shall they arise. Awake and sing, you that dwell in the dust; for your dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out its dead.’ [Isaiah 26:19]; from the Writings: as it is written, ‘And the roof of your mouth, like the best wine of my beloved, like the best wine, that goes down sweetly, causing the lips of those who are asleep to speak’ [Song of Songs 7:9].

    Gamaliel thought the body would come back to life. The reference to Isaiah is fairly obvious in meaning, showing that Gamaliel thought of the reference to dead bodies rising up as a depiction of resurrection, and in the unusual reference to the Song of Songs, we see that Gamaliel believed that the lips of the dead would one day open and speak, giving us a clear insight into his view of the resurrection: The bodies that are now dead will one day be alive. Paul turned his back on much of what he had acquired in Pharisaism, but he held firmly to a bodily life after death. Paul publicly proclaimed that his belief in the resurrection is something he held in common with the Pharisees (Acts 23:6-10).

    See also passages from the Jewish literature current in the first century affirm this view of the resurrection. In a well-known story in 2 Maccabees chapter 7 (written in the late second century BC), a mother and her seven sons are tortured and killed because they would not break the law of God. The words of the third son reveal the way that the writer (as presumably his community) thought about the world to come:

    When it was demanded, he quickly put out his tongue and courageously stretched forth his hands [to be cut off], and said nobly, “I got these from heaven, and because of his laws I disdain them, and from him, I hope to get them back again.

    Or in 2 Baruch chapter 50, likely written towards the close of the first century AD:

    For the earth will certainly then restore the dead it now receives so as to preserve them: it will make no changes in their form, but as it has received them, so it will restore them, and as I delivered them to it, so also will it raise them. For those who are then alive must be shown that the dead have come to life again and that those who had departed have returned.

    Belief in the resurrection was not universal in first-century Judaism but it did exist. Wolfgang, you may want to reconsider your position on this matter. It's alright. While studying the Bible, sometimes we have to do this when greater understanding comes to light. CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 3,719

    @C Mc Wolfgang, why you don't accept the most familiar Old Testament passage that refers to resurrection is Daniel 12:2?

    I DO ACCEPT the Dan 12:2 !!

    I don't see where it teaches a bodily (in a physical visible body) resurrection. It seems that most read "resurrection" or "resurrected from the dead" and automatically read into the text and interpret "bodily (in a physical visible body) resurrection".

  • byGeorgebyGeorge Posts: 194
    edited October 11

    I also see that some here do not believe in a bodily resurrection. I am beginning to see why Jesus might not matter that much to such a person. God might not either.

    Do such people believe in ghosts?

    Do they have hope of a future life?

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 3,719

    I also see that some here do not believe in a bodily resurrection. I am beginning to see why Jesus might not matter that much to such a person. God might not either.

    You should leave your assumptions about what Jesus or God might think and do to your own imagination in a drawer in your closet ...

    If you believe in a "bodily" resurrection, set forth your biblical text based reasons and have a proper exchange with others concerning those texts.

    Do such people believe in ghosts?

    I don't. Do you? In what basis do you believe such, if you do?

    Do they have hope of a future life?

    I do ... being changed and received up to live eternally in God's presence.

  • byGeorgebyGeorge Posts: 194
    edited October 11

    >>Do they have hope of a future life?

    >>Do they have hope of a future life?

    I do ... being changed and received up to live eternally in God's presence.

    You just pinned the tail on the donkey. A person can exist in a body or out of a body. God also can live in a body or out a body. You explained the incarnation, who Jesus is.

    Other thoughts: I do believe in ghosts. Some call them spirits. The Bible describes spirits and a Holy Ghost. Apparently, you too believe: you describe ghosts as a disembodied existence in God's presence.

    We can get to the glorious Scriptures discussing our future bodies, but not yet.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 3,719

    Other thoughts: I do believe in ghosts. Some call them spirits. The Bible describes spirits and a Holy Ghost. Apparently, you too believe: you describe ghosts as a disembodied existence in God's presence.

    "loony tunes" ? not worth the time to reply ...

  • byGeorgebyGeorge Posts: 194
    edited October 11

    not worth the time to reply ...

    If you are unable or unprepared to reply, say so, I would respect that.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,137

    @Wolfgang,

    Have you considered the Word before throwing in the towel? 

    Isa. 26:19 -- Asserts the bodily resurrection of the dead.

    RESURRECTION in the OT:

    • Job 19:25–26
    • Dan. 12:2 --
      • And many from those sleeping ⌊in the dusty ground⌋e will awake, some to ⌊everlasting life⌋f and some to disgrace and ⌊everlasting contempt⌋.g

    RESURRECTION in the NT:

    • 1 Cor. 15:51–55
    • 1 Thess. 4:13–18


    There were three ways of thinking about the future life.

    1. At one extreme were the Sadducees, who did not believe in any sort of future life.
    2. Then there were those who believed in disembodied existence without a body.
    3. Then there were the Pharisees, many of whom believed in the immortality of the soul, a prevalent view in many of the cultures existing alongside Judaism, but they also affirmed the resurrection of the dead.

    Those who held the third view had no trouble recognizing that those who held the second view – that the spirit lived on without a body forever – did not believe in resurrection. In fact, there is no record of anyone at the time referring to the second view as resurrection, a term that was always used to refer to the view of the Pharisees that the graves would be emptied and the bodies of the dead would live again.

    If the early Christian movement did not believe that Jesus had been bodily raised back to life so that the body that died was now alive again, but they still claimed that he had been resurrected, then one obvious question would have been put to them: What exactly was resurrected? His body that died? No, that body is still dead, in the tomb. His new, spiritual, ethereal body then? No, because that body had never been dead to begin with. It was newly created when his old body died. His immaterial mind or soul that once lived in the old body and now lives in the new body – assuming of course that they believed in any such thing? No, for that never died in the first place! It just moved from one body to the next. In this scenario, there is nothing that was dead and is now alive. To tell the first-century Jew that Jesus had been raised from the dead but that they could still see his body if they went to the tomb would have made the resurrection look like a ludicrous and implausible ruse, one that no Jew could have taken seriously, and would have made a laughing stock of the new (and soon to be ended) Christian movement.

    Truth found truth shared. CM

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,137

    To further the conversation, one must be aware that the evil spirits impersonating the dead teach many doctrines contrary to the Bible:

    1. First they gain confidence by teaching some things that are consistent with Scripture. 
    2. And then, they teach error:
      1. Christ is placed on a level with the spirits.
      2. His unique Deity is denied.
      3. His special saving work for man is depreciated.
      4. The Christianity of the Bible is destroyed by so-called Christian spiritualism (possible new thread).

    The Apostle Paul's prediction of the last great deceptions of Satan should lead everyone to search the Scriptures very carefully. The final great deception will be with

    • "all power, signs, lying wonders, and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved" (2 Thess. 2: 9, 10).

    Note carefully, brethren, people who refuse to receive Christ's truth will be permitted to accept:

    • "a powerful delusion, leading them to believe what is false, so that all who have not believed the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned" (2 Thess. 2: 11, 12). 

    Let's remain opened to the leading of the Holy Spirit, God, the one sure Teacher and Guide. CM

Sign In or Register to comment.