Trump Accountability Project

I would like to hear from Biden supporters like @Bill_Coley what they think about the Trump Accountability Project being touted by communist AOC?

Reasonable, Dangerous, or doesn't matter to you?

Comments

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,146

    @reformed posted:

    I would like to hear from Biden supporters like @Bill_Coley what they think about the Trump Accountability Project being touted by communist AOC?

    Reasonable, Dangerous, or doesn't matter to you?

    Your post resulted in my looking into this nascent effort, so thanks; I had not paid any substantive attention to it.

    I am a BIG believer in accountability, but not the kind of accountability envisioned in the Trump Accountability Project (TAP) apparently rooted in Rep. Ocasio-Cortez' recent comments. I believe in accountability for one's actions and statements, but not for one's associations. The TAP appears to seek a database of all Trump campaign employees, administration political appointees, members of the Republican National Committee, and those who bundled money for his election bids, in an effort to affect their reputations and job prospects going forward. In general, that's a VERY bad idea.

    People have a right to raise money and work for the campaigns and political office holders of their choice. They do NOT have the right to break the law in those efforts, and should be held accountable for any law-breaking they committed in service to the president, BUT absent evidence of illegal actions, they should NOT be included in a database such as the one the TAP seems to envision.

    The TAP strikes me as a draconian, ill-advised, and just plain wrong overreaction to the Trump administration's rampant corruption. Mr. Trump and his minions have damaged our institutions, run roughshod over basic ethical norms, and created one hell of a mess for the Biden administration to clean up. But Mr. Trump and the others should be held accountable ONLY for their actions, not their associations (for example, not for the fact that they worked for Mr. Trump's campaigns or in his administration).

    In the campaign, Joe Biden pledged to give his Justice Department total independence when it came to deciding whether to prosecute Trump administration members/officials/employees for crimes. I agree with Mr. Biden's stance. If the Justice Department concludes that crimes were committed by Trump administration employees, it should prosecute the alleged offenders, WHOEVER they are (and that includes President Trump). But it should NOT cooperate or align itself with the efforts of the Trump Accountability Project.



    p.s. Please note that I have responded directly to your question. No evasion. No distraction. No name-calling. No single sentence dismissive replies. No part of your question not quoted or addressed. With little or no hope of success, based on past experience, I invite you to employ similar directness in your replies to my questions.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,933
    edited November 9

    No evidence of Trump administration crimes so I don't know why Biden would even bring that up. Yet he wants to unify? What a load of crap from a crap politician.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,146

    @reformed posted:

    No evidence of Trump administration crimes so I don't know why Biden would even bring that up. Yet he wants to unify? What a load of crap from a crap politician.

    Mr. Biden didn't "bring it up." He was asked the question in a Democratic primary debate HERE, and during an ABC Townhall HERE (only the 1:15 of this video is from the townhall; the rest is partisan political commentary, but the opening 75 seconds accurately conveys Mr. Biden's response). He responded to a similar, though not identical, question on an MSNBC broadcast last May.

    Mr. Biden's answer has been consistent: The Attorney General is the nation's attorney not the president's, and should have free and full reign to decide, based on the law, whom to prosecute and not prosecute. The Justice Department is the nation's justice advocate, not the president's personal law firm. The Department should have full and free reign, based on the law, to pursue justice.

    As president, he will not seek to hinder or direct the Justice Department's prosecutorial work. You call that "a load of crap." I call it justice. We disagree.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,146

    @reformed posted:

    Actually what I called a load of crap was his call for unity.

    The way I read your previous post, what you called "a load of crap" was the fact that Mr. Biden says "he wants to unify" yet he brought up "Trump administration crimes" (for which you don't believe there is any evidence).

    The point of my response was to inform you of Mr. Biden's position on the prospect of his administration's prosecution of any such crimes, and to point out that he didn't bring up the matter; he was asked about it on multiple occasions... and gave the same basic response each time.

    Do you agree with Mr. Biden's view that it's not up to the president to decide whom the Justice Department prosecutes, that the Justice Department isn't the president's personal law firm, but rather the people's? Do you agree with Mr. Biden's "hands-off" approach when it comes to the prosecutorial decisions and other activities and actions of the Justice Department? (NOTE: Here's your chance to answer my questions directly!)

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,933

    On it's face I would agree with that. The justice department should prosecute all illegal activity no matter where they may lie.

    And you are also correct, I have seen no evidence of Trump wrong doing in office.

    Also, Yes, Biden wanting to unify is political crap and everyone knows it.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,146

    @reformed posted:

    Also, Yes, Biden wanting to unify is political crap and everyone knows it.


    In his victory speech after Secretary Clinton conceded in 2016, Donald Trump said, among other things:

    • "Now it’s time for America to bind the wounds of division; have to get together. To all Republicans and Democrats and independents across this nation, I say it is time for us to come together as one united people."
    • "It’s time. I pledge to every citizen of our land that I will be president for all Americans, and this is so important to me."
    • "For those who have chosen not to support me in the past, of which there were a few people... I’m reaching out to you for your guidance and your help so that we can work together and unify our great country."

    Given the way Mr. Trump has governed over the last four years, was all of that also "political crap"?

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,933

    No. I believe he legitimately wanted that, but Democrats had no interest and instead went on witch hunts and smear campaigns for four years making it impossible to work with them.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,146
    edited November 10

    @reformed posted:

    No. I believe he legitimately wanted that, but Democrats had no interest and instead went on witch hunts and smear campaigns for four years making it impossible to work with them.

    I had a sense that this would be your response. The problem with your response is that you can't point to ANY specific action(s) the president took over the last four years whose stated, or at least obvious, intention was to bring our divided nation together "as one united people." You say it was impossible to do due to "witch hunts and smear campaigns." But President-elect Trump didn't promise to unite just politicians, with whom I grant he may well have had difficulty finding common ground. Mr. Trump promised to unite the nation. Name ANY action he took whose intention, let alone, outcome, was to bring a divided nation together.

    • It sure wasn't the Muslim ban that he announced a week into his term.
    • It sure wasn't any of the times he celebrated those who supported him, the ones he called "my people," and referred to those who didn't support him as "them."
    • It sure wasn't in many of the ways he characterized cities or states led by Democratic mayors or governors - for example, when he called Baltimore as "a disgusting, rat and rodent-infested mess."
    • It wasn't any of the times he declared how successfully our nation was handling the COVID-19 pandemic "if you don't count the blue states."
    • It hasn't been his pattern of making presidential visits to states which voted for him at a rate FAR higher than to states that voted for Hillary Clinton.
    • It hasn't been his multiple and consistently sharp condemnations of Black Lives Matter, Antifa, and other progressive protest movements, while speaking negatively about white nationalist groups only when forced to by days of withering criticism during his campaign for re-election.

    You tell me - this is a serious question - what specific actions has Donald Trump taken during his term whose obvious and, perhaps, stated intention was to bring us together, to bridge the partisan divide in constructive, healing ways? How has the president openly and directly conducted warfare against the forces of division and hatred in our nation? NOT AMONG POLITICIANS!!! Among Americans writ large.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,824
    edited November 10

    In his victory speech after Secretary Clinton conceded in 2016, Donald Trump said, among other things:

    ". To all Republicans and Democrats and independents across this nation, I say ."

    And which political party started from the very moment of that speech to stir up anything divisive and hateful against Trump in order to have division in the USA aiming clearly already then at spewing out hate against Trump in order to prepare for what they think they now achieved??

    The answer is clear and in plain sight .... it was the frogs in the Washington swamp because they managed to keep their swamp from being drained, or put another way, Trump was too nice and did not take the necessary steps to drain the swamp.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,933

    There was no Muslim ban. This is false.

    Again Democrats don't do themselves any favors, they spew hatred towards Trump and call Republicans deplorable.

    The Blue States are the problem with the pandemic. Even yesterday that idiot Cuomo said it was bad news that a vaccine would be out during Trump's term. What an idiot. Send some more Covid infections to the nursing homes governor....

    Black Lives Matter is a terrorist organization. So is Antifa. And sorry, riots are not protests. Not legal ones anyway.

    You are showing your true colors Bill.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,146

    @reformed posted:

    There was no Muslim ban. This is false.

    Again Democrats don't do themselves any favors, they spew hatred towards Trump and call Republicans deplorable.

    The Blue States are the problem with the pandemic. Even yesterday that idiot Cuomo said it was bad news that a vaccine would be out during Trump's term. What an idiot. Send some more Covid infections to the nursing homes governor....

    Black Lives Matter is a terrorist organization. So is Antifa. And sorry, riots are not protests. Not legal ones anyway.

    You and I disagree about the accuracy of the examples I cited in my previous post, but your protests about them miss the point of that post completely. Those examples merely introduced the two questions to which I asked your response. As is the case with most every question I ever ask you, I must now ask them again:

    What specific actions has Donald Trump taken during his term whose obvious and, perhaps, stated intention was to bring us together, to bridge the partisan divide in constructive, healing ways? How has the president openly and directly conducted warfare against the forces of division and hatred in our nation? NOT AMONG POLITICIANS!!! Among Americans writ large.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,933

    Lowering taxes for one.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,933

    And as far as conducting war against forces of division? Going after BLM, Antifa, etc. Those ARE the forces of division in this country. Terrorist thugs is what they are.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,146

    @reformed posted:

    Lowering taxes for one.

    The tax cut passed in 2017 was not promoted as a strike against the forces of division and hatred in our country, and in fact provided no strike against those forces. The tax cut raised the national debt, but it did nothing to lower the temperature of relations between competing and opposing "camps" in the country (and it's NOT a criticism of the tax cut to say it didn't confront the division in our country; that's not what tax policies are designed to do).


    And as far as conducting war against forces of division? Going after BLM, Antifa, etc. Those ARE the forces of division in this country. Terrorist thugs is what they are.

    This claim is profoundly absurd. If BLM and the Antifa movement went away today, we'd STILL be deeply divided as a nation because BLM and Antifa aren't significant contributors to our division. They are each a lightning rod for those ARE significant contributors, but they themselves are not.

    The truth is you can't cite a speech, an executive order, a presidential proclamation, or any consequential legislation in which the president told the nation we're divided and the division must end. At EVERY turn over the last four years Mr. Trump has fueled and furthered the division, not fought it. Had he actually fought the division, you would have offered an example decidedly more on-point than a three year-old tax cut bill.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,933

    Again, we are divided because of the deep irrational rabid hatred of America by the Democratic Party.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,146

    @reformed posted:

    Again, we are divided because of the deep irrational rabid hatred of America by the Democratic Party.

    This post was your FOURTH opportunity to cite a speech, an executive order, a presidential proclamation, or any consequential legislation in which President Trump told the nation we're divided and the division must end. Instead, you used it to attack "the other side" as people who have a "deep, irrational, rabid hatred of America." In so doing, you showcased the very division you claim the president has fought against.

    Case closed.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,933

    No I'm just not playing your political game.

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