"Wokeness" and "Identity Politics" ... far worse than "Corona" ?

Recently I came across the term "woke" / "wokeness" and even with the various information in which I read the term, I still have no real idea about what the term is supposed to mean. I did get the impression that while praised by some authors as a community or cultural or educational achievement and result of some kind of human development, there were plenty of grave concerns and rejection by others who appeared (at least to me) to have a more sound and common sense thinking and life philosophy.

It seems as if the "woke" movement? idealogy? is sort of a cousin to "Identity Politics", which has become (at least in my perspective) the root of many evils over here in Germany over the course of more recent decades. Society seems to have been and to continue to be robbed of standards for a prosperous and stable community life. People are almost not willing anymore to say what they really think because they fear denunciation, loss of job or career, defamation of being "Nazi", etc ....

Seems to me that such "woke" and "identity politics" are far more dangerous and deadly "viruses" for a community than the currently hyped up "Corona" epidemic that has taken over almost all the headlines.

Comments

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,949

    @Wolfgang posted:

    Recently I came across the term "woke" / "wokeness" and even with the various information in which I read the term, I still have no real idea about what the term is supposed to mean. I did get the impression that while praised by some authors as a community or cultural or educational achievement and result of some kind of human development, there were plenty of grave concerns and rejection by others who appeared (at least to me) to have a more sound and common sense thinking and life philosophy.

    I'm confident that the term "woke" as used in the information you reviewed, Wolfgang, means socially aware, particularly when it comes to issues of racism and social injustice. I hope you'll share how for the "more sound and common sense thinking and life philosophy" writers you consulted awareness of such issues raise "plenty of grave concerns and rejection."


    Seems to me that such "woke" and "identity politics" are far more dangerous and deadly "viruses" for a community than the currently hyped up "Corona" epidemic that has taken over almost all the headlines.

    Worldwide, the Corona virus has infected more than 110,000 people and killed more than 4,000. In my view, those numbers reflect a virus "far more dangerous and deadly" than ANY level of awareness of issues of racism and social injustice.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,541

    "People are almost not willing anymore to say what they really think because they fear denunciation, loss of job or career, defamation of being "Nazi", etc ....

    Ha, ha, don't look too far. This reality seems to exist right here in CD. CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,413
    edited March 10

    Worldwide, the Corona virus has infected more than 110,000 people and killed more than 4,000. In my view, those numbers reflect a virus "far more dangerous and deadly" than ANY level of awareness of issues of racism and social injustice.

    To get some perspective ... what about the following data regarding the "regular flu" (not Corona) ...

    While everyone is in a panic about the coronavirus (officially renamed COVID-19 by the World Health Organization), there's an even deadlier virus many people are forgetting about: the flu.

    Flu season is hitting its stride right now in the US. So far, the CDC has estimated (based on weekly influenza surveillance data) that at least 12,000 people have died from influenza between Oct. 1, 2019 through Feb. 1, 2020, and the number of deaths may be as high as 30,000.

    Source: https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/how-many-people-die-of-the-flu-every-year


  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,413

    I'm confident that the term "woke" as used in the information you reviewed, Wolfgang, means socially aware, particularly when it comes to issues of racism and social injustice. I hope you'll share how for the "more sound and common sense thinking and life philosophy" writers you consulted awareness of such issues raise "plenty of grave concerns and rejection."

    The various people to whom I was referring were folks with whom I had raised the topic in conversation and who (as I would say) displayed more common sense thinking etc. as some topics of racism and current society problems we experience and see in Germany came up in the context of understanding such terms like "woke" (by the way, there seems no German translation for this term, but rather the term is just used as is in German) or "Identity Politics" (for which we do have an equivalent translation "Identitätspolitik")

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,949

    @Wolfgang posted:

    The various people to whom I was referring were folks with whom I had raised the topic in conversation and who (as I would say) displayed more common sense thinking etc. as some topics of racism and current society problems we experience and see in Germany came up in the context of understanding such terms like "woke" (by the way, there seems no German translation for this term, but rather the term is just used as is in German) or "Identity Politics" (for which we do have an equivalent translation "Identitätspolitik")

    I appreciate your comment, Wolfgang, but its result is simply to restate the point about which I asked for clarification; it offers no help to my request: For the people with whom you raised "woke" as a topic, in what way(s) did awareness of that term and associated issues produce "plenty of grave concerns and rejection"? And what were some of those grave concerns and rejections?


    To get some perspective ... what about the following data regarding the "regular flu" (not Corona) ...

    While everyone is in a panic about the coronavirus (officially renamed COVID-19 by the World Health Organization), there's an even deadlier virus many people are forgetting about: the flu.

    Flu season is hitting its stride right now in the US. So far, the CDC has estimated (based on weekly influenza surveillance data) that at least 12,000 people have died from influenza between Oct. 1, 2019 through Feb. 1, 2020, and the number of deaths may be as high as 30,000.

    The most significant difference between Covid-19 and the flu is that humans have developed some levels of immunity to the flu over the millennia it's been around. Covid-19 is what they call a "novel" virus in that it's new - there is no immunity... and for the next year or so, no vaccine. To date, I don't think we know the potential of the virus on the global community, which in my view is reason for concern - NOT panic! - but concern.

  • MitchellMitchell Posts: 554

    @Wolfgang posted: To get some perspective ... what about the following data regarding the "regular flu" (not Corona) ...

    Thanks that some nice perspective, however I am sure what relevance the above has to do with the suggestion that "Wokeness" and "Identity Politics" is some how worse than "Corona" ? While I personally have not heard of Wokeness and do not know much about identity politics I think the evidence show that COVID-19 is far worse as it has and it continues to kill people.

    How many deaths, hospitalizations, people being quarantine has the so called 'wokeness' and 'identity politics' caused and is it at all compareable to what COVID-19 has already done since the end of December 2019 when it was first identified in China or January 30th when WHO first issued a warning for it?

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,541

    Insightful, Mitch. You're "spot on". The whole thread is "majoring in minors". To deflect and distract is a page out of Trump lovers' playbook. COVID-19 is deadly and demands the world's citizenry undivided attention. CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,413
    edited March 11

    How many deaths, hospitalizations, people being quarantine has the so called 'wokeness' and 'identity politics' caused and is it at all compareable to what COVID-19 has already done since the end of December 2019 when it was first identified in China or January 30th when WHO first issued a warning for it?

    I would suggest not to fall into the panic trap and think that the Corona Virus kills many or even most of the people who have caught that "bug" ... I know of people who have already recovered from the problems caused by Corona. Yes, there have been 3 deaths ascribed to the Corona virus, but - please note - all three concerned very senior people (ages 89, 78, 84) with "previous conditions"!! Nobody knows, but in years past thousands of older folks with previous conditions have died from infections from a flu, or some other source.

    My comparison "of far worse than" in my subject line question is not about how many people have been killed ... more about how many people are stringly influenced ion their minds and thinking concerning the matters. There are MILLIONS of people here in Germany who think as "programmed" by identity politics ... they don't dare to say what they think concerning matters involving "identity" topics (such as "gender", "migrants", etc) because they are bound by examples of harassment, defamation, etc. ... a far worse influence on society than a virus infection which lasts in by far most persons' lives for a relatively short period of time and then they can go about their normal walk of life.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,949


    @Wolfgang posted:

    I would suggest not to fall into the panic trap and think that the Corona Virus kills many or even most of the people who have caught that "bug" ... I know of people who have already recovered from the problems caused by Corona. Yes, there have been 3 deaths ascribed to the Corona virus, but - please note - all three concerned very senior people (ages 89, 78, 84) with "previous conditions"!! Nobody knows, but in years past thousands of older folks with previous conditions have died from infections from a flu, or some other source.

    To my knowledge, your "3 deaths ascribed to the Corona virus" assertion is flat wrong. According to the latest numbers provided by the World Health organization, there are currently more than 121,000 confirmed cases and more than 4,300 confirmed deaths attributed to the virus worldwide. Please provide a link to information that supports your claim of three deaths.


    My comparison "of far worse than" in my subject line question is not about how many people have been killed ... more about how many people are stringly influenced ion their minds and thinking concerning the matters. There are MILLIONS of people here in Germany who think as "programmed" by identity politics ... they don't dare to say what they think concerning matters involving "identity" topics (such as "gender", "migrants", etc) because they are bound by examples of harassment, defamation, etc. ... a far worse influence on society than a virus infection which lasts in by far most persons' lives for a relatively short period of time and then they can go about their normal walk of life.

    As to the subject of this thread, please note that people who assert themselves to be "woke" are NOT claiming a political identity; they're claiming social awareness. To be "woke" is to be aware of issues regarding racism and social injustice, to be aware that racism and social injustice are real things and affect people and society. To say "I am aware" bears no consequential resemblance to saying "I am a member of this or that gender/ethnicity/socio-economic/etc group."

    When I say I'm aware that smoking causes cancer, I'm not claiming an identity; I'm saying I know something. Yes, my awareness about smoking distinguishes me from people who aren't aware that smoking causes cancer, but my awareness is not a political identity.

    I suppose there's an argument to be made that decades-long rises of demographic identities COULD have greater overall impact than months-long global pandemics that kill tens of thousands of people, but those who claim to be "woke" are NOT a demographic identity; they're people who are aware of the real world around them.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,413

    To my knowledge, your "3 deaths ascribed to the Corona virus" assertion is flat wrong. According to the latest numbers provided by the World Health organization, there are currently more than 121,000 confirmed cases and more than 4,300 confirmed deaths attributed to the virus worldwide. Please provide a link to information that supports your claim of three deaths.

    There are currently 3 deaths reported IN GERMANY .... sorry, I am getting old and apparently had that in mind but not in my fingers on the keyboard.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,949

    @Wolfgang posted:

    There are currently 3 deaths reported IN GERMANY .... sorry, I am getting old and apparently had that in mind but not in my fingers on the keyboard.

    Three deaths in Germany specifically makes MUCH more sense. Thanks for the edit, Wolfgang.

    Your response prompted me to research Germany's response to the virus, which to my reading has been first-rate on many levels. It sounds like you have a healthcare infrastructure flexible and nimble enough to respond vigorously and proactively to situations such as this. Kudos to your nation.


    p.s. Can we in the U.S. borrow your healthcare infrastructure for a couple of months?! 😀

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,541

    70% of Germany maybe infected with the "Corona virus". Straight-talk from a leader to her people. America is fast becoming a "byword and a "hiss". CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,413
    edited March 12

    70% of Germany maybe infected with the "Corona virus". Straight-talk from a leader to her people. America is fast becoming a "byword and a "hiss".

    Straight NONSENSE talk from a person displaying either her ignorance or worse. 70% of a population of slightly above 80 million makes for 56 million (!!!) people infected, and at the currently published rate of a death rate of 3,4% it would result in 1,90 million (!!!) deaths. Hallo?? Anyone still thinking when they hear or read such politician's statements?

    And the "sleep sheep" propaganda media "reporters" are continuing display their stupidity by trumpeting the total nonsense of their "famously no-nonsense chancellor" out into the world.

    Hmn .... there were people reported being infected in January or early February who apparently now have lived through the prescribed 2 week quarantine and treatment. They obviously were far more in number than those who have died. Anyone read or heard about them? are they all still "deadly sick" and by now are hopeless cases? Anyone noticed how the mass propaganda and politicians doesn't seem to be concerned with that side of the matter but instead fires up their hysterics and steps to supposedly "save people from getting infected" by banning travel, gatherings, etc. ?

    What is really going on?? When the flu is out and about, far more people are affected ... and yet no hysterical politics are seen as we see now? People are advised to properly take care of themselves and regarding hygienic precautions etc and they are free to decide whether they want to go out their house and visit a party, a concert, a football game, etc.

    PS: ANyone have any idea why I seem to be unable to turn of this annoying italic font (which came with posting the quote from CM?

    Post edited by Wolfgang on
  • MitchellMitchell Posts: 554


    @Wolfgang posted:

    I would suggest not to fall into the panic trap and think that the Corona Virus kills many

    1) Wolfgang if you noticed my example wasn't focused on death but rather on comparing the effects of the virus to the ideologies you mentioned. The new coronavirus has in a very short time done a lot.

    (a) Public Schools across Japan in closed because of the virus! Did "Wokeness" and "Identity Politics" do the same? If so please provide examples.

    (b) Hundreds of people have been quarantine what comparable have Wokeness and identity Politics done?

    (c) (Travel restrictions implemented) ex I and others from the country I reside in are now banned from entering other countries because of the virus. What comparable have wokeness and identity Politics done?

    (d) Stock-markets, business, and other institutions have been effected financially what has wokeness and identity Politics done comparably?

    (e) Yes, deaths have happened, and of course, deaths may happen because of the normal flu and so on, But that was never the question! The question was What has wokeness and identity Politics done comparably?

    (f) Funny but true example: Toliet paper, tissue, face masks, soap, and medical alcohol are all in sort supply or very hard to find in Japan. Have the ideoligies you mentioned done something comparable?

    (2) Just because only 3 people have died in your country because of the virus does not mean that the virus has somehow not affected others around the world. If you lived in China, Korea, or Italy I doubt that you would be able to claim that the virus has only affected 3 people nor that you would be able to tell people to not worry about the virus but instead to worry about the ideologies you mentioned.

    Anyway, does it seem that the facts point to the New Corona have actual effects that can be seen, perceived, and felt while the ideologies you mentioned do not seem to be causing the same quality of realized effect in the world.


    Grace and Peace

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,413

    Anyway, does it seem that the facts point to the New Corona have actual effects that can be seen, perceived, and felt while the ideologies you mentioned do not seem to be causing the same quality of realized effect in the world.

    The effects of corona virus are certainly perceivable ... but, please note, the closing of schools, cancelling of events, etc. are consequences by "precaution" thinking and political decisions ... panic and hysterics (=> "woke" influenced mentality?) are the cause for such steps. Why have the same steps not been taken for years when flu season hits and far more people are affected by those type of virus infections spreading and cause deaths??

    "Precaution" thinking can easily be used to spread hysterics and panic ... and later no one can "blame" someone for having caused perhaps severe damage when nothing happened and even claims that the "precautions" were successful.

    Some years ago another "dangerous" virus pandemie was supposedly spreading over Germany, and the government spend millions paid to "big pharma" for large stocks of vaccine and by various means just short of "law" tried to get the people to all be vaccinated. The population at large refused to go and get the shots ... and nothing happened (there was nothing terrible about that "ah so dangerous virus", except that the state health offices were now sitting on millions of vaccines and finally had to destroy them because a few years later that had become useless as their validation time had run out.

  • MitchellMitchell Posts: 554

    @Wolfgang posted: Why have the same steps not been taken for years when flu season hits and far more people are affected by those type of virus infections spreading and cause deaths??


    Sure, why not? As, both the flu (old corona) and the New Corona virus are dangerous and can be deadly. However, just because the flu can be dangerous does not just why your claim that: "Wokeness" and "Identity Politics" ... far worse than "Corona"


    I am still waiting to see evidence that 'wokeness and idenity politics are some how far worse.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,413

    I am still waiting to see evidence that 'wokeness and idenity politics are some how far worse.

    Seems like the matter is within personal perception and experience of what areas of life and society are in view in each case.

  • MitchellMitchell Posts: 554

    @Wolfgang posted: Seems like the matter is within personal perception and experience of what areas of life and society are in view in each case.

    Hmm, I am not so sure. It appears that in the case of the Flu and COVID-19 one can point to clear evidence that it has and continues to have numerous effects on global society over and above what wokeness and identity politics are doing. Although if there were data or evidence on both sides that could be empirically weighed and compared I think the issue of which on is having more of an affect on society could be resolved.

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