Russia-Gate 2.0 ... Rep. Schiff and his "secret intelligence" ?

WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,413
edited February 22 in News & Current Events

Elections are only in their pre-election status, and once again "chief Schiff" of the intelligence committee is using the NYT to spread some "intelligence" that Russia is interfering in the upcoming USA presidential elections to promote Trump to a 2nd term in office.

Do really intelligent US Americans not realize how stupid and actually "hilariously funny" the notion of a Russian interference in US presidential elections is? What has Trump done to favor Russia? Oh, he put sanctions on Russia, moved his armed forces via NATO maneuvers right to the Russian border, stepped away from treaties, etc .... all reasons for Russia to manipulate elections to have him continue with such?

On the other hand, dear US Americans, there is and has been many times over interference in US elections from many sources !! Different interest groups interfere with large and very large amounts of money .. and they even announce it in public media! Of course, the Israel Lobby is the most powerful and notorious "influencer" (compare my recent post and what Israel PM Netanjahu declared about that topic.

Candidates for election have had their campaigns financed by Wall Street and banks, by the military/industrial security complex, and other big industries ...

Will the US Americans continue in their slumber of being duped ? Folks, it is very obvious that even if Russia tried to influence or manipulate the US presidential election, its efforts would be basically insignificant and of no consequence to the outcome when compared to the numerous powerful groups and forces who are actually exerting their efforts and are interfering in elections.

Comments

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,777

    NYT also said Russia is trying to help Sanders as well. Where is the outrage over that?

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,949

    @Wolfgang posted:

    Elections are only in their pre-election status, and once again "chief Schiff" of the intelligence committee is using the NYT to spread some "intelligence" that Russia is interfering in the upcoming USA presidential elections to promote Trump to a 2nd term in office.

    1. In the U.S. this is what's euphemistically called the election "season," which means the parties' presidential nominating processes have commenced. In the last fifteen years or so, it's become the case that it's ALWAYS election season in the U.S. even the day after elections!
    2. I'm not aware that the NY Times piece cited Rep. Schiff as the source of its reporting about the intelligence community's briefing last week. In fact, as I read the article, its sources were "five people familiar with the matter." Where in the Times' article do you find support for your claim about Rep. Schiff?
    3. The Times ALSO reported Russian efforts in support of Bernie Sanders' campaign, in my view, because a Sanders candidacy would present President Trump with the best chance of winning re-election.


    Do really intelligent US Americans not realize how stupid and actually "hilariously funny" the notion of a Russian interference in US presidential elections is? What has Trump done to favor Russia? Oh, he put sanctions on Russia, moved his armed forces via NATO maneuvers right to the Russian border, stepped away from treaties, etc .... all reasons for Russia to manipulate elections to have him continue with such?

    Your post includes a collection of false and/or seriously misleading assertions of fact. I don't have the time to debunk them all with sources and links, but here's a start:

    • Congress forced the president's hand vis a vis sanctions against Russia when it passed them with veto-proof margins. EVEN THEN the Trump administration delayed their implementation. HERE'S A SUMMARY of the administration's delays.
    • The president's decision last August to terminate U.S. participation in the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces treaty with Russia basically green-lighted Russian and American efforts to expand unchecked their respective nuclear arsenals. If Russia was violating the treaty as the Trump administration alleged (by the way, do you agree that Russia was violating their treaty obligations?) then the best way to hold them accountable was through the treaty itself, not through a release from the treaty's obligations.
    • The NATO troop movements have been multi-national in make-up, not only American, and are basically defensive in nature, spurred principally by Russian aggression in Ukraine (increased NATO activity began in 2014, well before Mr Trump took office).

    But the best indicator of Mr Trump's affinity for Mr Putin is the honest answer to this question: When was the last time Mr Trump publicly criticized Vladimir Putin? He's bluntly criticized and name-called lots of American political office-holders, and issued dismissive critiques of the leaders of some of America's allies, but when did he last openly criticize Mr. Putin? Please quote and link to the most severe criticism you can find that Mr Trump has offered specifically about Mr. Putin, then we'll compare that criticism to what the American president has said about other Americans, about the prime minister of Canada, and others.

    Remember Mr. Trump's infamous words about the possibility of Russian interference in the 2016 election. offered in Helsinki, Finland, in July 2018 while standing on a platform just a few feet from Mr Putin?

    "With that being said, all I can do is ask the question. My people came to me — Dan Coats came to me and some others — they said they think it’s Russia. I have President Putin; he just said it’s not Russia.

    "I will say this: I don’t see any reason why it would be, but I really do want to see the server. But I have — I have confidence in both parties. I really believe that this will probably go on for a while, but I don’t think it can go on without finding out what happened to the server. What happened to the servers of the Pakistani gentleman that worked on the DNC? Where are those servers? They’re missing. Where are they? What happened to Hillary Clinton’s emails? Thirty-three thousand emails gone — just gone. I think, in Russia, they wouldn’t be gone so easily. I think it’s a disgrace that we can’t get Hillary Clinton’s 33,000 emails.

    "So I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. And what he did is an incredible offer; he offered to have the people working on the case come and work with their investigators with respect to the 12 people. I think that’s an incredible offer."


    When asked yesterday about the Times' report that his campaign had been briefed on Russian efforts to help his candidacy, Sen Sanders confirmed the reporting, called Mr Putin a "thug" and an "autocrat," and very pointedly told Russia to stay out of American elections. Mr Trump's reaction to the news that Russians were again working to aid HIS electoral chances? He fired the Director of National Intelligence who gave him the news, and called the reports "another misinformation campaign... being launched by Democrats in Congress."... Yeah, Mr Trump's been REAL hard on Mr Putin and Russia.


    On the other hand, dear US Americans, there is and has been many times over interference in US elections from many sources !! Different interest groups interfere with large and very large amounts of money .. and they even announce it in public media! Of course, the Israel Lobby is the most powerful and notorious "influencer" (compare my recent post and what Israel PM Netanjahu declared about that topic.

    Candidates for election have had their campaigns financed by Wall Street and banks, by the military/industrial security complex, and other big industries ...

    Will the US Americans continue in their slumber of being duped ? Folks, it is very obvious that even if Russia tried to influence or manipulate the US presidential election, its efforts would be basically insignificant and of no consequence to the outcome when compared to the numerous powerful groups and forces who are actually exerting their efforts and are interfering in elections.

    As I read your argument, you contend that because suspect #1 didn't actually murder anyone, but only attempted to murder someone, we shouldn't be concerned about suspect #1's conduct, especially when so many other people actually have murdered people.

    REGARDLESS of what other nations, corporations, individuals, or advocacy groups have or haven't done to influence American elections, what the Russians did in our 2016 election was incontestably wrong and should be condemned by every person who cares about free and fair elections. If inappropriate electoral influence does indeed concern you, Wolfgang, then you should condemn the Russian actions in 2016, regardless of their results. The fact that, at least to my recollection, you have never done so is telling.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,413

    REGARDLESS of what other nations, corporations, individuals, or advocacy groups have or haven't done to influence American elections, what the Russians did in our 2016 election was incontestably wrong and should be condemned by every person who cares about free and fair elections. If inappropriate electoral influence does indeed concern you, Wolfgang, then you should condemn the Russian actions in 2016, regardless of their results. The fact that, at least to my recollection, you have never done so is telling.

    Since there were none, there's nothing to condemn .... what about condemning the campaign influencers and dfinanciers behind H. Clinton's candidacy? Since there were plenty, there would be some to condemn ... actually, there are things related to that woman that were violating USA security policies and thus exposed the USA to foreign nations' intelligence. No need to ask for news sources ... the cases have been publicized plenty of places and media, but maybe not by the USA Clinton/Democrat/Israel controlled mainstream media.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,949

    @Wolfgang posted:

    Since there were none, there's nothing to condemn ....

    When it comes to issues of gender, you argue that if a person has reason to know the "truth" about their gender but refuses to acknowledge it, "there is no 'being mistaken' with them, there is straight forward 'an insane mind' or 'reprobate mind' as Scripture calls it." On countless occasions in these threads I believe I have presented to you the truth about Russian interference in our 2016 elections, yet you obviously have refused to acknowledge it. Using YOUR logic, in this circumstance am I justified to consider you to be of "an insane mind," not just mistaken? (I'm not asking whether my claim of your insanity would be CORRECT!! I'm only asking whether, by your logic when it comes to what you consider to be the truth about gender, I have a legitimate basis to consider you to be of "an insane mind" since you reject what I consider to be the truth about Russian election interference.)

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,413

    Some types of mistaken are of a level of an insanity, other types of mistaken are not. In addition, there are situations where claims of "mistaken" are made when in fact there is no "mistaken".

  • C McC Mc Posts: 3,541

    Wolfgang,

    In other words:

    "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent" (Acts 17:30).

    Instruct before you rebuke. God is long suffering. CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,413

    @Bill_Coley posted

    REGARDLESS of what other nations, corporations, individuals, or advocacy groups have or haven't done to influence American elections, what the Russians did in our 2016 election was incontestably wrong and should be condemned by every person who cares about free and fair elections.

    What did Russia actually do in the 2016 USA presidential election that was incontestably wrong and should be condemned? Anything whic we haven't seen same or worse done by the USA in Russia and other elections ?

    For 2020, it seems that the USA mainstream media propaganda is of the opinion that Russia now is doing things to support the Trump campaign and also already in primaries is supporting the Sanders campaign ? Russia really has it figured out ... they influence both sides of the elections (😀 🤣 😎 ) and at the end we might have Wladimir I. as president of the USSRoA 😉

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