In Case You Are Interested: Study in John's Gospel

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  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,732

    Sounds interesting.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,332

    From the introduction to the first audio on John 1:1-18:

    The Gospel of John shows the majesty of the deity of Christ. This is found no better than in the opening prologue of the Gospel.

    Unfortunately, the exposition follows 3rd-4th century AD council dogmas rather than the Biblical text.

    Jesus is the Word, the Word is God. That Word, Jesus, is the Light of the world. However, the Word was rejected by most unless they were granted to Him by the Father.

    Well, nowhere does John 1:1-18 say or teach that Jesus is the Word.

    When an architect has "words and drawings" of a wood and stone house in his mind, one could say later on after the house of wood and stone has been built in accordance with those plans that the "word and drawings BECAME wood and stone". But nobody would rightfully claim that wood and stone are the words and drawings. One could also say in an emphasized manner using a figure of speech that this "word and drawings" ARE the architect ... similar to when I sasy, I went to a concert last night and the orchestra played Mozart and Beethoven ... excuse me, did they really play the persons Mozart and Beethoven? of course not ... they played Mozart and Beethoven because the music they played had been composed by Mozart and Beethoven.

    While people generally have no problem with this in connection with such matters as mentioned in my illustrations above, for some strange reason most Christians somehow misread and misinterpret the same manner of speech when they read John 1:1-18.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,332

    From the introduction to the second audio on John 1:19-34

    Here, we see the Word as the perfect lamb of God, without sin and spot, that would be sacrificed on our behalf. The imagery and foreshadow of what Christ’s purpose was is unmistakable. Christ came to be a sacrifice for our sins. He would be a sacrifice for all people, not just the Jews.

    It is NOT "the Word" which is the perfect lamb of God; rather it is "the man Jesus", who is the perfect lamb of God which would be the sin sacrifice.

    Just the truth mentioned here that Jesus is portrayed as the lamb of God to be sacrificed shows plainly and clearly that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Jesus to have been Deity (God), because Deity (God) cannot be a sacrifice.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,732

    I got done listening to all of them. I never realized that John's Gospel was the only place where Jesus is called the Lamb of God. Fascinating.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,332

    From the introduction to the third part of the study on John 2:1-12

    David continues his series through the Gospel of John. This week, we come to the first of the sign miracles in John’s Gospel, turning the water into wine.

    Indeed, this is the record about the fist of the signs and miracles recorded in the gospel of John. What was the purpose for recording these miracles and deeds of Jesus? John provides the answer toward the end of his gospel in John 20:30-31 ("30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.")

    Please note carefully what John stated in his gospel as compared with what now follows in the comment introducing David Taylor's teaching on this sign / miracle.

    This miracle shows Jesus’ power over all of creation. In an instant, Jesus creates something out of nothing just as God created the whole universe out of nothing.

    For starters, the record in John 2 plainly states that Jesus DID NOT create something out of nothing ... rather water was turned into wine. The signs and miracles in John were NOT recorded that we should believe that Jesus is the Creator God or that Jesus creates things out of nothing.

    Why is it that teachers apparently do NOT read what Scripture actually says, but instead preach obvious error flat out contradicting what the very passage in the gospel text says ?? Is denominational peer pressure really that strong? I guess, a preacher would quickly lose his job in just about every church, if he actually valued Scripture over church dogma??

  • dct112685dct112685 Posts: 1,114

    @Wolfgang allow me to respond to some of your concerns.

    Your most recent concern is about the purpose of the signs. In your argument you say what was the purpose of recording these miracles? To show Jesus is the Christ. You are correct. But notice, I am not speaking about why it was recorded. I am speaking about what the miracle actually demonstrated. It did, in fact, demonstrate Christ's power over creation. It also was something from nothing. In order to get wine you need a fruit that has juice to ferment. That was not present. So the juice necessary was created out of nothing. It was not present. Now, you can argue it was created out of the water, but the fact is that there were things present that were not there before. Either way, it showed Christ's power over creation.


    As to your argument against my sermons in chapter one, yes, Jesus is God. The chapter clearly states that. Paul states it in Colossians. You and I used to go back and forth, with @Bill_Coley included, about the Deity of Christ and both of you ignore the plain reading of Scripture to deny His Deity. That is your right, but you are deadly wrong.

  • dct112685dct112685 Posts: 1,114

    @reformed it is interesting that only John's Gospel says the specific phrase "Lamb of God." But we should also note Paul refers to him as a lamb, and John mentions lamb again in Revelation. But yes, the specific phrase, "Lamb of God" is only found in John's Gospel.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,925

    @dct112685 posted:

    As to your argument against my sermons in chapter one, yes, Jesus is God. The chapter clearly states that. Paul states it in Colossians. You and I used to go back and forth, with @Bill_Coley included, about the Deity of Christ and both of you ignore the plain reading of Scripture to deny His Deity. That is your right, but you are deadly wrong.

    Welcome back, David. It's been a while.

    You and I disagree as to how "deadly" my and Wolfgang's error is with regard to Jesus' divinity, of course because we also disagree as to whether we're wrong. So it goes. But in your post you employ an interesting phrase which I hope you'll unpack for me in the three texts I'm about to cite. I'm not asking for lengthy tomes - just simple, declarative takes that in your view communicate the "plain reading" of these texts as to the question whether Jesus was God:

    • Acts 4.10, in which Peter says Jesus is one whom God raised, language which sure seems to make a clear distinction between God - the one who raised Jesus - and Jesus - the one God raised.
    • Romans 5.12-17, in which Paul twice refers to Jesus as a "man": 1) as the "one man" whose grace, as well as "the grace of God," have "abounded for many;" 2) as the "one man" through whom "those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life." And in each of those instances of his use of the the word "man" to describe Jesus, Paul uses the SAME Greek word as he uses to refer to the "one man" Adam, through whom Paul contends "sin came into the world."
    • and 1 Timothy 2.5, in which the writer calls Jesus "the one man" who is the "mediator between (the one) God and men," and also uses the same Greek word for "man" in reference to Jesus that Paul uses to refer to Adam.


  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,332

    @dct112685 posted

    But notice, I am not speaking about why it was recorded. I am speaking about what the miracle actually demonstrated. It did, in fact, demonstrate Christ's power over creation.

    well the miracles obviously were not recorded that we would believe that Jesus is God, were they? Why do you then want to give the impression that John's gospel portrays Jesus as God??

    As for "power over creation", did you notice in your Bible reading that others (such as prophets of old, as well as Jesus' apostles) performed miracles that went beyond the natural and which were done by God's power, yet such did not make these persons to be God.

    It also was something from nothing. In order to get wine you need a fruit that has juice to ferment. That was not present. So the juice necessary was created out of nothing. It was not present. Now, you can argue it was created out of the water, but the fact is that there were things present that were not there before. Either way, it showed Christ's power over creation.

    See above ... others worked miracles by the same power of God that had been bestowed upon them.

    Do you not realize that Jesus did not have such power in and of himself, but rather only had such power after God had anointed him with this holy spirit power (cp. Acts 10:38; John 1:32-34;  and parallel records about the event that happened at Jordan only a few days prior to the wedding at Canaa where Jesus worked his first miracle) ???

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 2,332

    @dct112685 posted

    As to your argument against my sermons in chapter one, yes, Jesus is God. The chapter clearly states that.

    IF that were the case, God would have inspired John, the writer of the gospel, to flat out contradict what the rest of not only his gospel but all other Scripture states ... where did John go wrong ? the man Jesus of Nazareth is God? Jesus is the only begotten Son of God? Or did John actually not make mistakes because he only stated one these options, and the other idea ("Jesus is God") is a later twisted interpretation of the text ?

    Paul states it in Colossians.

    Sorry, but Paul nowhere states that Jesus is God ... he rather plainly states that Jesus is A MAN, A MALE HUMAN BEING ! Now, unless humans can be God, these statements of Paul about THE MAN Christ jesus actually state by simple implication that Jesus is not God .... the exact opposite of what you claim Paul stated

    You and I used to go back and forth, with @Bill_Coley included, about the Deity of Christ and both of you ignore the plain reading of Scripture to deny His Deity. That is your right, but you are deadly wrong.

    No, David, the one lacking in plain reading of Scripture is you, not Bill or I. You appear to be reading the Scriptures through "Trinity Theology commentary glasses". Now, you may not realize that doing so you put more authority on theology doctrine and those who are proposing such than you put authority on the Scriptures.

    Please note, just because someone claims that Scripture says such and such, does not mean that it is true. And that such people hold high level educational titles from famous universities or seminaries, does not make it better.

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