Walk in Christ vs walk by the Law ?

Recently, someone in a Bible study group mentioned (once again) that Christians are to keep the OT Law with its laws concerning annual feasts, weekly sabbaths, dietary commandments, etc because only those laws about animal sacrifices have been "finished".

In regards to such claims, a passage from Col 2 came to mind, which - in my understanding - tells a different story concerning believers in Christ (Christians) and their walk in Christ.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Col 2:6–17). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.)

I would say that the requirements of the Mosaic/OT Law are not what Christians in the body of Christ are under, but rather we are to walk in the liberty from the Law which Christ has made available (cp. also Rom 3:19; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 4:21ff; 5:18)

Comments

  • Dave_LDave_L Posts: 2,324

    @Wolfgang said:
    Recently, someone in a Bible study group mentioned (once again) that Christians are to keep the OT Law with its laws concerning annual feasts, weekly sabbaths, dietary commandments, etc because only those laws about animal sacrifices have been "finished".

    In regards to such claims, a passage from Col 2 came to mind, which - in my understanding - tells a different story concerning believers in Christ (Christians) and their walk in Christ.

    As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
    (The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Col 2:6–17). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.)

    I would say that the requirements of the Mosaic/OT Law are not what Christians in the body of Christ are under, but rather we are to walk in the liberty from the Law which Christ has made available (cp. also Rom 3:19; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 4:21ff; 5:18)

    The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant replaced by the New Covenant. Under which the Two Great Commandments of Love for God and People form the basis for NT ethics. The Ten are useful for commentary and instruction but not binding.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,989

    Wolfgang/Dave,

    CD affords us to share our opinions on religious, biblical and spiritual matters. There seems to be a trend to relegate Jesus to just being human, by saying, He is not God. Now, the Ten Commandments appear to be under attack. There seems to be antichrist ("against" or "in place of" and anti-Ten-commandments. Please help me to better understand the factual and biblical teachings:

    1. When were the Ten Commandments written?
    2. Where were they written?
    3. Who wrote the Ten Commandments?
    4. To whom were the Ten Commandments written, for all men or just Israelites (Hebrews)?
    5. When, where, and why do you think the Ten Commandments are not relevant today?
    6. Why do you feel that the Ten Commandments are ill-relevant?
    7. Do you not see that the Ten Commandments give regards to God (1-4) and to man (6-10)?
    8. When was it the "Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant"? When was the Old Covenant replaced by the New Covenant, by whom and for what reason(s)?
    9. What were the purposes for the Mosaic Laws?
    10. Do you find the Mosaic Laws and the Ten Commandments of equal value?
    11. Do you really believe God wrote The Ten Commandments twice only to be used for "commentary and instruction but not binding"?
    12. Given that the Ten Commandments are not the means to salvation, what is so bad or offensive for a person living by these principles?
    13. Do you believe Jesus died to do away with the Ten Commandments?
    14. Do the Ten Commandments have any value at all for today's Christians?
    15. "The handwriting of ordinances" and "the Ten Commandments", are they the same?

    To often many things are said about the Ten Commandments are not biblical. Please provide accurate biblical answers to my questions. Please avoid "knee jerk" or flippant answers? I'm not limiting my answers to the two of you, but I need substantive responses. CM

  • edited February 9

    @Wolfgang said:
    Recently, someone in a Bible study group mentioned (once again) that Christians are to keep the OT Law with its laws concerning annual feasts, weekly sabbaths, dietary commandments, etc because only those laws about animal sacrifices have been "finished".

    Acts 15 includes a letter to Gentile Believers in Acts 15:23-29 with these requirements (later expanded in New Testament epistles):

    • You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols,
    • from blood,
    • from the meat of strangled animals,
    • and from sexual immorality

    Seven Noachide Laws expand list a bit (based on Genesis 2:16 and Genesis 9:4-6)

    • No idolatry
    • No blasphemy of the Name of God
    • No murder
    • No fornication
    • No stealing
    • No eating the flesh of live animals
    • Courts of Justice established

    Torah has 613 Mitzvot (commandments) with 283 that are applicable today (since 3rd Temple does not yet exist in Jerusalem). Logos Bible software has "Commandments of the Law" interactive that includes Torah verse(s) for each Mitzvah (Command).

    Keep Smiling :smile:

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,688

    @C_M_ said:
    Now, the Ten Commandments appear to be under attack.

    Who is attacking the Ten Commandments? or attacking the OT Law in a broader sense?
    Why are you claiming "an attack"?

    Are the scripture passages mentioned in my original post (cp. Col 2:6-17, and also Rom 3:19; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 4:21ff; 5:18) attacks on the Law? Do those scriptures teach that those who believe in Christ and walk according to the spirit are still under the OT Law?

    There seems to be antichrist ("against" or "in place of" and anti-Ten-commandments.

    What is ANTI CHRIST in believing and declaring what Scripture says concerning Christ (that he is the only begotten Son of God, that he is the Messiah whom God had promised would come to fulfill the work of redemption and salvation, etc?
    What is ANTI Ten commandments in believing and declaring what the above mentioned scripture passages from the NT scriptures very plainly say?

    Please help me to better understand the factual and biblical teachings:

    The best help I can offer is what I just wrote above in this post ... hopefully the scriptures to which I referred are plain and clear enough to show that there is nothing "anti" anything in Scripture in my posts.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,989

    Wolfgang,
    Lumping the two posts together may have sent that message. If there is no attack, let's get to work in answering the question on the Ten Commandments. In during so, you may answer your own questions to me. At any rate, my proposed questions cover your questions and then some. Happy studying! CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,688

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus said:
    Acts 15 includes a letter to Gentile Believers in Acts 15:23-29 with these requirements (later expanded in New Testament epistles):

    • You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols,
    • from blood,
    • from the meat of strangled animals,
    • and from sexual immorality

    I think it to be good to have a look at what the record in the relevant passage in Acts 15 actually says:
    Acts 15:19-21 (NASB95)
    19 “Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
    20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.
    21 “For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
    These were recommendations for believers from among the Gentiles who had been troubled by some of Jewish background who had gone to those fellowships and were trying to force on them to keep the OT Law.

    The recommendations were made by James, the apostle presiding over the gathering of the assembled elders at Jerusalem It is obvious from James' words that these were just recommendations not to be regarded of equal authority as or actually replacing anything from the OT Law.

    James' words in Acts 15:21 are interesting ... and I admit, I am not certain on what James meant to convey with this statement about the Mosaic Law being read in the synagogues every Sabbath ... I do not think that he meant that the Gentile believers should now start reading the OT Law every time they got together as a local congregation.

    Seven Noachide Laws expand list a bit (based on Genesis 2:16 and Genesis 9:4-6)

    • No idolatry
    • No blasphemy of the Name of God
    • No murder
    • No fornication
    • No stealing
    • No eating the flesh of live animals
    • Courts of Justice established

    Torah has 613 Mitzvot (commandments) with 283 that are applicable today (since 3rd Temple does not yet exist in Jerusalem). Logos Bible software has "Commandments of the Law" interactive that includes Torah verse(s) for each Mitzvah (Command).

    What do you mean with 283 laws (of 613 total) "are applicable today"? Are you saying that Christians are still under SOME of the OT Law? Why would the NT scriptures which address this point all just have "not under THE LAW" rather than "not under SOME OF THE LAW"?

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,688

    @C_M_ said:
    1. When were the Ten Commandments written?

    At the time of the exodus of the children of Israel from Egypt

    1. Where were they written?

    At first on a table of stone ... then in the book of Exodus which reports about the initial event.

    1. Who wrote the Ten Commandments?

    God Himself did on the two tables of stone

    1. To whom were the Ten Commandments written, for all men or just Israelites (Hebrews)?

    They were given the children of Israel and were part of the covenant God made with the children of Israel at Mt. Sinai.

    1. When, where, and why do you think the Ten Commandments are not relevant today?

    The Old covenant Law is said in NT Scriptures to not be what NT believers in Christ are under ... cp the various references I already mentioned.

    1. Why do you feel that the Ten Commandments are ill-relevant?

    Did I say anything like it? According to Rom 15:4, the things written aforetime are profitable for believers' learning.

    1. Do you not see that the Ten Commandments give regards to God (1-4) and to man (6-10)?

    Indeed, in these Israel was given laws relative to their relationship with God and with each other.

    1. When was it the "Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant"? When was the Old Covenant replaced by the New Covenant, by whom and for what reason(s)?

    The ten commandments were part of the old covenant, that covenant God made with the children of Israel at Mt. Sinai. They are not the only commandments that are part of the old covenant.

    1. What were the purposes for the Mosaic Laws?

    They were commandments given to the children of Israel ... and are said to have been a schoolmaster until the Messiah, Christ.

    1. Do you find the Mosaic Laws and the Ten Commandments of equal value?

    The ten commandments are part of the Mosaic Law. The different laws in the Mosaic Law (such as the ten commandments, the instructions concerning the tabernacle, etc address different aspects in the life of the children of Israel ... all are God's commandments.

    1. Do you really believe God wrote The Ten Commandments twice only to be used for "commentary and instruction but not binding"?

    Did I say something like that? How do you come up with such ideas?
    The Mosaic Law was binding to them that are under the Law .. do you understand? ????
    The Mosaic Law is NOT binding to them who are NOT under the Law ... get it???

    The USA laws are binding for those living under the USA laws ... they are not binding for those who are not living under the jurisdiction of the USA laws. SImple enough??

    1. Given that the Ten Commandments are not the means to salvation, what is so bad or offensive for a person living by these principles?

    Why are the ten commandments then treated as if they were means to salvation by those who try and put Christians today under the OT Law?? Do you not realize that one cannot just select some laws from the OT Law to keep and disregard others ? You want to keep one law, you are bound to keep all.

    1. Do you believe Jesus died to do away with the Ten Commandments?

    According to Jesus himself, he shed his blood in connection with ratifying the new covenant. Or do you honestly mean Christ's sacrifice was essentially for nothing and we today are still under the Law (thereby contradicting those scriptures I mentioned before)?

    1. Do the Ten Commandments have any value at all for today's Christians?

    Rom 15:4 ... we can learn tremendous things from them.

    1. "The handwriting of ordinances" and "the Ten Commandments", are they the same?

    I would say that the "handwriting of ordinances" is an expression which refers to the OT Law as a whole, thus including the ten commandments.

    To often many things are said about the Ten Commandments are not biblical. Please provide accurate biblical answers to my questions.

    I would think my above replies provide accurate biblical answers.

  • @Wolfgang said:

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus said:
    Torah has 613 Mitzvot (commandments) with 283 that are applicable today (since 3rd Temple does not yet exist in Jerusalem). Logos Bible software has "Commandments of the Law" interactive that includes Torah verse(s) for each Mitzvah (Command).

    What do you mean with 283 laws (of 613 total) "are applicable today"? Are you saying that Christians are still under SOME of the OT Law? Why would the NT scriptures which address this point all just have "not under THE LAW" rather than "not under SOME OF THE LAW"?

    Moreover, we know that whatever the Torah says, it says to those living within the framework of the Torah, in order that every mouth may be stopped and the whole world be shown to deserve God’s adverse judgment. For in his sight no one alive will be considered righteous on the ground of legalistic observance of Torah commands, because what Torah really does is show people how sinful they are.

    David H. Stern, Complete Jewish Bible: An English Version of the Tanakh (Old Testament) and B’rit Hadashah (New Testament), 1st ed. (Clarksville, MD: Jewish New Testament Publications, 1998), Ro 3:19–20.

    Legalistic observance of Torah commands (Mitzvot) lacks Love <3

    So imitate God, as his dear children; and live a life of love, just as also the Messiah loved us, indeed, on our behalf gave himself up as an offering, as a slaughtered sacrifice to God with a pleasing fragrance. Among you there should not even be mentioned sexual immorality, or any kind of impurity, or greed; these are utterly inappropriate for God’s holy people. Also out of place are obscenity and stupid talk or coarse language; instead, you should be giving thanks. For of this you can be sure: every sexually immoral, impure or greedy person—that is, every idol-worshipper—has no share in the Kingdom of the Messiah and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty talk; for it is because of these things that God’s judgment is coming on those who disobey him. So don’t become partners with them!

    David H. Stern, Complete Jewish Bible: An English Version of the Tanakh (Old Testament) and B’rit Hadashah (New Testament), 1st ed. (Clarksville, MD: Jewish New Testament Publications, 1998), Eph 5:1–7.

    Imitating God provides Christian incentive to prayerfully consider the applicable 283 Mitzvot (Commands) for Love expressions <3 For example, Deuteronomy 6:5 & Leviticus 19:18 are quoted by Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40, Mark 12:28-31, and Luke 10:25-28

    Keep Smiling :smile:

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