Meaning of the term "God (Deity)" in the Trinity dogma vs in the Bible
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As an addition to recent discussions about "Is Jesus Deity?" (and similar exchanges prior), I would like to ask those who adhere to the Trinity dogma for a definition or meaning of what the term "God (Deity)" actually means to them or in the dogma in general. In other words,
Is "God (Deity)" a term that defines a quality?
Is "God (Deity)" an individual single acting living Being?
Is "God (Deity)" a group or category of several individuals?
Is "God (Deity)" a sort of "family name" ?
Id "God (Deity)" something different altogether?
Once it is clear what is meant with "God (Deity)" it would be important to compare and see whether such definition is how the Bible uses the term ...
Comments
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To help facilitate dialogue and give an example of how one might define the English term Deity I post the following definitions:
de•i•ty \ˈdē-ə-tē, ˈdā-\ noun
plural -ties [Middle English deitee, from Anglo-French deité, from Late Latin deitat-, deitas, from Latin deus god; akin to Old English Tīw, god of war, Latin divus god, dies day, Greek dios heavenly, Sanskrit deva heavenly, god] 14th century
1 a: the rank or essential nature of a god: DIVINITY b capitalized: GOD 1, SUPREME BEING
2: a god or goddess 〈the deities of ancient Greece〉
3: one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerfulMerriam-Webster, Inc. Merriam-Webster’s collegiate dictionary. 2003 : n. pag. Print.
deity /ˈdeɪɪti, ˈdiːɪ-/
■ noun (plural deities)
1 a god or goddess (especially in a polytheistic religion).
▶ (the Deity) the creator and supreme being.
2 divine status, quality, or nature.
—ORIGIN Middle English: from Old French deite, from ecclesiastical Latin deitas, from deus ‘god’Soanes, Catherine, and Angus Stevenson, eds. Concise Oxford English dictionary 2004 : n. pag. Print.
Etymology
From Middle French deité, from Latin deitās.Pronunciation
(Received Pronunciation) IPA(key): /ˈdiː.ɪ.ti/, /ˈdeɪ.ɪ.ti/
(General American) IPA(key): /ˈdi.ə.ti/, [ˈdi.ə.ɾi]
Hyphenation: de‧i‧tyNoun
deity (plural deities)The state of being a god; divine characteristics, godhead. [from 14th c.] quotations ▼
A divine being; a god or goddess. [from 14th c.]Synonyms
See also Thesaurus:godHyponyms
household deity
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deity -
@Wolfgang said:
As an addition to recent discussions about "Is Jesus Deity?" (and similar exchanges prior), I would like to ask those who adhere to the Trinity dogma for a definition or meaning of what the term "God (Deity)" actually means to them or in the dogma in general. In other words,Is "God (Deity)" a term that defines a quality?
Is "God (Deity)" an individual single acting living Being?
Is "God (Deity)" a group or category of several individuals?
Is "God (Deity)" a sort of "family name" ?
Id "God (Deity)" something different altogether?Once it is clear what is meant with "God (Deity)" it would be important to compare and see whether such definition is how the Bible uses the term ...
I would say yes to all of your questions. But our level of understanding involving each point might differ.
To some, the laws of physics might determine how we answer each question. To another, spiritual concepts and freedom from the laws of physics might determine how we answer.
Physically, the questions pose "either - or" choices. But spiritually they do not.
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@Dave_L said:
@Wolfgang said:
As an addition to recent discussions about "Is Jesus Deity?" (and similar exchanges prior), I would like to ask those who adhere to the Trinity dogma for a definition or meaning of what the term "God (Deity)" actually means to them or in the dogma in general. In other words,Is "God (Deity)" a term that defines a quality?
Is "God (Deity)" an individual single acting living Being?
Is "God (Deity)" a group or category of several individuals?
Is "God (Deity)" a sort of "family name" ?
Id "God (Deity)" something different altogether?Once it is clear what is meant with "God (Deity)" it would be important to compare and see whether such definition is how the Bible uses the term ...
I would say yes to all of your questions. ....
even when one excludes another ? such as
Is "God (Deity)" an individual single acting living Being?
Is "God (Deity)" a group or category of several individuals?A single individual is never a group of several individuals, nor is a group of several individuals ever one single individual.
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@Wolfgang said:
@Dave_L said:
@Wolfgang said:
As an addition to recent discussions about "Is Jesus Deity?" (and similar exchanges prior), I would like to ask those who adhere to the Trinity dogma for a definition or meaning of what the term "God (Deity)" actually means to them or in the dogma in general. In other words,Is "God (Deity)" a term that defines a quality?
Is "God (Deity)" an individual single acting living Being?
Is "God (Deity)" a group or category of several individuals?
Is "God (Deity)" a sort of "family name" ?
Id "God (Deity)" something different altogether?Once it is clear what is meant with "God (Deity)" it would be important to compare and see whether such definition is how the Bible uses the term ...
I would say yes to all of your questions. ....
even when one excludes another ? such as
Is "God (Deity)" an individual single acting living Being?
Is "God (Deity)" a group or category of several individuals?A single individual is never a group of several individuals, nor is a group of several individuals ever one single individual.
You are looking at it physically and limiting yourself to only one point of view.
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@Dave_L said:
even when one excludes another ? such as
Is "God (Deity)" an individual single acting living Being?
Is "God (Deity)" a group or category of several individuals?A single individual is never a group of several individuals, nor is a group of several individuals ever one single individual.
You are looking at it physically and limiting yourself to only one point of view.
I am looking at things reasonably and logically ... and it does not matter from how many points of view you want to look at it, the truth remains the same:
A single individual is never a group of several individuals, nor is a group of several individuals ever one single individual. -
You are thinking from only one position, the physical. But God IS Spirit....
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@Dave_L said:
You are thinking from only one position, the physical. But God IS Spirit....You must not really have read my earlier reply ... I'll leave you with what I already posted there.
Coming back to my original post: What does the term "God (Deity)" mean ... as used in Trinity dogma vs as used in the Bible?
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You will never understand the Spiritual things of God when you limit yourself to thinking only in physical material ways.
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With Dave, all things are possible.
OK, sticking my neck out here:
Is "God (Deity)" a term that defines a quality?
Yes. Sort of. That is There are characteristics or attributes that exist which belong to God alone.
Is "God (Deity)" an individual single acting living Being?
Yes
Is "God (Deity)" a group or category of several individuals?
No. God is one God. God exists as Father, Spirit and Son (We have thoroughly defined what these are and how they relate elsewhere--so I beg that we do not rehash that). -- All one God. Some say three persons, but I think that confuses the issue. I say One person manifest in various ways--probably more to facilitate human comprehension than due to any division of personality.
Is "God (Deity)" a sort of "family name" ?
No. God is one God. There is something called Godhead. I do not think that equates to how we think of "Family."
Id "God (Deity)" something different altogether?
Yes. God is vastly greater than the sum of our descriptions.
I am willing to revise these. I lay no claims to writing with Lawyer-like skills.
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@GaoLu said:
Is "God (Deity)" a term that defines a quality?
Yes. Sort of. That is There are characteristics or attributes that exist which belong to God alone.
So the term "God (Deity)" refers actually to a "quality" (rather than - for example - an acting living Being) ?
Is "God (Deity)" an individual single acting living Being?
Yes
OK .... as such, I would think that the term "God (Deity)" could not mean a quality, because a quality does not act and is not a living Being.
Is "God (Deity)" a group or category of several individuals?
No. God is one God. God exists as Father, Spirit and Son (We have thoroughly defined what these are and how they relate elsewhere--so I beg that we do not rehash that). -- All one God. Some say three persons, but I think that confuses the issue. I say One person manifest in various ways--probably more to facilitate human comprehension than due to any division of personality.
This to me confuses the rather simple and plain previous point ... What you are actually saying with "God" (a single individual living Being) "exists as Father, Spirit and Son" is that the Father is His own Son, the Son is his own Father, etc. Furthermore, if Father, Spirit and Son act individually, it rules out that they are only one individual Being, but rather would be three individuals, three living Beings, acting independently and individually. In addition, if "God" is one person manifest in various ways", why would that not include "Creator, Almighty, etc." and thus expand a "Tri-nity" to much more than that?
Is "God (Deity)" a sort of "family name" ?
No. God is one God. There is something called Godhead. I do not think that equates to how we think of "Family."
Some perhaps think of "God" as a family name, at least that way they have 3 persons who then are only one "God"-family.
Id "God (Deity)" something different altogether?
Yes. God is vastly greater than the sum of our descriptions.
The Scriptures use the term "God" many many times to refer to that one supreme living acting Being. My questions are about understanding the meaning of the word "God (Deity)", not about understanding everything about that Supreme Being Who is called in Scripture "God".
It appears to me that the Trinity dogma uses the term "God (Deity)" in some highly unusual manner and with a sense and meaning not found in Scripture. Thus my questions for clarification ....
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@GaoLu said:
With Dave, all things are possible.OK, sticking my neck out here:
Is "God (Deity)" a term that defines a quality?
Yes. Sort of. That is There are characteristics or attributes that exist which belong to God alone.
Is "God (Deity)" an individual single acting living Being?
Yes
Is "God (Deity)" a group or category of several individuals?
No. God is one God. God exists as Father, Spirit and Son (We have thoroughly defined what these are and how they relate elsewhere--so I beg that we do not rehash that). -- All one God. Some say three persons, but I think that confuses the issue. I say One person manifest in various ways--probably more to facilitate human comprehension than due to any division of personality.
Is "God (Deity)" a sort of "family name" ?
No. God is one God. There is something called Godhead. I do not think that equates to how we think of "Family."
Id "God (Deity)" something different altogether?
Yes. God is vastly greater than the sum of our descriptions.
I am willing to revise these. I lay no claims to writing with Lawyer-like skills.
You are making the same mistake antitrinitarians make. Trying to visualize God in physical ways. But God is Spirit.
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@Dave_L said:
You are making the same mistake antitrinitarians make. Trying to visualize God in physical ways. But God is Spirit.And which mistake do Trinitarians make when propagating contradictory unreasonable and illogical statements in which they present their assumptions as if they were fact?
Seems to me that Gao_Lu's statements were far less of a mistake than your earlier ones ...What is the mistake in going by what God has revealed in Scripture concerning Himself, and concerning His only begotten Son, and His power holy spirit??
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@Wolfgang said:
@Dave_L said:
You are making the same mistake antitrinitarians make. Trying to visualize God in physical ways. But God is Spirit.And which mistake do Trinitarians make when propagating contradictory unreasonable and illogical statements in which they present their assumptions as if they were fact?
Seems to me that Gao_Lu's statements were far less of a mistake than your earlier ones ...What is the mistake in going by what God has revealed in Scripture concerning Himself, and concerning His only begotten Son, and His power holy spirit??
God is Spirit and you cannot use math or logic relating only to material concepts to understand him.
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But I could use speculation, assumption. fantasy ... rather than reason and logic?
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Actually, IF "God" is used for a multi (three) individual whatever, the term can only refer to some kind of group, family, team, or similar .... (you know, like "one baseball team" but "nine individual players") .... If there is a reference to a single entity it can only be either to the team as a whole, or to one of the nine players to the exclusion of the other eight players.
The "Trinity" dogma and its use of the term "God" makes no sense and is contradictory to reason and logic. I would venture to say that the initial propagators of that dogma were well aware of the truth that they were in reality proposing a "three Gods" theology, but then sold that "bag of idolatry" as a "one God bag" (claiming that no real explanation was possible anyways and that the church sheep must not try and think or understand it but rather "simply believe" it (that is, "believe what we tell you, because we know") ...
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@Wolfgang said:
Actually, IF "God" is used for a multi (three) individual whatever, the term can only refer to some kind of group, family, team, or similar .... (you know, like "one baseball team" but "nine individual players") .... If there is a reference to a single entity it can only be either to the team as a whole, or to one of the nine players to the exclusion of the other eight players.The "Trinity" dogma and its use of the term "God" makes no sense and is contradictory to reason and logic. I would venture to say that the initial propagators of that dogma were well aware of the truth that they were in reality proposing a "three Gods" theology, but then sold that "bag of idolatry" as a "one God bag" (claiming that no real explanation was possible anyways and that the church sheep must not try and think or understand it but rather "simply believe" it (that is, "believe what we tell you, because we know") ...
It makes no sense if you think of God physically.
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In my opinion, the conversation has reached nonsense. I will probably bow out and honor Dave with "the last" word. Still I will close by honoring a couple questions.
So the term "God (Deity)" refers actually to a "quality" (rather than - for example - an acting living Being) ?
I don't think I said that. If you got that then I made a mistake. God is an actual living Being who has certain qualities.
Some perhaps think of "God" as a family name, at least that way they have 3 persons who then are only one "God"-family.
I never heard that idea before. Thanks for sharing.
It appears to me that the Trinity dogma uses the term "God (Deity)" in some highly unusual manner and with a sense and meaning not found in Scripture. Thus my questions for clarification ....
I would stick to God just being God and not box Him in with dogmas. Most the people I talk to seem to think that way. This forum is an exception. Oh, yes, we have ways we enjoy discussing to help describe His majesty and character. We enjoy that. Yet all that is far from perfect or dogma.
You are making the same mistake antitrinitarians make. Trying to visualize God in physical ways. But God is Spirit.
Thanks for sharing what you think you know I am doing. Actually, what you describe hadn't occurred to me.
It makes no sense if you think of God physically.
Ohhhh, that would reject Jesus divinity. Well, we see those things differently, don't we!
