The Talking Dead?

C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,005

Some of you may be familiar with the television show, "The Walking Dead". However, we know the fallacy of its depiction. Notwithstanding, I would like to explore what many people, especially, some Christians, have said, their departed loved one visited or spoke to them. Some people (or certain ones) claim to be able to call up their dead loved ones to talk and they talked back. You may have encountered individuals claiming such an experience. Please share with me:

  1. Is such possible?
  2. What is it called?
  3. Is there biblical support for such?
  4. Is it a practice for Christians to engage in, for any reason?
  5. Is it against biblical and Christian practices?
  6. As asked before, is the dead really dead?
  7. A departed loved one can speak to a living family member on his or her own or they must be called up?

These and perhaps, other questions can be asked on this topic. Have you had a personal experience? Have you encountered some with such? What did you share with them or will share in looking forward? CM

Comments

  • Dave_LDave_L Posts: 2,328

    @C_M_ said:
    Some of you may be familiar with the television show, "The Walking Dead". However, we know the fallacy of its depiction. Notwithstanding, I would like to explore what many people, especially, some Christians, have said, their departed loved one visited or spoke to them. Some people (or certain ones) claim to be able to call up their dead loved ones to talk and they talked back. You may have encountered individuals claiming such an experience. Please share with me:

    1. Is such possible?
    2. What is it called?
    3. Is there biblical support for such?
    4. Is it a practice for Christians to engage in, for any reason?
    5. Is it against biblical and Christian practices?
    6. As asked before, is the dead really dead?
    7. A departed loved one can speak to a living family member on his or her own or they must be called up?

    These and perhaps, other questions can be asked on this topic. Have you had a personal experience? Have you encountered some with such? What did you share with them or will share in looking forward? CM

    ““ ‘A man or woman who has in them a spirit of the dead or a familiar [family] spirit must be put to death. They must pelt them with stones; their blood guilt is on themselves.’ ”” (Leviticus 20:27)

    The prohibition here concerns those who would seek special knowledge through the spirits of the dead, whether the dead in general or dead relatives in particular (i.e., familiar spirits; see J. E. Hartley, Leviticus [WBC], 321, and B. A. Levine, Leviticus [JPSTC], 134). Cf. Lev 20:6 below.

    Biblical Studies Press. (2005). The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible. Biblical Studies Press.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,005

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said: These and perhaps, other questions can be asked on this topic. Have you had a personal experience? Have you encountered some with such? What did you share with them or will share in looking forward? CM

    ““ ‘A man or woman who has in them a spirit of the dead or a familiar [family] spirit must be put to death. They must pelt them with stones; their blood guilt is on themselves.’ ”” (Leviticus 20:27)

    The prohibition here concerns those who would seek special knowledge through the spirits of the dead, whether the dead in general or dead relatives in particular (i.e., familiar spirits; see J. E. Hartley, Leviticus [WBC], 321, and B. A. Levine, Leviticus [JPSTC], 134). Cf. Lev 20:6 below.

    Dave, do you know if there a contemporary term for this practice, "a familiar spirit", today. Is this something befalls humanity or something one seeks after? CM

  • Dave_LDave_L Posts: 2,328

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said: These and perhaps, other questions can be asked on this topic. Have you had a personal experience? Have you encountered some with such? What did you share with them or will share in looking forward? CM

    ““ ‘A man or woman who has in them a spirit of the dead or a familiar [family] spirit must be put to death. They must pelt them with stones; their blood guilt is on themselves.’ ”” (Leviticus 20:27)

    The prohibition here concerns those who would seek special knowledge through the spirits of the dead, whether the dead in general or dead relatives in particular (i.e., familiar spirits; see J. E. Hartley, Leviticus [WBC], 321, and B. A. Levine, Leviticus [JPSTC], 134). Cf. Lev 20:6 below.

    Dave, do you know if there a contemporary term for this practice, "a familiar spirit", today. Is this something befalls humanity or something one seeks after? CM

    Hi CM.. I don't know of anything local but I think Ouija board and Tarot Card readers are forms of it. Also I believe false prophets misuse scripture as a fortune telling means when they take prophetic scripture from its context and apply it to the future. An example would be the "left behind" type of apocalyptic forecasting we see today.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,005

    @Dave_L

    @Dave_L said: "I don't know of anything local but I think Ouija board and Tarot Card readers are forms of it. Also, I believe false prophets misuse scripture as a fortune telling means when they take prophetic scripture from its context and apply it to the future. An example would be the "left behind" type of apocalyptic forecasting we see today".

    @CM

    CM's Response:

    Hello Dave,
    Consider these matters on the topic.

    God’s Response to Evil Spiritual Powers

    God commanded saying, “A man also or a woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them” (Lev 20:27). This was because God wanted total loyalty. He said, “And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the Lord am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine” (Lev 20:26). The command of the Old Testament to eliminate people with evil powers was only possible because God had separated Israel from the other nations. Today in every country people mingle with carriers of evil spiritual powers. So eliminating them is not possible because of the laws of the land.

    Even though Saul continued as king, this final disobedience sealed his fate. The Scripture states that Saul died “for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it” (1 Chr 10:13b). Going to Endor was a direct act of disobedience and rebellion "for rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.” (1 Sam 15:23a)

    Offenses Punishable by Death in Old Testament Times -- offenses which carried the death sentence under the theocracy:

    • a. He that smiteth a man till he dies. Exodus 21:12.
      b. Cursing father or mother. Exodus 21:17.
      c. Owner of an ox who knows his ox to be dangerous but does not keep him in and the ox kills a person. Exodus 21:29.
      d. One with a familiar spirit: a wizard, a witch. Exodus 22:18; Leviticus 20:27.
      e. Sacrificing unto any god but the Lord. Exodus 22:20.
      f. Whoever offered children to Molech. Leviticus 20:1-5.
      g. Adultery. Leviticus 20:10.
      h. Worshiping other gods. Deuteronomy 17:1-5.
      i. A stubborn and rebellious son, a glutton and a drunkard. Deuteronomy 21:18-21.
      j. Stealing a man and selling him. Deuteronomy 24:7.

    I found further that when Luther was challenged to abide by his principle of ‘Scripture alone’ and concede that Scriptural authority for praying for the dead was found in 2 Macc. 12: 45f (where praying for the dead, ‘that they might be delivered from their sin’, is said to be ‘a holy and pious thought’), he found a ready reply in Jerome’s ruling that 2 Maccabees did not belong to the books to be used ‘for establishing the authority of ecclesiastical dogmas’. That is the Apocrypha. Metzger gives helpful background information on this issue.

    Do you believe the Bible teachings are enough on this matter? If so, why do so many Christians still drink from broken cisterns? CM

    SOURCE:
    -- Metzger, B.M. (1963). An Introduction to the Apocrypha. (2nd Printing). New York, NY: Oxford University Press, 1963: 147-150.

  • ASN_032ASN_032 Posts: 26

    Hi @C_M_ ,

    Those are very important questions, as there are many people, mainly ones who misinterpret the bible, who try, against what the bible tells us, to try to communicate with the dead and are severely harmed by their actions, the bible clearly warns us against that:

    Ecclesiastes 9:5 :"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten."

    Psalm 115:17 : "It is not the dead who praise the Lord, those who go down to the place of silence;"

    Deuteronomy 18:10-11 : "Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery,interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. "

    Therefore:

    1. Is such possible? - Yes, but it is harmful - see 1 Samuel 28:3–25
    2. What is it called? - Necromancy - see Leviticus 20:27
    3. Is there biblical support for such? - No! There are only warnings against it.
    4. Is it a practice for Christians to engage in, for any reason? Never, Saul was punished for doing so, see 1 Samuel 28:3–25
    5. Is it against biblical and Christian practices? Yes, see Deuteronomy 18:10-11
    6. As asked before, is the dead really dead? That depends on the context, if you tell me the verse we could interpret it according to the relevant context for that verse.
    7. A departed loved one can speak to a living family member on his or her own or they must be called up? They "can", in our dreams (which we can never trust because dreams are figments of our imagination), but we are not allowed to call them, as mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:10-11 .

    So, in conclusion, even if talking to the dead was possible (and it isn't, all mediums talk to "evil spirits" or to nothing and simply lying to their customers, not to the dead) we would still not be allowed to do so.

    Thanks,

    ASN_032

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 3,005

    @ASN_032,

    Thank you for the timely and concise answers to the various questions. Your high view of Scripture is impressive. Keep up the good work. You're a blessing. CM

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