The History of Trinity (Reference facts only)

[Deleted User]

@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus said:

@Wolfgang said:
I have no doubts about God's love for me ... and your words are not stinging either, they actually are rather sweet and gentle and surely express your honest love for God and for His only begotten Son, the man Messiah Jesus.

From my perspective, the Messiah Jesus is both "Son of God" (Man descended from King David 2 Samuel 7:5-16 prophecy also implies God from "your throne will be established forever") and "Son of Man" (God whose image was shown to Daniel 7:13-14 with allusion in Matthew 24:30-31)

Scripture rather clearly teaches that the MAN Christ Jesus is called both "Son of man" and "Son of God". What Scripture doesn't teach - even in those scripture passages you include for "Son of God" - is that Jesus IS God.

I share the sentiments expressed by Jesus while he was beholding the crowds and seeing the many who were sincerely seeking to know God and believe in Him and His only begotten Son ... but who did not know what they should have known from Scripture regarding God and His Messiah, because they had been misled.

Please provide Scripture example(s) to show misleading teaching.

There are a few passages where Jesus speaks about being sent to "the lost sheep" of Israel, speaks about "like sheep without a shepherd", etc.

Also Jesus used God's Name (I AM in Exodus 3:14 to the Israelites) as His own, which appears in the Gospel of John as Ἐγώ εἰμι (I AM)

If you have a more careful look at Exo 3:14 in the Greek LXX, you will notice that God's name there is NOT Ἐγώ εἰμι. These words are simply the emphatic "I" and the word "am".

In Exo 3:14 (LXX) we read that God said "Ἐγώ εἰμί ὁ ὤν" => "I am the I AM". It is not the words Ἐγώ εἰμί which are the name of God, they are simply the words "I am ...". The words comprising the name of God are ὁ ὤν ("the I AM" / "the One Who exists").

When you take a look at Jesus' words in John 8:58, you will notice that Jesus did not use these words ὁ ὤν. He used the words "I" and "am", with exactly the normal meaning of "I" and "am", just as in other statements, such as in "I am the good shepherd" or "I am the bread of life", etc.

Unfortunately, for most of the last 2 millenniums, most of sincere Christian believers have been taught a successor to Babylonian ancient mystery religion by apostate so-called "Christian" churches etc., and the moment someone within such a "church" even dares to ask questions about that "Holy Trinity doctrinal pillar, that person is shunned and experiences persecution of various kinds ... No true love of God found in Trinitarian circles, churches, etc.

Millennium teaching speculation ignores Jesus command in Matthew 28:19 "baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (has one Greek textual variant for the spelling of baptizing while all original Greek manuscripts agree on one name for: Father, Son, Holy Spirit).

Who said anything about "millennium teaching" ?

Apologies for me being unable to find Babylonian ancient mystery speculation in the writings of Pliny & Eusebius. Used Logos Bible software to search 81 resources (Pliny,Eusebius) for (Babylon,Babylonian) WITHIN 11 WORDS (mystery,religion) found results in three resources. The earliest one was written in 418:

No need to look for such terms ... the "Holy Trinity" concept and the related worship (dor example as seen in Roman Catholicism) reflects very similar traits to ancient Babylonian
(as well as other ancient religions) mystery religion which also knows a "Trinity" of "top Gods" (but, of course, doesn't claim that their "THREE" are only ONE.

Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus

@Wolfgang said:

@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus said:

@Wolfgang said:
I have no doubts about God's love for me ... and your words are not stinging either, they actually are rather sweet and gentle and surely express your honest love for God and for His only begotten Son, the man Messiah Jesus.

From my perspective, the Messiah Jesus is both "Son of God" (Man descended from King David 2 Samuel 7:5-16 prophecy also implies God from "your throne will be established forever") and "Son of Man" (God whose image was shown to Daniel 7:13-14 with allusion in Matthew 24:30-31)

Scripture rather clearly teaches that the MAN Christ Jesus is called both "Son of man" and "Son of God". What Scripture doesn't teach - even in those scripture passages you include for "Son of God" - is that Jesus IS God.

With "One God = One Person" filter firmly in place, your "clear" assertion the MAN Christ Jesus appears correct, which proves eisegesis. The exegesis understanding of John 1:14 shows The Word (eternally being God in John 1:1) became flesh (human) whose name is Jesus John 1:36

I share the sentiments expressed by Jesus while he was beholding the crowds and seeing the many who were sincerely seeking to know God and believe in Him and His only begotten Son ... but who did not know what they should have known from Scripture regarding God and His Messiah, because they had been misled.

Please provide Scripture example(s) to show misleading teaching.

There are a few passages where Jesus speaks about being sent to "the lost sheep" of Israel, speaks about "like sheep without a shepherd", etc.

In John 10, Jesus taught that His sheep hear His voice. If you sincerely want to hear Jesus speak to you, then ask Him. God can help you see past your eisegesis filter (humanly praying for reality of Jesus = God to be revealed in dreams/visions, which allows you to choose whether to believe or not).

Also Jesus used God's Name (I AM in Exodus 3:14 to the Israelites) as His own, which appears in the Gospel of John as Ἐγώ εἰμι (I AM)

If you have a more careful look at Exo 3:14 in the Greek LXX, you will notice that God's name there is NOT Ἐγώ εἰμι. These words are simply the emphatic "I" and the word "am". In Exo 3:14 (LXX) we read that God said "Ἐγώ εἰμί ὁ ὤν" => "I am the I AM". It is not the words Ἐγώ εἰμί which are the name of God, they are simply the words "I am ...". The words comprising the name of God are ὁ ὤν ("the I AM" / "the One Who exists"). When you take a look at Jesus' words in John 8:58, you will notice that Jesus did not use these words ὁ ὤν. He used the words "I" and "am", with exactly the normal meaning of "I" and "am", just as in other statements, such as in "I am the good shepherd" or "I am the bread of life", etc.

When those sent to arrest Jesus heard Ἐγώ εἰμί in John 18:5 they drew back and fell to the ground. Kneeling to worship Jesus is consistent with Philippians 2:10-11
More literal translation of Ἐγώ εἰμί ὁ ὤν" => "I, I AM the one" since Ἐγώ is not needed for normal "I am" meaning of εἰμί

Unfortunately, for most of the last 2 millenniums, most of sincere Christian believers have been taught a successor to Babylonian ancient mystery religion by apostate so-called "Christian" churches etc., and the moment someone within such a "church" even dares to ask questions about that "Holy Trinity doctrinal pillar, that person is shunned and experiences persecution of various kinds ... No true love of God found in Trinitarian circles, churches, etc.

Millennium teaching speculation ignores Jesus command in Matthew 28:19 "baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (has one Greek textual variant for the spelling of baptizing while all original Greek manuscripts agree on one name for: Father, Son, Holy Spirit).

Who said anything about "millennium teaching" ?

@Wolfgang wrote "Unfortunately, for most of the last 2 millenniums, most of sincere Christian believers have been taught a successor to Babylonian ancient mystery religion ..." that cannot be verified (lacks evidence).
In contrast, Scripture evidence (plus church practices prior to Nicean councils) verify Jesus command in Matthew 28:19 "baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (has one Greek textual variant for the spelling of baptizing while all original Greek manuscripts agree on one name for: Father, Son, Holy Spirit). In Acts, the lack of self-seeking Love allowed Holy Spirit (God) to specify baptism in the name of Jesus so God was glorified

Apologies for me being unable to find Babylonian ancient mystery speculation in the writings of Pliny & Eusebius. Used Logos Bible software to search 81 resources (Pliny,Eusebius) for (Babylon,Babylonian) WITHIN 11 WORDS (mystery,religion) found results in three resources. The earliest one was written in 418:

No need to look for such terms ... the "Holy Trinity" concept and the related worship (dor example as seen in Roman Catholicism) reflects very similar traits to ancient Babylonian (as well as other ancient religions) mystery religion which also knows a "Trinity" of "top Gods" (but, of course, doesn't claim that their "THREE" are only ONE.

Verifiable evidence (internal and/or external) is lacking for trinity modification(s) of Scripture prior to establishment of Roman Catholicism. Term "trinity" reflects Biblical exegesis of One God = Three Persons (Voices) = One Lord Almighty = CommUnity Love

Keep Smiling