Syria ... who are the liars?

Hi everyone,
we in the Western (USA / NATO dominated) world have been and continue to be indoctrinated about how bad president Assad of Syria is and how the population of Syria is suffering under his dictatorship.
Here's a link to a video clip from a meeting in Syrian where president Assad was present ... have a look at what happened:

https://youtu.be/DHSdl1K1llM

Could it just be that the Western regimes are the liars?

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Comments

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,341

    @Wolfgang said:

    Could it just be that the Western regimes are the liars?

    No.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,221

    I can't view the video. Can someone give me a synopsis?

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,624

    @Bill_Coley said:

    @Wolfgang said:
    Could it just be that the Western regimes are the liars?

    No.

    Of course, not. They are always the good guys and bring democracy and liberty etc as was seen in the regime changes they started in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Ukraine ... :wink:

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,937

    @Wolfgang said:
    Hi everyone,
    we in the Western (USA / NATO dominated) world have been and continue to be indoctrinated about how bad president Assad of Syria is and how the population of Syria is suffering under his dictatorship.
    Here's a link to a video clip from a meeting in Syrian where president Assad was present ... have a look at what happened:

    https://youtu.be/DHSdl1K1llM

    Could it just be that the Western regimes are the liars?

    Wolfgang,
    You are far too intelligent to believe a video clip of the "Residents of the Syrian province of Suwayda, grateful for their liberation from the captivity of ISIL (ISIS or IS) terrorists, lifted Syrian President Bashar Assad onto their shoulders during an official reception".

    If you believe that video clip, Mr. Trump is the most truthful, moral, compassionate, sympathetic, generous, thoughtful, wise, respectful, religious, friendliest, intelligent, humble person and leader of the "Free World". CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,624

    @C_M_ said:
    Wolfgang,
    You are far too intelligent to believe a video clip of the "Residents of the Syrian province of Suwayda, grateful for their liberation from the captivity of ISIL (ISIS or IS) terrorists, lifted Syrian President Bashar Assad onto their shoulders during an official reception".

    Can you tell me on what you base your ideas that this video is not what it shows? Could you tell us what the video clip shows instead?

    If you believe that video clip, Mr. Trump is the most truthful, moral, compassionate, sympathetic, generous, thoughtful, wise, respectful, religious, friendliest, intelligent, humble person and leader of the "Free World". CM

    What does this "hate rant" about Trump have to do with the video? As I asked above, can you tell me what in the video causes you to not believe what it shows? Furthermore, can you tell me what it does show instead?

    If you refuse to have a proper exchange and do not answer my simple questions, then rather don't reply instead of posting such stuff as you did in this post.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,937

    @Wolfgang said:

    @C_M_ said:
    Wolfgang,
    You are far too intelligent to believe a video clip of the "Residents of the Syrian province of Suwayda, grateful for their liberation from the captivity of ISIL (ISIS or IS) terrorists, lifted Syrian President Bashar Assad onto their shoulders during an official reception".

    Can you tell me on what you base your ideas that this video is not what it shows?

    Syrian President Bashar Assad is a "good man". He's a hero.

    Could you tell us what the video clip shows instead?

    Propaganda, pure and simple. Why? No context. People could be paid or frightened, etc.

    If you believe that video clip, Mr. Trump is the most truthful, moral, compassionate, sympathetic, generous, thoughtful, wise, respectful, religious, friendliest, intelligent, humble person and leader of the "Free World". CM

    What does this "hate rant" about Trump have to do with the video?

    Nothing! It's not "hate rant". It's just a comparison or contrast of what appears to be but is not; in light of opened view, internationally. In addition, it re-enforced my point that you're an intelligent man and with a reasonable degree of discernment.

    As I asked above, can you tell me what in the video causes you to not believe what it shows?

    See above.

    Furthermore, can you tell me what it does show instead?

    Staged theater.

    If you refuse to have a proper exchange and do not answer my simple questions, then rather don't reply instead of posting such stuff as you did in this post.

    Slow down! You haven't given me a chance to answer before restricting me from participating, a call beyond your authority. Admit, you were a bit hasty? ;) CM

    PS. Thanks for the "simple questions". CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,624

    @C_M_ said:

    Can you tell me on what you base your ideas that this video is not what it shows?

    Syrian President Bashar Assad is a "good man". He's a hero.

    So you think that the USA sponsored IS/Qaeida terrorists are the good guys? Who liberated most of Syria from those terrorists? There were elections - even amidst terrible wars - and Assad had the support of most of the Syrian public ... you mean to deny that? On what information do you base your knowledge of the situation?

    Could you tell us what the video clip shows instead?

    Propaganda, pure and simple. Why? No context. People could be paid or frightened, etc.

    Now, your comment makes no sense in light of what the video shows and what the context is in which it was filmed. Your "point" is solely assumption and suspicion without any evidence.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,937

    "...comment makes no sense in light of what the video shows..."

    I answered your questions and you made an evaluation of them. Let me think. :* CM

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,937

    Wolfgang,
    Are you happy Trump is withdrawing American troops? CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,624

    @C_M_ said:
    Wolfgang,
    Are you happy Trump is withdrawing American troops? CM

    Let's wait and see if the Military/Industrial powers will even permit him to do so ... thus far, it seems that nothing much has happened as of yet.
    By the way, do you realize that the presence of USA military in Syria is evidence of war crime and violation of international law? Actually, those responsible for putting troops into Syria would have been arrested and sent to the international court at DenHaag (that is, of course, if they were from some "banana republic" and not the USA) ...

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,221

    @Wolfgang said:

    @C_M_ said:
    Wolfgang,
    Are you happy Trump is withdrawing American troops? CM

    Let's wait and see if the Military/Industrial powers will even permit him to do so ... thus far, it seems that nothing much has happened as of yet.
    By the way, do you realize that the presence of USA military in Syria is evidence of war crime and violation of international law? Actually, those responsible for putting troops into Syria would have been arrested and sent to the international court at DenHaag (that is, of course, if they were from some "banana republic" and not the USA) ...

    Do you realize that there is not really such a thing as international law as it is not enforceable without the cooperation of all involved?

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,221

    @Bill_Coley said:

    @Wolfgang said:

    Could it just be that the Western regimes are the liars?

    No.

    Wow, we agree.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,624

    @reformed said:

    @Wolfgang said:
    By the way, do you realize that the presence of USA military in Syria is evidence of war crime and violation of international law? Actually, those responsible for putting troops into Syria would have been arrested and sent to the international court at DenHaag (that is, of course, if they were from some "banana republic" and not the USA) ...

    Do you realize that there is not really such a thing as international law as it is not enforceable without the cooperation of all involved?

    I realize that there is such international law and that there are acts defined as war crimes ... whether some country violates them has nothing to do with whether it cooperates or not.
    Or are you saying, for example, there is no stealing unless all involved (thief and victim both) "cooperate" ???
    Just because the USA does not cooperate, does that mean it doesn't violate international law ? Like the thief, who declares there is no such thing as theft, therefore I am not stealing?

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,937

    Where there is no law, no sin.
    Where there is no law, there is no crime. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Unenforced laws lead to anarchy. Where are we? CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,221

    @Wolfgang said:

    @reformed said:

    @Wolfgang said:
    By the way, do you realize that the presence of USA military in Syria is evidence of war crime and violation of international law? Actually, those responsible for putting troops into Syria would have been arrested and sent to the international court at DenHaag (that is, of course, if they were from some "banana republic" and not the USA) ...

    Do you realize that there is not really such a thing as international law as it is not enforceable without the cooperation of all involved?

    I realize that there is such international law and that there are acts defined as war crimes ... whether some country violates them has nothing to do with whether it cooperates or not.
    Or are you saying, for example, there is no stealing unless all involved (thief and victim both) "cooperate" ???
    Just because the USA does not cooperate, does that mean it doesn't violate international law ? Like the thief, who declares there is no such thing as theft, therefore I am not stealing?

    I am saying that each country is sovereign. There is no such thing as international law. As soon as a country decides they no longer want to abide by it the others have no say over that countries actions unless they have military superiority. In effect, international law is the same thing as an alliance. You have it until one of the parties break it. It is not like law where there is an actual sovereign body over the ones under the law.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,624

    @C_M_ said:
    Where there is no law, no sin.
    Where there is no law, there is no crime.

    Is this latter idea true? I don't think so.

    You can't have your cake and eat it too. Unenforced laws lead to anarchy. Where are we? CM

    Does that mean, we'll just do away with "laws" and steal from others and/or murder people as it perhaps pleases us?

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,624

    @reformed said:
    I am saying that each country is sovereign. There is no such thing as international law.

    Perhaps you want to take a look at the respective article in Wikipedia ?

    As soon as a country decides they no longer want to abide by it the others have no say over that countries actions unless they have military superiority.

    Military superiority is thus the law maker?

    In effect, international law is the same thing as an alliance. You have it until one of the parties break it. It is not like law where there is an actual sovereign body over the ones under the law.

    Thus, when a society agrees on certain laws, and someone no longer likes those laws, they are no longer under that law? if and when they remain inside that society they could just do to all others as they seem fit?
    See above ... tyrants throughout history thought like you do ... until their military power fell apart in moral depravity.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,937

    @Wolfgang said:

    @C_M_ said:
    Where there is no law, no sin.
    Where there is no law, there is no crime.

    Is this latter idea true? I don't think so.

    Wolfgang,
    What makes a crime, a crime? Also, consider, if action against a law or laws or an act is carried out; everyman in society a judge? What are the norms? You have them or not. Can one violate what is not? All of society's laws are either implied or explicit. Laws are applicable to the Bible and society. Admit it, Wolfgang There were laws in place for Adam and Eve and before Sinai (Ten-commandments). A proper response to this is a new thread, if you disagree.

    You can't have your cake and eat it too. Unenforced laws lead to anarchy. Where are we? CM

    Does that mean, we'll just do away with "laws" and steal from others and/or murder people as it perhaps pleases us?

    Is not this is what many countries are doing today? Especially, those who are against or falls away from "International law" agreements. CM

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,937

    @Wolfgang said: "...agrees on certain laws, and someone no longer likes those laws, they are no longer under that law? if and when they remain inside that society they could just do to all others as they seem fit"?

    What's the purpose of the UN (sad institution)?

    See above ... tyrants throughout history thought like you do ... until their military power fell apart in moral depravity.

    This is why countries are ever building more and bigger bombs. Look at Russia the other day with its so-called new missile system. CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,624

    @C_M_ said:

    @Wolfgang said: "...agrees on certain laws, and someone no longer likes those laws, they are no longer under that law? if and when they remain inside that society they could just do to all others as they seem fit"?

    What's the purpose of the UN (sad institution)?

    I have not sufficiently looked into the matter of the UN to answer your question ... don't know enough of its history, who originally was behind it, for what supposed purpose and for what real purpose it was established, who dictated policies, etc etc etc

    I do know for sure that what is said and propagated nowadays about it, especially from certain powers in the so-called Western world, contains more "fog" and "muddy waters" than a clear and true picture

    See above ... tyrants throughout history thought like you do ... until their military power fell apart in moral depravity.

    This is why countries are ever building more and bigger bombs. Look at Russia the other day with its so-called new missile system. CM

    Does Russia have the same right as the country of Israel to take measures for defending itself, seeing that those who even declare themselves by now to be Russia's enemies (USA & NATO) ?

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,937

    @Wolfgang said:

    This is why countries are ever building more and bigger bombs. Look at Russia the other day with its so-called new missile system. CM

    Does Russia have the same right as the country of Israel to take measures for defending itself, seeing that those who even declare themselves by now to be Russia's enemies (USA & NATO) ?

    Wolfgang,
    Don't compare little Israel with big Russia. Don't go there! No one is threatening Russia. Let Israel do what's necessary to protect herself. She's in that corner by herself. Be proud of how far she has come. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 2,221

    @Wolfgang said:

    @reformed said:
    I am saying that each country is sovereign. There is no such thing as international law.

    Perhaps you want to take a look at the respective article in Wikipedia ?

    As soon as a country decides they no longer want to abide by it the others have no say over that countries actions unless they have military superiority.

    Military superiority is thus the law maker?

    In effect, international law is the same thing as an alliance. You have it until one of the parties break it. It is not like law where there is an actual sovereign body over the ones under the law.

    Thus, when a society agrees on certain laws, and someone no longer likes those laws, they are no longer under that law? if and when they remain inside that society they could just do to all others as they seem fit?
    See above ... tyrants throughout history thought like you do ... until their military power fell apart in moral depravity.

    No, don't be stupid, that's not what I said. What I said was INTERNATIONAL law is dependent on cooperation and no country can be coerced to follow it unless the other countries have military superiority. The same is true with private citizens. Think about it, the Colonists were under British Rule, then they collectively decided they didn't want to follow that rule anymore and they revolted. They beat Britain. So yes, the larger/stronger party always wins. Each country is sovereign and international law is just silly.

    @Wolfgang said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Wolfgang said: "...agrees on certain laws, and someone no longer likes those laws, they are no longer under that law? if and when they remain inside that society they could just do to all others as they seem fit"?

    What's the purpose of the UN (sad institution)?

    I have not sufficiently looked into the matter of the UN to answer your question ... don't know enough of its history, who originally was behind it, for what supposed purpose and for what real purpose it was established, who dictated policies, etc etc etc

    I do know for sure that what is said and propagated nowadays about it, especially from certain powers in the so-called Western world, contains more "fog" and "muddy waters" than a clear and true picture

    See above ... tyrants throughout history thought like you do ... until their military power fell apart in moral depravity.

    This is why countries are ever building more and bigger bombs. Look at Russia the other day with its so-called new missile system. CM

    Does Russia have the same right as the country of Israel to take measures for defending itself, seeing that those who even declare themselves by now to be Russia's enemies (USA & NATO) ?

    Russia acts in aggression, not defense.

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,624

    @reformed said:

    Does Russia have the same right as the country of Israel to take measures for defending itself, seeing that those who even declare themselves by now to be Russia's enemies (USA & NATO) ?

    Russia acts in aggression, not defense.

    So you say ... tell me, which countries have been attacked and/or invaded militarily by Russia in the past 3 decades? also, how many countries have been attacked and/or invaded militarily by the USA / NATO?

    By the way, I know one fact first hand ... after the re-unification of Germany in 1990, Russia's military forces left Germany, USA and NATO military forces stayed. Russia (then USSR, represented by president Gorbatchev was willing to grant Germany negotiations for a peace treaty if Germany would become a neutral nation, the USA (represented by president G.H.W. Bush) refused such and only agreed to the re-unification if the USA /NATO troops remained (in continuation of the occupation forces) in Germany.

    Have a look at facts, rather than your main stream media's regime propaganda ...

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,937

    Fact: Russia wants to break up NATO. CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,624

    @C_M_ said:
    Fact: Russia wants to break up NATO. CM

    says who?
    Are you yet dodging another issue, instead of answering questions actually asked?

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,937

    @Wolfgang said:

    @C_M_ said:
    Fact: Russia wants to break up NATO. CM

    says who?
    Are you yet dodging another issue, instead of answering questions actually asked?

    No. There is a longing for the old USSR. Putin loves power and control like Trump. This is the truth behind the question and the ones not asked. Come on, cut through the chase. CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,624

    @C_M_ said:

    @Wolfgang said:

    @C_M_ said:
    Fact: Russia wants to break up NATO. CM

    says who?
    Are you yet dodging another issue, instead of answering questions actually asked?

    No. There is a longing for the old USSR.

    says who? what indications or declarations to that effect have been made by Russian politicians?

    Putin loves power and control like Trump.

    I would say there is quite a difference ... the one country that thinks of itself as THE EXCEPTIONAL country with a God given right to rule the world is the ISRAEL/USA, and I say so based on public declarations made by their respective presidents, in particular various USA presidents since early 1990.

    Do you know that Putin is so hated by the USA deep state because he put an end during his first term to the exploration and sell out of Russia's economy and resources to USA companies under the drunkard "bought and paid for" Yeltsin??

    This is the truth behind the question and the ones not asked. Come on, cut through the chase. CM

    My cutting through the chase only reveals to me your USA propaganda programmed ideas ... but I do understand that it may be a little more difficult for you to see through things and actually look for facts rather than the propaganda with which you seem to be bombarded ...

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,937

    @Wolfgang said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Wolfgang said:

    @C_M_ said:
    Fact: Russia wants to break up NATO. CM

    says who?
    Are you yet dodging another issue, instead of answering questions actually asked?

    No. There is a longing for the old USSR.

    says who? what indications or declarations to that effect have been made by Russian politicians?

    Putin loves power! Look at actions, what is he doing with the most recent military activities, etc..? Open your eyes. Why are his hands in the USA 2016 elections?

    Putin loves power and control like Trump.

    I would say there is quite a difference ... the one country that thinks of itself as THE EXCEPTIONAL country with a God given right to rule the world is the ISRAEL/USA, and I say so based on public declarations made by their respective presidents, in particular various USA presidents since early 1990.

    Leave Israel out of this!

    Do you know that Putin is so hated by the USA deep state because he put an end during his first term to the exploration and sell out of Russia's economy and resources to USA companies under the drunkard "bought and paid for" Yeltsin??

    Are you trying to say Yeltsin was Russia's Trump and Trump is the USA's Yeltsin? CM

    This is the truth behind the question and the ones not asked. Come on, cut through the chase. CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,624

    @C_M_ said:

    @Wolfgang said:

    No. There is a longing for the old USSR.

    says who? what indications or declarations to that effect have been made by Russian politicians?

    Putin loves power! Look at actions, what is he doing with the most recent military activities, etc..? Open your eyes. Why are his hands in the USA 2016 elections?

    What recent military activities? NATO exercises in the Baltic countries right at Russia's front door? what do you think would be the outcry in the USA if Russia conducted military exercises in Mexico right at the Texas border?
    The ones who love power are the USA Democrats and the USA military/industrial complex, high finance, etc ...
    If you opened your eyes and took your propaganda coloured glassses off, you would see better, that is more objectively

    Putin loves power and control like Trump.

    I would say there is quite a difference ... the one country that thinks of itself as THE EXCEPTIONAL country with a God given right to rule the world is the ISRAEL/USA, and I say so based on public declarations made by their respective presidents, in particular various USA presidents since early 1990.

    Leave Israel out of this!

    That's hard to do ... since they and their lobby are (and have been for quite some time) dominating Washington politics and foreign policy ... open your eyes, CM, and even you can see more clearly

    Do you know that Putin is so hated by the USA deep state because he put an end during his first term to the exploration and sell out of Russia's economy and resources to USA companies under the drunkard "bought and paid for" Yeltsin??

    Are you trying to say Yeltsin was Russia's Trump and Trump is the USA's Yeltsin?

    No, Yeltsin was the USA hegemon's bought and paid for drunkard puppet ... effectively a traitor who sold out Russia to the USA (almost turned Russia with the help of a number of Western installed oligarchs into a USA vassal country)

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,937

    @Wolfgang said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Wolfgang said:

    No. There is a longing for the old USSR.

    says who? what indications or declarations to that effect have been made by Russian politicians?

    Putin loves power! Look at actions, what is he doing with the most recent military activities, etc..? Open your eyes. Why are his hands in the USA 2016 elections?

    What recent military activities?

    Answer: "In February 2014, Russia made several military incursions into Ukrainian territory. After Euromaidan protests and the fall of Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych, Russian soldiers without insignias took control of strategic positions and infrastructure within the Ukrainian territory of Crimea". CM

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