Gunman Kills Jews in Synagogue on the Sabbath, USA

C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440
edited October 28 in News & Current Events

11 Dead, Several Others Shot At Pittsburgh Synagogue

A gunman kills Jews in the Tree of life Jewish Synagogue in Pittsburgh, USA. FBI Leading Investigation As Shooting Deemed A 'Hate Crime'. What's becoming of America and hate? This is a shameful act to attack people at worship on the Holy Sabbath. This is a cowardly act. We're saddened. The peaceful Jews of America don't deserve this. See below earlier news clips: https://cbsloc.al/2D7cXUG

Pray for the families and injured. I would hold my peace and allow my warm tears to flow freely to speak for now. Guns are no friends to religion. Jews are Americans too. CM

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  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:
    11 Dead, Several Others Shot At Pittsburgh Synagogue

    A gunman kills Jews in the Tree of life Jewish Synagogue in Pittsburgh, USA. FBI Leading Investigation As Shooting Deemed A 'Hate Crime'. What's becoming of America and hate? This is a shameful act to attack people at worship on the Holy Sabbath. This is a cowardly act. We're saddened. The peaceful Jews of America don't deserve this. See below earlier news clips: https://cbsloc.al/2D7cXUG

    Pray for the families and injured. I would hold my peace and allow my warm tears to flow freely to speak for now. Guns are no friends to religion. Jews are Americans too. CM

    For once I thought you were going to be able to post something about a shooting without politicizing it. I was wrong.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:
    11 Dead, Several Others Shot At Pittsburgh Synagogue

    A gunman kills Jews in the Tree of life Jewish Synagogue in Pittsburgh, USA. FBI Leading Investigation As Shooting Deemed A 'Hate Crime'. What's becoming of America and hate? This is a shameful act to attack people at worship on the Holy Sabbath. This is a cowardly act. We're saddened. The peaceful Jews of America don't deserve this. See below earlier news clips: https://cbsloc.al/2D7cXUG

    Pray for the families and injured. I would hold my peace and allow my warm tears to flow freely to speak for now. Guns are no friends to religion. Jews are Americans too. CM

    For once I thought you were going to be able to post something about a shooting without politicizing it. I was wrong.

    Reformed,
    What are you talking about? What's political about what I said? Can you take a moment to grieve with the families and the Jewish people? I am angry but choose to exercise restraint in my remarks for now. Why can't you respect this? CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:
    11 Dead, Several Others Shot At Pittsburgh Synagogue

    A gunman kills Jews in the Tree of life Jewish Synagogue in Pittsburgh, USA. FBI Leading Investigation As Shooting Deemed A 'Hate Crime'. What's becoming of America and hate? This is a shameful act to attack people at worship on the Holy Sabbath. This is a cowardly act. We're saddened. The peaceful Jews of America don't deserve this. See below earlier news clips: https://cbsloc.al/2D7cXUG

    Pray for the families and injured. I would hold my peace and allow my warm tears to flow freely to speak for now. Guns are no friends to religion. Jews are Americans too. CM

    For once I thought you were going to be able to post something about a shooting without politicizing it. I was wrong.

    Reformed,
    What are you talking about? What's political about what I said? Can you take a moment to grieve with the families and the Jewish people? I am angry but choose to exercise restraint in my remarks for now. Why can't you respect this? CM

    You made it political when you said "Guns are no friends to religion" clearly referencing your obsession with the anti-gun movement.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,142

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:
    11 Dead, Several Others Shot At Pittsburgh Synagogue

    A gunman kills Jews in the Tree of life Jewish Synagogue in Pittsburgh, USA. FBI Leading Investigation As Shooting Deemed A 'Hate Crime'. What's becoming of America and hate? This is a shameful act to attack people at worship on the Holy Sabbath. This is a cowardly act. We're saddened. The peaceful Jews of America don't deserve this. See below earlier news clips: https://cbsloc.al/2D7cXUG

    Pray for the families and injured. I would hold my peace and allow my warm tears to flow freely to speak for now. Guns are no friends to religion. Jews are Americans too. CM

    For once I thought you were going to be able to post something about a shooting without politicizing it. I was wrong....

    You made it political when you said "Guns are no friends to religion" clearly referencing your obsession with the anti-gun movement.

    From the Pittsburgh Gazette:

    Someone posting under the name Robert Bowers on the social media site Gab.com, wrote on or around Oct. 10: "Why hello there HIAS! [HIAS National Refugee Shabbat - an organization that provides support for refugees from many different countries] You like to bring in hostile invaders to dwell among us? We appreciate the list of friends you have provided," and included a link to the website for HIAS National Refugee Shabbat, formerly the Hebrew Immigration Aid Society....

    Robert Bowers on Gab.com posted this morning that "HIAS likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can't sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I'm going in."

    And from USA Today...

    The man accused in a shooting at a Pittsburgh synagogue Saturday morning screamed anti-Semitic epithets, including "All Jews must die," as he fired at random, a law enforcement official told USA TODAY.

    Seems clear to me that Robert Bowers, the alleged gunman in the Pittsburgh incident, "politicized" the shooting himself when by his massacre of people in a Jewish temple he declared his belief that immigrants (and those who support them) are no friends to his "people."

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    Reformed,

    What are you talking about? What's political about what I said? Can you take a moment to grieve with the families and the Jewish people? I am angry but choose to exercise restraint in my remarks for now. Why can't you respect this? CM

    You made it political when you said "Guns are no friends to religion" clearly referencing your obsession with the anti-gun movement.

    Why do I feel you're trying to provoke me? CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    Reformed,

    What are you talking about? What's political about what I said? Can you take a moment to grieve with the families and the Jewish people? I am angry but choose to exercise restraint in my remarks for now. Why can't you respect this? CM

    You made it political when you said "Guns are no friends to religion" clearly referencing your obsession with the anti-gun movement.

    Why do I feel you're trying to provoke me? CM

    Just pointing out a fact that you and Bill and other liberals are disingenuous with your compassion and grief during these times and instead of actually caring about what happened immediately start trumpeting your anti-2nd Amendment talking points.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,142

    @reformed said:
    Just pointing out a fact that you and Bill and other liberals are disingenuous with your compassion and grief during these times and instead of actually caring about what happened immediately start trumpeting your anti-2nd Amendment talking points.

    I know of no person - conservative or liberal; Republican or Democrat - whose "compassion and grief during these times" are not, in fact, genuine and sincere. More specific to your claim, I have no reason to believe CM's compassion and grief are not sincere, and I know for a fact that mine are real. On that basis, I contend that your accusation of disingenuous expressions is baseless.

    Why would we "immediately start trumpeting" our proposals for change "during these times"? Because our nation's current approach to addressing gun violence - thoughts and prayers for victims and families, a few days of political leader rhetorical alarm, followed by a resumption of the status quo - has done nothing to reduce gun violence.

    Until your way produces results, reformed (which it hasn't... and won't) you can expect us to "start trumpeting" every time people are massacred.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @Bill_Coley said:

    @reformed said:
    Just pointing out a fact that you and Bill and other liberals are disingenuous with your compassion and grief during these times and instead of actually caring about what happened immediately start trumpeting your anti-2nd Amendment talking points.

    I know of no person - conservative or liberal; Republican or Democrat - whose "compassion and grief during these times" are not, in fact, genuine and sincere. More specific to your claim, I have no reason to believe CM's compassion and grief are not sincere, and I know for a fact that mine are real. On that basis, I contend that your accusation of disingenuous expressions is baseless.

    Why would we "immediately start trumpeting" our proposals for change "during these times"? Because our nation's current approach to addressing gun violence - thoughts and prayers for victims and families, a few days of political leader rhetorical alarm, followed by a resumption of the status quo - has done nothing to reduce gun violence.

    Until your way produces results, reformed (which it hasn't... and won't) you can expect us to "start trumpeting" every time people are massacred.

    Gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions. So our ways do reduce gun violence.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440
    edited October 28

    @reformed said:

    Gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions. So our ways do reduce gun violence.

    You're talking nonsense. What did a 54 and 97-year-old men (youngest/ the oldest) do to be shot like dogs in the place of worship? Stand with the Jewish community or remain silent.

    Precious Jewish blood has been spilled on the Sabbath. Do you have no better words? Are you against the Jews?

    What's wrong with you? The life of a Jew must not be used as kindle to justify gun ownership.

    Show some respect for the loss of Jewish life! Why is your heart so cold. Have you no shame? CM

    Post edited by C_M_ on
  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions. So our ways do reduce gun violence.

    You're talking nonsense. What did a 54 and 97-year-old men (youngest/ the oldest) do to be shot like dogs in the place of worship? Stand with the Jewish community or remain silent.

    You can stand with the Jewish community and also be pro 2nd Amendment.

    Precious Jewish blood has been spilled on the Sabbath. Do you have no better words? Are you against the Jews?

    What's wrong with you? The life of a Jew must not be used as kindle to justify gun ownership.

    Nor should it be used to justify anti-gun politics.

    Show some respect for the loss of Jewish life! Why is your heart so cold. Have you no shame? CM

    That is what I am asking you.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,142

    @reformed said:

    Gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions. So our ways do reduce gun violence.

    First, HERE IS A SITE that reports every state's year 2016 per capita firearm-related death rate. According to THIS SITE, which rates the "friendliness" of states' gun laws from a gun rights advocate's perspective, the ten states from the previous site's list with the highest per capita death rates [South Carolina, Arkansas, New Mexico, Montana, Missouri, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and Arkansas] average a four out of five star rating - i.e. gun laws that are deemed pretty "friendly" - while the ten states with the lowest per capita death rates [Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York, Hawaii, Connecticut, New Jersey, Minnesota, California, Maine, and Washington] average 1.9 stars out of 5 - i.e. laws deemed basically half as "friendly" as those of the states with the highest death rates.

    More decisive is the fact that the states with the four lowest death rates ALL are rated as one out of five stars - not at all friendly - while the states with the four highest death rates average 3.75 stars out of five - nearly four times the rating of the low death rate states.

    And finally, among the states with the ten lowest death rates, as the "friendliness" rating increases - from one star to three over the ten states - SO DOES the death rate. Translation: As gun laws get more "friendly" from a gun rights' perspective, the firearm death rate increases.

    On that factual basis, I question the validity of your claim that "gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions." What is factual basis upon which you make it?

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @Bill_Coley said:

    @reformed said:

    Gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions. So our ways do reduce gun violence.

    First, HERE IS A SITE that reports every state's year 2016 per capita firearm-related death rate. According to THIS SITE, which rates the "friendliness" of states' gun laws from a gun rights advocate's perspective, the ten states from the previous site's list with the highest per capita death rates [South Carolina, Arkansas, New Mexico, Montana, Missouri, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and Arkansas] average a four out of five star rating - i.e. gun laws that are deemed pretty "friendly" - while the ten states with the lowest per capita death rates [Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York, Hawaii, Connecticut, New Jersey, Minnesota, California, Maine, and Washington] average 1.9 stars out of 5 - i.e. laws deemed basically half as "friendly" as those of the states with the highest death rates.

    More decisive is the fact that the states with the four lowest death rates ALL are rated as one out of five stars - not at all friendly - while the states with the four highest death rates average 3.75 stars out of five - nearly four times the rating of the low death rate states.

    And finally, among the states with the ten lowest death rates, as the "friendliness" rating increases - from one star to three over the ten states - SO DOES the death rate. Translation: As gun laws get more "friendly" from a gun rights' perspective, the firearm death rate increases.

    On that factual basis, I question the validity of your claim that "gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions." What is factual basis upon which you make it?

    FBI data.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions. So our ways do reduce gun violence.

    You're talking nonsense. What did a 54 and 97-year-old men (youngest/ the oldest) do to be shot like dogs in the place of worship? Stand with the Jewish community or remain silent.

    You can stand with the Jewish community and also be pro 2nd Amendment.

    Precious Jewish blood has been spilled on the Sabbath. Do you have no better words? Are you against the Jews?

    What's wrong with you? The life of a Jew must not be used as kindle to justify gun ownership.

    Nor should it be used to justify anti-gun politics.

    Show some respect for the loss of Jewish life! Why is your heart so cold. Have you no shame? CM

    That is what I am asking you.

    Reformed,
    I think I am too emotional to deal with you and the bloodthirsty NRA. This organization needs to be disbanded! The blood of Jews is on the hands of the NRA. There is no need for an AR-15 in the general society. Leave the Jews alone! Their bodies are not in the ground yet. Hold your tongue! CM

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,142

    @reformed said:

    FBI.gov

    That's not a link to the specific data you relied on as the basis of your claim that "gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions." Obviously you consulted specific pages within the FBI site. Please provide links to those specific pages.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @Bill_Coley said:

    @reformed said:

    FBI.gov

    That's not a link to the specific data you relied on as the basis of your claim that "gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions." Obviously you consulted specific pages within the FBI site. Please provide links to those specific pages.

    https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ucr

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,142

    Reasonably confident that you would not offer links to specific data that support your claim (and you didn't, even though I asked for them twice) I did some research on my own. The data I found - by coincidence, using the "Crime Data Explorer" link provided on the home page to which you offered a link - do not support your claim.

    According to the FBI, in 2017, the states with the ten lowest firearm-related per capita death rates (referenced in one of my previous posts) averaged 277 "incidents" of "violent crime" per 100,000 population, while the states with the ten HIGHEST firearm-related death rates averaged 508 such "incidents" per 100,000 population - a rate more than 80% higher than the states with low firearm-death rates.

    In my previous post, I showed that as state gun laws become "friendlier" in the eyes of gun rights advocates, firearm-related death rates increase. Now I show that the incidence of violent crime in those gun rights-friendly states is significantly higher than in states with far less "friendly" gun laws.

    What I have NOT shown is evidence to support your claim that "gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions." Please provide links to the specific pages within the fbi.gov site that support your claim.

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @Bill_Coley said:

    Reasonably confident that you would not offer links to specific data that support your claim (and you didn't, even though I asked for them twice) I did some research on my own. The data I found - by coincidence, using the "Crime Data Explorer" link provided on the home page to which you offered a link - do not support your claim.

    According to the FBI, in 2017, the states with the ten lowest firearm-related per capita death rates (referenced in one of my previous posts) averaged 277 "incidents" of "violent crime" per 100,000 population, while the states with the ten HIGHEST firearm-related death rates averaged 508 such "incidents" per 100,000 population - a rate more than 80% higher than the states with low firearm-death rates.

    In my previous post, I showed that as state gun laws become "friendlier" in the eyes of gun rights advocates, firearm-related death rates increase. Now I show that the incidence of violent crime in those gun rights-friendly states is significantly higher than in states with far less "friendly" gun laws.

    What I have NOT shown is evidence to support your claim that "gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions." Please provide links to the specific pages within the fbi.gov site that support your claim.

    Take out the per capita. Just look at crime in general.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,142

    @reformed said:

    Take out the per capita. Just look at crime in general.

    For the third time, you offer no links to specific data.

    It's not obviously not fair to compare the number of crimes committed in California among its 39 million residents, to the number of crimes committed in Wyoming among its 580,000 residents. OF COURSE there will be more total crimes in state with 65 times more people, even if its crime rate is actually lower. The ONLY thing "per capita" stats do is allow direct comparison between states of differing populations.

    So for the fourth time I ask you for links to the specific FBI data you used as the basis of your claim that "gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions."

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    It's a beautiful thing that Israel comes to the aid and comfort of her people after such an ugly tragedy in America. To kill a Jew anywhere, all Jews hurt and a nation mourns. Let's suspend with hatred and be better people. :'( CM

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 1,142

    -- A CONTINUATION OF THIS DISCUSSION, WITH ASSISTANCE FROM ANOTHER THREAD --

    @reformed said:
    I gave you the link Bill.

    No, you didn't.

    First, you gave me "fbi.gov." How many thousands of pages of data are at the link? I asked you for links to the SPECIFIC PAGES within the fbi site that supported your claim.

    You then gave me https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ucr, another portal for access to thousands of pages of data. I asked you for links to the SPECIFIC PAGES that you believe support your claim.

    Even better, in my post, I used data from the fbi site to make a strong case that your claim is false, a case you have not even mentioned, let alone rebutted.

    I gave you the link, and you are off-topic.

    No, you didn't give me the link. I asked for, but you did not provide, links to the SPECIFIC PAGES that you believe support your claim.

    And I concluded my previous post by asking you to provide those links to SPECIFIC PAGES "in the appropriate thread, of course," so I was not "off topic."

    For THE SIXTH TIME I ask you for links to the SPECIFIC PAGES within the fbi.gov site which in your view support your claim that "gun violence is less prevalent in places that have FEWER gun restrictions."

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    Where is CD's expression of sympathy for the Jews killed on the Sabbath? Do we not care? Jews are part of America too. Why the silence? Their temple has been desecrated with hatred and bloodshed. We hurt with and for them. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:

    Where is CD's expression of sympathy for the Jews killed on the Sabbath? Do we not care? Jews are part of America too. Why the silence? Their temple has been desecrated with hatred and bloodshed. We hurt with and for them. CM

    Because people like you politicize the expressions of sympathy as evidenced by your OP.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    Where is CD's expression of sympathy for the Jews killed on the Sabbath? Do we not care? Jews are part of America too. Why the silence? Their temple has been desecrated with hatred and bloodshed. We hurt with and for them. CM

    Because people like you politicize the expressions of sympathy as evidenced by your OP.

    I find your remarks cold (and the absent voices of others) the day Jews bury their dead. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    Where is CD's expression of sympathy for the Jews killed on the Sabbath? Do we not care? Jews are part of America too. Why the silence? Their temple has been desecrated with hatred and bloodshed. We hurt with and for them. CM

    Because people like you politicize the expressions of sympathy as evidenced by your OP.

    I find your remarks cold (and the absent voices of others) the day Jews bury their dead. CM

    You asked why there was nothing on CD, I told you why. YOU are the problem.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    Where is CD's expression of sympathy for the Jews killed on the Sabbath? Do we not care? Jews are part of America too. Why the silence? Their temple has been desecrated with hatred and bloodshed. We hurt with and for them. CM

    Because people like you politicize the expressions of sympathy as evidenced by your OP.

    I find your remarks cold (and the absent voices of others) the day Jews bury their dead. CM

    You asked why there was nothing on CD, I told you why. YOU are the problem.

    So, this is how you justify dismissing the lost in the Jewish Community? This is a new low, even for you. I am extremely disappointed. :'( CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    Where is CD's expression of sympathy for the Jews killed on the Sabbath? Do we not care? Jews are part of America too. Why the silence? Their temple has been desecrated with hatred and bloodshed. We hurt with and for them. CM

    Because people like you politicize the expressions of sympathy as evidenced by your OP.

    I find your remarks cold (and the absent voices of others) the day Jews bury their dead. CM

    You asked why there was nothing on CD, I told you why. YOU are the problem.

    So, this is how you justify dismissing the lost in the Jewish Community? This is a new low, even for you. I am extremely disappointed. :'( CM

    I haven't dismissed anything. I just don't share condolences/grief on this site. That doesn't mean I don't do it elsewhere. What a stupid comment.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @reformed said:

    I haven't dismissed anything. I just don't share condolences/grief on this site. That doesn't mean I don't do it elsewhere. What a stupid comment.

    Oh, what language! No need for this. I am concern that you allowed your disagreement with me, to keep you from doing the Christian thing in a time of loss. What are you becoming Reformed? Then again, on second thought, who wants grudging sympathy? :/ CM

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    Reformed, I AM SORRY! You appear not to have it in you. Don't bother. CM

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