Pope Francis, The Gatekeeper Of Sex-Abuse Cases And Pedophile Priests?

C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440
edited October 21 in News & Current Events

Pope Francis’ Handling of Sex-Abuse Cases Fractures a Catholic Stronghold

The pope’s keen instincts as a communicator have abandoned him at crucial moments, especially in Chile, which is no longer dominated by the church

Please read the full article below By Francis X. Rocca and Ryan Dube Oct. 19, 2018, 11:58 a.m. ET--- See the bold sections for the highlight for limited readers. CM

VATICAN CITY—Pope Francis took charge of the Catholic Church promising a new style of leadership that would make the church more open, candid and dedicated to the vulnerable. His response to the long-running clerical abuse scandal is undermining those goals.

The pope has dismissed coverup allegations from abuse victims and wavered on promised disciplinary reforms. He has struggled to demonstrate a sense of urgency in addressing clerical abuse and has drawn complaints of inconsistency and inaction.

Nowhere has the pope tripped more than in Chile, which once had one of the highest percentages of Catholics in Latin America. Allegations there involve 167 Catholic officials and 178 victims so far. Prosecutors recently raided church buildings, seized documents and arrested a prominent priest, putting the abuse scandal front and center in the pope’s native region.

“The future of the church is in play here,” said Juan Pablo Hermosilla, a Santiago lawyer who represents sex-abuse victims. “What is happening in Chile is very important for the region, and what happens in Latin America is going to be very important for the church.”

Under Pope Francis, Chile is for the first time no longer a majority-Catholic nation. The declining support comes as the Catholic Church vies with evangelical churches across Latin America, the church’s stronghold.

The sex-abuse crisis ... has reignited with a vengeance over a series of new revelations. More than 300 priests in Pennsylvania were accused of molesting more than 1,000 children over decades, in an August grand-jury report that triggered investigations in other states, as well as by the Justice Department.

Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, a former Vatican envoy to the U.S., accused the pope in August of disregarding disciplinary measures imposed on former Cardinal Theodore McCarrick for sexual misconduct and making him an important adviser on bishop appointments in the U.S. The Vatican this month promised an inquiry.

Pope Francis has called a global meeting of bishops, scheduled for four days in February, to discuss clerical sexual abuse.

Greg Burke, the Vatican spokesman, said Pope Francis has made “combating sex abuse by clergy a priority of his pontificate,” by denouncing abuse, taking the advice of victims and furthering efforts to report abusive priests to the police and remove them from ministry.

Defenders of Pope Francis say criticism of him is unfair because most of the cases now coming to light happened long ago. Some say the abuse scandal has been exploited by people who oppose the pope’s calls for expansive immigration policies, his warnings about economic inequality and global warming as well as his leniency on divorce.

The pope has long cast himself as a tribune of the people against oppressive elites, clerical and secular...as a communicator have abandoned him at crucial moments on abuse.

In an open letter this summer to the world’s Catholic faithful, the pope suggested that everyone in the church shared responsibility.

Last Friday, Pope Francis accepted the resignation of Cardinal Donald Wuerl of Washington, D.C., following criticism of the cardinal’s handling of sex-abuse cases during his tenure as bishop of Pittsburgh. The pope also praised the cardinal’s leadership.

“He’s been ambivalent, muddled on sex abuse. It’s not been at the top of his priority list, ever,” said Paul Vallely, a British journalist and author of “Pope Francis: The Struggle for the Soul of Catholicism,” a biography.

Since 2001, church law has required bishops to inform the Vatican about any report of sex abuse of a minor “which has at least a semblance of truth.” As archbishop of Buenos Aires from 1998 to 2013, the future pope referred just two cases to the Vatican, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Among U.S. Catholics, ...Pope Francis ... handling the abuse scandal compared with 62% who said he was doing an only fair or poor job, a recent Pew Research survey found. That compared with 55% who viewed him positively on the issue in 2015.

“I think very few people have faith that the Catholic Church is taking care of this problem,” said Anne Barrett Doyle of BishopAccountability.org, a U.S. organization that tracks abuse cases internationally.

Scandal spreads

Chile became a hot-button issue in January, when the pope’s trip there drew attention to victims who had accused Bishop Juan Barros of covering up for an abusive priest in the 1980s. During his visit, the pope said the allegations against the bishop, who is under criminal investigation in another case, were slanderous.

Bishop Barros’s lawyer, German Ovalle, says the bishop is “absolutely innocent” of the accusations.

Cardinal Sean O’Malley of Boston, a top papal adviser with a strong record on combating sex abuse in the U.S., publicly rebuked the pope for causing pain to abuse victims by dismissing their claims. The pope apologized but repeated the charge of slander on his flight back to Rome.

The pope also said the Chilean accusers had never approached him with their abuse complaints. Two weeks later, it was revealed that Cardinal O’Malley had given the pope a detailed letter from one victim more than two years earlier.

Pope Francis in April acknowledged “grave errors,” in a letter to the bishops of Chile, following a Vatican investigation of Bishop Barros. Rather than putting the bishop on trial under church law, he accepted his resignation.

Altogether, the pope has accepted the resignations of seven bishops in Chile and defrocked several prominent priests.

The criminal investigation in Chile has rocked the nation’s chapter of the Marists, a Catholic religious order that runs 12 schools there. Victims accuse church officials at some of the schools of preying on boys over decades.

“There was a system of impunity that allowed this to happen,” said Emiliano Arias, a prosecutor who led a raid on church offices in four cities in September. “I’m certain there are more cases.”

Gonzalo Dezerega, a 53-year-old businessman in Santiago, said he has debilitating flashbacks of being sexually abused as a 10-year-old boy at a school run by the Marists. After each incident, Mr. Dezerega said, his abuser would kneel and pray, calling the child a sinner but assuring him he was forgiven by God. The sins, the boy was told, were to be kept secret.

  • “I remember crying, asking the Lord, ‘Why me, why was this happening to me, God?’” said Mr. Dezerega, who only recently told his family.

Gonzalo Dezerega visits the sacristy of a Marist-run school in Santiago, Chile, a room where he said he was sexually abused as a boy.

  • Gonzalo Dezerega visits the sacristy of a Marist-run school in Santiago, Chile, a room where he said he was sexually abused as a boy.
  • Eneas Espinoza said he was abused in the 1970s at the Alonso de Ercilla Institute, a Marist-run school in downtown Santiago. Prosecutor Raúl Guzmán has identified 26 suspects and 40 victims in cases dating from 1968 to 2016.

  • Mr. Espinoza, 45 years old, recalled his school as hell. A Marist brother from Spain would take him out of class and sexually abuse him, Mr. Espinoza said. Afterward, the brother would instruct the 6-year-old boy to brush his teeth.

    • As an adult, Mr. Espinoza said, he associated brushing with abuse and avoided it, eventually losing most of his teeth.

In September, a canonical probe conducted by the Vatican concluded that the abuse accusations at the Marist schools were credible. The congregation said two of its members have confessed. One prominent cleric, who has denied abuse allegations, was among those defrocked by Pope Francis.

A representative for Chile’s branch of the Marist order said the schools now have policies to prevent abuse and were “absolutely safe” for children.

Polls show the scandals have a role in Chileans falling away from the Catholic Church. In August, 46% of respondents identified as Catholic, pollster Cadem found, compared with 63% in 2017; about three-quarters of Chile’s population in the 1990s identified as Catholic. The poll also found 96% of Chileans believe the church covered up or protected clergy accused of sexual abuse.

  • Eduardo Rozas, 54, said he was a young abuse victim at one of Chile’s Marist-run schools.
  • Isaac Givovich, 38, said he was sexually abused when he was 6 years old by a Marist brother in Santiago.

“The church knows better than anyone that it has been wrong,” President Sebastian Piñera said at a Mass last month to mark Chile’s independence day.

In the beginning

In 2013, when Pope Benedict XVI became the first pontiff to resign in nearly six centuries, the world’s cardinals gathered in Rome to choose a successor who would drive through changes after several corruption and mismanagement scandals. Addressing the festering clerical sex-abuse crisis was also seen as urgent, particularly in the English-speaking world.

From the moment the new pope stepped out onto the loggia of St. Peter’s on the evening of March 13, attention instead centered on Pope Francis as the first pope from Latin America—a leader with a disarmingly informal style who toned down the teachings on sexual and medical ethics identified with his predecessor to focus on poverty, migration and the environment.

The new pope said little of the sex-abuse crisis during his first year. He voiced impatience with critics on the subject, telling an interviewer in early 2014: “The Catholic Church is perhaps the only public institution to have acted with transparency and responsibility. No one else has done more. And yet the church is the only one attacked.”

Some people say the pope has had a blind spot about clerical sex abuse since he was Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, in his country of Argentina.

“In my diocese it never happened to me,” then-Cardinal Bergoglio said in a book-length interview published in 2010, referring to cases of clerical pedophilia. In another book, he suggested his archdiocese successfully filtered out candidates for the priesthood who might abuse children.

When victims of abuse went public in Argentina, he refused to meet them. In 2006, as head of the Argentine bishops conference, he denounced what he called a media campaign against the Rev. Julio Grassi, founder of a well-known orphanage who was accused of abusing children under his care. Father Grassi was eventually sentenced to 15 years in prison, a verdict upheld last year by Argentina’s highest court.

In March 2014,** the pope established an advisory panel on child protection, at the urging of Cardinal O’Malley of Boston. The panel included two prominent abuse victims-turned-advocates**, which raised hopes of greater influence from laypeople. The panel proposed a special tribunal for trying bishops accused of covering up or neglecting abuse by priests.

**The pope accepted the recommendation and the Vatican announced the decision in 2015. The tribunal wasn’t set up. Instead, the pope amended church law the following year to specify that bishops’ negligence in abuse cases was grounds for dismissal.

The pope’s change of mind was a disappointment for Marie Collins**, a well-known victim of clerical sex abuse who served on the advisory panel. She resigned last year, complaining of Vatican inaction, and was joined by Peter Saunders, the other panel member who had been an abuse victim.

The pope told reporters he had spoken with Ms. Collins and heard her concerns. Ms. Collins said they had no such conversation.

“He has done nothing really to give confidence back to people that the church has a grip on this issue,” Ms. Collins said. “He’s made these statements about zero tolerance and then not operated zero tolerance.”

Mr. Dezerega, the Chilean businessman who was abused as a boy, ... “We want a new and clean church,” he said, “without criminals.”
************ ************** *************** ************ ******
On the face of this article, the sin, sexual abuse, crime, and coverup continues under the watchful eye of this Pope (Francis). I will hold my piece to hear first from my fellow CD Users. This is horrendous! Please read or re-read my other postings on this subject matter. In view of this article, what says ye? CM

PS. Longtime crimes call for a long article. Take the time to read about it.

Post edited by C_M_ on

Comments

  • GaoLuGaoLu Posts: 1,367
    edited October 21

    No thanks.

    Philippians 4:8
    Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

    Post edited by GaoLu on
  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @GaoLu said:
    No thanks.

    Are you saying "No thanks" to the truth, knowledge of crimes committed against children, or to justice for the victims and families? What are you saying no thanks too? No thanks to helping sound the alarm that a place of trust (church) are violating children in religious schools? Or, are you saying, no thanks to this article, which so happened to includes non-Americans? Is it these people you are willing to turn your eyes and justice away? Clearly, what and why are you turning your back them? Souls are crying out for help and justice.

    I find it appalling for you say you're not interested situation that this article conveys when you are so willing to discuss a "white" woman claiming American Indian heritage. What happened to the teacher, humanitarian, truth speaker and the lover of children.

    GaoLu, are you so affiliated and committed to the Catholic Church with such affinity that you have become blind to the truth, to sin, and her exposed crimes?

    Oh, GaoLu, where are you, I once knew?

    Philippians 4:8
    Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

    Is it your intentions to apply the above text to ignore the children, the situation, the crime, or the sins of the RCC? Are you being fair to the text? Paul wrote this letter to the Philippians to turn a blind eye to the RCC or the church (of his day) gross misdeeds? GaoLu, I expect better from you.

    Your attitude seems to be conveying, like Vegas, what happened in any RCC building or schools should stay there. If so, I find this view shameful, destructive and unChristian. Whatever you do, GaoLu; remember, this situation is bigger than "me and you". CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,187

    Something I don't quite understand is the fact that these whole sex abuse cases are concentrating solely and exclusively on the Roman Church ... as if there were not any people with the same or similar problems / sins in other denominations as well. Are Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Charismatics just "without sin" in these matters and there is no sexual abuse to be found in those institutions?? What about all the pedophile circles in political and other social groups ... do they not exist?

    If they do exist, why is one group singled out and the others are all covered up by politics and main stream media?

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @Wolfgang said:
    Something I don't quite understand is the fact that these whole sex abuse cases are concentrating solely and exclusively on the Roman Church ... as if there were not any people with the same or similar problems / sins in other denominations as well. Are Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Charismatics just "without sin" in these matters and there is no sexual abuse to be found in those institutions?? What about all the pedophile circles in political and other social groups ... do they not exist?

    At first, I would say you have a right to your inquiry.
    Secondly, this is a distraction to the principle institution at hand.
    Thirdly, Wolfgang, If you promise to read all my other posts on the topic, I will not repeat it here. The answers to your questions are there. I want to avoid being accused of "smearing" the RCC name and people's criminal behaviors "all over CD". After you have read them, then ask the question again, if you're not satisfied.
    Fourthly, what do you think about what is known and reported, even in your home country of Germany? They (RCC) are raping your boys and girls too. In fact, the RCC has been molesting children, for decades, around the world, as though it's the new norm of religious past time.

    If they do exist, why is one group singled out and the others are all covered up by politics and mainstream media?

    Pointing fingers at others don't lessen the RCC sin, shame, criminal behavior, and cover-ups. This is not a game or legal technical Houdinism ( Houdini was a Hungarian-born American illusionist and stunt performer). The Catholic Priest's life of debauchery and religious paraphernalia are as bad as they sound and then some. Sad, Sad, Sad! :'( CM

  • WolfgangWolfgang Posts: 1,187

    @C_M_ said:
    Fourthly, what do you think about what is known and reported, even in your home country of Germany?

    Same over here .... do't hear or read a word about sexual abuse in other institutions but lots of news all over the place about the RCC scandals.

    They (RCC) are raping your boys and girls too. In fact, the RCC has been molesting children, for decades, around the world, as though it's the new norm of religious past time.

    I am not saying that there haven't been such scandals and crimes, nor trying to excuse any of the RCC known matters.

    I just have a hard time with the totally one sided main stream media campaign only against the RCC institution. Are other institutions all that innocent and clean and sexual abuse happens only in the RCC ? I don't think so!

    If they do exist, why is one group singled out and the others are all covered up by politics and mainstream media?

    Pointing fingers at others don't lessen the RCC sin, shame, criminal behavior, and cover-ups. This is not a game or legal technical Houdinism ( Houdini was a Hungarian-born American illusionist and stunt performer). The Catholic Priest's life of debauchery and religious paraphernalia are as bad as they sound and then some. Sad, Sad, Sad! :'( CM

    And what about the same debauchery and religious paraphernalia in other religious circles and denominations?

  • GaoLuGaoLu Posts: 1,367

    @C_M_ said:

    @GaoLu said:
    No thanks.


    Are you saying "No thanks" to the truth, knowledge of crimes committed against children, or to justice for the victims and families? What are you saying no thanks too?

    I am all too immersed in working with the horrific outcomes of the world of trafficking and dealing with people wounded by the things you mention. I just yesterday finished several long days with about a couple hundred people concerning these very issues. Later today and tomorrow and months to come we will be dealing with follow-up. I won't give details here.

    Here is what I am saying NO THANKS to:

    1. You have an ongoing morbid, impure fascination with these things, a topic which I won't engage with you. I work with people troubled by such things and am acquainted with the topography.
    2. You and I also know of more personal issues on this matter which I won't bring up here. I suggest you don't gamble with that issue overmuch.
    3. You clearly haven't a clue what you talk about and the media trash you reference is useless.

    FYI, I am only scanning such messages from you and will not read trash.

    Let me share again:

    Philippians 4:8
    Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    Where was this text (Philippians 4:8) when the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) Priests were plotting, raping, covering up (with hush payments), around the world for so many decades?

    Yes, God wants us to fill the mind with great thoughts, pure thoughts. He wants us to meditate upon His love and mercy, to study His wonderful work in the great plan of redemption. This is the kind of tactic that turns people off from the church and the Bible. GaoLu you have to present a better balance of the Word for it to make sense to the World. The RCC wouldn't identify the priests (in any real way), take global action to warn or heal the vast number of victims and families of their complicit rein of sexual terror upon humanity.

    Your current attitude of this matter makes one question your character quality and compassion for the humanity you claim to care so much. You can't be a part of the RCC and its dirty behavior and claim Christ as Lord. Your attitude and the Church's complicity is a stench in the nostrils of God. CM

    @Wolfgang said:

    I just have a hard time with the totally one-sided mainstream media campaign only against the RCC institution. Are other institutions all that innocent and clean and sexual abuse happens only in the RCC? I don't think so!

    And what about the same debauchery and religious paraphernalia in other religious circles and denominations?

    Wolfgang, it clearly shows that you have not read my other posts on this topic. Your response wouldn't have been what they are above.

    My brother, I assure you there's no Worldwide Media Conspiracy against the Roman Catholic Church. If anything, could it possibly be the other way around? Why has this Worldwide Institution been able to damage so many people, so many places, and for so long? This appears to me to be some type of conspiracy. When viewed in its worldwide context, why so little persecution of the RCC and the arm of pedophile priests with such criminal filthiness of behavior? At best, one wonders. CM

  • GaoLuGaoLu Posts: 1,367
    edited October 22

    @C_M_ said: [blah balah blah]

    You dismissed the point and went off on some tangent--probably a red herring due to a fearful reaction. So let me emphasize again, back on topic, the answer to your question:

    Here is what I am saying NO THANKS to:

    1. You have an ongoing morbid, impure fascination with these things, a topic which I won't engage with you. I work with people troubled by such things and am acquainted with the topography.

    2. You and I also know of your more personal issues on this matter which I won't bring up here. I suggest you don't gamble with that issue overmuch.

    3. You clearly haven't a clue what you talk about and the media trash you reference is useless.

    Note: Posts such as yours are exactly the same corrupt behavior and style we saw regularly on the old forums from Bill_Coley. Not saying anything about that...draw your own conclusions.

    Philippians 4:8
    Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.


    I am actively engaged today doing something about the problem. We can see from points 1-3 above what you are doing. You can do better, although I suggest getting help for a long time first.

    Post edited by GaoLu on
  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    Wow! GaoLu, what an outburst! You reminded me of "Justice B. Kavanaugh's", recent testimony. What were you defending? What caused such emotional output? There are other times, days and topics to post. A simple, CM, you misunderstood my point, let me clarify, would have been sufficient. We were not off topic. If anything, you're getting off topic. What you were, supposedly, saying "no thanks" to, was not what I was offering. This is a strawman of your makings. Your three points projected on me are not what I am doing. Oh, yes, I am seeking to do better in my exchanges.

    What I find to be most contradictory is your imposed three points and the use of Philippians 4:8, at the same time. Do your three points support the text you cited? Surely, this was not Paul intended usage. Your accusations, threats, and misrepresentations are somewhat over the top, even for you. It would be good for you to take an introspection into your soul. You, Sir, may have shown more of yourself than you may be aware of or intended too. "People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." Do you want to expose your dark side in these forums? Even if you want too, may it be another thread, another place and on another day?

    GaoLu, why you seem to take this topic so personal? Do you have some baggage on one side of this issue? Please, note a few things in this thread:

    1. It's opened to CD Users.
    2. No one was forcing you to respond or to participate.
    3. We're in the process of receiving input from as requested in the OP.
    4. You have and are not under any obligation to contribute or to participate in this thread. In addition, you're not required to tell us you're not contributing.
    5. This self-bullying, self-obligation, self-importance, and greater insights into another than the person themselves are much too revelation of your internal self.
    6. All of your literary snaring like a chained-up pit bull will not deter me from discussing a current event in the news, a crime against children and humanity. Like it not, a child CANNOT consent to sexual relations with an adult and God knows, not with an RCC Priest.
    7. No, it's not "media trash". GaoLu, you are wrong!
    8. No, my references are "useless". GaoLu, you are wrong!
    9. I do know what I am "talking about". GaoLu, you are wrong!

    You are wrong in your attack on me. Wrong about your assessment of the situation and therefore, wrong in your apparent conclusion.

    Why do you get so upset what is clearly a sin, shame and a crime by one of the world's largest "Christian" bodies in the world? Yes, there are pedophile priests in the RCC. This can and has been proven independent of me. If wanting to protect, help, healing, and justice for thousands of victims raped, molested, married impregnated girls and divorce them after birth is "ongoing morbid" "impure fascination", so be it. I wear your mocking as a badge of honor.

    I think you know who has "impure fascination". Don't be complicit! Stand with the children and condemn an institution that would molest, rape, and rob the most vulnerable of a society of their innocence and childhood. This is one of the most damnable crimes in a society. So, no more payouts, coverups, or head-turning, not even by the Pope.

    I invite you to reassess your attitude and position, stand against or remove yourself from an institution that prey and not pray on children. What are you going to do, GaoLu? CM

    • PS. Whatever issues you have with Bill_Coley "in the old forums", please take it up with him elsewhere and "draw your own conclusions". Not here, at least. CM
  • GaoLuGaoLu Posts: 1,367
    edited October 22

    @C_M_ said:
    Wow! GaoLu, what an outburst! You reminded me of "Justice B. Kavanaugh's", recent testimony. What were you defending? What caused such emotional output? There are other times, days and topics to post. A simple, CM, you misunderstood my point, let me clarify, would have been sufficient. We were not off topic. If anything, you're getting off topic. What you were, supposedly, saying "no thanks" to, was not what I was offering. This is a strawman of your makings.

    What I said "No Thanks" to was to fill my mind with the kind of sexual trash in which you seem perpetually to spout on forums. Exactly like your Siamese twin Bill_Coley has had a habit of doing. You can do as you choose on forums, and I can bring to light that your doing so reveals both a serious root heart issue and a harvest-wagon load of bad fruit.

    Your three points projected on me are not what I am doing. Oh, yes, I am seeking to do better in my exchanges.

    Regarding the content of the 3 point: You know better. I know better. You are betting I won't make an issue of #2 in public--and you are right. Enough on that.

    What I find to be most contradictory is your imposed three points and the use of Philippians 4:8, at the same time. Do your three points support the text you cited?

    Indeed. Very few of your posts pass that Php 4:8 test. I have seen a few that do. Thank you for those. Php 4: specifically addresses each of the 3 points--in short:

    1. [Your] impure fascination with [filthy sexual] things (does your wife or any accountability partner approve of your writing those posts?)
    2. your more personal issues [on filthy sexual matters]... (I will leave this alone for good reason--but you know in your heart to what I refer)
    3. You clearly haven't a clue (you perpetually spout off on these forums with little knowledge of what you accuse or claim--such behavior is foolish).

    In summary, to answer your question with support listed above--Yes. The three points support exactly how Php 4:8 directly applies.

    Now...I invite you to consider passing your posts through Php 4:8 as a test--honestly. Neither of us will always get it all right. I am working on that too. The OP in this thread fails the Php 4:8 test.

    Do you want to expose your dark side in these forums? Even if you want too, may it be another thread, another place and on another day?

    I am interested in addressing the problem with the topic in your thread, and far more, the problems of the heart that produce it.

    GaoLu, why you seem to take this topic so personal? Do you have some baggage on one side of this issue? Please, note a few things in this thread:

    I do have a lot of personal baggage on this matter.

    I have seen the worst and presently work in the trenches protecting children and adults and helping sinners find freedom. Maybe if you can deal with the trash in your life and get a church congregation and 3 trusted older Godly people to recommend you as morally whole and verify that you are long-term free of such bondage, I would invite you to come help with the work.

    You are wrong in your attack on me. Wrong about your assessment of the situation and therefore, wrong in your apparent conclusion.

    I offer no conclusions. I am deeply sorry that you feel attacked. I am asking you to consider that your posts are exceedingly inappropriate and suggest that you get accountability and counseling for that.

    Why do you get so upset what is clearly a sin, shame and a crime by one of the world's largest "Christian" bodies in the world?....

    I presume (??) you mean why do I not get upset. If so, then rest assured I do get upset. I cry out to God and weep with these people. I counsel them and work with them through legal processes and moral processes. None of that is your business, but i say enough to validate that I do care deeply. A large part of my life for the last 21 years has been in the trenches dealing with tough stuff including this gut-wrenching subject.

    I find your insensitive blaring on topics about which you know nothing (pure) to be extremely offensive and harmful. They are fully indicative of the kind of person struggling with these issues--for a list of reasons any counselor and many lay people find obvious.

    Furthermore,...no, if you want to go deeper we can, but this forum isn't the place. That is the whole point of my posts in this thread.

    I invite you to reassess your attitude and position, stand against or remove yourself from an institution that prey and not pray on children. What are you going to do, GaoLu? CM

    Reassessing is always good. Thanks for that good counsel. What will I do?

    I live in the trenches doing something about such problems in the world. I don't stand against Christians as you suggest, especially against broken Christians. With all my faults, I stand for Jesus and invite sinners to hope, healing, light and salvation--you too C_M_.

    And should God call you to actually help lift the burden, come....help. Until then...

    1. Can you honestly say that God called you to write this OP as it is written?
    2. Did you pray about it before you posted?
    3. Do you believe it glorifies God?
    • PS. Whatever issues you have with Bill_Coley "in the old forums", please take it up with him elsewhere and "draw your own conclusions". Not here, at least. CM

    Bill_Coley is alive and well and relevant on these forums. The practice of "shouting" sexual filth on Christian forums was prevalent by Bill there and then is paralleled almost exactly here and now. So, yes. As much as you might like to break the chain of the obvious, here is the right place to deal with both you and Bill who have the same immoral behavior on the same sensitive sexual topics.

    Post edited by GaoLu on
  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    GaoLu,
    Why do you throw up so much mire and dirt to distract from the real issues at hand? You missed the point.

    1. Primarily: The RCC Crime Empire
    2. Secondarily: Your trolling, fear, misusing of the biblical text and your poorly masked anger.

    I wasn't attacking you in any way. I was addressing the sick priests and their Leader, in covering up crimes against humanity. However, if you have been molested or raped by someone in this institution, my heart goes out to you. I know you don't want to hear it, but it's true! Your little humanitarian-work will not be able to appease your troubled conscience in trying clean up this institution's cesspool of sin, crime, and filth. Your efforts are appreciated, but it's going to take Divine intervention and International law Enforcement.

    The RCC has become a master of distraction, delay, footdragging, cover-ups and the use of biblical texts to keep its victims quiet. When I saw your vigorous defense (albeit, ineffective) in your attempt at accusing me having an "ongoing morbid, impure fascination", with the RCC sex crimes, I knew then, you were either one of the many victims or out of the closet CD Trolls. If it's the former, I send you an electronic hug and invite you to join me and others in stopping this silent crime-spree. If it's the latter, I pity you, for being complicit in the crimes of the RCC in its degradation of humanity.

    GaoLu, truly there is help for you and others. You're not alone. I know you like your church and, probably, even the person who hurt you. It's not your fault. It may have been many years; yet, it may feel like yesterday. I am not a member of the RCC; educated, in any of its schools/seminaries or share many of doctrinal beliefs, but I do share the human-spirit, rights, and decency. I firmly believe that a child can never consent to sexual relations with an adult, especially a priest. It's always wrong. Any of its leaders have the knowledge, cover it up, re-assign (Cardinals/Priests), or pay out money to you or others, to keep it a secret are not nice people. They are just as bad. You or any other may send me a PM at this point forward, to redress your hurt, shame, and pain. Your e-ink has not been in vain. It's time to heal. CM

  • GaoLuGaoLu Posts: 1,367

    Let's deal with this if you are ready:

    1. [Your] impure fascination with [filthy sexual] things (does your wife or any accountability partner approve of your writing those posts?)

    2. Your more personal issues [on filthy sexual matters]... (I will leave this alone for good reason--but you know in your heart to what I refer)

    3. You clearly haven't a clue (you perpetually spout off on these forums with little knowledge of what you accuse or claim--such behavior is foolish).

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440
    edited October 24

    GaoLu,
    Putting your head in the sand and applying the tactics of Adolf Hitler, a.k.a. Der Führer (German: “The Leader”): “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed”, is not going to work. This just prolongs your lack of peace and unrest. You need to free yourself if you know yourself to be a victim or predator. It may take time, but God can heal all wounds. GoaLu, you can trust God.

    Pointing fingers at me and other religious bodies are not the way forward. Even if you were able to prove such, if you think you can, and you can not! Accusing me of sexual misdeed is not a "red herring", but a blatant lie! Why further belittle yourself in these forums to distract from a light being shine on an International Den Of Sexual Misdeeds and against children with its Pious Gatekeeper. According to your own understanding of the Christian standard of living, what happened to Philippians 4:8?

    GaoLu said: "Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things".

    • Do this text applies only to me?
    • Are you being hypocritical?
    • Is the verse is taken out of context?
    • This is a misuse of the biblical text on me, possibly, to cover your seeming helplessness, anger, hurt, and disappointment with yourself or your church?

    GaoLu, you can't have your cake and eat it too!

    Again, my fight is not with you, but with the real criminal elements (priests in black robes in the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) schools, churches, confessionals, and seminaries). Stop fighting me and trying to smear my name of sins and crimes the Pope has admitted happened. In addition, there is further proof of settlements paid out $26 million recently in Brooklyn, NY), from the RCC's own investigation and documented in a court of law (See Pennsylvania). The sad truth is that cases are still being investigated, priests are yet to be identified, Priests, yet to be jailed, and more legal settlements will be paid.

    I hope in your most recent "I am very very sorry" thread, includes your admission that you're pretending you have knowledge or information on me:

    GaoLu, said: "Your more personal issues [on filthy sexual matters]... (I will leave this alone for good reason--but you know in your heart to what I refer)"

    You don't have a scintilla of knowledge or information in any form against me with behavior like the Priests have been identified and RCC paid hush money and legal settlement. This is purely a smear conceived in your mind as a self-disclosed Troll of CD. No, I am NOT upset or afraid, but petty the depth you have reached, a new low.

    GaoLu, you have really sunk in my eyes as a spiritual and influential person for righteousness. All because of your disappointment to see the RCC in the mirror of law, morality, criminal act, predator-priests and the need for many to be identified, prosecuted and jailed.

    You clearly know that the ones with the "impure fascination with [filthy sexual] things". They are those within the bowels of RCC among the Cardinals and Priests are overseen by Pope Francis. This is not of my creation of my own doing. No among of attempting to smear, distractions, and insinuation will change the facts.

    You asked:

    GaoLu, said: "does your wife or any accountability partner approve of your writing those posts"?

    I'm sorry to say, GaoLu, I don't share your deficiency and/or immaturity that requires my "wife" or "accountability partner" to "approve" what I post on the CD Forums. It's obvious that you have missed clearing your posts by your wife and/or "any accountability partner".

    I am sure your wife didn't encourage you to falsely accuse me and promotes covering a church that systemically rapes and molests children as young as 3-13 yrs. You wife can't and wouldn't approve any man or institution that destroy children and families. It appears that you need closer supervision. There is nothing to be ashamed about. My accountability is the spirit within. The truth of the matter, the Word, and justice for the innocence and the oppressed.

    So, GaoLu, stop your nonsense-behavior and disagree like a man, a Christian (professed), and a responsible user of CD. CM

    Post edited by C_M_ on
  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    To GaoLu's chagrin, here is more proof of what I spoke of in my past posts. You can't make this stuff up:

    Whistleblower says bishop knew of sexual abuse allegations, but did nothing

    For the first time on television, the former executive assistant to Buffalo's Bishop

    Richard Malone explains why she decided to speak out against the bishop for not taking action against priests accused of sexual abuse

    2018 Oct 28-- CORRESPONDENT, Bill Whitaker

    The Roman Catholic Church is facing its biggest crisis in the United States since the Boston sex abuse scandal 16 years ago. 13 states are now investigating whether abuse was concealed by church leaders, including bishops who head each diocese. We have learned one place under scrutiny by federal investigators is Buffalo, New York. In August, information about dozens of accused priests was leaked from the diocesan secret archive. What it revealed, infuriated many of Buffalo's 600,000 Catholics. Tonight, you will hear from a priest who will share his direct knowledge about what he has called a cover-up. But first, the anonymous whistleblower who uncovered proof that Bishop Richard Malone withheld the names of dozens of priests accused of abuse.

    "At the end of my life, I'm not going to answer to Bishop Malone. I'm going to answer to God." Until now, Siobhan O'Connor had carefully kept her identity secret.

    Siobhan O'Connor: I had to rely on God even more than I ever have before.

    She is the whistleblower who leaked records from the secret archive of the Diocese of Buffalo. Siobhan O'Connor worked closely with Bishop Richard Malone as his executive assistant for three years. Last week she spoke with the FBI.

    Bill Whitaker: Some people would say that you betrayed Bishop Malone.

    Siobhan O'Connor: I did betray him, and yet I can't apologize for that, because there was a greater good to consider.

    The hundreds of pages Siobhan O'Connor uncovered included personnel files and memos. They revealed that for years Bishop Malone allowed priests accused of sexual assault such as statutory rape and groping to stay on the job.

    Siobhan O'Connor: I love my church, I love our diocese, and I-- I loved him. I-- I genuinely did as my bishop and as my boss.

    Bill Whitaker: So why are you doing this?

    Siobhan O'Connor: The reality of what I saw really left me with no other option. Because at the end of my life, I'm not going to answer to Bishop Malone. I'm going to answer to God.

    At first, she took pictures with her phone. Then she used the copy machine at the bishop's offices. The documents provided an extraordinary window into how the diocese handled abuse.

    Bill Whitaker: And nobody caught on to what you were doing?...

    Watch the clips for yourself.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/whistleblower-says-buffalo-bishop-knew-of-sexual-abuse-allegations-but-did-nothing-60-minutes/

    It's really sad! This is not smearing. It's turning on the lights to warn and protect. CM

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