Waffle House shooting in Tenn-- no "hyperbole"

Waffle House shooting victims ID'd as worker, star athlete, music artist

Last Updated Apr 22, 2018 11:27 PM EDT

Authorities have identified the victims of Sunday's shooting that left four people dead at a Waffle House in Tennessee. They were identified as 29-year-old Taurean C. Sanderlin, 20-year-old Joe R. Perez, 21-year-old DeEbony Groves and 23-year-old Akilah Dasilva.

"Hero" customer wrestled the rifle away from Waffle House shooter--

  1. What that "Black" man did to the shooter is an example of how to disarm a shooter with an AR-15 Rifle. Stop the killing.
  2. All owners of these guns (AR-15s) should be registered and licensed. Some mental evaluation of these owers should be conducted.
  3. All Christians of goodwill need to leave the NRA. Form an organization to help victim's families who experienced loss from guns like AR-15s.
  4. What Christian in his or her right spiritual mind continue to support and endorse the NRA? Of course, how can encourage, endorse and keep silent about putting guns in the classrooms?
  5. GUNS KILLS! BLOOD IS SHED! PEOPLE DIE! FAMILIES ARE SHATTERED! PAIN IS REAL! INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE SLAUGHTERED!

This IS NOT "hyperbole" (exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally) an exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric.

No Christian should own or endorse weapons of war into the hands of those, not of Ceasar's Army. To do so is to share in the outcome of its usage and the lost lives. It's time for Christians to put the Ten-Commandments above the Second Amendment! What say ye? CM

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Comments

  • Dave_LDave_L Posts: 2,130
    edited April 23

    Good article. I wonder how this all plays out in God's providence. I know he says those who take the sword perish by the sword. And could it be the NRA and others taking the sword (so to speak) are not protecting anyone, but bringing God's wrath instead?

    Post edited by Dave_L on
  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @Dave_L said:
    Good article. I wonder how this all plays out in God's providence. I know he says those who take the sword perish by the sword. And could it be the NRA and others taking the sword (so to speak) are not protecting anyone, but bringing God's wrath instead?

    Dave,
    When it comes to the wrath of God, we must be careful to not reduce God to our finite and sinful ways of understanding and thereby dishonors Him by adapting Him to fit our human concepts. This view was stood out particularly in the course and aftermath of the Enlightenment era. On the other hand, the God of the Bible is full of feelings. He cares for His people. He is involved in human history and is affected by human acts. Although reference to Jesus and wrath is rare, "wrath is an integral characteristic of the Jesus of the Gospels" (Mark 3:5; 1:41, 43; Matt.9:30; John 11:33, 38).

    Unfortunately, many people think the wrath of God is just an OT concept there are much in NT that says otherwise. For example:

    • John the Baptist-- Matt. 3:7.
    • Paul-- Rom. 1:18; 2:5, 8; 5:9; 12:19; 13:4, 5; Eph. 2:3; 5:6; Col. 3:6; 1 Thess. 1:10; 2:16; 5:9; Heb. 2:2-3; 10:26-31.
    • John in his Gospel-- John 3:36.
    • Revelation preaches a gospel that includes the proclamation of the wrath of God. [See especially, Rev. 6:16, 17; 11:18; 14:10, 19; 15:1; 16:1; 19:15].

    Nowhere does the New Testament replace God's wrath with His love; instead, it views wrath as an essential and indispensable trait of God; it presents God not only as saving Lord but also as judge who brings with Him the judgment of His wrath.

    The good news of the Bible is not that there is no wrath of God, but that humankind is saved from wrath through faith in Jesus Christ:

    • "But God demonstrates His own love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by his blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him" (Rom. 5:8, 9).
    • Therefore, we "wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come" (1 Thess. 1:10).

    I got off topic a bit. For those who do us harm, we have the assurance: "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord" (Romans 12:19). This is a topic that deserves its own thread, to mine properly. CM

    SOURCES:

    -- G. Stahlin, "The Wrath of Man and the Wrath of God in the New Testament," TDNT, vol. 5, pp. 419-447.

    For a more in-depth discussion of the concept of the wrath of God in the New Testament, see
    -- G. Bornkamnn, Early Christian Experience (New York: Harper and Row, 1969).

    -- G.H.C. MacGregor, "The concept of the Wrath of God in the New Testament," New Testament Studies 7 (1960/1961): 101-109.

  • Dave_LDave_L Posts: 2,130

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Good article. I wonder how this all plays out in God's providence. I know he says those who take the sword perish by the sword. And could it be the NRA and others taking the sword (so to speak) are not protecting anyone, but bringing God's wrath instead?

    Dave,
    When it comes to the wrath of God, we must be careful to not reduce God to our finite and sinful ways of understanding and thereby dishonors Him by adapting Him to fit our human concepts. This view was stood out particularly in the course and aftermath of the Enlightenment era. On the other hand, the God of the Bible is full of feelings. He cares for His people. He is involved in human history and is affected by human acts. Although reference to Jesus and wrath is rare, "wrath is an integral characteristic of the Jesus of the Gospels" (Mark 3:5; 1:41, 43; Matt.9:30; John 11:33, 38).

    Unfortunately, many people think the wrath of God is just an OT concept there are much in NT that says otherwise. For example:

    • John the Baptist-- Matt. 3:7.
    • Paul-- Rom. 1:18; 2:5, 8; 5:9; 12:19; 13:4, 5; Eph. 2:3; 5:6; Col. 3:6; 1 Thess. 1:10; 2:16; 5:9; Heb. 2:2-3; 10:26-31.
    • John in his Gospel-- John 3:36.
    • Revelation preaches a gospel that includes the proclamation of the wrath of God. [See especially, Rev. 6:16, 17; 11:18; 14:10, 19; 15:1; 16:1; 19:15].

    Nowhere does the New Testament replace God's wrath with His love; instead, it views wrath as an essential and indispensable trait of God; it presents God not only as saving Lord but also as judge who brings with Him the judgment of His wrath.

    The good news of the Bible is not that there is no wrath of God, but that humankind is saved from wrath through faith in Jesus Christ:

    • "But God demonstrates His own love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by his blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him" (Rom. 5:8, 9).
    • Therefore, we "wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come" (1 Thess. 1:10).

    I got off topic a bit. For those who do us harm, we have the assurance: "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord" (Romans 12:19). This is a topic that deserves its own thread, to mine properly. CM

    SOURCES:

    -- G. Stahlin, "The Wrath of Man and the Wrath of God in the New Testament," TDNT, vol. 5, pp. 419-447.

    For a more in-depth discussion of the concept of the wrath of God in the New Testament, see
    -- G. Bornkamnn, Early Christian Experience (New York: Harper and Row, 1969).

    -- G.H.C. MacGregor, "The concept of the Wrath of God in the New Testament," New Testament Studies 7 (1960/1961): 101-109.

    “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36) (KJV 1900)

    “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness,” (Romans 1:18) (NET)

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:
    Waffle House shooting victims ID'd as worker, star athlete, music artist

    Last Updated Apr 22, 2018 11:27 PM EDT

    Authorities have identified the victims of Sunday's shooting that left four people dead at a Waffle House in Tennessee. They were identified as 29-year-old Taurean C. Sanderlin, 20-year-old Joe R. Perez, 21-year-old DeEbony Groves and 23-year-old Akilah Dasilva.

    "Hero" customer wrestled the rifle away from Waffle House shooter--

    1. What that "Black" man did to the shooter is an example of how to disarm a shooter with an AR-15 Rifle. Stop the killing.
    2. All owners of these guns (AR-15s) should be registered and licensed. Some mental evaluation of these owers should be conducted.
    3. All Christians of goodwill need to leave the NRA. Form an organization to help victim's families who experienced loss from guns like AR-15s.
    4. What Christian in his or her right spiritual mind continue to support and endorse the NRA? Of course, how can encourage, endorse and keep silent about putting guns in the classrooms?
    5. GUNS KILLS! BLOOD IS SHED! PEOPLE DIE! FAMILIES ARE SHATTERED! PAIN IS REAL! INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE SLAUGHTERED!

    This IS NOT "hyperbole" (exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally) an exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric.

    No Christian should own or endorse weapons of war into the hands of those, not of Ceasar's Army. To do so is to share in the outcome of its usage and the lost lives. It's time for Christians to put the Ten-Commandments above the Second Amendment! What say ye? CM

    Time to put the 10 Commandments above the 2nd Amend? I don't know of Christians that have it the other way around...

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @reformed said:

    Time to put the 10 Commandments above the 2nd Amend? I don't know of Christians that have it the other way around...

    What is your point? CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Time to put the 10 Commandments above the 2nd Amend? I don't know of Christians that have it the other way around...

    What is your point? CM

    That you are out in left field. No Christian that I know of is putting the 2nd Amendment over the 10 Commandments as you suggest.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    Mr. Reformed,
    It is you who has it wrong. You do this from time to time, misread. See my original statement.

    CM said: No Christian should own or endorse weapons of war into the hands of those, not of Ceasar's Army. To do so is to share in the outcome of its usage and the lost lives. It's time for Christians to put the Ten-Commandments above the Second Amendment! What say ye? CM

    >

    Reformed said: "Time to put the 10 Commandments above the 2nd Amend? I don't know of Christians that have it the other way around..."

    You may be one. So, now who's "out in left field". Give up your guns and let God lead and protect you. Some Christian Gun-owners are more committed to their guns than the Ten-commandments. This is my point. You seem to be one of them. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:
    Mr. Reformed,
    It is you who has it wrong. You do this from time to time, misread. See my original statement.

    CM said: No Christian should own or endorse weapons of war into the hands of those, not of Ceasar's Army. To do so is to share in the outcome of its usage and the lost lives. It's time for Christians to put the Ten-Commandments above the Second Amendment! What say ye? CM

    >

    Reformed said: "Time to put the 10 Commandments above the 2nd Amend? I don't know of Christians that have it the other way around..."

    You may be one. So, now who's "out in left field". Give up your guns and let God lead and protect you. Some Christian Gun-owners are more committed to their guns than the Ten-commandments. This is my point. You seem to be one of them. CM

    Based on what? What part of the 10 Commandments am I sacrificing for the 2nd Amendment? That's a pretty big charge you just laid against me, you BETTER be able to back it up.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    "Thou shall not kill"! Guns were made to kill, etc. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:
    "Thou shall not kill"! Guns were made to kill, etc. CM

    That is about the poorest example of exegetical work I have ever seen in my entire life. That commandment does NOT mean do not kill for any and all reasons. Do some research, some exegesis, and then when you have come back and try to accuse me of the same thing.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    Do you have faith in God? Do you value life outside the womb? Why do you want to take life with a gun? Do you trust God to take care of you in all situation? A gun was made to kill. Guns were not made to collect but people collect them. This is not the primary reasons guns are made. You know this is so. A gun is an instrument of death. Why would a Christian buy one, own one or collect them? Why tempt yourself with taking a life when you are afraid or angry? God will take care of you. You're endangering your children and family. Stop it! Don't do it! CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:
    Do you have faith in God? Do you value life outside the womb? Why do you want to take life with a gun? Do you trust God to take care of you in all situation? A gun was made to kill. Guns were not made to collect but people collect them. This is not the primary reasons guns are made. You know this is so. A gun is an instrument of death. Why would a Christian buy one, own one or collect them? Why tempt yourself with taking a life when you are afraid or angry? God will take care of you. You're endangering your children and family. Stop it! Don't do it! CM

    I noticed you completely ignored the fact that you falsely accused me of replacing the 10 Commandments with the 2nd Amendment because of your lack of exegetical skills.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    Are you willing to give gun (s)?
    I notice you didn't bother to answer my questions. See below:

    @C_M_ said:

    Do you have faith in God? Do you value life outside the womb? Why do you want to take life with a gun? Do you trust God to take care of you in all situation? A gun was made to kill. Guns were not made to collect but people collect them. This is not the primary reasons guns are made. You know this is so. A gun is an instrument of death. Why would a Christian buy one, own one or collect them? Why tempt yourself with taking a life when you are afraid or angry? God will take care of you. You're endangering your children and family. Stop it! Don't do it! CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:
    Are you willing to give gun (s)?
    I notice you didn't bother to answer my questions. See below:

    @C_M_ said:

    Do you have faith in God? Do you value life outside the womb? Why do you want to take life with a gun? Do you trust God to take care of you in all situation? A gun was made to kill. Guns were not made to collect but people collect them. This is not the primary reasons guns are made. You know this is so. A gun is an instrument of death. Why would a Christian buy one, own one or collect them? Why tempt yourself with taking a life when you are afraid or angry? God will take care of you. You're endangering your children and family. Stop it! Don't do it! CM

    So you aren't interested in Biblical truth, just political talking points. Good to know.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    These questions are not biblical? They're political talking points?

    1. Do you have faith in God?
    2. Do you value life outside the womb?
    3. Do you trust God to take care of you in all situation?
    4. Why would a Christian buy or collect weapons to take a human life?

    You can choose not to answer the questions but don't redefine their roots and called unbiblically. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:
    These questions are not biblical? They're political talking points?

    1. Do you have faith in God?

    Yes

    1. Do you value life outside the womb?

    Yes

    1. Do you trust God to take care of you in all situation?

    Yes

    1. Why would a Christian buy or collect weapons to take a human life?

    See this is where you fall off the rails. That is not the only purpose of a gun/weapon. However, if someone is attacking me, yes, a Christian has a right to self-defense and no, that is not against the 10 commandments.

    You can choose not to answer the questions but don't redefine their roots and called unbiblically. CM

    You actually are the one who chose not to answer a question when I pointed out you are not biblically minded on this topic but rather putting forth liberal talking points and taking Scripture out of context.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    The 2nd Amendment wasn't for all people, but God's law is for all. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:
    The 2nd Amendment wasn't for all people, but God's law is for all. CM

    Irrelevant. The 2nd Amendment IS for all Americans.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:
    The 2nd Amendment wasn't for all people, but God's law is for all. CM

    Irrelevant. The 2nd Amendment IS for all Americans.

    Wrong again! How much of American history have you been exposed? How much of it do you understand? Under what state or school system were you taught? Learn the truth about the 2nd Amendment. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:
    The 2nd Amendment wasn't for all people, but God's law is for all. CM

    Irrelevant. The 2nd Amendment IS for all Americans.

    Wrong again! How much of American history have you been exposed? How much of it do you understand? Under what state or school system were you taught? Learn the truth about the 2nd Amendment. CM

    What Americans is it not for? In case you didn't know (you aren't American right?) the Constitution applies to all Americans, not just some. So what state or school system were you taught incorrectly in?

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440
  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:
    "Ignorance Is Bliss" CM

    And yours is glaring.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:
    The 2nd Amendment wasn't for all people, but God's law is for all. CM

    Irrelevant. The 2nd Amendment IS for all Americans.

    Wrong again! How much of American history have you been exposed? How much of it do you understand? Under what state or school system were you taught? Learn the truth about the 2nd Amendment. CM

    What Americans is it not for? In case you didn't know (you aren't American right?) the Constitution applies to all Americans, not just some. So what state or school system were you taught incorrectly in?

    Oh, Mr. Reformed,
    Look at the circumstances, the people and the date the Second Amendment was established. What was the population like (the makeup)?

    Things are not done in a vacuum. Take your head out of the sand and look around. Ask yourself, who were the gun owners? What were the cost of guns and their availability? What treaties were pending or broken, people threat or property is stolen?

    Again, how much of American history have you been exposed? How much of it do you understand? Under what state or school system were you taught? Learn the truth about the 2nd Amendment. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:
    The 2nd Amendment wasn't for all people, but God's law is for all. CM

    Irrelevant. The 2nd Amendment IS for all Americans.

    Wrong again! How much of American history have you been exposed? How much of it do you understand? Under what state or school system were you taught? Learn the truth about the 2nd Amendment. CM

    What Americans is it not for? In case you didn't know (you aren't American right?) the Constitution applies to all Americans, not just some. So what state or school system were you taught incorrectly in?

    Oh, Mr. Reformed,
    Look at the circumstances, the people and the date the Second Amendment was established. What was the population like (the makeup)?

    Things are not done in a vacuum. Take your head out of the sand and look around. Ask yourself, who were the gun owners? What were the cost of guns and their availability? What treaties were pending or broken, people threat or property is stolen?

    Again, how much of American history have you been exposed? How much of it do you understand? Under what state or school system were you taught? Learn the truth about the 2nd Amendment. CM

    Are you even American? No? You DON'T know what you are talking about and if you aren't American how about you mind your own country's business?

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    Things are not done in a vacuum. Take your head out of the sand and look around. Ask yourself, who were the gun owners? What were the cost of guns and their availability? What treaties were pending or broken, people threat or property is stolen?

    Again, how much of American history have you been exposed? How much of it do you understand? Under what state or school system were you taught? Learn the truth about the 2nd Amendment. CM

    Are you even American? No? You DON'T know what you are talking about and if you aren't American how about you mind your own country's business?

    Hold up, son! Slow down. I gave you five questions to answer. Don't try switching the subject. The facts remain, regardless, of where you think my citizenship is. Again:

    CM said: how much of American history have you been exposed? How much of it do you understand? Under what state or school system were you taught? Learn the truth about the 2nd Amendment. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    I don't need to answer these questions. They are stupid irrelevant questions.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @reformed said:
    I don't need to answer these questions. They are stupid irrelevant questions.

    What are you so afraid of? You don't know the answers? You were not properly educated? Do you know the answer, but too ashamed to admit it? CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:
    I don't need to answer these questions. They are stupid irrelevant questions.

    What are you so afraid of? You don't know the answers? You were not properly educated? Do you know the answer, but too ashamed to admit it? CM

    I was properly educated and have read and studied the Constitution MANY times.

  • C_M_C_M_ Posts: 2,440

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:
    What are you so afraid of? You don't know the answers? You were not properly educated? Do you know the answer, but too ashamed to admit it? CM

    I was properly educated and have read and studied the Constitution MANY times.

    Then answer the questions:

    Look at the circumstances, the people and the date the Second Amendment was established.

    1. What was the population like (the makeup)?
    2. Ask yourself, who were the gun owners?
    3. What were the cost of guns and their availability?
    4. What treaties were pending or broken, people threat or property is stolen?
    5. Again, how much of American history have you been exposed?
    6. How much of it do you understand?
    7. Under what state or school system were you taught?

    All easy questions. CM

  • reformedreformed Posts: 1,885

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:
    What are you so afraid of? You don't know the answers? You were not properly educated? Do you know the answer, but too ashamed to admit it? CM

    I was properly educated and have read and studied the Constitution MANY times.

    Then answer the questions:

    Look at the circumstances, the people and the date the Second Amendment was established.

    1. What was the population like (the makeup)?

    Relevance?

    1. Ask yourself, who were the gun owners?

    Most men (except slaves)

    1. What were the cost of guns and their availability?

    Relevance?

    1. What treaties were pending or broken, people threat or property is stolen?

    Not sure what you mean by this.

    1. Again, how much of American history have you been exposed?

    Relevance? I've studied it extensively.

    1. How much of it do you understand?

    A good bulk.

    1. Under what state or school system were you taught?

    South Carolina, West Virginia, Kentucky, North Carolina but again, relevance?

    All easy questions. CM

    Most of them are irrelevant.

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