The Hidden Treasure of John 1:1

The truth about John 1:1 has been long hidden from the masses. Why is learning this scripture vital to your spiritual health? Because words matter! In Greek there are two different words for God. Also, using a definite article emphasizes the subject spoken about. First instance is ton theon which means the God and the second instance is theos which means a god.

How does John 1:1 read with a literal translation?

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.”

Jesus is never referred to as the theon because Jesus was begotten and came into existence. Therefore, the Apostle John used the nominative title theos which means a god referring to the Word’s divinity and godlike qualities.

  • 1975 “and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word” – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
  • 1978: “and godlike sort was the Logos” – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin

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  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    Pseudo-Christians such as self-proclaimed "Jehovah's Witnesses" latch onto an obscure meaning of an English word translated from Greek to build a case that supports a cult false teaching. The book above is an example of such distortion.


    https://www.gotquestions.org/only-begotten-son.html

  • PagesPages Posts: 152

    @BroRando

    In Greek there are two different words for God.

    Which two words? 

  • How can literal translation of John 1:1 "“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.” be correct ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6-11 there is NO god beside יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts)

    Isaiah 44:6-11 (LEB) => Thus says יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts: “I am the first, and I am the last, and there is no god besides me. And who is like me? Let him proclaim it! And let him declare it and set it in order for me since I established an eternal people and things that are to come, and let them tell them the things that are coming. You must not tremble, and you must not be paralyzed with fear. Have I not made you hear from of old and declared it, and you are my witnesses? Is there a god besides me? And there is no rock! I know none!” All those who form an idol are nothing, and their delightful things do not profit. And their witnesses do not see or know, so they will be ashamed. Who would form a god and cast an image of which he cannot profit? Look! all his companions shall be ashamed, and the artisans are human! Let all of them assemble; let them stand up. They shall tremble; they shall be ashamed together.



    Why did the Jewish Rabbi Jesus command Jewish disciples of Jesus to be believing in Jesus the same as believing in The God ?

    πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν θεόν, καὶ εἰς ἐμὲ πιστεύετε

     Holmes, M. W. (2011–2013). The Greek New Testament: SBL Edition (Jn 14:1). Lexham Press; Society of Biblical Literature. 

    Be Ye Believing in The God, also in Me Be Ye Believing (my literal translation showing continuous believing action command in present time)


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,424

    Thanks, @Truth,

    Necessity demands that I take the liberty to lift out two high point from the source cited above on the greek word "monogenes" translated in English as "only begotten" @BroRando and others to see:


    As stated according to the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (BAGD, 3rd Edition), monogenes has two primary definitions.


    The first definition is "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship."

    • This is its meaning in Hebrews 11:17 when the writer refers to Isaac as Abraham’s "only begotten son" (KJV).
    • Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant.
    • Therefore, it is the uniqueness of Isaac among the other sons that allows for the use of monogenes in that context.


    The second definition is "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind."

    • This is the meaning that is implied in John 3:16 (see also John 1:14183:181 John 4:9).
    • John was primarily concerned with demonstrating that Jesus is the Son of God (John 20:31), and he uses monogenes to highlight Jesus as uniquely God’s Son—sharing the same divine nature as God—as opposed to believers who are God’s sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5).
    • Jesus is God’s “one and only” Son.


    What a great truth to enlightened darkened minds. CM

  • "For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him." (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

    "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God; exercise faith ALSO in me." (John 14:1)

    "the Father is Greater than I am." (John 14:28)

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  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    And yet, in the next breath, @BroRando claims YHWH is one God and Jesus is another. This seems to be a case of an emperor (Watchtower) running around with no clothes and a lot of slaves who dare not admit the shameful thing they observe.

  • Repeating ?: How can literal translation of John 1:1 "“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.” be correct ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6-11 there is NO god beside יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts)

    Curious what question was being answered by 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 snippet ? (different than my literal translation of John 1:1 question)

    Concerning food sacrificed to idols is the focus of 1 Corinthians 8:1-13 (LEB) => Now concerning food sacrificed to idols, we know that “we all have knowledge.” Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone thinks he knows anything, he has not yet known as it is necessary to know. But if anyone loves אלהים God, this one is known by him. Therefore, concerning the eating of food sacrificed to idols, we know that “an idol is nothing in the world” and that “there is no אלהים God except one.” For even if after all there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many gods and many lords, yet to us there is one אלהים God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we are for him, and there is one יהוה Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through him. But this knowledge is not in everyone. But some, being accustomed until now to the idol, eat this food as food sacrificed to idols, and their conscience, because it is weak, is defiled. But food does not bring us close to אלהים God. For neither if we eat do we have more, nor if we do not eat do we lack. But watch out lest somehow this right of yours becomes a cause for stumbling to the weak. For if someone should see you who has knowledge reclining for a meal in an idol’s temple, will not his conscience, because it is weak, be strengthened so that he eats the food sacrificed to idols? For the one who is weak — the brother for whom Christ died — is destroyed by your knowledge. Now if you sin in this way against the brothers and wound their conscience, which is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat forever, in order that I may not cause my brother to sin.



    John 10:22-42 (LEB) => Then the feast of the Dedication took place in Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the Portico of Solomon. So the Jews surrounded him and began to say to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly!” Jesus answered them, “I told you and you do not believe! The deeds that I do in the name of my Father, these testify about me. But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep! My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish forever, and no one will seize them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can seize them from the Father’s hand. The Father and I are one.” Then the Jews picked up stones again so that they could stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good deeds from the Father. For which one of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “We are not going to stone you concerning a good deed, but concerning blasphemy, and because you, although you are a man, make yourself to be God!” Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? If he called them ‘gods’ to whom the word of God came—and the scripture cannot be broken—do you say about he whom the Father set apart and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? If I do not do the deeds of my Father, do not believe me. But if I am doing them, even if you do not believe me, believe the deeds, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” So they were seeking again to seize him, and he departed out of their hand. And he went away again on the other side of the Jordan, to the place where John was baptizing at an earlier time, and he stayed there. And many came to him and began to say, “John performed no sign, but everything John said about this man was true!” And many believed in him there.

    Personally amazed by Jewish religious leaders recognizing deity expression by יהוה Jesus while refusing to believe Jesus is יהוה Lord. Every human chooses what to Believe & Love most.


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Which one is Jesus? "No man has seen theon at any time; the only-begotten theos who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him." (John 1:18) Proverbs 8:30

    Theon or the only-begotten theos? You have a 50/50 chance of getting the right answer, otherwise the Scriptures will remain hidden from you.

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  • Brother RandoBrother Rando Posts: 761
    edited January 1

    Don't you know that Jehovah's Spirit Sons are called gods? John 1:18

    the only-begotten god: John is here referring to the Word, “Jesus Christ,” whom he earlier calls “a god.” (Joh 1:1, 17) John speaks of Jesus as being the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14; 3:16)

    In this passage, John calls Jesus “the only-begotten god,” a term that emphasizes Jesus’ unique position in God’s arrangement. Jesus can rightly be called “a god” because of the way the term “god” is used in the Bible. This title conveys the basic idea of a mighty one, and it is even used of humans in the Scriptures. (Ps 82:6; see study notes on Joh 1:1; 10:34.)

    Jesus is “a god,” or a mighty one, because he is given power and authority from the almighty God, the Father. (Mt 28:18; 1Co 8:6; Heb 1:2) Because Jesus is the only one directly created by God and the only one through whom all things “came into existence” (Joh 1:3), he is appropriately called “the only-begotten god.” This expression shows that Jesus holds a unique position of glory and preeminence in relation to all of God’s spirit sons.

    Jesus is called Mighty God and Angel of Counsel, but he's not the Alimghty God. Only Jehovah alone is the God of gods...

    Joshua 22:22

    “The God of gods, Jehovah! The God of gods, Jehovah! He knows, and Israel will also know. If we were rebellious and unfaithful to Jehovah, do not spare us this day.

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  • @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus The Jews answered him, “We are not going to stone you concerning a good deed, but concerning blasphemy, and because you, although you are a man, make yourself to be God!


    Trinitarians quote the wicked jewish leaders stating the false accusation that Jesus was making himself equal to God. Trinitarians reject Jesus response at (John 10:34-36) so as did the wicked jewish leaders as a whole.  

    Notice what Greek term they used in (John 10:33)? Only those who had intense hatred towards the Christ would use  Theon  https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/10-33.htm

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  • PagesPages Posts: 152

    @BroRando

    Notice what Greek term they used in (John 10:33)? Only those who had intense hatred towards the Christ would use Theon  https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/10-33.htm

    Why would the use of "Theon" as you state above show "intense hatred towards the Christ"? There is nothing evil to be found in the utilization, or understanding, of proper Greek grammar. 

    Though perhaps John ought to have written that the crowd said ...because you a god (theos) make yourself God (theon) – okay, in all seriousness now – both yourself and theon in the verse are objects of the verb make (ποιεῖς). Hence the use of the accusative case.

    I could hope that one day the realization of how the different Greek cases function within their grammar will become apparent.

    In the meantime, here is an analytical chart of the forms of θεός:

    Forms of θεός

    Θεέ     NVSM(1)    θεός


    θεέ    NVSM(1)    θεός


    Θεοί    NNPM(1)    θεός


    θεοὶ    NNPM(4)    θεός


    θεοῖς    NDPM(3)    θεός


    Θεὸν    NASM(1)     θεός


    Θεόν    NASM(1)    θεός


    θεόν    NASM(96)    θεός


    θεὸν    NASM(123) NASF(1)    θεός


    Θεὸς    NNSM(1)    θεός


    θεός    NNSM(98)    θεός


    θεὸς    NNSM(289)    θεός


    θεού    NGSM(1)    θεός


    Θεοῦ    NGSM(4)    θεός


    θεοῦ    NGSM(1077)    θεός


    θεοὺ    NGSM(1)    θεός


    θεοὺς    NAPM(4)    θεός


    θεούς    NAPM(2)    θεός


    θεῷ    NDSM(295)    θεός


    θεῶν    NGPM(2)    θεός


    ΘΕΩ  (WH)   NDSM(1)    θεός


    (2011). In The Lexham Analytical Lexicon to the Greek New Testament. Logos Bible Software.

    By the way, I'm still hoping for an answer to my first question in this thread.

    In Greek there are two different words for God.

    Which two words? 

  • Repeating ?: How can literal translation of John 1:1 "“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.” be correct ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6-11 there is NO god beside יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts)

    Ongoing curiosity is wondering what @BroRando questions are being answered by @BroRando ? (challenging to humanly discuss unstated @BroRando questions)


    @BroRando January 1 Which one is Jesus? "No man has seen theon at any time; the only-begotten theos who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him." (John 1:18Proverbs 8:30

    Theon or the only-begotten theos? You have a 50/50 chance of getting the right answer, otherwise the Scriptures will remain hidden from you.

    Question "Theon or the only-begotten theos?" is puzzling (as is Proverbs 8:30 following John 1:18). Probability chance does not apply to humans who willfully choose what to believe and love most.

    John 1:14-18 (SBLGNT) => Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας· (Ἰωάννης μαρτυρεῖ περὶ αὐτοῦ καὶ κέκραγεν λέγων· Οὗτος ἦν ὃν εἶπον· Ὁ ὀπίσω μου ἐρχόμενος ἔμπροσθέν μου γέγονεν, ὅτι πρῶτός μου ἦν·) ὅτι ἐκ τοῦ πληρώματος αὐτοῦ ἡμεῖς πάντες ἐλάβομεν, καὶ χάριν ἀντὶ χάριτος· ὅτι ὁ νόμος διὰ Μωϋσέως ἐδόθη, ἡ χάρις καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐγένετο. θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε· μονογενὴς θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο.

    John 1:14-18 (LEB with Hebrew word usually translated: אלהים as God) => And the Word became flesh and took up residence among us, and we saw his glory, glory as of the one and only from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testified about him and cried out, saying, “This one was he about whom I said, ‘The one who comes after me is ahead of me, because he existed before me.’ ” For from his fullness we have all received, and grace after grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ. No one has seen אלהים God at any time; the one and only, אלהים God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father — that one has made him known.

    Hebrew word אלהים is plural, which is a minimum of three. Hebrew language nouns have three spelling options: singular, dual, & plural. What is plural in One unique אלהים God ?


    Searching Society of Biblical Literature Greek New Testament (SBLGNT) for <Lemma = lbs/el/μονογενής> finds John used this Greek word five times: John 1:14, John 1:18, John 3:16, John 3:18, and 1 John 4:9

    Searching LXX Swete for <Lemma = lbs/el/μονογενής> finds nine verses in Greek Septuagint, which includes one in Odes 14:1-46 (Lexham English Septuagint with Hebrew words for usually translated: אלהים as God and יהוה as Lord) => Morning hymn. Glory to אלהים God in the highest, and on earth peace, goodwill to mankind. We praise you; we honor you; we worship you; we glorify you; we are thankful to you because of your great glory, יהוה Lord King, O heaven, אלהים God, Father Almighty, יהוה Lord, only begotten Son Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit. יהוה Lord אלהים God, Lamb of אלהים God, the Son of the Father, the one who removes the sins of the world, show us mercy. The one who removes the sins of the world, have mercy on us. Accept our petition, the one who sits at the right hand of the Father; show us mercy, because you alone are holy, you are alone יהוה Lord, Jesus Christ, to the glory of אלהים God the father. Amen. Through each day, I will honor you, and I will praise your name forever and through all eternity. May you consider us worthy, יהוה Lord, even this day that we might be kept blameless. Blessed are you, יהוה Lord אלהים God of our ancestors, and worthy of praise and glorified is your name forever. Amen. Blessed are you, יהוה Lord, teach me your precepts; Blessed are you, יהוה Lord, teach me your precepts; Blessed are you, יהוה Lord, teach me your precepts; יהוה Lord, you have become our refuge from generation to generation. I said, “יהוה Lord, show us mercy. Heal my soul because I sinned against you. יהוה Lord, I flee for refuge toward you, Teach me to do your will because you are my אלהים God, Because from you is a spring of life, In your light, we will see light, May you extend your compassion to those who know you.”


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • the_MadJwthe_MadJw Posts: 56

    The TRUE "Pseudo-Christians" are so haughty they can't see the Truth in God's Word.

    They prefer the Popular Teaching of the Major Cults. Such as above.'


    Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?

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  • the_MadJwthe_MadJw Posts: 56

    And yet Jehovah Himself called OTHERS "God"- including His angels and his human spokesmen.

    Such was the case of Ex 7:1- And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. - Darby

    In this case we have God and His prophets, which in this case, HE called "God".

    Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?

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    253-652-4443

  • @the_MadJw May 30 And yet Jehovah Himself called OTHERS "God"- including His angels and his human spokesmen.

    Please provide example(s) of יהוה Yahweh using "God" to describe His angels. I agree about Exodus 7 "a god" describing one human spokesperson, Moses, with "a god" audience of one human, Pharaoh (for the purpose of יהוה Yahweh's wrath to be experienced in Egypt, which included the death of Pharaoh).

    Exodus 7:1-5 LEB And יהוה Yahweh said to Moses, “See, I have made you as a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother will be your prophet. You will speak all that I will command you, and Aaron your brother will speak to Pharaoh, and he will release the Israelites from his land. And I myself will harden the heart of Pharaoh, and I will make my signs and my wonders numerous in the land of Egypt. And Pharaoh will not listen to you, and I will put my hand into Egypt and bring out my divisions, my people, the Israelites, from the land of Egypt with great punishments. And the Egyptians will know that I am יהוה Yahweh when I stretch out my hand over Egypt and bring the Israelites out from their midst.”


    Repeating ?: How can literal translation of John 1:1 "“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.” be correct ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6-11 there is NO god beside יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts)


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • the_MadJwthe_MadJw Posts: 56

    "as" not in the Hebrew.

    Just elohim.

    GOD!

    Do you REALLY believe that Jesus taught THAT?

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    253-652-4443

  • Brother RandoBrother Rando Posts: 761

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Repeating ?: How can literal translation of John 1:1 "“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.” be correct ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6-11 there is NO god beside יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts)

    For the same reason Hebrews 5:8 states (a son) in the LEB. Also the LEB states ( a god) in Exodus 7:1.

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Exodus 7:1-5 LEB And יהוה Yahweh said to Moses, “See, I have made you as a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother will be your prophet. You will speak all that I will command you, and Aaron your brother will speak to Pharaoh, and he will release the Israelites from his land. And I myself will harden the heart of Pharaoh, and I will make my signs and my wonders numerous in the land of Egypt. And Pharaoh will not listen to you, and I will put my hand into Egypt and bring out my divisions, my people, the Israelites, from the land of Egypt with great punishments. And the Egyptians will know that I am יהוה Yahweh when I stretch out my hand over Egypt and bring the Israelites out from their midst.”


    The translation "and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” demonstrates the failure of most Bible versions. There are however many Bible translations and scholars who translate this verse otherwise:


    Edward Harwood, "and was himself a divine person"

    Newcome, 1808, "and the word was a god"

    La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel,1928: “and the Word was a divine being.”

    John Samuel Thompson, The Montessoran; or The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists, Baltimore; published by the translator, 1829, "the Logos was a god

    Goodspeed's An American Translation, 1939, "the Word was divine

    Revised Version-Improved and Corrected, "the word was a god."

    Prof. Felix Just, S.J. - Loyola Marymount University, "and god[-ly/-like] was the Word."

    Moffatt's The Bible, 1972, "the Logos was divine"

    International English Bible-Extreme New Testament, 2001, "the Word was God*[ftn. or Deity, Divine, which is a better translation, because the Greek definite article is not present before this Greek word]

    Reijnier Rooleeuw, M.D. -The New Testament of Our Lord Jesus Christ, translated from the Greek, 1694, "and the Word was a god"

    Hermann Heinfetter, A Literal Translation of the New Testament,1863, [A]s a god the Command was"

    Abner Kneeland-The New Testament in Greek and English, 1822, "The Word was a God"

    Robert Young, LL.D. (Concise Commentary on the Holy Bible [Grand Rapids: Baker, n.d.], 54). 1885, "[A]nd a God (i.e. a Divine Being) was the Word"

    Belsham N.T. 1809 “the Word was a god”

    Leicester Ambrose, The Final Theology, Volume 1, New York, New York; M.B. Sawyer and Company, 1879, "And the logos was a god"

    Charles A.L. Totten, The Gospel of History, 1900, "the Word was Deistic [=The Word was Godly]

    J.N. Jannaris, Zeitschrift fur die Newtestameutlich Wissencraft, (German periodical) 1901, [A]nd was a god"

    Samuel Clarke, M.A., D.D., rector of St. James, Westminster, A Paraphrase on the Gospel of John, London "[A] Divine Person."

    Joseph Priestley, LL.D., F.R.S. (in A Familiar Illustration of Certain Passages of Scripture Relating to The Power of Man to do the Will of God, Original Sin, Election and Reprobation, The Divinity of Christ; And, Atonement for Sin by the Death of Christ [Philadelphia: Thomas Dobson, 1794], 37). "a God"

    Lant Carpenter, LL.D (in Unitarianism in the Gospels [London: C. Stower, 1809], 156). "a God"

    Andrews Norton, D.D. (in A Statement of Reasons For Not Believing the Doctrines of Trinitarians [Cambridge: Brown, Shattuck, and Company, 1833], 74). "a god"

    J. Harold Greenlee, "and the Word was Deity" (A Concise Exegetical Grammar of New Testament Greek)

    Paul Wernle, Professor Extraordinary of Modern Church History at the University of Basil (in The Beginnings of Christianity, vol. 1, The Rise of Religion [1903], 16). "a God"

    George William Horner, The Coptic Version of the New Testament, 1911, [A]nd (a) God was the word"

    Ernest Findlay Scott, The Literature of the New Testament, New York, Columbia University Press, 1932, "[A]nd the Word was of divine nature"

    James L. Tomanec, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, 1958, [T]he Word was a God"

    Philip Harner, JBL, Vol. 92, 1974, "The Word had the same nature as God"

    Maximilian Zerwich S.J./Mary Grosvenor, 1974, "The Word was divine"

    Siegfried Schulz, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1975, "And a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word"

    Translator's NT, 1973, "The Word was with God and shared his nature

    ...with footnote, "There is a distinction in the Greek here between 'with God' and 'God.' In the first instance, the article is used and this makes the reference specific. In the second instance there is not article, and it is difficult to believe that the omission is not significant. In effect it gives an adjectival quality to the second use of Theos (God) so that the phrase means 'The Word was divine'."

    Schonfield's The Original New Testament, 1985, "the Word was divine

    J. Madsen, New Testament A Rendering , 1994, "the Word was a divine Being"

    Jurgen Becker, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1979, "a God/god was the Logos/logos"

    Curt Stage, The New Testament, 1907, "The Word/word was itself a divine Being/being."

    Bohmer, 1910, "It was strongly linked to God, yes itself divine Being/being"

    Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme, 1919, "God of Kind/kind was the Word/word"

    Holzmann, 1926, "ein Gott war der Gedanke" [a God/god was the Thought/thought]

    Friedriche Rittelmeyer, 1938, "itself a God/god was the Word/word"

    Lyder Brun (Norw. professor of NT theology), 1945, "the Word was of divine kind"

    Fredrich Pfaefflin, The New Testament, 1949, "was of divine Kind/kind"

    Albrecht, 1957, "godlike Being/being had the Word/word"

    Smit, 1960, "the word of the world was a divine being"

    Menge, 1961, "God(=godlike Being/being) was the Word/word"

    Haenchen, 1980, "God (of Kind/kind) was the Logos/logos" [as mentioned in William Loader's The Christology of the Fourth Gospel, p. 155 cf. p.260]

    Die Bibel in heutigem Deutsch, 1982, "He was with God and in all like God"

    Haenchen (tr. By R. Funk), 1984, "divine (of the category divinity)was the Logos"

    Johannes Schulz, 1987, "a God/god (or: God/god of Kind/kind) was the Word/word." [As mentioned in William Loader's The Christology of the Fourth Gospel, p. 155 cf. p.260]

    William Temple, Archbishop of York, Readings in St. John's Gospel, London, Macmillan & Co.,1933, "And the Word was divine."

    John Crellius, Latin form of German, The 2 Books of John Crellius Fancus, Touching One God the Father, 1631, "The Word of Speech was a God"

    Greek Orthodox /Arabic Calendar, incorporating portions of the 4 Gospels, Greek Orthodox Patriarchy or Beirut, May, 1983, "the word was with Allah[God] and the word was a god"

    Ervin Edward Stringfellow (Prof. of NT Language and Literature/Drake University, 1943, "And the Word was Divine"

    Robert Harvey, D.D., Professor of New Testament Language and Literature, Westminster College, Cambridge, in The Historic Jesus in the New Testament, London, Student Movement Christian Press 1931 "and the Logos was divine (a divine being)"

    Jesuit John L. McKenzie, 1965, wrote in his Dictionary of the Bible: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated . . . 'the word was a divine being.'

    If Jesus was God, then there would be no need to delegate authority to him.  John 10:33 can also be translated as "a god" as it does in the New English Bible, which makes more sense in the context. “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods? {10:35} If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken), {10:36} say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemes; because I said, I am the Son of God?”

    Here Jesus was quoting Psalm 82 as his answer. Does it not make sense that the Son of God can be called a god also?

    Jesus was adamant about the ignorance of the Jews, so we should not put too much stock in his enemies. Matt. 12:34 "Ye offspring of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." Matt. 22:29 "But Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God."

    Therefore, you do error not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God when you yourself use (a god) and (a son) in areas you choose without consistency.

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  • Repeating request for @the_MadJw to please provide example(s) of יהוה Yahweh using "God" (elohim) to describe His angels.


    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus June 1 Repeating ?: How can literal translation of John 1:1 "“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.” be correct ? (contradicts Isaiah 44:6-11 there is NO god beside יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts)

    @Brother Rando July 31 For the same reason Hebrews 5:8 states (a son) in the LEB. Also the LEB states ( a god) in Exodus 7:1.

    Literal translation of Hebrews 5:8 phrase "... , καίπερ ὢν υἱός, ..." => "... , although he being son, ..." is a bit awkward in English. My disappointment in LEB is NOT italicizing indefinite article (a) in phrase "... . Although he was a son, ..." as an indefinite article (a) was added for smooth English reading.

    Literal translation of John 1:1c phrase "... , καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος." => "... , and God was being The Word." is better rendered into English with the subject (identified by the definite article) being before the verb => "... , and The Word was being God."

    Koine Greek has nuanced (emphasized) expression options around the verb to be (εἰμί ĕimi, Strong's 1510). A highly recommended textbook for learning Koine Greek begins Chapter 6 with:

    Nominative and Accusative; Article

    (First and Second Declension Nouns)

    Exegetical Insight


    The nominative case is the case that the subject is in. When the subject takes an equative verb like “is” (i.e., a verb that equates the subject with something else), then another noun also appears in the nominative case — the predicate nominative. In the sentence, “John is a man,” “John” is the subject and “man” is the predicate nominative. In English the subject and predicate nominative are distinguished by word order (the subject comes first). Not so in Greek. Since word order in Greek is quite flexible and is used for emphasis rather than for strict grammatical function, other means are used to distinguish subject from predicate nominative. For example, if one of the two nouns has the article, it is the subject.


    As we have said, word order is employed especially for the sake of emphasis. Generally speaking, when a word is thrown to the front of the clause it is done so for emphasis. When a predicate nominative is thrown in front of the verb, by virtue of word order it takes on emphasis. A good illustration of this is John 1:1c. The English versions typically have, “and the Word was God.” But in Greek, the word order has been reversed. It reads,


    καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

    and God was the Word.


    We know that “the Word” is the subject because it has the article, and we translate it accordingly: “and the Word was God.” Two questions, both of theological import, should come to mind: (1) Why was θεός thrown forward? and (2) why does it lack the article?


    In brief, its emphatic position stresses its essence or quality: “What God was, the Word was” is how one translation brings out this force. Its lack of the article keeps us from identifying the person of the Word (Jesus Christ) with the person of “God” (the Father). That is to say, the word order tells us that Jesus Christ has all the divine attributes that the Father has; lack of the article tells us that Jesus Christ is not the Father. John’s wording here is beautifully compact! It is, in fact, one of the most elegantly terse theological statements one could ever find. As Martin Luther said, the lack of the article is against Sabellianism; the word order is against Arianism.

    To state this another way, look at how the different Greek constructions would be rendered:


    καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν ὁ θεός

    “and the Word was the God” (i.e., the Father; Sabellianism)


    καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν θεός

    “and the Word was a god” (Arianism)


    καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

    “and the Word was God” (orthodoxy).


    Jesus Christ is God and has all the attributes that the Father has. But he is not the first person of the Trinity. All this is concisely affirmed in καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. Daniel B. Wallace

    FYI: Arianism believes The Word (Jesus) was a created being: "there was a time when Jesus was not." (similar to untrustworthy JW.org, whose many failed prophetic predictions prove the Watchtower Society is NOT the correct communication channel for Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God).


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother RandoBrother Rando Posts: 761

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Jesus Christ is God and has all the attributes that the Father has. But he is not the first person of the Trinity. All this is concisely affirmed in καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. Daniel B. Wallace

    Yet, not one single scripture says that Jesus Christ is God. Ohhh... NEITHER does any trinity! The trinity does not contain JESUS CHRIST anywhere in its' doctrine. Poster still avoids to show trinity doctrine he claim to believe because he can't find one that states JESUS CHRIST.

    • PS 82 You are Elohim (gods) and all of you are sons.
    • Now the SONS took notice of the daughters of men.
    • The trinity is a worship of false gods (elhoim). (Revelation 16:13)
    • No; but I say that what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. (1 Cor 10:29)

    Jesus plainly tell us, "Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man." (John 3:13

    God is not a man. (Numbers 23:19)

    God is not a son of humankind. (Numbers 23:19)

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  • @Brother Rando August 4 Yet, not one single scripture says that Jesus Christ is God. 

    If Jesus Christ is NOT God (e.g. Michael the Archangel), then why would יהוה Salvation (Jesus) command disciples in John 14:6 ? =>

    πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν θεόν, καὶ εἰς ἐμὲ πιστεύετε

    Be Ye Believing in The God, also in Me Be Ye Believing

    My John 14:6 translation keeps Koine Greek word order plus shows continuous believing action command in present time.

    If יהוה Salvation (Jesus Christ) is NOT God, then Believing in The God's annointed one also as The God would be sin (idolatry) against The God.


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother RandoBrother Rando Posts: 761

    Michael the Archangel- One who is like God the Beginning Angel- the Bright Morning Star; Chief Messenger

    • "In the Beginning was the Word" (John 1:1)
    • "and the Word was with God יהוה " (John 1:1a) ton theon
    • "and the Word was a god אלהים ."(John 1:1c) theos

    Just like elohim can be rendered as a god, as god, like god, a god or godlike, so can theos.

    • "and the Word was a god." (John 1:1c) theos
    • "and the Word was as a god." (John 1:1c) theos
    • "and the Word was like god." (John 1:1c) theos
    • "and the Word was a godlike." (John 1:1c) theos
    • "and the Word was divine." (John 1:1c) theos

    John 1:1

    the beginning: In the Scriptures, the meaning of the term “beginning” depends on the context. Here the Greek word ar·kheʹ cannot refer to “the beginning” of God the Creator, for he is eternal, having no beginning. (Ps 90:2) It must, therefore, refer to the time when God began creating. God’s first creation was termed the Word, a heavenly designation of the one who became Jesus. (Joh 1:14-17) So Jesus is the only one who can rightly be called “the firstborn of all creation.” (Col 1:15) He was “the beginning of the creation by God” (Re 3:14), so he existed before other spirit creatures and the physical universe were created. In fact, by means of Jesus, “all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth.”​—Col 1:16; for other examples of how the term “beginning” is used, see study note on Joh 6:64.

    the Word: Or “the Logos.” Greek, ho loʹgos. Here used as a title, it is also used at Joh 1:14 and Re 19:13. John identified the one to whom this title belongs, namely, Jesus. This title was applied to Jesus during his prehuman existence as a spirit creature, during his ministry on earth as a perfect man, and after his exaltation to heaven. Jesus was God’s Word of communication, or Spokesman, for conveying information and instructions to the Creator’s other spirit sons and to humans. So it is reasonable to think that prior to Jesus’ coming to earth, Jehovah on many occasions communicated with mankind through the Word, His angelic mouthpiece.​—Ge 16:7-11; 22:11; 31:11; Ex 3:2-5; Jg 2:1-4; 6:11, 12; 13:3.

    with: Lit., “toward.” In this context, the Greek preposition pros implies close proximity and fellowship. It also indicates separate persons, in this case, the Word and the only true God.

    the Word was a god: Or “the Word was divine [or, “a godlike one”].” This statement by John describes a quality or characteristic of “the Word” (Greek, ho loʹgos; see study note on the Word in this verse), that is, Jesus Christ. The Word’s preeminent position as the firstborn Son of God through whom God created all other things is a basis for describing him as “a god; a godlike one; divine; a divine being.” Many translators favor the rendering “the Word was God,” equating him with God Almighty. However, there are good reasons for saying that John did not mean that “the Word” was the same as Almighty God. First, the preceding clause and the following clause both clearly state that “the Word” was “with God.” Also, the Greek word the·osʹ occurs three times in verses 1 and 2. In the first and third occurrences, the·osʹ is preceded by the definite article in Greek; in the second occurrence, there is no article. Many scholars agree that the absence of the definite article before the second the·osʹ is significant. When the article is used in this context, the·osʹ refers to God Almighty. On the other hand, the absence of the article in this grammatical construction makes the·osʹ qualitative in meaning and describes a characteristic of “the Word.” Therefore, a number of Bible translations in English, French, and German render the text in a way similar to the New World Translation, conveying the idea that “the Word” was “a god; divine; a divine being; of divine kind; godlike.” Supporting this view, ancient translations of John’s Gospel into the Sahidic and the Bohairic dialects of the Coptic language, probably produced in the third and fourth centuries C.E., handle the first occurrence of the·osʹ at Joh 1:1 differently from the second occurrence. These renderings highlight a quality of “the Word,” that his nature was like that of God, but they do not equate him with his Father, the almighty God. In harmony with this verse, Col 2:9 describes Christ as having “all the fullness of the divine quality.” And according to 2Pe 1:4, even Christ’s joint heirs would “become sharers in divine nature.”

    Additionally, in the Septuagint translation, the Greek word the·osʹ is the usual equivalent of the Hebrew words rendered “God,” ʼel and ʼelo·himʹ, which are thought to convey the basic meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.” These Hebrew words are used with reference to the almighty God, other gods, and humans. (See study note on Joh 10:34.) Calling the Word “a god,” or “a mighty one,” would be in line with the prophecy at Isa 9:6, foretelling that the Messiah would be called “Mighty God” (not “Almighty God”) and that he would be the “Eternal Father” of all those privileged to live as his subjects. The zeal of his own Father, “Jehovah of armies,” would accomplish this.​—Isa 9:7.


    Exodus 23:20-21 “ ‘Look, I am about to send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared.  Be attentive to him and listen to his voice; do not rebel against him, because he will not forgive your transgression, for my name is in him.

    1 Corinthians 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.

    Acts 27:23 For this night an angel of the God whose I am and whom I serve came to me,

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  • If Jesus is "a god" (per untrustworthy JW.org), then why would יהוה Salvation (Jesus) command disciples in John 14:6 to be believing in Jesus the same as The God ? =>

    πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν θεόν, καὶ εἰς ἐμὲ πιστεύετε

    Be Ye Believing in The God, also in Me Be Ye Believing

    My John 14:6 translation keeps Koine Greek word order plus shows continuous believing action command in present time.


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother RandoBrother Rando Posts: 761
    edited August 5

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus

    Jesus is not τὸν θεόν so he tells his disciples also in Me Be Ye Believing. Jesus also tells his Father in heaven that You are the only true θεόν . He later gives testimony to his Father and God. Now they understand that all the things that you have given me are from you,  because the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they received them and know truly that I have come from you, and they have believed that You have Sent Me. (John 17:7-8) 

    "And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call ME good? No one is good except God alone." (Luke 1819


    Daniel 3:18 And if not, let it be known to you, O king, that ⌊we will not serve your gods⌋, and the statue of gold that you have set up we will not worship.”

    Daniel 3:24 - 25  Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and he rose up in haste and he asked, saying to his advisers, “ Did we not throw three men, bound, into the midst of the fire? They answered, saying to the king, “Certainly, O king!” He answered saying, “Look, I see four men unbound walking in the midst of the fire and there is no damage to them, and the appearance of the fourth man  resembles the son of a god.”


    So whom did Jehovah Send?

    Daniel 3:28 Nebuchadnezzar ⌊responded⌋, saying, “Blessed be their God, the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, who sent his angel and rescued his servants who trusted in him, and the command of the king they disobeyed, and they gave their bodies so that they did not serve and did not worship any god except their God.


    Compare:

    • Revelation 1:12-15 "And I turned to see the voice which was speaking with me, and when I turned, I saw seven gold lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching to the feet and girded around his chest with a golden belt, and his head and hair were white like wool, white as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame, and his feet were like fine bronze when it has been fired in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters ,And he had in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp, long, two-edged sword was protruding, and his countenance was like the sun when it shines at its brightest.
    • Doesn't this give evidence that the Son of Man is the Bright Morning Star a created being that has a beginning?
    • Malachi4:2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise, with healing in its wings, and you will go out and leap like ⌊fattened calves⌋.
    • Luke 6:5 And he said to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."


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  • @Brother Rando August 5 Jesus is not τὸν θεόν so he tells his disciples also in Me Be Ye Believing

    Thank you for expressing your faith belief about Jesus, which is consistent with untrustworthy JW.org (Watchtower Society) with implication about יהוה τὸν θεόν inspired words being incorrect (reads to me as blasphemy against Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God).


    If Jesus is "a god" (per untrustworthy JW.org), then why would יהוה Salvation (Jesus), speaking words from יהוה τὸν θεόν, command disciples in John 14:6 to be believing in Jesus the same as The God ? =>

    πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν θεόν, καὶ εἰς ἐμὲ πιστεύετε

    Be Ye Believing in The God, also in Me Be Ye Believing

    My John 14:6 translation keeps Koine Greek word order plus shows continuous believing action command in present time.

    To me, יהוה Lord Jesus, יהוה Salvation, rightfully deserves the same belief from me as τὸν θεόν (because יהוה Father, יהוה Salvation, & יהוה Ruach HaKodesh are three unified voices in One Holy אלהים God, who is uniquely different than human beings created by the Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God).


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Brother RandoBrother Rando Posts: 761

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus To me, יהוה Lord Jesus, יהוה Salvation, rightfully deserves the same belief from me as τὸν θεόν (because יהוה Father, יהוה Salvation, & יהוה Ruach HaKodesh are three unified voices in One Holy אלהים God, who is uniquely different than human beings created by the Holy יהוה Lord אלהים God).

    I know. That's why I claimed you are the same as the wicked religious leaders who falsely claimed that Jesus claiming to be θεόν.

    John10:33 The Jews answered him, “We are not going to stone you concerning a good deed, but concerning blasphemy, and because you, although you are a man, make yourself to be God θεόν!”

    The Greek word used by Jesus Christ's Enemies is not theos but rather theon.


    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Ruach HaKodesh are three unified voices in One Holy אלהים God

    No. The three Voices you worship are (gods). Demons. Angels that sinned.

    • Revelation 16:13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet three unclean spirits like frogs.
    • Revelation16:14 For they are the spirits of demons performing signs that go out to the kings of the whole inhabited world, to gather them for the battle of the great day of God the All-Powerful.

    Read (Exodus 20:3)

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  • PagesPages Posts: 152

    @Brother Rando

    Michael the Archangel- One who is like God the Beginning Angel- the Bright Morning Star; Chief Messenger

    "One who is like God" seems to taking liberty with the usual rendition Who Is Like God? given to the name Michael. The grammar of "One who is like God" seems to me to place an emphasis on the exactness of one who is (exactly) like God in every way; as opposed to expressing the reminder that there is no one who is like God.

    In other words, the addition of "One" to the meaning of Michael has effectively turned a question expecting a negative response into a positive assertion which cannot be – God is uncreated, while Michael is created.

    "the Beginning Angel" is an interesting thought – how do you know? Is there support in scripture specifically stating that Michael was the first of all angels God created?

    Moving on: 

    the beginning: In the Scriptures, the meaning of the term “beginning” depends on the context.

    I agree with this.

    Here the Greek word ar·kheʹ cannot refer to “the beginning” of God the Creator, for he is eternal, having no beginning. (Ps 90:2) It must, therefore, refer to the time when God began creating.

    Certainly, God has no beginning or end; however, beginning (ἀρχή) is not a synonym for created, creating, or creation. This can easily be understood where both terms are used together (cf. Gen. 1:1; Matt. 19:4; Mk. 10:6, 13:19; 2Pet. 3:4).

    God’s first creation was termed the Word,

    I disagree with the above view of the Word having been created, or that the first act of creation by God was the Word. Where in Jn. 1:1-2 do you read of the Word having been created?

    I read of the Word creating all things in Jn. 1:3 and specifically "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." which excludes the Word himself from having been made. 

    It is notable that the NWT did not insert other, as in "all other things", into the verse as they have done in Col. 1:16-17. 

    So Jesus is the only one who can rightly be called “the firstborn of all creation.” (Col 1:15)

    Col. 1:15 does not state that Jesus is the first-created (πρωτόκτιστος) of all creation. Firstborn (πρωτότοκος) in the context of Col.1:15-18 is a status of supremacy (Col. 1:18) where both ἀρχή and πρωτότοκος are used together "he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, ...".

    Furthermore, in Col. 1:15 it is stated that "The Son is the image of the invisible God" which Paul gives definition to in Rom. 1:20 – "his eternal power and divine nature". So the Son shares in the eternal power and divine nature of the Father; therefore, as Jn. 1:1 states: "...and the Word was God".

    Calling the Word “a god,” or “a mighty one,” would be in line with the prophecy at Isa 9:6, foretelling that the Messiah would be called “Mighty God” (not “Almighty God”)

    Isa. 10:21 uses “Mighty God” in context for "the LORD, the Holy One of Israel." (Isa. 10:20) and "The Lord, the LORD Almighty, " (Isa. 10:23). So, in light of the above, given “Mighty God” is used to reference God should we consider it okay to call Him "a god" as well?

    I realize of course that the majority of your post I'm responding to is just a copy and paste from the JW website; but, I do have an additional question to ask of you.

    In your mind, or in the mind of the WT Society, how should the third clause of John 1:1 have been written to express "and the Word was God." given that "a god" is considered the correct reading by you and the WT?

    Moving to comments made in your last two posts above.

    Jesus is not τὸν θεόν

    "...You are the only true θεόν."

    "...you are the same as the wicked religious leaders who falsely claimed that Jesus [was] claiming to be θεόν."

    "The Greek word used by Jesus Christ's Enemies is not theos but rather theon."

    So..., your point, and objection, is that Jesus is not referred to, or is referred to, by an accusative object (θεόν) in Greek?

  • Brother RandoBrother Rando Posts: 761
    edited August 6

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus "the Beginning Angel" is an interesting thought – how do you know? Is there support in scripture specifically stating that Michael was the first of all angels God created?

    Yes Michael was created even though some have made the claim that Michael was uncreated. Some even have claimed that Michael is God. (not our view)

    Michael the Captain or Commander of Jehovah's army or hosts takes the lead as the Word of God. And he said, “Neither. I have come now  the commander of Yahweh’s army.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and ⌊he bowed down⌋ and said to him, “What  my lord commanding his servant?” (Joshua 5:14) Read your own footnote... ( t Or “he worshiped”) Maybe you should do some research to find out why the LEB promotes angel worship? Notice Joshua calls this angel (lord) ??


    • "having become by so much better than the angels, by as much as he has inherited a more excellent name than theirs." (Hebrews 1:4)
    • “And let all the angels of God worship him.” (Hebrews 1:6)
    • "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and at that time he will reward each one according to ⌊what he has done⌋." (Matthew 16:27)
    • And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels ⌊fought against⌋d the dragon, and the dragon and his angels ⌊fought back⌋. (Revelation 12:7)

    If the Son of Man is coming with his Father's Angels, I can see how one would think that Michael is God. But I know that Michael is the Son of Man that was given the Name JESUS. (Philippians 2:9-11)

    "The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never go outside again, and I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God, and my new name." (Revelation 3:12)

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  • Brother RandoBrother Rando Posts: 761

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus

    the beginning: In the Scriptures, the meaning of the term “beginning” depends on the context.

    I agree with this.

    Here the Greek word ar·kheʹ cannot refer to “the beginning” of God the Creator, for he is eternal, having no beginning. (Ps 90:2) It must, therefore, refer to the time when God began creating.

    Arkhe' refers to "the beginning" as in archangel....

    Arkhe' refers to the beginning.. Archangel is derived from arkhe'

    Most importantly "the beginning" was referred to the Word. "In the beginning was the Word," (John 1:1)

    Strong's Concordance

    arché: beginning, origin

    Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ

    Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine

    Transliteration: arché

    Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay')

    Definition: beginning, origin

    Usage: (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning.

    HELPS Word-studies

    746 arxḗ – properly, from the beginning (temporal sense), i.e. "the initial (starting) point"; (figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief (foremost), i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent").


    Archégo is also derived from arkhe'

    Strong's Concordance

    archégos: founder, leader

    Original Word: ἀρχηγός, οῦ, ὁ

    Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine

    Transliteration: archégos

    Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay-gos')

    Definition: founder, leader

    Usage: originator, author, founder, prince, leader.


    HELPS Word-studies

    747 arxēgós(from 746 /arxḗ, "the first" and 71 /ágō, "to lead") – properly, the first in a long procession; a file-leader who pioneers the way for many others to follow


    Those who claim Jesus is pre-eminent usually deny these explanations of the Word.

    • 746 arxḗ – properly, from the beginning (temporal sense), i.e. "the initial (starting) point"; (figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief (foremost), i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent").
    • 747 arxēgós(from 746 /arxḗ, "the first" and 71 /ágō, "to lead") – properly, the first in a long procession; a file-leader who pioneers the way for many others to follow


    Visit JW.org Get Accurate Answers to Your Questions. Bible is in over 120 (tongues) and over 1,067 languages of Bible Literature.

  • PagesPages Posts: 152


    You have mistakenly responded to @KS4J in your last two posts. Please respond to me. I would like to have your responses to the observations and questions I addressed to you in my post.

    The first question you responded to from my post was the following:

    "the Beginning Angel" is an interesting thought – how do you know? Is there support in scripture specifically stating that Michael was the first of all angels God created?

    Knowing that you consider the term "beginning" to sometimes imply the meaning first-created is why I asked this question, and why I'll ask it of you again: 

    "the Beginning Angel" is an interesting thought – how do you know? Is there support in scripture specifically stating that Michael was the first of all angels God created?

    Your complete response to this question never engaged with my specific question – the crux of it being – is there scripture stating that Michael was the first of all angels God created?

    Moving on to your last post you open with the following:

    Arkhe' refers to "the beginning" as in archangel....

    Arkhe' refers to the beginning.. Archangel is derived from arkhe'

    Most importantly "the beginning" was referred to the Word. "In the beginning was the Word," (John 1:1)

    A logical fallacy in the above argument – the first clause of John 1:1 does not say the Word is "the beginning"; it states that whatever temporal or supra-temporal frame one gives to "In the beginning..." the Word already was. 

  • PagesPages Posts: 152
    edited August 7

    @Brother Rando

    Here is a full re-post of my post to you where you then mistakenly replied to @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus on two points.

    @Brother Rando

    "Michael the Archangel- One who is like God the Beginning Angel- the Bright Morning Star; Chief Messenger"

    "One who is like God" seems to taking liberty with the usual rendition Who Is Like God? given to the name Michael. The grammar of "One who is like God" seems to me to place an emphasis on the exactness of one who is (exactly) like God in every way; as opposed to expressing the reminder that there is no one who is like God.

    In other words, the addition of "One" to the meaning of Michael has effectively turned a question expecting a negative response into a positive assertion which cannot be – God is uncreated, and Michael is created.

    "the Beginning Angel" is an interesting thought – how do you know? Is there support in scripture specifically stating that Michael was the first of all angels God created?

    Moving on: 

    "the beginning: In the Scriptures, the meaning of the term “beginning” depends on the context."

    I agree with this.

    "Here the Greek word ar·kheʹ cannot refer to “the beginning” of God the Creator, for he is eternal, having no beginning. (Ps 90:2) It must, therefore, refer to the time when God began creating."

    Certainly, God has no beginning or end; however, beginning (ἀρχή) is not a synonym for created, creating, or creation. This can easily be understood where both terms are used together (cf. Gen. 1:1; Matt. 19:4; Mk. 10:6, 13:19; 2Pet. 3:4).

    "God’s first creation was termed the Word, ..."

    I disagree with the above view of the Word having been created, or that the first act of creation by God was the Word. Where in Jn. 1:1-2 do you read of the Word having been created?

    I read of the Word creating all things in Jn. 1:3 and specifically "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." which excludes the Word himself from having been made. 

    It is notable that the NWT did not insert other, as in "all other things", into the verse as they have done in Col. 1:16-17.

    "So Jesus is the only one who can rightly be called “the firstborn of all creation.” (Col 1:15)

    Col. 1:15 does not state that Jesus is the first-created (πρωτόκτιστος) of all creation. Firstborn (πρωτότοκος) in the context of Col.1:15-18 is a status of supremacy (Col. 1:18) where both ἀρχή and πρωτότοκος are used together "he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, ...".

    Furthermore, in Col. 1:15 it is stated that "The Son is the image of the invisible God" which Paul gives definition to in Rom. 1:20 – "his eternal power and divine nature". So the Son shares in the eternal power and divine nature of the Father; therefore, as Jn. 1:1 states: "...and the Word was God".

    "Calling the Word “a god,” or “a mighty one,” would be in line with the prophecy at Isa 9:6, foretelling that the Messiah would be called “Mighty God” (not “Almighty God”)..."

    Isa. 10:21 uses “Mighty God” in context for "the LORD, the Holy One of Israel." (Isa. 10:20) and "The Lord, the LORD Almighty, " (Isa. 10:23). So, in light of the above, given “Mighty God” is used to reference God should we consider it okay to call Him "a god" as well?

    I realize of course that the majority of your post I'm responding to is just a copy and paste from the JW website; but, I do have an additional question to ask of you.

    In your mind, or in the mind of the WT Society, how should the third clause of John 1:1 have been written to express "and the Word was God." given that "a god" is considered the correct reading by you and the WT?

     Moving to comments made in your last two posts above.

    "Jesus is not τὸν θεόν..."

    "...You are the only true θεόν."

    "...you are the same as the wicked religious leaders who falsely claimed that Jesus [was] claiming to be θεόν."

    "The Greek word used by Jesus Christ's Enemies is not theos but rather theon."

    So..., your point, and objection, is that Jesus is not referred to, or is referred to, by an accusative object (θεόν) in Greek?

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