CD: Where Are We Headed and What Have We Become?

C McC Mc Posts: 4,444
edited November 2021 in General

Fellow Posters:

CD is becoming a potential junior satellite of the JWs Organization. A name change may be necessary.  @BroRando  is the only poster in CD who directs traffic to his website. He promotes his WT doctrines in CD as an extension of his Church. CD is supposed to be a place of discussion, not a dumping ground for one poster's hardened religious beliefs. All because there is no rule to protect one from "denominational" wholesale website dumping.

Unfortunately, Chairman Jan hasn't addressed the matter. I don't know Jan to be a JW or endorse its teachings, but this apparent free pass is alarming and, to others, sickening. JWs' unloading is equivalent to religious urine, spread over the forums, marking CD as a spot for future territory takeover and ownership, like animals in the wild. Its doctrinal (@BroRando,  shamefully denies such existence) saturation waters down the varied voices these forums demand openness.

@Bill_Coley appears to defend speak against hard-core religious dumping on CD with a passion. I have no problem with cutting pasting third-party information or voices. I have long encouraged it. Elsewhere, @Bill_Coley, in a straw-man faction of distraction, purport that I was against this practice and hypocritical because others did so. When one has the good sense to select from a third-party source, so be it. I do know all of it will not come from one source (@BroRando's JWs Website). One religious group unloading is a bit too much for me and some other posters. I mentioned this because it, too, can be a reason others consider leaving the current CD.

 @Bill_Coley, JWs, and  @BroRando seem to share a (not so secret) marriage. They share the same core religious "Jesus is not God" doctrinal love. This remaining three-some ( @Wolfgang  is on the verge of leaving) shares the Unitarian doctrinal bed. The sad truth is, I don't think @BroRando  knows what's at the base of his religious beliefs. If he knows, he is not a good "witness" about it. The foundation of NWT bears this religious stance. Why  @Bill_Coley fail to acknowledge, at least openly, that birds of feathers (opposing Christ's divinity) flock together? Bill's latest charade of minor disagreements with  @BroRando  is woefully shameful and anemic at best. The tacit slap on the hands, a blind man can see it.

Those who are not bamboozled by @Bill_Coley's self-declared, moralist, "wanna-to-be" CD mediator, temperamental responder to posters. Some of what JWs and  @BroRando  are promoting is embarrassing and indefensible (e.g., 1914, etc.). Even if  @BroRando doesn't know,  @Bill_Coley  should have known that to mix a religious group of faulty translators who inserts words, not in the original texts (Greek/Hebrew), the final product will inevitable faulty Bible at best. Bill, you should know better, even if it has "Jesus is not God" comfort text in it. When one lies in bed with faulty doctrines, one wakes up in the morning with heresy. Am I being critical of posters, this site, or sounding the alarm for change? This and other things on where do we go from here? Next time! CM

Comments

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    What happens if you let nature of the ungodly take its course?

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,444

    The evident, much loss and destruction will occur if the "ungodly take its course." CD will become a "by-word and a hiss." CM

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2021

    CD has become what could be expected when a bull elephant stepped into a china shop. Once the bull has destroyed all, he might move on to another place to destroy or else stay and see to it that nobody interested in biblical matters will show up again.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    I bear some blame for that. I came in rather strongly and probably goaded some people. I meant well, but the outcome may not have been what I hoped for.

    For my part in disturbing things in a negative way, I am very sorry.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,444


    Chairman Jan and Fellow CD Posters,


    I am taking the liberty to sound the alarm that CD is in trouble and needs immediate attention. As mentioned above, she's at a critical mass for a major meltdown. Hoping that she would correct herself or new posters would turn the tide are all wishful thinking at this juncture.

    A cursory view of the recent posts in CD has become comical and extreme in limited views. It's not reflective of what you (Jan) worked so hard for and envisioned. The posts are at an all-time low. CD seemed to have descended into a religious slime pit. A plethora of undesirables. e.g., petty barbs, name-calling, repetitiveness, demagogueries, and ejaculation of spurious spirituality for self-aggrandizement. One can hardly discern biblical truths for the charges and counter-charges. 

    Falsehoods without sustentation. Too many accusations and fractured knowledge in one's quest to achieve maximum smear and belittlement of the other's position, if not to one's character. All in the name of Christianity and the rights these forums allow. The pendulum has swung from too many comments on current events, namely from politics, to the extreme position about Christ, particularly, His divinity.

    I am not exempting myself from expressing altruistic indignations from time to time on current events. Recently, I vehemently opposed, via  @BroRando, JWs Website dumping on CD in its quest to proselytize. Until shown better, I remain under a particular persuasion.


    I want to suggest the following for immediate actions:

    1. All posting should immediately be halted to re-evaluate posters' commitment to CD's core objectives and principles. This action is the time and length of the Chairman, Jan, or his appointee.
      1. Review or develop a clear rationale for its continued existence. Failure to do so, the CD will end regardless (crash and burn). See my last post on this matter.
      2. Crystallize the guidelines with practical consequences.
      3. Don't allow any poster to promote its website or church affiliation on the opened forums. He may be allowed in a PM with permission of the individual request.
    2. Encourage posters to start more threads from the biblical text.
    3. Institute a thread of the month from the Chairman, Jan, from Scripture or pressing issues in the Christian World that any poster has not addressed.
    4. Established, if possible, a new category, "Books to Consider." This will cover new and old books of value and importance to Christian growth and development.
    5. Remove all former members' access to CD, especially Personal Message (PM). Restricting this privilege is to prevent contamination of new members. Notify former members in advance of impending action.
    6. Give a quarterly review of posters' data and analysis of post categories.
    7. Invite guest contributors to present a oneor two-page articles (short) from seminaries form around the country and allow current posters to comment.
    8. The Chairman or his appointee would ensure posters that submitted posts will not be changed without the writer being duly informed beforehand. The exception will be for criminal matters or extreme vulgarity.
    9. Form an independent governing body (six months term) to accept members and censor (content, members in violation, appeals, and removal of members). Self-governance is not working at this juncture. Rules must exist because of some people's propensity to abuse freedoms and privileges.
    10. Set a ceiling for the length of threads. Some are too long. Excessive length and the tendency of posters not staying on the topic lead to an assortment of nonsense.
    11. Bold, brazen, repetitive name-callers are duly warned by the Chairman or the appointed governing body. After such, a suspension for a limited period by the said body or person. After a second infraction, an extended suspension, and a third, their names are removed from the CD System.

    These guidelines need serious consideration to stop CD's hemorrhaging purpose and reputation. Immediate action is preferred. The Chairman may consider additional guidelines. Personal Message of admonishment may go to the current poster as the Chairman deems necessary. The suggestions above are to bring freshness. To expand our interest and knowledge of things in light of the times we live. One can see more from a picture window than through a keyhole. To my fellow posters, with privileges comes responsibility! Therefore we must discipline ourselves and work smarter, if not harder. CM


    PS. This post is opened reasonable suggestions to the Chairman. Be practical, sensible, and concise as possible. Thanks for your attention and support. CM 

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521
    edited December 2021

    I don’t disagree with what you want, but suggest you create your own discussion board. The special interests of the present range of participants is broad and strong. Their audience is narrow and few, but for some, this may be the only audience they can get. I doubt such people will loosen their teeth on such a bone just because you or I want better. Jan can kick them out if he wants. He apparently doesn’t want. I would likely do what he is doing—maybe—just out of curiosity how badly “Christians” will behave in such an environment

    Jan can guide, threaten, make rules and more. That might make a better moderated board but there are already many such boards out there. Why don’t people go to those? Probably because this is one of the few places they can hurl verbally violent or subtle insults against others and get away with it. People tolerate it or grimace and leave. I’m new here but only 2 people here have stayed long term. Bill longest and CM next.

    The reason isn’t hard to surmise. I came initially out of startled curiosity at the oddity. Then amusement at the seriousness of the nonsense. I’ve stayed only to blink in amazement as I get to know a couple of personalities better. Will I stay long based on what I see now or historically? Nope.

    I think such a board could have value but don’t think it’s going to happen without mature people, and sadly, without moderation.

    Actually, what I’d really like to see is an unmoderated board like this dominated by mature, thinking, meaningful discourse. The nonsense would get lost in the shuffle. But I think this board is evidence that such an outcome is unlikely.

    Has such a thing ever existed anywhere? I thank Jan for trying,

    I dream of a discourse Forum where people respectfully and thoughtfully share ideas, disagreements, worship, gratitude, politics (maybe), knowledge, and teaching. Barbs and insults, slams and putdowns, subtle or overt--all would be minimized or non-existent. Grace would cover occasional misunderstandings or misbehaviors. I certainly have not modeled that here, but could and would--if we could agree to honestly try. My trust that others would is probably nil. So , I sort of roll with the "party behavior" worrying that doing so in God's vineyard is probably out of bounds.

    ——-

    Am I right that this is or was an abandoned Logos Bible forum?

    Also, CM, where do you get this "Chairman" Jan stuff?

    (sorry that wasn’t short)

    Post edited by Truth on
  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,444

    @Truth said:

    "... CM, where do you get this "Chairman" Jan stuff?"

    Short answer, from an appreciative soul. I use the term, not to its complete dictionary meaning. It's a term of endearment beyond the actual responsibility of securing the site, advertisers, maintenance of functionality, recruitment of new posters, protecting the freedom and privileges the forums affords. To be clear, I don't see him as "a boss" or "master" of anyone.  @Truth, do you have any reasonable objections to the term or me using it? I hope this helps. CM

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    It’s fine to use. Unusual, but fine.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,444
    edited December 2021

    CD Posters of good-will,

    Not long ago, chairman Jan has stated caution, warning, and fortitude. I have started my initial suggestions above for improvement. What are you willing to do or suggest during this "rest period" until Jan returns from addressing domestic matters?

    Just for the records, I am not related to Jan beyond the bloodline that connects us to Adam and Eve. I am not looking or "kissing up" to Jan to control or manage CD with or with him. I have not sought or asked for a position managing CD. I don't have any stocks (beyond being a frequent poster) or financial investment in CD.

    I do regard CD as my own, to the dismay of many. It's all good, and my intention is for good. No, Jan has not paid, promised, or budgeted for me to receive any monetary funds now or in the future. My goodwill toward CD is purely voluntary. These forums have the potential for a much greater good. This is why we must "check ourselves before we wreck ourselves" on the highway of Christian Forums.

    On this day, I declare that my words of kindness concerning CD are not to ward off any disciplinary actions. I don't know or have been told of anyone under a disciplinary watch. I only know what the chairman said in his last post in a new thread ("recent-escalations"):

    "CD is simply way down on the priority list to devote more than the minimum time..."

    1.  @C Mc  -- This is not beyond anyone's comprehension. Addressing unforeseen matters and prioritization are the things that make us responsible men in the home and in the community.
    2.  @C Mc  -- This is why it's a shame for men calling themselves Christians can't reflect consistently or at least reasonably what he professes.
    3.  @C Mc  -- If one denies Christ, what is there to keep the soul?

    "...the rest of the week you'll be on your own..."

    1.  @C Mc  -- Can we help ourselves by compiling a list of practical and doable time in things in the short term?
    2.  @C Mc  -- This will give us input and allow the Chairman to select the best. CD will improve when you invest your best.

    "I've looked carefully through all the cases of name-calling, ad-hominems, racial slurs, and other kinds of offensive behaviour. I was considering temporary bans for all offenders until I return from vacation, but decided against it, as that'd mean banning almost all major board participants. None of the incidents should have happened, but then, none of the name-callings were so severe to justify any permanent actions for the offenders.

    1.  @C Mc  Offenders occurred but not enough to "justify any permanent actions for the offenders."

    "In the future, if there are any incidents like this, please call out any cases of ad-hominem and name-calling directly in the respective threads..."

    1.  @C Mc  -- It sounds self-governing, the way it ought to be?
    2.  @C Mc  -- This is incumbent upon all to know astutely be aware of what constitutes an "ad-hominem and name-calling."

    "... should be embarrassing enough for the offenders. If the situation gets out of hand, of course [,] you can still flag posts or send me PMs.

    1.  @C Mc  -- In a new world, this is fine, but some men have no shame in the "real world." I guess this is the purpose for the latter part of the above statement.

    "As for assigning moderator privileges to someone else, I'm currently not going to do that... there's currently no-one here I'd trust with the moderator role".

    1.  @C Mc  -- I would like to thank the Chairman for his honesty in not trusting any of the posters "currently" "with the moderator role."
    2.  @C Mc  Does this mean never?
    3.  @C Mc  Does the Chairman find all of us to be pugnacious?
    4.  @C Mc  What were we attacking? Was it unfair to level the playing field or one another?
    5.  @C Mc  Were we protecting the remnant of a site marked by some as unchristian before the onslaught of posters proclaiming persistent anti-christ, blatant, blasphemous against our Lord and Savior Jesus, The Christ?
    6.  @C Mc Was we attacking corrupt biblical texts conceived in narrow-mindedness, unscholarly, fearmongering, unreliable books that pervert humanity's hope of an earthly kingdom while only 144,000 will enjoy the heavenly courts.
    7.  @C Mc  Were we attaching religious falsehoods and biblical robber barons with silver-tongued propaganda parading caricatures of God's Son, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit?

    "As for discussing JW doctrine, I'm going to allow it, including links to their organization".

    1.  @C Mc  -- I hope this is not a decision the Chairman would regret!


    I don't fear the Chairman's actions as necessity demands to take CD in hand. For the sake of all, let me say, I am not above the established rules of these forums. Compliance with them at times is a challenge, but I manage to remain within the guidelines for the most part. Let us keep the site objectives before us.

    However, some adjustments need to be made to stop the slide of these forums into irrelevancy and nothingness. Your suggestions and contributions will be appreciated.  It is better to fix a thing than the hope of resurrecting it. CM





    SOURCE:

    https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/1024/recent-escalations#latest

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,635

    @C Mc posted:

    Can we help ourselves by compiling a list of practical and doable time in things in the short term?

    I think so: Criticize ideas, not people.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,444

    This is a typo. It should be: Can we help ourselves by compiling a list of practical and doable things in the short term? CM

    Thanks, Bill! CM

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,635

    @C Mc posted:

    Can we help ourselves by compiling a list of practical and doable time in things in the short term?

    I should add that "Criticize ideas, not people" is actually a long term solution to our challenges as a forum.

    WE should not be the subject of each other's posts. Our ideas? Yes. Our theological, political, philosophical views? Yes. But not our personalities, our characters, or our faiths. We shouldn't be calling each other robots, or liars, or heretics, or Anti-Christs. Such name-calling is juvenile, for one, but it's also usually simplistic, punitive, judgmental, and mistaken. Most importantly, such name-calling violates the "Criticize ideas, not people" directive to which we gave our unofficial consent when we joined the forums.

    We probably all have preferred explanations for the sad decline in the number of active posters in these forums. I respect and welcome you to your explanations. But common to all of our efforts to restore these forums should be a commitment to the "criticize ideas, not people" expectation. In my view, it's the single most potent step we can take.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,444

    Brethren,

    With time, have we grown or just avoided one another? To grow is to see what one was, compared to where one is. Have the plethora of apparent infractions dissipated by efforts, will, and determination for the greater good, or have we lost interest in the subject matters or interested in hearing one another? Better yet, have all, more or less, taken our religious ball into our perspective corners, waiting for the bell to ring, come back and continue where we left off? CM

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