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Thanks CM!
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Jesus told the disciples to leave town when they saw the signs leading up to the great tribulation. And not one believer remained as Jerusalem fell.
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“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:” (Matthew 24:…
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The first great tribulation was Jewish and happened in 70 CE. Christians suffer great tribulation the entire New Covenant era.
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Why did they leave town if it was meant for future generations with no town to leave?
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Greek Verb tense defines the audience. It was those Jesus spoke to at the time. They would leave town, which they did, when they saw it taking shape.
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I explained this in the OP. The audience determines the timing of the event. And the Great Tribulation happened in 70 AD.
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It is not an assumption. It is fact. And the two tribulations force a late date on Revelation.
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Since Revelation shows only one of two obvious great tribulations, it helps place it at a late date of writing. After the Jewish Great Tribulation.
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This assumes too much. A late date on Revelation would cover only one great tribulation, that of the Church.
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Scripture mentions two great tribulations. We need to keep them separate. The Jewish great tribulation Jesus said would occur in the times of his present audience. (check your Greek verb tenses in Matthew 24). And the great Christian t…
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Antichrist = against Christ or in place of Christ.
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I think it's a difference in interpretation. I agree it = the Papacy as CM pointed out. But also I believe it leaves room for Nero, Islam, certain traits in the US. Etc.
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Not necessarily. Any man = 666 and people wear that number metaphorically whenever they place Antichrist laws above God's law.
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It just says man's number is 666.
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Thanks CM!
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“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;” (Rev…
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The tense rules out any futuristic fulfillment beyond the disciple's life times.
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Check any standard lexicon for the verb tense. = those he spoke to at the time.
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I think Jesus words "when you see" = then, not in the future. This according to the tense of the verb.
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Jesus telling his present audience to expect it solves most of the riddle. And Christian tribulation with false Christs (Papacy in place of Christ) etc. solves the rest.
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If you consider first the great Jewish tribulation fulfilled in 70 CE, then the remaining Christian tribulation remains until the end of the world.
Jesus said "when you see" = you see 2nd person plural = the disciples whom he w…
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That's an interesting thought Wolfgang. I believe the Abomination of Desolation was the continued animal sacrifice "standing" as a formal rejection of Christ by the Jews. So I need to look further into your claims.
The "Temple"…
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I think this is a valid interpretation. It favors the Historicist view of Revelation held by most until recently including the Reformers.
"Man's Number" allows for different Antichrists including Nero, the Papacy, and even tota…
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I think what Augustine was getting at was a false church (temple). Claiming to be God's temple.
If you are a futurist you are still looking for the Antichrist. But the Reformation era churches believed the Papacy was it. Beginn…
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They taught the Papacy was the biggie, but Luther and Calvin also believed Islam was to join in. Here's a brief intro.
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Thanks, Wolfgang for your response. I thought Augustine had a little difficulty using "as" but the word bears out this meaning indirectly. Here's an example for how scripture uses it:
1650 εἰς (eis): prep.; ≡ Str 1519; TDNT 2.4…
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If I were a JW I would hold them accountable to their creed so they don't slip in some truth here and there. The same for those who are beyond the reach of the ecumenical creeds.
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This is the problem. JWs say the same. But creeds are a guarantee you will at least not be led astray on most pivotal doctrines.
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If you cannot hold a church accountable not to stray beyond their charter, you are open for every wind of doctrine.
