The New Testament does not have any explicit statement on the Trinity—apart from 1 John 5:7, which has been rejected as a medieval addition to the text—but the Trinitarian evidence is overwhelming.

Furthermore, there are two factors we must all come to grips:

• First, the term, "Trinity" is NOT found in Scripture.
• Second, the Trinity is a hard concept to understand to our modern, analytical, and mathematical minds. How can three equal one or one equal three?

If we are willing to accept the two above points, please, CD Posters/readers and anti-trinitarian, we do find in Scripture many references to three persons in God. For many people, this truth adds to the confusion in people’s minds. Although the Old Testament emphasizes

• The exclusive unity of God (Deut 6:4; 5:7–11).
• Also its alluion to the plurality of God (Gen 1:2, 26; 11:7; 18:1–33; Exod 23:23).

Of all allusions to this plurality of God in the Old Testament, (e.g. Isa 42:1 and 48:16), they come very close to a Trinitarian formulation. Don't you agree with the points stated above?

Now, let's settle down and mine the Scriptures on an important subject and stop acting like screaming cats on a "hot tin roof". End this biblical Guerrilla warfare, while taking sideswipes at one another's name and character. Jesus is clearly described as divine in the gospel of John (John 1:1–3; 20:28). Jesus, himself, proclaims his own divinity (John 8:58).

In the New Testament we also find clear references to the three persons of the Godhead.

• All three are mentioned at the baptism of Jesus (Matt 3:16–17).
• During the Lord’s Supper Jesus comforts his disciples with the thought that he and the Father would send the Holy Spirit to guide them after his departure (John 14:16–17).
• All three persons are part of the baptismal formula found in Jesus’ great commission to his disciples (Matt 28:19)
  • Paul readily refers to all three persons in many of his epistles (Rom 8:9–11; 2 Cor 13:14; 2 Tim 1:3–14; Eph 1:13–14; 3:14–19).
  • Peter acknowledges the work of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the salvation of people (1 Pet 1:2).
  • John is a witness of the Spirit’s testimony regarding Jesus, the Son of God (1 John 5:5–9).
  • The book of Revelation -- presents three persons involved in the final events of this world (Rev 1:4–5; 22:16–18).

Despite these biblical evidences to the triune God, it becomes somewhat ambivalent for some people because the Holy Spirit is often referred to with metaphors of objects:

• A dove (Matt 3:16)
• The wind (John 3:8)
• Fire (Isa 6:6, 7)
• Water (John 7:37–39)
• Oil (Matt 25:1–4).

Moreover, adding to this ambivalence are some New Testament statements that appear to refer to Jesus as having had a beginning when he is referred to as “begotten” (monogenes) or “firstborn of all creation” (prototokos) (John 3:16; Col 1:15).

The doctrine of the Trinity brings up some issues:

Historically, the doctrine of the Trinity is closely connected with the Christological disputes the early church struggled with. The early church through a series of councils:

• Confirmed the eternal divinity of Jesus.
• Opened the way for a clarification of the relationship between God the Father and Jesus.

In addition, the the early church needed to clarify the relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit and involved acceptance of Jesus as Savior and Lord. This meant that the Trinity found its way into the creeds of the church. The Niceo-Constantinopolitan creed confesses in part that:

Any student of history knows that the later western versions of the Nicene Creed added the clause: “who proceeds from the Father .” The addition of this clause was one of the issues that led to the great schism between east and west in 1054.

Until next time, let's search the Scriptures with an opened mind and little more humility. Let's allow the spotlight of truth to shine and reveal the organic roots, stems, growth and development of the one God self-revealed in Scripture as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This important subject must not be bannered about like a common-debate for self-agrandizement. CM

SOURCE:

• G. W. Bromiley, “Trinity,” in Walter A. Elwell, ed., Evangelical Dictionary of Theology (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1984), 1112.
• Alister E. McGrath, Historical Theology: An Introduction to the History of Christian Thought (Malden: Blackwell, 1998), 61.
• Roger E. Olson, The Story of Christian Theology: Twenty Centuries of Tradition & Reform (Downers Grove: InterVarsity, 1999), 195–196.

• Trinitarians falsely proclaim that God has No Name
• Trinitarians falsely proclaim that God's Name cannot be found in the Greek or NT
• Jesus' Name when translated means 'Jehovah is Our Righteousness'
• John's Name when translated means 'Jehovah has been Gracious'
• Matthew's Name when translated means "Gift of Jehovah'

So they are many Names that Have Jehovah in them in the Greek! Jesus - John - Matthew - to list a few.

The divine name appears in its abbreviated form in the Christian Greek Scriptures. At Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6, the divine name is embedded in the word “Hallelujah.” This comes from a Hebrew expression that literally means “Praise Jah.” “Jah” is a contraction of the name Jehovah. Many names used in the Christian Greek Scriptures were derived from the divine name. In fact, reference works explain that Jesus’ own name means “Jehovah Is Salvation.”

You may be surprised to find out that the trinity doctrine does not accept Jesus Christ.  It omits Christ from its doctrine and promotes a false gospel that ‘three separate persons make up God’ which is not found in Any Bible. Trinitarians profess that John 1:1 explains their theology of ‘three separate persons ’. It does not. Therefore, it is not unusual to come across an apostate trinitarian who will deny and oppose the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Trinitarians proclaim Jesus is co-equal to his God while Jesus himself proclaims "the Father is Greater than I am." (John 14:28) When Jesus Christ stated that ‘God is a Spirit’ in (John 4:24) trinitarians proclaim that Christ under the inspiration of Holy Spirit somehow mis-spoken because their doctrine teaches that God is made up of three separate Persons which is never cited in any scripture.  In John 17:1 Jesus addresses his Father in prayer, he said: “Father,… and in John 17:3  he states, “This means everlasting life, their coming to know You, the only true God” Was Jesus addressing God the Father or the trinity of three separate persons?

Trinitarians proclaim Jesus was not addressing the trinity itself, but God the Father.  Wouldn’t that prove that the trinity to be a False God?  “He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.” (2 Thessalonians 2:4)

As Jesus continue his teachings about God, he states, “God is a Spirit, and those worshipping Him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:24)  Notice those worshiping HIM is in singular?  Not ‘us’ ‘we’ they’ ‘them’ or even ME.  Since trinitarians admit that the trinity is not God itself, aren’t trinitarians worshipping ‘gods’?  None of them worship God the Father alone who Jesus claims to be the only true God in (John 17:3)  Jesus Christ continues, “Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship HIM.” (John 4:23)

According to Jesus, only the Father was to be worshipped, not a trinity of ‘gods’.  Jesus made his Father’s Name known to his disciples. “I have made Your Name Manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word.” (John 17:6)  Jesus even went as far to teach his disciples to pray this way: “Our Father in the heavens, let Your Name be sanctified.” 

If you take a closer look at the trinity doctrine, NONE of the Persons have a NAME.  It’s a Generic Formula borrowed from Pagan Worship. Trinitarians shout and yell that, Jesus is God.  But the trinity itself simply doesn’t give witness about Jesus Christ. When asked to show the doctrine they often turn red and say that I must simply believe them.  Then I ask, since the trinity doesn’t state that Jesus is God, show one scripture that states that. They hee and haw in frustration and begin to taunt and curse not able to find a single verse. You won’t find God the Son or God the Holy Spirit in the Bible because it simply isn’t.  There is a HUGE difference from God the Son and the Son of God.  If Jesus is the son of God, then whose Son is he?  The trinity doesn’t have three sons does it?

Jesus is not the only person to give witness about his God and Father.  The Apostles would greet one another with a similar phrase.  “Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,” (1 Peter 1:3)   The trinity omits the Name of Christ and refuses to acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh.  Matter of fact, here is what the scriptures state about those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” (2 John 7)

In Ancient times, the trinity was symbolized by three snakes, each snake would chase its own tail looking like the number 666.   “And it was permitted to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast.” (Rev 13:15) 

The trinity is the Biggest Occult ever, with a Worldwide membership of 2.8 Billion People and growing!  Mankind who are both weak or strong, slave or king, such ones march in the streets to protest.  They place themselves above others claiming they have rights that no one else can have.  They proclaim they even have the right to end life, should they carry a life inside them. They make themselves like God in know good and bad, and others have to bend their knee to their superiority.  (Read 2 Timothy 3:1-5)

“For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,” (Hebrews 10:26) Feel free to contact me if you wish to leave the occult of the trinity.  There is HELP.

The only Bible writer to use the word “antichrist” is the apostle John. Note these words in the first letter bearing his name:

“Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of our sort . . . Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.”—1 John 2:18, 19, 22.

Therefore, the Anti-Christ would come up with a Universal teaching that opposes Jesus as the Christ, the son of the living God. (Mathhew 16:16)

Yet, at the same time, they deny Jesus' Divinity. Claimed Jesus was born (just a man) or, at best, an angel who receives worship but shouldn't. Believe this, Jesus was has returned, and there is no resurrection. They questioned his birth, his name, self-identification, His oneness: Co-equal, co-eternal, with the Father and the Holy Spirit (God). They seem to exalt human reason above faith and revelation. Above all, this Jesus, they claimed to love, call on, pray to and teach others, is "a god" according to John 1:1 (NWT), and a few obscured Bible Translations (done by individuals, lacked reliable gk/Heb texts, or had access to the latest biblical finds).

CD Posters, can they love Christ, accept him, and deny him simultaneously? I am asking the remaining Anti-Trinitarian Trio ( @BroRando,  @Bill_Coley, and  @theMadJW ) in a simple straight forward way to reconcile this apparent contradiction. I prefer each one to respond individually, but I will accept a joint response.

Until then, I would like to name above: Are you a practitioner of self-deception and knowingly peddling Fool-ology? Correct me if I am wrong if I misrepresented your position. By all means, state your position clearly and concisely. It looks like this remaining anti-Trinitarian Trio is trying to have its religious cake and eat it too. CM

*Fool-ology -- I define this as the study of foolishness. CM

A source to consider :

• Bentivegna, J. “A Christianity without Christ by Theophilus of Antioch.” Studia Patristica 13 (1975): 107-130.

The trinity teaches God is made up of three seperate persons. Yet, trintarians themselves are in conflict with this doctrine. They oftrn dismiss their own teaching of three seperate persons by claiming only one or two of the three seperate pesons is God.

These seprate persons have No Names thus many trinitarians teach that God has No Name. Doesn't Everyone have a Name?

The scripture at Matthew 28:19 today doesn’t read as it did in the first century. Matthew who was born of the Levi tribe, first wrote his book in his native tongue, (Hebrew). So let’s visit the Actual Scripture. “Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations in MY Name,” (Shem Tov Hebrew Matthew 28:19)  Note: Scripture is under scrutiny and research for possible correction due to new findings from sources familiar with the deception.

The trinity doctrine never acknowledges Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” (2 John 7) The foreign doctrine removes Jesus Christ by omission and teaches a different Jesus as it promotes a false baptism by replacing Christ with its own doctrine.

Notice this admission. The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263: “The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.”

Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger: 

• He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19. “The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome.” — Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) Introduction to Christianity: 1968 edition, pp. 82, 83.

That's right, an admission that the baptism text came from the Pagan City of Rome. None of the Apostles baptized anyone in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit in the first century. NONE!

Scripture also says that by the authority of Jesus, people would be told to turn to God and change the way they think and act so that their sins will be forgiven. This would be told to people from all nations, beginning in the city of Jerusalem. ‘…and on the basis of his Name, repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preached in all the nations—starting out from Jerusalem.’ (Luke 24:46-47)

Get more details.

A good numbr of trinitarians believe that the trinity is inspired of God. Ask, what scripture is the trinity in. Most will throw up several scriptures. Usually something... well anything to do with (3). You can easily compare their trinity doctrine to scripture. If the person refuses to show his trinity doctrine, then you are dealing with someone who is decptive and only seeking to stumble you. So please be careful.

Jesus Christ stated that in the time of the end, "The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be." (Matthew 13:41-42)

So time is of the essence... it will take some work since most tend to be brainwashed in seeing things that are not really in the Bible. The trinity replaces Jesus Christ for salvation, so don't be surprised when they reject the blood and body of Christ. Simply find some good info on exposing the pagan doctrine.

Does it read God was with God?

The scriptures state what is necessary in order to be saved. “For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.” (Romans 10:9)

Sadly, there are almost 2.8 Billion people on earth who believe in a false gospel of the trinity. It never admits that “Jesus is Lord” nor does it make the claim that God raised Jesus up from the dead.

It promotes a false gospel of salvation and refuses to acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” (2 John 7)

If you looked up the trinity doctrine, you would have to close the Bible and look into apostate books that have the man-made doctrine from the Superfine Apostles that reject Jesus is ‘the Christ the son of the living God.’ (Matthew 16:16) The three persons have no names. It is a generic formula borrowed and copied from pagan religions. Jesus Christ is completely absent from the trinity doctrine.

To request a Free Non-Contact Home Bible Study click here.

You may be surprised to find out that the trinity doctrine does not accept Jesus Christ.  It omits Christ from its doctrine and promotes a false gospel that ‘three separate persons make up God’ which is not found in Any Bible. Trinitarians profess that John 1:1 explains their theology of ‘three separate persons ’. It does not. Therefore, it is not unusual to come across an apostate trinitarian who will deny and oppose the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Trinitarians proclaim Jesus is co-equal to his God while Jesus himself proclaims "the Father is Greater than I am." (John 14:28) When Jesus Christ stated that ‘God is a Spirit’ in (John 4:24) trinitarians proclaim that Christ under the inspiration of Holy Spirit somehow mis-spoken because their doctrine teaches that God is made up of three separate Persons which is never cited in any scripture.  In John 17:1 Jesus addresses his Father in prayer, he said: “Father,… and in John 17:3  he states, “This means everlasting life, their coming to know You, the only true God” Was Jesus addressing God the Father or the trinity of three separate persons?

Trinitarians proclaim Jesus was not addressing the trinity itself, but God the Father.  Wouldn’t that prove that the trinity to be a False God?  “He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.” (2 Thessalonians 2:4)

As Jesus continue his teachings about God, he states, “God is a Spirit, and those worshipping Him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:24)  Notice those worshiping HIM is in singular?  Not ‘us’ ‘we’ they’ ‘them’ or even ME.  Since trinitarians admit that the trinity is not God itself, aren’t trinitarians worshipping ‘gods’?  None of them worship God the Father alone who Jesus claims to be the only true God in (John 17:3)  Jesus Christ continues, “Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship HIM.” (John 4:23)

If you take a closer look at the trinity doctrine, NONE of the Persons have a NAME.  It’s a Generic Formula borrowed from Pagan Worship. Trinitarians shout and yell that, Jesus is God.  But the trinity itself simply doesn’t give witness about Jesus Christ. When asked to show the doctrine they often turn red and say that I must simply believe them.  Then I ask, since the trinity doesn’t state that Jesus is God, show one scripture that states that. They hee and haw in frustration and begin to taunt and curse not able to find a single verse. You won’t find God the Son or God the Holy Spirit in the Bible because it simply isn’t.  There is a HUGE difference from God the Son and the Son of God.  If Jesus is the son of God, then whose Son is he?  The trinity doesn’t have three sons does it?

Jesus is not the only person to give witness about his God and Father.  The Apostles would greet one another with a similar phrase.  “Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,” (1 Peter 1:3)   The trinity omits the Name of Christ and refuses to acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh.  Matter of fact, here is what the scriptures state about those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” (2 John 7)

In Ancient times, the trinity was symbolized by three snakes, each snake would chase its own tail looking like the number 666.   “And it was permitted to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast.” (Rev 13:15) 

“For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,” (Hebrews 10:26)

Read more...

You may be surprised to find out that the trinity doctrine does not accept Jesus Christ.  It promotes a false gospel that ‘three separate persons make up God’ which is unbiblical. Trinitarians profess that John 1:1 explains their theology of ‘three separate persons make up God’. It does not. Therefore, it is not unusual to come across an apostate trinitarian who deny the teachings of Jesus Christ.

When Jesus Christ stated that ‘God is a Spirit’ in (John 4:24) trinitarians proclaim that Christ was lying because their doctrine teaches that God is made up of three separate PERSONS.  In John 17:1 Jesus addresses his Father in prayer, he said: “Father,… and in John 17:3  he states, “This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God”  Was Jesus addressing God the Father or the trinity of three separate persons?

Trinitarians proclaim he was not addressing the trinity itself, but God the Father.  Wouldn’t that prove that the trinity is a False God?  “He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.” (2 Thessalonians 2:4)

As Jesus continue his teachings he states, “God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:24)  Notice those worshiping HIM is in singular?  Not ‘us’ ‘we’ they’ ‘them’ or even ME.  Since trinitarians admit that the trinity is not God itself, aren’t trinitarians worshipping ‘gods’?  None of them worship God the Father alone who Jesus claims to be the only true God in (John 17:3)  Jesus Christ continues, “Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.” (John 4:23)

According to Jesus, only the Father was to be worshipped, not a trinity of ‘gods’.  Jesus made his Father’s Name known to his disciples. “I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word.” (John 17:6)  Jesus even went as far to teach his disciples to pray this way: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.” 

If you take a closer look at the trinity doctrine, NONE of the Persons have a NAME.  It’s a Generic Formula borrowed from Pagan Worship. Trinitarians shout and yell that, Jesus is God in the trinity.  But the trinity itself simply doesn’t give witness about Jesus Christ. When asked to show the doctrine they often turn red and say that I must simply believe them.  Then I ask, since the trinity doesn’t state that Jesus is God, show one scripture that states that. They hee and haw in frustration and begin to taunt and curse not able to find a single verse. You won’t find God the Son or God the Holy Spirit in the Bible because it simply isn’t.  There is a HUGE difference from God the Son and son of God.  If Jesus is the son of God, then whose son is he?  The trinity doesn’t have three sons does it?

Jesus is not the only person to give witness about his God and Father.  The Apostles would greet one another with a similar phrase.  “Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,” (1 Peter 1:3)   The trinity omits the Name of Christ and refuses to acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh.  Matter of fact, here is what the scriptures state about the trinity. “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” (2 John 7)

Have you accepted the mark of the Beast and not even know it?  In Ancient times, the trinity was symbolized by three snakes, each snake would chase its own tail looking like the number 666.   A time is coming, if you refuse to worship the trinity, you will be put to death.  “And it was permitted to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast.” (Rev 13:15) 

 The trinity is the Biggest Occult ever, with a Worldwide membership of 2.8 Billion People and growing!  Mankind who are both weak or strong, slave or king, such ones march in the streets to promote or protest.  They place themselves above others claiming they have rights that no one else can have.  They proclaim they even have the right to end life, should they carry a life inside them. They make themselves godlike and others have to bend to their superiority.  (Read 2 Timothy 3:1-5)

Those who deny Wisdom, have actually denied Christ and have already accepted the mark of the Beast willingly.  “For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,” (Hebrews 10:26)

Feel free to contact me if you wish to leave the occult of the trinity.  There is HELP.

Trinity is a hard concept to understand. There are three persons in God. Yet, the Old Testament emphasizes:

• The exclusive unity of God (Deut 6:4; 5:7–11).
• Alludes to the plurality of God (Gen 1:2, 26; 11:7; 18:1–33; Exod 23:23).
• This plurality of God in the OT, Isa 42:1 and 48:16, comes very close to a Trinitarian formulation.

The New Testament does not have any explicit statement on the Trinity—

• 1 John 5:7, is referred to by many but it has been rejected as a medieval addition to the text.

Notwithstanding, Trinitarian evidence is overwhelming.

• Jesus is clearly described as divine in the gospel of John (John 1:1–3; 20:28).
• Jesus, himself, proclaims his own divinity (John 8:58).
• In the NT, we find references to the three persons of the Godhead:
  • All three are mentioned at the baptism of Jesus (Matt 3:16–17).
  • During the Lord’s Supper, Jesus comforts his disciples with the thought that he and the Father would send the Holy Spirit to guide them after his departure (John 14:16–17).
  • All three persons are part of the baptismal formula found in Jesus’ great commission to his disciples (Matt 28:19).
  • Paul readily refers to all three persons in many of his epistles (Rom 8:9–11; 2 Cor 13:14; 2 Tim 1:3–14; Eph 1:13–14; 3:14–19).
  • Peter acknowledges the work of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the salvation of people (1 Pet 1:2).
  • John is a witness of the Spirit’s testimony regarding Jesus, the Son of God (1 John 5:5–9).
  • The book of Revelation also presents three persons involved in the final events of this world (Rev 1:4–5; 22:16–18).

All these biblical evidence to the triune God causes concern for some people because the Holy Spirit is often referred to with metaphors of objects:

• A dove (Matt 3:16)
• The wind (John 3:8)
• Fire (Isa 6:6, 7)
• Water (John 7:37–39)
• Oil (Matt 25:1–4)

In addition, New Testament statements appear to refer to Jesus as having had a beginning when he is referred to as “begotten” (monogenes) or “firstborn of all creation” (prototokos) (John 3:16; Col 1:15).

In history, the doctrine of the Trinity in the early church struggled with the Trinity. When the early church addressed it through a series of councils confirming the eternal divinity of Jesus. With the acceptance of Jesus as Savior and Lord, the Trinity quickly found its way into the creeds of the church.

The Niceo-Constantinopolitan creed

Please Note: Later western versions of the Nicene Creed added the filioque clause:

The addition of this clause was one of the issues that led to the great schism between east and west in 1054.

The early church fathers gave us the vocabulary we use and discuss today:

• Irenaeus spoke of the “economy of salvation,” in which each member of the Godhead has a distinct yet related role.
• Tertullian argued that “substance” is what unites while “person” is what distinguishes the members of the Godhead. “The three persons of the Trinity are distinct, yet not divided, different yet not separate or independent of each other.” 
• The eastern Cappadocian fathers expanded on Tertullian’s thought and tended to emphasize the distinct individuality of the three persons while safeguarding their unity by stressing the fact that both the Son and the Spirit derived from the Father. Note: Cappadocian fathers, Orthodox theology teaches that the Son is the “only begotten” of the Father and the Holy Spirit “proceeds” from the Father. 
  • They spoke of one “substance” (ousia) in three “persons” (hypostases).” 

One needs to be aware the that vocabulary and thought used today assumed ancient Greek dualism and metaphysics, which are very distant and confusing to us now.

Augustine's theology of the Trinity was based on the concept of relationship and on the bond of love between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This doctrine continued to experienced challenges to this day.

• Arianism holds that the Son was created by nature and did not exist before the Father brought him into existence. As such the Son is subordinate to the Father’s authority (subordinationism). Arians have also consistently denied the personhood of the Holy Spirit.

The many forms of Modalism:

• Sabellianism -- teaches that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three different modes or manifestations of the same God at different times.
• Monarchianism -- is a form of modalism that denied the plurality of God. It holds that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are a succession of modes or operations; they are not separate persons.
• Socinianism had been criticizing the doctrine of the Trinity on both biblical and rational grounds.

I don't accept the traditional Platonic dualistic worldview and metaphysics that were foundational to the church fathers’ theology of the Trinity, one of these being the concept of the immortality of the soul.

Do we have common ground on the development of this doctrine thus far? In view of the texts cited above isn't it clear that Trinitarian evidence is overwhelming? CM

@Bill_Coley said:

CM RESPONDED:

I am sorry that Bill, for personal reasons, can’t respond to this post directly. I guess I have to settle for responses from his appointed surrogate. It’s always best to get his views directly, however. With some reflections and a little more study, I would like to add to my limited response by looking deeper at the trinity in the OT:

A general term used to designate God is Elohim, a plural form of EL/Eloah. The term elohim is used 2,603 times in the Hebrew Bible according to Abraham. Several names or titles are used in the Hebrew Scripture for God, like: 

• Yahweh (“LORD”)
• El (“God”)
• Elohim (“God”)
• Elyon (“Most High”) 
• El Elyon (“God Most High”) 
• Adonay (“Lord”)
• Shadday (“Almighty”)
• El Shadday (“God Almighty”), etc. 

Another title as a grammatical plural for the living God (besides Elohim) is Adonay (“Lord”). This term is used only for the true God and never designates pagan gods. He is the Lord of His household. See, for examples, Gen 18:30; Exod 34:23; Deut 10:17; Josh 3:11, 13; Pss 35:23; 45:11; 114:7; 135:5; Isa 6:1; Dan 1:2; Mal 1:6. 

However, to state that the plural form of the word elohim is evidence for the Triune God is incorrect for the simple reason that this term is used to designate the true living God as well as pagan gods; its meaning depends on the context. "The word elohim is unique in its 'flexibility'—it can be used both in the singular and the plural meaning, as a proper and a common name, as a designation of the God of Israel and of pagan gods".

An example of these two opposite meanings is encountered in Ruth 1:15–16:

Now, you see, one cannot argue from the plural form of Elohim for the notion of the Trinity. The term Elohim does not refer to three persons or three gods. It is rather a neutral expression; only the context decides what the precise meaning of the word is. 

What is highly significant is that the name Elohim is used with a verb in the singular (a grammatical contradiction). For example, “In the beginning God [plural] created [singular] the heaven and the earth” (Gen 1:1). 

For exceptions to this rule when the plural verb is used with Elohim, see Gen. 20:13; 35:7; Ps 58:11. 

• God is called “Creator” (singular) in Isa 40:28; but in Eccl 12:1 for the expression of “Creator,” the plural form of bara’ is used. 
• God is designated as “” in the plural form of ‘ in Job 35:10; Ps 149:2; Isa 54:5. 
• Plural adjectives that describe God as holy are in Josh 24:19 and Prov 9:10; 30:3. 

As with Elohim, the same is true about the ten expressions of vayomer Elohim meaning “and God [plural] said [singular]” in the first Creation account (Gen 1). The translation is thus not “gods,” but “God,” the one true living God. It is also crucial to note that pagan gods are never designated in the Bible by the name of the Lord (Yahweh). This name is used exclusively for the God who entered into a covenant relationship with His people! Later, I will look into the “We” of God. I hope this helps to bring about a better understanding. CM

SOURCES:

• Even-Shoshan, A New Concordance of the Old Testament (Jerusalem: Kiryat Sefer Publishing House, 1993), 69–74.
• L. Berkhof, Systematic Theology (4th rev. and enlarge. ed.; Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1979), 85-86 
• Allan Coppedge, The God Who Is Triune: Revisiting the Christian Doctrine of God (Downers Grove, IL.: IVP Academic, InterVarsity Press, 2007), 71-72

(a) What you think?

(b) Which presenter or presenters arguments were conniving to you? and why?

(c) Which presenter or presenters argument were unconvincing to you? and why?

(d) How would you answer the questions?

I think that no matter what side of the issue of the Trinity ideology/theology we on these forums can at least agree on the following:

(1) The word/term Trinity is never once used in Scripture.

(2) No synonym or analogous word/term with a meaning like or similar to Trinity is used or to be found in Scripture.

(3) No, clear and detailed ontological explanation of the theology Trinity that resembles what we find in the later creeds of the Catholic Church/Orthodox Church nor in the confessions/theologies of the protestant Church is to be found in Scripture.

What do you think? Can or Do will all agree with the above? Or, is the above wrong or misleading? Please explain why and provided detail and scripture support.

I know the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible. To be crystal clear, I am most interested in the genesis of the formation and trinitarian teachings. Any references to a book, websites, quote of the fathers, etc., would be helpful.

Please share the historical facts with some references, please! If you are not sure or have historical facts, feel free to pass this thread. At least, for this thread, take a little time and do some research before responding. I would appreciate it greatly. It's alright if you don't have anything concrete to add at this time. When you do so, please share, in light of what is requested.

What are the basics of the Athanasian Creed? Is this the creed upon which the entirety of the Roman Catholic faith is built? Does the Athanasian Creed (Roman Catholic Creed) say that the one God is three divine personalities in one indivisible substance or essence?

The three in one God idea came from Athanasius, whose teacher was Origen, who “believed in the doctrine of Purgatory, transubstantiation, transmigration of the soul and reincarnation of the soul. The Scriptures were not literal.” — (See Dr. Ken Matto, Origen's Gnostic Belief System). Happy searching. CM

If one, therefore, believes in the One true God and accepts The Messiah known as Jesus(sic)/Yeshua (and also believes in the Holy Spirit) is it really necessary for them to accept, believe, or understand the 'systematic' doctrine of Trinity?

Step one: Answer Yes, Maybe, or No
Step two: Provide Scriptural references
Step three: Explain and elaborate on how each of those scriptural references leads you to your conclusion(s).

Testing the Trinitarian 'hypothesis'...in the Old Testament
http://christianthinktank.com/trin02.html

The NT Witness: The Ancient Church Formulas in the NT
http://christianthinktank.com/trin03a.html

Good question…does Jesus' submission to the Father disprove His deity?
http://christianthinktank.com/theoudelphia.html

Christian Distinctives: The Trinity
http://christianthinktank.com/trin01.html

Let's Talk about.... the "Trinity"
http://christianthinktank.com/trinity.html

Once upon a time there was a little village in the desert. All inhabitants of this village were blind. One day a great king with his army passed by. He was riding a huge elephant. The blind had heard many stories about elephants and desired to approach the king and touch and investigate his elephant in order to get an idea of what elephants are like. Some of them stepped forward, bowed before the king and asked for permission to touch his elephant.

The first blind man grasped his trunk, another one his leg and foot, and a third his flank. One man seized his ear, and still another was allowed to ride on the back of the elephant. Delighted with their discoveries the blind men returned to their village. The people encircled them and asked eagerly what kind of being the monstrous animal elephant was. The first one said: “It is an immense hose, and woe to him who will be grabbed by it.” The second one responded: “It is a pillar clothed with skin and hair.” The third said: “It is like a rampart having also skin and hair.” The man, who had seized the ear, replied: “It is not a wall at all but a very thick carpet which moves as soon as one touches it.” And the last one declared: “This is all nonsense. It is a huge mountain which moves.”

Similarly, we are like these blind men in our efforts to describe God. He surpasses us so much, He is so highly exalted and lives in a sphere significantly different from ours that He is not totally accessible to us. What we know about Him is what He has revealed to us. Therefore, we have only parts of all that can be known about God. However, these parts are true and allow us to relate to God and be saved.

I ran across this story. I don't know the origin. A helpful tool to understand the Trinity. What think ye? CM

Romans 10:9-10 - "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

The doctrine of the Trinity (Lat. trinitas “tri-unity” or “three-in-oneness”) is one of the most important doctrines of the Christian faith. However, the term “Godhead” is used which is found in Romans 1:20 and Colossians 2:9. Through the word “Godhead” the same idea is expressed by the term “Trinity,” that there are three living person in the Godhead. Let us not forget, there a warning against false teaching found in Paul’s letter to the Colossians. The apostle declares that the hearts of the believers are to be “knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

There are two main ways of explaining the Trinity over the years:

Trinitarian speculations.

Trinitarian speculations consisted in interpreting the divine nature by analogies drawn from human nature. Many have tried to explain a threefold distinction within the Deity and attempts to explain it are not wanting in number. From the Cappadocian Fathers—Basil, Gregory of Nyssa, and Gregory Nazianzen—to the so-called Athanasian Creed or the more recent Hegelian and Barthian interpretations, not to mention Augustine, speculative Christian theologians, beginning with a humble confession or the incomprehensibility of the divine nature and the limitations of human speculation, cheerfully went on to interpret the relations of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit within the Deity, each one in terms of then-accepted discrimination of substance. “Hypostasis,” “nature” and “person” were among the preferred terms.
[one can see the excessively lengthy and complex course of trinitarian speculation through succeeding centuries (See sources below).

The Trinity of Revelation.

It is a declaration concerning God based on a revelation; not only on the self-disclosure of God but also on a disclosure of the truth of God. Therefore, it is an objective reality and, in the strictest sense, an affirmation of theology. The recognition of the Holy Spirit—as truly fully divine, parallel and equal to the Father is—first of all, the object of a revelation. This is how God wills to make himself known to man.

The divine Triad is met only in God’s revelation. It is therefore impossible to speak about God’s triune nature independent of the Scriptures. We must abide by the testimony of the OT and NT. This means that the Bible exceeds all the psychological and physiological analogies. When we speak of divine “persons” we do so because the Scriptures enforce this conclusion upon us. We do so because this is how the biblical writers under Inspiration try to make us understand the relationship existing between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

It’s unfortunate that the Trinity of speculation had triumphed over the Trinity of revelation and experience over the years. We hold fast to the Bible revelation of God. Who can know God except he reveals himself?

Three distinct Persons in the unity of God.

The word “person,” at this point, requires more particular notice. According to the ordinary rules of language-interpretation of the Scripture, nothing is more certain than that there is but one God. [See for instance Deut 4:39; 2 Ki 19:51; Ps 88:10; Is 44:6,9; Mk 12:29, 32]. This should never be forgotten. It is the very foundation of our doctrine of God.

By the same use of language rules, we also learn that there are three in whom we are to believe. The highest names and perfections are attributed to them throughout the Holy Writings. The Scriptures seem to indicate that these three are all persons because they are described as doing that which only intelligent agents or persons can do. Is not this sufficient authority for applying the term “persons” to them?

Finally, the same authoritative source tells us that they are distinct, not merely in relation to us, as Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier, but in relation to each other as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is sufficient authority for calling them distinct Persons, although the danger always exists that one may tend to tritheism.

Just because some practices, terms or concept overlaps with paganism or mythology it doesn't mean that its origin or teachings are from or depended on them. For example, the Creation and Flood Stories of Bible are not from or dependent upon Babylonian accounts. Upon close examination, it is clearly shown that they are not the same. Ancient mythologies DO NOT drive biblical teachings, principles, concepts or practices.

We are not to surrender God’s revelation of himself "ancient mythology and mystery religions." It's not true that "more honest and recognized theological scholars of a Trinitarian background even openly admit and state that there was no such Trinity teaching in existence at the times of Acts and not until some time later."

God himself is a mystery, how much more the incarnation or the Trinity. However, that should not trouble us as long as the different aspects of these mysteries are clearly taught in Scripture. Even though we may not be able to comprehend logically the various aspects of the Trinity, we need to try and understand as best as we can the scriptural teaching regarding it. All attempts to explain the Trinity will fall short, “especially when we reflect on the relation of the three persons to the divine essence ... all analogies fail us and we become deeply conscious of the fact that the Trinity is a mystery far beyond our comprehension. It is the incomprehensible glory of the Godhead.” Therefore, we do well to admit that “man cannot comprehend it and make it intelligible. It is intelligible in some of its relations and modes of manifestations, but unintelligible in its essential nature.” (See Sources below). “There are many mysteries which we do not understand or can explain."

Trinitarian Confessions
Do the apostles think of the Holy Spirit as divine, as a divine person distinct both from the Father and from the Son?

Several passages can speak for themselves:

1. Paul mentions all three persons together. In one of his very earliest writings:

• “But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this, he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Thess. 2:13, 14).

2. It is evident that God, Christ, and the Spirit are in foremost in Paul’s mind. First Corinthians 12:4-6 agrees with this: “Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one.”
3. The triadic pattern is clearly seen. In an attempt to bring together basic values of the Christian faith Paul ended his second Epistle to the Corinthians with these words: “The grace or the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all” (2 Cor 13:14).

• When we place things side by side or in position, the three divine persons come together in a clear trinitarian confession. There are many other texts of Paul that reveals when closely examined the influence of a threefold pattern. See for instance Rom 15:30; Gal 4:6; 2 Cor 1:21, 22; Eph 3:14-16; Tit 3:4-6.

4. The Gospel of Matthew also ends clearly with the three persons found in their now traditional order:
   “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Mt 28:19).

The fact that in these statements we have a trinitarian formula seems inescapable. I repeat it's erroneous to say that the doctrine of the Trinity is postbiblical and answers a problem which did not occur to the writers or the NT. Later as we look at the Trinity in Scripture… CM

Sources:

-- Louis Berkhof, Systematic Theology (Eerdmans, 1941), 88-89.
-- Henry P. vanDusen, Spirit, Son, and Father (New York, 1958), 149-177.
-- H.A.W. Turner, The Pattern of Christian Truth (London, 1954).] Note, also, the carefully documented Bampton lectures.

Verse 1: "YHWH appeared to him." This is clearly the introduction to the event that is just about to happen. Appear = Hebrew gâlâh, in the LEB translated as see, look, appear, show, examine. This word is almost only used as visual perception of a physical thing or being, or of God. Very few times it is used figuratively.
Verse 2: "Three men were standing near him." Man = Hebrew ʾîš, in the LEB translated as man or person, and on spot checking referring to a human being in the majority of all cases.

There is at least one example where ʾîš unequivocally refers to God. Genesis 32:25. In Genesis 32:30 Jacob calls the person God (Elohim), not knowing his personal name at that time.

"He bowed down to the ground". Bow = Hebrew ḥā·wā. The LEB translates as bow down or worship. It is unclear whether Abraham worshipped the three visitors.

Verse 3: "My Lord" = Hebrew ʾǎḏō·nāy refers to God or to a human lord. Since we know that YHWH appeared visually, physically to Abraham, Adonay in this case means God, not a human lord.

Verse 8: "And he was standing by them under the tree while they ate." This is setting the scene of the upcoming conversation.
Verse 9: "And they said to him" all three of them.
"And he said" Abraham replies.
Verse 10: "And he said" one of the three visitors replies.
Interlude: Sarah laughs at the reply.
Verse 13: "Then YHWH said to Abraham".

At this point, I could continue through the second conversation between Abraham and YHWH about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, but really there can be no more doubt here that either one of the three visitors is YHWH, or all three of the visitors are YHWH. "They", "He" and "YHWH" are used interchangeably in this passage.

If one of them is YHWH, then that proves that He can become a physical human, able to eat bread and beef.
If all three of them are YHWH, then this additionally proves the Trinity.

Some interesting trivia I've noted on the side:

• Just like Adam, Moses and Jacob, Abraham and Sarah were allowed to see God face to face and live.
• YHWH reveals his personal name to Abraham. I wonder how it could have been forgotten by the people by the time of Moses.

Where in the bible is the doctrine of the Trinity mentioned? Where is it explicitly defined? Where does it say that there are 3 persons in 1 God? What about Hypostatic union? Is that doctrine in the scriptures?

https://forums.catholic.com/t/why-do-sola-scriptura-protestants-believe-in-the-trinity/228703

Just a question out of curiosity. Why do Protestant sects who adhere to Sola-Scriptura--that is, Bible Only, believe in the doctrine of the Trinity? The Trinity was developed by the Church and is never explicitly explained in the Bible. Sure, it may have been briefly implied in certain instances, but there are not any smoking-gun proof passages in the Bible that support the Trinity as far as I know. Most of the purely Biblical arguments in support of the Trinity seem rather unconvincing and built more on speculation than the actual Bible to be honest. I don't see how you can believe these arguments and believe in the Trinity UNLESS you accepted the authority of the Church and extra-biblical sources--something that most Protestant sects refuse to do.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=48326.0