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        <title>Pope — Christian Debate</title>
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        <pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2026 12:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
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            <description>Pope — Christian Debate</description>
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        <title>Should Priests Marry?</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/783/should-priests-marry</link>
        <pubDate>Tue, 11 Feb 2020 19:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>C Mc</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">783@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>Did God intend for men to remain single for any reason? Is there a cause in society (past or present) that a man <strong>must</strong> refrain from marriage? Is this unnatural? Remaining single as a minister, <strong>is this biblical</strong> or just a Catholic thing?</p><p>The former pope -the German intellectual Joseph Ratzinger- who has given himself the title of "emeritus" pope, Benedict XVI, a learned theologian who "<strong><em>ruffled feathers in April 2019, when in a long text he blamed paedophilia within the church on the 1960s sexual revolution and an absence of God in modern society</em></strong>".</p><p>The current Pope seems to be leaning toward "married priests". Who is right, Joseph Ratzinger or Pope Francis? Wouldn't married priests help stem the <strong>century old, <em>paedophilia </em></strong>problem in the RCC<strong><em>? </em>CM</strong></p><p><br /></p><p><strong>Background SOURCE:</strong></p><div data-embedjson="{&quot;body&quot;:&quot;VATICAN CITY: Seven years after his surprise resignation, Benedict XVI - weakened by age but still intellectually spry - appears unable to remain ...&quot;,&quot;photoUrl&quot;:&quot;https:\/\/cna-sg-res.cloudinary.com\/image\/upload\/q_auto,f_auto\/image\/12422548\/16x9\/991\/557\/2f9bc8d91349815a37aefef38b687005\/Gu\/as-emeritus-pope-benedict-xvi-continued-in-his-retirement-to-write-on-the-great-themes-of-the-church-friction-has-arisen-creating-the-appearance-of-two-popes-at-odds-1581407102893-2.jpg&quot;,&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https:\/\/www.channelnewsasia.com\/news\/world\/seven-years-after-stepping-down-benedict-fuels-2-popes-headache-12422550&quot;,&quot;embedType&quot;:&quot;link&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;Seven years after stepping down, Benedict fuels '2 popes' headache&quot;}">
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        https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/seven-years-after-stepping-down-benedict-fuels-2-popes-headache-12422550
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    <item>
        <title>Is Anyone Safe in the Roman Catholic Church? A New Low!</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/614/is-anyone-safe-in-the-roman-catholic-church-a-new-low</link>
        <pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2019 03:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>News &amp; Current Events</category>
        <dc:creator>C Mc</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">614@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<h1 data-id="pope-francis-confirms-priests-abuse-of-nuns-included-sexual-slavery">Pope Francis confirms priests' abuse of nuns included "sexual slavery"</h1>

<p>Nuns have suffered and are still suffering sexual abuse at the hands of Catholic priests and bishops, and even being held as sexual slaves, Pope Francis confirmed on Tuesday. The abuse was so severe in one case that an entire congregation of nuns was dissolved by former Pope Benedict.</p>

<p>The scope of the abuse of nuns by clergy members first came to light with the publication at the beginning of February of the monthly magazine "Women-Church World." The edition included Francis' own take on the scandal -- long known about by the Vatican but virtually never discussed -- in which he blamed the unchecked power wielded by priests and higher clergy across the Catholic Church for such crimes.</p>

<p>An Associated Press journalist who first reported on the scandal last year asked Pope Francis on his flight home from the Arabian Peninsula on Tuesday whether enough was being done by the Church hierarchy to address the problem.</p>

<p>The pontiff conceded that it was a problem and said more action was needed and insisted the will to confront the abuse was there. He stressed that the problem was not new and that the Church has been working to address it for some time.</p>

<p>"It's a path that we've been on. Pope Benedict had the courage to dissolve a female congregation which was at a certain level, because this slavery of women had entered it -- slavery, even to the point of sexual slavery -- on the part of clerics or the founder," the pope conceded.</p>

<h2 data-id="source-pope-francis-confirms-priests-abuse-of-nuns-included-sexual-slavery">Source:  Pope Francis Confirms Priests' Abuse of Nuns Included "Sexual Slavery"</h2>

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<h2 data-id="cm-s-take">CM's Take:</h2>

<p>Pope Francis confirmation of priests' abuse of nuns included "sexual slavery" are signs of the RCC truly being a cult (e.g. Jim Jones, David  Koresh [a.k.a Vernon Wayne Howell], etc.) as one user in CD made reference. I have deeply saddened anew!  This is an International Crisis that demands the immediate attention of all sober-minded people of goodwill. The RCC needs an International Special Prosecutor to unearth its sins and crimes. This is an undeclared war on women (Nuns), children (ages 8-13), Young Seminarians (preparation for Priesthood-- Seems more of conditioning), payout and cover-up, and now, sex slavery. Too many people are being raped, molested, abused, and now imprisoned. This is too much even for the hardened of criminals. Oh, God, where is justice? All in the name of God, sexual slavery going on in supposedly holy places, by "holy hands" without any real oversight, accountability, of priests, prayer, parishioners in the parishes of the Roman Catholic Church. Crime and Punishment seem to be a "hiss and a byword" in the ears some in the RCC. Whatever happened to sin and crime? Where are the Popes? The very structure of the RCC demands his oversight and knowledge of activities in the institutions under of his care.</p>

<p>These recent revelations I thought could only be found in dark movies advertised on walls of subways and the seedy section of large cities. The sad truth is the behaviors are NOT of reports from the "Dark Ages", but of today. It must be acknowledged that former Pope Benedict XVI dissolved an entire congregation of nuns abuse of their by clergy members. Some in CD took issues with me for calling the RCC  a "<strong>Holy House" -- A "Cesspool of Deviancy</strong>".  A sad confirmation of a destructive truth. Could this be one of the reasons Pope Benedict XVI resigned? This is a discussion for another thread. Unfortunately, the carnage of sexual crimes exists then and continues today through active serving, unidentified, Pedophile Priests. A day of justice will come. The wheels of justice may grind slowly but her work is effective. Remain hopeful.</p>

<p>Many of the few in CD have displayed a deafening silence on the sexual crimes of the RCC due to affiliation and/or outright display of being complicit. This most recent revelation clearly indicates that the RCC is like the US Government Reports. Whatever they admitted too, the real situation is far worse than what is or acknowledged. If I am allowed to quote myself I would like to end this post by reasserting that <strong>the RCC needs to be shut down until there are thorough investigations, the removal, and jailing of Predator Priests, Bishops, and Cardinals</strong>. This institution is a hotbed of sexual crimes, deviance, and coverups. Why does America put up with this? Families are not safe, in any of the RCC Institutions, until the murdering of families (on the installment plan) is brought to a halt and the criminal within are removed. This is no time to be ashamed of exposure, cover-up, putting one's head in the sand, or attacking the messenger. All these things help the church cover its crimes and sins. <strong>To do so, would provide another day, another child, another Nun, another seminarian rape used and abused in the presence of Holy Texts, robes, confessionals, alcoholic wines, water, the proclamation of absolution, etc.</strong>, allowing the RCC another opportunity to commit their nasty deeds. God, help the victims! CM</p>

<h2 data-id="what-can-be-done-to-hasten-justice-healing-and-deliverance-of-those-who-are-still-imprisoned-physical-mentally-and-spiritually-by-rcc-cm">What can be done to hasten justice, healing, and deliverance of those who are still imprisoned physical, mentally and spiritually by RCC? CM</h2>
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        <title>Pope Complicit To RCC Sex Crimes? -- A must read</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/548/pope-complicit-to-rcc-sex-crimes-a-must-read</link>
        <pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2018 08:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Pop Culture</category>
        <dc:creator>C Mc</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">548@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<h1 data-id="the-pope-owns-this">The Pope Owns This</h1>

<p>This is no time to be dismissive. This is a time to work together for reform and a new springtime of faith in the Church and in the world.</p>

<p>Msgr. Charles Pope<br />
Pope Francis meets with cardinals during the weekly general audience on Nov. 14, 2018, at St. Peter's square in the Vatican. <br />
The annual Fall Meeting of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB), which took place in Baltimore earlier this week, was a disappointment on many levels. Yet there were also moments of light and strength coming from a good number of bishops. They spoke with clarity, acknowledging the seriousness of the crisis both in terms of the need to bring some semblance of justice to the victims and of the faltering credibility of the Church. Some even made the forbidden connection of the crisis to active homosexuals in the priesthood. Still others lamented the collective silence on sexual morality, wondering how many bishops and clergy do not believe what the Church teaches. (The interventions of these courageous bishops were reported in detail in the National Catholic Register here and here.)</p>

<p>Lamentably, the vote to encourage <strong>the Holy See to release all documents related to former Cardinal McCarrick’s alleged misconduct did not pass</strong>. The debate seemed to center on canonical issues and even wordsmithing. Nonetheless, the fact that more than 80 bishops were willing to issue even a mild-mannered insistence to Rome shows that many are finding a voice that is willing to confront when and where necessary.</p>

<p><strong>The greatest disappointment was Pope Francis’ decision to suppress any vote or action on the abuse scandals by the U.S. bishops</strong>. Some bishops remarked that this decision indicates that Rome is serious about reform—a gratuitous claim. To many if not most of the faithful from whom I regularly hear, this seems yet another <strong>sad example of intransigence from Rome and the Pope. There is an almost complete tone-deafness in Rome; there seems to be bewilderment as to why these American “conservatives” are so worked up</strong>. Even worse, it appears that there is intentional resistance, obfuscation, and outright refusal to grant the legitimate requests of God’s faithful for a full and prompt investigation. These requests by the faithful are intended to ensure that tolerance of sin, violations of chastity, and clerical malfeasance will end. ## Victims deserve a prompt and thorough investigation and the faithful are right to insist that their clergy live up to the vows they take and observe the Sixth Commandment.</p>

<p>To most Catholics, the Pope’s actions and seeming resistance place the ownership of the scandal squarely in his court; he has increasingly become the face of the scandal. This is due to the credible accusations that he knew of former Cardinal McCarrick’s predatory behavior but even more so to the fact that he has steadfastly refused even to respond to the charges. He could deny them, but he does not. Even if he were to say, “I made a serious error in judgment and I ask the mercy and forgiveness of God’s people,” many people would do so, even if with sadness. Instead, the Pope has declared that he will “not say one word on this.” Even worse, he subsequently referred to those who have asked for answers and investigations as “a pack of wild dogs,” “scandal-mongers,” and “those in league with the Great Accuser.” This is no way to treat God’s faithful; it makes him seem more of a besieged and angry potentate than a shepherd who “has the smell of the sheep.” There is a lot of talk about mercy and accompaniment, but the Pope’s actions, including the recent suppression of the USCCB’s planned vote and actions on the sexual abuse crisis, demonstrate that such terms will be very selectively applied.</p>

<p>Indeed, the response of the Pope to the situation in the U.S. seems eerily familiar to his treatment of the people of Chile: Pope Francis deeply offended abuse survivors by defending Chilean Bishop Juan Barros from what he called the “calumny” and “gossip” of victims of clerical sexual abuse, stubbornly backing his appointment as bishop despite widespread advice to remove it. He even called the Chileans who protested Barros’ appointment “dumb.” So detrimental was this stubbornness, dismissiveness,and unkindness to basic credibility that even some of Pope Francis’ closest associates, including Cardinal Seán O’Malley of Boston, distanced themselves from him. Only when his hand was forced by strong protests and by actions of the Chilean government did Pope Francis alter his stance and finally remove Barros, later issuing an apology.</p>

<p>Americans, both clergy and lay, may well have to learn that it could take strong protest to move this pope to reconsider his seemingly dismissive stance regarding our concerns. While there were some early promises of an investigation and a canonical trial of Archbishop McCarrick, nothing seems to have materialized, and the Pope’s suppression of the planned votes and actions of the USCCB seems to indicate that it he does not consider it a high priority.</p>

<p>It also does not help that many of Pope Francis’ closest advisors are themselves caught up in this worldwide scandal and have at best exhibited poor judgment. For example, Cardinal Óscar Rodríguez Maradiaga (from Honduras) is seen as highly connected to homosexual and financial improprieties there; more than forty seminarians in his diocese published a letter asking him to root out the homosexual network in his seminary. Cardinal Rodríguez is Pope Francis’ chief advisor, the head of his “Council of Nine,” which works closely with him in bringing about reform in Rome.</p>

<p>Yet another associate of Francis’ in the “Council of Nine,” Chilean Cardinal Francisco Javier Errázuriz Ossa, has stepped down to face legal charges of covering up for abusive priests.</p>

<p>My point here is not to recount every detail but rather to point out that Pope Francis, who was himself tasked by the last conclave with rooting out abuse and corruption, has tended to surround himself with men who are at the very heart of the scandals rocking the Church throughout the world. His credibility as a reformer who will root out scandal and insist upon accountability is nearly nonexistent; the scandal in the United States has landed firmly on his desk as a result of his own behavior. He has said to American Catholics and to our bishops, in effect, “Let me and the Holy See handle this.”</p>

<p>I am not confident that we will see anything close to a full inquiry or a clear adjudication of this matter in Rome. Too many there are implicated and compromised to be able to carry out a clear and forceful investigation. The testimonies of Archbishop Viganò have substantially withstood scrutiny: <strong>former Cardinal McCarrick’s misdeeds were known and ignored despite previous sanctions</strong>. However, there just seems to be little importance attached to any of this in Rome.</p>

<p>I cannot say strongly enough how uncomfortable it makes me to be detailing all this. Every faithful Catholic—and certainly every priest—has an instinct to support the Pope and our bishops, but this worldwide scandal has forced many of us to speak out. Just like the people of Chile, we are going to have to speak even more forcefully and persistently, focusing much of our attention now on Rome and the Pope. It will feel awkward, and we must be careful in what we say and how we say it, in what we insist upon and how we go about it.</p>

<p>I pray that the bishops who spoke out so courageously at the USCCB meeting will continue to do so and will also direct clear and forceful appeals to Rome and to the Holy Father. **Demands for a full and credible investigation and a canonical trial of former Cardinal McCarrick are not out of place or unreasonable. Bishops are not acolytes of the Pope and their dioceses are not mere franchises of the Diocese of Rome. I pray that they will raise their rightful voices as shepherds seeking to protect their flock. **May they have the courage to insist, not just request, actions that they deem necessary for the protection of God’s faithful and for a restoration of credibility. Restoration will take time, but God’s faithful deserve to see their bishops fighting for them and will respond well when they do. My intent here is not to bait the bishops; each must prudently consider how best to respond to this crisis. It is clear, however, that they are going to have to show a strong resolve to move Roman officials and the Pope toward the kind of actions the faithful deserve.</p>

<p>As for God’s faithful, pray for your bishop. If he has spoken well and strongly, encourage and support him. If he has been silent, challenge him with love. Find your own voice, too. It may feel awkward to speak forcefully and with concern toward the Holy Father, but it seems that this will be necessary. By his own actions, he has become the face of this crisis, indicating that he wants to be the one to handle it. Our focus, prayers, and insistence must now be directed toward him. Practically speaking, I would advise you to write to the Papal Nuncio in Washington D.C., Archbishop Christophe Pierre. Keep your letter brief, but be clear in stating your concerns and in insisting on the actions that the Holy See must take to begin restoring credibility; ask the good archbishop to forward your concerns to the Holy Father.</p>

<p>Finally, <strong>there are some in Rome and even among our own bishops and priests in the U.S. who still see this crisis as a mere tempest in a teapot, largely stirred up by “right-wing” bloggers and Catholics who simply “don’t like” Pope Francis</strong>. I know of no one from any sector of the Church who is not heartbroken about this, while also angry and insistent upon reform. <strong>This is not a storm created in the “blogosphere.” Every day I am approached by parishioners and contacted by people from all over</strong>: young adults in our Bible study and pre-Cana programs, older Catholics in our Sodality and Knights of Columbus, catechists, staff members, long-time Catholics, recent converts, attendees at Sunday Mass, daily communicants, and those frequenting Eucharistic Adoration. They are all concerned; they are on the receiving end of questions themselves from family and friends: “What’s wrong with your Church?” They are dismayed; they are deeply concerned for the Church they still love. These are the people still in our pews, who did not leave during the cultural downslide and have supported the Church through thick and thin. These are the people who look to us. No clergyman should demonize them; they have been too good to us for us to write them off as some fringe element. <strong>They are good Catholics and are looking to us for clear teaching, for some return of the love and loyalty they have shown us through the most difficult decades of the cultural and sexual revolutions</strong>. They have been exceedingly patient with us. This is no time to be dismissive; this is a time to listen and work together with God’s good people for reform and a new springtime of faith in the Church and in the world. Somebody say, “Amen!”</p>

<h2 data-id="this-seems-to-be-one-step-forward-and-three-steps-back-the-sex-crimes-in-the-rcc-is-deeper-than-first-believed-children-families-and-communities-are-in-more-danger-than-i-am-able-to-say-at-this-time-where-are-justice-and-the-law-cm">This seems to be one step forward and three steps back.  The Sex Crimes in the RCC is deeper than first believed. Children, families, and communities are in more danger than I am able to say at this time. Where are justice and the law? CM</h2>
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    <item>
        <title>More Church Sex Crimes:  Where and When will it Stop?</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/438/more-church-sex-crimes-where-and-when-will-it-stop</link>
        <pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2018 07:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>News &amp; Current Events</category>
        <dc:creator>C Mc</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">438@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<h1 data-id="sex-crimes-of-priests-molesting-and-raping-boys-anu-s-leaders-of-lacerated-catholic-church-meet-pope-to-discuss-sex-abuse-crisis">Sex-crimes of Priests molesting and raping boys anU.S. Leaders Of 'Lacerated' Catholic Church Meet Pope To Discuss Sex Abuse Crisis</h1>

<p>Amy Held September 13, 20182:52 PM ET</p>

<p>Archbishop Jose Gomez (left) and Cardinal Daniel DiNardo arrive at the Perugino Gate to meet with Pope Francis at the Vatican on Thursday to discuss the sex abuse crisis within the church.</p>

<p>Gregorio Borgia/AP<br />
As Pope Francis sat down at the Vatican Thursday with a delegation of U.S. bishops and cardinals to discuss how to gain ground in the sexual abuse crisis engulfing the Catholic Church, fresh scandals emerged on both sides of the Atlantic.</p>

<h2 data-id="in-germany-a-first-of-its-kind-study-leaked-to-german-news-outlets-found-that-over-the-past-seven-decades-at-least-3-677-children-have-been-sexually-abused-by-clergy-members-there">In Germany, a first-of-its kind study leaked to German news outlets found that over the past seven decades, at least 3,677 children have been sexually abused by clergy members there.</h2>

<h2 data-id="researchers-who-spent-four-years-studying-records-and-conducting-new-interviews-found-that-1-670-priests-and-other-religious-leaders-were-suspected-of-engaging-in-abuse-4-4-percent-of-the-total-number-of-clergy-in-the-country">Researchers who spent four years studying records and conducting new interviews found that 1,670 priests and other religious leaders were suspected of engaging in abuse — 4.4 percent of the total number of clergy in the country.</h2>

<h2 data-id="n-a"> </h2>

<h2 data-id="and-yet-researchers-repeatedly-emphasized-throughout-the-350-page-report-that-the-actual-numbers-are-likely-significantly-higher-german-newspaper-die-zeit-reports">And yet researchers repeatedly emphasized throughout the 350-page report that the actual numbers are likely "significantly higher," German newspaper Die Zeit reports.</h2>

<p>Some two dozen dioceses participated in the study, commissioned by the Catholic Church bishops' conference in Germany.</p>

<h2 data-id="but-critics-say-because-the-church-is-both-subject-and-sponsor-of-the-report-the-findings-are-inherently-flawed">But critics say because the church is both subject and sponsor of the report, the findings are inherently flawed.</h2>

<h2 data-id="n-a-1"> </h2>

<h2 data-id="the-report-does-not-give-the-full-picture-and-is-not-fully-independent-german-criminologist-christian-pfeiffer-told-the-new-york-times">"The report does not give the full picture, and is not fully independent," German criminologist Christian Pfeiffer told The New York Times.</h2>

<p>Pfeiffer told the Times that researchers from three universities were unable to look directly at church files, instead relying on church workers to fill out questionnaires. And the report says that in several instances, church files documenting abuse have been altered or destroyed.</p>

<p>The official findings are not set for release until Sept. 25.</p>

<p>Last month, an explosive grand jury report covering a similar time period in Pennsylvania revealed that 300 "predator priests" had abused more than 1,000 victims with the help of a systematic cover-up by church leaders.</p>

<p>But the grand jury added a caveat: "We believe that the real number ... is in the thousands."</p>

<p>Seeking a way forward, American bishops and cardinals laid the crisis bare before the pope at the Vatican on Thursday.</p>

<p>"We shared with Pope Francis our situation in the United States — how the Body of Christ is lacerated by the evil of sexual abuse," the head of the delegation, Cardinal Daniel DiNardo of Galveston-Houston, said in a statement.</p>

<p>DiNardo, who had requested the meeting in response to the sexual abuse scandal around Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, said it "was a lengthy, fruitful, and good exchange" and that the pope "listened very deeply from the heart."</p>

<p>While DiNardo offered no specifics about how they plan to address the abuse, he said they prayed with the pope "for God's mercy and strength as we work to heal the wounds. We look forward to actively continuing our discernment together identifying the most effective next steps."...</p>

<p>But a man testifying four years ago in the Philadelphia trial of Monsignor William Lynn, the first senior U.S. Catholic Church official convicted of concealing sex abuse, accused Bransfield of misconduct.</p>

<p>The man said that another priest had raped him in Bransfield's home. He also testified that his abuser told him Bransfield was sexually abusing one or more boys.</p>

<p>Bransfield issued a statement at the time denying the allegations. And a West Virginia diocese issued a statement in his defense, saying Bransfield's alleged victim denied the abuse, the Associated Press reports.</p>

<p>************************            *************************************                     ***************************<br /><strong>This Church sex-crime thing is getting out of hand. It's too much for the Roman Catholic Church to handle on its own. The Church is becoming a real sexual crime enterprise, better yet, Empire. The laws of every country around the world must unite to stop the soiling of our children and the destruction of families. This wholesale Holy Sin, hush money and violating the most vulnerable of society have to be addressed Now! This thing is beyond the Pope. They are raping the German Children like in America. This filthiness must cease, everywhere! I call on the Pope to declare a state of Emergency and shut the RCC down until every molesting Pedophile Priests are arrested and jailed. He must do it in the name of humanity. No one in their right mind, can or should continue to support the church's business as usual. The skies are crying by this evil that's tolerated by the RCC</strong>.</p>

<h2 data-id="lord-listen-to-your-children-praying-drive-out-the-molesters-as-you-did-the-money-changers-from-the-temple-amen">Lord, listen to your children praying". Drive out the molesters as you did the money changers from the temple. Amen!</h2>
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        <title>Pope Francis On Clergy Sex Abuse: 'We Showed No Care For The Little Ones'</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/418/pope-francis-on-clergy-sex-abuse-we-showed-no-care-for-the-little-ones</link>
        <pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>News &amp; Current Events</category>
        <dc:creator>C Mc</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">418@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>For those in CD thought I was being extreme about this matter, please read for yourself. In his own words:</p>

<h1 data-id="pope-francis-on-clergy-sex-abuse-we-showed-no-care-for-the-little-ones">Pope Francis On Clergy Sex Abuse: 'We Showed No Care For The Little Ones'</h1>

<p>-- August 20, 20188:41 AM ET</p>

<p><img src="https://www.christiandiscourse.net/uploads/editor/c0/1kr1a2mm1kzj.jpg" alt="" title="" /><br />
Pope Francis addresses the International Pilgrimage of the Ministrants last month in St. Peter's Square in the Vatican.<br />
Andreas Solaro -- Editor's Note: This story contains graphic descriptions that some readers may find disturbing.</p>

<p>Nearly a week after a Pennsylvania grand jury released its roughly 900-page report on sexual abuse by clergy, the leader of the Roman Catholic Church has penned a letter condemning the alleged misconduct and pledging repentance.</p>

<p>"The heart-wrenching pain of these victims, which cries out to heaven, was long ignored, kept quiet or silenced. But their outcry was more powerful than all the measures meant to silence it, or sought even to resolve it by decisions that increased its gravity by falling into complicity," Pope Francis wrote in the letter Monday, which is addressed to "the People of God." "The Lord heard that cry and once again showed us on which side he stands."</p>

<p>The "atrocities" Francis refers to were laid out in harrowing detail by the grand jury report, which used the church's own records to conclude that more than 1,000 credible victims had been abused by some 300 "predator priests" across eight decades in Pennsylvania. What's more, the report explained how the church apparatus enabled and covered up the abuse, often responding to complaints with cursory investigations and leniency toward the alleged abusers.</p>

<p>"Most of the victims were boys; but there were girls too. Some were teens; many were prepubescent. Some were manipulated with alcohol or pornography. Some were made to masturbate their assailants or were groped by them. Some were raped orally, some vaginally, some anally," the report asserted in no uncertain terms.</p>

<p>"But," it added, "all of them were brushed aside, in every part of the state, by church leaders who preferred to protect the abusers and their institution above all."</p>

<p>Report Reveals Widespread Sexual Abuse By Over 300 Priests In Pennsylvania<br />
NATIONAL<br />
Report Reveals Widespread Sexual Abuse By Over 300 Priests In Pennsylvania<br />
A Pennsylvania Priest Responds To Sex Abuse Report<br />
RELIGION<br />
A Pennsylvania Priest Responds To Sex Abuse Report<br />
Former Catholic Priest Says Pennsylvania Bishop Ignored His Reports Of Abuse<br />
HERE &amp; NOW COMPASS<br />
Former Catholic Priest Says Pennsylvania Bishop Ignored His Reports Of Abuse<br />
Until the church ceases to protect — and even in some cases promote — accused priests, "we think it is too early to close the book on the Catholic Church sex scandal," the report's authors concluded.</p>

<p>Francis' personal response initially was silence, instead allowing a Vatican spokesperson to offer the church's public response in the days that followed. And it was a particularly blunt one, noting that church officials feel "shame and sorrow" over the "criminal and morally reprehensible" abuses it revealed.</p>

<p>The spokesperson, Greg Burke, noted that the grand jury had found "almost no cases after 2002," when the Boston Globe's Spotlight investigations team famously uncovered a widespread cover-up of sexual abuse allegations. But "the Church must learn hard lessons from its past," Burke added in his statement Thursday, "and there should be accountability for both abusers and those who permitted abuse to occur."</p>

<p>In his letter Monday, Francis spoke in similarly stark terms.</p>

<p>"With shame and repentance, we acknowledge as an ecclesial community that we were not where we should have been, that we did not act in a timely manner, realizing the magnitude and the gravity of the damage done to so many lives," the pope wrote. "We showed no care for the little ones; we abandoned them."</p>

<p>The Catholic church has felt the lingering repercussions of its decades of alleged wrongdoing in court and in its wallet lately. As NPR's Tom Gjelten points out, dioceses and religious order in the U.S. have had to pay more than $3 billion in lawsuit settlements with abuse victims since the allegations came to light.</p>

<p>The Clergy Abuse Crisis Has Cost The Catholic Church $3 Billion<br />
RELIGION<br />
The Clergy Abuse Crisis Has Cost The Catholic Church $3 Billion<br />
And though Francis did not detail concrete steps for how he expects the church to change its conduct going forward, he echoed Burke's statement that such change is needed.</p>

<p>"While it is important and necessary on every journey of conversion to acknowledge the truth of what has happened, in itself this is not enough. Today we are challenged as the People of God to take on the pain of our brothers and sisters wounded in their flesh and in their spirit," the pope said.</p>

<p>"If, in the past, the response was one of omission, today we want solidarity, in the deepest and most challenging sense, to become our way of forging present and future history."</p>

<p>*******************     ***************                *************       ***************<br />
Anything I have said about the sexual abuse by clergy of the Roman Catholic Church was meek and mild compared to the Pennsylvania grand jury's roughly 900-page report.  The Sexual abuse by clergy and the leaders of the Roman Catholic Church is beyond bad, shameful, and sickening. The Half, Haven't BEEN TOLD!  The deeds by priests would make you cry, angry and pity the many victims and families. It makes you ask, where were God? Why did He allow so much, too go on for so long, and too so many people?</p>

<p>The report of actual deeds of priests to women, boys, and girls will make any TV or movie shame. This report alone can be a Tv or movie series. The report can be an x-rated movie script. As bad as it is, there are redactions. To add insult to injury, some victims will NOT get justice (stature of limitation). Mr. Cosby and the Catholic church in the state of Pennsylvania are blithe to the state. How can the state convict Mr. Cosby and the RCC goes free? What do you think?  Should the RCC shut down operations, immediately, in that state and around the USA until crime-committing priests are identified and prosecuted, to the full extent of the law? What about the many lives that have been destroyed?  No more time. Protecting the children and families should be foremost than trying to save the institution (RCC). Until sexual deviants are identified a big warning sign should be placed on all of its buildings:  Enter at your own risk, sexual predators presence. What do you think?</p>

<p>This whole situation is lower than a snake's belly and more is yet to be told. How could a society allow a people and an institution of trust to get away this another day? This crime is too deep and wide for the church to handle it any longer.</p>

<h2 data-id="a-special-prosecutor-needs-to-be-assigned-lives-remain-in-danger-as-we-read-god-help-the-many-victims-and-lord-prepare-a-place-and-perpetrators-to-endure-the-consequences-of-their-crimes-and-sins-amen-cm">A special prosecutor needs to be assigned. Lives remain in danger as we read. God, Help the many victims! And, Lord, prepare a place and perpetrators to endure the consequences of their crimes and sins. Amen!  CM</h2>

<p>PS. Your thoughts...</p>
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        <title>Roman Catholic Church: Sex Crimes, Sins and Cover-ups -- In their own words</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/404/roman-catholic-church-sex-crimes-sins-and-cover-ups-in-their-own-words</link>
        <pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2018 06:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>News &amp; Current Events</category>
        <dc:creator>C Mc</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">404@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>Read Pope Francis' letter on abuse<br />
Updated 6:52 AM ET, Mon August 20, 2018</p>

<p>Check out this story on CNN: <a href="https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/20/europe/pope-francis-abuse-full-letter/index.html" rel="nofollow">https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/20/europe/pope-francis-abuse-full-letter/index.html</a></p>

<p>"If one member suffers, all suffer together with it" (1 Cor 12:26). These words of Saint Paul forcefully echo in my heart as I acknowledge once more the suffering endured by many minors due to sexual abuse, the abuse of power and the abuse of conscience perpetrated by a significant number of clerics and consecrated persons. Crimes that inflict deep wounds of pain and powerlessness, primarily among the victims, but also in their family members and in the larger community of believers and nonbelievers alike. Looking back to the past, no effort to beg pardon and to seek to repair the harm done will ever be sufficient. Looking ahead to the future, no effort must be spared to create a culture able to prevent such situations from happening, but also to prevent the possibility of their being covered up and perpetuated. The pain of the victims and their families is also our pain, and so it is urgent that we once more reaffirm our commitment to ensure the protection of minors and of vulnerable adults.</p>

<ol><li>If one member suffers...<br />
In recent days, a report was made public which detailed the experiences of at least a thousand survivors, victims of sexual abuse, the abuse of power and of conscience at the hands of priests over a period of approximately seventy years. Even though it can be said that most of these cases belong to the past, nonetheless as time goes on we have come to know the pain of many of the victims. We have realized that these wounds never disappear and that they require us forcefully to condemn these atrocities and join forces in uprooting this culture of death; these wounds never go away. The heart-wrenching pain of these victims, which cries out to heaven, was long ignored, kept quiet or silenced. But their outcry was more powerful than all the measures meant to silence it, or sought even to resolve it by decisions that increased its gravity by falling into complicity. The Lord heard that cry and once again showed us on which side he stands. Mary's song is not mistaken and continues quietly to echo throughout history. For the Lord remembers the promise he made to our fathers: "he has scattered the proud in their conceit; he has cast down the mighty from their thrones and lifted up the lowly; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty" (Lk 1:51-53). We feel shame when we realize that our style of life has denied, and continues to deny, the words we recite.</li>
</ol><p>With shame and repentance, we acknowledge as an ecclesial community that we were not where we should have been, that we did not act in a timely manner, realizing the magnitude and the gravity of the damage done to so many lives. We showed no care for the little ones; we abandoned them. I make my own the words of the then Cardinal Ratzinger when, during the Way of the Cross composed for Good Friday 2005, he identified with the cry of pain of so many victims and exclaimed: "How much filth there is in the Church, and even among those who, in the priesthood, ought to belong entirely to [Christ]! How much pride, how much self-complacency! Christ's betrayal by his disciples, their unworthy reception of his body and blood, is certainly the greatest suffering endured by the Redeemer; it pierces his heart. We can only call to him from the depths of our hearts: Kyrie eleison -- Lord, save us! (cf. Mt 8:25)" (Ninth Station).</p>

<ol start="2"><li>... all suffer together with it<br />
The extent and the gravity of all that has happened requires coming to grips with this reality in a comprehensive and communal way. While it is important and necessary on every journey of conversion to acknowledge the truth of what has happened, in itself this is not enough. Today we are challenged as the People of God to take on the pain of our brothers and sisters wounded in their flesh and in their spirit. If, in the past, the response was one of omission, today we want solidarity, in the deepest and most challenging sense, to become our way of forging present and future history. And this in an environment where conflicts, tensions and above all the victims of every type of abuse can encounter an outstretched hand to protect them and rescue them from their pain (cf. Evangelii Gaudium, 228). Such solidarity demands that we in turn condemn whatever endangers the integrity of any person. A solidarity that summons us to fight all forms of corruption, especially spiritual corruption. The latter is "a comfortable and self-satisfied form of blindness. Everything then appears acceptable: deception, slander, egotism and other subtle forms of self-centeredness, for 'even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light' (2 Cor 11:14)" (Gaudete et Exsultate, 165). Saint Paul's exhortation to suffer with those who suffer is the best antidote against all our attempts to repeat the words of Cain: "Am I my brother's keeper?" (Gen 4:9).<br />
I am conscious of the effort and work being carried out in various parts of the world to come up with the necessary means to ensure the safety and protection of the integrity of children and of vulnerable adults, as well as implementing zero tolerance and ways of making all those who perpetrate or cover up these crimes accountable. We have delayed in applying these actions and sanctions that are so necessary, yet I am confident that they will help to guarantee a greater culture of care in the present and future.</li>
</ol><p>Together with those efforts, every one of the baptized should feel involved in the ecclesial and social change that we so greatly need. This change calls for a personal and communal conversion that makes us see things as the Lord does. For as Saint John Paul II liked to say: "If we have truly started out anew from the contemplation of Christ, we must learn to see him especially in the faces of those with whom he wished to be identified" (Novo Millennio Ineunte, 49). To see things as the Lord does, to be where the Lord wants us to be, to experience a conversion of heart in his presence. To do so, prayer and penance will help. I invite the entire holy faithful People of God to a penitential exercise of prayer and fasting, following the Lord's command.1 This can awaken our conscience and arouse our solidarity and commitment to a culture of care that says "never again" to every form of abuse.</p>

<p>It is impossible to think of a conversion of our activity as a Church that does not include the active participation of all the members of God's People. Indeed, whenever we have tried to replace, or silence, or ignore, or reduce the People of God to small elites, we end up creating communities, projects, theological approaches, spiritualities and structures without roots, without memory, without faces, without bodies and ultimately, without lives. 2 This is clearly seen in a peculiar way of understanding the Church's authority, one common in many communities where sexual abuse and the abuse of power and conscience have occurred. Such is the case with clericalism, an approach that "not only nullifies the character of Christians, but also tends to diminish and undervalue the baptismal grace that the Holy Spirit has placed in the heart of our people".3<br />
Clericalism, whether fostered by priests themselves or by lay persons, leads to an excision in the ecclesial body that supports and helps to perpetuate many of the evils that we are condemning today. To say "no" to abuse is to say an emphatic "no" to all forms of clericalism.</p>

<p>It is always helpful to remember that "in salvation history, the Lord saved one people. We are never completely ourselves unless we belong to a people. That is why no one is saved alone, as an isolated individual. Rather, God draws us to himself, taking into account the complex fabric of interpersonal relationships present in the human community. God wanted to enter into the life and history of a people" (Gaudete et Exsultate, 6). Consequently, the only way that we have to respond to this evil that has darkened so many lives is to experience it as a task regarding all of us as the People of God. This awareness of being part of a people and a shared history will enable us to acknowledge our past sins and mistakes with a penitential openness that can allow us to be renewed from within. Without the active participation of all the Church's members, everything being done to uproot the culture of abuse in our communities will not be successful in generating the necessary dynamics for sound and realistic change. The penitential dimension of fasting and prayer will help us as God's People to come before the Lord and our wounded brothers and sisters as sinners imploring forgiveness and the grace of shame and conversion. In this way, we will come up with actions that can generate resources attuned to the Gospel. For "whenever we make the effort to return to the source and to recover the original freshness of the Gospel, new avenues arise, new paths of creativity open up, with different forms of expression, more eloquent signs and words with new meaning for today's world" (Evangelii Gaudium, 11).</p>

<p>It is essential that we, as a Church, be able to acknowledge and condemn, with sorrow and shame, the atrocities perpetrated by consecrated persons, clerics, and all those entrusted with the mission of watching over and caring for those most vulnerable. Let us beg forgiveness for our own sins and the sins of others. An awareness of sin helps us to acknowledge the errors, the crimes and the wounds caused in the past and allows us, in the present, to be more open and committed along a journey of renewed conversion.</p>

<p>Likewise, penance and prayer will help us to open our eyes and our hearts to other people's sufferings and to overcome the thirst for power and possessions that are so often the root of those evils. May fasting and prayer open our ears to the hushed pain felt by children, young people and the disabled. A fasting that can make us hunger and thirst for justice and impel us to walk in the truth, supporting all the judicial measures that may be necessary. A fasting that shakes us up and leads us to be committed in truth and charity with all men and women of good will, and with society in general, to combatting all forms of the abuse of power, sexual abuse and the abuse of conscience.<br />
In this way, we can show clearly our calling to be "a sign and instrument of communion with God and of the unity of the entire human race" (Lumen Gentium, 1).</p>

<p>"If one member suffers, all suffer together with it", said Saint Paul. By an attitude of prayer and penance, we will become attuned as individuals and as a community to this exhortation, so that we may grow in the gift of compassion, in justice, prevention and reparation. Mary chose to stand at the foot of her Son's cross. She did so unhesitatingly, standing firmly by Jesus' side. In this way, she reveals the way she lived her entire life. When we experience the desolation caused by these ecclesial wounds, we will do well, with Mary, "to insist more upon prayer", seeking to grow all the more in love and fidelity to the Church (SAINT IGNATIUS OF LOYOLA, Spiritual Exercises, 319). She, the first of the disciples, teaches all of us as disciples how we are to halt before the sufferings of the innocent, without excuses or cowardice. To look to Mary is to discover the model of a true follower of Christ.</p>

<p>May the Holy Spirit grant us the grace of conversion and the interior anointing needed to express before these crimes of abuse our compunction and our resolve courageously to combat them.<br />
FRANCIS -- Vatican City, 20 August 2018</p>

<p><strong>Watch the news clip above</strong>. Children and seminarians are in real danger until the RCC remove, jail priests, and comes clean. It's not just me, time and justice are crying out.  The danger is real! The Pope, the people, and the prosecutors must get to work. Lover of the RCC must admit they are a part of a flawed institution that's in need of an overhaul or a complete shutdown. It's a den of sexual deviancy! To add further insults, to the report, although, moving in the right direction, still, have redactions.  Will the whole truth would ever be told? For a body that listens to confessions, why wouldn't they come clean when so many are still hurting, seeking answers, healings and reassurances? CM</p>
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        <title>Heartsick Boy Asks, Pope Francis, If Atheist Dad Is In Heaven?</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/255/heartsick-boy-asks-pope-francis-if-atheist-dad-is-in-heaven</link>
        <pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2018 22:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Apologetics</category>
        <dc:creator>C Mc</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">255@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<h1 data-id="heartsick-boy-asks-if-atheist-dad-is-in-heaven-pope-francis-reveals-the-answer-with-a-hug">Heartsick Boy Asks If Atheist Dad Is In Heaven. Pope Francis Reveals The Answer With A Hug.</h1>

<p><a href="https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/how-pope-francis-comforted-a-boy-who-wondered-if-his-dad-a-non-believer-was-in-heaven_us_5ad5f549e4b016a07ea0afac" rel="nofollow">https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/how-pope-francis-comforted-a-boy-who-wondered-if-his-dad-a-non-believer-was-in-heaven_us_5ad5f549e4b016a07ea0afac</a></p>

<p>A sobbing child told the pontiff his dead father was a good man, but he wondered if a nonbeliever could be in heaven.</p>

<p>Carol Kuruvilla<br />
Pope Francis hugs a child named Emanuele at the &amp; nbsp; St. Paul of the Cross parish during a pastoral visit on April 15, 2018.<br />
A tearful little boy grappling with big existential questions after the death of his father received some touching words of consolation from Pope Francis.</p>

<p>The poignant moment between the pontiff and the child on Sunday highlighted Francis’ enduring emphasis on prioritizing mercy.</p>

<p>The child, whom Francis referred to as Emanuele, met the pope during a papal visit to the St. Paul of the Cross parish on the outskirts of Rome. During a question-and-answer session with children of the parish, Emanuele approached the microphone to ask Francis a question.</p>

<p>But the child froze before he could get his words out. He can be seen sobbing into his hands in video recordings of the encounter.</p>

<p>Francis encouraged the boy to come forward and whisper the question into his ear. The pope gave the boy a hug and the pair had a quiet chat before Emanuele returned to his seat.</p>

<p>Francis then addressed the crowd, saying that Emanuele had granted permission to share the conversation.</p>

<p>He revealed that Emanuele was crying for his father, who had recently died. The boy told the pontiff that his dad was an atheist, but a good man who had all four of his children baptized.</p>

<p>“Is Dad in heaven?’” the boy asked the pope.</p>

<p>Watch a video of the encounter in Italian below.</p>

<p>“A boy that inherited the strength of his father also had the courage to cry in front of all of us,” the pope said. “If this man was able to create children like this, it’s true that he is a good man.”</p>

<p>“That man did not have the [gift] of faith, wasn’t a believer. But he had his children baptized. He had a good heart,” Francis added.</p>

<p>How Not To Raise A Jerk</p>

<p>A guide to helping you raise the kind of person you'd like to know.</p>

<p>Emanuele cries during an encounter with Pope Francis on April 15.<br />
The pope said that God decides who goes to heaven, and that God has “the heart of a father.” He asked the young girls and boys in the audience if they thought God would abandon a father like Emanuele’s, who was a good man.</p>

<p>“No,” the children shouted back.</p>

<p>“There, Emanuele, that is the answer,” the pope said, according to a translation provided by the Catholic News Service. “God surely was proud of your father, because it is easier as a believer to baptize your children than to baptize them when you are not a believer. Surely this pleased God very much.”</p>

<p>This isn’t the first time Francis has acknowledged that atheists can work for good.</p>

<p>In a 2013 homily, the pope reiterated the Christian belief that eternal salvation is attained through Jesus Christ. But he declared that all humans are created in the image of God, and that all have a duty to do good. This principle of doing good to others is one that unites all of humanity, the pope said, including atheists.  “Just do good and we’ll find a meeting point,” the pope said in that sermon.</p>

<ol><li>How would you have answered the boy?</li>
<li>Is there a biblical answer to the boy's question?</li>
<li>Do you agree with the last paragraph above by the Pope in a 2013 homily?</li>
<li>In addition, the article states, "The pope said that God decides who goes to heaven, and that God has “the heart of a father.” Do you agree?</li>
<li>Has the traditional Catholic view of salvation changed?  Better yet, when did it changed? CM</li>
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