Churchianity teaches it to mean that "In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with Jesus, and Jesus WAS Jesus.

And we swallowed that as churchoids (people who believe Church rather than the Bible).

Lets take a MUCH closer look at John 1:1, and what Jesus' words have to say about it IN ORDER from the book of John!

• Jehoshua (je-hosh’-u-ah) = Jehovah saves. Same as Joshua = Jehovah is salvation; the LORD (is his) salvation; LORD of salvation; the LORD saves.
• Jehoshuah (je-hosh’-u-ah) = Same as Joshua = Jehovah is salvation; the LORD (is his) salvation; LORD of salvation; the LORD saves.
• Jehovah (je-ho’-vah) = He will be; i.e., the Eternal who always is; the Eternal One; (root = to be; to breathe); the I AM THAT I AM; (He) was, is, will be, the LORD God. He is, He was. (There are but two tenses in Hebrew, the past and the future, with the latter denoting what is continued even in the present.)
• Jehovah-Jireh (je-ho’-vah-ji’-reh) = The LORD will see; the LORD will provide; i.e., give a means of deliverance; (root = to see); the LORD will see and provide.
• Jehovah-M’Kaddesh = The LORD is my/our sanctification.
• Jehovah-Nissi (je-ho’-vah-nis’-si) = The LORD is my/our banner or ensign; (root = something lifted up; to be seen afar off; a banner; a signal flag; an ensign).
• Jehovah-Rohi = The LORD is my/our Shepherd.
• Jehovah-Rophi = The LORD is my/our healing.
• Jehovah-Sabaoth (je-ho’-vah-sab’-a-oth) = The LORD of warrior hosts.
• Jehovah-Shalom (je-ho’-vah-sha’-lom) = The LORD is my/our peace; the peace of the LORD.
• Jehovah-Shammah (je-ho’-vah-sham’-mah) = The LORD is there (ever present).
• Jehovah-Tsidkenu = The LORD is my/our righteousness.
•  Jehozabad (je-hoz’-a-bad) = Whom the LORD gave; Jehovah gave; Jehovah has endowed.

Part -2

• Jehoshua (je-hosh’-u-ah) = Jehovah saves. Same as Joshua = Jehovah is salvation; the LORD (is his) salvation; LORD of salvation; the LORD saves.
• Jehoshuah (je-hosh’-u-ah) = Same as Joshua = Jehovah is salvation; the LORD (is his) salvation; LORD of salvation; the LORD saves.
• Jehovah (je-ho’-vah) = He will be; i.e., the Eternal who always is; the Eternal One; (root = to be; to breathe); the I AM THAT I AM; (He) was, is, will be, the LORD God. He is, He was. (There are but two tenses in Hebrew, the past and the future, with the latter denoting what is continued even in the present.)
• Jehovah-Jireh (je-ho’-vah-ji’-reh) = The LORD will see; the LORD will provide; i.e., give a means of deliverance; (root = to see); the LORD will see and provide.
• Jehovah-M’Kaddesh = The LORD is my/our sanctification.
• Jehovah-Nissi (je-ho’-vah-nis’-si) = The LORD is my/our banner or ensign; (root = something lifted up; to be seen afar off; a banner; a signal flag; an ensign).
• Jehovah-Rohi = The LORD is my/our Shepherd.
• Jehovah-Rophi = The LORD is my/our healing.
• Jehovah-Sabaoth (je-ho’-vah-sab’-a-oth) = The LORD of warrior hosts.
• Jehovah-Shalom (je-ho’-vah-sha’-lom) = The LORD is my/our peace; the peace of the LORD.
• Jehovah-Shammah (je-ho’-vah-sham’-mah) = The LORD is there (ever present).
• Jehovah-Tsidkenu = The LORD is my/our righteousness.
•  p 127 Jehozabad (je-hoz’-a-bad) = Whom the LORD gave; Jehovah gave; Jehovah has endowed.
• Jehozadak (je-hoz’-a-dak) = The LORD has made just; Jehovah is just.
• Jehu (je-hu) = The LORD; Jehovah is He; He is. He shall be (subsist).

Read, think, and enjoy! It's a bit long for those who don't have this resource in their Logos Library. CM

SOURCE:

Smith, S., & Cornwall, J. (1998). In The exhaustive dictionary of Bible names (pp. 126–127). Bridge-Logos.

1. Its human authors are referred to as King Solomon (Prov. 1:1–9:18, 10:1–22:16, Proverbs 25–29).
2. Unidentified “wise men” from the ancient Near Eastern world (Prov. 22:17–24:22, 24:23–34).
3. The non-Israelite Agur (Prov. 30:1–33). 
4. The book even acknowledges King Hezekiah’s editorial contributions (Prov. 25:1).
5. The book of Proverbs is filled with practical and down-to-earth advice for daily living.
6. The book of Proverbs is a witness to the wisdom that had been accumulated over generations.
7. The book of Proverbs is the Word of God because it was under divine inspiration that the authors pulled their materials together.
8. In Proverbs, “wisdom” is revealed when you acknowledge the Lord “in all your ways” (Prov. 3:6, NKJV); that is, wisdom is living in faith and in obedience; it’s about what it means to be human before the God of Creation.

Chapter 8

1. Proverbs 8, is one of four creation accounts in Scripture (Genesis 1, Genesis 2, Psalm 104).
2. Proverbs 8, contains Personification: attributing human qualities to what is not human (e.g., "Lady Wisdom" and "Lady Folly" in Proverbs 8-9).
3. Proverbs 8 reveals a loving Godhead in intimate and joyous fellowship at Creation, and Christ, the Divine Wisdom, condescending to mediate (build a bridge) between the infinite Godhead and finite creatures.

For those who truly know:

1. Do the Hebrew verbs of Proverbs 8:22-25 refer to the birth of wisdom or wisdom's creation?

PS: Help me mine the text not promote your bias or point of view. CM

Do you agree with the two statements below? If so, how or give an example.

• Christology is a sacrificial offering and final salvation for believers.
• Christology is shown Jesus as both High Priest and Sacrifice for the human race.

Is Christology personal or biblical? CM

Jesus', claims to deity is when he spoke metaphorically of His person: e.g.

• "I am the bread of life" (Jn 6.35)
• "I am the gate" (Jn 10.9)
• "I am the good shepherd" (JN 10:14)

Yet he didn't say "I am God". To say so:

• In a Jewish context would have caused controversy and confusion.
• In a Pagan context, it would have caused misunderstanding.

The Christians belief that Jesus was one with God is gathering or collaboration of materials about Jesus by others:

• The uniqueness of his person.
• The authority of His teaching
• The awesomeness of His deeds.
• Above all the power of His resurrection.

These are from those who knew Him personally and the language of divinity in proclaiming devotion to Him.

Early Christians background was rooted in a strict Jewish monotheism. Jews/Christians would accept death over sacrificing to Caesar or to the pagan deities.

Please note that Christians from the very beginning addressed Jesus as Lord (1 Cor. 8:5, 6) immediately and not a long process. It was an open, natural, unforced devotion to Jesus as Lord and Messiah. This caused a rift between Christians and their Jewish parent.

The NT reserves referring to Jesus as God directly. However, there are seven specific references that refer to Jesus as God:

• JN 1:1, 18 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
  • "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. 
• JN 20:28. "Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
• Rom. 9:5 -- "whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen".
• Titus 2:13 -- "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus".
• Heb 1:8 -- But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom".
• 2 Pet 1:1 -- "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ."

"The use of theos ["God"] as a christological title shows NOT that Jesus is God-in-action or God-in-revelation but rather that he is God-by-nature:

• The deeds and words of Jesus the deeds and words of God.
• The nature of Jesus is the nature of God; what God is, Jesus is.
• By nature, as well as by action, Jesus is God."

Read and think. Many of you have made your point on the passages above, elsewhere in these forum, spare this thread the rehashing of them here. STAY turned!... CM

Trinity is a hard concept to understand. There are three persons in God. Yet, the Old Testament emphasizes:

• The exclusive unity of God (Deut 6:4; 5:7–11).
• Alludes to the plurality of God (Gen 1:2, 26; 11:7; 18:1–33; Exod 23:23).
• This plurality of God in the OT, Isa 42:1 and 48:16, comes very close to a Trinitarian formulation.

The New Testament does not have any explicit statement on the Trinity—

• 1 John 5:7, is referred to by many but it has been rejected as a medieval addition to the text.

Notwithstanding, Trinitarian evidence is overwhelming.

• Jesus is clearly described as divine in the gospel of John (John 1:1–3; 20:28).
• Jesus, himself, proclaims his own divinity (John 8:58).
• In the NT, we find references to the three persons of the Godhead:
  • All three are mentioned at the baptism of Jesus (Matt 3:16–17).
  • During the Lord’s Supper, Jesus comforts his disciples with the thought that he and the Father would send the Holy Spirit to guide them after his departure (John 14:16–17).
  • All three persons are part of the baptismal formula found in Jesus’ great commission to his disciples (Matt 28:19).
  • Paul readily refers to all three persons in many of his epistles (Rom 8:9–11; 2 Cor 13:14; 2 Tim 1:3–14; Eph 1:13–14; 3:14–19).
  • Peter acknowledges the work of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the salvation of people (1 Pet 1:2).
  • John is a witness of the Spirit’s testimony regarding Jesus, the Son of God (1 John 5:5–9).
  • The book of Revelation also presents three persons involved in the final events of this world (Rev 1:4–5; 22:16–18).

All these biblical evidence to the triune God causes concern for some people because the Holy Spirit is often referred to with metaphors of objects:

• A dove (Matt 3:16)
• The wind (John 3:8)
• Fire (Isa 6:6, 7)
• Water (John 7:37–39)
• Oil (Matt 25:1–4)

In addition, New Testament statements appear to refer to Jesus as having had a beginning when he is referred to as “begotten” (monogenes) or “firstborn of all creation” (prototokos) (John 3:16; Col 1:15).

In history, the doctrine of the Trinity in the early church struggled with the Trinity. When the early church addressed it through a series of councils confirming the eternal divinity of Jesus. With the acceptance of Jesus as Savior and Lord, the Trinity quickly found its way into the creeds of the church.

The Niceo-Constantinopolitan creed

Please Note: Later western versions of the Nicene Creed added the filioque clause:

The addition of this clause was one of the issues that led to the great schism between east and west in 1054.

The early church fathers gave us the vocabulary we use and discuss today:

• Irenaeus spoke of the “economy of salvation,” in which each member of the Godhead has a distinct yet related role.
• Tertullian argued that “substance” is what unites while “person” is what distinguishes the members of the Godhead. “The three persons of the Trinity are distinct, yet not divided, different yet not separate or independent of each other.” 
• The eastern Cappadocian fathers expanded on Tertullian’s thought and tended to emphasize the distinct individuality of the three persons while safeguarding their unity by stressing the fact that both the Son and the Spirit derived from the Father. Note: Cappadocian fathers, Orthodox theology teaches that the Son is the “only begotten” of the Father and the Holy Spirit “proceeds” from the Father. 
  • They spoke of one “substance” (ousia) in three “persons” (hypostases).” 

One needs to be aware the that vocabulary and thought used today assumed ancient Greek dualism and metaphysics, which are very distant and confusing to us now.

Augustine's theology of the Trinity was based on the concept of relationship and on the bond of love between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This doctrine continued to experienced challenges to this day.

• Arianism holds that the Son was created by nature and did not exist before the Father brought him into existence. As such the Son is subordinate to the Father’s authority (subordinationism). Arians have also consistently denied the personhood of the Holy Spirit.

The many forms of Modalism:

• Sabellianism -- teaches that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three different modes or manifestations of the same God at different times.
• Monarchianism -- is a form of modalism that denied the plurality of God. It holds that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are a succession of modes or operations; they are not separate persons.
• Socinianism had been criticizing the doctrine of the Trinity on both biblical and rational grounds.

I don't accept the traditional Platonic dualistic worldview and metaphysics that were foundational to the church fathers’ theology of the Trinity, one of these being the concept of the immortality of the soul.

Do we have common ground on the development of this doctrine thus far? In view of the texts cited above isn't it clear that Trinitarian evidence is overwhelming? CM

Does the Bible speaks of politics? If so, what are some of its earliest examples?

Was Jesus political? If so, what are some examples?

Should Christians get involved or join a political party?

Can one political stances influence one biblical views or vise versa?

Can Christian live "unstained" by politics?

What obligatory role the Christian has to get involve or to avoid politics at all cost?

These and other questions one may want to consider, to be informed, and to enlighten others. CM

1. To whom does the Bible said can forgive us our sins?
2. Can Jesus forgive sins? If so, is it Jesus alone?
3.  Has God gifted or empowered anyone else to forgive sins?
4. Is it possible for one to qualify to forgive sins?
5. Where should one go to be forgiven of sins?

The answers to these questions are important to the Christian walk, practical in giving assurances and having a peace-of-mind. How readeth thou? CM

1.    Should one include the Old Testament in any examination of parables?

2.    What are the Characteristics of Jesus’ Parables?

3.    Were Jesus’ parables original with Him? If not, from whom and what source(s)?

4.    Are the parables of Jesus multidimensional?

5.    What types of parables did Jesus employed? 

6.    What links, if any, are there between the written Word of God and the parables of Jesus? 

7.    What was Jesus’ intended purpose in using parables? 

8.    Why did Jesus choose parables as his preferred method of teaching? 

9.    What process did Jesus frequently follow as He told His parables? 

10. Why were the parables of Jesus meant to conceal as well as to reveal? 

11. In which three ways did Jesus seek to teach the people about God? 

12. Are parables being used today, if so, in what settings?

What can you contribute to answering these questions and provide additional information on the subject matter? CM

• Is Jesus Messiah-King or Messiah-Savior?
• The Messiah-King or Messiah-Savior is God?
• Is Messiah just a human and or divine figure?
• The Messiah is this common-ground between Judaism and Christianity?
• What does the Bible have to say of the "Messiah" in the OT and NT?

To start, please note, in the OT, Daniel's references to Christ match Him too closely to have been merely the product of human speculation:

• On earth -- He was one "like a son of the gods" (Dan 3:25).
• In heaven -- "one like a son of man" (Dan 7:13).
• In Daniel. 8 -- we find Him as "the Prince of princes" (Dan 8:25).
• In chap. 9 -- as "the Anointed One, the ruler" (Dan 9:25).

Jesus was the God-man, the Messiah-Prince!

In addition, Dan 11:22, at the very center of a narrative spanning all of Dan 10-12, is a reference to Christ on the cross as the "prince of the covenant"— swept away, along with an overwhelming army of others, through a process of judicial murder, on falsified charges of disloyalty to Caesar. cf-- See John 18:28-40; 19:12-16.

Peter in his preaching emphasized that Jesus, whom the Jews crucified, was the Messiah. In early Christian tradition, Dan 9:24-27 was generally held to be a Messianic prophecy. The pronoun often translated "he" in Dan 9:27. "Since the Prince of the previous passage (vs. 26) is not a Roman prince . . . the 'He' in this verse refers to the Messiah Prince, or Jesus Christ historically". The antecedent of the pronoun "he," then, according to this argument, is the "Messiah, the Prince" of vs. 25..."

Gurney said, "It is highly probable that the 'he' of verse 27 refers back to the ‘anointed one, since He is the principal character in verse 26." Oh, it's Jesus! CM

SOURCES:

• Jerome 's Commentary on Daniel. trans. Gleason L. Archer, Jr. (Grand Rapids. MI: Baker Book House, 1958). 95-110
• Otto Zockler. The Book o f the Prophet Daniel, trans. James Strong. A Commentary- on the Holy Scriptures, vol 13 (New York: Scribner. Armstrong & Co.. 1876). 205-17
• Montgomery, The Book o f Daniel. 394-401
• Robert M. Gurney, 1980). God in Control (Worthing: H. E. Walter. 1980) pg 114

Researching using Logos 8 found Good Friday in Jerusalem mentioned on a journey in 381-4 CE so Holy Week of Holy Wednesday, Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, Weekly Sabbath, Easter Sunday dates back to the 4th Century. Hence, Symbolic interpretation has been widely observed for many centuries (plus assumed to be correct by many Biblical scholars).

Holy Wednesday and Weekly Sabbath are two days of rest (silence) during passion week.

Literal fulfillment can match Passover description in Exodus where lamb is chosen on 10 Nisan (Sunday) and died on 14 Nisan (Thursday) with 15 Nisan (Friday) being a Special Sabbath for Feast of Unleavened Bread followed by Weekly Sabbath. Three days and three nights has two complete days and nights (Sabbaths) with part of a third day (body into tomb shortly before sunset) and part of third night (resurrection before sunrise). For the Passion week, Matthew 28:1, Mark16:2, Luke 24:1, and John 20:1 have first day of the week in translations (instead of after Sabbaths, the women went with spices ...) that is a puzzling translation for plural usage of σαββατον (Sabbaths).

Matthew records on the day after cruxificion of Jesus, the Jewish leaders requested Pilate to guard the tomb for three days (Friday, Saturday, Sunday). Paul had similar training as the Jewish leaders so uses three days to describe resurrection.

Keep Smiling

Is it true that Jesus is found in the Qur'ran? Where? Is it accurate? If proven, does this upgrades the status of the Qur'ran?
Is there some truth in all religious books? Whatever is found in the Qur'ran about Jesus, is it reliable? Above all, can the Qur'ran be used to lead a Muslim to Christ? CM

What can Christians do, if anything, to make Jesus more acceptable? CM

Is the "Son of Man" God, Jesus, Angels or Christians? When clearly identified does it have the meaning or reference point in the OT as it does in the NT? See Daniel 7:9-14; Dan. 8:14. What say ye? CM