Churchianity teaches it to mean that "In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with Jesus, and Jesus WAS Jesus.

And we swallowed that as churchoids (people who believe Church rather than the Bible).

Lets take a MUCH closer look at John 1:1, and what Jesus' words have to say about it IN ORDER from the book of John!

There are several threads in CD on the Holy Spirit. However, is there a consensus to its nature, intelligence, and Being? Let's settle it. Let the Bible speak its truth as God reveals and "Holy men" wrote under inspiration.

Make your case for truth and enlighten darkened minds. There is much power to be had, wisdom, knowledge, and support for all in their Christian journey.

Yes, @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus, your long quotes and resources are welcome! They add value to the conversation, even if they are not my preference. Truth must take her rightful place in all forms like a shining star in the darkened skies and as diamond sparkles in the light.

The Bible remains the standard or the primary source for any knowledge of God in dealing with issues of divinity. CM

Start your discovery with the New "Vatican Versions" of the Bible.

• What's the purpose?
• Are they to help the modern reader or control thoughts or biased interpretations?
• What justifications does the "Vatican" get for such a relentless and possible financial drive for its new Versions?
• Where and when will it stop?

Is Vatican's quest with its new versions a subtle worldwide method of brainwashing people to influence future generations?

• Is the rest of Christendom a part of this? If not, why are they so silent?

Do you see a pattern, or is it a misunderstanding? CM

"James 1:5- If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you."

As promised in another thread, I would give a closer look into a translation that one of the new posters frequently directs users of these forums. Many times, @BroRando supplied Bible texts lead one to Jehovah's Witnesses Bible entitled, "The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures." It was written and released in 1950 by members of the Society. Many in the religious and scholarly community deemed it to be a biased translation. It is believed the translators have added and altered many Bible texts to agree with the denominational teachings. Can it be verified or denied?

I stand to be corrected that in 1969, "The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures" came on the scene. It used the Greek text revised by Westcott and Hort and has the New World translation in its margin. This reveals many errors and contradictions, including words added and other mistranslations. The Greek text used is also questionable.

What's the quality of this "Bible"? Is it accurate to the Greek and Hebrew texts that other Bibles and Translations are based? What value does it bring to the religious world or the study of theology? Who were the men that compiled the NWT? Were they efficient proficient in the languages of Greek and Hebrew?

Eusebius, a follower of Origen, rejected the deity of Christ and claimed that Christ was a created being. A cursory reading of John 1:1 in the NWT appeared to have continued the "Arian heresy." Is it just the NWT that maintains the Arian heresy that says Jesus is not God and that God is a pantheistic God, a God in everything?

Can we make a sober comparison of the NWT and other translations? After doing such, would you recommend its usage for mature biblical studies? CM

PS. May I encourage all to limit your comments to the NWT Text and its development to keep us focused?

God's existence, love, ability, power, and manifestations are not limited to man's approval or comprehension. Man is the created and not the Creator. Man is lower than the angels. Let us not lose sight of our place and abilities. God can become a man, but man can NEVER become God. So, let us choose to believe The Almighty, who "is", "was" and "is to come"; and stop carrying the Devil's water of doubt and unbelief.

I invite all at CD to join me in giving "proof" (implied and explicit) from the Bible (Genesis to Revelation) that Jesus is God. What say ye? CM

1. What is Purgatory?
2. Where did it come from?
3. Who's in charge of it?
4. Where is it?
5. Does Purgatory exist today?
6. What qualifies one for purgatory?
7. How and when is one release from Purgatory?
8. Does the Bible teach it?

These and other questions can, and should, be asked of this subject. What is your understanding? CM

1. What is a translation?
2. What is a paraphrase? Are they reliable?
3. What is a Bible version?
4. What are the major English Bible Translations? What are they based upon?
5. What are the strengths and weaknesses of the major English Bible Translations?
6. What are the differences between a translation and a version?
7. What is a Bible Manuscript? How many are in existence today?
8. What is the least reliable Bible translation?

The Bible and its development, let's explore. CM

Let's look with new eyes at the Holy Spirit. Much has been said and written, yet foolishness prevails. From a biblical view, let's settle it and help me answer the questions below:

1. Is the Holy Spirit mere energy, power, or a thing?
2. Is the Holy Spirit God?
3. Is the Holy Spirit wind or an influence?
4. What is the relationship between Christ and the Holy Spirit?
5. What references are there to the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament?
6. How is the Holy Spirit addressed in the Bible?
7. What are the attributes of the Holy Spirit?
8. Is the Holy Spirit a metaphor or a Divine Being?
9. What are the actions of the Holy Spirit from Scripture?
10. Are the actions of God and of the Spirit interchangeable? If so, what are they?

These and other questions on the Holy Spirit can be asked to bring clarity to the subject matter. The average Christian wants and needs to know how the Holy Spirit dwells in me if the biblical evidence shows the Holy Spirit is an intelligent Divine Being? Mine your Bibles the answers? CM

1. What role did culture play in God giving us the Bible?
2. Does culture influence the Bible?
3. Is God above culture?
4. These and other questions arise when it comes to "soul-winning" or witness. 
5. Would you mind sharing your culturally unbiased views on this topic?
6. What Bible is the most cross-cultural in existence? 
7. What Bible is the least culturally friendly?
8. Can one indeed be culturally sensitive without diminishing any biblical teaching? CM

PS. This OP is a B. Mitchell special (living in Japan). We want to hear from you on this subject. CM

Pick one of the topics we've been discussing, as long as the topic is not biased in itself, for example:

• Who was the virgin Mary?
• Which one is the God's word: the Quran or the Bible?

So you will have to defend your claims publicly without distracting and ignoring clear questions.

Proposed debate format and rules:

Video-by-video, published publicly on Facebook. Each video shall have a maximum length of five minutes, with a total of six videos per side (one initial statement, four rebuttals, and one final statement). You may choose whether you want to start.

We shall both waive our copyrights to the videos, so that we can both post the full debate on our pages respectively without copyright claims from the other side.

I'm waiting for your reply.

(This post will be cross-posted on Facebook. I'll add a link to the Facebook post in the comments.)

Who selected the books that make up the Christian Bible or canon?

What books were rejected and why?

What is your understanding? CM

Similarities with the Creation Story and the Flood Account

(a) Moses’ Polemical Style

Since in the ANE there existed several ancient creation stories prior to the writing of Genesis 1-2, some scholars have claimed that the biblical creation account was influenced by, e.g., Babylonian mythology. Moses wrote the true creation account under divine inspiration to correct the distortions found in the mythological accounts of creation. Moses obviously avoided certain terms (bigger and lesser light instead of sun and moon) that could convey wrong conceptions (the terms for sun and moon would refer also to a god of the sun and a god of the moon). Further, in the biblical account, everything was created out of nothing rather than from defeated enemies. There is no struggle or war among the gods. The biblical creation account presents one God. It is a polemic against mythological stories and it is unique.

(b) Enuma Elish

The Enuma Elish creation account pointing out that creation out of a primordial conflict was a common motif in the ANE. Yet the Genesis creation account stands in stark contrast to it. Although such elements as the heavens, the earth, the sea/deep, and the sea “monsters” are mentioned, they do not represent fighting deities or a source of chaos.

(c) The Epic of Athrahasis

While there are some basic similarities between the biblical creation and flood account and the epic of Athrahasis, there are nevertheless many differences. Thus the biblical account does not present heaven, water, and earth as gods; humanity is not created from the blood of the rebellious leader of the junior gods. Further, the flood did not occur because the human population disturbed the rest of the deities but because of their wickedness and sinfulness. No, emphatically, Moses did not borrow ideas or concepts from this epic.

(d) The Epic of Gilgamesh

The storyline of the Gilgamesh epic and its tone is totally different from the biblical flood story. The account in Gen 6:11-13 plays with the word shachat (corrupt, destroy), explaining that the flood was God’s reaction against human society’s total corruption and violence rather than a capricious act of an angry deity. The biblical writers did not live in isolation. They knew the literature of their time and they used extra-biblical material to communicate competently. They used contemporary structures, styles, concepts, and language for the same purpose. Yet the biblical writers did not give credit to the original sources or authors because that was not customary in ancient times.

Truth found truth shared. CM

Church forced to change name to "Follow the Party, Obey the Party, and Be Grateful to the Party"

The Communist Party of China plans to rewrite the Christian Bible, functionally destroying thousands of years of Christian faith and history.

After failed attempts to force Christian churches and faithful to abide by its standards, the Chinese Communist Party leaders have determined to re-write the Bible to better reflect their own agenda.

In November, a group of 16 representatives of different religions from the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China were ordered by Wang Yang, Chairman of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, to address the teachings of the Bible and other religious texts, and rewrite the “radical portions to reflect China’s national progressive stand,” according to Xinhua News Agency.

“Mr Wang stressed that religious authorities must follow President Xi’s instructions and interpret the ideologies of different religions in accordance with ‘the core values of Socialism’ and ‘the requirements of the era’,” French newspaper Le Figaro reported.

The order to re-write the Bible to be less “radical” comes shortly after an order in late September to local officials in Ji’an, a southeastern province of Jiangxi, to demand the congregation of a Catholic church named “The True and Original Source of the Universe,” to replace a painting of the Virgin Mary with a portrait of Xi Jinping, and to paint over the sign on the front of the church and replace the Church’s original name with “Follow the Party, Obey the Party, and Be Grateful to the Party.”

According to a local reporter from bitterwinter.org, “Tang Zhe” who uses a pseudonym for security reasons, a Catholic church in “Poyang county was shut down on the grounds that any church refusing to join the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association because they consider it a “xie jiao,” or an “evil cult”.

Local priests reported to “Tang Zhe” that the move to force Catholic churches into the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association is disastrous...

*************************************************************

Wow! The Communist Party of China plans to rewrite the Christian Bible, functionally destroying thousands of years of Christian faith and history.

• Is The Communist Party of China on to something believing that the Catholic Church is a "cult" as some in these forums have purported?
• Is The Communist Party of China experiencing a religious awakening or just manipulating things for control?
• Does The Communist Party of China has it own religion or just dislike Christianity?
• Do you see what The Communist Party of China is doing -- a part of "End-time" Prophecy?

What do you make of this action overall? CM

PS. Is this just "fake news"?

SOURCE: https://nationalfile.com/china-orders-pro-communist-bible-revision-admits-bible-is-anti-communist/

In addition, are there any Bible-believing scientists who believed in the inspiration and authority of the Bible, as well as, the deity and the saving work of Jesus Christ? What says ye? CM

1. More than just any other book, even any other 'religious' book, the Bible is singularly unique.  
2. It is neither a single book, nor is it written by one person, as are most 'religious' texts.  
3. It is a collection of 66 books that were written by 40 or more different writers in three different languages, on three different continents.  
4. These books were written over a period of about 1600 years.  
5. The writers represent society at large.  
6. They were not just scholars and preachers, but they also ranged from common folk such as shepherds, doctors, government officials, fishermen, and tax collectors, to Kings.  
7. There are many styles of journalistic method involved, including history, poetry, government records, dialogue, parables, sermons, prophecy, letters and religious instruction.  
8. The Bible has been translated into over 1200 different languages or dialects.  
9. Despite this huge diversity of history, there is one central theme of the whole collection of writings -- God loves us and has a plan for our lives.

In sum, the Bible is unique in its claims:

• Unparalleled in documentation.
• Clear and unequivocal in its message from God.
• Capable of changing lives.
• Miraculously transmitted through the ages.

One can't help, but to ask the following questions:

1. How long has the Bible been under attack?
2. Who are the people or institutions that would do such?
3. What are rationales for being against such life-changing, unique book?
4. Is the Bible still under attack today?
5. Who are the Bible enemies of the past? To appreciate what we have now, we must understand the past.

To whom does the finger of history points to as enemies of the Bible? CM

1. What is it?
2. Are there different types?
3. Is it limited to the church and/or the Bible?
4. Who authorizes orthodoxy?
5. Does orthodoxy need religious body blessings?

Any thoughts? These and other questions may be asked in one's determining truth. CM

I am well aware that opinions and thoughts are "a dime a dozen", but what is a sin? How does the Bible define it in the OT (Hebrew) and NT (Greek)? Let the Source of Sources (Bible) have it say before the enthronement of conjectures, debating skills and nullification of reality. Given that all humanity, this side of the fall of Adam, has been defined as a sinner, shouldn't we know for certain, what the word means from God's perspective? What other words or variations are there of this word? How is its meaning applied today? Is sin relevant in today's society? How does one define the sin from the sinner? Let the Bible have its rightful place. Now, what says ye? CM

Sources:

• -- James D. G. Dunn, Robert W. Funk, and James A. Sanders in The Canon Debate (ed. Lee Martin Mc Donald and James A. Sanders; Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 2002)

• -- Milton Fisher, “The Canon of the New Testament,” in The Origin of the Bible (ed. Philip Wesley Comfort; Wheaton: Tyndale, 1992), 65–78

Researching using Logos 8 found Good Friday in Jerusalem mentioned on a journey in 381-4 CE so Holy Week of Holy Wednesday, Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, Weekly Sabbath, Easter Sunday dates back to the 4th Century. Hence, Symbolic interpretation has been widely observed for many centuries (plus assumed to be correct by many Biblical scholars).

Holy Wednesday and Weekly Sabbath are two days of rest (silence) during passion week.

Literal fulfillment can match Passover description in Exodus where lamb is chosen on 10 Nisan (Sunday) and died on 14 Nisan (Thursday) with 15 Nisan (Friday) being a Special Sabbath for Feast of Unleavened Bread followed by Weekly Sabbath. Three days and three nights has two complete days and nights (Sabbaths) with part of a third day (body into tomb shortly before sunset) and part of third night (resurrection before sunrise). For the Passion week, Matthew 28:1, Mark16:2, Luke 24:1, and John 20:1 have first day of the week in translations (instead of after Sabbaths, the women went with spices ...) that is a puzzling translation for plural usage of σαββατον (Sabbaths).

Matthew records on the day after cruxificion of Jesus, the Jewish leaders requested Pilate to guard the tomb for three days (Friday, Saturday, Sunday). Paul had similar training as the Jewish leaders so uses three days to describe resurrection.

Keep Smiling

Study it carefully,
Think of it prayerfully,
Deep in thy heart let its pure precepts dwell.

Slight not its history,
Ponder its mystery
None can e'er prize it too fondly or well.

Accept the glad tidings,
The warnings and chidings,
Found in this volume of heavenly lore;
With faith that's unfailing
And love all-prevailing,
Trust in its promise of life evermore.

With fervent devotion
And thankful emotion,

Hear the blest welcome, respond to its call;
Life's purest oblation,
The heart's adoration,

Give to the Saviour, who died for us all.

May this message of love
From the Tribune above,

To all nations and kindreds be given,
Till the ransomed shall raise
Joyous anthems of praise—
Hallelujah on earth and in heaven.
-- Unknown to me. CM

Worse than opioids: Alcohol deaths soar among the middle aged, women

Alcohol kills more people each year than overdoses through cancer, liver cirrhosis, pancreatitis and suicide, among other ways.

Author: Jayne O'Donnell, USA TODAY
Published: 8:34 PM EST November 17, 2018
Updated: 8:35 PM EST November 17, 2018

The last time lawyer Erika Byrd talked her way out of an alcohol rehab center, her father took her to lunch.

"Dad, I know what alcohol has done to me," she told him that day in January 2011. "I know what it has made me do to you and mom. But that wasn’t me."

By the time she died three months later, Byrd had blocked her parents' calls because they kept having her involuntarily committed. They once had a magistrate judge hold a hearing at her hospital bed. He ordered herto undergo a month of in-patient treatment.

As opioid overdoses, which kill about 72,000 people a year, grabbed America's attention, the slower moving epidemic of alcohol accelerated, especially in Southern states and the nation's capital. About 88,000 people die each year from alcohol.

Making matters worse, alcoholism is trickier to treat – and criticize – than opioid addiction.

"Culturally, we’ve made it acceptable to drink but not to go out and shoot up heroin," Miller says. "A lot of people will read this and say 'What's the problem?' "

It might be a more socially acceptable addiction, but alcoholism is at least three times costlier to treat than opioid addiction, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And it's a far more complicated midlife crisis to address.

The proven approaches – taxes on alcohol and limits on where and when alcohol is sold – are often rejected because the liquor industry has considerable clout with policymakers.

Ron Byrd says his daughter Erika was "beautiful inside and out."

To him, there's no question about what caused her death.

That's despite the fact there was no alcohol in her system when she was found dead at home. She was so sick, Byrd says, she hadn't been able to eat or drink for days.

"The death certificate never says alcoholism," he says. "It said heart arrhythmia and heart valve disease. But nobody in our family had heart problems."

Attorney Lisa Smith has been in recovery from alcohol and cocaine addiction for a decade. The New York City woman wrote the memoir "Girl Walks Out of a Bar" and co-hosts the podcast Recovery Rocks.

Smith speaks at legal conferences and law firms such as Byrd's about the hazards of lawyers' high-stress days and booze-fueled dinners with clients. But she's fighting forces far larger than her profession.

"It is poison, and we’re treating it like it's something other than that because there‘s big corporate money behind it," she says. "A lot of people are getting really rich on something that is toxic to us."

Deaths of despair

In its Pain in the Nation report this year, the Well Being Trust called losses from drugs, alcohol, and suicide "despair deaths."

We need to rethink our counsel to teens and personal consumption of alcohol. CM

Until we get there, do miracles make sense?

>

@ Wolfgang said: Why should miracles not make sense? Perhaps some miracles don't make sense when someone tries to understand them from an incorrect premise?

To the "un-regenerated" mind, miracles don’t make sense. Given this, I would like to know the following:

1. What are miracles?
2. Who can perform them? Are they only of God?
3. When are miracles done?
4. What are the miracles of the Bible?
5. What conditions are necessary for a miracle to be performed?
6. What is the first KNOWN miracle in the Bible?
7. What is the first RECORDED miracle in the Bible?
8. Are miracles happening today?

In sum, do miracles come about by request or are they just bestowed upon humanity? Please share your reasoning, texts, books, articles, or documents. CM

The Bible Generally Defines "Sin" As:

• An act, 1 John 3:4 -- “sin is the transgression of the law”.
• “Sin is lawlessness” (NASB).

In the Old Testament the most commonly used word for sin is

• Chata’ which in its most literal sense means “to miss the mark” as in Judges 20:16, “Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men left-handed; everyone could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss (chata’).”
• In matters of morals, “missing the mark” refers to the fact that God’s law is the standard of ethical behavior at which one must aim.
• Thus, when Joseph said: “how then can I do this great wickedness and sin (chata’) against God” (Gen 39:9), he was in effect saying, “how can I do this great wickedness and miss the standard of God’s law.”

Missing the mark is not merely an accidental mistake, but a voluntary and culpable wrong act. C. R. Smith says: The hundreds of examples of the word’s moral use require that the wicked man:

• “Misses the right mark because he chooses to aim at a wrong one”.
• “Misses the right path because he deliberately follows a wrong one”.
• That is, there is no question of an innocent mistake or of the merely negative idea of failure.6

There are a number of other Hebrew words which express the idea of sin as an act, e.g.,

• Shagah “to go astray” (1 Sam 26:21).
• Chet’ “error” (Isa 1:18).
• Peshac “rebellion” (1 Kgs 12:19).

And in the New Testament the most frequently used words for sin:

• Hamartano (43x)-- See also: Matt 18:15; Luke 15:18; John 5:14; Rom 2:12; 3:23; 5:12; etc.
• Hamartia (173x) -- Matt 1:21; 3:6; 9:2,5,6; Mark 1:4,5; Luke 1:77; John 1:29; etc.
• also have the underlying thought of missing a mark or aim.

However, a great number of texts in both the OT and the NT refer to sin as a state, or tendency of the heart.

• Jeremiah depicts sin as a spiritual sickness which afflicts the heart. He says that “the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked: who can know it?”(17:9).
• David in Psalm 51 expresses the thought that he was born a sinner, “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.” Not that his mother did anything wrong in connection with his conception or birth, she was an honorable woman, but he recognizes that he was born with a sinful nature. He desires to be washed and cleansed from sin (vss.2,7) and asks God to create in him a clean heart (vs.10). The same thought is expressed in Psalm 58:3, “The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.” Israel is called “a transgressor from the womb” (Isa 48:8).

And “from the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness (not a sound spot NEB) in it”, says God in Isaiah 1:6.

The Hebrew verb chashab (to think) and its derivatives appear some 180 times in the Old Testament. They are used in connection with the thoughts and purposes of God, but especially in reference to the cunning and sinful devisings of man’s heart.

• In Genesis 6:5 God looks down on the earth and sees that the wickedness of man is great, “every imagination of the thoughts (chashab) of his heart was only evil continually.” Man’s thoughts, says Isaiah, are “thoughts (chashab) of iniquity” (59:7). He, therefore, calls on the wicked to “forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts (chashab)” (55:7).
• The New Testament is even clearer and more emphatic on these matters. In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus speaks of the inward disposition as evil (Matt 5:21- 22,27-28).
  • To the Pharisees he said: “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh” (Matt 12:34).
  • Evil actions and words stem from the evil thought of the heart: “For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies” (Matt 15:19).

I hope this helps us to understand sin. CM

SOURCES:

-- Charles Ryder Smith, The Bible Doctrine of Sin and of the Ways of God with Sinners(London: Epworth, 1953), p.20.

-- R. C. Trench, Synonyms of the New Testament (Grand Rapids: W. B. Eerdmans, 1948), p.239.