California's Illegal Sanctuary Defense Ending in Disaster

@GaoLu said:
Oh, dear. Trump was right. We shouldn't have allowed all those illegals without vaccinations to enter and stay.

They are spreading a fatal Hep A epidemic.

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Immunization/Hepatitis-A-Outbreak.aspx

It's worth noting the following about the "fatal Hep A epidemic" reported in the CA Public Health document to which you link:

• 21 of 703 reported cases (3%) have resulted in death.
• The document says "Severe hepatitis A infection is rare but is more common in people with underlying liver disease, and can cause the liver to fail, which can lead to death," and "The hepatitis A strain in this outbreak is not thought to be a more virulent strain. Rather it is most likely that the affected population has more underlying conditions causing chronic liver disease, which can result in more severe disease when hepatitis A infection occurs."
• The document makes no connection between the Hep A outbreak and any group of "illegals" (or any other specific group, for that matter).

@GaoLu said:

And your point? If you don't know what those numbers and demographics mean, others do.

My point is that the CA Health Department advisory to which you linked does not say "all those illegals... are spreading a fatal Hep A epidemic." Do you have any other evidence to back up your claim?

@GaoLu said:
Are you denying the elephant in the livingroom?

I'm denying that the advisory to which you linked says "all those illegals... are spreading a fatal Hep A epidemic." It makes no such point.

There you go isolating facts from their context.

Had I known that the context of your previous post included the epidemiological experience of your "lot of friends there," I would have asked whether they knew why, if the CA hepA outbreak has its roots in "all those illegals," there aren't such outbreaks regularly, or at least frequently, reported in other states/areas of the country that have large immigrant populations? Or why, according to the several sources I consulted, experts in the field seem largely unified in their view that the root cause of this outbreak is not immigration but homelessness and health care. For example, Dr. Robert T. Schooley, an infectious disease doctor and vice chair of medicine at University of California at San Diego, attributes the outbreak's higher than normal death rate to "a lack health of insurance and basic sanitation, and higher rates of untreated chronic illnesses."

Another report cites conditions in LA's infamous "Skid Row:"

"According to the report, during daytime hours, with a street population of more than 3,600 people, Skid Row is as many as 164 toilets short of the U.N. standard. At night, the Skid Row population drops to about 1,700 people who live on the streets. The city of Los Angeles said there are only six public toilets in the downtown area that are open 24 hours a day."

A third opinion, again from a medical person (who may not have your friends' epidemiological expertise) can be found HERE.
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The report does not say the words--how would they dare? The medical community and population at large is abuzz with it. I have a lot of friends there--which is how I lerned about all this. That is my evidence to back up my claim.

One explanation for experts' not saying "the words" is that the experts don't believe "the words" apply to the California outbreak. After all, the experts ALSO aren't saying the outbreak was caused by Donald Trump, who ordered the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to infect the state because it didn't vote for him in the general election. (If I had friends out there, I bet they'd be telling me that's what happened.)

@GaoLu said:

One explanation for experts' not saying "the words" is that the experts don't believe "the words" apply to the California outbreak.

Well the people of CA seem to know so. Many of them at least. That is what I am passing on. Perhaps you are ignorant of that or know it but refuse to believe it. Perhaps the obvious facts are subject to some liberal political agenda. That is OK for you to believe that. America is more or less a free country.

What "the people of CA seem to know" can't be discerned from the sources that underwrote our respective posts, Gao Lu. What CAN be discerned from those sources, however, is 1) what your friends and my epidemiological experts each say about the cause of the HepA outbreak in California, and 2) whom each of us chooses to believe: You choose to believe your friends. I choose to believe the epidemiological experts.

As for political agenda, I don't typically associate epidemiological expertise with politics. And in the several articles I read to familiarize myself with the CA outbreak, I saw no agenda in the comments of the doctors quoted.

@GaoLu said:
Bill, there is no conflict in data between what my CA friends (which include several physicians) and what epidemiologists say. Your implication is deceptive. What epidemiologists have to say has nothing to do with the reality that the epidemic originates or is propagated by the illegral immigrant demographic.

In your original post, you alleged that "all those illegals... are spreading a fatal HepA epidemic." To that allegation, I assumed as supporting evidence, you attached a link to CA Department of Health advisory... which said nothing about the role of immigrants in the epidemic. In response, I offered links to three sources of information about the source of the epidemic... none of which said anything about the role of immigrants in the epidemic.

The only "sources" raised in our exchange that in any way support your allegation, are your nameless, faceless, quotation-less "friends," some of whom you now say are physicians.

Though in my view, it is not inconsequential that the four published sources we've cited say nothing about the role of immigrants in the epidemic, and that you have not addressed my request for an explanation from your friends as to why, if immigrants are the ones "spreading" the epidemic, we're not seeing HepA outbreaks in southern Texas or other larger immigrant population areas of the country, I do not exclude the possibility that immigrants have been affected by the epidemic. Without supporting evidence more compelling than the anecdotal surmises of your friends, however, I won't condone or contribute to the indictment-cum-demonization of the immigrant community obvious in your original post:

"Oh, dear. Trump was right. We shouldn't have allowed all those illegals without vaccinations to enter and stay."

/

What I am most curious about is your vigorous defense of an untenable position without apparent cause other than a liberal perspective of "it just can't be illegal immigrants" which everyone (I'll grant some exceptions) but you knows it is.

I hold my points of view for reasons likely similar to the reasons you hold your points of view: because I believe they're valid, reasonable, logical, fact-based, and certainly NOT "untenable without apparent cause."