What's Wrong With the NRA?
We constantly hear about the evils of the NRA from the crazy left. Can someone please spell out to me the wrongdoings of the NRA?
Comments
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For starters, I don't think Christians should align themselves with either the Left or the Right. Because we misrepresent Christ and alienate potential converts. Also Christians are to submit to the civil magistrate who bears the sword by God's appointment. Civilian groups that bear the sword, or plan to bear the sword if they think it necessary are not in alignment with God's program.
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@Dave_L said:
For starters, I don't think Christians should align themselves with either the Left or the Right. Because we misrepresent Christ and alienate potential converts. Also Christians are to submit to the civil magistrate who bears the sword by God's appointment. Civilian groups that bear the sword, or plan to bear the sword if they think it necessary are not in alignment with God's program.What does that have to do with my original post?
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
For starters, I don't think Christians should align themselves with either the Left or the Right. Because we misrepresent Christ and alienate potential converts. Also Christians are to submit to the civil magistrate who bears the sword by God's appointment. Civilian groups that bear the sword, or plan to bear the sword if they think it necessary are not in alignment with God's program.What does that have to do with my original post?
Does the NRA follow Jesus? If not, what fellowship does light have with darkness?
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
For starters, I don't think Christians should align themselves with either the Left or the Right. Because we misrepresent Christ and alienate potential converts. Also Christians are to submit to the civil magistrate who bears the sword by God's appointment. Civilian groups that bear the sword, or plan to bear the sword if they think it necessary are not in alignment with God's program.What does that have to do with my original post?
Does the NRA follow Jesus? If not, what fellowship does light have with darkness?
Dave you can't look at it that way. That makes no sense. If you look at life that way you can't eat half the food you probably eat, go to restaurants you probably go to, drive the car you probably drive, etc...
Even still.... that has NOTHING to do with this thread. I asked a specific question so if you have no intention of answering that question don't post on this thread.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
For starters, I don't think Christians should align themselves with either the Left or the Right. Because we misrepresent Christ and alienate potential converts. Also Christians are to submit to the civil magistrate who bears the sword by God's appointment. Civilian groups that bear the sword, or plan to bear the sword if they think it necessary are not in alignment with God's program.What does that have to do with my original post?
Does the NRA follow Jesus? If not, what fellowship does light have with darkness?
Dave you can't look at it that way. That makes no sense. If you look at life that way you can't eat half the food you probably eat, go to restaurants you probably go to, drive the car you probably drive, etc...
Even still.... that has NOTHING to do with this thread. I asked a specific question so if you have no intention of answering that question don't post on this thread.
How else can you look at it? We have the Civil Magistrate to protect the Constitution,not self appointed, non elected vigilante groups.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
For starters, I don't think Christians should align themselves with either the Left or the Right. Because we misrepresent Christ and alienate potential converts. Also Christians are to submit to the civil magistrate who bears the sword by God's appointment. Civilian groups that bear the sword, or plan to bear the sword if they think it necessary are not in alignment with God's program.What does that have to do with my original post?
Does the NRA follow Jesus? If not, what fellowship does light have with darkness?
Dave you can't look at it that way. That makes no sense. If you look at life that way you can't eat half the food you probably eat, go to restaurants you probably go to, drive the car you probably drive, etc...
Even still.... that has NOTHING to do with this thread. I asked a specific question so if you have no intention of answering that question don't post on this thread.
How else can you look at it? We have the Civil Magistrate to protect the Constitution,not self appointed, non elected vigilante groups.
We are talking about the NRA not a self-appointed vigilante group. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about.
Would anyone else like to ACTUALLY ANSWER the original question?
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
For starters, I don't think Christians should align themselves with either the Left or the Right. Because we misrepresent Christ and alienate potential converts. Also Christians are to submit to the civil magistrate who bears the sword by God's appointment. Civilian groups that bear the sword, or plan to bear the sword if they think it necessary are not in alignment with God's program.What does that have to do with my original post?
Does the NRA follow Jesus? If not, what fellowship does light have with darkness?
Dave you can't look at it that way. That makes no sense. If you look at life that way you can't eat half the food you probably eat, go to restaurants you probably go to, drive the car you probably drive, etc...
Even still.... that has NOTHING to do with this thread. I asked a specific question so if you have no intention of answering that question don't post on this thread.
How else can you look at it? We have the Civil Magistrate to protect the Constitution,not self appointed, non elected vigilante groups.
We are talking about the NRA not a self-appointed vigilante group. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about.
Would anyone else like to ACTUALLY ANSWER the original question?
Did the Civil Magistrate create the NRA? If not, who did?
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
For starters, I don't think Christians should align themselves with either the Left or the Right. Because we misrepresent Christ and alienate potential converts. Also Christians are to submit to the civil magistrate who bears the sword by God's appointment. Civilian groups that bear the sword, or plan to bear the sword if they think it necessary are not in alignment with God's program.What does that have to do with my original post?
Does the NRA follow Jesus? If not, what fellowship does light have with darkness?
Dave you can't look at it that way. That makes no sense. If you look at life that way you can't eat half the food you probably eat, go to restaurants you probably go to, drive the car you probably drive, etc...
Even still.... that has NOTHING to do with this thread. I asked a specific question so if you have no intention of answering that question don't post on this thread.
How else can you look at it? We have the Civil Magistrate to protect the Constitution,not self appointed, non elected vigilante groups.
We are talking about the NRA not a self-appointed vigilante group. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about.
Would anyone else like to ACTUALLY ANSWER the original question?
Did the Civil Magistrate create the NRA? If not, who did?
Irrelevant Dave. Answer the actual question of the original post or go away.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
For starters, I don't think Christians should align themselves with either the Left or the Right. Because we misrepresent Christ and alienate potential converts. Also Christians are to submit to the civil magistrate who bears the sword by God's appointment. Civilian groups that bear the sword, or plan to bear the sword if they think it necessary are not in alignment with God's program.What does that have to do with my original post?
Does the NRA follow Jesus? If not, what fellowship does light have with darkness?
Dave you can't look at it that way. That makes no sense. If you look at life that way you can't eat half the food you probably eat, go to restaurants you probably go to, drive the car you probably drive, etc...
Even still.... that has NOTHING to do with this thread. I asked a specific question so if you have no intention of answering that question don't post on this thread.
How else can you look at it? We have the Civil Magistrate to protect the Constitution,not self appointed, non elected vigilante groups.
We are talking about the NRA not a self-appointed vigilante group. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about.
Would anyone else like to ACTUALLY ANSWER the original question?
Did the Civil Magistrate create the NRA? If not, who did?
Irrelevant Dave. Answer the actual question of the original post or go away.
As Christians we are to support the Civil Magistrate, not stockpile weapons to change what we deem unconstitutional by violence.
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Guys, please let me remind you to be respectful in your discussion. @davidtaylorjr didn't want the thread to go into the current direction. Since he is the original poster, I suggest we honour his wish. @Dave_L please open your own thread if you want to continue the current discussion. If you want, I can split this thread in two, so you won't have to re-type everything.
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@Jan said:
Guys, please let me remind you to be respectful in your discussion. @davidtaylorjr didn't want the thread to go into the current direction. Since he is the original poster, I suggest we honour his wish. @Dave_L please open your own thread if you want to continue the current discussion. If you want, I can split this thread in two, so you won't have to re-type everything.I respect your thoughts, but as a "Christian" forum, why is questioning a Christian's involvement in a group that condones gun violence out of order?
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@Dave_L said:
@Jan said:
Guys, please let me remind you to be respectful in your discussion. @davidtaylorjr didn't want the thread to go into the current direction. Since he is the original poster, I suggest we honour his wish. @Dave_L please open your own thread if you want to continue the current discussion. If you want, I can split this thread in two, so you won't have to re-type everything.I respect your thoughts, but as a "Christian" forum, why is questioning a Christian's involvement in a group that condones gun violence out of order?
@Jan is the forum owner. Your comment isn't out of order for the forum, it is out of order for the thread. You always take threads off their course and confuse everyone. Stick to the topic or create a different thread for the topic you wish to discuss.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@Jan said:
Guys, please let me remind you to be respectful in your discussion. @davidtaylorjr didn't want the thread to go into the current direction. Since he is the original poster, I suggest we honour his wish. @Dave_L please open your own thread if you want to continue the current discussion. If you want, I can split this thread in two, so you won't have to re-type everything.I respect your thoughts, but as a "Christian" forum, why is questioning a Christian's involvement in a group that condones gun violence out of order?
@Jan is the forum owner. Your comment isn't out of order for the forum, it is out of order for the thread. You always take threads off their course and confuse everyone. Stick to the topic or create a different thread for the topic you wish to discuss.
What is wrong with the NRA? It is un christian.
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@Dave_L said:
I respect your thoughts, but as a "Christian" forum, why is questioning a Christian's involvement in a group that condones gun violence out of order?It's not out of order at all. Hijacking a thread is (mildly) out of order though, especially if the original poster is already upset about it.
Anyway, my offer to split the thread stands. If you want productive and fruitful discussion to happen, this is the recommended way to move forward.
I don't want to play the moderator or forum owner card to solve this disagreement. We're all grown up and mature Christians here. If I do it now, I will have to do it all the time.
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@Jan said:
@Dave_L said:
I respect your thoughts, but as a "Christian" forum, why is questioning a Christian's involvement in a group that condones gun violence out of order?It's not out of order at all. Hijacking a thread is (mildly) out of order though, especially if the original poster is already upset about it.
Anyway, my offer to split the thread stands. If you want productive and fruitful discussion to happen, this is the recommended way to move forward.
I don't want to play the moderator or forum owner card to solve this disagreement. We're all grown up and mature Christians here. If I do it now, I will have to do it all the time.
I did not take David's post off topic. He called those who oppose the NRA the "crazy Left". I responded by saying something like "Christians should not align with the Left or Right" because it misrepresents Jesus. And it alienates potential converts. This was definitely on topic. The rest simply questioned "Christian Involvement" in such an organization.
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@Dave_L said:
@Jan said:
@Dave_L said:
I respect your thoughts, but as a "Christian" forum, why is questioning a Christian's involvement in a group that condones gun violence out of order?It's not out of order at all. Hijacking a thread is (mildly) out of order though, especially if the original poster is already upset about it.
Anyway, my offer to split the thread stands. If you want productive and fruitful discussion to happen, this is the recommended way to move forward.
I don't want to play the moderator or forum owner card to solve this disagreement. We're all grown up and mature Christians here. If I do it now, I will have to do it all the time.
I did not take David's post off topic. He called those who oppose the NRA the "crazy Left". I responded by saying something like "Christians should not align with the Left or Right" because it misrepresents Jesus. And it alienates potential converts. This was definitely on topic. The rest simply questioned "Christian Involvement" in such an organization.
Actually that is factually false. I said we hear about evils of the NRA from the crazy left. I did not say everyone who opposes the NRA is the crazy left so yes, you did in fact take it off topic.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@Jan said:
@Dave_L said:
I respect your thoughts, but as a "Christian" forum, why is questioning a Christian's involvement in a group that condones gun violence out of order?It's not out of order at all. Hijacking a thread is (mildly) out of order though, especially if the original poster is already upset about it.
Anyway, my offer to split the thread stands. If you want productive and fruitful discussion to happen, this is the recommended way to move forward.
I don't want to play the moderator or forum owner card to solve this disagreement. We're all grown up and mature Christians here. If I do it now, I will have to do it all the time.
I did not take David's post off topic. He called those who oppose the NRA the "crazy Left". I responded by saying something like "Christians should not align with the Left or Right" because it misrepresents Jesus. And it alienates potential converts. This was definitely on topic. The rest simply questioned "Christian Involvement" in such an organization.
Actually that is factually false. I said we hear about evils of the NRA from the crazy left. I did not say everyone who opposes the NRA is the crazy left so yes, you did in fact take it off topic.
Calling the Left crazy is misrepresenting Christ and alienating potential converts. And I needed to oppose your personal bias with a level playing field before commenting on the rest.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@Jan said:
@Dave_L said:
I respect your thoughts, but as a "Christian" forum, why is questioning a Christian's involvement in a group that condones gun violence out of order?It's not out of order at all. Hijacking a thread is (mildly) out of order though, especially if the original poster is already upset about it.
Anyway, my offer to split the thread stands. If you want productive and fruitful discussion to happen, this is the recommended way to move forward.
I don't want to play the moderator or forum owner card to solve this disagreement. We're all grown up and mature Christians here. If I do it now, I will have to do it all the time.
I did not take David's post off topic. He called those who oppose the NRA the "crazy Left". I responded by saying something like "Christians should not align with the Left or Right" because it misrepresents Jesus. And it alienates potential converts. This was definitely on topic. The rest simply questioned "Christian Involvement" in such an organization.
Actually that is factually false. I said we hear about evils of the NRA from the crazy left. I did not say everyone who opposes the NRA is the crazy left so yes, you did in fact take it off topic.
Calling the Left crazy is misrepresenting Christ and alienating potential converts. And I needed to oppose your personal bias with a level playing field before commenting on the rest.
Which you still have yet to do. And I'm sorry, I don't care about whether or not you personally think it misrepresents Christ, the leftists views are crazy. You, however, tend to be self-righteous thinking you own the corner on what is Biblical and what is not. So yes, I have a personal bias, I readily admit that. But you hijack a thread to point out the bias that nobody has a question about and refuse to answer the original post so you can make yourself feel righteous. That's pretty messed up.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@Jan said:
@Dave_L said:
I respect your thoughts, but as a "Christian" forum, why is questioning a Christian's involvement in a group that condones gun violence out of order?It's not out of order at all. Hijacking a thread is (mildly) out of order though, especially if the original poster is already upset about it.
Anyway, my offer to split the thread stands. If you want productive and fruitful discussion to happen, this is the recommended way to move forward.
I don't want to play the moderator or forum owner card to solve this disagreement. We're all grown up and mature Christians here. If I do it now, I will have to do it all the time.
I did not take David's post off topic. He called those who oppose the NRA the "crazy Left". I responded by saying something like "Christians should not align with the Left or Right" because it misrepresents Jesus. And it alienates potential converts. This was definitely on topic. The rest simply questioned "Christian Involvement" in such an organization.
Actually that is factually false. I said we hear about evils of the NRA from the crazy left. I did not say everyone who opposes the NRA is the crazy left so yes, you did in fact take it off topic.
Calling the Left crazy is misrepresenting Christ and alienating potential converts. And I needed to oppose your personal bias with a level playing field before commenting on the rest.
Which you still have yet to do. And I'm sorry, I don't care about whether or not you personally think it misrepresents Christ, the leftists views are crazy. You, however, tend to be self-righteous thinking you own the corner on what is Biblical and what is not. So yes, I have a personal bias, I readily admit that. But you hijack a thread to point out the bias that nobody has a question about and refuse to answer the original post so you can make yourself feel righteous. That's pretty messed up.
You asked what is wrong with the NRA. And I answered that we have the God ordained Civil Magistrate who defends the Constitution and the nation. Adding that the NRA is unchristian.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@Jan said:
@Dave_L said:
I respect your thoughts, but as a "Christian" forum, why is questioning a Christian's involvement in a group that condones gun violence out of order?It's not out of order at all. Hijacking a thread is (mildly) out of order though, especially if the original poster is already upset about it.
Anyway, my offer to split the thread stands. If you want productive and fruitful discussion to happen, this is the recommended way to move forward.
I don't want to play the moderator or forum owner card to solve this disagreement. We're all grown up and mature Christians here. If I do it now, I will have to do it all the time.
I did not take David's post off topic. He called those who oppose the NRA the "crazy Left". I responded by saying something like "Christians should not align with the Left or Right" because it misrepresents Jesus. And it alienates potential converts. This was definitely on topic. The rest simply questioned "Christian Involvement" in such an organization.
Actually that is factually false. I said we hear about evils of the NRA from the crazy left. I did not say everyone who opposes the NRA is the crazy left so yes, you did in fact take it off topic.
Calling the Left crazy is misrepresenting Christ and alienating potential converts. And I needed to oppose your personal bias with a level playing field before commenting on the rest.
Which you still have yet to do. And I'm sorry, I don't care about whether or not you personally think it misrepresents Christ, the leftists views are crazy. You, however, tend to be self-righteous thinking you own the corner on what is Biblical and what is not. So yes, I have a personal bias, I readily admit that. But you hijack a thread to point out the bias that nobody has a question about and refuse to answer the original post so you can make yourself feel righteous. That's pretty messed up.
You asked what is wrong with the NRA. And I answered that we have the God ordained Civil Magistrate who defends the Constitution and the nation. Adding that the NRA is unchristian.
No, I asked what specific things the NRA has done that is evil and wrong.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@Jan said:
@Dave_L said:
I respect your thoughts, but as a "Christian" forum, why is questioning a Christian's involvement in a group that condones gun violence out of order?It's not out of order at all. Hijacking a thread is (mildly) out of order though, especially if the original poster is already upset about it.
Anyway, my offer to split the thread stands. If you want productive and fruitful discussion to happen, this is the recommended way to move forward.
I don't want to play the moderator or forum owner card to solve this disagreement. We're all grown up and mature Christians here. If I do it now, I will have to do it all the time.
I did not take David's post off topic. He called those who oppose the NRA the "crazy Left". I responded by saying something like "Christians should not align with the Left or Right" because it misrepresents Jesus. And it alienates potential converts. This was definitely on topic. The rest simply questioned "Christian Involvement" in such an organization.
Actually that is factually false. I said we hear about evils of the NRA from the crazy left. I did not say everyone who opposes the NRA is the crazy left so yes, you did in fact take it off topic.
Calling the Left crazy is misrepresenting Christ and alienating potential converts. And I needed to oppose your personal bias with a level playing field before commenting on the rest.
Which you still have yet to do. And I'm sorry, I don't care about whether or not you personally think it misrepresents Christ, the leftists views are crazy. You, however, tend to be self-righteous thinking you own the corner on what is Biblical and what is not. So yes, I have a personal bias, I readily admit that. But you hijack a thread to point out the bias that nobody has a question about and refuse to answer the original post so you can make yourself feel righteous. That's pretty messed up.
You asked what is wrong with the NRA. And I answered that we have the God ordained Civil Magistrate who defends the Constitution and the nation. Adding that the NRA is unchristian.
No, I asked what specific things the NRA has done that is evil and wrong.
Why do they exist if Government already protects and defends the Constitution?
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@Jan said:
@Dave_L said:
I respect your thoughts, but as a "Christian" forum, why is questioning a Christian's involvement in a group that condones gun violence out of order?It's not out of order at all. Hijacking a thread is (mildly) out of order though, especially if the original poster is already upset about it.
Anyway, my offer to split the thread stands. If you want productive and fruitful discussion to happen, this is the recommended way to move forward.
I don't want to play the moderator or forum owner card to solve this disagreement. We're all grown up and mature Christians here. If I do it now, I will have to do it all the time.
I did not take David's post off topic. He called those who oppose the NRA the "crazy Left". I responded by saying something like "Christians should not align with the Left or Right" because it misrepresents Jesus. And it alienates potential converts. This was definitely on topic. The rest simply questioned "Christian Involvement" in such an organization.
Actually that is factually false. I said we hear about evils of the NRA from the crazy left. I did not say everyone who opposes the NRA is the crazy left so yes, you did in fact take it off topic.
Calling the Left crazy is misrepresenting Christ and alienating potential converts. And I needed to oppose your personal bias with a level playing field before commenting on the rest.
Which you still have yet to do. And I'm sorry, I don't care about whether or not you personally think it misrepresents Christ, the leftists views are crazy. You, however, tend to be self-righteous thinking you own the corner on what is Biblical and what is not. So yes, I have a personal bias, I readily admit that. But you hijack a thread to point out the bias that nobody has a question about and refuse to answer the original post so you can make yourself feel righteous. That's pretty messed up.
You asked what is wrong with the NRA. And I answered that we have the God ordained Civil Magistrate who defends the Constitution and the nation. Adding that the NRA is unchristian.
No, I asked what specific things the NRA has done that is evil and wrong.
Why do they exist if Government already protects and defends the Constitution?
You are crazy if you believe that is true.
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While Jan's advisory earlier in this thread seems to endorse your concern that this thread stay on the course you chart for it, David, the part of his advisory that you seem not inclined to heed is this...
@Jan said:
Guys, please let me remind you to be respectful in your discussion.Some examples from your posts, just in this thread...
- "Clearly you don't know what you are talking about."
- "Answer the actual question of the original post or go away."
- "But you hijack a thread to point out the bias that nobody has a question about and refuse to answer the original post so you can make yourself feel righteous. That's pretty messed up."
- "You are crazy if you believe that is true."
Is it any less appropriate for us to expect that you will respond with respect to points of view different from yours than it is for you to expect that posters to your thread will adhere to the course you chart for it?
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@Jan said:
@Dave_L said:
I respect your thoughts, but as a "Christian" forum, why is questioning a Christian's involvement in a group that condones gun violence out of order?It's not out of order at all. Hijacking a thread is (mildly) out of order though, especially if the original poster is already upset about it.
Anyway, my offer to split the thread stands. If you want productive and fruitful discussion to happen, this is the recommended way to move forward.
I don't want to play the moderator or forum owner card to solve this disagreement. We're all grown up and mature Christians here. If I do it now, I will have to do it all the time.
I did not take David's post off topic. He called those who oppose the NRA the "crazy Left". I responded by saying something like "Christians should not align with the Left or Right" because it misrepresents Jesus. And it alienates potential converts. This was definitely on topic. The rest simply questioned "Christian Involvement" in such an organization.
Actually that is factually false. I said we hear about evils of the NRA from the crazy left. I did not say everyone who opposes the NRA is the crazy left so yes, you did in fact take it off topic.
Calling the Left crazy is misrepresenting Christ and alienating potential converts. And I needed to oppose your personal bias with a level playing field before commenting on the rest.
Which you still have yet to do. And I'm sorry, I don't care about whether or not you personally think it misrepresents Christ, the leftists views are crazy. You, however, tend to be self-righteous thinking you own the corner on what is Biblical and what is not. So yes, I have a personal bias, I readily admit that. But you hijack a thread to point out the bias that nobody has a question about and refuse to answer the original post so you can make yourself feel righteous. That's pretty messed up.
You asked what is wrong with the NRA. And I answered that we have the God ordained Civil Magistrate who defends the Constitution and the nation. Adding that the NRA is unchristian.
No, I asked what specific things the NRA has done that is evil and wrong.
Why do they exist if Government already protects and defends the Constitution?
You are crazy if you believe that is true.
How can the NRA protect the constitution if the professionally trained US Military cannot?
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@Bill_Coley said:
While Jan's advisory earlier in this thread seems to endorse your concern that this thread stay on the course you chart for it, David, the part of his advisory that you seem not inclined to heed is this...@Jan said:
Guys, please let me remind you to be respectful in your discussion.Some examples from your posts, just in this thread...
- "Clearly you don't know what you are talking about."
I don't view this comment as disrespectful.
- "Answer the actual question of the original post or go away."
Let me rephrase this, "answer the actual question of the original post or start a new thread"
- "But you hijack a thread to point out the bias that nobody has a question about and refuse to answer the original post so you can make yourself feel righteous. That's pretty messed up."
You are correct. @Dave_L I apologize for this statement it was out of line and inappropriate for the public forum.
- "You are crazy if you believe that is true."
I don't view this as disrespectful but rather my view of the statement.
Is it any less appropriate for us to expect that you will respond with respect to points of view different from yours than it is for you to expect that posters to your thread will adhere to the course you chart for it?
Fair point Bill. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I do get passionate about these topics at times.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
Some examples from your posts, just in this thread...
- "Clearly you don't know what you are talking about."
I don't view this comment as disrespectful.
"You don't know what you're talking about" is a criticism of the person making the statements, not the statements themselves.
ALTERNATIVE: "I think your view is called into question by facts A, B, and C."
- "Answer the actual question of the original post or go away."
Let me rephrase this, "answer the actual question of the original post or start a new thread"
I think your reworked statement is far superior to its predecessor.
- "But you hijack a thread to point out the bias that nobody has a question about and refuse to answer the original post so you can make yourself feel righteous. That's pretty messed up."
You are correct. @Dave_L I apologize for this statement it was out of line and inappropriate for the public forum.
Thank you for standing accountable.
- "You are crazy if you believe that is true."
I don't view this as disrespectful but rather my view of the statement.
To accuse a person of being "crazy" for believing what he or she believes is a commentary about the person, not his or her beliefs.
ALTERNATIVE: "I strongly disagree with your views on that issue because...."
Is it any less appropriate for us to expect that you will respond with respect to points of view different from yours than it is for you to expect that posters to your thread will adhere to the course you chart for it?
Fair point Bill. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I do get passionate about these topics at times.
Thank you for standing accountable.
A significant reason our partisan politics are so destructive these days is that in their passions, people on both sides of the political spectrum exert far less impulse control over the way they talk about the "other side" than the minimum standards of common decency require. Such bad communication tactics add ill will to the disagreements.
Sadly, because the "middle ground" in politics is shrinking, more and more of today's political speech comes from residents of the more conservative or more liberal wings of the spectrum, a fact which increases the incidence of destructive, disrespectful discourse.
In most cases, when common decency rules our speech it's not a problem to disagree, even strongly, with another person's ideas. But when speech infects communication with ill will, the chances of genuine dialogue diminish greatly, primarily because one or both sides have usually expressed disrespect for each other.
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@Bill_Coley I am curious about your views on the wrongs of the NRA.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Bill_Coley I am curious about your views on the wrongs of the NRA.I don't have time to write an expansive essay on this subject, so you get the following:
- The NRA started in response to the terrible marksmanship scores two former Union generals observed in some Civil War recruits (something like 1/1,000 shots actually hit a Confederate soldier!) For much of the next century, the organization focused on improving the skills of gun owners. Had the NRA remained that kind of organization, I would not object to it today, and we'd have far more sensible gun laws in place.
- In the 1930's and again in the 1960's, the NRA worked constructively within the legislative process to create, renew, and strengthen iconic gun control laws such as the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Gun Control Act of 1938. Had the NRA maintained such a reasonable approach to sensible, necessary gun laws - in the 60's, as a response to the Kennedy and King assassinations - I wouldn't object to it today, and we'd have far more sensible gun laws in place.
- Hardliners took over the NRA in the 1970's, laying the foundation for today's guns veritably everywhere approach.
- Programmatically, the NRA's work to insert a 10 year sunset provision into the assault weapons ban told me everything I needed to know about the organization. Did the assault weapons ban work? (until it expired in 2004) Judge for yourself from this chart that reports the average number of mass shootings per year in the 20 years before the ban, the ten years of the ban, and the ten years after the ban... (see accompanying article HERE)
The assault weapons ban made a difference, yet the NRA worked to get rid of it.
- I have disdain for the organization's vision of a weaponized America, with guns on display and at the ready in schools, churches, public parks, mass transit systems, and about anywhere else people are. Though I detest guns, I accept the Second Amendment. But I do not accept - in fact, I am horrified by - the NRA's vision for the place of guns in our society.
- Politically, the NRA continue to morph well beyond its originating purpose. Today, for example, in his CPAC speech Wayne LaPierre demonized those he views as his group's political opponents using particularly vile and divisive language:
"I hear a lot of quiet in this room, and I sense your anxiety. And you should be anxious, and you should be frightened. If they seize power, if these so-called 'European socialists' take over the House and the Senate, and God forbid they get the White House again, our Americans freedoms could be lost and our country will be changed forever."
In my view, that's garbage talk.
I don't consider the NRA to be evil. I tend not to put people or the organizations they create on a "good" / "evil" continuum. But I do consider the NRA to be a threat to the security of our society as it stands in the way of needed gun law reforms. I'm praying and this year I hope will be working to elect people across the nation who will say no to the NRA, not because it's "evil," but because it's wrong.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
We constantly hear about the evils of the NRA from the crazy left. Can someone please spell out to me the wrongdoings of the NRA?N-- No one or Nothing else matters. No other point of views; No compromises; Naferious.
R-- Remember the Second Amendment; Recalling of Guns.
A-- Arm everyone, especially teachers. Accuse the Democrats/alert the media" of the imminent appeal of the Second Amendment. "They are coming for our guns!"
In short, the NRA and 99% of its membership:
1. Lack compassion
2. Unsympathetic
3. Closed mindedIt's sad, we can't legislate heart and "common sense." Need I, say more? CM
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@Bill_Coley said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Bill_Coley I am curious about your views on the wrongs of the NRA.I don't have time to write an expansive essay on this subject, so you get the following:
- The NRA started in response to the terrible marksmanship scores two former Union generals observed in some Civil War recruits (something like 1/1,000 shots actually hit a Confederate soldier!) For much of the next century, the organization focused on improving the skills of gun owners. Had the NRA remained that kind of organization, I would not object to it today, and we'd have far more sensible gun laws in place.
Ok, so far I don't see what is wrong.
- In the 1930's and again in the 1960's, the NRA worked constructively within the legislative process to create, renew, and strengthen iconic gun control laws such as the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Gun Control Act of 1938. Had the NRA maintained such a reasonable approach to sensible, necessary gun laws - in the 60's, as a response to the Kennedy and King assassinations - I wouldn't object to it today, and we'd have far more sensible gun laws in place.
Still not seeing the problem.
- Hardliners took over the NRA in the 1970's, laying the foundation for today's guns veritably everywhere approach.
Still don't see the evil of the NRA here.
- Programmatically, the NRA's work to insert a 10 year sunset provision into the assault weapons ban told me everything I needed to know about the organization. Did the assault weapons ban work? (until it expired in 2004) Judge for yourself from this chart that reports the average number of mass shootings per year in the 20 years before the ban, the ten years of the ban, and the ten years after the ban... (see accompanying article HERE)
The assault weapons ban made a difference, yet the NRA worked to get rid of it.
This is flawed statistics as it does not take in other factors. That being said, you still had mass shootings with the AWB so it clearly didn't work that well or stop mass shootings.
- I have disdain for the organization's vision of a weaponized America, with guns on display and at the ready in schools, churches, public parks, mass transit systems, and about anywhere else people are. Though I detest guns, I accept the Second Amendment. But I do not accept - in fact, I am horrified by - the NRA's vision for the place of guns in our society.
Yet that is how the founder's saw and envisioned the 2nd ammendment. You realize guns were everywhere in those days too right? That isn't the NRA's vision, it is the founders.
- Politically, the NRA continue to morph well beyond its originating purpose. Today, for example, in his CPAC speech Wayne LaPierre demonized those he views as his group's political opponents using particularly vile and divisive language:
"I hear a lot of quiet in this room, and I sense your anxiety. And you should be anxious, and you should be frightened. If they seize power, if these so-called 'European socialists' take over the House and the Senate, and God forbid they get the White House again, our Americans freedoms could be lost and our country will be changed forever."
In my view, that's garbage talk.
How is that garbage talk?
I don't consider the NRA to be evil. I tend not to put people or the organizations they create on a "good" / "evil" continuum. But I do consider the NRA to be a threat to the security of our society as it stands in the way of needed gun law reforms. I'm praying and this year I hope will be working to elect people across the nation who will say no to the NRA, not because it's "evil," but because it's wrong.
We have already proven that gun reform isn't the next logical step. This latest incident, as most incidents, could have been prevented without more gun control.
