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        <title>Biblical Studies — Christian Debate</title>
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        <pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2026 10:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
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            <description>Biblical Studies — Christian Debate</description>
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        <title>The Beast Revelation</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/839/the-beast-revelation</link>
        <pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2020 18:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
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        <description><![CDATA[<p><strong>The Beast Revelation</strong></p><p>This letter is dedicated to all Christians.</p><p><em>The following letter is a summary of Revelation 13. Its purpose is to show the method used in finding the conclusions which have been stated. Nothing new has been added from my previous letters. It is more of a compilation of them all. This writing is the same material in different words. The Bible uses this same method of explanation. There are four Gospels. In each you see a different view of the same material. This can be beneficial because the meaning becomes more exact. Although, if this is a first time reader, then this will all be news to you. With that in mind, here we go.</em></p><p>The first thing that should be addressed when doing any study of Bible prophecy is what questions do I intend to answer. Some of these questions can seem a little simplistic, but their answers are much more complicated. In my studies there were only a few questions that I saw as needing an answer. My questions were very simple. First, who is this individual who is identified by the number 666? Second, who is the false prophet and how does he make the whole world worship the beast whose number is 666. Another question has to do with these same individuals. Could these two individuals be the same person, or for that matter Satan himself? Where is Satan during all this? That last question is very important. It actually goes straight to the answer of all the questions. Finally, when would someone expect to see these individuals on the Earth? Literally, what time frame should I see them? Those are the questions. The answers are much more involved.</p><p>This narrative will attempt to show how the answers are figured out. These answers can be seen from events that happen in the nightly news. This leads me to a key, which most of us know, but most of us forget. The Bible is a history book. Some events have happened, while some are waiting to happen. It is the ones that have not happened that we are most concerned with. Here is another key. By the way, these keys I speak of are keys to understanding. The Lord spoke in parables. The reason he gave was that it was for some to know the mysteries of God, while it was for some to know not. In hearing, they do not hear. In seeing, they do not see. I compare it to telling the truth, while hiding it at the same time. Many of the parables that the Lord spoke he immediately gave an answer to. He showed how he used certain symbols and words to describe subjects and then gave their meanings. Now for the punch line. The Lord also spoke in parables that he did not identify. These parables go straight to the hidden meaning of these end times. Another key is word substitution. An example of this is a pretty well-known item from Revelation. This word substitution deals with Revelation 13:1. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. In Revelation 17 those heads and horns are defined. The heads are identified as mountains, while the horns are identified as kings. This changes the whole picture of what the beast is symbolically to what it is literally. Now Rev.13:1 can be read as follows with just the items discussed thus far. And I saw a beast rise up out of the sea having seven mountains and ten kings. That is a simple and easy word substitution. Know that this will happen many times throughout the Bible.</p><p>Now, getting back to the questions. The question is, where is Satan? If this question can be answered, you can eliminate some others. Some prophecy teachers believe that Satan is the beast, or that Satan is the false prophet. This interpretation is misleading, and it also creates a stumbling block in the path to a proper interpretation. I almost always get this question. How can you know who the beast is when he cannot be revealed? 2nd Thess. Chapter 2 states that he cannot be revealed, until something is removed first. Most scholars have this part right. That is a picture of the Rapture. What they have wrong is that Satan and the beast are not the same individual. Satan cannot be revealed until after the rapture, but he is not the beast. Therefore, I can identify the beast and his false prophet. People say prove it. So I did. I told them how to understand using the keys that I have mentioned. Revelation 13 is a parable, but God is not giving the definition, or the explanation. This one is for us to figure out. Ok, so where is Satan? In the book of Job, we get a view of Satan's abilities. In one scene, he is discussing with God about Job. Question, where is God? He is in heaven. Also, in his conversation with God Satan is talking as if he knows and has seen Job. God declares that he can do whatever he wants to Job, but he was not allowed to kill him. Now we know something else about Satan. He also has access to the Earth, and can affect peoples lives. So, it appears that Satan can be everywhere he wants to be, on Earth or in heaven. We know Satan and his angels will be cast out of heaven as per Revelation 12. This would further the idea that he is now in heaven. We also see Satan one other time, when he tempted Christ during his time on Earth. It says that he was taken to the wilderness to be tempted of Satan? Most people, and rightly so, have thought the wilderness to be a place on Earth, but this is a parable I believe. The Lord was in the wilderness and was tempted by Satan, but the wilderness is in heaven. This parable is read in Isaiah 35. It is the wilderness and the solitary place where the redeemed of the Lord walk. So, this last item being the most hard to prove, suffice it to say, that when Rev.12 says Satan will be cast out, he must be there in heaven to be cast out. Alright, now we can answer a couple questions. One, Satan is himself, and he is in heaven. Therefore, he is not the beast or the false prophet. These three work together, but each has his own identity.</p><p>Now to dissect Revelation 13. As I have already stated, Revelation 13 is a word substitution parable. The seven heads are seven mountains and the ten horns are ten kings. Ok, we know from this description that the beast as described is a group of possibly ten countries. This brings me to another point. There are three definitions for the beast in Revelation 13. The first is a group of countries rising up out of the sea. The second is in Rev.13:11 and is a beast with two horns (kings). Remember horns are kings as per Rev. 17. Finally, there is a beast who is identified by the number 666. It is this last beast that causes all to receive a mark and that no man can buy and sell save he who has the mark, his number, or his name. There are three items here. Nowhere does it say that the mark is the number 666. This might have been a good guess 20 yrs. ago , but it is pretty hard to believe. Imagine people running around with a mark of 666 on their right hands. It sounds like a cartoon, but this is what the prophecy teachers want you to believe. Ok, another problem that sounds like a cartoon is the interpretation of the word "all." They want you to believe that no man could buy or sell if they did not worship the beast and take his mark. Interpreting the word "all" to mean everyone in the world. This is not the case. For one, we know that the beast is made up of only possibly ten countries. Everyone in this world lives in roughly 190 countries. I don't think we could possibly mean everyone. How about, all of those people concerned with the mark. Also, how do you cause all people concerned to receive a mark, and why? The most obvious way to mark everyone is at the voting booth. All people, rich and poor, small and great, or free and bond are potential voters. So, Mahmoud Abbas was elected president of the Palestinian Authority, and in the process all voters received an indelible ink mark on their right hands. This mark was to prevent double voting and corruption in the election. Ok, we have a mark. It is not 666. At this point he fits the part, but not completely. Still, there is no ready identification of 666 concerning him. This election was in January 2005.</p><p>Back to Rev.13. We have seven mountains and ten kings. Prophecy teachers want us to believe that a city with seven mountains is the seat of the antichrist and he rules with ten nations. Their logical conclusion was the Europe Union and the Vatican. This started the revived Roman empire theory. This theory has been around since the reformation. It is hard to believe this charade has gone on so long. Teachers are still preaching the Revived Roman Empire. This theory had some validity before the twentieth century and now has to be eliminated. None of these teachers could have predicted the fall of the Ottoman Empire and its division into so many separate sovereign nations. Back to our word substitution. There is an interesting item here concerning the word mountains in scripture. The word mountains can have two meanings. It can be either a mountain range, or a nation. This is the hardest part of this whole exercise, trying to figure out what mountains are describing. Teachers will have you believe it is a city with seven mountains. In actual fact, mountains here are referring to nations. This also pertains to the head wound. The wound was not a literal head wound at all, but was a nation that was wounded. The beast's head or nation was wounded and was healed. This is the Palestinian Authority after the beginning of the Oslo Accords. The land that Israel possessed was now being given back to the Palestinians and the beast's nation is being healed. Ok, so now I have seven nations and ten kings, Rev.13:1. Why do I have three more kings than nations? It seems I have a king for each nation, but three left over. In Daniel in says the beast subdued three kings. These three kings don't necessarily have to be from different countries. It seems so, but is not expressly mentioned. It is another parable. The three kings who were subdued by the beast were Israeli Prime Ministers. These three Prime Ministers all served during the seven years of the Oslo Accords and were voted out of office because of terror perpetrated during Yasser Arafat's rule. Now, I am down to seven nations. These seven nations will wage war. I can easily see seven nations that will wage war here very soon; Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iran and the Palestinian Authority or Iraq, and there opponent Israel. This is exactly the same beast that is presented in Rev.17:10, just in a slightly different appearance. There are seven kings, five are fallen. This means five kings were defeated in war. Israel is referred to the "one that is," and the one that came later is the Palestinian Authority. This is a description of Israel's war for Independence. Literally, this was the beast being born. The war in 1967 is the beast rising up out of the sea in Rev.13:1. It was the unresolved issues of this conflict that resulted in the Oslo Accords of 1993. This seven year peace treaty was confirmed by Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat.</p><p>Now, there is another beast in Rev.13:11. This beast has two horns or kings. This is a picture of the Palestinian Authority after the elections of January 2006. This is when Hamas ran in the elections and won a majority in parliament. Now the P.A. was a country with two kings. Abbas was the President and Ismail Haniyeh was the Prime Minister. Here is where the problem with money came about. Western Nations did not want to donate money to a known terrorist organization so looked for a way they could still fund Abbas's P.A., but not let any money get to Hamas. <strong>This is when the number 666 identified an individual. </strong>The temporary international mechanism was adopted on June 16, 2006. This program allowed Western Nations to donate funds directly to Abbas, while bypassing Hamas. If you were a member of Fatah, or on Abbas's payroll you got paid. This is how the people were allowed to buy and sell. They received salaries, whereas before the mechanism, they had no way of getting paid from the Government. Hamas did not receive salaries. Also, Hamas did not receive the mark of the beast. They boycotted the elections for President in Jan. 2005.</p><p>It is more obvious who is being talked about the closer you get to the end.</p><p>In conclusion, to my three beast definitions. Mahmoud Abbas fits all three definitions. He was a member of the P.A. when it was formed. He took over from Yasser Arafat after his death. He was one of the two kings of the second beast in Rev.13:11. Lastly, he is the one identified by the number 666, which could have been Arafat had he lived.</p><p>Now, concerning the false prophet. The following four verses below all refer to the false prophet, Ismail Haniyeh.</p><p><strong><em>Rev.13:11- and I beheld another beast coming up out of the Earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.</em></strong></p><p><strong><em>Rev.13:12- And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein, to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.</em></strong></p><p><strong><em>Rev.13:13- "And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the Earth in the sight of men". </em></strong></p><p><strong><em>Rev.13:15- And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast, should be killed.</em></strong></p><p>Hamas exercised all the power of the first beast (Abbas's P.A.) because they were now an equal partner in the Government. Also, the leader of Hamas caused them to worship or honor the first beast because Hamas would not honor the first beast. The first beast was the PA without Hamas as a member. The image of the beast is what the Government of Mahmoud Abbas represented. Verse 12 does not mention the image yet, we are just informed that the false prophet caused them to worship the first beast. Verse 14 and 15 gives the details of how that worshipping or honor was to commence. An image was created of the first beast that he (the false prophet) caused to be honored. This image of the beast is three items; the recognition of Israel, the honoring of all prior Palestinian agreements, and a renunciation of terror.</p><p>The last question I think that needs addressed is how do you know the timing is right? Meaning, there have been so many translations, how do you know that this one is correct? This is a question I always get asked. The answer, in my mind, is sort of a mix between two different prophecies. The first is the seven day prophecy as recorded in Genesis. It is a similitude between this and the amount of recorded time that has already happened on Earth. In the book of Peter, God says one day to him is as a thousand years. If that idea is applied to the Genesis creation, everyday that God created something one thousand years passed. Finally, on the last day he rested from his work, and his rest was one thousand years or one of God's days. This was one full week or 7000 years. After God's rest he started his work again, and he created Adam. Starting with Adam, it was approximately 4000 years to the time of Christ. Also, we know that Christ was here roughly 2000 years ago. If God was to be consistent with his one week schedule, then we could expect his day of rest to fall somewhere after the year two thousand. 4000 plus 2000 is six days and on the seventh he rested for one thousand years. This is not an exact estimate, but it can put you in the right ballpark when searching for the correct timing of Revelation. This is the estimate. The next item is more exact. Daniel 9:27 says that he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. Many in Hebrew is Rab. This was a covenant confirmed with Yitzhak Rabin. It was the beginning of land for peace, or the Oslo Accords. When you see this agreement happen you should be aware that this prophecy will last seven years. There is only one problem with this item. Prior to it happening, everyone thought that the end of the seventh year of the agreement God would return and begin his rest. Well, that did not happen. The reason was a logical misinterpretation. It just mentions that this agreement must occur along with the prophecies mentioned, not that they would all happen and end on the last day of the seventh year. This has thrown everyone watching off-course for a time. Although, this was not such a terrible mistake if the watcher could see the right answer and get his, or her perspective back. When you have these two items coinciding at the expected time, then you know Revelation can be interpreted with accuracy. The events should start happening, as they have, as I have recorded in this letter.</p><p>May God bless all who read this letter.</p><p>Michael</p>]]>
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        <title>Ready or Not… Here Comes Jehovah’s Day!</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1163/ready-or-not-here-comes-jehovah-s-day</link>
        <pubDate>Tue, 07 Jan 2025 09:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
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<p>Jehovah set a day in which the living on earth whom are now living will soon be judged and the population will be completely oblivious to the fact. Jehovah knew the Day and Hour he set for when He uttered the First Prophecy in the Garden of Eden. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/genesis/3/#v1003015" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Genesis 3:15</a>) Amazingly this Sacred Secret is now being slowly revealed here on earth to his servants that are called by <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/acts/15/#v44015014" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>His Name</strong></a><strong> </strong>(Jehovah’s Witnesses).</p><p>The Bible gives us insight about Prophecies and that the Fulfillments of them are ‘timed events’. Prophecies often have two fulfillments, a Physical one and then a Spiritual one. In some cases, especially to chosen servants, it is vice versa. To the Spiritually Inclined, a Spiritual Revelation for them to take heed and escape with their lives. Then just a moment latter, as the chosen are escaping, the Revelation of the Prophecy is given to the wicked to allow that the death they are dying is a permanent and everlasting one. So timing and action will be needed at a precise time. After all, Jehovah is the Great Time Keeper.</p><p>The Prophet Daniel gained Spiritual Insight how long the Jews would be kept in captivity by the Babylonians. Prophecy must be backed up by two or three supporting scriptures to establish the matter, “<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-corinthians/13/#v47013001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>On the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter must be established</strong></a><strong>.</strong>”</p><ul><li>“Then you should lie on your left side and lay the guilt of the house of Israel on yourself. You will carry their guilt for the number of days that you lie on your side. And I will impose on you <strong>390 days, corresponding to the years of their guilt, </strong>and you will carry the guilt of the house of Israel.</li><li>And you must complete them. “Then for a second time you will lie down, on your right side, and <strong>you will carry the guilt of the house of Judah for 40 days. A day for a year, a day for a year, </strong>is what I have given you. </li></ul><p>Ezekiel was to lie on his left side for <strong>390 days to “carry the error of the house of Israel</strong>,” <strong>and on his right side for forty days to “carry the error of the house of Judah,</strong>” and each day was shown to stand for a year. <strong>The two periods (of 390 years and of 40 years) thus symbolized evidently stood for the length of Jehovah’s forbearance with the two kingdoms in their idolatrous course.</strong></p><ul><li>So the 390 years ran from the founding of Israel in 997 B.C.E. to the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E. <strong><em>— Prophecy fulfilled on 607 BCE</em></strong></li><li> Judah’s 40 years ran from Jeremiah’s appointment as God’s prophet in 647 B.C.E. to Judah’s desolation in 607 B.C.E.​ <strong><em>— Prophecy fulfilled on 607 BCE</em></strong></li><li>in the first year of his reign I, <strong>Daniel, discerned by the books the number of years mentioned in the word of Jehovah to Jeremiah the prophet to fulfill the desolation of Jerusalem, namely, 70 years.</strong> (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/9/#v27009002" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 9:2</a>) This date of 607 BCE were not known by Daniel until the Priests were slaughtered, the temple utensils were stolen and taken to Babylon along with those of noble birth including the teenage Daniel. Living the experience and studying the scroll of Jerimiah – along with that start date of 607 BCE, Daniel simply added 70 years to 607 BCE which brings us to 537 BCE.</li></ul><p>You will find that most scholar historians are in line with the Jews returning from exile in the year 537 BCE. So let’s do some simple math with the scriptures: <strong>537 BCE + 70 years = 607 BCE</strong></p><ul><li>And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and these nations will <strong>have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.</strong>” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/jeremiah/25/#v24025011" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Jeremiah 25:11</a>)</li><li>“But<strong> when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account</strong> the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’ declares Jehovah, (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/jeremiah/25/#v24025012" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Jeremiah 25:12</a>)</li></ul><p>The truth is simple and can be found by <strong>right hearted ones. </strong>It’s the wicked ones who do not have understanding. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/12/#v27012010" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>Daniel 12:10</strong></a>) Why not gain the knowledge you need to escape the Last Days as they come to their end? You can keep on living into <a href="https://jehovahwitnessqhub.wordpress.com/the-end-of-wickedness-is-now-at-hand" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the New World</a>, visit<strong> </strong><a href="https://www.jw.org/en/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>JW.org</strong> </a>today! Request a visit and <a href="https://hub.jw.org/request-visit/en/request" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Get Answers</a>.</p>]]>
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        <title>The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1136/the-final-phase-of-christs-presence-soon-to-be-revealed</link>
        <pubDate>Thu, 11 Apr 2024 00:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
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<p>When studying prophecy I have encountered a common denominator. The revealing of prophecy comes with a process. I have not yet come across a single prophecy that has occurred in an immediate fashion but rather in a slow revelation. (<a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=Matthew+24%3A29-31" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:29-31</a>) The phrase 'the tribulation of <em>those days</em>' refers to 'a<em> time of trouble</em>' or Last Days. Aren't these last days dark with <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024008" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">pangs of distress</a>? This <em>allotment of troubled times</em> is a <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-glossary/conclusion-system-of-things/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Conclusion of a System of things</a>. The End of the Gentile times in 1914 ushered in the Last Days. There was an Arabic term used in Biblical times when a Ruler fell from grace, the term used was <strong><em>'His Heaven has Fallen!</em></strong>" The effects would be felt by <strong><em>all the inhabitants</em></strong> of the earth. The scripture gives us some very detailed information as the scripture ends with, 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.' (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024029" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:29</a>) <em>It's Spiritual </em>and these signs or (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/8/#v66008013" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">woes</a>) have been occurring since 1914, the year Satan and his hordes were hurled out of Heaven onto the earth. Each of the three woes consist of <strong>a period of 40 years of refinement.</strong> "Woe, woe, woe to those dwelling on the earth" (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/8/#v66008013" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 8:13</a>)</p><p>As this third and final woe comes to its' end, Jesus will quietly begin to separate the faithful. The sudden appearance of the Great Crowd begins to be renewed and restored physically as they begin to outlive the wicked as they gain insight. (<a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/bl/r1/lp-e?q=daniel%2012%3A9-10" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 12: 9-10</a>) The wicked? Well, they have No Understanding at All. Not knowing which way is up or down. They become deaf, dumb, and stupid to <em>the truth BEFORE</em> they die the second death. In some cases, those who become so animalistic to do harm to the righteous may experience a sudden death in the manner of a <a href="https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expedite#:~:text=1,%3A%20speed%20up" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">expedited removal </a>of such ones. This will be a warning to the remaining ones as their life slowly ebbs away.</p><p>The following verse states, 'Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven'. That sign began in 1914 <strong>causing all the tribes of the earth to beat themselves in grief</strong>, including those who are rightly disposed for everlasting life, even those whom are anointed are not immune to Satan's woes upon the earth. "For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, so the Presence of the Son of man will be." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024027" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:27</a>) What is that sign? The four horsemen that ride, all have work to do. These <strong>four horsemen</strong> are part of that <a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005721" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Composite Sign</a> spoken of in Jesus' answer to the question, “Tell us, when will these things be, and <em>what will be the sign </em>of your Presence and of the Conclusion of the system of things?” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:3</a>) They give evidence of Christ's Presence as the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and glory.</p><p>Christ 'will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound,' but what is the purpose? 'They will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds'. "<em>The Lord himself</em> will descend from heaven with <strong>a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet</strong>, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/1-thessalonians/4/#v52004016" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1 Thess 4:16</a>) This prophecy was first spoken of at (<a href="https://www.brorando.com/post/a-new-world-approaches" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 12:1-2</a>) "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, <strong>until after we have sealed the slaves of our God</strong> in their foreheads.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/7/#v66007003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 7:3</a>) "And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000" (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/7/#v66007004" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 7:4</a>)</p><p>The completion of the sealing of the 144,000 paves the way for the Last Days to come to their end. With that, the (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024008" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">pangs of distress</a>) quietly come to their end for those rightly disposed for everlasting life, <strong>the Great Crowd</strong>. This very well could be the event that brings the Pollical Kings together proclaiming peace and security. "Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/1-thessalonians/5/#v52005003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1 Thessalonians 5:3</a>)</p><p>However, once the Last Days come to their end, the ones who are deceived by the Kings of Gog of Magog by <em>refusing to give Jehovah and his Anointed One credit</em> will begin dying a death of everlasting destruction, the second death with no hope of a resurrection. They die forever in the manner of Adam and Eve. However, as they die off without knowing of such, they do eventually begin to witness a wonderous phenomenon that positively provides undeniable proof of Christ's Presence as our Brothers and Sisters begin to Receive the Blessings of Jehovah's Kingdom Government. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/2/#v27002044" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 2:44</a>) This Revelation is the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory!</p><p>The Final Phase of Christ's Presence will <strong>Slowly Be Revealed as a Witness for All to SEE.</strong> The wicked will <strong>lament </strong>at seeing our Brothers and Sisters getting healthier as each day passes.</p><ul><li>"He forgives all your errors And heals all your ailments; He reclaims your life from the pit And crowns you with his loyal love and mercy. He satisfies you with good things all your life, So that your youth is renewed like that of an eagle." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/psalms/103/#v19103003-v19103005" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Psalm 103:3-5</a>)</li><li>"Let his flesh become fresher than in youth; Let him return to the days of his youthful vigor." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/job/33/#v18033025" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Job 33:25</a>)</li></ul><p>Once the wicked recognize <strong><em>the Reality</em></strong> that they are dying of sickness and old age, they will look for a faster way to die themselves. "In those days people will seek death but will by no means find it, and they will long to die, but death will flee from them." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/9/#v66009006" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 9:6</a>) The death they die will be a Slow one, so don't feel sorry for such ones who hate God's Holy Name with slander. They holler and scream with <a href="https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vitriol#:~:text=1,language%20or%20criticism" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>vitriol vile</strong></a> as they are tormented day and night at SEEING faithful brothers and sisters out live them becoming perfect in health little by little. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/exodus/23/#v2023030" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Exodus 23:30</a>) The sacred secret about <strong>the Great Tribulation</strong> that begins soon after<em> the Conclusion of the Last Days </em>is that it doesn't affect everyone, like <em>the tribulation of those days that began in 1914, </em>but <strong>only the wicked!</strong></p><p>Soon, very soon, Jehovah's Witnesses will end New Bible Studies and walk away from those who Jesus Christ has deemed hypocrites in (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-timothy/3/#v55003001-v55003005" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>2 Timothy 3:1-5</strong></a>). This phenomenal display will prove to be too much for the wicked who reviled your faith as they witness your vitality of unbounding health and happiness. "<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/awake-no1-2020-mar-apr/stress-free-life-possible/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Look! My servants will shout joyfully because of the good condition of the heart,</a> But you will cry out because of the pain of heart And you will wail because of a broken spirit." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/isaiah/65/#v23065014" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Isaiah 65:14</a>)</p>]]>
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        <title>God's Name Found in the Greek Scriptures under θεόν (theon).</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1122/gods-name-found-in-the-greek-scriptures-under-%CE%B8%CE%B5%CF%8C%CE%BD-theon</link>
        <pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2023 18:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1122@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
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<p>Imagine opening the Bible, and of all sudden, like a bolt of lightning, being instantly stuck with the Manifestation of God's Holy Name in the New Testament!</p><p>The Greek language contains two Greek titles for God.  The first title is <strong>θεόν </strong>(theon) and it refers to 'the God" as Supreme One or Self-Existent One. The second Greek title <strong>θεός </strong>(theos) can apply to God, a god, or gods and is shared with many. But <strong>θεόν </strong>(theon) refers to only to the True God as in (John 17:3).  <strong>θεόν </strong>(theon) is a superlative title given to Jehovah alone. </p><p>According to the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon. It mentions that later Hebrews, for some centuries before the time of Christ, either Misled by False Interpretation of certain laws, or else following some old superstition. Then goes on to tell us, that every time the later Hebrews came upon the Name of God, they substituted Lord. They also pointed out that <strong>θεόν </strong>was in reference to God's Name.  </p><div>
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<p>So let's try to insert our newly found information and see if it holds true. </p><ul><li>"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Jehovah, and the Word was a god."(John 1:1)</li><li>No man has seen Jehovah at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him. (John 1:18)</li></ul><p>Here are a few notable scriptures with the superlative title <strong>θεόν </strong>(theon) :</p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/text/john/14-1.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>John 14:1</strong></a><strong> </strong><a href="https://biblehub.com/abbrev.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>N-AMS</strong></a></p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/14.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">GRK:</a> εἰς τὸν <strong>θεόν</strong> καὶ εἰς</p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/nas/john/14.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">NAS:</a> believe <em>in God,</em> believe</p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/kjvs/john/14.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">KJV:</a> ye believe in <em>God,</em> believe also</p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/14-1.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">INT:</a> on <em>God</em> also on</p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/text/john/17-3.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>John 17:3</strong></a><strong> </strong><a href="https://biblehub.com/abbrev.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>N-AMS</strong></a></p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/17.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">GRK:</a> μόνον ἀληθινὸν <strong>θεὸν</strong> καὶ ὃν</p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/nas/john/17.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">NAS:</a> true <em>God,</em> and Jesus</p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/kjvs/john/17.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">KJV:</a> the only true <em>God,</em> and Jesus</p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/17-3.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">INT:</a> only true <em>God</em> and whom</p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/text/john/20-17.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>John 20:17</strong></a><strong> </strong><a href="https://biblehub.com/abbrev.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>N-AMS</strong></a></p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/20.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">GRK:</a> ὑμῶν καὶ <strong>θεόν</strong> μου καὶ</p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/nas/john/20.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">NAS:</a> and your Father, <em>and My God</em> and your God.'</p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/kjvs/john/20.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">KJV:</a> and [to] my <em>God,</em> and your</p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/20-17.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">INT:</a> of you and <em>God</em> of me and</p><p><br /></p><p>Inserting God's Name doesn't flow smoothly in all 148 Greek occurrences. For example, in John 17:3 inserting the meaning of the title <strong>θεόν </strong>(theon) not only fits, but gives deeper understanding.</p><ul><li>This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true Supreme One, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.</li><li>This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true Self-Existent One, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.</li></ul><p>Then again, the quote from Jesus Christ invoking the title <strong>θεόν </strong>in (John 14:1)</p><ul><li>Do not let your hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in Jehovah; exercise faith also in me.</li></ul><p><br /></p>]]>
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        <title>The Last Days… When?</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1135/the-last-days-when</link>
        <pubDate>Wed, 03 Apr 2024 02:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1135@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<h2><a href="https://jehovahwitnessqhub.wordpress.com/2024/04/02/the-last-days-when/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">The Last Days… When?</a></h2><div>
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<p>“But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.” (<a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=2+Timothy+3%3A1-5" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">2 Timothy 3:1-5</a>)</p><p><a href="https://www.brorando.com/post/the-last-days-when" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">The Last Days</a> (<em>pangs of distress</em>) do not last for an exhaustive period of time but do have an ending to them. It’s <em>an allotment period of time</em> of 120 years, like the Days of Noah. This allotment is a <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-glossary/conclusion-system-of-things/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Conclusion of a System of things</a>.</p><p><strong>Better times lay ahead of us as the pangs of distress come to their end, but not for everyone.</strong> “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/7/#v66007003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 7:3</a>) Notice that harm to the earth, sea, or trees are being withheld until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads. Once the total number of the 144,000 are sealed, then a colossal of other prophecies begin to become fulfilled. <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/1-corinthians/7/#v46007029" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Time left is reduced</a> and turning back will no longer be a recourse once the 144,000 are sealed, which will bring the end of ungodly people as they begin dying a permanent death with No Resurrection. The death they die is no longer a temporary death but a permanent one in the same manner that Adam and Eve died. They die forever!</p><p>The question about this prophecy is when. Will it be revealed in the future, or are we living it now? In the first part of 1914, the Bible Students known as International Bible Students Association discussed the <strong>“time of trouble”</strong> on the printed page called The Bible Students Monthly.</p><p>Early in 1914, an issue of The Bible Students Monthly was issued with the large bold heading “END OF WORLD IN 1914? Some have quoted the large headline of this tract as proof that Russell was expecting the “end of the world” in 1914. However, such ones neglect to read the subheading under the larger headline, which states: “NOT THE VIEW OF PASTOR RUSSELL NOR OF I.B.S.A.”</p><p><strong>International Bible Students Association:</strong> “Nevertheless, when viewed from God’s standpoint, we are still “shortly after” 1914. Although Russell himself did not think the time of trouble would be this long, he did allow that it could be. It is possible that the time allotted for this period is 120 years (1914+120=2034), but that these days will be “cut short” some time before they are allowed to reach their end. We do not put this forth as a “prophecy”, nor would we feel anything was wrong if 2034 came and went and nothing had happened as far the full binding of Satan and the destruction of his empire is concerned. All things are in God’s hands.”</p><p>What does 2034 represent? The Epiphaneia of Christ’s Presence <em>to the wicked ones</em> for the righteous already know of Christ Presence since 1914. The Epiphany was spoken of in the same article “END OF WORLD IN 1914?” It represents that Ah-ah moment of the realization of an undergoing prophecy. Jehovah’s people will soon start to notice their health is generally getting better a little at a time and start sharing these revelations with one another. The wicked and lawless ones will begin to notice when it’s too late to turn around and repent after many warnings of this day, they will be brought to nothing by the second and everlasting death. “Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and <strong><em>Bring to Nothing by the Manifestation of his Presence</em></strong>.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/2-thessalonians/2/#v53002008" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">2 Thessalonians 2:8</a>) The Greek word for manifestation is Epiphaneia…</p><p>This is where it is critical to gain the understanding of what the Great Tribulation is. <strong>The Great Tribulation is marked by an outbreak of “</strong><a href="https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/peace-and-security" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>Peace and Security!</strong></a><strong>”  </strong>During this short <a href="https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/respite" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">respite</a> of <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/Is-This-Life-All-There-Is/Could-It-Be-a-Masterful-Deception/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">DECEPTION</a> among the nations, the Bible reveals, “Why are the nations agitated And the peoples muttering an empty thing? The kings of the earth take their stand And high officials gather together as one Against Jehovah and against his anointed one.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/psalms/2/#v19002002" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Psalms 2:1-2</a>)</p><p>The Presence of the Son of of Man began in <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/1914-significant-year-bible-prophecy/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1914</a>. “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. <em> All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.</em>” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024007" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:7-8</a>)</p><p>“For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, <em>so the Presence of the Son of man will be.</em>” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024027" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:27</a>) Are you gaining the understanding that these things are fulfilled in a Spiritual Manner? Ever since <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/1914-significant-year-bible-prophecy/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1914</a>, right-hearted ones have been witnessing the Presence of the Son of man. After<strong> </strong><a href="https://jehovahwitnessqhub.wordpress.com/2024/02/20/2034-and-its-significance/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>2034</strong></a>, the wicked will also start to gain the understanding that they are really dying and lament all the way to their end of everlasting destruction.</p><p>As the <a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=2+Timothy+3%3A1-5" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Last Days</a> come to their conclusion and the separating work come to its completion, even the wicked will SEE after it is too late! Yes, the Revealing of the Son of Man will soon begin for the ‘ungodly’ as we begin heading into Christ Millennial Reign.</p><p>What is the ‘<em>sudden destruction</em>‘ that comes upon the unfaithful, <em>once the pangs of distress comes to their end?</em> The Bible reveals it in this manner:</p><ul><li>“And this is the scourge with which Jehovah will scourge all the peoples who wage war against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot away while they stand on their feet, their eyes will rot away in their sockets, and their tongues will rot away in their mouths.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/zechariah/14/#v38014012" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Zechariah 14:12</a>)</li></ul><p>These ones begin dying the same death as Adam and Eve are then figuratively hurled into <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/lake-of-fire/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the lake of fire</a>, they die ‘the second death’ knowing their death is well deserved but wailing to mountains fall over us! Jehovah warns the angel not to feel sorry for such ones. “And to the others he said in my hearing: “Go through the city after him and strike. Do not let your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/ezekiel/9/#v26009005" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Ezekiel 9:5</a>)</p><p>Once ‘the wicked’ witness the sign of the Son of Man, that our brothers and sisters simply <strong>keep on living </strong>beyond the 70 or 80 years becoming 90 and 100 with improved health. Incited with <a href="https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/intermittent-explosive-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20373921" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Incontrollable Rage,</a> Gog of Magog will come to destroy God’s Name People. “In that day confusion from Jehovah will be widespread among them; and each one will grab hold of the hand of his companion, and his hand will come against the hand of his companion.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/zechariah/14/#v38014013" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Zechariah 14:13</a>) So it is written, so it shall come to pass!</p><p>IF you Love Justice, and Hate Injustice, why not take a stand today by asking for a Free <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/free-bible-study/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Home Bible Study</a>. Go in Peace!</p>]]>
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        <title>The End of Wickedness is now at hand!</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1134/the-end-of-wickedness-is-now-at-hand</link>
        <pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2024 22:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1134@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
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<p>Imagine a time when people no longer treat one another like animals. I know, it’s hard to fathom. After all, religion herself is the cause for many wars, causing strife and hatred that permeates mankind, but not for much longer. These manifestations will soon reveal themselves all over the world and is also known as the revealing of the Son of Man. This phase is the third and final phase known as <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-glossary/presence/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the revelation phase</a> of the Presence of Christ.</p><p>One would think that all of mankind would welcome such a wonderful environment but the majority of earth’s inhabitants will actually reject and fight against this revelation tooth and nail, for mankind’s inhabitants as a whole have become wicked and godless. We read:</p><ul><li>But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-timothy/3/#v55003001-v55003005" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">2 Timothy 3:1-5</a>)</li></ul><p>After reading this scripture, you may have gained discernment that we could already have come into this period of critical times and you will have assumed correctly. This time period has been prophesied about in the Bible to give righteous ones a heads up. This time period is also called a time of distress, a time of anxiety, the last days, or the last days of wickedness. We entered this time period in <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-glossary/conclusion-system-of-things/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>1914</strong></a><strong> </strong>and we were warned about it from faithful men. One of those Biblical accounts is (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/12/#v27012001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 12:1</a>) which reads:</p><ul><li>During that time Michael will stand up, the Great Prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur <strong>a time of distress </strong>such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book.</li></ul><p>Notice this period is <strong>a time of distress</strong> which means this period does not go on and on with the no end to them. They in fact do come and will come to an end. But a work would need to be done first. A warning and a witness would need to be given out on a global basis. A heads up as you will. “And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024014" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:14</a>)</p><p>The end that comes about is not the end of the earth, but rather then end of wickedness. This system of things is on its way out! Jesus Christ calmly stated, “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. For just as the days of Noah were, so t<em>he Presence of the Son of man will be</em>.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024036-v40024037" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:36-37</a>)</p><p>If you appreciated this witness about the Good News about God’s Kingdom, then I ask you to fill out this <a href="https://hub.jw.org/request-visit/en/request" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">form</a> for a Free Bible Study. The scriptures state, “And <strong>during that time </strong>your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/12/#:~:text=And%20during%20that%20time%20your%20people%20will%20escape%2Cc%20everyone%20who%20is%20found%20written%20down%20in%20the%20book." rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 12:1</a>)</p><p>That time is Now, the book which is <em>also</em> known as the Book of Life is the Bible. We invite you and your family to come into our interior rooms until the denunciation passes as the days of wickedness come to their end. Get the Answers you seek to keep on living into Christ Millennial Reign.</p>]]>
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        <title>Are You Prepared to Lose Your Social Benefits?</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1131/are-you-prepared-to-lose-your-social-benefits</link>
        <pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2024 18:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
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<p>Many Countries offer Social Benefits to their citizens to give them a helping hand. These Benefits were meant to be given for a limited time. Those precious benefits will come to an abrupt end as <a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012681" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the Political Kings of the earth </a>turn against the World of False Religion to confiscate and plunder her Wealth.</p><ul><li>Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her <strong>into great tribulation</strong>, unless they repent of her deeds. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/2/#v66002022" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 2:22</a>)</li><li>And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/18/#v66018004" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 18:4</a>)</li><li>“And the kings of the earth who committed sexual immorality with her and lived with her in shameless luxury will weep and beat themselves in grief over her when they see the smoke from her burning. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/18/#v66018009" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 18:19</a>)</li></ul><p>The Wealth and goods obtained will be used to fund their armies and enforcers to do a house to house check to see if you and your family are bending your knees to <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/revelation-13-beast/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the Wild Beast</a> in worship. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/13/#v66013004" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 13:4</a>) By the time of the Enforcement comes, your assets will have already been confiscated to weaken your resistance and your family members could be used as bargaining chips for your cooperation whether you are willing or unwilling. "Whoever seeks to keep his life safe will lose it, but whoever loses it will preserve it alive." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/luke/17/#v42017033" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Luke 17:33</a>)</p><p>The Bible points to who makes up the members of <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/ws20150515/gog-of-magog/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Gog of Magog</a>, and if you are uninformed, what is coming your way will make you shutter. The shock that will overcome you will be such a traumatic experience you will look for death but not able to find it. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/9/#v66009006" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 9:6</a>) If you have faith, it will severely be tested and if you have no faith, you will be swept away not knowing which way to turn like a caged wild animal.</p><p>Your Social Benefits will cease and be used to fund the Enforcement. Maybe your Health Benefit expires, then all of a sudden your food benefit. Your complex in <strong>not knowing what is going on</strong> and then your shelter benefit is removed. Maybe you are forcibly removed from your house for not paying your taxes. You can't buy or sell anything, your funds no longer exist that were in your bank account, all access is closed and you're locked out. The Bank will not respond or answer any questions. The government issues a notice if you have any cash to exchange it with the Wild Beast for pennies on the dollar. Those who have cash but refuse to exchange their cash will lose it because there will be a certain date of expiration on all currency in any form, including precious metals such as gold and silver. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/11/#v27011043" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 11:43</a>) No matter how much you have saved or stored up for yourself, you will lose it. If you worship any god other than the Wild Beast, you and your family will be thrown into the lion's pit sort to speak.</p><ul><li>All the royal officials, prefects, satraps, high royal officers, and governors have consulted together to establish a royal decree and to enforce a ban, that for 30 days whoever makes a petition to any god or man except to you, O king, should be thrown into the lions’ pit. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/6/#v27006007" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 6:7</a>)</li></ul><p>It won't matter what religion you are or even if you're an <a href="https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Athiest</a>. Worship the Wild Beast or start losing your family and friends one by one while you stand there motionless in shock as the life drains away from your loved ones. AS the members of Gog and Magog are gathered by the demonic forces to get ready for the Enforcement, there will be one people left. Those who are holding onto their integrity to the One True God which enrages Satan to Act:</p><ul><li>You will say: “I will invade the land of unprotected settlements. I will come against those living in security, without disturbance, all of them living in settlements unprotected by walls, bars, or gates.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/ezekiel/38/#v26038011" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Ezekiel 38:11</a>)</li></ul><p>According to Bible Prophecy, it is <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODBibleTeachings/pub-jwbcov_201505_11_VIDEO" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Jehovah's Anointed One</a> that will Destroy Gog of Magog for coming after his Named People. The scriptures give us insight and a warning regarding to listening to instruction from the two spies whom gave specific directions to Rahab. "You should gather your father, your mother, your brothers, and all your father’s household with you into the house. Then if anyone goes out the doors of your house into the open, his blood will be on his own head, and we will be free from guilt. But if harm comes to anyone who remains with you in the house, his blood will be on our heads." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/joshua/2/#v6002018-v6002019" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Joshua 2:18-19</a>)</p><p>Let the scripture interpret scripture. Compare the Spies instruction to Rahab to the following:</p><ul><li>Go, my people, enter your inner rooms, And shut your doors behind you. Hide yourself for a brief moment Until the wrath has passed by. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/isaiah/26/#v23026020" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Isaiah 6:20</a>)</li></ul><p>Rahab and her family were saved while those on the outside were destroyed. And sanctuary is promised to those who enter our congregations of inner rooms meaning they have a good standing with Jehovah. But notice the scripture that we often use for the great tribulation.</p><ul><li>Jehovah said to him: “Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the city.” And to the others he said in my hearing: “Go through the city after him and strike. Do not let your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/ezekiel/9/#v26009004-v26009005" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Ezekiel 9:4-5</a>)</li></ul><p>The marking on the foreheads is the mark for survival. These ones keep on living through the great tribulation and enter into the new world as survivors known as <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-september-2019/great-crowd/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the great crowd</a>. But notice it happens at a time of 'sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done'. Also, notice <strong>where</strong> the slaughter of the wicked starts from?</p><ul><li>Old man, young man, virgin, little child, and women you should kill off completely. But<strong><em> do not go near to any man on whom there is the mark</em></strong><em>. </em><strong><em>You should start from my sanctuary.</em></strong><em> </em>So they started with the elders who were in front of the house. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/ezekiel/9/#v26009006" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Ezekiel 9:6</a>)</li></ul><p>Our current understanding of this scripture is that it occurs after the great tribulation begins which we believe is in the near future. So the term '<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/pure-worship/corruption/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">My Sanctuary</a>' may need some refining as to the meaning. It certainly has to do with 'Pure Worship' and if that is the case then the Congregation of God would be 'My Sanctuary'. The Temple of God would be Jesus Christ and the 144,000. Also, the action of removing or the cutting off 'started with the elders who were in front of the house', those who willingly forsook the offering of worship services, and praise which began in 1919. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/13/#v40013037-v40013042" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 13:37-42</a>)</p><ul><li>Immediately after <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-timothy/3/#v55003001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the tribulation of those days</a>, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024029" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:29</a>)</li><li>Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, <strong>so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things</strong>. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/13/#v40013040" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 13:40</a>)</li></ul><p>Allow the scripture to guide you. There are two meanings, one, is in the literal sense after the period of the Last Days has ended which is coming to a conclusion now or second, it is Spiritual and happening at the Beginning of the Last Days in 1914. After all, an Arabic rendering applies to a Ruler being removed from their office of Rulership is that <em>'</em><strong><em>his heaven has fallen</em></strong><em>'</em> which happened to Satan being hurled out of the Heavens in 1914 which the World rejects today. Not to mention that Charles Taze Russell gave us divine warning that <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/12/#v27012001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 12:1</a> would undergo fulfillment in 1914 as the End of the Gentile times.</p><p>Indication and scripture points to 1914 and the Beginning as to 'My Sanctuary' started with the elders who were in front of the house in 1919! The elders in this sense were Unfaithful Brothers who rejected the Presence of Christ and became apostates to turn others away from the organization of the Faithful and Discreet Slave. The Book of Matthew continues, "Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and <strong>all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief</strong>, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024030" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:30</a>)</p><p>Again two meanings, if literal it would occur after the Last Days have concluded. But if Spiritual, the prophecy began unfolding in 1919. Why? Aren't <strong>all the tribes of the earth beating themselves in grief </strong>today? Don't Jehovah's Witnesses grieve today because of the three horsemen? Not only does the World grieve the three horsemen, but do they not shun the Rider of the fourth horse whose <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/19/#v66019013" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Name is the Word of God</a>? (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/3/#v66003020" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 3:20</a>)</p><p>Wake Up O Sleeper! It's very interesting when scripture reveals itself how people become so stubborn. "The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood <strong>Before</strong> the coming of the great and awe-inspiring day of Jehovah." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/joel/2/#v29002031" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Joel 2:31</a>) Immediately after <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-timothy/3/#v55003001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the tribulation of those days</a>, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024029" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:29</a>) And there will occur <strong>a time of distress such as has not occurred since</strong> there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/12/#v27012001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 12:1</a>) 1914 or a future date? To claim we have not entered into a time of distress such as has not occurred since is to deny Prophecy. The Last Days of Satan's System of things do not go on forever, they do and will come to their End!</p><ul><li>“Go subduing<strong> in the midst of your enemies</strong>.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/psalms/110/#v19110001-v19110002" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Psalm 110:1- 2</a>) Those enemies are not instantly destroyed but are bundled up to die a permanent death like that of Adam and Eve. The fiery furnace is symbolic speech for everlasting death.</li></ul><p>For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, <strong>so the PRESENCE of the Son of man will Be. </strong>(<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024038-v40024039" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:38-39</a>) It's Spiritual.... otherwise you would have no need to prove yourself ready.</p><ul><li>On this account, you too prove yourselves ready, because <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/Reasoning-From-the-Scriptures/Return-of-Christ/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the Son of man is coming</a> at an hour that you do not think to be it. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024044" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:44</a>)</li><li>Three Phases of <a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1954447#:~:text=30%2C%20NW.-,PRESENCE%2C%20MANIFESTATION%2C%20REVELATION,would%20accomplish%20deliverance%20for%20them%20far%20beyond%20their%20own%20private%20expectations.,-FIXING%20THE%20RESPONSIBILITY" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Christ' Presence</a></li><li>“As for me and my household, we shall serve Jehovah.” (<a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/bc/r1/lp-e/201987362/0/0" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Joshua 24:14-15</a>)</li></ul><p>If you like Bible Based Videos please watch some @ <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/categories/VODBibleTeachings" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Bible Teachings</a></p>]]>
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        <title>What is so special about the decade of the 2030's?</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1132/what-is-so-special-about-the-decade-of-the-2030s</link>
        <pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2024 02:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1132@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
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<p>The Ruler of this World will have reached his <a href="https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pinnacle#:~:text=3,or%20achievement%20%3A" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Pinnacle</a> to have his Nations united in cause to spew mankind's <a href="https://sdgs.un.org/2030agenda" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Biggest Lie of Propaganda</a> that the world has ever heard.</p><p>Satan has offered these nations of  his kingdom/governments to Jesus Christ some 2,000 years ago, if only Jesus would simply do an act of worship towards him. </p><p>What was Jesus' response to Satan? Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/4/#v40004010" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matt 4:10</a>)</p><p>The Bible calls Jesus Christ the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God at (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/3/#v66003014" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 3:14</a>). Ever since <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/ebtv/world-changed-since-1914/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1914</a> the Bible informs mankind, "Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/12/#v66012012" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 12:12</a>) Satan has been gathering the nations and desperately trying to unite them ever since <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODMinistryImproveSkills/pub-jwbkm_201410_1_VIDEO" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1914</a>. Even though all the earthly nations are under Satan's Rule, they are still fragmented and at war with one another to gain possession of land, riches, wealth, and influence over other competing nations. <strong>Very soon these same nations will turn in a blink of an eye from fighting to declaring peace with one another.</strong> At that very moment one could apply these prophecies:</p><ul><li>Let the one who is unrighteous continue in unrighteousness, and let the filthy one continue in his filth; but let the righteous one continue in righteousness, and let the holy one continue in holiness. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/22/#v66022011" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 22:11</a>)</li><li> Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.  For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. <strong>Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.</strong> (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/1-thessalonians/5/#v52005001-v52005003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1 Thess 5:1-3</a>)</li><li>All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/25/#v40025032" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 25:32</a>)</li></ul><p>The following 'timed events' are fulfilments of various prophecies that reveal the Son of Man's Presence. But (many) will not see. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024037" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:37</a>)</p><ul><li>2030</li><li>2033</li><li>2034</li><li>2039</li></ul><p>When these 'timed events' come and go, then those who are remaining to be sifted and sorted will begin to say, "Where is this promised presence of his?" (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-peter/3/#v61003004" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">2 Peter 3:4</a>)  For the vision is yet for its appointed time, And it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it! For it will without fail come true. It will not be late! (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/habakkuk/2/#v35002003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Habakkuk 2:3</a>)</p><p>Would you like to learn more about the Bible and its precious truths it holds for you?  This is Your Personal Invitation as Jesus Christ is gathering the things in heaven and upon the earth.</p><h5><a href="https://www.jw.org/en/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">JW.org  </a></h5><p><br /></p>]]>
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        <title>Jah can be rendered from Hallelujah...</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1087/jah-can-be-rendered-from-hallelujah</link>
        <pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2022 22:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1087@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p><strong>The True God has One Name </strong>but<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/names-of-god/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"> <strong>that Name</strong> </a>is transliterated differently according to different languages.</p><div>
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<p><br /></p><p>“I am<strong> Jehovah</strong>. That is my name.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/isaiah/42/#v23042008" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Isaiah 42:8</a>)  English Translation.</p><p>"I <em>am</em> <strong>Yahweh</strong>; that <em>is</em> my name," (<a href="https://biblia.com/bible/leb/isaiah/42/8" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Isaiah 42:8</a>) Hebrew Translation to Englsih.</p><p>"Εγώ είμαι ο <strong>Ιεχωβά</strong>. Αυτό είναι το όνομά μου·" (<a href="https://www.jw.org/el/%CE%B2%CE%B9%CE%B2%CE%BB%CE%B9%CE%BF%CE%B8%CE%AE%CE%BA%CE%B7/%CE%B1%CE%B3%CE%AF%CE%B1-%CE%B3%CF%81%CE%B1%CF%86%CE%AE-online/nwt/%CE%B2%CE%B9%CE%B2%CE%BB%CE%AF%CE%B1/%CE%97%CF%83%CE%B1%CE%90%CE%B1%CF%82/42/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Isaiah 42:8</a>) Greek Translation.</p><p>"Я <strong>Иегова</strong>. Это моё имя. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/ru/%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B0/%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%8F/nwt/%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B6%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5/%D0%98%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%8F/42/#v23042008" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Isaiah 42:8</a>) Russian Translation.</p><p>"אֲנִי <strong>יְהֹוָה</strong>.‏ זֶהוּ שְׁמִי;‏" (<a href="https://www.jw.org/he/%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%99%D7%94/%D7%9E%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%90/nwt/%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D/%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%A2%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95/42/#v23042008" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Isaiah 42:8</a>) Hebrew Script.</p><p><br /></p><ul><li>Read the Bible in <a href="https://www.jw.org/he/%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%99%D7%94/%D7%9E%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%90/nwt/%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Hebrew</a>.  </li><li>JW.org in <a href="https://www.jw.org/he/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Hebrew</a> includes Videos!</li></ul>]]>
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        <title>JEHOVAH, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 1:3)</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1067/jehovah-the-god-and-father-of-our-lord-jesus-christ-1-peter-1-3</link>
        <pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2022 09:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1067@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
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<p>Praised be <strong>{</strong><a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/psalms/83/#v19083018" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>Jehovah</strong></a><strong>}</strong> the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/1-peter/1/#v60001003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1 Peter 1:3</a>)   Raising his eyes to heaven, Jesus spoke these things, and he said: “<strong>Father</strong>, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/john/17/#v43017001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 17:1</a>)  This means everlasting life, their coming to know <strong>YOU, the only true God,</strong> and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/john/17/#v43017003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 17:3</a>)  I have made <strong>your name manifest</strong> to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/john/17/#v43017006" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 17:6</a>)  I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that<strong> they may be one just as we are one. </strong>(<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/john/17/#v43017022" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 17:22</a>)  <strong>Righteous Father</strong>, the world has, indeed, not come to know you, but I know you, and <strong>these have come to know that You Sent Me.</strong>  <strong>I have made your name known to them</strong> and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/john/17/#v43017022" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 17:25-26</a>)</p><p>You must pray, then, this way: “Our Father in the heavens, <strong>let your name be sanctified</strong>.  Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/6/#v40006009" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 6:9-10</a>)  Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it;  whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/7/#v40007013" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 7:13-14</a>) Concerning that day or the hour <strong>nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father.</strong> (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/mark/13/#v41013032" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Mark 13:32</a>)  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/1-timothy/2/#v54002005" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1 Timothy 2:5</a>)  Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life.<strong> No one comes to the Father except through me</strong>.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/john/14/#v43014006" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 14:6</a>)  No man can come to me unless <strong>the Father, who sent me, draws him,</strong>and I will resurrect him on the last day. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/6/#v43006044" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 6:44</a>)</p><p>It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by Jehovah.’  <strong>Everyone who has listened to the Father and has learned</strong> comes to me. <strong> </strong> Not that any man has seen the Father, except the one who is from God; this one has seen the Father.<strong> </strong> Most truly I say to you, whoever believes has everlasting life. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/6/#v43006045" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 6:45-47</a>)</p><p>“That <em>men</em> may know that thou, whose name alone <em>is</em> <strong>JEHOVAH</strong>, <em>art </em>the most high over all the earth.” (<a href="https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Psalms-83-18/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Psalms 83:18</a>)</p><p><br /></p><p>To request a free home Bible Study click <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/free-bible-study/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">here</a>.</p>]]>
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        <title>Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #7</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1129/scriptures-that-trinitarians-dont-want-you-to-know-about-7</link>
        <pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2023 11:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1129@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>Since the trinity doctrine never refers to Jesus as Lord and Christ, trinitarians refuse that "God made him  both Lord and Christ" (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/acts/2/#v44002036" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Acts 2:36</a>)</p><p>Notice the meaning of the following names that all give witness to<strong> Jehovah </strong>as the one only true God? (John 17:3)</p><ul><li>Jesus renders Jehovah is Salvation</li><li>Yeshua renders Yahweh is Salvation</li><li>Joel renders Jehovah is God</li><li>Elijah renders My God is Jehovah</li></ul><p>SEE if you can find the Hebrew Tetragrammaton in these names: <strong>יהוה</strong></p><div>
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        <title>Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #6</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1126/scriptures-that-trinitarians-dont-want-you-to-know-about-6</link>
        <pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2023 16:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1126@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>After these <em>things</em> I heard <em>something</em> like the loud sound of a great crowd in heaven saying, “<strong>Hallelujah! </strong>Salvation and glory and power belong to our God," (Rev 19:1 LEB)</p><ul><li>Trinitarians falsely proclaim that God has No Name</li><li>Trinitarians falsely proclaim that God's Name cannot be found in the Greek or NT</li><li>Jesus' Name when translated means 'Jehovah is Our Righteousness'</li><li>John's Name when translated means 'Jehovah has been Gracious'</li><li>Matthew's Name when translated means "Gift of Jehovah'</li></ul><div>
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<p><br /></p><p>So they are many Names that Have Jehovah in them in the Greek! Jesus - John - Matthew - to list a few. </p><p><strong>The divine name appears in its abbreviated form in the </strong><a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-a/divine-name-christian-greek-scriptures/#:~:text=The%20divine%20name%20appears,means%20%E2%80%9CJehovah%20Is%20Salvation.%E2%80%9D" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>Christian Greek Scriptures</strong></a><strong>.</strong> At <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/19/#v66019001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6</a>, the divine name is embedded in the word “Hallelujah.” This comes from a Hebrew expression that literally means “Praise Jah.” “Jah” is a contraction of the name Jehovah. Many names used in the Christian Greek Scriptures were derived from the divine name. In fact, reference works explain that Jesus’ own name means “Jehovah Is Salvation.”</p>]]>
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        <title>Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #5</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1125/scriptures-that-trinitarians-dont-want-you-to-know-about-5</link>
        <pubDate>Wed, 08 Nov 2023 19:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1125@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>"At that time Jesus went to a mountain to pray. He spent the whole night in prayer to God." (<a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+6%3A12&amp;version=GW#:~:text=At%20that%20time%20Jesus%20went%20to%20a%20mountain%20to%20pray.%20He%20spent%20the%20whole%20night%20in%20prayer%20to%20God." rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Luke 6:12</a>)</p><ul><li>If Jesus is God as trinitarians claim, then which God is Jesus praying to all night long?</li><li>My God My God, why have you forsaken me?</li><li>Why do you call ME good? No one is good except one, God.</li></ul><h2></h2><h2>If you would like to learn about Jesus Christ then go to the World's Only Christian Site~~~~&gt;   JW.org</h2><p><br /></p>]]>
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        <title>The 144,000... when are they chosen and sealed?</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1113/the-144-000-when-are-they-chosen-and-sealed</link>
        <pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2023 11:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1113@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>The 144,000... when are they chosen and sealed?<br /></p><p><br /></p><div>
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<p>Brother Rando is a student of Prophecy and one of Jehovah's Witnesses. His interests are directed towards how the time of the end would come about. His Goal is to educate the public that Jehovah Witnesses have accepted the Sacrifice in Christ, whose Blood was shed for many as a ransom and exercise faith in 'Jesus Christ' for salvation. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/romans/10/#v45010009" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Romans 10:9</a>)</p><p>As a student of Prophecy, the passing of time often reveals the specific timing of such divine declarations. The Prophets that announced them do not always <strong>know the exact timing.  </strong>The Sealing of the 144,000 is now at hand. Another<em> timed event</em> that needs no guess work. Jesus replied to them: “Tear down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/2/#v43002019" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 2:19</a>) The Bible points out that Jesus was not talking about the temple made with hands, “But he was talking about <strong>the temple of his body</strong>.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/2/#v43002021" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 2:21</a>)  </p><p>Could the temple of his body be the 144,000 of his anointed followers also known as the <a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200021878" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Body of Christ</a>?  If the "the temple of Christ's Body" is not made with hands and Jesus was to sacrifice his Flesh, once for all time, then taking back<em> his fleshly body </em>would void his Father's Will.  (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/1-peter/3/#v60003018" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1 Peter 2:18</a>)  The scriptures do indicate some insight to what he meant,  "But he was talking about <strong>the temple of his body.</strong>" (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/2/#v43002021" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 2:21</a>)  Notice the scripture doesn't state his<em> fleshly body </em>for his fleshly body was to be sacrificed once and for all time<em>,</em> but rather<strong> 'the temple of his body.' </strong></p><p>Once the temple is raised up, then <strong>we could expect to enter into Christ’s Millennial Reign in the third day.  </strong>That time of (three physical days) has gone and passed almost two thousand years ago and Christ's Millennial Reign has not yet taken place. Today, we see that the World is engulfed in hatred and greed and <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no3-2017-may/who-are-the-four-horsemen/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the signs or manifestations</a> happening today are causing <strong>all of the tribes of the earth</strong> to beat themselves in lamentation or grief. People are looking for a way out. </p><p>The Apostle Peter referred to the temple by stating, "As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but chosen, precious to God, <strong>you yourselves as living stones are being built up into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood,</strong> in order to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/1-peter/2/#v60002004-v60002005" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1 Peter 2:4-5</a>) </p><p>The scripture by the Apostle Paul also gives us evidence that <strong><em>others </em></strong><em>are also included as God’s temple</em> that Jesus Christ himself would raise up. "Do you not know that <strong>you yourselves are God’s temple </strong>and that the spirit of God dwells in you? (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/1-corinthians/3/#v46003016" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1 Corinthians 3:16</a>)  Again, this did not happen in a 72 hour period but rather the process of raising up the foundation of the living stones began on Pentecost 33 CE.  Can the Body of Christ be the same as God’s temple? Yes. “Just as the body is one but has many members, and all the members of that body, although many, are one body, so too is the Christ.”​ (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/1-corinthians/12/#v46012012" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1 Cor 12:12</a>) </p><p>Jesus could have stated (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/2/#v43002019" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 2:19</a>) in several ways.</p><ul><li>in three days</li><li>on the third day</li><li>after two days</li></ul><p>The question of how long a day is listed in the scriptures for all to see. "However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that <strong>one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years</strong> and a thousand years as one day." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-peter/3/#v61003008" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">2 Peter 3:8</a>)  33CE + 2,000 yrs = 2033</p><p>So when can expect the 144,000 of God’s temple to be raised up? "He will revive us <strong>after two days. On the third day</strong> he will raise us up, And we will live before him." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/hosea/6/#v28006002" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Hosea 6:2</a>)  </p><p>The <strong>Body of Christ</strong> began to be collected on Pentecost 33 CE and will continue for two days of 1,000 years each before the third day begins <strong>2034</strong>. 33CE + 2,000 yrs = 2033 You won't find 2034 in the Bible, but you won't find 33 CE either.  Yet, 33 CE was a 'timed event' that comes from the <strong>Messiah being cut off in the middle of that 70th week </strong>and Pentecost followed 50 days later.  They looked with their eyes but they could not see. "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.”(Rev 7:3)</p><p>We also get 1914 from the book of Daniel which was another 'timed event' that occurred about the time allotted for Gentile Rule. In the Book of Daniel, Bible Prophecy pointed to a specific time period. Taking the time limit of 2,520 years and adding them to the time of destruction of the temple in Jerusalem 607 BCE, the timing lined up to the year <a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101988018?q=1914+Foreseen&amp;p=par" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1914 CE.</a> </p><p>The timing of the 144,000 being chosen, seems to line up with the conclusion of the Last Days in 2034.  When you add the time limit for the Last Days of Noah to the Last Days of this Age, what year keeps popping up?  1914 + 120 yrs =<a href="https://www.brorando.com/post/2034-and-its-significance" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"> 2034</a>  </p><p><strong>The Fulfillment of Prophecies are 'timed events'.  </strong>They have a Beginning and an End to them which covers a specific time period. Knowing such dates of a prophecy once revealed to those who are being ministered to, <em>does not necessarily beget salvation.</em> It doesn't give a person divine protection or extraordinary insight but it may make a person more accountable to Jehovah for not warning others.”  </p><p>One would need to continue walking by faith...  <strong>Better times lay ahead of us, but not for everyone.</strong> “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/7/#v66007003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 7:3</a>)</p><p>Notice that harm to the earth, sea, or trees are being withheld until<strong> after</strong> we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads. This is in reference to sealing of the 144,000 which are representatives of God’s temple, the Body of Christ, New Jerusalem, Christ’s Brothers, and even the Bride of Christ. All are one in the same. </p><p>Once the total number of the 144,000 are sealed,<strong> then a colossal number of other prophecies begin to become fulfilled.</strong> “I will make my holy name known among my people Israel, and I will not allow my holy name to be profaned any longer; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah, the Holy One in Israel.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/ezekiel/39/#v26039007" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Ezekiel 39:7</a>) </p><p>Since these things are undergoing spiritual fulfillment, the Bible warns us that "Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-peter/3/#v61003010" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">2 Peter 3:10</a>) </p><p>"For the vision is yet for its appointed time, And it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it! For it will without fail come true. It will not be late!" (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/habakkuk/2/#v35002003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Habakkuk </a>2:3)</p>]]>
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        <title>Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #4</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1121/scriptures-that-trinitarians-dont-want-you-to-know-about-4</link>
        <pubDate>Sat, 08 Jul 2023 16:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1121@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>“That <em>men</em> may know that thou, whose name alone <em>is</em> <strong>JEHOVAH</strong>, <em>art</em> the most high over all the earth.” (<a href="https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Psalms-83-18/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Psalm 83:18</a>)</p><p>Notice what is NOT in the scripture.</p><ul><li>Trinity not listed or three separate persons</li><li>Jesus is not listed</li><li>Most Trinitarian translator replace God/ Name and substituted LORD in all Capital letters. </li></ul><p>In many translations, even where the divine name has been substituted, it does often appear at Psalm 83:18. In this case, to do anything otherwise would render the verse nonsensical. A modern translation which remains faithful to the original Holy Scriptures by including God’s name throughout their translation is the <em>New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures</em> published by the Watchtower Bible &amp; Tract Society. This translation renders the Tetragrammaton as Jehovah over 6,800 times in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament), and over 230 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament). Commenting on this translation, the respected biblical scholar Jason David BeDuhn in his book <em>Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament</em> (2003) writes:- ‘<strong>The <em>New World Translation</em> is the only accurate translation of the nine we are comparing, since all of the other translations replace the personal name of God, in over six thousand passages, with the euphemistic title ‘Lord’ given by many translators in capitals, as LORD</strong>’."</p><p><br /></p><p>From the article entitled, "<a href="https://www.wivenhoehistory.org.uk/content/topics/places-buildings/churches-in-wivenhoe/st-marys-church/divine-name-display-st-marys-church-wivenhoe#commentsform" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">The Divine Name on display in St Mary's Church, Wivenhoe</a>"</p>]]>
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        <title>The trinity and it’s false theology.</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1035/the-trinity-and-it-s-false-theology</link>
        <pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2021 21:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1035@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>The trinity and it’s false theology.<br /></p><p> </p><p>You may be surprised to find out that the trinity doctrine <strong>does not accept Jesus Christ</strong>.  It omits Christ from its doctrine and promotes a false gospel that ‘<strong>three separate persons </strong>make up God’ which is not found in Any Bible.  Trinitarians profess that<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/1/#v43001001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"> John 1:1</a> explains their theology of ‘three separate persons ’.  <strong>It does not.</strong>  Therefore, it is not unusual to come across an apostate trinitarian who will <strong>deny and oppose the teachings of Jesus Christ.</strong></p><p><br /></p><p>Trinitarians proclaim Jesus is co-equal to his God while Jesus himself proclaims "<strong>the Father is Greater than I am.</strong>" (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/14/#v43014028" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 14:28</a>)  When Jesus Christ stated that ‘<strong>God is a Spirit’</strong> in (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/4/#v43004024" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 4:24</a>) trinitarians proclaim that Christ under the inspiration of Holy Spirit somehow mis-spoken because their doctrine teaches that God is made up of three separate Persons <strong>which is never cited in any scripture. </strong> In <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/17/#v43017001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 17:1</a> Jesus addresses his Father in prayer, he said: “Father,… and in <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/17/#v43017003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 17:3</a>  he states, “This means everlasting life, <strong>their coming to know You,</strong> <strong>the only true God</strong>” Was Jesus addressing <a href="https://www.brorando.com/post/jehovah-the-god-and-father-of-our-lord-jesus-christ-1-peter-1-3" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">God the Father</a> or the trinity of three separate persons?</p><p><br /></p><p>Trinitarians proclaim Jesus was not addressing the trinity itself, but God the Father.  <strong>Wouldn’t that prove that the trinity to be a False God? </strong> “He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/2-thessalonians/2/#v53002004" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">2 Thessalonians 2:4</a>) </p><p><br /></p><p>As Jesus continue his teachings about God, he states, “God is a Spirit, and those worshipping Him must worship with spirit and truth.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/john/4/#v43004024" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 4:24</a>)  Notice those worshiping <strong>HIM is in singular?</strong>  Not ‘us’ ‘we’ they’ ‘them’ or even ME.  Since trinitarians admit that the trinity is not God itself, aren’t trinitarians worshipping ‘gods’?  None of them worship <strong>God the Father alone</strong> who Jesus claims to <strong>be the only true God</strong> in (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/john/17/#v43017003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 17:3</a>)  Jesus Christ continues, “Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the <strong>true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth</strong>, for indeed, <strong>the Father is looking for ones like these to worship HIM.</strong>” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/john/4/#v43004023" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 4:23</a>)</p><p><br /></p><p>According to Jesus, <strong>only the Father was to be worshipped,</strong> not a trinity of ‘gods’.  Jesus made his Father’s Name known to his disciples. “I have made <strong>Your Name Manifest</strong> to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/john/17/#v43017006" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 17:6</a>)  Jesus even went as far to teach his disciples to pray this way: <strong>“Our Father in the heavens, let Your Name be sanctified.” </strong></p><p><br /></p><p>If you take a closer look at the trinity doctrine, NONE of the Persons have a NAME.  <strong>It’s a Generic Formula borrowed from Pagan Worship. </strong>Trinitarians shout and yell that, Jesus is God.  But the <em>trinity itself</em>  <strong>simply doesn’t give witness about Jesus Christ</strong>. When asked to show the doctrine they often turn red and say that I must simply believe them.  Then I ask, since the trinity doesn’t state that Jesus is God, show one scripture that states that. They hee and haw in frustration and begin<strong> to taunt and curse</strong> not able to find a single verse. You won’t find <strong>God the Son or God the Holy Spirit in the Bible</strong> because it simply isn’t.  There is a HUGE difference from God the Son and the <strong>Son of God</strong>.  If Jesus is the son of God, then whose Son is he?  The trinity doesn’t have three sons does it?  </p><p><br /></p><p>Jesus is not the only person to give witness about his God and Father.  The Apostles would greet one another with a similar phrase.  “Praised be <strong>the God and Father</strong> of our Lord Jesus Christ,” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/1-peter/1/#v60001003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1 Peter 1:3</a>)   The trinity omits the Name of Christ and <strong>refuses to acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh.</strong>  Matter of fact, here is what the scriptures state about those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. “For <strong>many deceivers</strong> have gone out into the world, those <strong>not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh.</strong> This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/2-john/1/#v63001007" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">2 John 7</a>)  </p><p><br /></p><p>In Ancient times, <strong>the trinity was symbolized by three snakes,</strong> each snake would chase its own tail looking like <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-does-666-mean/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the number 666</a>.   “And it was permitted to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that <strong>the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast.” (</strong><a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/13/#v66013015" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>Rev 13:15</strong></a><strong>) </strong></p><p><strong> </strong></p><p><a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201102/Who-Is-Really-Behind-the-Occult/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">The trinity is the Biggest Occult ever</a>, with a Worldwide membership of <strong>2.8 Billion People and growing! </strong> Mankind who are both weak or strong, slave or king, such ones march in the streets to protest.  <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/2-thessalonians/2/#v53002004" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">They place themselves above others claiming they have rights that no one else can have. </a> They proclaim they even have the right to end life, should they carry a life inside them. <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/genesis/3/#v1003004-v1003005" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">They make themselves like God in know good and bad</a>, and others have to bend their knee to their superiority.  (Read <a href="https://www.bible.com/bible/111/2TI.3.1-5.niv#" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">2 Timothy 3:1-5</a>)</p><p><br /></p><p>“For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, <strong>there remains no more sacrifice for sins,” (</strong><a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/hebrews/10/#v58010026" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>Hebrews 10:26</strong></a><strong>)  </strong>Feel free to contact me if you wish to leave the occult of the trinity.  There is <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/online-lessons/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">HELP</a>.</p>]]>
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        <title>Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #1</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1102/scriptures-that-trinitarians-dont-want-you-to-know-about-1</link>
        <pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2022 00:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1102@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>Did Jesus Christ create himself or was he begotten by someone else who existed Before him??</p><ul><li>For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/3/#v43003016" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 3:16</a>)</li></ul>]]>
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        <title>Another Scripture that awaits to be seen in the light... (Isaiah 9:6)</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1099/another-scripture-that-awaits-to-be-seen-in-the-light-isaiah-9-6</link>
        <pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2022 13:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1099@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p><br /></p><div>
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<p>For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Angel of Great Counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. (Isaiah 9:6)  This scripture easily links to (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/proverbs/8/#v20008035-v20008036" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Proverbs 8:35-36</a>) &amp; (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/judges/13/#v7013018" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Judges 13:18</a>)</p><p>His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: upon the throne of David, and his kingdom, to establish it, and to support with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of Jehovah of hosts shall perform this. (Isaiah 9:7)</p><p>Another rendition from the period of the second century, we see "ὅτι παιδίον ἐγενήθη ἡμῖν, υἱὸς καὶ ἐδόθη ἡμῖν, οὗ ἡ ἀρχὴ ἐγεννήθη ἐπὶ τοῦ ὤμου αὐτοῦ, καὶ καλεῖται τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Μεγάλης βουλῆς <strong>ἄγγελoς</strong>, &lt; θαυμαστὸς σύμβουλος, Θεὸς ἰσχυρός, ἐξουσιαστής, ἄρχων εἰρήνης, πατὴρ τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος· &gt;*: ἐγὼ γὰρ ἄξω εἰρήνην ἐπὶ τοὺς ἄρχοντας, εἰρήνην καὶ ὑγίειαν" (<a href="https://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/septuagint/chapter.asp?book=43&amp;page=9#:~:text=%E1%BD%85%CF%84%CE%B9%20%CF%80%CE%B1%CE%B9%CE%B4%E1%BD%B7%CE%BF%CE%BD%20%E1%BC%90%CE%B3%CE%B5%CE%BD%E1%BD%B5%CE%B8%CE%B7%20%E1%BC%A1%CE%BC%E1%BF%96%CE%BD%2C%20%CF%85%E1%BC%B1%E1%BD%B8%CF%82%20%CE%BA%CE%B1%E1%BD%B6%20%E1%BC%90%CE%B4%E1%BD%B9%CE%B8%CE%B7%20%E1%BC%A1%CE%BC%E1%BF%96%CE%BD%2C%20%CE%BF%E1%BD%97%20%E1%BC%A1%20%E1%BC%80%CF%81%CF%87%E1%BD%B4%20%E1%BC%90%CE%B3%CE%B5%CE%BD%CE%BD%E1%BD%B5%CE%B8%CE%B7%20%E1%BC%90%CF%80%E1%BD%B6%20%CF%84%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6%20%E1%BD%A4%CE%BC%CE%BF%CF%85%20%CE%B1%E1%BD%90%CF%84%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6%2C%20%CE%BA%CE%B1%E1%BD%B6%20%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%B5%E1%BF%96%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%B9%20%CF%84%E1%BD%B8%20%E1%BD%84%CE%BD%CE%BF%CE%BC%CE%B1%20%CE%B1%E1%BD%90%CF%84%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6%20%CE%9C%CE%B5%CE%B3%E1%BD%B1%CE%BB%CE%B7%CF%82%20%CE%B2%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BB%E1%BF%86%CF%82%20%E1%BC%84%CE%B3%CE%B3%CE%B5%CE%BBo%CF%82%2C%20%3C%20%CE%B8%CE%B1%CF%85%CE%BC%CE%B1%CF%83%CF%84%E1%BD%B8%CF%82%20%CF%83%E1%BD%BB%CE%BC%CE%B2%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BB%CE%BF%CF%82%2C%20%CE%98%CE%B5%E1%BD%B8%CF%82%20%E1%BC%B0%CF%83%CF%87%CF%85%CF%81%E1%BD%B9%CF%82%2C%20%E1%BC%90%CE%BE%CE%BF%CF%85%CF%83%CE%B9%CE%B1%CF%83%CF%84%E1%BD%B5%CF%82%2C%20%E1%BC%84%CF%81%CF%87%CF%89%CE%BD%20%CE%B5%E1%BC%B0%CF%81%E1%BD%B5%CE%BD%CE%B7%CF%82%2C%20%CF%80%CE%B1%CF%84%E1%BD%B4%CF%81%20%CF%84%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6%20%CE%BC%E1%BD%B3%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82%20%CE%B1%E1%BC%B0%E1%BF%B6%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%82%CE%87%20%3E*%3A%20%E1%BC%90%CE%B3%E1%BD%BC%20%CE%B3%E1%BD%B0%CF%81%20%E1%BC%84%CE%BE%CF%89%20%CE%B5%E1%BC%B0%CF%81%E1%BD%B5%CE%BD%CE%B7%CE%BD%20%E1%BC%90%CF%80%E1%BD%B6%20%CF%84%CE%BF%E1%BD%BA%CF%82%20%E1%BC%84%CF%81%CF%87%CE%BF%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B1%CF%82%2C%20%CE%B5%E1%BC%B0%CF%81%E1%BD%B5%CE%BD%CE%B7%CE%BD%20%CE%BA%CE%B1%E1%BD%B6%20%E1%BD%91%CE%B3%E1%BD%B7%CE%B5%CE%B9%CE%B1%CE%BD%20%CE%B1%E1%BD%90%CF%84%E1%BF%B7" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Isaiah 9:6</a>)  Some translators remove Angel and inserted Messenger to hide the identity of the person being sent in Isaiah 9:6  ἄγγελoς - ángelos - angel - <a href="https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&amp;tl=en&amp;text=%E1%BC%84%CE%B3%CE%B3%CE%B5%CE%BBo%CF%82&amp;op=translate" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">See translation</a>.</p><p>When translated reads, "for unto us a child was born, a son, and was given unto us, to whom the head was born upon his shoulder, and his name is called Angel of great counsel, &lt; wonderful counsellor, mighty God, ruler, prince of peace, father of the ages to come; &gt;*: for I Peace be upon the princes, peace and health"</p><p>Notice &lt; wonderful counsellor, mighty God, ruler, prince of peace, father of the ages to come; &gt;* seems to be an addition because without it, the scripture seems to carry on the one thought:</p><ul><li>"for unto us a child was born, a son, and was given unto us, to whom the head was born upon his shoulder, and his name is called Angel of great counsel,  for I Peace be upon the princes, peace and health" and as you can SEE the real scripture begins to emerge as:</li><li>For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Angel of Great Counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. (Isaiah 9:6)</li></ul><p>Therefore, there is with strong evidence that (Isaiah 9:6) was tampered with. Notice this current translation? Others have translated the scripture with brackets showing that [angel] is the messenger to be sent, but how was this to come about?</p><p>“Because a child was born to us, a son also given to us, whose sovereignty was upon his shoulder, and he is named messenger [or angel] of great counsel, for I will bring peace upon the rulers, peace and health to him,” </p><p>Jesus knowing and having read the Greek Septuagint multiple times in the synagogue asks a large crowd in the temple, “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is David’s son? By the holy spirit, David himself said, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet.”’ David himself calls him Lord, so how can it be that he is his son?” And the large crowd was listening to him with pleasure. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/12/#v41012035-v41012037" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Mark 12:35-37</a>)</p><p>With that, not a single person was willing to answer him. Not a member of the Sanhedrin, not a single Pharisee, nor a single Scribe whom may have helped scribed part of the Greek Septuagint that they were using in the Synagogue.  Jesus then warns the large crowd in front of them. "Beware of the scribes who want to walk around in robes and want greetings in the marketplaces and front seats in the synagogues and the most prominent places at evening meals." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/mark/12/#v41012038-v41012040" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Mark 12:38-40</a>)</p><p>Since <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20130615/disobedient-angels/#:~:text=In%20the%20Hebrew%20Scriptures%2C%20the%20expressions%20%E2%80%9Cthe%20sons%20of%20the%20true%20God%E2%80%9D%20and%20%E2%80%9Cthe%20sons%20of%20God%E2%80%9D%20occur%20at%20Genesis%206%3A2%2C%C2%A04%3B%20Job%201%3A6%3B%202%3A1%3B%2038%3A7%3B%20and%20Psalm%2089%3A6.%20What%20do%20those%20texts%20indicate%20about%20these%20%E2%80%9Csons%20of%20God%E2%80%9D%3F" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">angels are called 'sons' of the true God</a> in (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/genesis/6/#v1006002" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Genesis 6:2</a>) it would not take much effort to learn that a child was born to us, a son also given to us by human birth from Isaiah 6:9.  But the same ones who already knew this kept silent, these same ones later exclaimed to Pilate, "We have a law, and according to the law he ought to die, <strong>because he made himself God’s son.</strong>” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/19/#v43019007" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 19:7</a>)</p><ul><li>do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because <strong>I</strong> said, ‘<strong>I am God’s Son</strong>’? (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/10/#v43010036" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John10:36</a>)</li><li>At this they all said: “Are you, therefore, the <strong>Son</strong> of <strong>God</strong>?” He said to them: “You yourselves are saying that <strong>I am</strong>.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/luke/22/#v42022070" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Luke 22:70</a>)</li><li>He has put his trust in <strong>God</strong>; let Him now rescue him if He wants him, for he said, ‘<strong>I am God’s Son</strong>.’” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/27/#v40027043" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 27:43</a>)</li><li>“For there stood by me this night <strong>the angel of God</strong>, whose I am, and whom I serve,” (<a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/bi10/44/27#s=23&amp;study=discover:~:text=For%20there%20stood%20by%20me%20this%20night%20the%20angel%20of%20God%2C%20whose%20I%20am%2C%20and%20whom%20I%20serve%2C" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Act 27:23</a>) </li><li>And though my physical condition was a trial for you, you did not treat me with contempt or disgust; but you received me <strong>like an angel of God, like Christ Jesus</strong>. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/galatians/4/#v48004014" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Galatians 4:14</a>)</li></ul><p>There is much to research, but it would be repetitive.  Look at the two scriptures:</p><ul><li>For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Angel of Great Counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. Isaiah 9:6 (LXX)</li><li>For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6 (KJV) </li></ul><p>After reviewing both scriptures, one can easily assert how the KJV came about in removing <strong>the Angel of Great Counsel</strong> and then deleting for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him and replacing it with Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.  It's a substitution trying to appease the scripture that was removed, <strong>for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.  </strong>Three "the"s were added to the text at a latter time by KJV translators. Looking at the Hebrew text itself, you will not find them listed because they don't exist.  <a href="https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/9-6.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/9-6.htm</a>  Matter of fact the KJV translators didn't mind adding the letter (a) to a child or a son when there was no (a) in the Hebrew language.  (<em>ie....See, I have made thee (a god) to Pharaoh:</em> <a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/bi10/2/7#study=discover:~:text=See%2C%20I%20have%20made%20thee%20a%20god%20to%20Pharaoh" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Exodus 7:1 KJV</a>)</p><p>If you look at Daniel 12:1... it states <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/archangel-michael/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the Great Prince</a> which would be in conflict with the titles given at Isaiah 9:6... But the real scripture says, "<em>I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him</em>" would be accurate because of the following scripture fits. "Look! A king will reign for righteousness, And princes will rule for justice. And each one will be like a hiding place from the wind, A place of concealment from the rainstorm, Like streams of water in a waterless land, Like the shadow of a massive crag in a parched land." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/isaiah/32/#v23032001-v23032002" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Isaiah 32:1-2</a>)</p><p>Now if you noticed, Great Prince is set up by the definite article "<strong>the</strong>" which provides  emphasis. But in Isaiah 9:6, there is one definite article in referring to <strong>the government </strong>which would be God's Kingdom.  Isaiah 9:6 contains the indefinite article "a" for "<strong>a child"</strong> and "<strong>a son</strong>".   If the truth be told, <em>really </em>the prophecy at Isaiah and the Old Testament in it's entirety is referring to Michael the Archangel.  Archangel means Chief Messenger. </p><ul><li>Michael is the one given the name (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/philippians/2/#v50002009-v50002011" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Philippians 2:9-11</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/hebrews/1/#v58001004" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Hebrews 1:4</a>,<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/hebrews/1/#v58001004" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"> Acts 4:12</a>)  </li><li>Michael is the beginning of creation (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/1/#v43001001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 1:1</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/colossians/1/#v51001015" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Col 1:15</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/3/#v66003014" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 3:14</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/22/#v66022016" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 22:16</a>)</li><li>Michael and his angels fight against Satan (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/10/#v27010013" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 10:13</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/10/#v27010021" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 10:21</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/12/#v27012001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 12:1</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/jude/1/#v65001009" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Jude 1:9</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/zechariah/3/#v38003002" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Zechariah 3:2</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/joshua/5/#v6005014" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Joshua 5:14</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/exodus/23/#v2023020-v2023021" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Exodus 23:20-21</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/18/#v66018001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 18:1</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/12/#v66012007-v66012009" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 12:7-9</a>)</li><li>Michael is the one who abysses Satan (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/20/#v66020001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 20:1</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/9/#v66009011" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 9:11</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/luke/8/#v42008031" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Luke 8:31</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/1-corinthians/10/#v46010010" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1 Cor 10:10</a>)</li><li>Not only is Michael named <strong>the Angel of Great Counsel</strong> but also called by the name <strong>The Word of God.</strong> (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/19/#v66019011-v66019013" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 19:11-13</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/1/#v66001013-v66001015" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 1:13-15</a>,)</li><li>Michael speaks in behalf of his Father as his personal messenger [angel] (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/exodus/3/#v2003002" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Exodus 3:2</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/acts/7/#v44007030" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Acts 7:30</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/isaiah/49/#v23049002" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Isaiah 49:2</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/1/#v66001014-v66001016" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 1:14-16</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/17/#v40017002" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 17:2</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/acts/9/#v44009003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Act 9:3</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/acts/26/#v44026013" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Acts 16:13</a>, <a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/bi10/44/27#s=23&amp;study=discover:~:text=For%20there%20stood%20by%20me%20this%20night%20the%20angel%20of%20God%2C%20whose%20I%20am%2C%20and%20whom%20I%20serve%2C" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Acts 27:23</a>)</li></ul><p><br /></p><p>However, there is more information that gives evidence to the rendering of (Isaiah 9:6) even within Christendom sites.  I found the following a very interesting read in regards to my research @ <a href="http://www.ccg.org/weblibs/study-papers/p224.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">http://www.ccg.org/weblibs/study-papers/p224.html</a></p><p>Quote:</p><p>" <strong>Christian Churches of God</strong></p><p><strong>PO Box 369,  WODEN  ACT 2606,  AUSTRALIA</strong></p><p>Email: secretary@ccg.org</p><p><strong>(Copyright © 1997, 2019  Wade Cox)</strong></p><p><br /></p><p>This paper may be freely copied and distributed provided it is copied in total with no alterations or deletions. The publisher’s name and address and the copyright notice must be included.  No charge may be levied on recipients of distributed copies.  Brief quotations may be embodied in critical articles and reviews without breaching copyright. This paper is available from the World Wide Web page: <a href="http://www.logon.org" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">http://www.logon.org</a> and <a href="http://www.ccg.org" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">http://www.ccg.org</a></p><p><br /></p><p><strong>Isaiah 9:6</strong></p><p>Isaiah 9:6 is used by Trinitarians to justify their theology. Argument is advanced that, by the name given in Isaiah 9:6, the attributes and, thereby, co-equality and co-eternality were conferred in the son as being the same God in the case of Trinitarians and Binitarians; or an independent co-eternal God who had co-equality conferred upon him when he agreed to become the son of the other, in the case of the Ditheists. However, it was not understood in that light by ancient Israel.</p><p>The Septuagint (LXX) renders Isaiah 9:6 as reading <em>the Angel of Great Counsel</em>. Brenton’s translation is:</p><p>For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.</p><p>Verse 7 continues:</p><p>His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom, to establish it and support it with judgment and with righteousness from henceforth and forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.</p><p>We can see there is no trace of this later theology or assertion in the LXX. Here, he is the <em>Aggelos, </em>the <em>Angel</em> or <em>Messenger of Great Counsel</em>.</p><p>The term <em>mighty god</em> in Isaiah 9:6 is derived from the words <em>mighty el</em> and this can apply to any mighty one, even a human.</p><p>The same views emerge when we examine the concepts from the New Testament. The term <em>everlasting father</em> refers to the <em>fatherhood </em>of Messiah of which Paul says there are many in heaven and on earth and the reason why we bow to the Father for whom they are named.</p><p>Ephesians 3:14-15 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, (KJV)</p><p>Ephesians 3:14-15 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, 15from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, (RSV)</p><p>The actual text is <em>of whom every fatherhood</em> (<em>patria</em>) <em>in [the] heavens and on earth is named</em> (cf. Marshall’s Interlinear text).</p><p>The Peshitta (Lamsa’s translation) has:</p><p>For whom all fatherhood in heaven and on earth is named.</p><p>Thus, the concept of Isaiah 9:6 is the allocation by delegation of the rulership function expressed in terms of fatherhood.</p><p><em>Everlasting father</em> is held by Green to be a combination of Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary 1 and 5702. SHD 1 is <em>father</em> as <em>AB </em>but when we examine the text here we see the word is <em>ABY</em> (SHD 21) meaning <em>fatherly</em>. SHD 5702 is <em>'AGN</em> <em>'agan</em> meaning <em>to stay</em> from the concept of <em>debar (as from marriage)</em>. However, the consonants are <em>'AD</em> (SHD 5704 <em>'ad</em>) meaning <em>to stay for a long time</em>. Thus, the term here denotes the continuation of fatherly responsibility and not the fatherhood of procreation which is reserved to God the Father as we see from Christ's own comments in the New Testament regarding us not calling any man <em>father</em> as we have only one Father and He is in heaven.</p><p>The Soncino text renders Isaiah 9:5[6] as:</p><p>For a child is born unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; And his name is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom.</p><p>This is more or less consistent with the above. The words are a name which denotes the relationship of the person given the name with the being associated with it. The Soncino holds the words to mean:</p><p>Wonderful in counsel is God the mighty, the Everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace. The child will bear these significant names in order to recall to the people the message which they embody (Arbarbanel) (Soncino <em>Isaiah</em> fn. to 9:5[6]).</p><p>Even here, where the name is read in reference to another entity, it is not inferred, and cannot be inferred, that the child is possessed of these attributes. Rather he, Messiah as the child, is understood to act for the being who does possess these attributes.</p><p>The Peshitta carries the same name concept that we see from the Soncino.</p><p>The LXX uses the concepts in like manner but renders the Greek text as a follow on of the power given to the child by the Lord of Hosts (<em>Kuriou Sabbaoth</em>).</p><p>Similar in concept to the LXX, The Concordant Version of the Old Testament, by the Concordant Publishing Concern, also translates Isaiah 9:6-7 as:</p><p>"6) For a Boy, He is born to us; A Son, He is given to us, And the chieftainship shall come to be on His shoulder, And one shall call His name Marvelous; Counsel to the master shall He bring, Unto the chief, well-being.</p><p>7) To the increase of the chieftainship And to the well-being there will be no end; On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it  and to brace it with right judgment and with justice, Henceforth and in the future eon, The zeal of Yahweh of hosts, it shall achieve this."</p><p>In view of the ancient texts, Isaiah 9:6 cannot be used to construe any equality with the Father as Trinitarians and Binitarians/Ditheists seek to assert. It was never understood that way in ancient Israel or Judah nor by the Church of God of past centuries nor by modern Judaism." </p><p>End of Quote.</p>]]>
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        <title>What is worship? Is It required of all Christians?</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1111/what-is-worship-is-it-required-of-all-christians</link>
        <pubDate>Sun, 29 Jan 2023 04:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>C Mc</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1111@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<div><div><p>"Oh, come, let us sing to the Lord! Let us shout joyfully to the Rock of our salvation. Let us come before His presence with thanksgiving; let us shout joyfully to Him with psalms. For the Lord is the great God and the great King above all gods. In His hand are the deep places of the earth; the heights of the hills are His also. The sea is His, for He made it, and His hands formed the dry land. Oh, come, let us worship and bow down; let us kneel before the Lord our Maker. For He is our God, and we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand. Today, if you will hear His voice: "Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion, and as in the day of trial in the wilderness" (<strong>Psalm 95:1-8</strong>).</p></div></div><p>Not only should one know what the text says, but above all, what does it means for the average person in the Twenty-first Century? <strong>CM</strong></p>]]>
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        <title>Curses in the Bible</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1094/curses-in-the-bible</link>
        <pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2022 19:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>C Mc</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1094@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>What is a curse?</p><p>Who are the cursers?</p><p>Does God curse people? If so, who and for what causes? Is it temporary or permanent?</p><p>What nation or people have been cursed in the Bible?</p><p>Please, share your thoughts in light of the biblical texts (OT/NT). <strong>CM</strong></p>]]>
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        <title>What's  the truth of 1 John 2? Are you of Christ?</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/762/whats-the-truth-of-1-john-2-are-you-of-christ</link>
        <pubDate>Mon, 13 Jan 2020 17:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>C Mc</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">762@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p><strong>What is your understand of 1 John 2. Can we read out of the passage for a change? Let's get down to business of reading and understanding 1 John 2.  Many eyes may be opened for all to see themselves. Please share honestly. CM</strong></p>]]>
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        <title>Imagine if John 1:1 was rendered correctly...</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1100/imagine-if-john-1-1-was-rendered-correctly</link>
        <pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2022 00:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1100@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
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<p>There were times when Jesus answered his enemies and they left him without a response because they recognized his answer was 'the truth'.  Who could argue against him?   Those who recognized his teachings as truth had a choice to make.  Do I humble myself and become a follower of Jesus Christ or do I choose to become an enemy of Christ and scatter his followers? Many are the latter!</p><p>Imagine if John 1:1 was rendered correctly... and the Public got to see that there is only one Bible in the World that read, "<strong>In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was the Son of God.</strong>"  Who could argue against Jesus being the Son of God? Imagine the lives that could be saved. </p><p>The argument that Jesus is God or a god would no longer be the center of controversy.  Even trinitarians who deny Jesus' divinity as the Christ could not argue against Jesus being the Son of God.  Sometimes, when it comes to saving lives, a person needs to hear the ring of truth. That truth is <strong>and the Word of God was the Son of God.</strong>  The one chosen by God and sent to rescue humankind.  </p><p>Notice Jesus response to his enemies:</p><ul><li>do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because <strong>I</strong> said, ‘<strong>I am God’s Son</strong>’? (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/10/#v43010036" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 10:36</a>)</li></ul><p>The scriptures are clear that Elohim can be rendered God or (gods) in referring to angels. Angels are spirit creatures that are sons of the true God. <em>ʼ</em><a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001729#:~:text=Hebrew%20Terms.%20Among,plural" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><em>Elo·himʹ</em></a> is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.</p><p>In the Book of John, he uses two Greek terms to differentiate the difference between Almighty God and his Son.  <em>Theon is used to refer to Almighty God as </em><strong><em>the God </em></strong><em>and theos when referring to his Son as </em><strong><em>a god</em></strong><em>.</em></p><ul><li><em>In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with </em><strong><em>the God </em></strong><em>(theon) and the Word was </em><strong><em>a god</em></strong><em> (theos).</em></li><li><em>No man has seen </em><strong><em>the God</em></strong><em> (theon) at any time; the </em><strong><em>only-begotten</em></strong><em> </em><strong><em>god</em></strong><em> (theos) who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.</em></li><li><em>This means everlasting life, their coming to know You, </em><strong><em>the only true God</em></strong><em> (theon), and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.</em></li><li><em>Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and Your Father and to </em><strong><em>My God</em></strong><em> (theon) and </em><strong><em>Your God</em></strong><em> (theon).’”</em></li><li><em>Jesus is never called (theon) which refers to Almighty God. </em></li></ul><p>With that being said, many will reject these facts. Imagine someday opening your Bible and for the first time, reading the following scriptures:</p><ul><li>In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was the Son of God.</li><li>Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations in my name,</li><li>For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Angel of Great Counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. </li></ul><p>Wouldn't these<em> </em><a href="https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/experiences/sharing-truth/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><em>Bible truths</em></a><em> </em>bring the many to Salvation? </p><ul><li>"Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-timothy/2/#v55002015" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">2 Timothy 2:15</a>)</li><li>"Therefore, if someone knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/james/4/#v59004017" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">James 4:17</a>)</li></ul>]]>
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        <title>A scripture that awaits to be seen in the light... (Matthew 28:19)</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1098/a-scripture-that-awaits-to-be-seen-in-the-light-matthew-28-19</link>
        <pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2022 22:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1098@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>A scripture that awaits to be seen in the light... (Matthew 28:19)<br /></p><p><br /></p><div>
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<p>“Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given <strong><em>ME  </em></strong>in heaven and on the earth. Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations <strong><em>in MY Name</em></strong><em>,</em> teaching them to observe all the things<strong><em> I have</em></strong> commanded you. And look! <strong><em>I am</em></strong> with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Hebrew Matt 28:18-20)                                                       </p><p>"Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations <strong><em>in MY Name</em></strong><em>,</em> " (Hebrew Matthew 28:19)</p><p>The Historian Eusebius of Caesarea (263-339), had extensive access to the Library that kept a copy of the original text of Matthew.  Eusebius was also a Bishop whom quoted the Shem Tov Book of Matthew some seventeen times and all quotes of (Matthew 28:19) were quotes of one accord with no variations, (<strong><em>In My Name</em></strong>).</p><p>"In fact, Eusebius refers to this passage well over a dozen times in the same form as the above quotations. Now you must also be aware that this quotation by Eusebius is also earlier than our earliest manuscripts for this verse. Hence, it is quite possible that a corruption occurred around the time the Arian controversy broke out under Constantine's reign. The following quotation is particularly interesting:</p><p>For he did not enjoin them “to make disciples of all the nations” simply and without qualification, but with the essential addition “<strong>in his name</strong>”. </p><p>Scripture also says that <strong>by the authority of Jesus</strong> people would be told to turn to God and change the way they think and act so that their sins will be forgiven. <strong>This would be told to people from all nations</strong>, beginning in the city of Jerusalem. '...and <strong>on the basis of his name</strong>, repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preached in all the nations—starting out from Jerusalem.' (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/luke/24/#v42024047" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Luke 24:47</a>)</p><p>When the Apostles approached the public in Jerusalem to give witness about Jesus, the Sanhedrin had them brought in for questioning, and a Pharisee named Gamaliel rose in the Sanhedrin and reasoned with them to  be careful as to what you intend to do about these men.  Do not meddle with these men, but let them alone. For if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/acts/5/#v44005033-v44005039" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Acts 5:33-39</a>)</p><p>"At this they took his advice, and they summoned the apostles, flogged them, <strong>and ordered them to stop speaking on the basis of Jesus’ name</strong>, and let them go." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/acts/5/#v44005040" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Acts 5:40</a>)  Notice the Apostles weren't speaking in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit but in Jesus' Name.  </p><p>We also have this scripture which states, "For you were buried <strong>with him in his baptism</strong>, and by your relationship with him you were also raised up together through your faith in the powerful work of God, who raised him up from the dead." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/colossians/2/#v51002012" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Colossians 2:12</a>)</p><p>Eusebius goes on to relate that "<em>God bestowed on him the name above every name</em>, that <strong>in the name of Jesus</strong> every knee shall bow of things in heaven and on earth and under the earth." It was right therefore that he should emphasize the virtue of the power residing <strong>in his name</strong> <em>but hidden from the many</em>, and therefore say to his Apostles, "Go ye, and make disciples of all the nations <strong>in my name</strong>.’ (Demonstatio Evangelica, col. 240, p. 136)</p><ul><li><a href="https://www.apostolic.edu/the-baptismal-formula/#:~:text=Invoking%20the%20name,the%20Lord%20Jesus%3A%E2%80%9D" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Invoking the Name</a> </li><li><a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/acts/4/#v44004010-v44004012" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Acts 4:10-12</a> </li><li><a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/acts/4/#v44004027-v44004030" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Acts 4:27-30</a> </li></ul><p></p><p><br /></p><p>So where did the current liturgy or formula found at Matthew 28:19 come from?  </p><ul><li><strong>Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger</strong> makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19. “<em>The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of </em><strong><em>the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism.</em></strong><em> So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) </em><strong><em>came from the city of Rome</em></strong><em>.</em>” — Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) Introduction to Christianity: 1968 edition, pp. 82, 83.</li><li>A key tellable sign that this was <a href="https://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&amp;bk=47&amp;ch=28&amp;l=19-#x" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">100% Catholic liturgy</a> is that it read in the name "of the Father, Son, and Holy <strong>Ghost</strong>"  </li><li><a href="https://religionnews.com/2020/09/15/vatican-causes-chaos-by-invalidating-baptism-formula/#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20some,the%20second%20century.%E2%80%9D" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Early Christians</a> </li></ul><p><br /></p><p>However, between the years 315 and 325 CE the Hebrew Book of Matthew was shelved or in some manner hidden away or may have even been destroyed.  "<strong>The Greek version </strong>used by Eusebius poured more widely these verses, but in no way changing the sense of the Hebrew text, because when he quotes in his <strong>Ecclesiastical History </strong>part of Matthew 28:19, he writes: </p><p><br /></p><p><em>“</em>Πηγαίνετε, κάντε μαθητές από όλα τα έθνη στο <strong><em>όνομά μου</em></strong><em>”</em>  </p><p>“Go, make disciples of all nations<strong> <em>in my name</em>.</strong>”</p><p><br /></p><p>There is NOTHING in this scripture about baptizing in the Shem Tov Book of Matthew 28:19, but rather the making of disciples.  Today, what is found of the Aramaic texts of Matthew 28:19, did not contain any form of baptism nor was the making of disciples found, but contained the simplistic command "Go".  However, the verse “Go, make disciples of all nations<strong> <em>in my name</em></strong>” was quoted dozen of times by several historians of the Hebrew Book of Matthew before its' official deletion and alteration<a href="https://www.britannica.com/event/First-Council-of-Nicaea-325#:~:text=The%20council%20condemned%20Arius%20and%2C%20with%20reluctance%20on%20the%20part%20of%20some%2C%20incorporated%20the%20nonscriptural%20word%20homoousios%20(%E2%80%9Cof%20one%20substance%E2%80%9D)%20into%20a%20creed%20to%20signify%20the%20absolute%20equality%20of%20the%20Son%20with%20the%20Father" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"> </a>took place on 325 CE at the <a href="https://www.britannica.com/event/First-Council-of-Nicaea-325#:~:text=The%20council%20condemned%20Arius%20and%2C%20with%20reluctance%20on%20the%20part%20of%20some%2C%20incorporated%20the%20nonscriptural%20word%20homoousios%20(%E2%80%9Cof%20one%20substance%E2%80%9D)%20into%20a%20creed%20to%20signify%20the%20absolute%20equality%20of%20the%20Son%20with%20the%20Father" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Council of Nicaea</a>. </p><p>Since there are other scriptures that point to what Name was to be invoked in baptizing new converts, it is evident that the Catholic dogma was inserted early and in it's infancy by design to lead the masses away from Jesus Christ.  However, there is no need for dependence on outside sources when the Bible itself has been preserved.  Allowing scripture to interpret scripture when it comes to Baptizing is the Best Method. Here's a short list...</p><ul><li>Peter said to them: “Repent, and let each one of you be <strong>baptized in the name of Jesus Christ </strong>for forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the free gift of the holy spirit.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/acts/2/#v44002038" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Acts 2:38</a>)</li></ul><p><br /></p><ul><li>“With that he commanded them to be <strong>baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.</strong> Then they requested him to stay for some days.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/acts/10/#v44010048" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Acts 10:48</a>) </li></ul><p><br /></p><ul><li>“But when they believed Philip, who was declaring the good news of the Kingdom of God and of <strong>the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were getting baptized</strong>.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/acts/8/#v44008012" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Acts 8:12</a>)</li></ul><p><br /></p><ul><li>“Or <strong>do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus</strong> were baptized into his death?” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/romans/6/#v45006003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Romans 6:3</a>)</li></ul><p><br /></p><ul><li>“On hearing this,<strong> they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.</strong>” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/acts/19/#v44019005" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Acts 19:5</a>)</li></ul><p><br /></p><ul><li> <strong>The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263: </strong>“<em>The baptismal formula was changed </em><strong><em>from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy  Spirit </em></strong><em>by the Catholic Church in the second century.</em>”</li></ul><p><br /></p><ul><li>Catholic Catechism - “Into Christ. The Bible tells us that Christians were baptized into Christ (no. 6). They belong to Christ. The Acts of the Apostles (2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5) tells us of baptizing “in the name (person) of Jesus.” -- a better translation would be “into the name (person) of Jesus.” <strong>Only in the 4th Century did the formula "In the </strong></li><li><strong> name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” become customary.” </strong></li></ul><p><br /></p><p>              Source:  Kersten, J. C. (1973). Bible Catechism. NY., N.Y.: Catholic Book Publishing Co., p. 164</p><div data-embedjson="{&quot;url&quot;:&quot;https:\/\/christiandiscourse.net\/uploads\/629\/AAKWWZ2549T7.pdf&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;Mat_28_19_Baptismal_Formula_Changed.pdf&quot;,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;application\/pdf&quot;,&quot;size&quot;:547900,&quot;displaySize&quot;:&quot;large&quot;,&quot;float&quot;:&quot;none&quot;,&quot;mediaID&quot;:774,&quot;dateInserted&quot;:&quot;2022-09-16T22:01:01+00:00&quot;,&quot;insertUserID&quot;:775,&quot;foreignType&quot;:&quot;embed&quot;,&quot;foreignID&quot;:775,&quot;embedType&quot;:&quot;file&quot;}">
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<p><br /></p><p>Ps...  Brother Rando's Detailed Summary of Matthew 28:19</p><p><br /></p><p>My findings of Matthew 28:19 in its' current state is that it had been altered and falsified by what the Apostle Paul called the Superfine Apostles in 2 Corinthians and what the Apostle John called antichrists in 1 John in the latter part of the first century.  As the Apostles fell asleep in death by 100 CE, the Great Apostasy began.</p><p>Matthew 28:19 was one of the first or the first scripture that underwent a corruption by what is called today as the Apostolic Church.  Apostates of the first century whom left the teachings of the Apostles.  Also known as the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Fathers#:~:text=The%20Apostolic%20Fathers%2C%20also%20known%20as%20the%20Ante%2DNicene%20Fathers%2C%20were%20core%20Christian%20theologians%20among%20the%20Church%20Fathers%20who%20lived%20in%20the%201st%20and%202nd%20centuries%20AD%2C%20who%20are%20believed%20to%20have%20personally%20known%20some%20of%20the%20Twelve%20Apostles%2C%20or%20to%20have%20been%20significantly%20influenced%20by%20them.%5B1%5D" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Apostolic Fathers</a> of Christendom.  These false teachers of the first and second century either knew or claimed to have been influenced by the Twelve Apostles.  All the while, being oppossers of the Apostles with smooth words to carry off their prey.  It became the foundation of the Catholic Church.</p><p>The formula found at Matthew 28:19 sticks out of place using a triune formula for baptism.  The problem is that none of the Apostles ever taught such a thing.  "Whatever it is that you do in word or in deed, do everything in the <strong>name</strong> <strong>of the Lord</strong> <strong>Jesus</strong>, thanking God the Father through him." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/colossians/3/#v51003017" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Colossians 3:17</a>)</p><p>The wording is the same wording used in the <a href="https://www.biblebookprofiler.com/the-forgery-of-matthew-28-19.html#:~:text=Look%20at%20this%20line,them%20to%20the%20bible" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Didache Chapter Seven and Verse One</a>.  An apostate teaching that was introduced deceptively by the Superfine Apostles who left Christ.</p><p>The <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didache#:~:text=The%20Didache%20" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Didache</a> falsely claims to be the Lord's teaching through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations.  Not only did these Apostates reject the <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/acts/2/#v44002038" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ</a>, but you will also notice the denial of Baptism by complete water immersion.  Also, you will see they have become like the Pharisees adding rules and regulations that the one being baptized is to Fast for one or two days.  LOL.... at least they didn't say THREE days! </p><div>
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<p><br /></p><p>Reading just a few lines, one can see how heavy handed this Apostate Church was with man-made traditions.  Such big fat hypocrites!  Can't get baptized unless you Fast for one or two days. Need to use cold water, if not, then warm. Need to use running water, if not, then pour water on the head three times!  Jump on one leg and yell fly me to the moon! What a Cult!</p><p>Therefore the finding of the current Matthew 28:19 is just as Fake and Spurious as the Apostates who put it there.  The Didache is just one of many <a href="https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/apostolic-constitutions#:~:text=the%20Apostolic%20Constitutions%20were%20held%20generally%20in%20high%20esteem%20and%20served%20as%20the%20basis%20for%20much%20ecclesiastical%20legislation.%20They%20are%20today%20of%20the%20highest%20value%20as%20an%20historical%20document%2C%20revealing%20the%20moral%20and%20religious%20conditions%20and%20the%20liturgical%20observances%20of%20the%20third%20and%20fourth%20centuries" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Apostolic Constitutions</a> that served as the basis for twisting and altering the Bible. It shows the deceptive moral and religious conditions of the third and fourth centuries, not what the <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-teach/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Bible really teaches</a>.</p><p>This <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha#:~:text=Apocrypha%20was%20later%20applied%20to%20writings%20that%20were%20hidden%20not%20because%20of%20their%20divinity%20but%20because%20of%20their%20questionable%20value%20to%20the%20church.%20In%20general%20use%2C%20the%20word%20apocrypha%20has%20come%20to%20mean%20%22false%2C%20spurious%2C%20bad%2C%20or%20heretical%22" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Apocrypha satire</a> should be exposed and dismissed as "the angel flying in midheaven has <strong>everlasting good news</strong> to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/14/#v66014006" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 14:6</a>)</p><p>I look forward to the day to open up the New World Translation with the correct rending, "Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations <strong><em>in MY Name</em></strong><em>,</em>" (Matthew 28:19)</p>]]>
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        <title>The Hidden Treasure of John 1:1</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1046/the-hidden-treasure-of-john-1-1</link>
        <pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2021 09:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1046@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
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<p>The truth about John 1:1 has been long hidden from the masses. Why is learning this scripture vital to your spiritual health? Because words matter! In Greek there are two different words for God. Also, using a definite article emphasizes the subject spoken about. First instance is <em>ton theon</em> which means <strong><em>the God</em></strong> and the second instance is <em>theos</em> which means <strong><em>a god</em></strong>.</p><p>How does John 1:1 read with a literal translation?</p><p>“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with <strong><em>the God</em></strong>, and <strong><em>a god</em></strong> was the Word.”</p><p>Jesus is never referred to as the theon because Jesus was begotten and came into existence. Therefore, the Apostle John used the nominative title theos which means a god referring to the Word’s divinity and godlike qualities.</p><ul><li>1975 “and a god (or, <strong><em>of a divine kind</em></strong>) was the Word” – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany</li><li>1978: “and <strong><em>godlike sort</em></strong> was the Logos” – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin</li></ul><p><a href="https://www.brorando.com/post/the-hidden-treasure-of-john-1-1" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>Free eBook...</strong></a></p>]]>
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        <title>When Is a Baby, a Baby:  At Conception or at Birth?</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/824/when-is-a-baby-a-baby-at-conception-or-at-birth</link>
        <pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2020 02:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>C Mc</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">824@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>Let's settle it once and for all. We have been dancing around it for a while, here in CD. Is the answer to the above question biblical or a social-societal issue? Whose business is it anyway? </p><p>God knows many things men don't. Can the Jeremiah text be used for all undeveloped tissues with in a woman?   </p><div><div><p>"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”  <a href="https://ref.ly/logosres/nasb95?ref=BibleNASB95.Je1.5&amp;off=4&amp;ctx=e+to+me+saying%2c%0a+5+%E2%80%9C~Before+I+a%EF%BB%BFformed+yo" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><em>New American Standard Bible: 1995 update</em></a>. (1995). (Je 1:5). </p></div></div><p>What say ye? <strong>CM</strong></p>]]>
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        <title>Revelation 1:7 A scripture that remains hidden for the many...</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1097/revelation-1-7-a-scripture-that-remains-hidden-for-the-many</link>
        <pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2022 22:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1097@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>Revelation 1:7 A scripture that remains hidden for the many...<br /></p><p><br /></p><div>
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<p><br /></p><p>Do you long for the day to see Jesus Christ coming with the clouds?  Many religious, spiritual, and not so religious people yearn for this day. What about you? Don't all of us yearn for better times ahead? You would think Kings and Governments look forward to this day, so why are they silent? Why do the Worldly governments want to stomp down on your faith?</p><p>Jesus Christ is not only <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/hebrews/3/#v58003001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">High Priest</a> but he is also <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no2-2020-may-jun/who-is-king-of-gods-kingdom/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">King of God's Kingdom</a>.  Soon, very soon, religion and man-made governments will no longer be needed.  Today, you have the opportunity to have access to the one true God by means his only begotten son.  Jesus himself told his disciples, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/14/#v43014006" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 14:6</a>)</p><p>Matter of fact, most religions have shunned the Name of Jesus Christ's Father and removed it some 7,000 times from the scriptures.  Governments don't even dare say the Father's Name in public. Why?  </p><p>The name of Jesus gives us a clue of his Father's Name.  Jesus when translated means, "Jehovah is Salvation."  Not only does Jesus give witness and testimony to the name Jehovah, so do many other Names in the Bible, even some Books of the Bible.</p><ul><li>Joel [Jehovah Is God]</li><li>Jeremiah [Jehovah Exalts]</li><li>John [Jehovah Has Been Gracious]</li><li>Jehoshaphat [Jehovah Is Judge]</li><li>and many more...</li></ul><p>“That <em>men</em> may know that thou, whose name alone <em>is</em> <strong>JEHOVAH</strong>, <em>art</em> the most high over all the earth.”  (<a href="https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Psalms-83-18/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Psalms 83:18 King James Bible</a>)</p><p>Jesus stated to Nicodemus, a member of the Sanhedrin whom was a Pharisee, "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/3/#v43003016" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 3:16</a>)</p><ul><li>Whether we cite a scripture or a name that give witness to the Name of Jehovah, there is no way around it.  Jehovah is given credit and praise. </li><li>Some have even stopped using the Name JESUS because of it's meaning. </li><li>What next? Tear out Chapters of the Bible written by Jeremiah, Joel, or John?</li><li>Think about it, John wrote several Books. John, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, Revelation.</li><li>Are we not to believe John or Jesus because their names give praise to JEHOVAH?</li></ul><p>So.... let's look into this scripture a little bit deeper. "Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will SEE him, and those who pierced him; and All the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/1/#v66001007" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 1:7</a>) </p><p>Many are looking forward to this prophecy being fulfilled. However, if you are waiting for this fulfillment. It has already come. Yes, that right. We are living it right now.  Did you notice the part where it states "All the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him?"</p><ul><li>Aren't <strong>people of all nationalities experiencing grief</strong> in one form or another <strong>today?</strong></li><li>When did it begin? <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-glossary/conclusion-system-of-things/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">October 1st, 1914</a> </li><li>The grieving could not start afterwards when Jesus delivers salvation could it?</li><li>The coming with the clouds means that his appearance or advent is hidden</li><li>Yet the scripture states every eye will SEE him</li></ul><p>The Greek word used for SEE is ὁράω horaó.  It means I see, look upon, <strong>experience</strong>, <strong>perceive, discern, </strong>or beware.  According to HELPS Word-studies 3708 <em>horáō</em> – properly,<em> see</em>, often with <em>metaphorical</em> meaning: <strong>"to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).</strong></p><p>The cross reference is "Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and All the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will SEE the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024030" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:30</a>)  <em>horáō</em> – properly,<em> see</em>, often with <em>metaphorical</em> meaning: <strong>"to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).</strong></p><p>With these two verses  (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/1/#v66001007" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 1:7</a>) &amp; (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024030" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:30</a>) we learned that ALL the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief.  Something that would not occur at his coming which would be (<a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1954447#:~:text=The%20third%20word,recognize%20his%20presence" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the Revelation</a>) stage of his Presence. WHY?  Because the Great Crowd are spoken of in a favored state.</p><ul><li>After this I saw, and look! <strong>a great crowd</strong>, which no man was able to number, out of <strong>all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues</strong>, standing before the throne and before the Lamb (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/7/#v66007009" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 7:9</a>)</li><li>So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of<strong> the great tribulation</strong>, and they have washed </li><li>  their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/7/#v66007014" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 7:14</a>)</li></ul><p><br /></p><p>Another scripture that gives us more evidence about the time of trouble is "Immediately after <strong>the tribulation of those days</strong>, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/matthew/24/#v40024029" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Matthew 24:29</a>) In Aramaic sayings, it was said if a ruler lost his rulership, that <em>"His Heaven Has Fallen." </em></p><ul><li>And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven.  (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/12/#v66012007" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 12:7</a>)</li><li>Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/12/#v66012012" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 12:12</a>)</li><li>The <strong>tribulation of those days</strong> brought an end to the Gentile times and ushered in Christ's Presence. This time period is called <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-timothy/3/#v55003001-v55003005" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the Last Days</a>, hard to deal with.</li></ul><p><br /></p><p>Doesn't  (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/12/#v66012007" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 12:7</a>) &amp; (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/12/#v66012012" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 12:12</a>)  happen at the beginning of Christ's Presence to cause ALL the tribes of the earth to beat themselves in grief?</p><ul><li> Then he said to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.</li><li>There will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another food shortages and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and from heaven great signs.</li><li>Both scriptures are Progressive Prophecies that begin at his Presence and are brought to their end at the Revelation stage of Christ's Presence as we enter Christ Millennial Reign. </li></ul>]]>
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        <title>JWs' Battle of Armageddon: Truth, Bang, or A Bust?</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1056/jws-battle-of-armageddon-truth-bang-or-a-bust</link>
        <pubDate>Thu, 06 Jan 2022 15:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>C Mc</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1056@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<h5>The JWs have declared <strong>several dates</strong> for the<strong><em> "Battle of Armageddon"</em></strong>. From<strong> JW's Literature, falsehoods</strong>, miscalculations, and unfulfilled prophecy. See below what I am talking about -failed dates for the battle of Armageddon: </h5><p><br /></p><ol><li><strong>Zion’s Wt, 1/15/1892</strong>, pg 1355, reprint -- ...“<strong>battle” is definitely marked in Scripture as October, 1914.</strong> </li><li><strong>The Time is at Hand, 1908</strong>, pg 101 --- ...the “battle of the great day of God Almighty” (Rev.16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914, with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced. </li><li><strong>The Finished Mystery</strong>, <strong>1917</strong>, pg 398, 399, 485 <ol><li>-- the people who are the strength of Christendom shall be cut off in the brief but terribly eventful period beginning in 1918 A.D. A third part are “burned with fire in the mist of the city.” </li><li>.....<strong>After 1918</strong> the people supporting churchianity will cease to be its, supporters, be destroyed as adherents,</li><li>...Also <strong>in the year 1918</strong>, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions...</li></ol></li><li><strong>Millions now Living Will Never Die</strong>, 1920, pg. 89, 90 -- Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old...." </li><li><strong>Vindication 1</strong>, <strong>1931</strong>, pg 146, 338, 339 --  <ol><li>...<strong>years 1914,1918 </strong>and<strong> 1925</strong></li><li> ..... they also learned to quit fixing dates for the future and predicting what would come to pass on certain dates.... </li></ol></li><li><strong>Informant, May 1940</strong> -- The year 1940 is certain to be the most important year yet because Armageddon is very near.</li><li><strong>Wt, 9/15/1941,</strong> pg 288 -- ...in the remaining months before Armageddon. </li><li><strong>Wt, 5/1/1968,</strong> pg 273 -- Chart of dates 1975 end of 6th 1000-year day...2975 end of 7th 1000-year day.... </li><li><strong>Aw, 1/22/1969</strong>, pg 16 -- Other Bible prophecies clearly foretell God’s purpose to bring this wicked system to an end in a few years.</li><li><strong>Aw, 5/22/1969,</strong> pg 15 -- If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things.  .....all evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. ....as a young person you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone! </li><li><strong>Wt, 10/15/1969,</strong> pg 622, 623 -- ...seventh millennium from man’s creation by Jehovah God would begin in less than ten years. </li><li><strong>The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah,</strong> 1971, pg 216 -- Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day if Jehovah" will begin against modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom. </li><li><strong>Wt, 1/1/1989,</strong> pg 12 -- The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century. (This quote was later changed in the WT bound volume to: He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our day.) </li><li>In <strong>2010 the generation of 1914</strong> that would not pass away has changed to overlapping generations. </li></ol><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://www.christiandiscourse.net/profile/BroRando" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">@BroRando</a>, are you aware of this? How could you continue to believe and teach others religious chaff of a biblically pure prophecy? Are you concerned about your and the organization's credibility? <strong>CM</strong></p>]]>
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        <title>Time of trouble was foretold to the World since 1876 by Brother Russell...</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1096/time-of-trouble-was-foretold-to-the-world-since-1876-by-brother-russell</link>
        <pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2022 21:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1096@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<p>"As early as in the year<strong> </strong><a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1983366#:~:text=As%20early%20as%20in%20the%20year%201876%2C%20in%20an%20article%20that%20he%20submitted%20for%20publishing%20in%20The%20Bible%20Examiner%2C%20the%20president%20had%20pointed%20forward%20to%201914%20as%20the%20date%20for%20%E2%80%9Cthe%20times%20of%20the%20Gentiles%E2%80%9D%20to%20end%2C%20with%20serious%20consequences%20for%20the%20whole%20world%20of%20mankind" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>1876</strong></a>, in an article that he submitted for publishing in The Bible Examiner, the president had pointed forward to 1914 as the date for “the times of the Gentiles” to end, with serious consequences for the whole world of mankind."</p><p>Back in 1876, only a few people were listening. A good number left his Bible study group. However, has time was getting closer then more started to gain understanding. In the Bible Students Monthly, on January, 1914, Brother Russell wrote: "'The Earth Abideth Forever' Christ will not return to Earth as a Man - Present Year Believed to Mark Great Change of Dispensation, but World May not discern Immediate Difference."</p><p>"Our Lord, in describing <strong><em>His Second Presence</em></strong>, clearly indicated that it would be unnoticed by the world until the cataclysm of trouble should come. Thus He likened the earlier days of His presence to <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/genesis/6/#v1006003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">that period before the Flood</a>, when the world, unconscious of the impending catastrophe, continued to build, eat and drink as usual, and knew not. So, says the Master, it will be in the end of this Age. Eating, drinking, building, planting and marrying will proceed as usual; and the world will not know that they are in the PRESENCE of the Son of Man."</p><p>And we seen evidence of this even in 2022 on this very board. They reject and deny that the Last Days have begun. When we preach and let people know we are now at the end of this period, people scoff and ridicule us, majority of those being religious hypocrites! Denying the very Name of JEHOVAH or sat <a href="https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/idly" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">idly</a> by while apostates were slandering. </p><p>Notice he didn't write Second Coming, but rather 'Second Presence'? Brother Russell was speaking of Christ's PAROUSIA--PRESENCE. He continues, "The Bible nowhere tells that Jesus took the human nature to keep it forever, and to return with it to Heaven, where it would be completely out of order and out of place. The Bible teaches, on the contrary, that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:50); and that Jesus was made flesh merely 'that He, by the grace of God, should taste death for every man' (Heb 2:9) and that after doing this work He would "ascend up where He was before." (John 6:62) The great Day of Trouble, noted throughout the Scriptures as the Time of Trouble such as never was since there was a nation, will come upon them suddenly."</p><div>
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        <title>Armageddon comes in two phases...</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1093/armageddon-comes-in-two-phases</link>
        <pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2022 12:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1093@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
        <description><![CDATA[<h5><a href="https://www.brorando.com/post/armageddon-comes-in-two-phases" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>Armageddon comes in two phases...</strong></a></h5><p><br /></p><div>
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<p><br /></p><p>Most have not yet gained the understanding that Armageddon begins as a <strong>Spiritual Event and then Ends as a Literal One</strong>.  The Last Days are cut short in the sense that Gog of Magog's Attack on God's Named People are <strong>stifled and held in check</strong>,  and 'they will not cause any harm or any ruin in all my holy mountain'.  (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/isaiah/11/#v23011009" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Isaiah 11:9</a>)   This EVENT could very well last 1,000 years while Satan and his demons are put in a deathlike state of inactivity. <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/pure-worship/teaching-boxes/times-of-restoration-of-all-things/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">ARMAGEDDON</a> is the beginning of Christ’s Millennial Reign. The Great Crowd enters“ the times of restoration of all things” that expands to include <strong>physical blessings for faithful humans on earth.  </strong>These one's keep on living as they come out of <a href="https://www.brorando.com/post/the-last-days-that-began-in-1914-are-now-coming-to-their-end" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the Last Days</a> as Survivors.  The wicked continue getting sick, growing old, and continue dying off.  Their death is no longer a temporary death, but rather a permanent one called the second death of an everlasting destruction.  Like <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/jude/1/#v65001007" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Sodom and Gomorrah</a>  which was destroyed... those dying are destroyed forever never to return to Life. </p><p>One should note, that before the cry of "Peace and Security!" can happen, Jesus has already judged the living.  Therefore, this demonic cry is a '<em>timed event</em>'.  The time of <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/return-to-jehovah/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">REPENTANCE</a> for the living has ended.  "Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/1-thessalonians/5/#v52005003" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1 Thess 5:3</a>)   Satan will witness the destruction of Babylon the Great with Frantic Rage as<a href="https://www.brorando.com/post/the-great-tribulation-what-is-it" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"> the Great Tribulation</a> begins.  It's at that very moment Jesus will act.  "And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.  He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years."  </p><p>Then comes the removal of Satan's system of things which is symbolized by <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/2/#v27002044" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">crushing</a>, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/ezekiel/9/#v26009001-v26009002" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">smashing,</a> and <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-peter/3/#v61003010" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">fire</a> meaning that it is being destroyed by everlasting destruction, never to be rebuilt.  Even though many have claimed in the past that (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/2/#v27002044" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 2:44</a>) began in <a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1984280#:~:text=the%20beginning%20of%20the%20worst%20time%20of%20trouble%20the%20earth%20had%20yet%20known" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1914</a>.  It has not. This scripture actually points to the destruction of Satan's Earthly Kingdoms, the beginning of <em>the first phase</em> of Armageddon. </p><p>"And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. <em>He will crush your head,</em> and you will strike him in the heel.” (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/genesis/3/#v1003015" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Genesis 3:15</a>)  The crushing of Satan's head that the Glorified Jesus Christ does, is a deathlike blow of inactivity for the 1,000 years for Satan and his demons of being abyssed. </p><p>As for <em>the second phase</em> of Armageddon, it too is a<em> 'timed event'.  </em>Once Jesus and the 144,000 bring mankind including those resurrected to perfection as Adam and Eve had in the Garden of Eden prior to sinning. Perfect Mankind will have the Opportunity to prove their Loyalty to Jehovah in a Perfect State.  It is at this time, Jesus hands the Kingdom back to his God and Father before <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/pure-worship/teaching-boxes/mankind-faces-final-test/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the Final Test.</a> </p><ul><li>Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/1-corinthians/15/#v46015024" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">1 Cor 15:24</a>)</li><li>Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/20/#v66020007" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 20:7</a>)</li><li> and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to <em>gather them together for the war.</em> The number of these is as the sand of the sea. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/20/#v66020008" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 20:8</a>)</li></ul><p><em>The second Phase</em> of Armageddon will be literal for all to see and witness. But who is the one that will be destroying Satan, his demons and his supporters?  JEHOVAH.</p><ul><li>And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/20/#v66020009" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 20:9</a>)</li><li>And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet <em>already were</em>; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/20/#v66020010" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 20:10</a>)</li></ul><p><br /></p>]]>
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        <title>The Abyssment of Satan is coming...</title>
        <link>https://christiandiscourse.net/index.php?p=/discussion/1090/the-abyssment-of-satan-is-coming</link>
        <pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2022 21:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
        <category>Biblical Studies</category>
        <dc:creator>Brother Rando</dc:creator>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">1090@/index.php?p=/discussions</guid>
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<p>"During that time <strong>{</strong><a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/wp20100401/Is-Jesus-the-Archangel-Michael/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>Jesus Christ</strong></a><strong>}</strong> will stand up, <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/isaiah/9/#v23009006" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">the Great Prince</a> who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-timothy/3/#v55003001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>a time of distress</strong></a><strong> such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. </strong>And <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-glossary/conclusion-system-of-things/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">during that time</a> your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book. And <strong>many of </strong><a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/20/#v66020006" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up</strong></a>, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/daniel/12/#v27012001" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Daniel 12:1-2</a>)</p><p>So Michael is the angel that would be given a new name. That new name would have a significant meaning since prophecy states, "I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared.<strong> </strong> Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, because <strong>my name is in him.</strong>" (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/exodus/23/#v2023020-v2023021" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Exodus 23:20-21</a>)</p><p>Since Michael was created in the image of the invisible God,<strong> the firstborn of all creation, his name reflects that meaning</strong>. Michael when translated means<strong> 'Who is Godlike?' or 'Who Is Like God?</strong>' The scripture points this meaning out quite nicely, "You <strong>made</strong> him a little <strong>lower than godlike ones</strong>, And you crowned him with glory and splendor." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/psalms/8/#v19008005" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Psalm 8:5</a>) Immanuel when translated means <strong>"With us is God?'</strong></p><p>The Scriptures also point out that Michael was sent and given <strong>the name </strong>to the glory of God the Father. "Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/philippians/2/#v50002005" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Philippians 2:5-7</a>) Yes, this very angel would be given <strong>the name </strong>to the glory of God the Father and have his Father's Name in him. “I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to <strong>you</strong>. <strong>Holy Father,</strong> watch over them on account of your own <strong>name</strong>, which <strong>you</strong> have <strong>given me</strong>, so that they may be one just as we are one."(<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/john/17/#v43017011" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">John 17:11</a>)</p><p>"More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake.<strong> </strong> For this very reason, <strong>God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name </strong>that is above every other name, so that in <em>the name of Jesus</em> every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— and every tongue should openly acknowledge that <strong>Jesus Christ is Lord</strong> to the glory of God the Father." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/philippians/2/#v50002008" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Philippians 2:8-11</a>) The Name (Jesus) when translated means “<strong>Jehovah Is Salvation.</strong>”</p><p>"And war broke out in heaven: <strong>{</strong><a href="https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/archangel-michael/" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>Jesus Christ and his angels</strong></a><strong>}</strong> battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven." (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/12/#v66012007" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 12:7-8</a>)</p><p>That War began in 1914 and has <strong>been affecting the earth and its inhabitants ever since.</strong> Michael gives encouragement to his followers: "I am coming quickly. Keep holding fast to what you have, so that no one may take your crown.<strong> </strong>The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, <strong>and my own new name.</strong>" (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/3/#v66003011" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 3:11-12</a>) "So he has become better than the angels<strong> to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.</strong>" (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/hebrews/1/#v58001004" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Hebrews 1:4</a>)</p><p>'I, <strong>{</strong><a href="https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003035" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>Michael</strong></a><strong>}</strong> sent my angel to bear witness to you about these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David and <a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/job/38/#v18038007" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc"><strong>the bright morning star</strong></a><strong>.</strong>’ (<a href="https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/22/#v66022016" rel="nofollow noreferrer ugc">Rev 22:16</a>)</p>]]>
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